OS not using custom layout that contains symbols and characters not found in the default layout

[T.S]

Hi,

I'm new to Mac, I wanted to set my own custom keyboard layout with special characters / symbols added. I used ukelele for this, but then when I have put my layout in Keyboard Layouts folder, and I added the new layout from Keyboard Preferenace. The OS ended up using default layout under the different name of the layout. I could not able to find the symbols. Have I done something wrong?

I am using Big Sur 11.4

Thanks.

[Sorin Paliga]

Hm…

Does you new keylayout have another name? Perhaps also another ID? I mean the name set withing the app, not the Finder name, not this one is displayed.

Have you restarted the computer BEFORE using the new keylayout?

If the two aforementioned conditions are met, there is no reason not to work properly.

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[T.S]

I have tried both before. I named my layout, installed it in keyboard layouts folder, restsrted my computer. In my ukulele,  the layout shows all the keys I added, but from my keyboard preferences, the layout goes back to default. Instead, the only difference is just my layout's name.

[Sorin Paliga]

More and more interesting..

Did you save your keylayout before working on it? Anywhere on the disk, but not directly in the system, e.g. on the desktop.

How have you been working with it? Did you start from scratch, or started from an existing keylayout? The latter variant is recommended as it has all the necessary levels of commands.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ukelele-users/3832400f-fcc9-4a65-8b96-bd25563965d3n%40googlegroups.com.

[T.S]

 Yes, I have saved my key layout in the Document folder. I think I may have saved it before working, but after the work, I saved it.

I have tried both, starting from scratch and then the existing key layout.

[Sorin Paliga]

So,

- open UKELELE

- choose a starting point by activating the desired basic keylayout as active and displayed in the upper right corner

- Go the File/New from Current Input source

- click on the displayed keylayout in a small window, as attached #1, and then save the active keylayout in UKELELE, as in #2 (the example chosen is from my active set)

- make all changes you wish, modify its name in Keyboard / Set Keyboard Name and Script

- last save

- Export installer disk image

- open the image and put the file in /Library/Keyboard Layouts

- Restart the machine

- Go the Sys Prefs/Keyboard/Input Sources, click + and activate it.

Have you done all these steps as above?

On 1 Jun 2021, at 15:32, T.S <muhammadt...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ukelele-users/be483766-a10e-4712-83ba-e5d7ba45d680n%40googlegroups.com.

[Muhammad Taha Shah]

I did what you suggested, nothing worked.

Instead the layouts was added to the keyboard preferences,  but still the keys are same. Nothing added.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ukelele-users/CA5FED78-A618-40F0-B493-28CDEBFA94D2%40gmail.com.

[Gé van Gasteren]

Hi Muhammad,

Not sure what’s going on here, so maybe you can give a few more details? Like:

Which keyboard layout have you used as a starting point for your custom layout, and which characters/symbols have you added?

If you like, you can just attach screenshots of both the base layout and your version, as displayed in Ukelele.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ukelele-users/CAL-p%3DAkx80gmkWckmosz5vHzN9XLC%2BfHcgCnmqhu81M0ST1Fzw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Muhammad Taha Shah]

I used Arabic (PC) as a starting point. I only have added the characters / symbols.

The above layout is mine, while below is the default layout.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ukelele-users/CAOH1hL-pYTwpT9XXTEmUC03t0H5Y0rMwQ4xL2dQeAN73C-nRJw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Gé van Gasteren]

With special input methods, modifying keyboard layouts is not possible, or much more complicated than just editing it with Ukelele.

What I don’t know is whether Arabic script is in this category.

Tom or John, maybe?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ukelele-users/CAL-p%3DA%3DDXf0cMKWtB%3DLCugD6-p7WJN7HwK8%2B3GBJZGObDc4duQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Muhammad Taha Shah]

Is there any alternative app?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ukelele-users/CAOH1hL898k7GZ6iA4ddgY5cFgq6jA2GO3AcJphi%2BuqEM-bigKA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Gé van Gasteren]

Hi Muhammad,

Let’s see what John or Tom say, because I’m not sure if this is the case.

Are you trying to make an input method for Maldivian script?

(Just guessing from the name of your layout, which reminded me of Thaana.)

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ukelele-users/CAL-p%3DAm73z%3D59L6yKsCUt2z4XmMdGgCjGQ%2Bj9qhPTxsgs2Tr0A%40mail.gmail.com.

[Muhammad Taha Shah]

No. I am just making arabic script only.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ukelele-users/CAOH1hL9_fmb6D5A%3DbpDAcJyNa5MCcqX-nKjV0RUUdD1FE6ms_g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tom Gewecke]

On Jun 1, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Gé van Gasteren <gevang...@gmail.com> wrote:

With special input methods, modifying keyboard layouts is not possible, or much more complicated than just editing it with Ukelele.

What I don’t know is whether Arabic script is in this category.

Arabic is just like English as far as making layouts is concerned.  Special input methods are mainly Chinese, Japanese, Korean. 

[Muhammad Taha Shah]

So these are limited languages? Arabic is not supported yet?

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[Gé van Gasteren]

Thanks, Tom!

No no, Muhammad, with this information from Tom, it’s clear that Ukelele can do the job – only there’s no clue in sight what went wrong in this case.

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[Gé van Gasteren]

The next guess would be that MacOS can’t use your custom layout for some reason and therefore switches back to the built-in one.

If you could attach your layout to a message, we can try out how it behaves in different MacOS versions.

[Sorin Paliga]

Hm. Arabic is a RTL script, I have no idea whether UKELELE may handle such scripts, Arabic or Hebrew are not in the list of supported scripts in UKELELE, Korean and Japanese are. Perhaps the problem is here. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ukelele-users/CAOH1hL8SG79wejfJ2PRqnbKH%3Ds%3DhbrVDu1zBT9RiadiLdHJQ5g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tom Gewecke]

> On Jun 1, 2021, at 2:24 PM, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hm. Arabic is a RTL script, I have no idea whether UKELELE may handle such scripts, Arabic or Hebrew are not in the list of supported scripts in UKELELE, Korean and Japanese are. Perhaps the problem is here.

Ukelele has no problem with Arabic or Hebrew layouts. “Supported Scripts” normally refers to the available localizations of the app menus and dialogues.

[Sorin Paliga]

Perhaps yes. As far as I correctly recall, I also created a custom RTL keylayout for Etruscan, and worked OK with Mellel only, I have no idea whether custom RTL scripts are now supported by other word processors too.

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[Gé van Gasteren]

Sorin, Muhammad is using the Arabic keyboard layout, so he should be able to use a custom version of it in the same way.

The only difference, if I recall, is that the CapsLock method of switching between a non-Latin script’s keyboard layout and a Latin one doesn’t work for custom layouts.

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[Tom Gewecke]

I have tried making a custom layout from Arabic PC adding some of the special characters that Muhammad wants, like U+fdfb, but it does not work. The additions show up fine in Ukelele, but after being installed, what I see in Keyboard Viewer and when typing is unchanged from the original.

I’m mystified.

[Gé van Gasteren]

Muhammad, I’m sure you’re thinking: "That’s what I’ve been saying all the time!"

But let me tell you: we just got to a different level of the game.

Now it’s clear that there’s really something fishy going on here, not "some user bumbling because they didn’t read the manual"

And this is where it gets interesting :-)

On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 9:22 PM Tom Gewecke <thge...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have tried making a custom layout from Arabic PC adding some of the special characters that Muhammad wants, like U+fdfb, but it does not work.  The additions show up fine in Ukelele, but after being installed, what I see in Keyboard Viewer and when typing is unchanged from the original.

I’m mystified.

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[Gé van Gasteren]

On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 9:22 PM Tom Gewecke <thge...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have tried making a custom layout from Arabic PC adding some of the special characters that Muhammad wants, like U+fdfb, but it does not work.  The additions show up fine in Ukelele, but after being installed, what I see in Keyboard Viewer and when typing is unchanged from the original.

I’m mystified.

Tom, could it be that the MacOS version makes a difference? Or that there’s something in the XML code that MacOS can’t swallow?

This guy seems to have had no problem in 2014:

https://digitalorientalist.com/2014/04/10/the-digital-orientalists-keyboard-layouts-windows-and-mac/

 

[Gé van Gasteren]

All right, I followed Tom’s example and modified the standard Arabic layout to include U+fdfb on Shift-F.

Here’s the result: ﷻ

Which means that the customized layout works normally in MacOS 10.11 but not in Big Sur.

Now I guess we need John to tell us if Apple has plans to fix this anytime soon.

[Tom Gewecke]

More crazy stuff. I am on Catalina actually.

I made a custom layout from the US keyboard with 7 arabic presentation forms.

TextEdit will not recognize the keyboard, stays on US.

Pages recognizes the keyboard, but will only display 2 of the seven forms.

LibreOffice recognizes the keyboard and displays everything correctly.

[Tom Gewecke]

[Gé van Gasteren]

Hi Muhammad,

If you’re following the conversation, we just got something for you to try:

Install LibreOffice (if you haven’t done so before) and test your custom keyboard layout in a Writer document.

Let us know if it works … especially, if you can type the new characters/presentation forms you added.

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[Muhammad Taha Shah]

I have tested it on LibreOffice. It's still the same issue.

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[John Brownie]

Hi all,

Just to let you know that I'm looking at this while on holiday, so I
won't be able to look at things seriously until after 14 June.

John (currently enjoying the midnight sun in Lapland)
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John Brownie
Mussau-Emira language, New Ireland Province, Papua New Guinea
Kouvola, Finland