OS Ventura troubleshooting - having only a single custom layout

[George]

Due to an unfortunate sequence of events my computer was updated to Mac OS Ventura 13.0 after an update.
I tried to re-install my keyboard layouts, but I cannot mimic the pre-update behaviour.

I used to have two custom keyboard layouts as the only two layouts in the system.
One was called ABC + Latinica, which was an extension of the ABC by adding some new properties, and the second one Serbian for the Serbian language. They worked great.

After the update, I copied the two keyboard bundles and installed them, but now I have a problem -  I cannot remove a default keyboard layout (For example ABC or ABC - Extended). So now I always need to have a keyboard layout that I do not wish to use. This makes the thing unnecessarily complicated, and makes changing the keyboard a mess because the order between keyboard updates after every change.

Is there a way to remove the default keyboard layout?

The new layout is set as English - Latin.

I don't remember how I managed to do this before.

I have attached the com.apple.HIToolbox.plist files of the computer where the layouts work as intended and there are only two custom layouts and no default layouts.

Adjusting the HIToolbox files on the updated mac only created problems so I reverted the edits.

[Sorin Paliga]

It is difficult to reproduce what you are writing about. I have just upgraded to Ventura and all the custom keylayouts, most of them active, have been transferred to the new system without any problem. 

How did you install them? And why to put them back if you installed Ventura over the previous system? Please explain.

Sent from my iPad

On 29 Oct 2022, at 20:38, George <mc352hom...@gmail.com> wrote:

Due to an unfortunate sequence of events my computer was updated to Mac OS Ventura 13.0 after an update.

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<old OS 10.3.jpg>

[George]

The system was wiped, which was intentional, but it was, unfortunately, upgraded to Ventura in the process.

This is why I had to re-install everything from scratch, layouts included.

The last time I installed them I managed to remove the default keyboard layout, and use a custom one instead.

Now, I cannot. It might be due to Ventura, maybe there are other reasons for this behaviour. 

I copied my old layouts which are saved in an external drive, however when I install them, I cannot remove the default layout, even though I don't need it.

To the best of my understanding Mac requires at least one latin layout, but even though the custom layout that I defined and installed is English - Latin, I still cannot install it as the ONLY layout.

This is the essence of the problem, I tried to simplify it as much as I can. I imagined it was due to Ventura, since that sounds like the most reasonable explanation.

[John Brownie]

What version of macOS was the old one? This may be related to the way that the OS is locked down for security reasons.

John 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ukelele-users/c4e82375-c181-4216-b08c-ae813fd08c86n%40googlegroups.com.

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John Brownie, john_b...@sil.org

Mussau-Emira language, New Ireland Province, Papua New Guinea

Kouvola, Finland

[George]

Mac OS 12.6, which I believe to have been the last previous OS before 13.0

.

[Sorin Paliga]

There should be no problem to put back your custom keylayouts in the new system. It is recommended to put them under /Library/Keyboard Layouts not ~/Library/Keyboard Layouts, i.e. not at the user level, but for all users.

If the custom keylayouts are there, you should be able to use them. I do not understand very well your point regarding the default keylayout. Would you like it to be your custom one, including the moment you are logging in? 

Sent from my iPad

On 29 Oct 2022, at 21:56, George <mc352hom...@gmail.com> wrote:

Mac OS 12.6, which I believe to have been the last previous OS before 13.0

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ukelele-users/bf0d04e2-daad-4c3c-ba82-3f48d1e1b6bfn%40googlegroups.com.

[George]

My keyboard layouts are located in /Library/Keyboard Layouts/, i.e. at a global level.

The layouts themselves work as intended. In total I have two layouts that I want to use.

However, after installing them, I have a total of 3 layouts on my

    - System preinstalled (ABC)

    - Custom layout 1

    - Custom layout 2

I do not need the first layout. I want to remove it, and I want only to use the two custom layouts.

Such were my previous settings before I wiped the system on my laptop and updated to Ventura.

This is the way my layouts are currently handled on my desktop which is still on 12.6 and not updated to 13.0.

However, now, after a fresh install of 13.0 on my laptop, I cannot remove the system (ABC) layout.

What you wrote is essentially another way to put it - I would like for my custom layout to be the default layout, including the moment I log in. This is how it used to be.

[Sorin Paliga]

I see. Generally macOS likes at least one system keylayout, usually one included in the system. Nevertheless, if my experience is correct, if the keylayout is detected as a Latin-based keylayout, it may be used as a default keylayout. Anyway, upon logging in, there is a long list of alternative keylayouts which the user may choose (upper right corner), including custom keylayouts. 

You cannot remove (when clicking on the minus symbol) ABC because the system does not detect another system-blessed keylayout. It has been the same over the last generations of macOS, so I cannot figure out how it was with your previous system, and now it is not any more.

Sent from my iPad

On 29 Oct 2022, at 22:38, George <mc352hom...@gmail.com> wrote:

My keyboard layouts are located in /Library/Keyboard Layouts/, i.e. at a global level.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ukelele-users/55c93558-fe7d-49e2-bcb8-4e9e86085629n%40googlegroups.com.