Installed layouts won't show up in preferences

[Simon Diff]

Currently running Ukulele 3.0b1 on Yosemite 10.10.14.

I've tried: installing it as a bundle, as .keyboardlayout file, putting it manually in Macintosh HD/Library/Keyboard Layouts or User/Library/Keyboard Layouts, installing through Ukelele/File/Install, logging in and out, restarting the computer, turning it off and on again.

The result is always the same: none of the keyboard layouts will show up in Preferences.

Please help it's driving me mad.

[Simon Diff]

Also, I'll attach the files in case I messed up something.

[Sorin Paliga]

I guess you go to a wrong place, what/which Preferences? You must go to System Preferences/Keyboard/Input Sources/Others/New Input Source [your name]. Is THIS sequence you followed?

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[Simon Diff]

Yes, of course.

On 29 Jul 2015, at 14:04, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:

I guess you go to a wrong place, what/which Preferences? You must go to System Preferences/Keyboard/Input Sources/Others/New Input Source [your name]. Is THIS sequence you followed?

<Screen Shot 2015-07-29 at 16.02.10.png>

On 29 Jul 2015, at 16:00, Simon Diff <simon...@gmail.com> wrote:

Currently running Ukulele 3.0b1 on Yosemite 10.10.14.

I've tried: installing it as a bundle, as .keyboardlayout file, putting it manually in Macintosh HD/Library/Keyboard Layouts or User/Library/Keyboard Layouts, installing through Ukelele/File/Install, logging in and out, restarting the computer, turning it off and on again.

The result is always the same: none of the keyboard layouts will show up in Preferences.

Please help it's driving me mad.

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[Sorin Paliga]

It seems a bug in this beta version. If you open it with the previous version, the last stable one, you will see a message that some codes are missing, press OK, save it, and install. 

It will work.

Report this to John. It is a bug in the current beta 3.x version of UKELELE.

On 29 Jul 2015, at 16:09, Simon Diff <simon...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, of course.

<Screen Shot 2015-07-29 at 14.06.56.png>

[John Brownie]

On Wed Jul 29 2015 23:24:45 GMT+1000 (PGT) Sorin Paliga wrote:
> It seems a bug in this beta version. If you open it with the previous
> version, the last stable one, you will see a message that some codes
> are missing, press OK, save it, and install.
> It will work.
> Report this to John. It is a bug in the current beta 3.x version of
> UKELELE.
>

OK, got it. I'll be looking into it today. Some other bugs have been
reported, the worst of which makes Ukelele crash on 10.8, so I have
several things to work on before I put out a second beta.

John
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John Brownie, john_b...@sil.org or j.br...@sil.org.pg
Summer Institute of Linguistics | Mussau-Emira language, Mussau Is.
Ukarumpa, Eastern Highlands Province | New Ireland Province
Papua New Guinea | Papua New Guinea

[Arquitecto Changmarín]

The same thing is happening to me - Ukelele 3.0b2 on Yosemite 10.10.5 -.  As if it wasn't enough, the Unicode option (U+) under Others was removed and every attempt to select it (Others) is disrupted by an error message.  Now I don't know how to retreive the Unicode Option, reinstall?

My Mini Mac Is brand new, turning green!

[Sorin Paliga]

You must have a problem with the system. Put the keyboard layout here so we may test it. Also write in full the error message. Describe the steps, one after another, showing what you are doing.

[Arquitecto Changmarín]

Began creating the keyboard layout with "File>New From Current Input Source", selected the one shown in the list, replaced the "comma" output in the numpad with "point".  "Save" command isn't available with Ukelele 3.0b2 therefore tried "File>Install>" (all and current) as a bundle (icon included); restarted system, searched for my new layout in Keyboard Preferences, nothing.  Curiosity drove me to inspect the Keyboard Layouts folder in order to make sure the file was in the right location, there it was.  Since the bundle approach wasn't succesfull decided to use the single file with .keylayout extension, nothing found in preferences once more.  Started guessing,  took a chance with Others's Unicode and that's it, can't even remove Others because there isn't any Preferred Language associated with it.

Regards. 

[Sorin Paliga]

Since the .keylayout file is there, but you cannot see it sys prefs, there is something wrong/corrupt with the file.

<Screen Shot 2015-08-29 at 07.42.07.png><Problem Report for System Preferences (ukelele).txt><(ch)Spanish - ISO.keylayout><(Ch)Spanish - ISO.bundle.zip>

[John Brownie]

On 30/08/2015 5:00, Arquitecto Changmarín wrote:

Began creating the keyboard layout with "File>New From Current Input Source", selected the one shown in the list, replaced the "comma" output in the numpad with "point".  "Save" command isn't available with Ukelele 3.0b2 therefore tried "File>Install>" (all and current) as a bundle (icon included); restarted system, searched for my new layout in Keyboard Preferences, nothing.  Curiosity drove me to inspect the Keyboard Layouts folder in order to make sure the file was in the right location, there it was.  Since the bundle approach wasn't succesfull decided to use the single file with .keylayout extension, nothing found in preferences once more.  Started guessing,  took a chance with Others's Unicode and that's it, can't even remove Others because there isn't any Preferred Language associated with it.

The guessing is the likely problem, which led you to do something that caused System Preferences to crash.

Going back to the beginning, the Save command isn't available in the keyboard view because you need to save the bundle that it's part of. I'll see if I can make this less of a puzzle. When you choose "New From Current Input Source", Ukelele creates a bundle with one keyboard layout in it, created from the current input source, along with the icon (if possible) and intended language (if any).

An important point to note is that the name of the new keyboard layout is the same as the current input source. If you don't change it, you won't be able to find it in the list, because it will be hidden by the original. I see that you have changed the name, so that's not your problem.

After a bit of digging, it appears that the problem is the icon. As far as I can tell, it's not actually a proper Apple icns file, but rather a renamed PNG file. System Preferences assumes it's a valid icns file and tries to open it as one, which causes the crash. You need to make a real icns file. An application like Image2icon can do this (http://www.img2icnsapp.com/).

[Geke]

Great sleuthing, John!

I’ve been thinking that the section in the Help called "Problems using a keyboard layout" could/should be expanded to a real troubleshooting manual.

My suggestion for one of the main injunctions would be: "Note down every step you take while experimenting, so that when you ask help or report an error on the forum, your information is logical and complete."

[Arquitecto Changmarín .]

Understood.  Will give it a try.

Thanks.

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[Arquitecto Changmarín]

Triumph!!!

First thing was to use the Image2Icon software in order to create the icon in the proper format, then reviewed the "Save Availability" issue related to the "keyboard view", and after taking Cattus advice "NEVER touch the system folder, really NEVER, unless you are a developer" I moved the Keyboard bundle from the "System Library" to the "User Library".  Problem solved, now "dot" is available in the numpad instead of a "comma" and I can work comfortably.

Nevertheless, Unicode Hex U+ option is still MIA and "Keyboard Prefs" keeps on crashing when "Others" is selected. 

Thanks all for your help!

[Geke]

OK, great!

What I wanted to ask you all the time, but didn't, in order not to cause more confusion:
Why do you want to put a dot/period on the numberpad instead of a comma by using a keyboard layout?!

I thought the best way to do that is by changing the locality preferences – you know, like today's date format 9/3/2015 or 3/9/2015, some countries use a decimal point, others a decimal comma.
So changing to a convenient country would do the trick, no?
See a screenshot from the System Preferences "Language and Text" in Snow Leopard
(I can't help with the crashing; I don't think there's this "Others" in my OS version.)

And what in the world is "MIA"?

Op woensdag 2 september 2015 18:01:32 UTC+2 schreef Arquitecto Changmarín:

[John Brownie]

On 3/09/2015 2:01, Arquitecto Changmarín wrote:

Nevertheless, Unicode Hex U+ option is still MIA and "Keyboard Prefs" keeps on crashing when "Others" is selected. 

You probably have the bad keyboard layout still in the Keyboard Layouts folder. Remove it, and the crashing should go away. I would hope that the Unicode Hex Input would turn up again.

[Arquitecto Changmarín .]

Oooooook!!!  Here I go:

First, I just made the crossover from PC to Mac about two weeks ago at the office and it's been a while since the last I had to use Mac OS at work (OS7 running on a Mac IIci) so there was a little bit of confusion for me.

That said, I tried to change locality preferences but didn't help. I live in a Spanish spoken country and the only option found is Spanish from Spain and ISO, give me a break, in Europe the decimal separator is a comma.  Windows (sorry for using de W word) gives you a language option for "International Spanish" that overrides de comma. The only way to get over it was to change language, lets say US english, but had to struggle finding blindly the right keys e.g. parenthesis, colons, semicolons, Ññ, áéíóú <>¡!"¿?  etc, etc, etc......

One of the application that I run for building modelling (BIM) is Graphisoft's Archicad.  This software is build upon GLD (Basic) and commas aren't allowed for decimal separators. In my opinion, it is very irritating having to use the dot in the letters side, I rather use the numpad since I'm working with numbers and measurements all the time, there comes the comma conflict.

I haven't tried with Mexico Spanish, it was buried at the bottom of the list ant didn't found it until now. if it works I'll let you now.  However, I stay with Ukelele from now on.

By the way, MIA stands for "Missing in Action".

Best regards. 

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[Geke]

Thanks for the explanation of your situation.
I tried my own suggestion: setting a decimal point instead of decimal comma in the number format in the System Preferences, but contrary to my expectation, this didn’t change the keyboard layout. Maybe this setting only controls how the OS evaluates numbers, and thus allows spreadsheet programs to adapt to your needs?

Anyway, it seems you have chosen the right thing! At least I don’t see another way in my OS 10.6.8 than customizing the keyboard layout you prefer.

Still, it’s strange that there should be no keyboard layout (or other solution) for this, as indeed Mexico uses both Spanish and the decimal point. I checked (see picture from Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark)

[Arquitecto Changmarín .]

You're welcome!

[Sorin Paliga]

I do not know exactly what you plan to do, but the system allows to set dot and comma and other options for anything you wish. Just click on Advanced features.

On 03 Sep 2015, at 17:48, Arquitecto Changmarín . <chang...@gmail.com> wrote:

Oooooook!!!  Here I go:

First, I just made the crossover from PC to Mac about two weeks ago at the office and it's been a while since the last I had to use Mac OS at work (OS7 running on a Mac IIci) so there was a little bit of confusion for me.

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[Arquitecto Changmarín .]

I think that's what John was referring to,  some Mac Power Users here did try that but wasn't of any help.  As a matter of fact the my current settings are period for Decimal and comma for Grouping, double checked getting back to "Spanish - ISO" Keyboard and numpad returns a comma.  US computer Region, List sort order Universal, no luck.  The only way to solve the mystery so far has been Ukelele.  

[Geke]

Please try to find Mexico, as you described in an earlier post.

I have Snow Leopard and don’t have that option, but I’m betting on it that you have it available.

[Arquitecto Changmarín]

There you have Geke, comma in mexican ;)

[Arquitecto Changmarín]

Suddenly I'm experiencing some kind of instability. After hitting the key the period isn't displayed, if the system is restarted everything comes to normal (for a while).  Can it be due to the fact that the version I'm using is a Beta one?

[Geke]

I was referring to this sentence you wrote earlier:

"I haven't tried with Mexico Spanish, it was buried at the bottom of the list ant didn't found it until now. if it works I'll let you now. "

Which list was that? Something to do with the keyboard layout?

If it was with the locality formats in System Preferences, I think we can forget about that. Here’s a sentence I found in an (old) forum post:
"Thanks for the link, that help me a lot, because now when I'm in excel or a calculator I hit the point key on the numeric part of my keyboard and I get a point, but when I'm in word, safari or entourage and I hit the point key on the numeric part of my keyboard I get a comma instead a point."

In other words: it seems some applications change their behavior on the basis of your locality settings, some don’t and require changing to a different keyboard layout.

Op vrijdag 4 september 2015 00:22:31 UTC+2 schreef Arquitecto Changmarín:

[Arquitecto Changmarín .]

Indeed, it was the locality formats in Sys Prefs.  Some person from IT configured the computer, to him everything was fine and it was to a certain point.  Then I did my own sleuthing and got aware that more specific regionalisms could be added to any given language (see image).

I figured out the same ("some apps change behaviour on the basis of your locality settings, some don't") when stated before that GDL (Geometric Description Language) won't accept comma as a decimal separator but that's only a supposition, the fact is that it has to be a period.

Perhaps this conversation will be helpful for others.

[Geke]

OK, that’s a pity.

Then let’s close this – by now very confusing – thread with the conclusion that Apple OS X needs a keyboard layout for Spanish with a decimal point on the numerical pad – or any other setting to accommodate such use.

[Arquitecto Changmarín .]

I agree.  Thank you all, keep on Ukeleling.

2015-09-04 10:37 GMT-05:00 Geke <gevang...@gmail.com>:

OK, that’s a pity.

Then let’s close this – by now very confusing – thread with the conclusion that Apple OS X needs a keyboard layout for Spanish with a decimal point on the numerical pad – or any other setting to accommodate such use.

[Arquitecto Changmarín]

Hi,

I'm glad to notify that such instability is non existing.  Just found out comma needed to be reconfigured with "Caps Lock" active as well and also with "Shift" in order to use the period instead.  Before reconfig numeric keypad was returning a comma with "Caps Lock" active and was loosing my faith.

If the same situation persists with Ctrl and Alt I'll let you know.

Don't forget to Restart the system in order to apply changes made to your bundle.

My keyboard is working sooooo smooooothly now...........................................  .... ..... period ........  period ......!!!!!!!   lol