macOS keylayout import into iOS

[Sorin Paliga]

Hi to all

Perhaps this topic was once approached, but I was not interested in it. Now I am: two days ago I purchased my first iPad (2017), together with a Logitech keyboard designed for iPads. I am still awkward with iOS, but—by and large—if the physical keyboard is used, keylayouts behave very much like in macOS, including the dead keys and other chars available via Option key. 

I am now digging into the issue of creating my keylayouts. Keyman seems to be a solution, nevertheless this means I have to begin again with customizing the numerous keylayouts I have created over years. 

Q: is there a way to import the existing keylayouts created with UKELELE into iOS? Or perhaps, John, to create a version of UKELELE for iOS? Is this possible? 

iOS seems like a prehistoric macOS, without a proper Finder and with a lot of limitations, due to the obvious fact that it was initially planned for the 3.5–4 in displays of the then iPhones and iPods. The last version of iOS seems mature, though, it seems I may write linguistic texts in Pages for iOS, it behaves OK and combined diacritical marks written in macOS are correctly displayed in Pages for iOS.

My text is already too long, thanks for your patience. 

[Tom Gewecke]

> On Aug 2, 2018, at 4:39 AM, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Q: is there a way to import the existing keylayouts created with UKELELE into iOS?

No. You have to create a keyboard app or use Keyman developer. Unfortunately the latter only runs on Windows as far as I know. Also I don’t think Apple has provided a way for 3rd parties to create hardware keyboard layouts, in case you wanted one.

[Sorin Paliga]

Tom

Keyman has now a macOS and even an iOS version. I am not very familiar with it, but it seems clear I have to start from the scratch, there is no way to import/parse the existing keylayouts for macOS and export them to iOS or to import them in iOS via an app or script. As creating a complex keylayout takes a lot of time, especially the complex ones, it would be really creazy to begin again. So the only logical solution is to find a way out to export/import/parse them somehow. Initially, iOS was a quite simplistic OS, now it seems complex enough so it would worth the effort to do this.
For the time being, the solution seems to write the basic text, and then add the linguistic part later in macOS.

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[Gé van Gasteren]

Sorin, I’m not sure if you’ll like typing on an iPad keyboard…

But anyway—what about this approach:

On the iPad, use an encoding to indicate accented letters, like e.g. in French one could write e1 e2 e3 for é è ê.

After transferring the text, do a series of global search&replaces (manually or through a script).

On 2 August 2018 at 11:56, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:

Tom

Keyman has now a macOS and even an iOS version. I am not very familiar with it, but it seems clear I have to start from the scratch, there is no way to import/parse the existing keylayouts for macOS and export them to iOS or to import them in iOS via an app or script. As creating a complex keylayout takes a lot of time, especially the complex ones, it would be really creazy to begin again. So the only logical solution is to find a way out to export/import/parse them somehow. Initially, iOS was a quite simplistic OS, now it seems complex enough so it would worth the effort to do this.
For the time being, the solution seems to write the basic text, and then add the linguistic part later in macOS.

> On 2 Aug 2018, at 12:38, Tom Gewecke <thge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On Aug 2, 2018, at 4:39 AM, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Q: is there a way to import the existing keylayouts created with UKELELE into iOS?
>
> No.  You have to create a keyboard app or use Keyman developer.  Unfortunately the latter only runs on Windows as far as I know.  Also I don’t think Apple has provided a way for 3rd parties to create hardware keyboard layouts, in case you wanted one.
>
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[Sorin Paliga]

Yes, yes, this would be an interim solution… 

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[Tom Gewecke]

> On Aug 2, 2018, at 5:56 AM, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Keyman has now a macOS and even an iOS version.

Yes, and there are many already created keyboards for it that you can use. BUT you cannot yourself make a keyboard for Keyman without using the Keyman Developer app, which only runs on Windows.

[Tom Gewecke]

> On Aug 2, 2018, at 5:56 AM, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> For the time being, the solution seems to write the basic text, and then add the linguistic part later in macOS.

I you use a hardware keyboard, you can use any of the standard layouts provided by Apple, for example ABC Extended, to type linguistic stuff on an ipad. That might be easier than some kind of later conversion operation.

[Sorin Paliga]

I will try all the options available, but I would need smth like UKELELE for iOS. 😀

[Gé van Gasteren]

Sorin, as I understand it, the iOS structure doesn't have "loose" and "inert" parts that determine the keyboard layout (as MacOS has).

The way to modify the keyboard layout seems to be to have an app running (like Keyman) and changing its behavior.

So you'd need to create an app that does several things:

–intercept keystrokes and change them according to a keyboard layout definition inside the app

–let you modify its internal keyboard layout definition(s)

–let you manage (New, Delete, Make Current) its list of such definitions.

I hear it's easy to create apps, so you may find programmers online that can do that for a small fee…

On 2 August 2018 at 12:37, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:

I will try all the options available, but I would need smth like UKELELE for iOS. 😀

> On 2 Aug 2018, at 13:29, Tom Gewecke <thge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On Aug 2, 2018, at 5:56 AM, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> For the time being, the solution seems to write the basic text, and then add the linguistic part later in macOS.
>
> I you use a hardware keyboard, you can use any of the standard layouts provided by Apple, for example ABC Extended, to type linguistic stuff on an ipad.  That might be easier than some kind of later conversion operation.
>
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[Tom Gewecke]

On Aug 2, 2018, at 9:53 AM, Gé van Gasteren <gevang...@gmail.com> wrote:

I hear it's easy to create apps, so you may find programmers online that can do that for a small fee…

In particular, if you contact the Keyman folks, they may know someone who could do a custom keyman layout according to your instructions.

But I think that would still only be a screen keyboard, not usable with a hardware keyboard.

[Gé van Gasteren]

Oops. So, when a hardware keyboard is connected, iOS "takes back control" ?

And, even with Keyman Developer, one would only be able to create custom keyboard layouts to be used for onscreen typing?

If so, I don’t think that’s an option for Sorin’s use.

--

[Tom Gewecke]

On Aug 2, 2018, at 10:10 AM, Gé van Gasteren <gevang...@gmail.com> wrote:

Oops. So, when a hardware keyboard is connected, iOS "takes back control” ?

Yes, so far I have never seen Keyman or any other iOS app offering custom hardware layouts.

[Sorin Paliga]

Tom and Gé

Many thanks. The problem is under investigation. There are some interim solutions. So far, the best and easiest to use seem this one:

http://unicode.lacanoid.net

I paid some € 5 for, but I do not regret. It is useful anyway. I am not very familiar with iOS, my daughter is, mainly for graphics (with ProCreate). I am trying to learn both iOS and how to manage my linguistic needs. After 2 days, it seems I am on a good way. iOS was planned for small screens many years ago and, from unclear reasons, it has remained an OS for small screens rather than for larger screens like iPads. The main problem is with the Finder, which lacks there (iOS 11 has a kind of a primitive Finder) and with managing otherwise simple tasks, like adding a custom keylayout, which has become so simple in macOS (since 10.2, in fact). 

If you come across other apps or else, please let me know.

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[Tom Gewecke]

On Aug 2, 2018, at 10:31 AM, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:

There are some interim solutions. So far, the best and easiest to use seem this one:

http://unicode.lacanoid.net

Yes, that is the best app for this kind of thing as far as I know, 

(I think iOS is not so much planned for small screens and it is deliberately designed to be “secure” and totally under Apple control.  Increases in the ability of users to customize anything have come only very slowly over the years).

[Sorin Paliga]

So I’ve dug deep from the very beginning! Well, this seems reasonable for the time being. 

[Gé van Gasteren]

Sorin, there should be lots of "Finder replacements" for iOS. Here’s at least a popular file manager:

https://readdle.com/documents

And, coming back to ABC Extended: It does include lots of combining diacritical marks that can be typed with Shift-Option after the base letter, so with some getting used to, it may be quite useful after all. For the time being…

On 2 August 2018 at 16:44, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:

So I’ve dug deep from the very beginning! Well, this seems reasonable for the time being. 

On 2 Aug 2018, at 17:40, Tom Gewecke <thge...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 2, 2018, at 10:31 AM, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:

There are some interim solutions. So far, the best and easiest to use seem this one:

http://unicode.lacanoid.net

Yes, that is the best app for this kind of thing as far as I know, 

(I think iOS is not so much planned for small screens and it is deliberately designed to be “secure” and totally under Apple control.  Increases in the ability of users to customize anything have come only very slowly over the years).

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[Sorin Paliga]

On 2 Aug 2018, at 18:21, Gé van Gasteren <gevang...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorin, there should be lots of "Finder replacements" for iOS. Here’s at least a popular file manager:

https://readdle.com/documents

Downloaded, thanks.

And, coming back to ABC Extended:

This is in macOS, not in iOS, right? Or is there smth I’m missing?

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[Tom Gewecke]

On Aug 2, 2018, at 12:14 PM, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:

And, coming back to ABC Extended:

This is in macOS, not in iOS, right? Or is there smth I’m missing?

You can use hardware keyboards with iOS devices, and they use the standard MacOS layouts provided by Apple with iOS, including ABC Extended.

[Andrew Cunningham]

You could write the kmn file in a text editor, i'd recommend VS Code. And using key keyman's command line compiler with wine, compile from command line in Mac OS. That approach is supposed to work on Mac OS and Linux.

The layouts I develop are too co,plex for a visual layout editor so I tend to develop directly in source file.

Andrew

[Andrew Cunningham]

You could do a daisy chain conversion ... convert key layout to klc, then build klc , install and import into keyman. 

Keyman roadmap includes fully LDML keyboard support for the version underdevelopment by CLDR folks. It is supposed to include tools for converting to and from different formats.

I have been thinking of writing something for myself in python in the meantime but haven't got around to it yet.

[Sorin Paliga]

It wouls be great to have such a compiler one good day. I am basically a linguist dealing with etymology and historical linguistics, so am not so familiar with such issues, but would be glad to learn simple, intuitive things which would allow me to move faster between macOS and iOS. I have not been using Windows for some time now...

[Geke]

Sorin, Andrew,

From Tom I’ve understood that Keyman (and any other app) can only influence the onscreen keyboard layout and is overruled by iOS as soon as a physical, external keyboard is connected.

Then a bunch of other, more MacOS-like keyboard layouts becomes available, including ABC Extended.

As I don’t have an external keyboard, I can’t try this out, but I suggest Sorin checks out what happens when he plugs it in – while the thread/iron is hot and you can still ask Tom follow-up questions.

Then I suggest we round off this off-topic topic :)

It wouls be great to have such a compiler one good day. I am basically a linguist dealing with etymology and historical linguistics, so am not so familiar with such issues, but would be glad to learn simple, intuitive things which would allow me to move faster between macOS and iOS. I have not been using Windows for some time now...

[Sorin Paliga]

Gé

There is no additional keylayout when connecting the physical keyboard, therefore there is no ABC Extended or not. I do not understand what Tom wrote regarding the ABC Extended. 

The only good thing which is obvious when connecting an external keyboard is that the OS behaves very much like macOS, including the Option, Control and Command keys, also Fn + upper keys, which allows settings like keylayout selection, sound etc. 

[Tom Gewecke]

> On Aug 3, 2018, at 8:08 AM, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> There is no additional keylayout when connecting the physical keyboard, therefore there is no ABC Extended or not. I do not understand what Tom wrote regarding the ABC Extended.

After you connect a hardware keyboard, you will find a new item in settings > general > keyboard, called Hardware Keyboards. For each language on the left, you should find a drop down menu on the right, from which you can choose a variety of standard macos hardware keyboard layouts.

Do you not see this?

[Tom Gewecke]

> On Aug 3, 2018, at 8:08 AM, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There is no additional keylayout when connecting the physical keyboard, therefore there is no ABC Extended or not.

PS For a list of the hardware keyboard layouts available for each language, see this page:

https://thgewecke.github.io/mlingmac/ios11kbs.html

[Sorin Paliga]

>
> After you connect a hardware keyboard, you will find a new item in settings > general > keyboard, called Hardware Keyboards. For each language on the left, you should find a drop down menu on the right, from which you can choose a variety of standard macos hardware keyboard layouts.
>
> Do you not see this?

I did not see anything like this yesterday evening, perhaps this occurs with an Apple keyboard only, mine is Logitech, but I will check again later today, of course. Thanks again.

[Sorin Paliga]

I can see your list, it remains to see it in the system as well. 😀

[Sorin Paliga]

Yes, the key layouts have shown up, geee... Thanks a lot

--

Sorin Paliga, Ph.D.
Univ. din București / Univ. of Bucharest
Catedra de Limbi Slave / Dept. of Slavic Languages
București / Bucharest, România

[Sorin Paliga]

I have become more and more familiar with iOS, also with the changes when attaching an external physical keyboard. The story and comments would be longer. Briefly: the positive part of it is that Apple is considering the issue as a part of the pro features in iOS, which continues to be quite far from a pro OS. From the point of keylayouts, it is approximately at the level of macOS X 10.0.x through 10.1.x, when one could write in various languages, but not to add custom keylayouts, this was solved in 10.2.

The so-called ABC-Extended is the new label of U.S. Extended once created by Michael Everson and seemingly very little changed ever since (around the year 2000). My keylayouts, without any false modesty, are a lot better, coherent and mnemotechnical, this is why I would like to import/parse them to iOS, but this seems impossible for the time being. 

There are other details which should be talked about, e.g. the keyboard on display (KoD) remains the same if the tablet is in portrait or landscape position, which is a lot below Android 4.x.x, where keeping the tablet in landscape mode turns the KoD from a simple, poor one into a larger one, with some additional keys on the right side, mainly, exactly the chars mandatory for languages which use diacritical marks. 

But, all in all, if attaching an external physical keyboard, iOS becomes usable for philological and linguistic use, even if with many limitations, very much like macOS some 15–17 years ago. But, well, a lot better than 2 or 3 years ago. Apple is on the good way, and we together with them. 

An iOS version of UKELELE would be great, especially if able to import the existing .keylayout files, and export them as iOS keylayout files, and to be installed and used in iOS. This would be great and indeed a pro feature for writing sophisticated texts in iOS. Otherwise, yes, Pages beautifully displays texts with combined diacritical marks written in macOS, I have no idea whether I could write them in iOS directly, perhaps via repeated CMD”s, a particularly cumbersome action.

I think we can stop here, for the time being. Many thanks for all the suggestions, I am already using some apps suggested here.

[Tom Gewecke]

> On Aug 6, 2018, at 5:39 PM, Sorin Paliga <sorin....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Pages beautifully displays texts with combined diacritical marks written in macOS, I have no idea whether I could write them in iOS directly

Surely you can test that using ABC Extended with a hardware keyboard. It can make a large number of combined diacritics by typing shift-option shortcuts after the base letter.

http://sites.psu.edu/symbolcodes/mac/codemacext/#combining