Sonoma 14.4.1—where have the files gone?

[Ross Bennett]

Hello!

I'm coming back to Ukelele after having been away for a while. This past couple of weeks I've been working on extending the ABC - Extended keyboard to add characters commonly used in APA 7 and various academic and peer-reviewed journals. But that's just context.

I've had no trouble with creating the keyboard bundles, but weird stuff is happening whenever I try to install a keyboard layout.  I've tried using the Organizer to install keyboards but—except for once instance—they simply vanish once I reboot my machine.  I've been installing them "just for me" which I understand has traditionally moved the bundles into "~/Library/Keyboard Layouts" but when I look, that directory is completely empty.

At one point—not sure when—a keyboard layout called "ABC - Extended copy" appeared in my System Settings, Keyboard,  Input Methods list under the English language. But I can't find that file anywhere. It's not in the "Keyboard Layouts" directory under my own login. It's also not anywhere else I can find in the system, whether under my own login or the system directories.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!

Ross

[Sorin Paliga]

On 4 Apr 2024, at 18:19, Ross Bennett <theross...@gmail.com> wrote:

At one point—not sure when—a keyboard layout called "ABC - Extended copy" appeared in my System Settings, Keyboard,  Input Methods list under the English language. But I can't find that file anywhere. It's not in the "Keyboard Layouts" directory under my own login. It's also not anywhere else I can find in the system, whether under my own login or the system directories.

This means you mishandled its installation. What does ‘at one point’ mean? If you processed ABC-Extended, and ‘at one point’ was displayed in the sys settings, you must have saved it inappropriately or moved it by error. You must look for it in the three possible locations labelled ‘Keyboard Layouts’, one is always visible, the other two are usually hidden at the user level or at the system level.

[Ross Bennett]

Thank you for your reply!

On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 11:13:10 AM UTC-5 Sorin Paliga wrote:

This means you mishandled its installation. What does ‘at one point’ mean? If you processed ABC-Extended, and ‘at one point’ was displayed in the sys settings, you must have saved it inappropriately or moved it by error. You must look for it in the three possible locations labelled ‘Keyboard Layouts’, one is always visible, the other two are usually hidden at the user level or at the system level.

Well, I say "at one point" because whenever I've tried to use the Organizer to install keyboard layouts, I drag the file from its editing location into either of the panes and Ukelele crashes and disappears. I get the Apple crash dialog.  When I re-open Ukelele and re-open the Organizer, there's no indication in any pane that there was ever a file. Nothing in my personal "~/Library/Keyboard Layouts" even if that's what I've tried to install to with the Organizer.  And apparently no matter when I might have actually installed the keyboard bundle, it will only be found and added to the "Input Methods" options when it's loaded at boot or login time.

Thanks for the clue that there are three locations to look for. I only knew of two locations, and I've had no luck there.  I'll have a closer look at things.

Ross

 

[Sorin Paliga]

On 4 Apr 2024, at 19:22, Ross Bennett <theross...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the clue that there are three locations to look for. I only knew of two locations, and I've had no luck there.  I'll have a closer look at things.

Yes, two are usual, the 3rd is at the sys level and should be touched, but it must be somewhere. It is true that the system level displays a bundle and, theoretically, nothing can be added there. 

I really cannot figure out how that keylayout may show up in the settings if it is not somewhere at the sys level. 

[Tom]

Personally I never use the organizer but save the .keylayout or .bundle files to my desktop and then drag them manually into Library/Keyboard Layouts or ~/Library/Keyboard Layouts.  The 3rd location, System/Library/Keyboard Layouts is not accessible to users.  To get to ~/Library,  you hold down option while doing Finder > Go.

Your ABC Extended Copy has to be in one of the two accessible Keyboard Layout folders mentioned above it is appears on your Input Sources list.

[Gé van Gasteren]

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 6:22 PM Ross Bennett <theross...@gmail.com> wrote:

… whenever I've tried to use the Organizer to install keyboard layouts, I drag the file from its editing location into either of the panes and Ukelele crashes and disappears. I get the Apple crash dialog.  When I re-open Ukelele and re-open the Organizer, there's no indication in any pane that there was ever a file. Nothing in my personal "~/Library/Keyboard Layouts" even if that's what I've tried to install to with the Organizer.  And apparently no matter when I might have actually installed the keyboard bundle, it will only be found and added to the "Input Methods" options when it's loaded at boot or login time.

 

Hi Ross,

Why did you ignore Ukelele’s crashing? It means something is off with your keyboard layout.

Also, after a crash, the file may be damaged and unusable – and therefore "invisible".

Be very "hygienic" when working with the files: never edit them in Ukelele while they are installed.

The Organiser is great for teaching you such good behavior, including logging off etc. whenever recommended.

If you get another crash, take a look at the Crash Log and copy the relevant part into a text file for attaching to a message here, so John can check what’s going on.

[Ross Bennett]

Howdy, Gé! Thanks for your reply.

On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 12:06:07 PM UTC-5 Gé van Gasteren wrote:

Why did you ignore Ukelele’s crashing? It means something is off with your keyboard layout.

Also, after a crash, the file may be damaged and unusable – and therefore "invisible".

Hm…not sure how it might be invisible. I have no dot-files in the directories, no files hidden because of chflags hidden or such like.

But interestingly enough, I did go through and find a .DS_Store in my "~/Library/Keyboard Layouts" directory.  I deleted that, and confirmed there were no files at all in 

* /System/Library/Keyboard Layouts (which is protected, of course),

* /LibraryKeyboard Layouts, and 

* ~/Library/Keyboard Layouts,

Once I confirmed all that a restarted for good measure, the non-standard keyboard layouts and input methods were gone from my Keyboard Settings options.  So at least I'm now back to a clean slate.

Be very "hygienic" when working with the files: never edit them in Ukelele while they are installed.

The Organiser is great for teaching you such good behavior, including logging off etc. whenever recommended.

Always good advice. Thanks!  

 

If you get another crash, take a look at the Crash Log and copy the relevant part into a text file for attaching to a message here, so John can check what’s going on.

Okay! Will do. Always glad to provide data anywhere it will help.

 Ross

[Ross Bennett]

Thanks for the reply, Tom!

It's a little embarrassing to admit, but I've only just learned the distinction between the bundle names and the layout names. That's why I wasn't seeing what I expected in my Keyboard Settings dialog. So while my bundle was named one thing, my keyboard layout was named something quite different. (The name of the layout I'd built my own from, hence "ABC - Extended copy")

So I've learned a couple of things with everyone's suggestions. Still having some strangeness, but I'll put inquiries about those under a different subject so people can tell what's going on.

Thanks!