Really disappointed with my Iveco 3510 panel van...
PaulY
3510 van (Turbo Diesel) a few months ago. As you can tell from the subject
line I am far from happy with it:
It is not as economical as I was led to expect - I was assured that over
25mpg was to be expected, however I have never even got 20 (are there any
fuel economy stats available for my van, perhaps comparing it against the
competition?). I do a LOT of miles so it's very significant for me.
The gearbox is rubbish.
The suspension is crap.
The overall build quality is terrible - definitely not the wonderful machine
it is supposed to be. There are all sorts of problems, too numerous to list.
I wish now I'd stayed with Mercedes.
The dealer hasn't been interested up until now. I'm going back to see him
soon. Before I do I'd like to know if anyone else has had the same problems.
Can anyone suggest the best way to handle this?
Thanks
Keith (on Pauls machine)
AndyX2
<nospa...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
>I can't find a more specific forum for this post. I bought my 1998 Iveco
>3510 van (Turbo Diesel) a few months ago. As you can tell from the subject
>line I am far from happy with it:
>
>It is not as economical as I was led to expect - I was assured that over
>25mpg was to be expected, however I have never even got 20 (are there any
>fuel economy stats available for my van, perhaps comparing it against the
>competition?). I do a LOT of miles so it's very significant for me.
>
I don't know about your vehicle in particular. What I do know that is
driving style makes a lot of difference in fuel consumption. I've got
an instrument that measures ongoing fuel consumption in my cab. If I
drive economically by letting it roll up to junctions rather than
braking at the last minute and slowing from 56 to 54 mph on motorways
I can get 9 to 10 mpg compared to the usual 7 to 8. A visual check
really helps with this so you may consider fitting a fuel meter.
Hope this helps,
Andy
PaulY
Cheers for the replies - has anyone else here any comments about the 3510 or
Iveco's generally?
Ledswinger
news:XXEG5.56$Ou3....@news1.cableinet.net...
>
> Cheers for the replies - has anyone else here any comments about the 3510 or
> Iveco's generally?
>
Good if you like rust.
Led
Ask Me
<yaatsSP...@SPAMBLOCK.hotmail.com> carefully scribed:
>>
>
>Cheers for the replies - has anyone else here any comments about the 3510 or
>Iveco's generally?
>
Don't cruise with the pedal to the metal, that's what causes these
vans to drink so much diesel.
Cruise at 65.
Don't accelerate too quickly.
Roadholding is not too good with these vans, it's cause they are built
on an old fashioned seperate chassis.
Otherwise, they are shed loads better than they used to be.
Carpet fitters love em coz of the length inside.
Not much space under the bonnet.
Set off in second unless fully loaded.
If all else fails, sell the thing and buy a Ford Transit.
I worked for seven years in a self drive hire company.
In all that time, not one customer had a huge whinge about the
Transit.
Shame I can't say the same for Iveco, Sprinters, LDV's and all the
others.
That back to front gearbox has caused no end of grief for peeps who
expect first gear to be "to the left and then forwards"
emma harman
> Cheers for the replies - has anyone else here any comments about the 3510 or
> Iveco's generally?
ALL Ivecos are designed by accountants who have never sat behind a wheel
Quality hauliers buy quality trucks Ivecos are an example of you get what you
pay for.
~NM
Rupert
<emma....@virgin.net> wrote:
>ALL Ivecos are designed by accountants who have never sat behind a wheel
>Quality hauliers buy quality trucks Ivecos are an example of you get what you
>pay for.
Someone here might be able to answer this. I always thought Iveco was
part of Ford (their trucks and buses used to have Ford badges on) but
then I read something about them being a division of Fiat. (This would
account for the build quality.) Which of these is true?
emma harman
Answer to both points is yes, Ford and Fiat.
NM
Ledswinger
news:39ee329d...@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:58:28 +0100, emma harman
> <emma....@virgin.net> wrote:
>
> >ALL Ivecos are designed by accountants who have never sat behind a wheel
> >Quality hauliers buy quality trucks Ivecos are an example of you get what
you
> >pay for.
>
> Someone here might be able to answer this. I always thought Iveco was
> part of Ford (their trucks and buses used to have Ford badges on) but
> then I read something about them being a division of Fiat. (This would
> account for the build quality.) Which of these is true?
I can answer it, 'cos I used to work for the outfit.
In about 1988, Ford Europe wanted out of the truck game. The D series was
replaced by the Cargo, but they had no presence in the big truck market
(remember the Ford Tranconti? Just a rebadged Renault, but even the rebadging
was done by ERF, IIRC). The Langley assembly plant didn't have the scale to
survive in a consolidating market, and Ford wanted to avoid losing engineering
resource from cars to trucks, and to stem financial losses from trucks. So
they agreed a progressive buy out, whereby Iveco (Fiat's commercial arm)
progressively bought Ford out, although even after Iveco took complete
financial control (circa 1990?) they still kept the Iveco *Ford* identity to
try and engender customer loyalty. The transit plant at Eastleigh wasn't
included (much though Iveco would have liked) because it was such a money
spinner - Ford's strategists would probably argue that it was only an
extension of commercial end of the car market, but money was the real issue.
The loss making Langley assembly plant was taken on for two reasons - (a)
because it was more efficient than Leyland DAF, and would soon send them to
the wall, thus freeing up market share, and (b) it was only by buying the
plant that Iveco got what it really wanted, the dealer network and the coveted
Ford badge (since Iveco had no positive associations in the UK).
Anyway, Iveco had progressively bought a portfolio of various Italian truck
makers (OM and others), Magirus of Germany, and now Ford Trucks, Pegaso of
Spain (and therein Seddon Atkinson). The decision was taken to introduce a
standard product range across all the European factories, with elimination of
duplication. Langley built the SPR light truck for a while, to justify the
Ford badge, and to try and kid buyers that they were getting a British built
truck in the mould of the D series and Cargo, but as soon as the company
thought no one was watching production was wound down at Langley.
The problem with the Iveco vehicles quality wasn't really about accountant's
designing them - on the contrary the company was engineering led, and tried to
insource too many things that it was crap at (for example engines and
gearbags). OEM engines and kit were avoided wherever possible in favour of
kit designed and made by the group. However, this meant that too much came
from group companies which led to difficulty in getting leverage over
quality - if the supplier already had been paid on a self billing invoice (a
corporate direct debit if you like), then rejecting crap quality merely fucked
your production schedule, without worrying them. External QC was also poor.
One of our QC managers described Iveco QC as "shipping the bits into the plant
on the back of a camel, and counting how many there are". The red oxide
colour of the chassis was to disguise the fact that corrosion protection was
poor - compared to the far better quality of the black finish on the Cargo.
Seddon Atkinson's role as a bespoke assembler of name brand parts didn't
really fit with Iveco's volume approach, but it gave it access to the
traditional small operator, heavy haulage market that normally wouldn't touch
Iveco with a bargepole, but since I left I haven't been following what Iveco
did with SA - I'd be surprised if SA could make a profit as part of Iveco, and
would guess that it was wound up on the sly?
The European markets that Iveco already had presence in didn't have very high
expectations - the nationalist approach of the Italian market would accept any
old cack (added to which the climate was less hostile), and in the other
markets the brand was bargain basement. If as a German buyer you bought
Iveco, you'd already passed up Merc or MAN, and were buying on the basis of
cost, regardless of quality. With market wide over capacity, and a huge
production base in four countries, Iveco needed (and probably still need)
volume. So pile it high and sell it cheap is the order of the day.
Led
emma harman
> snipped to reduce post length.
>
> Led
Thanks for the comprehensive explanation, a couple of small points as an ex
Tranconti owner, these were Louisville Ford chassis, Cummins motor, Lipe Clutch,
Fuller roadranger gearbox, Spicer prop, rockwell axle, a real bitza. the only
Renault bit (and the poorest quality part) was the cabin which in fact Renault
had inherited when they bought out Berliet. The achillies heel of the transconti
was it's electrical system which was conceptually great but practically
problematic. These trucks were well ahead of their time and are sadly lamented by
many, Occasionally one still sees an example working. I thought the assembly was
at the Foden works not ERF. Do you know for sure which it was?
Seddon Atkinson marketed a version of the IVECO as the Atkinson Stratos but I'm
not sure it's still in production. I had the dubious pleasure of collecting one
from the docks for a customer last week, reinforcing my view that they are total
crap.
NM (Temporarily in the UK).
Rupert
<emma....@virgin.net> wrote:
>Ledswinger wrote:
>
>> snipped to reduce post length.
>>
>> Led
>
>Thanks for the comprehensive explanation,
Seconded.
By the way, their buses aren't much cop either...
Ledswinger
news:39F0332F...@virgin.net...
> Ledswinger wrote:
>
> > snipped to reduce post length.
> >
> > Led
>
> Tranconti owner, these were Louisville Ford chassis, Cummins motor, Lipe
Clutch,
> Fuller roadranger gearbox, Spicer prop, rockwell axle, a real bitza. the
only
> Renault bit (and the poorest quality part) was the cabin which in fact
Renault
> had inherited when they bought out Berliet.
Indeed, I'd forgotten the small maker kit aspect of the Tranconti. Funny how
truck cabs have a life all of their own, isn't it? The Steyr cabs ended up
briefly on a few ERF, IIRC the Iveco TEC's (hah!) used a derivative of a
former OM cab, and the first Seddon Atkinson Strato was based on the Pegaso
truck that incorporated the Leyland DAF artic cab.
> The achillies heel of the transconti
> was it's electrical system which was conceptually great but practically
> problematic. These trucks were well ahead of their time and are sadly
lamented by
> many, Occasionally one still sees an example working. I thought the
assembly was
> at the Foden works not ERF. Do you know for sure which it was?
>
No, I remember that it was one of the Cheshire mob, but it had been dropped by
the time I joined the company. Chances are you remember correctly.
> Seddon Atkinson marketed a version of the IVECO as the Atkinson Stratos but
I'm
> not sure it's still in production.
With the Europe wide introduction of the SPR in the early 90's, Pegaso would
have stopped using the LD cab, forcing SA to use an SPR cab. It was in
production as at September 1998, but apart from that I can find nothing.
Companies House[1] still show SA as active, with full year accounts due in
about ten days, but without paying money I can't establish if they are still
in production (I could of course phone them given the company details on the
link, but that's a bit proactive!).
"Motor Transport, Sept 23, 1999 p7
UK: SEDDON ATKINSON REVEALS FUTURE PLANS.
Abstract: Management at the UK-based heavy truck assembly business, Seddon
Atkinson, have disclosed plans to improve in terms of product development,
assembly and sales. The company, which is part of Italy's Iveco Group, is
currently lagging behind in terms of commercial vehicle registrations in the
UK and the feeling is that a large fleet customer is required to trigger a
revival in its fortunes, given that customers are primarily mid-sized hauliers
and smaller fleets at present. Seddon has benefitted from the matrix system of
management at Iveco, which has resulted in a slower decision-making process
for the former but more support from the parent company <Hah! - Led>. Seddon
and the group purchasing operation at Iveco are now working together to
establish the finance and repair and maintenance packages sought by operators
and to generate cost from the trucks"
> I had the dubious pleasure of collecting one
> from the docks for a customer last week, reinforcing my view that they are
total
> crap.
>
Hardly surprising given the bastard origins, and the fact that Iveco design
things only once. If it doesn't work, it never gets put right - look at the
complaints about the cab layout, which have been heard since the SPR was
launched.
Led
[1]http://ws3info.companies-house.gov.uk/info.cgi?cname=SEDDON%20ATKINSON%20SP
ARES%20%26%20SERVICE%20LIMITED&cnumb=01014639&status=%20&id=67c20732084294f23d
fda969a7f92061