Unbuilt Motorway - M23
Mikael Armstrong
I was looking at an old map the other day and I saw that the M23 was once
planned to go a lot deeper into london past Croydon. Does anybody know why
this was never done?
Mikael
AstraVanMan
It was to do with the small matter of demolishing a very large amount of
South London. There's a map on Chris Marshall's roads web site, but I can't
quote the URL off-hand. Chris, if you're here can you do the honours?
(otherwise just look up any of his posts and it's in his sig)
Peter
JNugent
news:oLI18.39505$_x4.6...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
I took a look just now...
Chris...
Your point about the A6...
It originally started as a branch of the A1 in the middle of Barnet before
the rambling A1 Barnet Bypass diversion via Hendon was built. That means
that it later became a branch of the A1000 Great North Road (which was what
the old A1 was re-numbered to from the top of Highgate Hill through Barnet
towards Hatfield).
It *is* there on your map, but just doesn't have an "A6" legend against it.
Of course, the A6 was - in those days - a complete through route from London
(via A1) to Carlisle, via Barnet, S. Mimms, St Albans, Luton, etc, through
to Leicester, Derby, Buxton, Disley, Stockport, Manchester, Salford, Bolton,
Preston, Lancaster, Kendal and Shap. Today, many stretches don't officially
exist any more (deliberately renumbered to confuse drivers and make them
take longer routes) - as is also the case with A5 and a number of other
roads (A46 springs to mind).
Andrew Norman
I believe there are still plans to finish it at some point.
Nightjar
"Mikael Armstrong" <Mik...@chemist.com> wrote in message
news:3c47509b$0$8513$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
I have a feeling that the plans were to link it to the London inner ring
road that was abandoned some time ago.
Colin Bignell
Chris Marshall
"AstraVanMan" <Pe...@SwerveCLOTHESWeb.com> wrote in message
news:oLI18.39505$_x4.6...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Certainly, Peter, it's at the bottom of this post!
--
Chris Marshall
http://www.error-404.co.uk/roads
(Email spam-proofed)
Chris Marshall
"Andrew Norman" <an...@norman.cx> wrote in message
news:d43f4usjvl490v04a...@4ax.com...
I think these were officially scrapped in 1995 (someone who emailed me
quoted this) - the houses along the route were owned for decades by the
DOT/DETR and rented out but have now been sold off and other waste land
along the route has been developed - plus the unfinished junction at j7
where it would have been continued will now be turned into a roundabout. I
think it's fair to say that its completion is unlikely!
I'd like to see the A23 turned in to the M23 all the way to Brighton
though - it's just about there anyway.
The Technical Manager
> "Mikael Armstrong" <Mik...@chemist.com> wrote in message
> news:3c47509b$0$8513$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> > All,
> >
> > I was looking at an old map the other day and I saw that the M23 was once
> > planned to go a lot deeper into london past Croydon. Does anybody know why
> > this was never done?
The M3 was originally to link up with the A12.
AstraVanMan
once
> > > planned to go a lot deeper into london past Croydon. Does anybody know
why
> > > this was never done?
>
> The M3 was originally to link up with the A12.
Well, the A2 now does (if it's any consolation). Also, does anyone know why
there are lights on the North entrance to the Blackwall Tunnel? Are there
some sort of safety regulations regarding how many vehicles can pass through
the tunnel at any one time?
Peter
Ian Bailey
Would have run west of Croydon to link up with the South Circular
Motorway ("Ringway 2") in Streatham.
There are various other places where motorway extensions have been
planned and not built:
M1- Projected extension south of the North Circular. To have linked up
with the North Cross Route? Junction 3 is also missing- was to have
been the A1(M) junction before the latter's extension south of South
Mimms was cancelled. J3 is now London Gateway services only, but was
referred to as "Junction 3" on roadworks signs a year or two back.
M3- Projected extention further into London (IIRC)
M4- Junction 31. Anyone got any ideas?
M8- Junctions 6-8. Road never built as motorway. Also various stup-end
slip roads in Glasgow City Centre
M11- Junctions 4-1. Some maps showed the A406/A12 roundabout as M11 J3
(slip roads go most of the way there). There are various signs of
possible extensions-the slip road from the northbound A406 to the M11
crosses a bridge over nothing. Same with the southbound M11
carriageway just before it splits in two.
M25- Note the split in the carriageways immediately west of junction
23. Opened between J23 and J24 as an A-road (A1181?) long before the
M25 project got going properly. Would the main carriageway have hooked
up with the extension of the A1(M)?
M41- Now reduced to plain old A3220, the 1 mile M41 in West London was
to have been the main London-Birmingham motorway before they scrapped
it and built the M40 instead
M53- Note the split in the carriageways west of junction 5. Junctions
5-10 were built as (IIRC) an A-road converted to become M531. The
original M53 was to run west of Chester
M58- J2 missing for the projected Liverpool-Preston motorway. The M58
was also projected to run east to join the M61 at Junction 5.
M60- J25. The southbound motorway slips off an unfinished carriageway
which was to have been the A6(M) running east of Hazel Grove, linking
up to a completed A555 to provide an alternative route to Manchester
Airport. There also used to be a junction 5 on the M63, which was
between what are now J8 & 9 of the M60. This Junction (5) closed when
the A6144(M) was built. There was also a missing Junction 16 on the
M62 (between present day M60 J16 & 17) which my father tells me was
for the "Irwell Valley motorway" planned in the 60s.
M62- J4-1. Planned urban motorway linking up with the never built
Liverpool inner ring motorway. Both were cancelled in (IIRC) the late
1970s.
M67- extensions at either end. At J4 in the east the motorway fizzles
out to become a 2 lane dual carriageway for the last 1/4 mile.
Prominent stub ends of the main carriageway. In the east at the M60
junction is the "Ski-jump"- an unfinished main carriageway ramp which
according to dad was originally planned to link up with the Mancunian
Way.
M69- note the carriageway split immediately west of its junction with
the M1. The main carriageway would have pointed north, but with
Leicester Forest East services in the way I can't see it as a direct
route from M1 north. As the M69 ahould be numbered the A46(M) how
about an extension to where the modern day A46 Leicester Northern
Bypass runs?
M74- West of Junction 2-M8 Junction 20. The southern leg of the
Glasgow motorway box. Still on the cards to try and relieve the M8.
M80- south of Junction 4. And no, I don't count the urban bit built in
Glasgow a while back
M602- east end extension to the Mancunian Way. Planned in the 60s, now
dropped.
M606- northern extension into Bradford. Junction with the A6177 has
empty underpass bridges on it.
A1(M)- count the missing junction numbers on the unbuilt sections,
then count the number of major roads the existing A1 crosses. Do they
add up? No.... The next bit of A1(M) to be be built will be south of
J47. J46 will be a new junction with the B1224 at Wetherby. So what
about a Wetherby junction and an A659 junction. They even rebuilt the
between the A64 and Wetherby a few years back to motorway standard-
including the A659 junction. So why didn't they allocate it a junction
number?
A167(M)- Newcastle's Central Motorway was supposed to be longer than
it is originally
A823(M)- Its junction with the M90 was to have had an eastern
extension to ???
Can anyone spot any more missing junctions/motorways? And I mean on
built or part-built ones....
Ian
Mikael Armstrong
"Ian Bailey" <i.ba...@nature.com> wrote in message
news:4db6121f.02011...@posting.google.com...
That is a very informative posting, and covers all the things I have
wondered about and more! It is a shame really that some of the roads have
not been properly completed, so the full benefits could be realised.
Round our way - Tring in Hertfordshire, they built the A41(M) as part of the
first stage in the construction of a Motorway to go to Watford. It was
supposed to be 2 lane standard along half of it, then become 3 lanes as far
as Watford. The canned that project eventually to save a bit of money, and
proceeded to design a single carriageway with roundabouts, then another one
with a wide single carriageway, then they did another design for 2 lane dual
carriageway with roundabouts, then decided it best have grade-separated
junctions - but Mickey mouse ones with slip roads long enough to reach 10
mph! This was the road they built after they had spent 200 million on legal
fees, design fees and consultants. The final road actually cost about 40
million, but the original Motorway would have cost about 15 million I think!
The first proposal followed a route which blended best with the countryside,
had good junctions, and fewer less abrupt curves in it - just a shame they
never built it as planned. Now we have a crowded dual carriageway way which
grinds to a halt when vehicles break down due to the lack of a hard
shoulder!
Chris Marshall
> with the North Cross Route? Junction 3 is also missing- was to have
> been the A1(M) junction before the latter's extension south of South
> Mimms was cancelled. J3 is now London Gateway services only, but was
> referred to as "Junction 3" on roadworks signs a year or two back.
The roundabout is there, missing the eastern side. I thought it had
originally had a link road to the A1, but I'm not sure.
> M3- Projected extention further into London (IIRC)
London Box plan?
> M4- Junction 31. Anyone got any ideas?
A469 Caerphilly exit, I always thought.
> M8- Junctions 6-8. Road never built as motorway. Also various stup-end
> slip roads in Glasgow City Centre
The missing sliproads were where the eastern side of the city centre box was
meant to start, but was never built. When the M74's finished though... who
knows!
> M11- Junctions 4-1. Some maps showed the A406/A12 roundabout as M11 J3
> (slip roads go most of the way there). There are various signs of
> possible extensions-the slip road from the northbound A406 to the M11
> crosses a bridge over nothing. Same with the southbound M11
> carriageway just before it splits in two.
Finished, but as part of the A406 so the neighbours wouldn't complain about
a motorway.
> M25- Note the split in the carriageways immediately west of junction
> 23. Opened between J23 and J24 as an A-road (A1181?) long before the
> M25 project got going properly. Would the main carriageway have hooked
> up with the extension of the A1(M)?
No idea!
> M41- Now reduced to plain old A3220, the 1 mile M41 in West London was
> to have been the main London-Birmingham motorway before they scrapped
> it and built the M40 instead
Tring bypass too - now plain old A41 but apparently it's very obviously a
motorway if you drive it.
> M53- Note the split in the carriageways west of junction 5. Junctions
> 5-10 were built as (IIRC) an A-road converted to become M531. The
> original M53 was to run west of Chester
On my website for details!
> M62- J4-1. Planned urban motorway linking up with the never built
> Liverpool inner ring motorway. Both were cancelled in (IIRC) the late
> 1970s.
Didn't know this... I thought it was because originally the M62 ran along
the M63, so to keep junction numbers consistent along the Pennine stretch,
they ran backwards along the new section which left three unused numbers
(did that make sense?). Liverpool had all kinds of mad motorway plans for a
while though.
> M67- extensions at either end. At J4 in the east the motorway fizzles
> out to become a 2 lane dual carriageway for the last 1/4 mile.
> Prominent stub ends of the main carriageway. In the east at the M60
> junction is the "Ski-jump"- an unfinished main carriageway ramp which
> according to dad was originally planned to link up with the Mancunian
> Way.
This was meant to run through a railway tunnel which was closed but never
used apparently. Now it's being consideration to reopen following all the
rail problems! My AA road map shows a railway line with no stations heading
north-west from Sheffield and going nowhere...
> M69- note the carriageway split immediately west of its junction with
> the M1. The main carriageway would have pointed north, but with
> Leicester Forest East services in the way I can't see it as a direct
> route from M1 north. As the M69 ahould be numbered the A46(M) how
> about an extension to where the modern day A46 Leicester Northern
> Bypass runs?
I think this was just meant to provide fast-access sliproads on to the M1 as
part of the same junction. Then the M42/A42 was built and they gave up.
> M74- West of Junction 2-M8 Junction 20. The southern leg of the
> Glasgow motorway box. Still on the cards to try and relieve the M8.
Going ahead, completion 2008 IIRC.
> M80- south of Junction 4. And no, I don't count the urban bit built in
> Glasgow a while back
And they haven't left themselves enough junction numbers for Cumbernauld
either.
> M602- east end extension to the Mancunian Way. Planned in the 60s, now
> dropped.
Ah, if only... then the whole thing could become M67!
> M606- northern extension into Bradford. Junction with the A6177 has
> empty underpass bridges on it.
I think there was work on this last time I came through. Not sure what was
going on, if there was construction or if they were just tidying up the
loose end. Trouble is the road is mantained by Bradford CC so any changes
will probably be slow and budgeted.
> A1(M)- count the missing junction numbers on the unbuilt sections,
> then count the number of major roads the existing A1 crosses. Do they
> add up? No.... The next bit of A1(M) to be be built will be south of
> J47. J46 will be a new junction with the B1224 at Wetherby. So what
> about a Wetherby junction and an A659 junction. They even rebuilt the
> between the A64 and Wetherby a few years back to motorway standard-
> including the A659 junction. So why didn't they allocate it a junction
> number?
Who knows. Not that the Wetherby bypass is anywhere near consideration
anyway...
> A167(M)- Newcastle's Central Motorway was supposed to be longer than
> it is originally
Weren't all the urban motorways?
> Can anyone spot any more missing junctions/motorways? And I mean on
> built or part-built ones....
Leesd was meant to have a load more urban motorways out into the suburbs and
connecting the M1 and M621 up to the city centre. Looks to me like there was
also meant to be more spurs from the M27 - M271 and M275 but three numbers
missing in the middle. There was certainly a proposed spur in the east side
of Southampton.
plumstead21
> > M1- Projected extension south of the North Circular. To have linked up
> > with the North Cross Route? Junction 3 is also missing- was to have
> > been the A1(M) junction before the latter's extension south of South
> > Mimms was cancelled. J3 is now London Gateway services only, but was
> > referred to as "Junction 3" on roadworks signs a year or two back.
>
> The roundabout is there, missing the eastern side.
And as a result has very tight turns when exiting/entering the southbound carriageways.
I thought it had
> originally had a link road to the A1, but I'm not sure.
No - this was never built. It would have been mighty useful, though, for bypassing Finchley and Mill Hill - just zip up on the M1 and turn off at J3! Junctions 2 and 4 are limited access, so the first exit going
northbound, as the motorway currently stands, is J5. Suspicion - this was cancelled because it went through the middle of Scratchwood?
> > M3- Projected extention further into London (IIRC)
>
> London Box plan?
A few of the "down-arrow" signs on the gantries on the A316 (onto which the M3 terminates at Sunbury Cross) have blue backgrounds! The A316 from the M3 to Apex Corner (A312) has grade-separated junctions
and 60s-style flyovers. I don't think it has hard shoulders, though, so it could have been intended as a 2-lane motorway. Construction beyond Apex Corner would have involved bulldozing swathes of Twickenham
and Richmond (presumably the motorway would have linked up with the M4/A4 or S Circular) however, which I'm sure the residents would not have liked.
> > M25- Note the split in the carriageways immediately west of junction
> > 23. Opened between J23 and J24 as an A-road (A1181?) long before the
> > M25 project got going properly. Would the main carriageway have hooked
> > up with the extension of the A1(M)?
>
> No idea!
Mmm - I've often wondered what that gap was for. At first I thought they were trying to preserve some ancient flora and fauna, but then I noticed that there was no access to and from the island! I'd imagine it
would have been some kind of junction, but it's a bit too far east of the current M25 J23: IIRC the carriageway doesn't split till a few hundred yards after the junction.
There's a map on the SABRE site (at http://www.witchypoo.freeserve.co.uk/m16.jpg ) which shows this bit of M25 as the M16!
> > M41- Now reduced to plain old A3220, the 1 mile M41 in West London was
> > to have been the main London-Birmingham motorway before they scrapped
> > it and built the M40 instead
>
> Tring bypass too - now plain old A41 but apparently it's very obviously a
> motorway if you drive it.
The M41 is probably the most obvious candidate for Missing Bits of Motorway. At the A40 junction the northbound carriageway makes a very sharp turn to the right - presumably this was intended to be the slip
road, and the main carriageway carrying on under the roundabout, where (IIRC) there is now a basketball court. You can see the 'stubs' of slip-roads on the N side of the roundabout, threatening the chimneys of
North Kensington! ISTR watching a program on tv about the Westway about 5 years ago, which had people enthusing on how the line of the carriageway was just right for driving - the bends were just right etc.
[Shame about the terrible road surface!] It showed the activities going on underneath the Westway - this basketball court, Portobello Rd market, some dodgy club or other, ...
> > Can anyone spot any more missing junctions/motorways? And I mean on
> > built or part-built ones....
>
> Leesd was meant to have a load more urban motorways out into the suburbs and
> connecting the M1 and M621 up to the city centre. Looks to me like there was
> also meant to be more spurs from the M27 - M271 and M275 but three numbers
> missing in the middle. There was certainly a proposed spur in the east side
> of Southampton.
..and there's a missing junction number on the M27 (J6 is it?) to link it up to!
HTH,
plumst.
Nick Finnigan
> which was to have been the A6(M) running east of Hazel Grove, linking
> up to a completed A555 to provide an alternative route to Manchester
> Airport.
The roads are still planned, but may not be (M) standard.
There also used to be a junction 5 on the M63, which was
> between what are now J8 & 9 of the M60. This Junction (5) closed when
> the A6144(M) was built.
... and the M63 widened around Barton Bridge.
> M602- east end extension to the Mancunian Way. Planned in the 60s, now
> dropped.
... but an upgraded route will be completed shortly.
Geoff Rimmer
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:07:44 -0000, "Chris Marshall"
> <chris at 5156 dot co dot uk> wrote:
> > > M25- Note the split in the carriageways immediately west of
> > > junction 23. Opened between J23 and J24 as an A-road (A1181?)
> > > long before the M25 project got going properly. Would the main
> > > carriageway have hooked up with the extension of the A1(M)?
> >
> > No idea!
>
> Mmm - I've often wondered what that gap was for. At first I thought
> they were trying to preserve some ancient flora and fauna, but then
> I noticed that there was no access to and from the island! I'd
> imagine it would have been some kind of junction, but it's a bit too
> far east of the current M25 J23: IIRC the carriageway doesn't split
> till a few hundred yards after the junction.
>
> There's a map on the SABRE site (at
> http://www.witchypoo.freeserve.co.uk/m16.jpg ) which shows this bit
> of M25 as the M16!
Yep, and if you look closely, this map also shows a proposed motorway
from the west end of this M16 (possibly from the M25 gap mentioned
above) to the south west, presumably to join/cross the M1 between M1
J4 and M1 J5.
--
Geoff Rimmer
geoff....@sillyfish.com
http://www.sillyfish.com/phone How to make savings on your BT phone calls
The Service Manager
dot co dot uk> wrote:
>
>> M606- northern extension into Bradford. Junction with the A6177 has
>> empty underpass bridges on it.
>
A work colleague did his work experience building the grade separated
junction there. Building it as such added greatly to the cost. The
motorway was intended to go further on into Bradford. This has been
abandoned and the route built over for 20? yrs now.
>I think there was work on this last time I came through. Not sure what was
>going on, if there was construction or if they were just tidying up the
>loose end. Trouble is the road is mantained by Bradford CC so any changes
>will probably be slow and budgeted.
>
They have established a route from the Bradford ring road Ainsley top
direction to the M606 avoiding the very busy roundabout. There is also
a small industrial estate built where the motorway was planned to go
accessible directly from the end of the motorway IIAC. It would appear
this is the end of development.
The Service Manager
Ian Bailey
> > M62- J4-1. Planned urban motorway linking up with the never built
> > Liverpool inner ring motorway. Both were cancelled in (IIRC) the late
> > 1970s.
>
> Didn't know this... I thought it was because originally the M62 ran along
> the M63, so to keep junction numbers consistent along the Pennine stretch,
> they ran backwards along the new section which left three unused numbers
> (did that make sense?). Liverpool had all kinds of mad motorway plans for a
> while though.
Yup. How does an inner ring road motorway linked out to the suburbs by
radial spoke motorways, with the whole lot keeping traffic off city
streets completely by directing cars to new car parks? Whole thing was
dropped by 1970, with J1-4 of the M62 getting the axe in 1976 when
junctions 4-6 opened.
Out of interest, the original M63 opened in 1960 comprising what is
now M60 J13-J7, so only a mile or so of the M62 used to be the M63.
Ian
The Technical Manager
There have been plans to extend the M27 both eastwards and westwards linking Devon to Dover.
Peter Cooper
> built or part-built ones....
Yes, all around Peterborough.
Does anyone understand the junction numbering system on the
dual-carriageways around Peterborough? The numbers seem to be pretty random
to me.. but having to regularly drive around the town on my way down to
London, it seems that there was originally going to be a dual carriageway
ring-road around the entire town (there already is - but all different road
numbers). Anyone know?
Pete
Peter Cooper
why
> there are lights on the North entrance to the Blackwall Tunnel? Are there
> some sort of safety regulations regarding how many vehicles can pass
through
> the tunnel at any one time?
Depends what lights you're on about. Heading southbound (what I'd imagine
you mean by 'North entrance') you have a set of lights that allows the
constant flow of traffic from the A13 to actually join the A102 to go under
the tunnel. Their use is obvious.
However, AFAIR, there's traffic lights about 30 yards from the tunnel
opening on each side. From what I've seen of long tunnels (especially
submarine ones) this is standard. If a problem is detected in the tunnel,
they can stop traffic before it goes in and gets stuck.
Pete
John McCabe
dot co dot uk> wrote:
>> M80- south of Junction 4. And no, I don't count the urban bit built in
>> Glasgow a while back
>
>And they haven't left themselves enough junction numbers for Cumbernauld
>either.
Not a problem - just use letters like on the M3 (J4 and J4A), M42, M6
etc.
John McCabe
<plums...@mail.ru> wrote:
>> Leesd was meant to have a load more urban motorways out into the suburbs and
>> connecting the M1 and M621 up to the city centre. Looks to me like there was
>> also meant to be more spurs from the M27 - M271 and M275 but three numbers
>> missing in the middle. There was certainly a proposed spur in the east side
>> of Southampton.
>..and there's a missing junction number on the M27 (J6 is it?) to link it up to!
I believe that is the number of the missing junction - Eastleigh is 5,
and the previous one (Hedge End?) is 7.
John McCabe
<tec...@niobiumfive.co.uk> wrote:
>There have been plans to extend the M27 both eastwards and westwards linking Devon to Dover.
How they number that *is* going to be interesting - never heard of a
Juntion -1, -2, -3 etc before :-)
AstraVanMan
> you mean by 'North entrance') you have a set of lights that allows the
> constant flow of traffic from the A13 to actually join the A102 to go
under
> the tunnel. Their use is obvious.
I think this could have been it - I can't remember if there was any major
junction with traffic from the junction joining the tunnel approach road,
but there could well have been.
> However, AFAIR, there's traffic lights about 30 yards from the tunnel
> opening on each side. From what I've seen of long tunnels (especially
> submarine ones) this is standard. If a problem is detected in the tunnel,
> they can stop traffic before it goes in and gets stuck.
Could have been either to be honest - it was pretty close to the tunnel -
don't remember how close.
Peter
Chris Marshall
"John McCabe" <john....@emrad.ns.com> wrote in message
news:3c4be0c4...@news.demon.co.uk...
More likely renumber the ones afterwards - it's not a long motorway.
Clive Backham
dot co dot uk> wrote:
>I'd like to see the A23 turned in to the M23 all the way to Brighton
>though - it's just about there anyway.
Why? The A23 is perfectly servicable as it is now. Apart from a short
section with a couple of bends that bother a few scared bunnies, I've
never noticed any problem, even on the two lane sections.
John Wells
news:<SAM18.3357$nA4.8...@monolith.news.easynet.net>...
> > "Mikael Armstrong" <Mik...@chemist.com> wrote in message
> > news:3c47509b$0$8513$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> > > All,
> > >
> > > I was looking at an old map the other day and I saw that the M23 was
once
> > > planned to go a lot deeper into london past Croydon. Does anybody know
why
> > > this was never done?
> >
> > I have a feeling that the plans were to link it to the London inner ring
> > road that was abandoned some time ago.
> >
> > Colin Bignell
>
>
> Can anyone spot any more missing junctions/motorways? And I mean on
> built or part-built ones....
Weren't there originally plans for the M10 to be a lot longer than it is?
Chris Marshall
"John Wells" <john....@kensalfree.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1011716466.17220....@news.demon.co.uk...
> Weren't there originally plans for the M10 to be a lot longer than it is?
Not sure. Its original purpose was to throw as much traffic off the M1 as
possible before it all piled back onto the urban streets of London (same as
the M45 did at the top). I haven't heard anything about it being intended to
go any further (though my history of British motorways book is on its way so
I'll let you know!)
Chris Marshall
"Clive Backham" <cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c4d45f6....@supernews.nildram.co.uk...
Not so much for traffic flow but rather for the annoying fact that the many
motorway-standard roads that we have are often not signed as motorways, just
so that the Highways Agency doesn't get so many complaints (improvements to
the A23 behind your house doesn't sound as bad as building a motorway there,
even though for all intents and purposes that's what the A23, A14, A42 etc
are).
This idea works better with something like the A303/A30 from Basingstoke to
Exeter. This is the obvious route from London to Devon and Cornwall.
Nevertheless, I know people who insist on using M4/M5 to do the same trip -
adding miles and hitting congestion at Bristol - just so they can use the
motorway. Sign the A303 as a motorway (even just in patches where a m-way
standard road exists) and the intended route becomes clearer on maps and on
the road. Drivers trust motorways to be big and fast but an A-road can be
anything.
Hopefully that makes it clearer! I've discussed this on this ng before and a
lot of people felt the same way.
Pete Langdale
dot co dot uk> wrote:
>This idea works better with something like the A303/A30 from Basingstoke to
>Exeter. This is the obvious route from London to Devon and Cornwall.
>Nevertheless, I know people who insist on using M4/M5 to do the same trip -
>adding miles and hitting congestion at Bristol - just so they can use the
>motorway.
Er, and save about an hour's driving time?
--
Pete Langdale
At the moment, the net is mostly made up of educated
individuals. What will happen when anyone can login?
J.C. Herz 1994
Stevie D
> Er, and save about an hour's driving time?
Not normally! When I've done the M3/A303 route, it has usually been
very quick, with little cause to slow below 80 on the d/c and 70 on
the s/c - roundabouts, villages and the occasional truck excepted.
It is considerably shorter than the M4/M5, and will be quicker in most
circumstances. OK, so if your journey starts somewhere like Uxbridge
then maybe the M4 is quicker, because of the extra mileage you need to
get to the M3 - but from central London, I would never even consider
the M4/M5 route.
--
Stevie D
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AstraVanMan
> circumstances. OK, so if your journey starts somewhere like Uxbridge
> then maybe the M4 is quicker, because of the extra mileage you need to
> get to the M3 - but from central London, I would never even consider
> the M4/M5 route.
The M4/M5 route can also be quicker coming back from the Westcountry to the
home counties in holday traffic, because of all the bottlenecks on the A303.
Peter
Pete Langdale
<stevieiny...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Pete Langdale wrote:
>
>> Er, and save about an hour's driving time?
>
>Not normally! When I've done the M3/A303 route, it has usually been
>very quick, with little cause to slow below 80 on the d/c and 70 on
>the s/c - roundabouts, villages and the occasional truck excepted.
The single carriageway bit between Ilminster (ish) and the Honiton
bypass makes the shorter distance between London and there irrelevant.
Christ, it's quicker to dive up the A358 to Taunton and down the M5 to
Exeter than it is to carry on on the A303/A30. The quicker that bit
is dualled the better.