"Except Authorised Vehicles"
Alasdair Baxter
One often sees at motorway service stations and elsewhere the familiar
No Entry signs with the qualifier "Except Authorised Vehicles". How is
an "Authorised Vehicle" defined? Does my car become an "Authorised
Vehicle" for legal purposes if I obtain the permission of a shopgirl at
the service area to enter the prohibited road?
--
Alasdair Baxter, Nottingham, UK. Tel +44 115 9705100; Fax +44 115 9423263
"It's not what you say that matters but how you say it.
It's not what you do that matters but how you do it"
Robert Woolley
>One often sees at motorway service stations and elsewhere the familiar
>No Entry signs with the qualifier "Except Authorised Vehicles". How is
>an "Authorised Vehicle" defined? Does my car become an "Authorised
>Vehicle" for legal purposes if I obtain the permission of a shopgirl at
>the service area to enter the prohibited road?
[snip]
Authorised vehicles will designated in the traffic regulation order
which sets the restriction. These will usually be defined as police
vehicles, (the classic phrase used in any TRO is, "Nothing above
shall apply to an act done with the consent of a police officer in
uniform"), vehicles servicing the MSA, fire engines or where authority
has been granted by the Highways Agency.
Rob.
Robert Woolley BSc(Hons) DIS MCIT MIHT LLDip
Assistant Engineer, Transport Policy, Hertfordshire County Council
The opinions expressed are not necessarily mine, let alone HCC's.
Brennig Jones
In message <341ab276...@news.easynet.co.uk>
R...@nospam.robert.woolley.easynet.co.uk (Robert Woolley) writes:
> Authorised vehicles will designated in the traffic regulation order
> which sets the restriction. These will usually be defined as police
> vehicles, (the classic phrase used in any TRO is, "Nothing above
> shall apply to an act done with the consent of a police officer in
> uniform"), vehicles servicing the MSA, fire engines or where authority
> has been granted by the Highways Agency.
But there are occasions when signs say "Works Access Only", where
access is obviously not for typical "works" vehicles.
The best case in point is the exit from M4 Eastbound which comes
after the 2nd Swindon junction.
By know everyone and his grandmother must know that this is really a
secure access into the USAF Bomb-store at Welford.
B.
Alasdair Baxter
In article <341ab276...@news.easynet.co.uk>, Robert Woolley
<R...@nospam.robert.woolley.easynet.co.uk> writes
>Authorised vehicles will designated in the traffic regulation order
>which sets the restriction.
Please, where can a copy of the relevant traffic regulation order be
obtained. I've tried the DoT and the County Council without success.
Hgrps
In article <E4KvFDAk...@dram.demon.co.uk>, Alasdair Baxter
<alas...@dram.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>Please, where can a copy of the relevant traffic regulation order be
>obtained. I've tried the DoT and the County Council without success.
>--
Traffic Regulation Orders are specific to each case, although they may be
framed in a common manner to ensure that the relevant bans/permissions are
not conflicting, or contradictory with the law or likely use. They often
take 12-18 months to move from proposal to effect, during which you can
comment if you spot the ad in the paper, or paper on the lamppost.
One passed and in force they're filed away... somewhere! and often
forgotten about, unless its a bus lane.
Dave
Dave Holladay - Engineer & Transport Consultant - 30 years exp. in
alternative transport
Builder of cyclepaths, TDM research, bikes on bus & train, folding bikes &
boats supplier
Tall Persons Club - Edinburgh Fringe Festival - Dancing(many types inc
Sc.)
Alasdair Baxter
In article <19970927003...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, Hgrps
<hg...@aol.com> writes
>One passed and in force they're filed away... somewhere! and often
>forgotten about, unless its a bus lane.
Surely they have to be found if someone is caught disobeying them and
pleads not guilty.
Hgrps
In article <bo6oBDAO...@dram.demon.co.uk>, Alasdair Baxter
<alas...@dram.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>Surely they have to be found if someone is caught disobeying them and
>pleads not guilty.
Sorry switched on <cynic> mode for my comment, but it is very difficult to
track down the orders on local roads. Usually the easiest ones to log are
the waiting restriction orders, and we've just had a batch round here,
which are being re-posted to include a road closure (good move to stop rat
running) which is waiting until the next TRO to do the lot on a traffic
management scheme (waiting, road closures, limiting access, 1-way street
orders etc.). With so many I reckon the local cop shop should have a ready
reference of dates etc for bringing charges/verifying tickets for parking
offences etc, but may not have full documents readily to hand.
Pete Lucas
Hgrps wrote:
> Sorry switched on <cynic> mode for my comment, but it is very difficult to
> track down the orders on local roads. Usually the easiest ones to log are
> the waiting restriction orders, and we've just had a batch round here,
> which are being re-posted to include a road closure (good move to stop rat
> running) which is waiting until the next TRO to do the lot on a traffic
> management scheme (waiting, road closures, limiting access, 1-way street
> orders etc.).
I've always wondered - just how do councils etc. have to notify the
people that are going to be affected by these orders? When they
installed traffic-frustrating measures down my road a couple of
years back, all the residents were really annoyed in that we hadn't
been consulted, or notified... first we got to know about it was
when these damned silly bumps started being installed.
And what is the post-installation appeals process? Can pressure
from residents ever get ridiculous bits of street-furniture
removed?
//PJML//
Hgrps
In article <34335...@wltss01.nerc-wallingford.ac.uk>, Pete Lucas
<pj...@mail.nerc-swindon.ac!uk> writes:
>I've always wondered - just how do councils etc. have to notify the
>people that are going to be affected by these orders? When they
>installed traffic-frustrating measures down my road a couple of
>years back, all the residents were really annoyed in that we hadn't
>been consulted, or notified... first we got to know about it was
>when these damned silly bumps started being installed.
>
In Glasgow the LA gets a 'run of the paper' rate for posting temporary
traffic orders (ie closure for crane operations between 00.00 Saturday and
00.00 Monday) and you need to be fly to spot them. I often comment or
object when these say diversionary route blah blah, and fail to remember
that pedestrians use the highway too, and (as on one famous instance) the
diversion was originally signed up the M9, with no helpful suggestion to
those who would find this rather a difficult route to take :-)). The
Scottish Office posts those 50mph and other orders in the Public Notices
bit, and IIRC the permanent notices go in the local blatt, and the
Edinburgh Gazette, as well as being stuck up on lamposts or other
convenient things at the site. Thus it is always worthwhile reading any
official looking scrap of close typed paper tied to a bit of card on a
lamppost, you find out the most interesting things, often in time to object.
Post event it gets a lot harder, unless you can prove some major technical
or safety omission (eg the speed bumps are 50 cm too close to a corner, or
5 cm too high in the middle, according to DoTER diagram 1000.666 A Issue
99). Sometimes the work has to be ripped up and done again, and then the
fur flies!
HTH
D
John Troke
Hgrps <hg...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971003191...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> In article <34335...@wltss01.nerc-wallingford.ac.uk>, Pete Lucas
> <pj...@mail.nerc-swindon.ac!uk> writes:
>
> >I've always wondered - just how do councils etc. have to notify the
> >people that are going to be affected by these orders? When they
> >installed traffic-frustrating measures down my road a couple of
> >years back, all the residents were really annoyed in that we hadn't
> >been consulted, or notified... first we got to know about it was
> >when these damned silly bumps started being installed.
> In Glasgow the LA gets a 'run of the paper' rate for posting temporary
> traffic orders (ie closure for crane operations between 00.00 Saturday
and
> 00.00 Monday) and you need to be fly to spot them. <snip> The
> Scottish Office posts those 50mph and other orders in the Public Notices
> bit, and IIRC the permanent notices go in the local blatt, and the
> Edinburgh Gazette, as well as being stuck up on lamposts or other
> convenient things at the site. Thus it is always worthwhile reading any
> official looking scrap of close typed paper tied to a bit of card on a
> lamppost, you find out the most interesting things, often in time to
object.
>
> Post event it gets a lot harder, unless you can prove some major
technical
> or safety omission <snip>
All quite correct. However, as a Local Government man I must state that
IMHO
most of the general public dont have 2 brain cells to rub together when it
comes to
consultation documents. I have personally delivered leaflets by hand to
whole areas - yet time after time I am faced with people who swear blind
that they never received a thing.
Worse is when I survey roads about traffic measures and barely 5 or 10 % of
people bother to respond. Until those "silly bumps" start to go in........
Its only people like you who take any notice of the leaflets and give me a
challenge !
Seriously though, how much public money do you want to see wasted
consulting the uninterested - perhaps a door to door survey of every road
with road humps planned? That should just about double the cost of every
scheme in the country.
John - joh...@lineone.net
Craig Antill
In article <01bcd04c$fb801b60$0d2f63c3@default>, John Troke
<joh...@lineone.net> writes
>Seriously though, how much public money do you want to see wasted
>consulting the uninterested - perhaps a door to door survey of every road
>with road humps planned?
That sounds about right. It shouldn't take all that long to knock on a
few doors and ask the resident to vote 'yes' or 'no'
>That should just about double the cost of every
>scheme in the country.
Even better, maybe we would not be blighted by the wretched things every
where we go :(
--
Craig Antill - Titan Garden Buildings Ltd
<SHAMELESS PLUG>
The UK's premier manufacturer of quality timber garden buildings!
URL: http://www.titan.uk.com/
</SHAMELESS PLUG>
(All replies to no_spam...@titangb.demon.co.uk will be discarded, unread.
Please reply to craig [at] titan [dot] uk [dot] com if you wish to email me!)
Roland Perry
In article <Blsn9bA6...@titangb.demon.co.uk>, Craig Antill
<no_spam...@titangb.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Seriously though, how much public money do you want to see wasted
>>consulting the uninterested - perhaps a door to door survey of every road
>>with road humps planned?
>
>That sounds about right. It shouldn't take all that long to knock on a
>few doors and ask the resident to vote 'yes' or 'no'
I know this sounds inherently "anti-democratic" but I doubt the average
resident is capable of understanding the pros and cons in order to make
an informed choice, unless he has been exposed to a lengthy debate with
all sides represented. In the village where I lived, when first
approached people were always in favour of speed bumps, until it was
explained that [especially empty] lorries going over them would create a
lot of extra noise. At which point the vote would change to "no".
--
My email address is: | "Time is an illusion.
roland at perry dot co dot uk | Launch times doubly so".
Roland Perry
In article <343919...@unixnerd.demon.co.uk>, John Burns
<jo...@unixnerd.demon.co.uk> writes
>Take a general election, does exposure to "facts" and views make for a
>better vote? People have always been able to vote without being
>competent to, this is called democracy.
When the effects of their vote are quite so close to home as speed bumps
in the road outside, I suspect the average voter would kick himself
harder for voting [what with hindsight proves to be] the "wrong" way,
than if he did so at an election. It's also a single issue, rather than
the muddled basket of policies in an election.
John Troke
Craig Antill <no_spam...@titangb.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<Blsn9bA6...@titangb.demon.co.uk>...
> That sounds about right. It shouldn't take all that long to knock on a
> few doors and ask the resident to vote 'yes' or 'no'
> ..... maybe we would not be blighted by the wretched things every
> where we go :(
>
I have a different solution Craig.
How about no consultation whatsoever - The public are obviously unfit to
judge anyway and should leave it to the professionals.
That way we would save all that wasted money and have twice as many road
hump schemes :)
John
Tony Blews
>> >That sounds about right. It shouldn't take all that long to knock on a
>> >few doors and ask the resident to vote 'yes' or 'no'
>>
>> resident is capable of understanding the pros and cons in order to make
>> an informed choice, unless he has been exposed to a lengthy debate with
>> all sides represented.
>
>better vote? People have always been able to vote without being
>competent to, this is called democracy.
>
Probably not within this thread, but what about those awful speed hump
squares that have started to sprout in warrington?
they are approx 1 meter square, with three of them across the road.
If you drive over them, then you have to drive right up to the center
line, but if you drive in the gaps then you'll scrape the underside of
the car. lovely.
Tony Blews IRD Teleride, IRD House, Austin Friars,
to...@trideuk.demon.co.uk Stafford, England, ST17 4AP
Programmer Tel: +44 1785224242, Fax: +44 1785225552
Craig Antill
In article <W3j6RDA3...@trideuk.demon.co.uk>, Tony Blews
<to...@trideuk.demon.co.uk> writes
>Probably not within this thread, but what about those awful speed hump
>squares that have started to sprout in warrington?
>
>they are approx 1 meter square, with three of them across the road.
>If you drive over them, then you have to drive right up to the center
>line, but if you drive in the gaps then you'll scrape the underside of
>the car. lovely.
>
They are also in widespread use throughout London now :(
I think that they are designed like they are to enable 'safe' passage
for cyclists and to ensure that emergency vehicles such as ambulances do
not lose too much time going up that street. They are also ideal for
nutters in Ford Transits and 7.5 tonners of course :)
Tony Blews
Quoth Craig Antill <no_spam...@titangb.demon.co.uk>:
>In article <W3j6RDA3...@trideuk.demon.co.uk>, Tony Blews
><to...@trideuk.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Probably not within this thread, but what about those awful speed hump
>>squares that have started to sprout in warrington?
>>
>>they are approx 1 meter square, with three of them across the road.
>>If you drive over them, then you have to drive right up to the center
>>line, but if you drive in the gaps then you'll scrape the underside of
>>the car. lovely.
>>
>They are also in widespread use throughout London now :(
>I think that they are designed like they are to enable 'safe' passage
>for cyclists and to ensure that emergency vehicles such as ambulances do
>not lose too much time going up that street. They are also ideal for
>nutters in Ford Transits and 7.5 tonners of course :)
A bit was just done about them on "Speed" on Sky 1.
A plank with a fibreglass custom Escort was on about his car skirts
being smashed off.
While I think he deserves it for driving a stupid looking car, I
object to the Warrington ones which scrape the sump on a Montego
Too faced, ain't I?
--
Tony Blews to...@netlrp.uk.com (autoresponder)
"Michaelangelo saw David in the rock, I look at a bloke like
Kevin Costner and see a peach grub that can fart the
Blue Danube" - Elijah J. Scuggs, "Freaked"
Bill Foote
Dont know about that, but you could benefit from attending
evening classes in English Language
Roland Perry
In article <61csql$5...@axalotl.demon.co.uk>, Hugh Davies <huge@axalotl_n
ospam.demon_nospam.co.uk> writes
>Never mind anti-democratic, it's stunningly arrogant.
No, because my opinion comes from admitting that I was ignorant *myself*
until I became involved in a Parish council meeting on the subject and
learnt:
1) That there *are* disadvantages and
2) That those involved in discussing speed bump scheme with residents
admitted that their experience was that few residents realised there
were disadvantages unless they were pointed out.
Indeed, in our village there were no speed bumps because once educated
the residents realised that the disadvantages outweighed the advantages
(for the particular situation in our village), and consistently voted
against. When newbies like me appeared and immediately assumed that
speed bumps were "the obvious thing to have", we had to be educated out
of it!
Now, back to the original proposition: Democracy is often regarded as a
"good thing", but when people vote without understanding the
consequences, is it still so good?
Tony Blews
In article <343B44C3...@reading.ac.uk>, Bill Foote
<w.d.n...@reading.ac.uk> writes
>Tony Blews wrote:
>
>> Too faced, ain't I?
>>
>Dont know about that, but you could benefit from attending
>evening classes in English Language
No thanks, I aquired my A grade "O Level" quite a while ago.
I think, perhaps, that I should refrain from posting message at home
while I'm 6 cans of Guinness below normal.
Tony.
Tony Blews IRD Teleride, IRD House, Austin Friars,
to...@trideuk.demon.co.uk Stafford, England, ST17 4AP
Programmer Tel: +44 1785224242, Fax: +44 1785225552
"I don't speak for them, they don't speak for me"
Pete Lucas
Tony Blews wrote:
> Probably not within this thread, but what about those awful speed hump
> squares that have started to sprout in warrington?
>
> they are approx 1 meter square, with three of them across the road.
> If you drive over them, then you have to drive right up to the center
> line, but if you drive in the gaps then you'll scrape the underside of
> the car. lovely.
If you've got a car with the right track, you don't have to slow down
at all... happiness is driving over these things at 45MPH in a
Range Rover! [Until you get stuck behind some nerd in a Metro who
travels at walking pace, not only over the bumps, but also over the
200-yard gaps *between* the bumps].
//PJML//
Paul Kettle
In article <876254955.26112.0...@news.demon.co.uk>, Tony
Blews <to...@netlrp.uk.com> writes
>Quoth Craig Antill <no_spam...@titangb.demon.co.uk>:
>
>>In article <W3j6RDA3...@trideuk.demon.co.uk>, Tony Blews
>><to...@trideuk.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>squares that have started to sprout in warrington?
>>>
>>>they are approx 1 meter square, with three of them across the road.
>>>If you drive over them, then you have to drive right up to the center
>>>line, but if you drive in the gaps then you'll scrape the underside of
>>>the car. lovely.
>>>
>
>
>>I think that they are designed like they are to enable 'safe' passage
>>for cyclists and to ensure that emergency vehicles such as ambulances do
>>not lose too much time going up that street. They are also ideal for
>>nutters in Ford Transits and 7.5 tonners of course :)
>
I just drive between then, they dont slow me down at all
Bloody Marvelous
--
Paul Kettle
Alasdair Baxter
In article <amHihcAy...@titangb.demon.co.uk>, Craig Antill
<no_spam...@titangb.demon.co.uk> writes
>I think that they are designed like they are to enable 'safe' passage
>for cyclists and to ensure that emergency vehicles such as ambulances do
>not lose too much time going up that street. They are also ideal for
>nutters in Ford Transits and 7.5 tonners of course :)
And let's not forget the motorbikes, vroom! vroom!