Defunct railway lines
Dave Kennard
>Hi everyone.
>Does anyone here have any info about the history and/or routes of
>old railway lines in and around North London ?
>In particular, I'd like to know about the line from Mill Hill East
>via Mill Hill to Edgware, and the line that was going to be built from
>one of the Edgware stations up to High Barnet.
>If anyone has or can point me to any good sources of information, can they
>please mail me. Cheers, BRIAN (Lightbulb joke collector extraordinaire.)
>BRI...@VAXC.MDX.AC.UK
Don't have an appropriate reference to hand currently: but from memory
your descri0ption of the Northern Line extension (c. 1940) is not quite
correct.
The idea was to build a line from Moorgate to Bushey Heath via Finsbury
Park, Highgate, Finchley (East and Central), Mill Hill East, and Edgeware.
The Moorgate to Finsbury Park section already existed - and is now part
of the Great Northern BR line (taken over from Drayton Pk - Moorgate in
1975). Various other parts of the route can be seen to this day -:
East Finchley to Highgate (high level) - to start of tube tunnel
entrance. The platforms for the high level Highgate still exist - and
can be seen when entering the (existing) Highgate tube station.
East Fincley station has four platforms - the two outer ones are the
lines that run into the present day tunnels (to Archway, Camden and
Central London), the centre pair still do run most of the way to
Highgate High Level, and are used as sidings for the Northern Line.
The trackbed from Mill Hill East to Burnt Oak - at least in part -
can still be identified. Many parts of it have now been built over,
and some bridges built for it in the late '30s have now been removed.
Back in the 1970's when the M1 finished at Fiveways Corner (Mill Hill)
the southbound sliproad into Fiveways' actually ran for a few hundred
yards on the trackbed, and under the A1/A41 through a bridge built
for the tube. That alingnment is still in use as a local road.
The extension from Edgeware to Bushey Heath is still identifiable in
part, including a spectacular viaduct north of Stanmore. The
Aldenham bus maintenance depot was built on the site of what would
have been the Bushey Heath train depot. Recently, Aldenham itself
has closed.
As indicated, most of the infrastructure was complete by 1940, but
work was halted due to the War. It seems a shame that it was never
completed. In part this was due to the creation of the Green Belt
around London after the War. It is ironic that the M25 has done
considerably more damage to the Green belt than the Northern Line
extension ever would have done. :-(
Regards,
----
Dave Kennard d...@bnr.co.uk voice +44 (0)279 405019
"So long, and thanks for all the fish"
Piran Montford
Dave Kennard <d...@bnr.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <353vjp$9...@beta.qmw.ac.uk>
>>Does anyone here have any info about the history and/or routes of
>>old railway lines in and around North London ?
>your descri0ption of the Northern Line extension (c. 1940) is not quite
>correct.
My dad's cousin used to be head of the GLC. She told me about this tunnel
they dug and then abandoned for the Northern Line.
She said that the tunnel they dug is now full of filing cabinets, holding all
the old records of the GLC. Apparently there's something like half a mile of
them down there.
Always reminds me of one of the openning shot from the Prisoner.
BCNU, Piran.
--
-----------------------------------------------------
"If you really want an accident to happen...
Wearing clean underwear is not always enough." - Me.
Piran Montford <pi...@parallax.co.uk>
Clive D.W. Feather
>> via Mill Hill to Edgware, and the line that was going to be built from
>> one of the Edgware stations up to High Barnet.
> Don't have an appropriate reference to hand currently: but from memory
> your descri0ption of the Northern Line extension (c. 1940) is not quite
> correct.
Nor, I'm afraid is yours.
The following was written by Mark Brader and myself (and probably still
needs some cleaning up).
* (City of London and Southwark Subway) -> City and South London
Railway -> City Railway; Charing Cross, Euston and Hampstead Railway
-> Hampstead and Highgate Railway; -> Edgware, Highgate and Morden
Line -> Morden-Edgware Line -> Northern Line.
What is now the "City Branch", plus the southern portion of the
Northern Line, descend from the City and South London Railway; this
was independent until acquired by the Yerkes group in 1913, and was
then known for a time as the City Railway. What is now the "Charing
Cross Branch", plus the northern portions of the Northern Line, descend
from the Charing Cross, Euston, and Hampstead Railway, which was bought
by the Yerkes group during construction, and was later known for a time
as the Hampstead and Highgate. The two lines were integrated in the
1920s, but they did not get a single name at first. When they did, the
name was first Edgware, Highgate and Morden Line; then Morden-Edgware
Line; and finally Northern Line.
The C&SL, ran from King William Street (near the present Bank) to
Clapham, and eventually Morden. During construction it was called
the City of London and Southwark Subway (not Railway). It was the
first deep-level tube railway in the world, and construction was
well advanced by the time that the company decided to use electric
locomotives on the trains, rather than cable haulage. They also
chose a rather small diameter tunnel, as little as 3.1 m diameter in
places. (The straighter part was going to use a faster-moving cable
and was made 3.2 m diameter to allow for extra sway of the trains.)
The original electrification used a power rail near, but not at, the
centerline of the track.
The line was entirely in tube (though some sources claim that the KWS
terminus was on the surface). At KWS there was originally a single
track with a platform on each side; this was converted to a double
track and an island, to help relieve congestion, and then the station
was abandoned altogether as soon as possible.
When the line was extended north, KWS was closed and a new river
crossing was made; for some reason the tubes roll over each other to
provide right-hand running through London Bridge and Bank. The tubes
eventually extended to Euston, where they are aligned east-west. At
the southern end, the tube emerges at Morden station, which is in
cutting, with a surface depot beyond. At Kings Cross there is a
single-track tube link to the Piccadilly; the only way off this line.
The CCE&H, or the Hampstead for short, line was a standard Yerkes tube
from Charing Cross to a junction (in tube) south of Camden Town;
the two branches have their own (connected) stations north of the
junction. The eastern branch was tube to the terminus at what is now
Archway, while the western emerges at the south end of Golders Green
station; this branch saw some non-stop running, and formerly had loops
at Brent station for a stopped train to be overtaken by a non-stopper.
There is also a tunnel north of Hendon Central station.
The line was later extended; the southbound track curved southeast
from Charing Cross, turned round under the river, and lined up with
the northbound underwater; a single platform was built on the straight
northbound at Embankment. [I use the present names to avoid confusion;
there have been many station renamings in this district.]
When the two companies were merged, it was decided to link the lines
at both ends. To the south, the loop was sealed off and filled with
rubble (this section was flooded during World War 2 due to a bomb
hit; the only river tunnel that was flooded !). Then a new southbound
line was driven through the rubble and onwards.
Meanwhile the C&SL line was enlarged to become a standard Yerkes tube.
On the original, southern portion of the line, the company attempted
to enlarge a section of tunnel each night while operating trains by
day, but a misjudgement at the end of one night's work led to the
street above the tunnel slowly collapsing into it during the day.
That became the last day the C&SL's electric locomotives ran; the line
was shut down until the enlargement was done.
At Kennington, the CCE&H southbound track dives under the C&SL, and
there are two island platforms. Southbound CCE&H trains can then
cross over to the C&SL, or run round a large loop under the C&SL and
back into the northern CCE&H platform through a corresponding
crossover. Thus trains on this branch could terminate at Kennington,
but not those via Bank; more recently a central siding was built to
allow the latter to also do so.
At the northern end, the C&SL track was extended under the CCE&H,
then in a large curve round to the existing Camden Town junctions.
There is then a complex interweaving of tubes to allow any movements
simultaneously; I won't attempt to draw it, but the easiest way to
visualize it is to say that no matter where it came from or is going
to, each train first sees a facing junction for its two alternative
destinations, followed by a trailing junction with the track from the
other origin.
* Great Northern and City Railway -> Northern City Line -> Northern
Line Highbury Branch -> BR GN Electrics
The company was affiliated to the Great Northern Railway and the
original intent of the line was the same as its present use: to
carry main-line trains off the Great Northern main line. The tubes
were accordingly made with diameter 4.88 m; the were originally
intended to run from Moorgate to just south of Finsbury Park where
the GNR station would be used. The GNR then withdrew its cooperation
and the company was forced to build an tube station at Finsbury Park
as well.
The line was then bought by the Metropolitan Railway, and then later
redesignated as a branch of the Northern Line, whose name changed at
some point. Stock was was moved on and off the line by a single-track
link to Finsbury Park goods yard, thence using battery locos via a
very circuitous route to Neasden depot.
The line was originally electrified on a unique system with outside
power rails on both sides, one positive and one negative. This was
possible since there was no way to turn a train on the line around.
It was eventually converted to the standard inherited from Yerkes.
In the 1960s, the Finsbury Park station was transferred to the new
Victoria Line, making Drayton Park the new terminus. But in the 1970s,
a new section of tube connected Drayton Park with the BR station on
the surface at Finsbury Park, and the line was transferred to BR and
put to its original use only 75 years late.
The LNER had a branch off of the main line at Finsbury Park via a
flying junction, then northwest, with one arm then going northeast to
Alexandra Palace, the other continuing via Finchley to Edgware, with
another branch to High Barnet. In the later 1930s, as part of the
same programme that extended the Central Line (the "New Works
Programme" started after London Transport was formed), it was
proposed to transfer all these lines to the Northern Line. The
arrangement would then have been:
- existing routes from Morden via Charing Cross and Bank to Camden Town;
- the western arm extended on the surface to Edgware, meeting the LNER line;
- the eastern arm extended via Highgate (in tube), then emerging around the
LNER tracks south of East Finchley;
- the Moorgate line extended from Drayton Park to the main-line station at
Finsbury Park (outside the LNER tracks on either side), then taking
over the three LNER branches;
- the line from Edgware extended to Aldenham and Bushey Heath, near Watford.
Though almost all this work was completed (fourth rail was laid from
Finsbury Park to Finchley, and the Bushey Heath formation was laid),
World War 2 intervened. The line beyond Edgware was abandoned, and
the Finchley to Edgware section was cut back to Mill Hill East. LU
took over that and the High Barnet branch, but the Alexandra Palace
branch and the link to Finsbury Park were abandoned, leading to the
layout we see today. The branch to Mill Hill East is now single
track, and there is no link to BR; indeed, there are no BR lines in
the area.
A brief diagram of the planned Northern Line:
A
H----\ \
\ \
B----------D--------L--F-Y-*-------P-----O--M
\ \ /O--M------\
\ \-----\ /R\ / \
\ C E \
\-----------G-----/ \-/ \--------X-----K--------N
and the present Northern Line and BR line:
A
H----\
\
B D L--F-Y P=====O==M
\ \ /O--M------\
\ \-----\ /R\ / \
\ C E \
\-----------G-----/ \-/ \--------X-----K--------N
A = Alexandra Palace
B = Bushey Heath
C = Camden Town
D = Edgware
E = Euston
F = Finchley Central
G = Golders Green
H = High Barnet
K = Kennington
L = Mill Hill East
M = Moorgate
N = Morden
O = Old Street
P = Finsbury Park
R = Mornington Crescent (I win !)
X = Charing Cross
Y = East Finchley
--
Clive D.W. Feather | Santa Cruz Operation | If you lie to the compiler,
cl...@sco.com | Croxley Centre | it will get its revenge.
Phone: +44 1923 813541 | Hatters Lane, Watford | - Henry Spencer
Fax: +44 1923 813811 | WD1 8YN, United Kingdom | <= NOTE: NEW PHONE NUMBERS
Mark Brader
> The following was written by Mark Brader and myself (and probably still
> needs some cleaning up).
It does; it wasn't originally written for posting to the net. Since
Clive only posted the part that was about the Northern Line, I should
explain a couple of things that were defined earlier in the text.
First, "the company" is used as a short form for "the company that
originally built the line".
And second, a "standard Yerkes tube" had a tunnel diameter of 11'8.25"
(3.56 m), and the track was electrified with a negative central rail 1.5
inches (4 cm) above the running rails, and a positive outside rail 3 inches
(about 8 cm) above, and 15 inches (40 cm) outside, one running rail.
The Yerkes power rail arrangement and the loading gauge became the
standards for the whole Underground. The nominal voltages on the power
rails today are +440 and -220 V, or +660 and 0 V where the same tracks are
used by 3rd-rail BR trains. New tunnels, starting with the Victoria Line,
have been made 12 feet (3.66 m) in diameter, reducing the air resistance.
The other tunnel diameters mentioned were also, of course, really specified
in feet and inches; thus for 3.1, 3.2, and 4.88 m respectively read 10'2",
10'6", and 16 feet.
And a couple of corrections in the part that I contributed that Clive
pointed out to me, but apparently didn't make in the text.
> The line was entirely in tube (though some sources claim that the KWS
> terminus was on the surface).
The terminus was in the basement of a building, neither in tube nor on
the surface.
> The [GN&CR] tubes were ... originally
> intended to run from Moorgate to just south of Finsbury Park where
> the GNR station would be used.
As Clive pointed out to me, Drayton Park station is on the surface.
When the terminus was moved underground at Finsbury Park, the additional
tunnel segment was separate from the other one.
> In the 1960s, the Finsbury Park station was transferred to the new
> Victoria Line, making Drayton Park the new terminus. But in the 1970s,
> a new section of tube connected Drayton Park with the BR station on
> the surface at Finsbury Park, and the line was transferred to BR and
> put to its original use only 75 years late.
Not tube, but surface track.
--
Mark Brader, m...@sq.com | "A good programmer is someone who looks both ways
SoftQuad Inc., Toronto | before crossing a one-way street." -- Doug Linder
Speed Freak
>>>Does anyone here have any info about the history and/or routes of
>>>old railway lines in and around North London ?
>>Don't have an appropriate reference to hand currently: but from memory
>>your descri0ption of the Northern Line extension (c. 1940) is not quite
>>correct.
>My dad's cousin used to be head of the GLC. She told me about this tunnel
>they dug and then abandoned for the Northern Line.
>She said that the tunnel they dug is now full of filing cabinets, holding all
>the old records of the GLC. Apparently there's something like half a mile of
>them down there.
>Always reminds me of one of the openning shot from the Prisoner.
The book 'London Under London' is all about 'things', mostly tunnels and
old tube lines under London. It is quite interesting. It even gives you
some entry points to old tube stations. They must look like time capsules
with all the old ads &c.
Ian
--
"Fortune is a woman and if she is to be submissive it is necessary to beat
and coerce her." -- Niccolo Machiavelli
Ian Crocker i...@btcase.bt.co.uk
Ian G Batten
Clive D.W. Feather <cl...@sco.com> wrote:
> Though almost all this work was completed (fourth rail was laid from
> Finsbury Park to Finchley, and the Bushey Heath formation was laid),
> World War 2 intervened. The line beyond Edgware was abandoned, and
> the Finchley to Edgware section was cut back to Mill Hill East. LU
The section to Mill Hill was built to support the nearby barracks, I
believe.
ian