Old Bus Companies On Tyneside
Bri Dafter
Since my last post caused a bit of a stir (and a different topic
altogether), i've got another question.
I've been looking around on the Internet, at buses around the Tyneside from
my childhood (around the late 80's), and in particular the companies.
Now, the way i've seen this as, and please correct me if i'm missing
anything or am wrong completely!
At the first, there were various bus companies, which were algamated into
Tyne and Wear PTE in the 70's, then were deregulated some time in the 80's
(must of been before 1987, I can't remember seeing any of these PTE buses),
and were sold on to different people and companies.
Now, there was a bus comapny called Northern during this time, which
operated south of the Tyne and into County Durham. Why were these not
algamated into the PTE, or were some of them, and the Co. Durham buses left
as the Northern red?
Also, on old pictures, there was what looked like an old National Express
symbol next to the name. I've looked at another one near Brighton, called
Southdown, i think. This had exactly the same livery, typeface, and the NX
logo. Were these bus companies owned by NX at one point, and why did they
sell the companies? Does this have anything to do with the current National
Express?
Also, are Northern, and Go Ahead Northern (now Go Northern and Go Gateshead,
part of the Go Ahead Group) the same company? The way I'm led to believe it
was that when the PTE was deregulated, what was Northern bought the
Gateshead area's buses, and called it Go Ahead Northern.
I'm trying to piece together rather confusing things here, and any help
would be greatly apreiciated.
Thanks in advance
Bri, Gateshead
cookie
"Bri Dafter" <brid...@geordie123.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bs003f$qbc$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Hi all
>
> Since my last post caused a bit of a stir (and a different topic
> altogether), i've got another question.
>
> I've been looking around on the Internet, at buses around the Tyneside
from
> my childhood (around the late 80's), and in particular the companies.
>
> Now, the way i've seen this as, and please correct me if i'm missing
> anything or am wrong completely!
>
> At the first, there were various bus companies, which were algamated into
> Tyne and Wear PTE in the 70's, then were deregulated some time in the 80's
> (must of been before 1987, I can't remember seeing any of these PTE
buses),
> and were sold on to different people and companies.
Degregulation day in Greater Manchester was 23rd October 1986, not sure if
it was nationwide on that date, 'cos I think NBC companies were "sold-off"
later than that.
>
> Now, there was a bus comapny called Northern during this time, which
> operated south of the Tyne and into County Durham. Why were these not
> algamated into the PTE, or were some of them, and the Co. Durham buses
left
> as the Northern red?
Some companies remained separate when the metropolitan counties were created
like Tyne & Wear, because the company (in this case Northern) served a large
"rural/semi-urban" area outside the true "urban" area. I think mostly
"Corporation/Council" type companies got put into the metropolitan county
bus companies, whereas those privately owned (such as West Riding, North
Western, etc.) were "traditional" NBC companies. A confusing situation
occured in West Yorkshire, where there was "MetroBus", which was the
metropolitan council and the NBC companies (Yorkshire Traction, West Riding,
West Yorks Road Car) which then decided to set up a joint undertaking with
common logos.
>
> Also, on old pictures, there was what looked like an old National Express
> symbol next to the name. I've looked at another one near Brighton, called
> Southdown, i think. This had exactly the same livery, typeface, and the NX
> logo. Were these bus companies owned by NX at one point, and why did they
> sell the companies? Does this have anything to do with the current
National
> Express?
National Express was originally run by the traditional NBC companies, each
showing their "local" name on the side of the National Express branding.
The double arrow NX logo was originally the NBC logo.
>
> Also, are Northern, and Go Ahead Northern (now Go Northern and Go
Gateshead,
> part of the Go Ahead Group) the same company? The way I'm led to believe
it
> was that when the PTE was deregulated, what was Northern bought the
> Gateshead area's buses, and called it Go Ahead Northern.
>
> I'm trying to piece together rather confusing things here, and any help
> would be greatly apreiciated.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
Apologies if any of the above is incorrect!
mkbooks
Hope this throw a bit light on the subject.....................
Hope it helps.
Melvyn 20-12-03
"Bri Dafter" <brid...@geordie123.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bs003f$qbc$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Hi all
>
> Since my last post caused a bit of a stir (and a different topic
> altogether), i've got another question.
>
> I've been looking around on the Internet, at buses around the Tyneside
from
> my childhood (around the late 80's), and in particular the companies.
>
> Now, the way i've seen this as, and please correct me if i'm missing
> anything or am wrong completely!
>
> At the first, there were various bus companies, which were algamated into
> Tyne and Wear PTE in the 70's, then were deregulated some time in the 80's
> (must of been before 1987, I can't remember seeing any of these PTE
buses),
> and were sold on to different people and companies.
====================
PTE Service (armed lenght owned) was Newcastle busways and Blue bus
Services
these were acquired by Act of parliament on Local Governement
Re-orginzation
in 1973/4. Since then they have been sold to Stagecoach and now form
Stagecoach
North East
=====================
> Now, there was a bus comapny called Northern during this time, which
> operated south of the Tyne and into County Durham. Why were these not
> algamated into the PTE, or were some of them, and the Co. Durham buses
left
> as the Northern red?
=====================
Northern General Ominbuses was Nationalized in l948 by the Atlee
Government
under its Transport Act,it had been in effect run by the state since
1941 as a
wartime measure. All Nationalized business were owned by BET (Now
trading
as Intial) and Thomas Tillings (became part of the Macmillian empire
in l950s after
buses were sold). These business in effect carried on theiro wn way
until the 1968
Transport Act formed the National Bus Company (I memories of the Tv
advert
for launch all the buses on an airfield in their colours being
turned overnight on screen
in Red or Green which were the two chosen NBC colours). As part of
1986 Transport
Act the state sold off Northern General will all other NBC
operations. Northern General
was sold to its mangament and formed the now Go-Ahead Group
Northern General under NBC Control was totally independent of the
PTE however
as provided the cash for contracts and OAP Travel schemes they had
to do what they
asked for. Delgrulationday was same everywhere although Services
registred on
26th October 1986 couldn't be changed by law until 25th January 1987
therafter at
42 days notice to the Traffic Commissioners.
===================================
>
> Also, on old pictures, there was what looked like an old National Express
> symbol next to the name. I've looked at another one near Brighton, called
> Southdown, i think. This had exactly the same livery, typeface, and the NX
> logo. Were these bus companies owned by NX at one point, and why did they
> sell the companies? Does this have anything to do with the current
National
> Express?
> ===================================
National Express was a corporate livery established to get some
sense of
order into long distance coaching and it acquired a few like Royal
Blue
and black/White in the meantime. Until Transport Act 1980 the
services
were higly regulated by the Trafiic Courts with a lot of silly
restrictions
which today would be not be tolerated. The National Express group
was
operated under the National Products Limited business alonmg with
the
Green Line name which was acquired in 1970 from London Transport.
1980 saw the freeing up of restrictions and allowing them to run a
better
service. Various NBC companies operated a "diagram" for National
Express
under contract and this is why Southdown found it way to Tyneside
on a
Diagram working or as a relief working.
The Current National Express is a mangament buyout from NBC but
has
undergone several changes of people at the top. Some former NBC
operations no longer do National Express work as coaching was not
a
big money earner.
Southdown run south coast operations from Rye to Portsmouth
although
Rye/Hasting area was spilt up by NBC into Hastings and
District.the Bexhill
area was Maidstone and District (later Bexhill Nus Co), then
Eastbourne
area of East Suusex and
Littlehampton/Worthing/Arundel/Chichester/Hayling
Island/Portsmouth area became Southdown motor Services,the
Brighton and
Hove was spilt into a stand alone called Brighton and Hove and now
owned
by Go-Ahead
========================================
> Also, are Northern, and Go Ahead Northern (now Go Northern and Go
Gateshead,
> part of the Go Ahead Group) the same company?
Yes the orginal company set but BET or Tillings which has now
become
the go Ahead you know. Their Head office in NBC time was Queen
Street
Gateshead however l cannot tell you about the time before 1968
Tillings produced a tribute to its staff and bus operations just
before it was
Nationalized "War on Wheels" which covered Tillings operations
during the
war including the Gas bus to save petrol and other diesel/petrol
saving ideas.
=======================================
The way I'm led to believe it
> was that when the PTE was deregulated, what was Northern bought the
> Gateshead area's buses, and called it Go Ahead Northern.
PTE has never been deregulated it now called NEXUS however it owns
no buses as the state forced all Council/state owned remaining
buses
operations in the early 1990s to be sold or the staff excluded
from the
Local Governement Pension scheme (One of the penalties) and no
money for new buses (Hit Hartlepool Transport hard that one) and
no
borrowing from local government coffers. This where Stagecoach
got in on the act.
Paul Corfield
<brid...@geordie123.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi all
>
>Since my last post caused a bit of a stir (and a different topic
>altogether), i've got another question.
>
>I've been looking around on the Internet, at buses around the Tyneside from
>my childhood (around the late 80's), and in particular the companies.
>
>Now, the way i've seen this as, and please correct me if i'm missing
>anything or am wrong completely!
>
>At the first, there were various bus companies, which were algamated into
>Tyne and Wear PTE in the 70's, then were deregulated some time in the 80's
>(must of been before 1987, I can't remember seeing any of these PTE buses),
>and were sold on to different people and companies.
You need to make a distinction between the bus companies that were owned
by local councils (corporation buses) and those that were state owned
and became part of the National Bus Company.
The PTE took over the operations of Newcastle Corporation, South Shields
Corporation and Sunderland Corporation. All of these buses were
(eventually) painted yellow and cream / white (depending on the livery
of choice at the time). The old South Shields and Sunderland
corporations had different liveries.
As a result of historical route development - particularly across the
river tyne - there was an established practice of interworking between
Corporation buses and those of Northern and its subsidiaries (Gateshead,
Tyneside, Sunderland and District, Venture). Gateshead buses were green,
Tyneside were red, Sunderland and District were Blue and Venture were
Yellow. Northern slowly removed all traces of these small subsidiaries
and everything became Northern General and painted red (as required by
the National Bus Company).
Therefore some routes within the conurbations were run by the PTE
directly and others were run by National Bus Company companies (Northern
and United). It was rare for a PTE owned bus to run on a route that
reached another part of the area where PTE buses ran - e.g. a PTE bus
from say Byker depot would never run on a route that went to South
Shields or Sunderland. Northern General and United provided the longer
distance services between the big towns. The one exception concerned the
link between Sunderland and South Shields - South Shields PTE depot ran
a service between the two towns as did Northern General but over
different route corridors. That practice remains today.
During the early 1980s the Tyne and Wear Metro was introduced and this
led to a redesign of the local network to provide integrated services.
What is also did was end a lot of historical practice of interworking,
cross river services and traditional areas of operation for Northern and
United. Routes were swapped over between companies and many changes
followed. Also a more determined effort was made to paint all buses run
from depots in Tyne and Wear in the PTE Livery. This meant to the layman
it was difficult to tell what bus belonged to what company.
>Now, there was a bus comapny called Northern during this time, which
>operated south of the Tyne and into County Durham. Why were these not
>algamated into the PTE, or were some of them, and the Co. Durham buses left
>as the Northern red?
For those depots that were outside of Tyne and Wear the PTE had no
jurisdiction over livery or service levels so the buses from these
depots had buses that were painted red. There was an odd exception in
that some United buses from Blyth depot were Yellow because they ran on
the 308 Newcastle to Blyth route that was nearly all in the PTE area!
You would see red buses in Tyne and Wear because there were quite a lot
of busy routes that served Newcastle from Northumberland, County Durham
and even Cumbria.
We then get to deregulation where all the good work of the PTE in
integrating routes began to unravel.
The PTE buses were transferred to an "arms length" company initially
called "PTE Buses". This then became Busways and was bought out by its
employees. The routes and depots stayed pretty much the same and there
was no great push to expand into Northern or United territory.
Eventually Busways sold out to Stagecoach who still run the buses.
Both United and Northern General were part of the National Bus Company
and government decreed that the NBC be broken up and sold off to provide
competitive units. United was broken up into Northumbria (routes to the
North and West of Newcastle) and United (routes south of Newcastle in
County Durham). Northern General was sold off in one piece as it was
comparatively small when put against United.
United and Northumbria went through various ownership changes but are
now both part of Arriva.
>Also, are Northern, and Go Ahead Northern (now Go Northern and Go Gateshead,
>part of the Go Ahead Group) the same company? The way I'm led to believe it
>was that when the PTE was deregulated, what was Northern bought the
>Gateshead area's buses, and called it Go Ahead Northern.
Northern General went on the expansion path and bought Oxford Bus
Company and Brighton and Hove. It also purchased London General and
London Central and has latterly added Metrobus and Wilts and Dorset too.
Much to my disappointment they also took over OK Travel who were a long
established and growing competitor. It also moved into Trains and
Aviation Support Services. The parent company is Go Ahead Group.
>Also, on old pictures, there was what looked like an old National Express
>symbol next to the name. I've looked at another one near Brighton, called
>Southdown, i think. This had exactly the same livery, typeface, and the NX
>logo. Were these bus companies owned by NX at one point, and why did they
>sell the companies? Does this have anything to do with the current National
>Express?
The National Express "double N" symbol was used on all National Bus
Company buses. It was also used on the National Express brand which was
applied to coaches running all over the country. You need to separate
National Bus Company which owned lots of companies from National
Express. NBC was broken up and sold off. National Express was turned
into a separate company at this time and also sold off to look after the
nationwide coach network. It then bought Travel West Midlands and at one
point owned United (!) but it also bought lots of the train franchises
and that is what is best known for these days.
>I'm trying to piece together rather confusing things here, and any help
>would be greatly apreiciated.
Well you did pick one of the most involved counties for working out what
happened with the PTE and NBC Companies! I hope the info is helpful.
--
Paul C
Admits to working for London Underground!
Martin Clark
>in Red or Green which were the two chosen NBC colours
....apart from the small number of NBC companies who adopted a blue
colour scheme.
--
Martin Clark
David Farrier
----- Original Message -----
From: cookie <charles...@nthellworld.com>
Newsgroups: uk.transport.buses
Sent: 19 December 2003 23:43
Subject: Re: Old Bus Companies On Tyneside
>
>
> Degregulation day in Greater Manchester was 23rd October 1986, not sure if
> it was nationwide on that date, 'cos I think NBC companies were "sold-off"
> later than that.
D-Day was 26/10/1986 throughout England, Scotland & Wales, excluding London.
This was called Deregulation.
The NBC companies were sold off over a period of time.
This was called Privatisation.
Deregulation and Privatisation were two different events that took place
close together.
>
> >
> > Now, there was a bus comapny called Northern during this time, which
> > operated south of the Tyne and into County Durham. Why were these not
> > algamated into the PTE, or were some of them, and the Co. Durham buses
> left
> > as the Northern red?
>
Northern General was owned by the NBC, but certain buses within the PTE area
(Tyne & Wear) were "dressed up" in PTE yellow.
A similar dressing up occured in West Yorkshire using green with Metrobus
logos.
On Merseyside, the only external changes were that Ribble and Crosville
buses from Merseyside depots gained the MPTE "spider" logo.
Regards
Dave Farrier
David Farrier
mkbooks <mkb...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:bs171t$7nc$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
> Hope this throw a bit light on the subject.....................
> Hope it helps.
> Melvyn 20-12-03
>
> PTE Service (armed lenght owned) was Newcastle busways and Blue bus
> Services
> these were acquired by Act of parliament on Local Governement
> Re-orginzation
> in 1973/4. Since then they have been sold to Stagecoach and now
form
> Stagecoach
> North East
> =====================
No.
Tyne & Wear PTE was formed in 01/01/1970, combining Newcastle & South
Shields Corporations.
Sunderland Corp was added on 01/04/1973 at the founding of the Metropolitan
County of T&W.
On this date, the PTE responsibilty passed to the new county.
> =====================
> Northern General Ominbuses was Nationalized in l948 by the Atlee
> Government
> under its Transport Act,it had been in effect run by the state
since
> 1941 as a
> wartime measure. All Nationalized business were owned by BET (Now
> trading
> as Intial) and Thomas Tillings (became part of the Macmillian
empire
> in l950s after
> buses were sold). These business in effect carried on theiro wn
way
> until the 1968
> Transport Act formed the National Bus Company (I memories of the
Tv
> advert
> ===================================
>
No.
Northern General was owned by BET which was not nationalised until
01/01/1969.
It was the THC companies that were nationalised with the railways back in
1947/48.
The BET and THC empires were merged into the NBC on 01/01/1969.
> ========================================
>
> > Also, are Northern, and Go Ahead Northern (now Go Northern and Go
> Gateshead,
> > part of the Go Ahead Group) the same company?
>
> Yes the orginal company set but BET or Tillings which has now
> become
> the go Ahead you know. Their Head office in NBC time was Queen
> Street
> Gateshead however l cannot tell you about the time before 1968
>
> Tillings produced a tribute to its staff and bus operations
just
> before it was
> Nationalized "War on Wheels" which covered Tillings operations
> during the
> war including the Gas bus to save petrol and other
diesel/petrol
> saving ideas.
>
> =======================================
No.
Northern General were never anything to do with Tillings/THC.
>
> The way I'm led to believe it
> > was that when the PTE was deregulated, what was Northern bought the
> > Gateshead area's buses, and called it Go Ahead Northern.
No.
The Gateshead area buses were already owned by NG.
>
> PTE has never been deregulated it now called NEXUS
Only London escaped deregulation, so I don't understand the above.
Newcastle has seen many deregulate bus services.
Regards
Dave Farrier
RELL6G
writes
ITYF the blue scheme was only experimental (I think midnight blue was
the precise shade), only a handful of Midland General (to name one
company who used it) vehicles carried the livery before being repainted
poppy red.
A shame really as the cream glazing rubber then used on Eastern
Coachworks bodies stood out very well on the blue scheme.
--
RELL6G
For emails change nospam to bcvr
Proper buses at http://www.typetwo.fsnet.co.uk/bristol1.html
Paul Corfield
wrote:
>In article <Zhn3diPnQE5$Ew...@oooah.noooah>, Martin Clark <mar...@spl.at>
>writes
>>mkbooks wrote...
>>
>>>in Red or Green which were the two chosen NBC colours
>>
>>....apart from the small number of NBC companies who adopted a blue
>>colour scheme.
>
>ITYF the blue scheme was only experimental (I think midnight blue was
>the precise shade), only a handful of Midland General (to name one
>company who used it) vehicles carried the livery before being repainted
>poppy red.
err and a number of Sunderland and District vehicles before it was fully
absorbed by Northern.
--
Paul C
Bri Dafter
Hi all.
Thanks for all the info you gave me.
I never knew Northumbria was originally part of United!
So, i'm guessing that......
Newcastle Corporation Transport, Venture (West Gateshead and Newcastle),
Gateshead, South Shields and Sunderland Corporations all alagamated into
Tyne and Wear PTE, in the same time when Tyne and Wear became a Metropolitan
County in the 70's.
United (which from the South of Co. Durham, and all of Northumberland), and
Northern (Co. Durham), with all other Bus Companies in England were
alagamated into the National Bus Company (NBC) at the same time in the 70's.
In the late 80's, all services, PTE and NBC, were deregulated. Northern was
bought by it's management, which also bought the 'franchises' from all the
areas south of the Tyne and North Tyneside from the PTE, and became Go Ahead
Northern, which became the Go Ahead Group we all know.
Newcastle's was bought by it's employees, which became Busways (i've got
fond memories of Busways :)), which was took over by Stagecoach.
United's area was split into Northumbria, for Northumberland, and United,
for Co. Durham. These changed hands a number of times, and ended up in the
hands of Arriva, the company I love so much!
Just one more question. During the NBC era, I know that the various
'franchises' had names, Northern was one of them. Was United used as one?
Also, was Northumbria used as a name, or did that name only came about after
deregulation?
Thanks a lot!
Bri
Gateshead
Martin Clark
>United (which from the South of Co. Durham, and all of Northumberland), and
>Northern (Co. Durham), with all other Bus Companies in England were
>alagamated into the National Bus Company (NBC) at the same time in the 70's.
Certainly not "all other bus companies in England". Apart from the
municipal bus companies, some of which were absorbed into PTEs and some
of which retained their individual identities, there were many
independent bus companies which remained independent, the prime example
in the north east being OK Travel.
--
Martin Clark
Paul Corfield
<brid...@geordie123.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
><snip>
>
>Hi all.
>
>Thanks for all the info you gave me.
>
>I never knew Northumbria was originally part of United!
>
>So, i'm guessing that......
>
>Newcastle Corporation Transport, Venture (West Gateshead and Newcastle),
>Gateshead, South Shields and Sunderland Corporations all alagamated into
>Tyne and Wear PTE, in the same time when Tyne and Wear became a Metropolitan
>County in the 70's.
Not quite.
Newcastle Corporation and South Shields Corporation became Tyneside PTE
in 1972 (I have a route map from that time!).
Sunderland Corporation was added later (1974 IICR) to make it Tyne and
Wear PTE. The PTE had both planning, fares and operational roles. The
operational bit ran the buses that were formally the Corporation bus
fleets. Much later it added the Metro to its operation alongside the
North Shields - South Shields Ferry.
Gateshead and Venture were subsidiaries of Northern General Transport.
Northern was part of the National Bus Company. It, like United, ran
services under agreement for the PTE who had a planning responsibility
for the whole bus and rail network in Tyne and Wear.
Tyne and Wear was very unusual as a PTE area because the NBC companies
had fleets in the county that were broadly the same size as the PTE
fleets. Therefore a decision was taken to allow the NBC companies to
retain their routes, buses and garages. This was in marked contrast to
what happened in some of the other Metropolitan Counties where big parts
of NBC fleets were absorbed into the PTE bus fleets leaving just a rump
of "cross boundary" services that ran from bordering shire counties into
the Metropolitan County area.
>United (which from the South of Co. Durham, and all of Northumberland), and
>Northern (Co. Durham), with all other Bus Companies in England were
>alagamated into the National Bus Company (NBC) at the same time in the 70's.
They were companies in their own right but were ultimately owned by the
State via the National Bus Company. It would be wrong to say they were
amalgamated into the NCB because it implies that there was just one
company right across England and Wales and that was demonstrably not the
case!
>In the late 80's, all services, PTE and NBC, were deregulated. Northern was
>bought by it's management, which also bought the 'franchises' from all the
>areas south of the Tyne and North Tyneside from the PTE, and became Go Ahead
>Northern, which became the Go Ahead Group we all know.
26th October 1986 was deregulation day. There were no franchises to
buy. Companies were (are) free to run wherever they wish in competition
with other operators. The reality of the situation is that the big
companies that were in existence at Deregulation - Busways (newcastle,
South Shields, Sunderland), United (Co Durham), Northern (North
Tyneside, South Tyneside (part), Sunderland (part), County Durham) and
Northumbria (parts of Newcastle and Northumberland) all kept to pretty
much their own areas of operation.
Tyne and Wear and the North East were very good bus territory and
therefore it was madness for the companies to go into open war with each
other. They all had far too much to lose - the record of deregulation is
that the big companies typically win. Sometimes they drop the less
profitable parts of their network thus allowing a lower cost operator to
take over and develop their business. This is what happened with OK
Travel - who were well established and a very good private operator.
Northern let some of their routes around Sunderland and Houghton le
Spring go and OK Travel got them on tender. They then built the routes
up, took them over commercially and got a big toehold in that part of
the region. They did a similar trick with tendered routes in Newcastle
(44B), Northumberland (684) and Gateshead (88,89 and 90). This allowed
them to grow a decent operation within Tyne and Wear which they never
had prior to deregulation. Unfortunately Go Ahead Northern realised
their mistake and waved a big cheque at the owners of OK Travel and took
them over. A sad loss.
There were plenty of other more "cowboy" operators who were tempted into
the North East to give the established companies a run for their money.
Some were truly awful while others weren't so bad and have survived
through to the current day but still on a smallish scale. There were
notable challenges from Trimdon Motor Services who set up Tyne and Wear
Omnibus Company (TWOC) to challenge the best of Busways' routes. This
was run with lots of Bristol LH buses. Eventually they were run off the
road when Northern bought the company and then sold it to Busways within
2 hours or so. Not unsurprisingly Busways closed TWOC down!
>Newcastle's was bought by it's employees, which became Busways (i've got
>fond memories of Busways :)), which was took over by Stagecoach.
Correct.
>United's area was split into Northumbria, for Northumberland, and United,
>for Co. Durham. These changed hands a number of times, and ended up in the
>hands of Arriva, the company I love so much!
Correct
>Just one more question. During the NBC era, I know that the various
>'franchises' had names, Northern was one of them. Was United used as one?
>Also, was Northumbria used as a name, or did that name only came about after
>deregulation?
There were not franchises. They were separate companies - see my
explanation above.
Northumbria was the visible name for a company called Proudmutual.
Proudmutual bought what was London Country South East which was renamed
Kentish Bus. Kentish Bus ran buses in Kent and also contracted routes
for London Regional Transport. We thereby ended up with former London
Country Leyland National buses running for Northumbria while Olympians
from Newcastle ran on the 96 from Woolwich to Dartford when Kentish Bus
won the contract for that route. All good fun.
>Thanks a lot!
No problem
--
Paul C
Bri Dafter
It seems really wierd that OK Travel was allowed to operate without having
to be under the NBC name.
I didn't try to imply that the areas were franchises. I couldn't think of
the word to describe it! :)
That clears up a lot to me. I'm asking all this because i need to do a bit
of local history research for College, and i was curious too :)
Thanks again, and Merry Christmas to all!
Bri
Gateshead
Ross
<bsa5r6$1a8$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, seen in uk.transport.buses:
>It seems really wierd that OK Travel was allowed to operate without having
>to be under the NBC name.
OK Travel wasn't one of the Tilling or BET companies and thus it
didn't end up in NBC. (Very simplified explanation, that!).
Ditto Barton Transport of Chilwell, who also appeared South Shields
way on express services, IIRC.
>I didn't try to imply that the areas were franchises. I couldn't think of
>the word to describe it! :)
"NBC subsidiary" is the normal term. :)
>That clears up a lot to me. I'm asking all this because i need to do a bit
>of local history research for College, and i was curious too :)
If you fancy some *very* heavy reading, pop along to your nearest
Central Library and see if they've got a copy of National Bus Company
1968 - 1989 (John A Birks & others, pub TPC). Probably best just as a
dip-in resource, it's a huge book.
There are probably many other useful resources available in the local
studies section of the same library and if you're very interested it
might be worth joining The Omnibus Society. Website at
<http://www.omnibussoc.org> and there's an active Northern Branch.
Which reminds me, I must send off my OS renewal form.
--
Ross Hamilton, in Lincoln (UK)
From address *will* bounce
David Farrier
Ross <junk...@aslef-lincoln.org.uk> wrote in message
news:kiphuvsa09mj1d72a...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 19:42:28 -0000, Bri Dafter wrote in
> <bsa5r6$1a8$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, seen in uk.transport.buses:
>
> way on express services, IIRC.
>
Ross,
Barton bought Hall Bros. of South Shields and subsidiary Taylor Bros. of
North Shields in 1967 (35 vehicles) and ran them as a serarate unit until
1971.
Regards
Dave Farrier
Ross
<bskhqp$prf$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, seen in uk.transport.buses:
>Ross <junk...@aslef-lincoln.org.uk> wrote in message
>news:kiphuvsa09mj1d72a...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 19:42:28 -0000, Bri Dafter wrote in
>> <bsa5r6$1a8$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, seen in uk.transport.buses:
>>
>> Ditto Barton Transport of Chilwell, who also appeared South Shields
>> way on express services, IIRC.
>
>North Shields in 1967 (35 vehicles) and ran them as a serarate unit until
>1971.
Ta.
I knew I recalled reference to South Shields at the very least on one
of their 1970s timetables.