Nottingham Bus Drivers
Timbo
however, is what appears to be a new aggressive strategem on the part of its
drivers.
This is a strategem that displays utter contempt for other road users! Its
founding principles seem to be:
1) Always wait until a car is nearly upon you before pulling out of a
bus-stop;
2) If you see a nearside driver indicating to move into your roadlane,
adjust speed to match his and drive parallel;
3) Never indicate if other drivers are in the vicinity;
4) Straddle two lanes wherever possible;
5) Always check if a car is behind you before stopping - the distance
between the car and your bus should be inversely proportional to the
suddeness of your braking.
On several occasions this week, I found myself nearly run off the road - a
direct result of the thoughtlessness of these ignorant swines!
To add insult to injury, we now have bus lanes swallowing up the best part
of Derby Road. These represent nothing but a green card to frenzied bus
drivers to hurtle down them as ridiculous speeds as if they were some kind
of drag strip. You can literally see them laughing at frustrated motorists,
incensed by the resulting traffic congestion.
And it's not just the motorists that are suffering!
This sick strategem makes ample provision for bus passengers too. On the
woeful occasions I have been on a bus, I've lost count of the number of
times a sadistic bus driver has forced me to put a pound into the box,
rather than accepting the change I did have as it fell short by a couple of
pence.
If you ask me, it's a damn disgrace! Their demented and thoughtless
attitudes have turned a once-respected public service into a public menace!
Timbo
clever1
"Timbo" <tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:8EhX5.2240$Wi2....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
drivers onroute, we are lucky though in the fact we don't have the bus lanes
YET, although I presume our streets are too narrow for this.
John
>
>
ph...@thunderbird.freeserve.co.uk
clever1 wrote in message ...
>
>"Timbo" <tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>news:8EhX5.2240$Wi2....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>> The bus service in Nottingham has gone beyond a shambles. More
disturbing,
>> however, is what appears to be a new aggressive strategem on the part of
>its
>> drivers.
>>
>> This is a strategem that displays utter contempt for other road users!
Its
>> founding principles seem to be:
>
>John
>>
>>
>
I too, as a passenger have noticed a real dip in Nottinghams performance
and image over the last few months. Complaint letters remain unanswered,
the service has deteriorated and emails are ingnored. The buses seems to run
as and when the drivers want and not to timetable and not as clean as they
used to be
A sad position for such a fine company to degenerate to
Phil>
Gavin Gillespie
Nearly every driver has the ability, when picking up passengers, to park
his bus at a perfectly formed angle of 45 degrees, in relation to the
pavement, this is always done without the aid of any sort of measuring
equipment.
Congratulations Nottinghamshire bus drivers, Pythagoras would have been
proud of you.
Gavin
--
Gavin Gillespie
Nottingham UK
e-mail use ga...@giltbrook.co.uk
Website www.giltbrook.co.uk
Help eliminate spam, use Spamcop http://spamcop.net
RELL6G
<tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> writes
>The bus service in Nottingham has gone beyond a shambles. More disturbing,
>however, is what appears to be a new aggressive strategem on the part of its
>drivers.
>
>This is a strategem that displays utter contempt for other road users! Its
>founding principles seem to be:
>
>1) Always wait until a car is nearly upon you before pulling out of a
>bus-stop;
Ever though of actually letting the bus pull out?
>
>2) If you see a nearside driver indicating to move into your roadlane,
>adjust speed to match his and drive parallel;
>
>3) Never indicate if other drivers are in the vicinity;
>
>4) Straddle two lanes wherever possible;
I suggest you take some driving lessons in a large vehicle then, by
'large' I mean at least 30 feet long and 8.5 feet wide, then come back
crying about straddling lanes. Large vehicles DO NOT BEND IN THE MIDDLE
AND NEED ROOM TO MANOEUVRE.
>
>5) Always check if a car is behind you before stopping - the distance
>between the car and your bus should be inversely proportional to the
>suddeness of your braking.
Keep your bloody distance then.
>
>On several occasions this week, I found myself nearly run off the road - a
>direct result of the thoughtlessness of these ignorant swines!
Sounds like six of one and half a dozen of the other to me.........
>
>To add insult to injury, we now have bus lanes swallowing up the best part
>of Derby Road. These represent nothing but a green card to frenzied bus
>drivers to hurtle down them as ridiculous speeds as if they were some kind
>of drag strip. You can literally see them laughing at frustrated motorists,
>incensed by the resulting traffic congestion.
I have to admit the sight of fuming motoroids is quite amusing.
>
>And it's not just the motorists that are suffering!
>
>This sick strategem makes ample provision for bus passengers too. On the
>woeful occasions I have been on a bus, I've lost count of the number of
>times a sadistic bus driver has forced me to put a pound into the box,
>rather than accepting the change I did have as it fell short by a couple of
>pence.
Ah, advocating paying short then - I take it you are aware that
Nottingham City operate, by and large, an exact fare policy?
>
>If you ask me, it's a damn disgrace! Their demented and thoughtless
>attitudes have turned a once-respected public service into a public menace!
Perhaps if that glorious public had a bit more respect which seems
totally lacking these days................
--
RELL6G
For emails change nospam to bcvr
Proper buses at http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/mgo148/bristol1.html
fast.moggy
<ph...@thunderbird.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:90l2f7$7ed$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> clever1 wrote in message ...
> >
> >news:8EhX5.2240$Wi2....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> >> The bus service in Nottingham has gone beyond a shambles. More
> disturbing,
> >> however, is what appears to be a new aggressive strategem on the part
of
> >its
> >> drivers.
> >>
> >> This is a strategem that displays utter contempt for other road users!
> Its
> >> founding principles seem to be:
> >
> >John
> >>
> >>
> >
> I too, as a passenger have noticed a real dip in Nottinghams performance
> and image over the last few months. Complaint letters remain unanswered,
> the service has deteriorated and emails are ingnored. The buses seems to
run
> as and when the drivers want and not to timetable and not as clean as they
> used to be
>
> A sad position for such a fine company to degenerate to
>
> Phil>
>
We will also be driving on the left!
fast.moggy
"Timbo" <tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:8EhX5.2240$Wi2....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
direction of management.
These are the very people who seem to think you can safely drive through a
busy city and keep to the times, which they have cut back on alot of routes
again!, A few minutes here a few here all add up leaving the customer at the
sharp end of the resulting mess of bad tempered, sometimes appearing
arrogant.
As for drivers parking up at odd angles yes it happens but you have to
remember that if the stop is inaccessible due to a parked car or unloading
lorry the drive, if he passes the stop, can be disciplined if a complaint is
lodged against him because an elderly person has to walk the extra few yards
the driver had to travel to pull the bus in square, a sort of a catch 22
pull up at angle and be dammed ,pull up beyond the stop and risk litigation
in an event of a mishap on the passenger falling etc and being disciplined
for not pulling up at the correct stop, Crazy but true as I know from first
hand experience!
IM not going to waffle on as this subject will drag on for months but just
to add that not all drivers are inconsiderate and arrogant but i can say
that even i have fallen victim to the pulling out/indicate/look in the
mirror stratagem ( make a note of the destinations you will notice a pattern
!)so i symphonise on that one
At the end of the day the services are about to get worse with the start of
the wonderful tram works in the city centre so if the bus is late or missing
dont blame the driver they have enough problems as it is!
Tim Emanuel
>In article <8EhX5.2240$Wi2....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>, Timbo
><tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> writes
>>however, is what appears to be a new aggressive strategem on the part of its
>>drivers.
>>
>>This is a strategem that displays utter contempt for other road users! Its
>>founding principles seem to be:
>>
>>1) Always wait until a car is nearly upon you before pulling out of a
>>bus-stop;
>
hat, so because the car doesn't let the bus out, the bus is entitled to
pull out dangerously?
I thouhgt of another one the buses always do, driving onto a crossing when
there isn't space to drive off it, then when the lights change the pedestrian
is unable to cross the road.
Tim.
--
http://cantona.org.uk
24 years!
Andrew Harrison
"Timbo" <tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> 1) Always wait until a car is nearly upon you before pulling out of a
> bus-stop;
Try giving way to the bus. In any case, he has right of way.
> 4) Straddle two lanes wherever possible;
A double-decker bus is considerably longer and wider than your tin box,
with large front and rear overhangs. The driver must allow for the fact
that (a) the steering wheels are behind him, therefore the bus must
take up a larger amount of roadspace when making a turn so as to be
able to complete the turn and not drive into the pavement and (b) the
inflammable bit at the back is going to swing out into the road.
> 5) Always check if a car is behind you before stopping - the distance
> between the car and your bus should be inversely proportional to the
> suddeness of your braking.
No - you are following too close behind.
> To add insult to injury, we now have bus lanes swallowing up the best
part
> of Derby Road. These represent nothing but a green card to frenzied
bus
> drivers to hurtle down them as ridiculous speeds as if they were some
kind
> of drag strip. You can literally see them laughing at frustrated
motorists,
> incensed by the resulting traffic congestion.
'Let's get sensible!'
> I've lost count of the number of
> times a sadistic bus driver has forced me to put a pound into the box,
> rather than accepting the change I did have as it fell short by a
couple of
> pence.
And NCT run an exact-fare system, IIRC...
--
Andrew Harrison
"Who are those guys?" - Al Gore 'doing a Dubya', pointing to the busts
of George Washington, Ben Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson, during a tour
of the museum at Monticello
'80 M d? s+:+ Y--- L U+ KQ- C c B@ p Sh--- s++R>s- R(LS5) N(DT3) Prat7
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
tedfat
"fast.moggy" <fast....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:6wtX5.753$4N5....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
> <ph...@thunderbird.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:90l2f7$7ed$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > clever1 wrote in message ...
> > >
> > >"Timbo" <tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > >news:8EhX5.2240$Wi2....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> > >> The bus service in Nottingham has gone beyond a shambles. More
> > disturbing,
> > >> however, is what appears to be a new aggressive strategem on the part
> of
> > >its
> > >> drivers.
> > >>
> > >> This is a strategem that displays utter contempt for other road
users!
> > Its
> > >> founding principles seem to be:
Toby A Inkster Esq
>I thouhgt of another one the buses always do, driving onto a crossing when
>there isn't space to drive off it, then when the lights change the pedestrian
>is unable to cross the road.
That is very annoying, but it's not a 'bus thing' - everyone seems to
do it.
--
Toby Inkster
FAQ: http://visitweb.com/alt.society.nottingham
Dave Harrington
> 1) Always wait until a car is nearly upon you before pulling out of a
> bus-stop;
I suggest you need to read the Highway Code, as it clearly states that you
should let buses pull out from a bus stop. I always do so when riding my
bike and this courtesy costs me nothing, so why do car drivers seem to have
such a problem? Most bus drivers wouldn't bother if it were just one or two
cars who were already in the process of overtaking, but it's often a whole
line of cars which ignore any attempt to pull out. Perhaps it would be
better if drivers of other vehicles behaved better, but in the meantime,
rather than being delayed, I'd prefer the driver to attempt to edge out.
There are good car drivers, but unfortunately they seem to be in the
minority.
> 4) Straddle two lanes wherever possible;
You might have noticed that buses (and HGVs, for that matter) are generally
quite wide, long vehicles, and therefore need more room to turn at
junctions, on roundabouts etc. If you don't understand this, then I
seriously suggest you need to go back to driving school. Would you prefer
they fouled kerbs, lampposts, etc, instead?
Furthermore, a couple of weeks ago, I was on a coach which was forced to do
a 180 degree turn in the road. Would the motorists give the driver enough
room for a few seconds to make the turn? Despite several attempts, no
motorist would do so
> 5) Always check if a car is behind you before stopping - the distance
> between the car and your bus should be inversely proportional to the
> suddeness of your braking.
I fail to see how a bus driver can prevent a following car from travelling
too close. Surely, for one thing, as you can't see what is going on ahead of
the bus, you need to keep well back.
> On several occasions this week, I found myself nearly run off the road - a
> direct result of the thoughtlessness of these ignorant swines!
Care to elaborate?
> To add insult to injury, we now have bus lanes swallowing up the best part
> of Derby Road. These represent nothing but a green card to frenzied bus
> drivers to hurtle down them as ridiculous speeds as if they were some kind
> of drag strip. You can literally see them laughing at frustrated
motorists,
> incensed by the resulting traffic congestion.
Of course motorists *never* speed, do they? Perhaps you are somewhat jealous
of someone actually getting there faster than you? Strange too, when it's
been reported that the bus lane on the M4 has resulted in improved journey
times for *all* road users, not just buses - although that should of course
be their main purpose.
> And it's not just the motorists that are suffering!
>
> This sick strategem makes ample provision for bus passengers too. On the
> woeful occasions I have been on a bus, I've lost count of the number of
> times a sadistic bus driver has forced me to put a pound into the box,
> rather than accepting the change I did have as it fell short by a couple
of
> pence.
Last time I checked, I don't think any bus operators were registered
charities. I'm sure SCI are coming up with a special add-on for
Carmageddon - Maniac Bus Driver 2000.
--
David Harrington
http://www.davidharrington.co.uk
Cycling, Walking, Home Cinema, Computing, Vegetarianism/Veganism
Updated when I feel like it
**Beware the anti-spam reply address**
WSS
> Timbo <tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> wrote
> > 1) Always wait until a car is nearly upon you before pulling out of a
> > bus-stop;
>
> I suggest you need to read the Highway Code, as it clearly states that you
> should let buses pull out from a bus stop. I always do so when riding my
> bike and this courtesy costs me nothing, so why do car drivers seem to have
> such a problem? Most bus drivers wouldn't bother if it were just one or two
> cars who were already in the process of overtaking, but it's often a whole
> line of cars which ignore any attempt to pull out.
Because if we let the bus pull out, we then have to sit behind it for an
indeterminate amount of time, slowly trundling along at sub-speed limit,
sucking up it's fumes into the cabin, and unable to have any advanced
warning of what is ahead of said bus. Better to have it behind you.
Having said that, I do let them pull out, but only because that's what
you're supposed to do, not because I want to. You do usually get a
'thumbs up' for your troubles though. :-)
--
Cheers
Wayne Stuart
Graeme Selway
news:1el8sk2.tkv0ggltkp0N%wssente...@ntlworld.com...
> Because if we let the bus pull out, we then have to sit behind it for
an
> indeterminate amount of time, slowly trundling along at sub-speed
limit,
> sucking up it's fumes into the cabin, and unable to have any advanced
> warning of what is ahead of said bus. Better to have it behind you.
Why not let it pull out on the basis that it won't be very long before
it either pulls into another bus stop or turns into another road?
That's hardly going to delay your journey by any significant amount.
> Having said that, I do let them pull out, but only because that's what
> you're supposed to do, not because I want to. You do usually get a
> 'thumbs up' for your troubles though. :-)
:-)
Regards,
Gray.
Dave Harrington
> Because if we let the bus pull out, we then have to sit behind it for an
> indeterminate amount of time, slowly trundling along at sub-speed limit,
> sucking up it's fumes into the cabin, and unable to have any advanced
> warning of what is ahead of said bus. Better to have it behind you.
Fumes aren't really a problem with a modern, well-maintained bus, but poorly
maintained buses seem to be a problem with some smaller companies. However,
as there are only about 100000 buses in the UK compared to many millions of
cars on the road, the chances of coming across one on the average journey is
relatively quite small. You can always report it to the smokey vehicle
hotline or the operator concerned - and that just isn't possible with a
private car.
Sorry to see that bus drivers actually keep to the speed limit - I know how
frustrating that must be. Cynicism aside, though, round here, I find that
cars are actually the main cause of slow moving traffic, due mainly to the
sheer numbers of them. Compared to most HGVs, modern buses, and in
particular coaches, are blindingly fast - as I recall a Volvo B10M does
something like 0-60 in about 10 seconds. As with any mode of transport,
there are slow and fast drivers, of course, though. Also, if you can't see
in front of the bus, is it not just as likely that it is in turn following a
slow moving vehicle in front? If you let any vehicle out, it is obviously
going to delay you to some extent, but as a single individual, letting a bus
out is on average going to improve the journey time of more than one person.
Dave.
Tim Emanuel
>
>Fumes aren't really a problem with a modern, well-maintained bus, but poorly
>maintained buses seem to be a problem with some smaller companies. However,
Like Nottingham City Transport? Is there ever not a broken down bus somewhere
on HUcknall Road in Top Valley?
Timbo
"RELL6G" <n...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bzyWcGAQ...@bcvr.demon.co.uk...> <tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> writes
> >The bus service in Nottingham has gone beyond a shambles. More
disturbing,
> >however, is what appears to be a new aggressive strategem on the part of
its
> >drivers.
> >
> >This is a strategem that displays utter contempt for other road users!
Its
> >founding principles seem to be:
> >
> >1) Always wait until a car is nearly upon you before pulling out of a
> >bus-stop;
>
>
> >
> >adjust speed to match his and drive parallel;
> >
> >3) Never indicate if other drivers are in the vicinity;
> >
> >4) Straddle two lanes wherever possible;
>
> 'large' I mean at least 30 feet long and 8.5 feet wide, then come back
> crying about straddling lanes. Large vehicles DO NOT BEND IN THE MIDDLE
> AND NEED ROOM TO MANOEUVRE.
>
> >
> >between the car and your bus should be inversely proportional to the
> >suddeness of your braking.
>
>
> >
a
> >direct result of the thoughtlessness of these ignorant swines!
>
>
> >
part
> >of Derby Road. These represent nothing but a green card to frenzied bus
> >drivers to hurtle down them as ridiculous speeds as if they were some
kind
> >of drag strip. You can literally see them laughing at frustrated
motorists,
> >incensed by the resulting traffic congestion.
>
>
> >
> >
> >This sick strategem makes ample provision for bus passengers too. On the
> >woeful occasions I have been on a bus, I've lost count of the number of
> >times a sadistic bus driver has forced me to put a pound into the box,
> >rather than accepting the change I did have as it fell short by a couple
of
> >pence.
>
> Nottingham City operate, by and large, an exact fare policy?
>
> >
> >attitudes have turned a once-respected public service into a public
menace!
>
> totally lacking these days................
I sincerely doubt I was the only motorist who was sickened by your arrogant
and contemptuous reply. It is precisely your unashamed attitude, Sir, that
has resulted in the Nottingham bus menace in the first place!
Rather than sympathising with the plight of hundreds of honest motorists
bedeviled by the irresponsibility of bus drivers of a daily basis, you seem
more concerned with justifying your malevolent and psychopathic conquering
of city roads!
Worse still, your inhuman admission that 'fuming motoroids' are a continual
source of amusement is downright callous - decent motorists are appalled and
enraged by your actions!
I do not dispute that a bus is awkward to navigate, but aren't you supposed
to overcome this during licence training? It would appear that the test
curriculum is deeply flawed, woefully lacking instruction to instill a sense
of fellowship with other road users.
For the sake of your own survival, I suggest it is YOU that starts to show
more respect for other motorists, lest future generations of children will
abandon the traditional 'Hail to the Bus Driver' rhyme in favour of the more
apt 'Go to Hell, Bus Driver'!
Timbo
Timbo
>
> "Timbo" <tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:8EhX5.2240$Wi2....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
the
> direction of management.
> These are the very people who seem to think you can safely drive through a
> busy city and keep to the times, which they have cut back on alot of
routes
> again!, A few minutes here a few here all add up leaving the customer at
the
> sharp end of the resulting mess of bad tempered, sometimes appearing
> arrogant.
>
Now this I can believe! But don't think for one minute that the stress and
pressure of achieving unrealistic targets set by faceless council
bureaucrats exonerates you from blame.
That is an internal dispute - the decent folk of Nottingham do not deserve
to be burdened with the consequences.
Your best recourse is for all bus drivers to start behaving sensibly,
thereby demonstrating that the timetables are truly unachievable in heavy
traffic. Surely it is infinitely preferable to have a late bus than the
carnage we're suffering at the moment?
Timbo
Timbo
"Dave Harrington" <ma...@davidharrington.co.ukx> wrote in message
news:gTzX5.1344$xQ....@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...
> Last time I checked, I don't think any bus operators were registered
charities.
Perhaps you could be gracious enough to explain how accepting 68p in lieu of
a 70p fare constitutes a charity. But have no fear! - the bus service is in
no danger of being viewed as charitable.
Quite the contrary, in fact!
The mocking words of 'I'm sorry, Sir, if you don't have the correct change,
you can either put a pound in or disembark!' from a smug driver over a 2p
shortfall can only be viewed as petty and avaricious.
Bus passengers have every right to be disgusted.
> I'm sure SCI are coming up with a special add-on for
> Carmageddon - Maniac Bus Driver 2000.
The Nottingham heat will, no doubt, be fiercely contended.
Timbo
Toby A Inkster Esq
>Rather than sympathising with the plight of hundreds of honest motorists
>bedeviled by the irresponsibility of bus drivers of a daily basis, you seem
>more concerned with justifying your malevolent and psychopathic conquering
>of city roads!
And quite justifiably... A bus driver will typically be carrying at
least 3 to 4 times more people than a typical car driver and so they
have the right to a little more power over the road.
>Worse still, your inhuman admission that 'fuming motoroids' are a continual
>source of amusement is downright callous - decent motorists are appalled and
>enraged by your actions!
If you are 'fuming' about being stuck in the traffic and having busses
overtake you... why not take a bus???
>I do not dispute that a bus is awkward to navigate, but aren't you supposed
>to overcome this during licence training? It would appear that the test
>curriculum is deeply flawed, woefully lacking instruction to instill a sense
>of fellowship with other road users.
Bus drivers learn a lot in their training, but the city streets were
not designed with buses in mind. Tight corners on often narrow roads
are difficult to take in a large vehicle.
>For the sake of your own survival, I suggest it is YOU that starts to show
>more respect for other motorists, lest future generations of children will
>abandon the traditional 'Hail to the Bus Driver' rhyme in favour of the more
>apt 'Go to Hell, Bus Driver'!
Again, the bus driver is only serving the needs of his passengers who
have at least (and probably more) the urgency to get to town that you
do.
fast.moggy
"Tim Emanuel" <t...@cantona.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrn92ts4...@cantona.org.uk...
> On Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:40:14 -0000, Dave Harrington wrote:
> >
> >Fumes aren't really a problem with a modern, well-maintained bus, but
poorly
> >maintained buses seem to be a problem with some smaller companies.
However,
>
> Like Nottingham City Transport? Is there ever not a broken down bus
somewhere
> on HUcknall Road in Top Valley?
>
> Tim.
bulwell/top valley area?
fast.moggy
perhaps that was just a slip of the fingers on your part?
There are of course people out there who may feel pressured to try and
achieve the times by being a bit more aggressive, just like any other
car/van/lorry driver, on the road so this kind of thoughtless behaviour is
not unique to just one road user.
I run my bus as closely as i can to the timetable without having to risk my
licence which i paid for, NOT the company needless to say at certain times
of the day im a little late but id rather be a little late than try and do
an impression of Michael schumacker on a bad day.
As for the faceless bureaucrat.. he maintains that there is no problem with
the traffic flows in the city centre even though more and more buses are
missing due to running very late due to .....yes you guessed it the traffic
in the city centre morning peak dinner rush and home rush hours!
and to quote a phase 'i cannot see a problem'
Just remember not all the drivers are bad tempered&arrogant
Oh i did see in another mail about someone having problems with a 70p fare..
The answer to this if your faced with a slight shortage is to explain to the
driver that you are a few pence short( assuming its the hopper you are
putting your money into) and that should suffice, jobsworths excepted as
being honest is a lot easier to deal with than the few people who, for say a
70p fare, will walk on put 30/40p in the hopper and tell you thats all your
getting in a menacing manner and walk off, this can make a driver really
happy and not a nice experience either.
If you do put a pound in for a 70p fare you can ask for an excess fare
receipt for the change which you can get from the travel centre in the
square. It may take a couple of days but you will get the change.
Personally im not in favour of hoppers but in this day and age having a
large sum of money on you can make you a potential target as i found out
several years ago.
At the end of the day there are always two sides to every story and a bit
somewhere in the middle that makes sense?
Tom
"Dave Harrington" <ma...@davidharrington.co.ukx> wrote in message
news:gTzX5.1344$xQ....@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...
> > 1) Always wait until a car is nearly upon you before pulling out of a
> > bus-stop;
>
> should let buses pull out from a bus stop. I always do so when riding my
> bike and this courtesy costs me nothing, so why do car drivers seem to
have
> such a problem? Most bus drivers wouldn't bother if it were just one or
two
> cars who were already in the process of overtaking, but it's often a whole
> better if drivers of other vehicles behaved better, but in the meantime,
> rather than being delayed, I'd prefer the driver to attempt to edge out.
> There are good car drivers, but unfortunately they seem to be in the
> minority.
The difference is that bikes are small and often quiet modes of transport
(particularly the pedal, non engined variety), and so I for one know that I
will always let a bus pull out in front of me as I can never be entirely
sure whether or not the driver of the bus has actually seen me, and do not
want to end up a squishy mess underneath a bus.
--
Tom Cumming
thomas....@lineone.net
fast.moggy
"tedfat" <ted...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DQwX5.1316$4N5....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> Well I think that all bus men are secret transvestites!!!!!
>
>
> >
> > <ph...@thunderbird.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:90l2f7$7ed$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > >
> > > clever1 wrote in message ...
> > > >
> > > >news:8EhX5.2240$Wi2....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> > > >> The bus service in Nottingham has gone beyond a shambles. More
> > > disturbing,
> > > >> however, is what appears to be a new aggressive strategem on the
part
> > of
> > > >its
> > > >> drivers.
> > > >>
> > > >> This is a strategem that displays utter contempt for other road
> users!
> > > Its
> > > >> founding principles seem to be:
fast.moggy
"Nectarine" <foa...@the.mouth> wrote in message
news:3oQX5.1055$tR1....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
> fast.moggy said:
>
> : Wait untill the french take us over when the tam is built
> : We will also be driving on the left!
>
>
>
Only sometimes!
fast.moggy
"Toby A Inkster Esq" <tob...@goddamn.co.you-kay> wrote in message
news:sg5t2tg6prldlgeen...@4ax.com...
> Tim Emanuel wrote:
>
> >I thouhgt of another one the buses always do, driving onto a crossing
when
> >there isn't space to drive off it, then when the lights change the
pedestrian
> >is unable to cross the road.
>
> That is very annoying, but it's not a 'bus thing' - everyone seems to
> do it.
>
Blimey!... someone with intellegence on this newsgroup!
Well done
fast.moggy
tedfat
> Seems tedfat's secret is out! How would he know otherwise?
> "tedfat" <ted...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:DQwX5.1316$4N5....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> > Well I think that all bus men are secret transvestites!!!!!
> >
> >
> > "fast.moggy" <fast....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:6wtX5.753$4N5....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> > >
> > > <ph...@thunderbird.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > news:90l2f7$7ed$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > > >
> > > > clever1 wrote in message ...
> > > > >
> > > > >> The bus service in Nottingham has gone beyond a shambles. More
> > > > disturbing,
> > > > >> however, is what appears to be a new aggressive strategem on the
> part
> > > of
> > > > >its
> > > > >> drivers.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> This is a strategem that displays utter contempt for other road
> > users!
> > > > Its
> > > > >> founding principles seem to be:
> > > > >
> > > > >John
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > I too, as a passenger have noticed a real dip in Nottinghams
> > performance
> > > > and image over the last few months. Complaint letters remain
> unanswered,
> > > > the service has deteriorated and emails are ingnored. The buses
seems
> to
> > > run
> > > > as and when the drivers want and not to timetable and not as clean
as
> > they
> > > > used to be
> > > >
> > > > A sad position for such a fine company to degenerate to
> > > >
> > > > Phil>
> > > >
tedfat
blue light on and asked to blow into a hose pipe or something like that with
a green orange and red light on.
Why I had to blow into a traffic light I'll never know why.
But anyway they rewarded me with a nice warm cup of tea back at there place
and in the morning I got a nice microwaved breakfast and another cuppa.
Mind I got a bit sick and tired of them after 4 weeks at them at a place
called HMP Nottingham(Holidays in Mysterious Places)I think it was.
Then they gave me a hundred quid when I left so I did it all again.
Strange city this.news:taSX5.1288$lw2....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
> "Nectarine" <foa...@the.mouth> wrote in message
> news:3oQX5.1055$tR1....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> >
> > fast.moggy said:
> >
> > : We will also be driving on the left!
> >
tedfat
Or just woke up?
You certainly got a lot to say all of a sudden.
LOL
"fast.moggy" <fast....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:cKQX5.1045$lw2....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
> "Tim Emanuel" <t...@cantona.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:slrn92ts4...@cantona.org.uk...
> > On Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:40:14 -0000, Dave Harrington wrote:
> > >
> > >Fumes aren't really a problem with a modern, well-maintained bus, but
> poorly
> > >maintained buses seem to be a problem with some smaller companies.
> However,
> >
> > Like Nottingham City Transport? Is there ever not a broken down bus
> somewhere
> > on HUcknall Road in Top Valley?
> >
> > Tim.
Gavin Gillespie
news:90ofk6$l9k$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> And if he let you on, where would that 2p come from? His own pocket.
> Drivers are, in most cases, responsible for any unders or overs that
> turn up in their float. Now, imagine that, say, 100-odd people tried
> this with you every day. Upon return to the garage, would you be
> willing to get £2 out of your pocket to make it all add up? Thought
not.
You seem to be saying that if the drivers are over in their float, from
passengers not having the correct fare and overpaying, that extra money
goes to the drivers, is this true?
This would mean that if 100 odd people put £1.00 into the box every day
for a 50 pence fare, the driver would be £50.00 per day better off, or
£250.00 per week. Does the tax man know about this?
--
Gavin Gillespie
Nottingham UK
e-mail use ga...@giltbrook.co.uk
Website www.giltbrook.co.uk
Help eliminate spam, use Spamcop http://spamcop.net
WSS
> WSS <wssente...@ntlworld.com> wrote
> > Because if we let the bus pull out, we then have to sit behind it for an
> > indeterminate amount of time, slowly trundling along at sub-speed limit,
> > sucking up it's fumes into the cabin, and unable to have any advanced
> > warning of what is ahead of said bus. Better to have it behind you.
>
> Fumes aren't really a problem with a modern, well-maintained bus,
What 'well-maintained buses' are these then? If a 'well-maintained bus'
doesn't emmit fumes, then I've never seen one. The only difference is
the amount of visibility of said fumes, it seems - But they're no less
unpleasant just because you can't see them.
You primarily a cyclist, yes? Therefore, it is unlikely that you would
notice the fumes to the extent of a car driver. Why? Let me explain...
If you let a bus pull out in front of you, it's no great inconveinience
- the bus pulls out, and away it goes into the distance leaving you
behind and taking it's fumes with it. Also, you being out in the open
allows the fumes to 'dilute' with the air outside.
However, a car driver will invariably be following the bus for longer
sucking up it's fumes into an exclosed cabin (unless you happen to have
the luxury of air-con/filters) which is very noticable, even if you
can't see it.
> but poorly
> maintained buses seem to be a problem with some smaller companies. However,
> as there are only about 100000 buses in the UK compared to many millions of
> cars on the road, the chances of coming across one on the average journey is
> relatively quite small. You can always report it to the smokey vehicle
> hotline or the operator concerned - and that just isn't possible with a
> private car.
>
> Sorry to see that bus drivers actually keep to the speed limit - I know how
> frustrating that must be.
Under the speed limit, accelerating slowly, and then pulling up at the
next stop when overtaking it might not be possible this time.
> Cynicism aside, though, round here, I find that
> cars are actually the main cause of slow moving traffic, due mainly to the
> sheer numbers of them. Compared to most HGVs, modern buses, and in
> particular coaches, are blindingly fast - as I recall a Volvo B10M does
> something like 0-60 in about 10 seconds.
And how many of those do NCT have? And would they ever use that
facility on a normal route? There's little point a bus driver hurrying
- He has a timetable to follow - If he arrives early at a stop, he can't
leave it until his timetable dictates.
> As with any mode of transport,
> there are slow and fast drivers, of course, though. Also, if you can't see
> in front of the bus, is it not just as likely that it is in turn following a
> slow moving vehicle in front?
Err, no! Not often.
I don't know about anyone else, but I prefer to have a good view of the
road ahead - Following another car, you can usually see through their
windows at the road ahead, but if there's a bus, HGV, van, or even a 4x4
in front, that pretty much removes that luxury. Again, being a cyclist,
that's not an issue - They are all so much faster than you are - They
overtake you, and they're gone!
> If you let any vehicle out, it is obviously
> going to delay you to some extent, but as a single individual, letting a bus
> out is on average going to improve the journey time of more than one person.
Maybe, but humans are inherently selfish. It's not right, but that's
the way it is.
My participation in this thread was to highlight to you, and others who
might not be regular motorists, why we might do what we do. Hope it
helps.
--
Cheers
Wayne Stuart
Ashleigh Jones
Nectarine <foa...@the.mouth> wrote in message
news:3oQX5.1055$tR1....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
> fast.moggy said:
>
> : Wait untill the french take us over when the tam is built
> : We will also be driving on the left!
>
> We do drive on the left.......
>
>
>
When the Tam is built? wats that?lol
Hey but when u get trams, gee will you have fun. Go to Manchester for a test
run! Pedestrian, car driver, bus driver you'll have fun dodging them.
Toby A Inkster Esq
>
>Toby A Inkster Esq said:
>
>: Again, the bus driver is only serving the needs of his passengers who
>: have at least (and probably more) the urgency to get to town that you
>: do.
>
>Buses are terrible things. The cause pollution of the worst kind, emitting
>large particles of whassit as they do, and they ruin the environment by
>causing the most dreadful traffic jams. In Turkey public transport consists
>of little mini-vans, small and frequent.
Yes, but typically a bus holds around 30 people. Looking at the
contents of an average car, you'll see one or two people. If the
occupants of the bus were to instead drive cars, you'd have about 20
extra cars on the road which, believe me, would be a much bigger
threat both to the environment and traffic.
Andrew Harrison
"Timbo" <tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> The mocking words of 'I'm sorry, Sir, if you don't have the correct
change,
> you can either put a pound in or disembark!' from a smug driver over
a 2p
> shortfall can only be viewed as petty and avaricious.
And if he let you on, where would that 2p come from? His own pocket.
Drivers are, in most cases, responsible for any unders or overs that
turn up in their float. Now, imagine that, say, 100-odd people tried
this with you every day. Upon return to the garage, would you be
willing to get £2 out of your pocket to make it all add up? Thought not.
--
Andrew Harrison
"Who are those guys?" - Al Gore 'doing a Dubya', pointing to the busts
of George Washington, Ben Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson, during a tour
of the museum at Monticello
'80 M d? s+:+ Y--- L U+ KQ- C c B@ p Sh--- s++R>s- R(LS5) N(DT3) Prat7
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Nectarine
Nectarine
Timbo
"Toby A Inkster Esq" <tob...@goddamn.co.you-kay> wrote in message
> contents of an average car, you'll see one or two people. If the
> occupants of the bus were to instead drive cars, you'd have about 20
> extra cars on the road which, believe me, would be a much bigger
> threat both to the environment and traffic.
>
Yes it would be, if what you had said was realistic!
I think you'll find that the majority of bus passengers do not own/cannot
afford/have no access to a car.
Timbo
Timbo
"Gavin Gillespie" <ga...@giltbrooks.co.uk> wrote in message
news:OHSX5.1395$lw2....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> "Andrew Harrison" <andrew....@miltonabbey.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:90ofk6$l9k$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > Drivers are, in most cases, responsible for any unders or overs that
> > turn up in their float. Now, imagine that, say, 100-odd people tried
> > this with you every day. Upon return to the garage, would you be
> > willing to get £2 out of your pocket to make it all add up? Thought
> not.
>
> passengers not having the correct fare and overpaying, that extra money
> goes to the drivers, is this true?
> This would mean that if 100 odd people put £1.00 into the box every day
> for a 50 pence fare, the driver would be £50.00 per day better off, or
> £250.00 per week. Does the tax man know about this?
>
Interesting point, Gavin - if drivers do get to pocket excess payments, this
takes their level of abuse into an entirely new dimension.
I'd be surprised if the bus operator knew about this, let alone the taxman.
Timbo
Gavin Gillespie
> The company benefit from any 'overs' - on exact fare vehicles the cash
> box is only removed once the vehicle arrives at its depot at the end
of
> the working day. Upon removal the box locks itself until attached to
the
> counting machine. Basically the driver does not get to touch a penny
on
> an exact fare vehicle so your 'entirely new dimension of abuse'
> allegation doesn't stand up to a deal there.......
Thanks for the clarification on this matter, this is what I would have
expected to happen, but a bit different from the posting by Andrew
Harrison, which stated that drivers are responsible for overs and
unders, and would have to make up the difference if under, but failed to
mention what happens if over.
Do the drivers really have to make up any shortfall? If so, it seems
that the bus company wins all round, if short the driver makes up the
missing amount, if over, the company pockets it.
Gavin
RELL6G
Gillespie <ga...@giltbrooks.co.uk> writes
<snip>
>Thanks for the clarification on this matter, this is what I would have
>expected to happen, but a bit different from the posting by Andrew
>Harrison, which stated that drivers are responsible for overs and
>unders, and would have to make up the difference if under, but failed to
>mention what happens if over.
>Do the drivers really have to make up any shortfall? If so, it seems
>that the bus company wins all round, if short the driver makes up the
>missing amount, if over, the company pockets it.
That's about the size of it, drivers who handle cash (as is the case on
the vast majority of bus services) are fully responsible for the
takings. Any shortfall, even 1p (I kid you not!) is deducted from their
wages.
--
RELL6G
For emails change nospam to bcvr
Proper buses at http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/mgo148/bristol1.html
Paul Grayson
this
> >takes their level of abuse into an entirely new dimension.
> >
> >I'd be surprised if the bus operator knew about this, let alone the
taxman.
>
> box is only removed once the vehicle arrives at its depot at the end of
> the working day. Upon removal the box locks itself until attached to the
> counting machine. Basically the driver does not get to touch a penny on
> an exact fare vehicle so your 'entirely new dimension of abuse'
> allegation doesn't stand up to a deal there.......
The bus company I use is more civilised than this, thank god. As I buy a
weekly £25 return ticket off the driver on a Monday, I'd shudder if they
refused to give me a fiver as change.
Is not giving change illegal under some Act of Parliament or European law?
Ebenezer Scrooge
<kz4Y5.3185$tR1....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>, seen in
uk.transport.buses:
>"RELL6G" <n...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:zqwM6CAH...@bcvr.demon.co.uk...
>> The company benefit from any 'overs' - on exact fare vehicles the cash
>> box is only removed once the vehicle arrives at its depot at the end
>> of the working day. Upon removal the box locks itself until attached to
>> the counting machine. Basically the driver does not get to touch a penny
>> on an exact fare vehicle so your 'entirely new dimension of abuse'
>> allegation doesn't stand up to a deal there.......
>
>Thanks for the clarification on this matter, this is what I would have
>expected to happen, but a bit different from the posting by Andrew
>Harrison, which stated that drivers are responsible for overs and
>unders, and would have to make up the difference if under, but failed to
>mention what happens if over.
'Overs' have always been taken by the bus company, ever since the bus
route was invented. Similarly, 'shorts' have always been taken out of
the pay of the driver (or conductor where such creatures exist).
Some companies using cash vaults don't act in this way, but most do.
>Do the drivers really have to make up any shortfall? If so, it seems
>that the bus company wins all round, if short the driver makes up the
>missing amount, if over, the company pockets it.
Spot on.
--
Ebenezer Scrooge
* Please observe 'Reply-to' address. 'From' address auto-deletes.
Ebenezer Scrooge
<4zadTlBR...@spods.demon.co.uk>, seen in uk.transport.buses:
>Why do people think it's acceptable to use a bus or a train without
>paying?
Because "it's different, innit?"
Y'know, I doubt he'd expect to pay 2p short in Tesco or M&S...
Ebenezer Scrooge
<90qt1t$3et$1...@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net>, seen in
uk.transport.buses:
>Is not giving change illegal under some Act of Parliament or European law?
No.
No company is required by law to give change, and indeed any company
can specify the exact method of payment for their product.
Avoiding Killfiles
"Ebenezer Scrooge" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:65223t8i08lp1u05t...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:45:37 +0000, Gordon Brown <gordon@a.a> wrote in
> <4zadTlBR...@spods.demon.co.uk>, seen in uk.transport.buses:
>
> >Why do people think it's acceptable to use a bus or a train without
> >paying?
>
> Because "it's different, innit?"
>
> Y'know, I doubt he'd expect to pay 2p short in Tesco or M&S...
Your analogy is cretinous. Tesco and M&S offer change, Notts buses do not.
Upon boarding a bus without the correct change, we are forced to either
overpay significantly, or disembark. Under these circumstances, I fail to
see why a 2p shortfall cannot legitimately be excused.
Timbo
Notts Lad
all the cars that aren't paid for and all the women drivers cause they
shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car anyway there place is in the home
looking after there husband and kids
Toby A Inkster Esq <tob...@goddamn.co.you-kay> wrote in message
news:0a403tg2gv7af8oim...@4ax.com...
> Nectarine wrote:
>
> >
> Yes, but typically a bus holds around 30 people. Looking at the
> contents of an average car, you'll see one or two people. If the
> occupants of the bus were to instead drive cars, you'd have about 20
> extra cars on the road which, believe me, would be a much bigger
> threat both to the environment and traffic.
>
Ebenezer Scrooge
<6C8Y5.3314$lw2....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>, seen in
uk.transport.buses:
>"Ebenezer Scrooge" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>news:65223t8i08lp1u05t...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:45:37 +0000, Gordon Brown <gordon@a.a> wrote in
>> <4zadTlBR...@spods.demon.co.uk>, seen in uk.transport.buses:
>>
>> >Why do people think it's acceptable to use a bus or a train without
>> >paying?
>>
>> Because "it's different, innit?"
>>
>> Y'know, I doubt he'd expect to pay 2p short in Tesco or M&S...
>
>Your analogy is cretinous. Tesco and M&S offer change, Notts buses do not.
>Upon boarding a bus without the correct change,
do they? Given the amount of whinging you do, you obviously know the
fares, but you choose not to ensure that you have the fare available.
Having the exact fare available never caused me problems in the 24
years I was a fare-paying passenger on West Midlnds PTE/PTC buses,and
it really doesn't seem to cause problems to the 99.9999% of NCT
passengers who aren't called Timbo.
I'd suggest that the only cretin in this discussion is one who whinges
because he doesn't wish to actually take responsibility for his own
behaviour - strangely enough, that's you.
Gordon Brown
<mu0...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>The bus company I use is more civilised than this, thank god. As I buy a
>refused to give me a fiver as change.
>
>Is not giving change illegal under some Act of Parliament or European law?
The law of contract applies. The company offers you a service, and you
accept by handing over your money. If it is made clear that no change
will be given, and you hand over the money anyway, then tough! You are
not obliged to enter the contract.
Similarly, if you fail to meet the requirements to enter into the
contract then there is no contract - In other words, if you do not have
enough money.
--
Gordon Brown
gordon(a)spods demon co uk (punctuate as appropriate!)
<All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?>
Ashleigh Jones
Notts Lad <nott...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Kj9Y5.3382$lw2....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> yep the whole thing can be solved over night simply by taking off the road
> all the cars that aren't paid for and all the women drivers cause they
> shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car anyway there place is in the home
> looking after there husband and kids
>
>
>
>
>
Bloody hell Notts lad, are u Tedafat in disguise? Thats the sort of inane,
trite, chauvenistic posting he
would, well, post.
Go take a long walk on a short pier.
Are you married? If so poor woman. If not lets hope no lady ever gives you
a second look.
Pete Baggett
<n...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
|<snip>
|
|Again - go and take a few lessons in a double deck bus. You may well
|discover the alarming amount of room needed to avoid obstructions both
|at ground level and fifteen feet above. I almost guarantee that your
|perception of large vehicles and of other road users will markedly
|change.
I've been learning to drive trolleybuses at the Black Country Museum
in Dudley. There are some very tight corners on the on-site roads and
I was quite surprised at how far in advance I had to plan any
manoeuvre.
|
|>
|>For the sake of your own survival, I suggest it is YOU that starts to show
|>more respect for other motorists, lest future generations of children will
|>abandon the traditional 'Hail to the Bus Driver' rhyme in favour of the more
|>apt 'Go to Hell, Bus Driver'!
|
|I think the last part of that sums your attitude up rather
|nicely..........
--
Pete Baggett <pe...@wulfrunian.net>
My Web Page:-
www.wulfrunian.net
(Trolleybus page www.under2wires.co.uk)
David Farrier
WSS <wssente...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1el8sk2.tkv0ggltkp0N%wssente...@ntlworld.com...
> Because if we let the bus pull out, we then have to sit behind it for an
> indeterminate amount of time, slowly trundling along at sub-speed limit,
> sucking up it's fumes into the cabin, and unable to have any advanced
> warning of what is ahead of said bus. Better to have it behind you.
The trouble is that the fifteen "very important" single-occupant cars behind
you also share your thoughts :)
Dave Farrier
>
David Farrier
>
> "Dave Harrington" <ma...@davidharrington.co.ukx> wrote in message
> news:gTzX5.1344$xQ....@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...
>
> > Last time I checked, I don't think any bus operators were registered
> charities.
>
> Perhaps you could be gracious enough to explain how accepting 68p in lieu
of
> a 70p fare constitutes a charity. But have no fear! - the bus service is
in
> no danger of being viewed as charitable.
>
> Quite the contrary, in fact!
>
> The mocking words of 'I'm sorry, Sir, if you don't have the correct
change,
> you can either put a pound in or disembark!' from a smug driver over a 2p
> shortfall can only be viewed as petty and avaricious.
>
Have you ever seen anyone in any pub offer £1.70 for a pint costing £1.75?
Or, have you ever seen anyone complain at being charged £2.10 for a pint
that is £1.50 in their local?
Have you ever offered less than the asking price at a football ground,
cinema, petrol station, McDonalds? No, I thought not.
So why do people resent paying the correct bus fare?
Regards
Dave Farrier
altheim
"Avoiding Killfiles" <perfectly...@notts.co.uk> wrote:
> "Ebenezer Scrooge" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> > On Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:45:37 +0000, Gordon Brown <gordon@a.a> wrote in
> > <4zadTlBR...@spods.demon.co.uk>, seen in uk.transport.buses:
> >
> > >Why do people think it's acceptable to use a bus or a train without
> > >paying?
> >
> > Because "it's different, innit?"
> >
> > Y'know, I doubt he'd expect to pay 2p short in Tesco or M&S...
>
> Your analogy is cretinous. Tesco and M&S offer change, Notts buses do not.
> Upon boarding a bus without the correct change, we are forced to either
> overpay significantly, or disembark. Under these circumstances, I fail to
> see why a 2p shortfall cannot legitimately be excused.
>
--
altheim
RELL6G
<alt...@freeuk.com> writes
You would be asked to leave the vehicle, if you still refused to do so
appropriate assistance can then be summoned. Of course by the normal run
of things anyone refusing to leave the vehicle does so of their own
volition eventually as they become bored and also the target of comments
from other passengers during the wait for that assistance to arrive.
And yes, you can be asked to leave a vehicle and according to the
regulations you are required to do so.
Terry Harper
<6t123t0c7j7qeacbs...@4ax.com>...
>
>'Overs' have always been taken by the bus company, ever since the bus
>route was invented. Similarly, 'shorts' have always been taken out of
>the pay of the driver (or conductor where such creatures exist).
>
conductor's pay, overs went back to him.
On some services where the fares were all high, like the 62 Hastings-Margate
limited stop, you ended up with a pocket full of notes and virtually no
change. It was normally impossible to pay in the exact amount.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org
E-mail: terry....@btinternet.com
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/
WSS
> "WSS" <wssente...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:1elabn7.5v1o6t1m6apwiN%wssente...@ntlworld.com...
> > Dave Harrington <ma...@davidharrington.co.ukx> wrote:
> >
> > > WSS <wssente...@ntlworld.com> wrote
> > However, a car driver will invariably be following the bus for longer
> > sucking up it's fumes into an exclosed cabin (unless you happen to have
> > the luxury of air-con/filters) which is very noticable, even if you
> > can't see it.
>
> & if you're following another car/lorry/van etc you are still sucking air
> into your cabin
Very true. Any older vehicle, particulary diesels, are just as
unpleasant to follow as buses.
> > > Sorry to see that bus drivers actually keep to the speed limit - I know
> > > how frustrating that must be.
> >
> > Under the speed limit, accelerating slowly, and then pulling up at the
> > next stop when overtaking it might not be possible this time.
>
> If you actually try to 'read' the road on most occasions you should have
> enough time to be able get around him, that's if another car driver doesn't
> dive into the safe braking gap you always leave (you do always leave one
> don't you?).
I was actually talking about overtaking it while it's stationary at a
bus stop - Not always possible on a single carrigeway road with oncoming
traffic. Hence, you are still stuck behind it... "If only I'd gotten
past it while I had the chance..."
Anyway, rarely would I attempt to overtake anything faster than a
milkfloat in a built up area - Too many unpredictable things can happen
on the wrong side of the road. Plus, as higlighted previously,
visibility when following a bus is far too restricted to do so safely in
those conditions.
> Sorry, but I have to drive all over East Midlands everyday in the course of
> my work.
Me too, but mainly Notts.
> I have to deal with all types of roads & road conditions & have
> found that (in general) that the bus/coach drivers have a bit more
> consideration than a lot (if not most) of the car drivers & indeed display
> an overall better use of road craft, unlike the car drivers who deliberately
> pull out in front, causing me to slow down & then very slowly accelerate
> away because they don't want a box van in front of them.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against all of any particular type of
driver, least of all bus drivers - My Dad used to be one - I guess there
are good and bad drivers no matter what they drive. Not all bus drivers
are bad, but conversely, not all car drivers are bad either.
> If you are in such a tearing hurry why don't you leave 5 minutes earlier &
> remember the 'speed limit' isn't the minimum speed, it's the maximum legal
> speed in optimum conditions (emphasising the words maximum & optimum).
Yeah yeah, whatever! <rolls eyes> ;-)
In a perfect world, nobody is ever in a hurry, everyone sticks rigidly
to the speed limit, and I go home every day to where Isla Fisher is
waiting with my tea on the table. 8-D However...
Can I just reiterate that I DO let buses pull out whenever feasable,
albeit sometimes begrudingly, but if I was so thoughtless as to decide
not to just the once, the probable reasons have now been highlighted.
:-)
--
Cheers
Wayne Stuart
WSS
Not my thoughts... Just the thoughts of other less considerate drivers
than my good self. ;-)
--
Cheers
Wayne Stuart
tedfat
"Stevie D" <stev...@catsrule.garfield.com> wrote in message
news:3A303F91...@catsrule.garfield.com...
> tedfat wrote:
>
> > Oh no how did you know that I'm into over 60 year olds?
>
> <SNIP!>
>
> OK, own up, which tart x-posted this to a Nottingham group!
>
> --
> "I believe junk food tastes so good
> Because it's bad for you"
> [Savage Garden, 'Affirmation']
>
tedfat
LOL
Sort of inane,trite,chauvinistic posting I would post
"Notts Lad" <nott...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Kj9Y5.3382$lw2....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Ashleigh Jones
As for you notts lad, oh well , same message.
luv yas ashie xx
tedfat <ted...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UCfY5.4852$tR1....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Toby A Inkster Esq
>yep the whole thing can be solved over night simply by taking off the road
>all the cars
[snip]
I quite agree.
Bill Hayles
<Terry....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Ebenezer Scrooge wrote in message
><6t123t0c7j7qeacbs...@4ax.com>...
>>
>>'Overs' have always been taken by the bus company, ever since the bus
>>route was invented. Similarly, 'shorts' have always been taken out of
>>the pay of the driver (or conductor where such creatures exist).
>>
>Not on the East Kent in the 1950s they weren't. Shorts came off the
>conductor's pay, overs went back to him.
You surprise me. On London Country in the seventies, shorts came off
the driver's pay (I was OPO), overs to the company.
What's more, anything more than a pound either way was a disciplinary
offence, although blind eyes were usually turned at local level for a
one-off incidence.
--
Bill
altheim
"David Farrier" <DFAR...@daveandpat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Timbo <tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > "Dave Harrington" <ma...@davidharrington.co.ukx> wrote:
> >
> > > Last time I checked, I don't think any bus operators were registered
> > charities.
> > The mocking words of 'I'm sorry, Sir, if you don't have the correct
> > change, you can either put a pound in or disembark!' from a smug
> > driver over a 2p shortfall can only be viewed as petty and avaricious.
> >
> > Bus passengers have every right to be disgusted.
>
> Have you ever seen anyone in any pub offer £1.70 for a pint
> costing £1.75?
>
> So why do people resent paying the correct bus fare?
>
fare - it's the *overpaying* I resent. The expectation of NCT that
we will happily part with a fiver and surrender our rights to some
change. It's not good enough to say we can collect the change
from xxx depot when it actually costs more in time and travel to
collect it. To have the *correct* fare requires one to plan journey's
ahead. That means no-one can just hop on a bus on a whim.
--
altheim
altheim
"Timbo" <tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "Gavin Gillespie" <ga...@giltbrooks.co.uk> wrote:
> > "Andrew Harrison" <andrew....@miltonabbey.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > And if he let you on, where would that 2p come from? His own pocket.
> > > Drivers are, in most cases, responsible for any unders or overs that
> > > turn up in their float. Now, imagine that, say, 100-odd people tried
> > > this with you every day. Upon return to the garage, would you be
> > > willing to get Ł2 out of your pocket to make it all add up? Thought
> > not.
> >
> > You seem to be saying that if the drivers are over in their float, from
> > passengers not having the correct fare and overpaying, that extra money
> > goes to the drivers, is this true?
> > This would mean that if 100 odd people put Ł1.00 into the box every day
> > for a 50 pence fare, the driver would be Ł50.00 per day better off, or
> > Ł250.00 per week. Does the tax man know about this?
> >
>
> Interesting point, Gavin - if drivers do get to pocket excess payments, this
> takes their level of abuse into an entirely new dimension.
>
> I'd be surprised if the bus operator knew about this, let alone the taxman.
>
operators knew about it very well. That's why they have -
or had - inspectors. Back in the '60s-'70s when I was
still on the buses all crews knew about 'KTYs', as they
were called (Keep Ticket Yoof - that's why I was able to
retire so early <ahem>). I'm not sure how it works these
days, I thought drivers weren't allowed to touch money
after it had gone into the machine. If they have to hand
it intact to the cash office the chances are that cashiers
could pocket excesses.
--
altheim
altheim
"Ebenezer Scrooge" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
[snips]
> > ... Tesco and M&S offer change, Notts buses do not.
>
> And Notts CT force you board their buses without the correct change,
> do they? Given the amount of whinging you do, you obviously know the
> fares, but you choose not to ensure that you have the fare available.
> I'd suggest that the only cretin in this discussion is one who whinges
> because he doesn't wish to actually take responsibility for his own
> behaviour - strangely enough, that's you.
>
or summat? The above writer is correct: Tesco and M&S - and
every other damn commercial enterprise in Britain - offer change,
except NCT.
So you don't like whingers. Tough - its time more people did a
bit of whinging instead of putting up with this crap from public
service authorities.
--
altheim
altheim
"RELL6G" <n...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> altheim <alt...@freeuk.com> writes
> >"Avoiding Killfiles" <perfectly...@notts.co.uk> wrote:
> >> "Ebenezer Scrooge" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> >> > On Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:45:37 +0000, Gordon Brown <gordon@a.a> wrote in
> >> > <4zadTlBR...@spods.demon.co.uk>, seen in uk.transport.buses:
> >> >
> >> > >Why do people think it's acceptable to use a bus or a train without
> >> > >paying?
> >> >
> >> > Because "it's different, innit?"
> >> >
> >> > Y'know, I doubt he'd expect to pay 2p short in Tesco or M&S...
> >>
> >> Your analogy is cretinous. Tesco and M&S offer change, Notts buses do
not.
> >> Upon boarding a bus without the correct change, we are forced to either
> >> overpay significantly, or disembark. Under these circumstances, I fail to
> >> see why a 2p shortfall cannot legitimately be excused.
> >>
> >What would happen if you refused to overpay and you refused to get off?
>
> You would be asked to leave the vehicle, if you still refused to do so
> appropriate assistance can then be summoned. Of course by the normal
> run of things anyone refusing to leave the vehicle does so of their own
> volition eventually as they become bored and also the target of comments
> from other passengers during the wait for that assistance to arrive.
>
pleased to see the arrival of the police to help me in the face
of this anti-social authority. After all, the NCT is there to provide
a service as well as make a profit and I haven't actually refused
to pay - just overpay. I wonder how much adverse publicity the
NCT could stand if enough stalwart citizens made a stand for
common sense. They wouldn't get away with it so easily in
America - or in Europe.
> And yes, you can be asked to leave a vehicle and according
> to the regulations you are required to do so.
And you're happy with this are you?
--
altheim
altheim
"WSS" <wssente...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> B-) <kra...@invalidntlworld.com> wrote:
>
[...]
> > & if you're following another car/lorry/van etc you are still sucking air
> > into your cabin
>
> Very true. Any older vehicle, particulary diesels, are just as
> unpleasant to follow as buses.
>
you don't follow buses for very long do you - just a hundred metres
or so to the next bus stop and then you pass (very rare if you can't).
Now bikes - they really do get in the way.
--
altheim
Ebenezer Scrooge
<90rq3r$pkl$2...@plutonium.btinternet.com>, seen in uk.transport.buses:
>Ebenezer Scrooge wrote in message
><6t123t0c7j7qeacbs...@4ax.com>...
>>
>>'Overs' have always been taken by the bus company, ever since the bus
>>route was invented. Similarly, 'shorts' have always been taken out of
>>the pay of the driver (or conductor where such creatures exist).
>>
>Not on the East Kent in the 1950s they weren't. Shorts came off the
>conductor's pay, overs went back to him.
Exception that proves the rule, I guess.
>On some services where the fares were all high, like the 62 Hastings-Margate
>limited stop, you ended up with a pocket full of notes and virtually no
>change. It was normally impossible to pay in the exact amount.
Wouldn't have stopped 'em round here. Staff would have ended up
subsidising the company... :-(
Andrew Harrison
"Gavin Gillespie" <ga...@giltbrooks.co.uk> wrote:
> You seem to be saying that if the drivers are over in their float,
from
> passengers not having the correct fare and overpaying, that extra
money
> goes to the drivers, is this true?
No, I didn't say that.
They are responsible for it in that the company will expect the driver
to know why he/she is over/under.
--
Andrew Harrison
"Who are those guys?" - Al Gore 'doing a Dubya', pointing to the busts
of George Washington, Ben Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson, during a tour
of the museum at Monticello
'80 M d? s+:+ Y--- L U+ KQ- C c B@ p Sh--- s++R>s- R(LS5) N(DT3) Prat7
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ebenezer Scrooge
wrote in <gqsY5.31542$R77.2...@nnrp4.clara.net>, seen in
uk.transport.buses:
>I wonder how much adverse publicity the
>NCT could stand if enough stalwart citizens made a stand for
>common sense.
Not very much. So get off your arses and get out there and do it. Then
you might get a change, and if you can get a change to a system you
feel is better, good for you - but for chrissake don't just whinge.
Looking at it from another angle, though, you might also discover that
many of the stalwart citizens of Nottingham aren't all that bothered,
just as many of the stalwart citizens of Birmingham aren't bothered,
hence the fact that farebox use is *expanding* in the West Midlands.
>They wouldn't get away with it so easily in
>America - or in Europe.
You have a lot of experience of transport authorities in America and
Europe, I take it?
Clue: the public transit fare-box system was invented in America, and
it gained widespread currency over there, being used by almost all
urban transport operators. Change was *not* an option.
Ebenezer Scrooge
<fqsY5.31541$R77.2...@nnrp4.clara.net>, seen in uk.transport.buses:
>"Ebenezer Scrooge" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>[snips]
>> > ... Tesco and M&S offer change, Notts buses do not.
>>
>> And Notts CT force you board their buses without the correct change,
>> fares, but you choose not to ensure that you have the fare available.
>>[...]
>> I'd suggest that the only cretin in this discussion is one who whinges
>> because he doesn't wish to actually take responsibility for his own
>> behaviour - strangely enough, that's you.
>>
>What the hell is wrong with you Scrooge?
Nothing the hell wrong with me AFAIK. Care to tell me exactly what the
hell is wrong with me, given that you evidently consider yourself
qualified to carry out such diagnoses from afar?
>Do you work for NCT or summat?
Nope. Do you?
>The above writer is correct: Tesco and M&S - and
>every other damn commercial enterprise in Britain - offer change,
>except NCT.
And except all those other damn commercial enterprises of the bus
company ilk (such as Travel West Midlands) who require exact fare, no
change, of course.
Exact Fare operation has a long history in the transport industry, and
it strikes me that you could do with learning about more than your own
backyard before you start telling us what "every other damn commercial
enterprise in Britain" does.
>So you don't like whingers. Tough - its time more people did a
>bit of whinging instead of putting up with this crap from public
>service authorities.
I'm not really sure what a "public service authority" is supposed to
be, but whatever it is I doubt NCT is one. NCT is a business that
exists to make a profit for its shareholders, one of which happens to
be the City of Nottingham. If you get shafted in the process of the
company making a profit, well, that's business for you. So you don't
like it? Tough.
Secondly, and far more importantly, whingeing does no good at all. By
all means go and make a formal complaint to NCT, start a media
campaign to get NCT to give change or whatever, and bully for you if
it works - but whingeing, whether here on a newsgroup or out there in
the bus queue makes no difference whatsoever. It just gives the
impression that you don't have the guts to stand up and fight for your
beliefs.
WSS
> "WSS" <wssente...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > B-) <kra...@invalidntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
> [...]
> > > & if you're following another car/lorry/van etc you are still sucking air
> > > into your cabin
> >
> > Very true. Any older vehicle, particulary diesels, are just as
> > unpleasant to follow as buses.
>
> If you're close enough to suck in fumes you are too close.
When moving maybe, but what about in busy stop/start traffic? Leaving a
large gap then isn't going to make you popular with those behind.
> Anyway
> you don't follow buses for very long do you - just a hundred metres
> or so to the next bus stop and then you pass (very rare if you can't).
The possibility is enough to someone more selfish than myself to deny
the bus the opportunity to pull out, just in case. Rather have it
behind.
> Now bikes - they really do get in the way.
I couldn't possibly comment, but I suspect someone else might. :-)
--
Cheers
Wayne Stuart
Steve Peake
> altheim <alt...@freeuk.com> wrote:
> > Now bikes - they really do get in the way.
>
> I couldn't possibly comment, but I suspect someone else might. :-)
To a cross posted troll, I doubt it. Adding u.r.c, a discussion does not
make :)
Steve
altheim
"Ebenezer Scrooge" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> >"Ebenezer Scrooge" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> >[snips]
> >> > ... Tesco and M&S offer change, Notts buses do not.
> >>
> >> And Notts CT force you board their buses without the correct change,
> >> do they? Given the amount of whingeing you do, you obviously know the
> >> fares, but you choose not to ensure that you have the fare available.
> >>[...]
> >> I'd suggest that the only cretin in this discussion is one who whinges
> >> because he doesn't wish to actually take responsibility for his own
> >> behaviour - strangely enough, that's you.
> >>
> >What the hell is wrong with you Scrooge?
>
> Nothing the hell wrong with me AFAIK. Care to tell me exactly what
> the hell is wrong with me, given that you evidently consider yourself
> qualified to carry out such diagnoses from afar?
>
who reads these newsgroups must wonder why you attack people
who feel opposed to to bus operators' policies which refuse to offer
change. This was why I asked:
> >Do you work for NCT or summat?
Because I see no reason for your opposition that is anyway good
for anyone other than NCTs workdforce or shareholders.
Well, I've taken account of what you said below:
> I'm not really sure what a "public service authority" is supposed to
> be, but whatever it is I doubt NCT is one. NCT is a business that
> exists to make a profit for its shareholders, one of which happens to
> be the City of Nottingham. If you get shafted in the process of the
> company making a profit, well, that's business for you. So you don't
> like it? Tough.
>
> Secondly, and far more importantly, whingeing does no good at all. By
> all means go and make a formal complaint to NCT, start a media
> campaign to get NCT to give change or whatever, and bully for you if
> it works - but whingeing, whether here on a newsgroup or out there in
> the bus queue makes no difference whatsoever. It just gives the
> impression that you don't have the guts to stand up and fight for your
> beliefs.
Whinging (or as I prefer to think - discussion) has the power to
unite, to convince and to assure. NCT are able to get away with
their draconian policies because the individual has very little
power. The individual feels isolated and alone so will not stick
his neck out. He is more likely to register a formal complaint
if he knows that others feel the same way.
It was said recently that the reason the miners strikes of the
late '80s failed, while the fuel tax blockades of a couple of
months ago were so successful was entirely down to
communication. That's all whinging is - communication.
Don't stifle it please - just for the sake of having a
whinge yourself.
--
altheim
altheim
"Steve Peake" <sp...@puppet-head.co.uk> wrote:
> "WSS" <wssente...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > altheim <alt...@freeuk.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Now bikes - they really do get in the way.
> >
> > I couldn't possibly comment, but I suspect someone else might. :-)
>
> To a cross posted troll, I doubt it. Adding u.r.c, a discussion does not
> make :)
>
heard it all before; I can't be the only one that hates bikes.
--
altheim
Ivor D. Jones
aveandpat.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>Have you ever seen anyone in any pub offer Ł1.70 for a pint costing Ł1.75?
>
>Or, have you ever seen anyone complain at being charged Ł2.10 for a pint
>that is Ł1.50 in their local?
>
>Have you ever offered less than the asking price at a football ground,
>cinema, petrol station, McDonalds? No, I thought not.
>
>So why do people resent paying the correct bus fare?
>
>Regards
>Dave Farrier
>
Because they can get away with it. I once asked a 14 year old girl why
she thought it was ok for her to pay 20p for a fare costing 45p. Her
answer?
"Because I f*****g can!"
(In a loud voice heard all over the bus).
It's not worth challenging them any more; the company would far rather
put up with people paying short or even no fare at all than have to pay
the driver sick pay while he's in hospital after being attacked by
someone he challenged.
--
Regards
Ivor D. Jones
ivor....@europa1.demon.co.uk
Ebenezer Scrooge
wrote in <OiOY5.35943$R77.2...@nnrp4.clara.net>, seen in
uk.transport.buses:
>"Ebenezer Scrooge" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>> "altheim" wrote:
>> >>
>> >What the hell is wrong with you Scrooge?
>>
>> Nothing the hell wrong with me AFAIK. Care to tell me exactly what
>> the hell is wrong with me, given that you evidently consider yourself
>> qualified to carry out such diagnoses from afar?
>>
>I don't think I need any qualifications; I should think that everyone
>who reads these newsgroups must wonder why you attack people
>who feel opposed to to bus operators' policies which refuse to offer
>change.
I don't object to anyone disagreeing with me. What I *do* object to is
the 'Who Do You Think You Are To Disagree With ME' tone of "What the
hell is wrong with you?"
If someone doesn't want their postings responded to robustly, or
attacked if you prefer to call it that, they shouldn't attack others
in the first place (see accusations of being sadistic in the root
post). Once that poster makes accusations, they open themselves to
responses in kind.
>This was why I asked:
>
>> >Do you work for NCT or summat?
>
>Because I see no reason for your opposition that is anyway good
>for anyone other than NCTs workdforce or shareholders.
I don't have a remit for anyone but me. My opinion is that of a user
of both exact fare and change given local bus services - I'll tell you
this: exact fare is faster, however unfriendly it may be to the
irregular traveller. I also have experience of bus drivers being
attacked (on a change giving bus) for the few pounds in his cash tray.
>Well, I've taken account of what you said below:
>
>> I'm not really sure what a "public service authority" is supposed to
>> be, but whatever it is I doubt NCT is one. NCT is a business that
>> exists to make a profit for its shareholders, one of which happens to
>> be the City of Nottingham. If you get shafted in the process of the
>> company making a profit, well, that's business for you. So you don't
>> like it? Tough.
>>
>> Secondly, and far more importantly, whingeing does no good at all. By
>> all means go and make a formal complaint to NCT, start a media
>> campaign to get NCT to give change or whatever, and bully for you if
>> it works - but whingeing, whether here on a newsgroup or out there in
>> the bus queue makes no difference whatsoever. It just gives the
>> impression that you don't have the guts to stand up and fight for your
>> beliefs.
>
>Whinging (or as I prefer to think - discussion) has the power to
>unite, to convince and to assure. NCT are able to get away with
>their draconian policies because the individual has very little
>power. The individual feels isolated and alone so will not stick
>his neck out. He is more likely to register a formal complaint
>if he knows that others feel the same way.
That's fair enough, although I don't agree with you [*] - but do you
really think you (as in the posters who have complained) are going to
get a critical mass of NCT users/potential users in a post crossposted
to a group that is almost guaranteed to bite at what it takes to be a
troll?
I wouldn't post to a Nottingham newsgroup accusing residents of being
arseholes and then expect a polite reply, so how could anyone
seriously expect a helpful reply from a group of bus people when the
initial posting accuses their colleagues of being sadists?
Horses for courses: you are not going to reach a useful number of
local residents by posting to newsgroups given that they, after all, a
minority interest. You do, however, stand a pretty good chance of
pissing off the people who could advise on sensible alternatives with
the method of approach.
[*] I have 10 years of experience of trying to get people, paying
customers, to make formal complaints, complaints that would actually
be of financial benefit as they'd get a proportional refund from them.
You'd be amazed at how many people will *not* make formal complaints
but will whinge like f$ck. *That* is why I am so anti-whingeing.
>It was said recently that the reason the miners strikes of the
>late '80s failed, while the fuel tax blockades of a couple of
>months ago were so successful was entirely down to
>communication.
I wouldn't agree with that, either. I know a fair few ex-miners,
people who lost their jobs after the miners strike, and I'm a union
member myself, of one of the allegedly militant unions. I know just
how hackneyed a view this country has of union activities.
AAMOI, do you remember the miners strikes yourself? No criticism of
your position inherent there, I'm just interested.
Stevie D
> In don't think anyone here said they resented paying the *correct*
> fare - it's the *overpaying* I resent. The expectation of NCT that
> we will happily part with a fiver and surrender our rights to some
> change. It's not good enough to say we can collect the change
> from xxx depot when it actually costs more in time and travel to
> collect it. To have the *correct* fare requires one to plan journey's
> ahead. That means no-one can just hop on a bus on a whim.
It is also very difficult for people who don't regularly travel by bus,
and so who don't know what the exact fare will be. Until a few months
ago, First Yuck had a 93p single fare from the city centre to most of
the outer suburbs - if they had expected everyone to hand over 93p
exactly, they would have driven away even more passengers!
altheim
"Ebenezer Scrooge" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> >"Ebenezer Scrooge" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> >> "altheim" wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >What the hell is wrong with you Scrooge?
> >>
> >> Nothing the hell wrong with me AFAIK. Care to tell me exactly what
> >> the hell is wrong with me, given that you evidently consider yourself
> >> qualified to carry out such diagnoses from afar?
> >>
> >I don't think I need any qualifications; I should think that everyone
> >who reads these newsgroups must wonder why you attack people
> >who feel opposed to to bus operators' policies which refuse to offer
> >change.
>
> I don't object to anyone disagreeing with me. What I *do* object to is
> the 'Who Do You Think You Are To Disagree With ME' tone of "What the
> hell is wrong with you?"
>
> If someone doesn't want their postings responded to robustly, or
> attacked if you prefer to call it that, they shouldn't attack others
> in the first place
Hey! don't you go turning this round. I joined in here because
you were doing exactly that - attacking folks whom you
called "whingers".
> >It was said recently that the reason the miners strikes of the
> >late '80s failed, while the fuel tax blockades of a couple of
> >months ago were so successful was entirely down to
> >communication.
>
> I wouldn't agree with that, either. I know a fair few ex-miners,
> people who lost their jobs after the miners strike, and I'm a union
> member myself, of one of the allegedly militant unions. I know just
> how hackneyed a view this country has of union activities.
>
> AAMOI, do you remember the miners strikes yourself? No criticism
> of your position inherent there, I'm just interested.
>
Yes I remember them. I was opposed to them at the time.
Not because I have anything against the miners, or the unions,
but because what they wanted would have forced up the price
of (unwanted) fossil fuel and landed a burden on taxpayers to
maintain dying coalfields. They were being unrealistic and,
whilst you could understand their desire to preserve their
industry and jobs, their actions were in conflict with the
public interest.
Why do you describe the county's view of union activities
as "hackneyed"? I would have said Scargill's activities
finally brought the country to its senses and made us see
just how selfish the unions were and how they had
brainwashed workers into a militancy ethic.
--
altheim
Ebenezer Scrooge
<x31Z5.37079$eT4.2...@nnrp3.clara.net>, seen in uk.transport.buses:
>"Ebenezer Scrooge" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>>
>> I don't object to anyone disagreeing with me. What I *do* object to is
>> the 'Who Do You Think You Are To Disagree With ME' tone of "What the
>> hell is wrong with you?"
>>
>> If someone doesn't want their postings responded to robustly, or
>> attacked if you prefer to call it that, they shouldn't attack others
>> in the first place
>
>Hey! don't you go turning this round. I joined in here because
>you were doing exactly that - attacking folks whom you
>called "whingers".
Yup, that's right. I was responding robustly to an attack on those in
*this* newsgroup, uk.transport.buses. Now, either you never saw the
root message of the crosspost or you are being hypocritical, because
what you are saying is that you feel it is perfectly acceptable for
one group of people to attack another - but not for those who are
attacked, (as quoted in the section you have carefully snipped out to
change the emphasis of my comment) to respond in kind?
All is fair in love and war; if you don't like that, stay off the
battlefield.
>> >It was said recently that the reason the miners strikes of the
>> >late '80s failed, while the fuel tax blockades of a couple of
>> >months ago were so successful was entirely down to
>> >communication.
>>
>> I wouldn't agree with that, either. I know a fair few ex-miners,
>> people who lost their jobs after the miners strike, and I'm a union
>> member myself, of one of the allegedly militant unions. I know just
>> how hackneyed a view this country has of union activities.
>>
>> AAMOI, do you remember the miners strikes yourself? No criticism
>> of your position inherent there, I'm just interested.
>
>Yes I remember them. I was opposed to them at the time.
>Not because I have anything against the miners, or the unions,
>but because what they wanted would have forced up the price
>of (unwanted) fossil fuel and landed a burden on taxpayers to
>maintain dying coalfields.
Care to explain the difference between that and, say, subsidising
farmers to maintain a dying agricultural industry and producing
unwanted food?
The only meaningful difference between the miners and the other
subsidised industries in this country is that the miners had an overly
strong (too strong, I agree) union in a nationalised industry.
>They were being unrealistic and,
>whilst you could understand their desire to preserve their
>industry and jobs, their actions were in conflict with the
>public interest.
Hmm.
I have a healthy cynicism about people quoting "the public interest"
for the simple reason that "the public interest" generally doesn't
include the interests of those people who are being told to stop
causing trouble.
You can draw any parallel you wish here between exact fare on buses
and striking miners...
>Why do you describe the county's view of union activities
>as "hackneyed"? I would have said Scargill's activities
>finally brought the country to its senses and made us see
>just how selfish the unions were and how they had
>brainwashed workers into a militancy ethic.
And leopards don't change their spots, right?
Selfish: Surprisingly enough, unions are there for the benefit of
their members. Not the employer, not the public: their members. Of
course they're selfish; just as the CBI is selfish and the buyer is
selfish: they are interested solely in those they represent. To
consider they'd be otherwise is to be naïve in the extreme.
Brainwashed: Pray tell, since when has this been North Korea?
Brainwashing is a laughable allegation made by those who can't really
justify their dislike of the fact that workers are allowed to organise
themselves into groups, or their acceptance of the fact that the Great
British Public is appallingly apathetic. Apathy makes the activists
life easier, not brainwashing. It is a fact that, like the rest of the
British people, 99% of union members can't be bothered to do much, in
this case to take part in the running of their union, and merely
follow the decisions made by those who *can* be bothered. Activism
nowadays is a right-wing thing rather than left-wing; like history it
seems to cycle...
Militancy: I'm allegedly militant. The second I put an ASLEF badge on
my uniform I became a "militant". Now, I haven't changed, I've never
voted anything left of LibDem in my life - but because I'm in a
certain union I'm a "militant". Riiight. Prior to joining ASLEF I was
in NUR/RMT, another supposedly militant union. The only militant
things about NUR in the late 80's and early 90's were the noises
coming from the Executive Committee in London and its unwillingness to
fight for its own members, believe me.
Strikes: the militant brainwashing union I joined actually insisted
that, as a trainee, I had to work through the one day strikes in 1989.
Since then I have taken part in precisely *one* strike - that's in 11
years. That strike lasted less than one *hour*. That's really holding
the country to ransom, isn't it? But that's not the impression the
media give and it's certainly not the impression people like you give
- and that's what I mean by hackneyed.
In reality those "militant, brainwashing" unions are little more than
workers councils nowadays. They spend their time doing such
desperately horrendous things as organising legal support for members
involved in accidents, representing them at serious disciplinary
hearings, assisting management in organisation of staff (in my company
all local administration is undertaken by the union as all the local
managers have long since been sacked), negotiating pay deals and that
sort of thing.
They also act as a useful buffer between management and the staff: if
an unpopular decision has to be made, such as redundancies, it is
negotiated between union and management, and it is the union that
generally takes the flak from the members, not the management.
Of course, if you're a Daily Mail journalist the unions are trying to
sell the country to the communists and all union members should be
transported or shot. It worked for the Tolpuddle Martyrs, didn't it?
David Farrier
altheim <alt...@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:OiOY5.35943$R77.2...@nnrp4.clara.net...
> It was said recently that the reason the miners strikes of the
> late '80s failed, while the fuel tax blockades of a couple of
> months ago were so successful was entirely down to
> communication.
SO successful?
Please explain.
Do you mean fuel is now the same price as it was before the "blockades"
(hang on there were no blockades, just peaceful freedom fighters stood
around outside Stanlow)?
Do you mean that the health service has had to fork out a fortune on
stock-piling supplies and having huge reserve fuel tanks installed?
Do you mean that the country now panics a queues to empty every filling
station whenever the news says "there is NO need to panic buy"?
Do you mean that fuel will come down 2p next April (my God that was worth
crippling the country for)?
OR do you mean that the lorry drivers who were acting in MY interests (so
they kept telling me) have had theit tax discs reduced by £1000?
Remember that fuel prices to bus companies have gone UP because of "locked
in" contracts.
As John Lennon said, "The side that wins the war writes the history".
Its only taken 3 months to rewrite it.
Regards
Dave Farrier
altheim
"David Farrier" <DFAR...@daveandpat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> altheim <alt...@freeuk.com> wrote:
>
> > It was said recently that the reason the miners strikes of the
> > late '80s failed, while the fuel tax blockades of a couple of
> > months ago were so successful was entirely down to
> > communication.
>
> SO successful?
> Please explain.
> Do you mean fuel is now the same price as it was before the "blockades"
I take you point, but it was successful in the sense that it was effective
when compared to the months-long struggle that the miners endured.
--
altheim
fast.moggy
"Timbo" <tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:MrWX5.2078$lw2....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
> "Toby A Inkster Esq" <tob...@goddamn.co.you-kay> wrote in message
> news:0a403tg2gv7af8oim...@4ax.com...
> > Nectarine wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >Toby A Inkster Esq said:
> > >
> > >: Again, the bus driver is only serving the needs of his passengers who
> > >: have at least (and probably more) the urgency to get to town that you
> > >: do.
> > >
> > >Buses are terrible things. The cause pollution of the worst kind,
> emitting
> > >large particles of whassit as they do, and they ruin the environment by
> > >causing the most dreadful traffic jams. In Turkey public transport
> consists
> > >of little mini-vans, small and frequent.
> >
> > Yes, but typically a bus holds around 30 people. Looking at the
> > contents of an average car, you'll see one or two people. If the
> > occupants of the bus were to instead drive cars, you'd have about 20
> > extra cars on the road which, believe me, would be a much bigger
> > threat both to the environment and traffic.
> >
>
>
> I think you'll find that the majority of bus passengers do not own/cannot
> afford/have no access to a car.
>
> Timbo
>
>
Just one point limbo
Can you explain to the group why people drive their cars to a park and ride
site and use the bus?
Are you saying that only people who use the bus are poor?
Or are you being an elitist by saying " hey look at me i can afford to drive
a car"?
Get real...Buses are just another means of transportation.
Can you imagine what the city would be like if all the passengers got into
their cars? i bet you would be moaning like the rest of us about congestion
on the roads. Think of a bus as 40 potential cars in front of you. QED
fast.moggy
> You just finished work Moggy?
> Or just woke up?
> You certainly got a lot to say all of a sudden.
> LOL
>
> "fast.moggy" <fast....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:cKQX5.1045$lw2....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> >
> > "Tim Emanuel" <t...@cantona.org.uk> wrote in message
> > news:slrn92ts4...@cantona.org.uk...
> > > On Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:40:14 -0000, Dave Harrington wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Fumes aren't really a problem with a modern, well-maintained bus, but
> > poorly
> > > >maintained buses seem to be a problem with some smaller companies.
> > However,
> > >
> > > Like Nottingham City Transport? Is there ever not a broken down bus
> > somewhere
> > > on HUcknall Road in Top Valley?
> > >
> > > Tim.
> > Ever asked yourself why the company won't put decent buses in the
> > bulwell/top valley area?
> >
> >
> >
>
Sorry fat ted i was busy in the real world!
fast.moggy
>
> "Gavin Gillespie" <ga...@giltbrooks.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:OHSX5.1395$lw2....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> > "Andrew Harrison" <andrew....@miltonabbey.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:90ofk6$l9k$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >
> > > And if he let you on, where would that 2p come from? His own pocket.
> > > Drivers are, in most cases, responsible for any unders or overs that
> > > turn up in their float. Now, imagine that, say, 100-odd people tried
> > > this with you every day. Upon return to the garage, would you be
> > > willing to get Ł2 out of your pocket to make it all add up? Thought
> > not.
> >
> > passengers not having the correct fare and overpaying, that extra money
> > goes to the drivers, is this true?
> > for a 50 pence fare, the driver would be Ł50.00 per day better off, or
> > Ł250.00 per week. Does the tax man know about this?
> >
>
> Interesting point, Gavin - if drivers do get to pocket excess payments,
this
> takes their level of abuse into an entirely new dimension.
>
> I'd be surprised if the bus operator knew about this, let alone the
taxman.
>
>
All money that goes in the hopper goes to the company NOT the driver as a
bus may have up to 6 drivers on it whist it is on the road on a particular
day!
As for the tax man well he still gets his bit believe me!
fast.moggy
> "RELL6G" <n...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:zqwM6CAH...@bcvr.demon.co.uk...
> > The company benefit from any 'overs' - on exact fare vehicles the cash
> > box is only removed once the vehicle arrives at its depot at the end
> of
> > the working day. Upon removal the box locks itself until attached to
> the
> > counting machine. Basically the driver does not get to touch a penny
> on
> > an exact fare vehicle so your 'entirely new dimension of abuse'
> > allegation doesn't stand up to a deal there.......
>
> Thanks for the clarification on this matter, this is what I would have
> expected to happen, but a bit different from the posting by Andrew
> Harrison, which stated that drivers are responsible for overs and
> unders, and would have to make up the difference if under, but failed to
> mention what happens if over.
> Do the drivers really have to make up any shortfall? If so, it seems
> that the bus company wins all round, if short the driver makes up the
> missing amount, if over, the company pockets it.
>
> Gavin
> --
> Gavin Gillespie
> Nottingham UK
> e-mail use ga...@giltbrook.co.uk
> Website www.giltbrook.co.uk
>
>
Drivers are only responseable for 'SHORTS' if they are 'cash accountable'
ie taking cash by hand. and yes we do have to pay any shortcommings! there
are no overs as we give change!
fast.moggy
"Ivor D. Jones" <ivor....@nospam.uk> wrote in message
news:bdHNjBAJ...@europa1.demon.co.uk...
> In article <90rkjm$501$3...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, David Farrier <DFARRIER@d
> aveandpat.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
£1.75?
> >
> >that is £1.50 in their local?
> >
> >Have you ever offered less than the asking price at a football ground,
> >cinema, petrol station, McDonalds? No, I thought not.
> >
> >So why do people resent paying the correct bus fare?
> >
> >Regards
> >Dave Farrier
> >
>
> Because they can get away with it. I once asked a 14 year old girl why
> she thought it was ok for her to pay 20p for a fare costing 45p. Her
> answer?
>
> "Because I f*****g can!"
>
> (In a loud voice heard all over the bus).
>
> It's not worth challenging them any more; the company would far rather
> put up with people paying short or even no fare at all than have to pay
> the driver sick pay while he's in hospital after being attacked by
> someone he challenged.
> --
>
> Regards
>
> Ivor D. Jones
> ivor....@europa1.demon.co.uk
Its true that children can do what they please as we cannot refuse them!
Company policy and common sense !
fast.moggy
There are services operated by NCT that do give change like service
1-2-2a-2b-2x-63-64-94 and a few others but they operate mainly outside the
CITY area.
Dont get me wrong i think its diabolical that we have to say " exact fare"
to one and all but that's company policy NOT a drivers policy
And for the record ive never chucked anyone off for being 2p short not even
10p but that's just me.
pmailkeey
Any TWM bus drivers lurking ?
http://john.nelson.free.fr
"Nectarine" <foa...@the.mouth> a écrit dans le message news:
3qQX5.1062$tR1....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
> Toby A Inkster Esq said:
>
> : Again, the bus driver is only serving the needs of his passengers who
> : have at least (and probably more) the urgency to get to town that you
> : do.
>
> Buses are terrible things. The cause pollution of the worst kind,
emitting
> large particles of whassit as they do, and they ruin the environment by
> causing the most dreadful traffic jams. In Turkey public transport
consists
> of little mini-vans, small and frequent.
>
>
In fact I read somewhere that buses have always been more environmentally
friendly that cars - they do not out churn as much pollution (more so with
Euro standard engines) and as someone has pointed out - a 40 seater bus
would take maybe 20 or more cars off the road.
I can remember helping to do a survey once on numbers of occupants in cars
travelling into a city centre one morning rush hour. Would it surprise you
to know nearly all had one occupant?
Personally I think bus drivers have a lot on their plate with todays traffic
conditions caused by inconsiderate car drivers. If you want to see the kings
of idiot car drivers come to France sometime, where public transport isn't
depended on so much.
I believe the crux of the problem is the stigma of taking the bus. Mondeo
Man is going to complain about bus drivers to their hearts content - because
never in a million years will they take a bus. Motorists mainly see this as
a step down in class to use public transport and see buses as an obstacle
rather than a method to travel easily and without stress into the city
centre. It's a pity they do not take this option and use the bus - it's
cheaper and environmentally friendly!
As for my part count yourselves lucky there are an abundance of buses
available to use with various driver shortages. Where I live to the south of
Paris, I am about 3 miles from my nearest rail station and have a bus
service that operates twice a day and is useless. As a non car user I have
to get on my bike to travel - and being in France I can take my bike onto
the train.
Back in my native Leicester the bus was frequent, clean, and used a lot at
peak hours - bit difficult to get used to not having that...
Don't take the bus for granted, and look on it as a great method to get
around - rather than an obstacle on the road for those car users! Come on,
drop that stigma against taking the bus!
John.
Timbo
"http://john.nelson.free.fr" <nelson...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:91dc20$1ee$1...@wanadoo.fr...
> Don't take the bus for granted, and look on it as a great method to get
> around - rather than an obstacle on the road for those car users! Come on,
> drop that stigma against taking the bus!
>
> John.
>
Buses are, doubtlessly, a valued public service.
Beneficial to the both the young and elderly, they furthermore strip the
indolent of an excuse for not being able to journey to their place of
employement!
BUT your idealisms are blissfully ignorant to the cruel realities of life.
I, for one, have no intention of switching to public transport.
I, for one, have no wish to see my weekly shopping trampled by a horde of
thoughtless students as they raceingly pile out to the nearest liquor store.
I, for one, have no desire to board a vehicle infested with pre-pubescent
harlots, openly inviting any propinquitous male to expose his penis.
I, for one, do not take pleasure in sitting in front of a young whore,
relentless fellating her middle-aged 'boyfriend', as a wretched vagrant
masturbates frantically in a still-warm seat recently vacated by an old
lady.
I, for one, am repulsed by the foul stench of marijuana eminating from the
inevitable gang of rastafarians on the back row.
I, for one, see no reason to have to traverse the rivers of urine, awash
with excrement and used contraceptives, that continually seem to flood the
upstairs aisle.
I, for one, do not wish to be exposed to the poignant screams of a young
child, his face lacerated by the glass from a broken Budweiser bottle,
carelessly hurled down the aisle by an ignorant youth - watching his
screaming and defenceless mother taunted by jibes of 'WASSSUPP!'.
I, for one, shall stick to my car!
Timbo
http://john.nelson.free.fr
public transport, I never have... :-)
Leyland 91
"Timbo" <tim.ph...@ntlworld.com> a écrit dans le message news:
qKs_5.6773$T%5.9...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Pete Baggett
"http://john.nelson.free.fr" <nelson...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
|You must live in a pretty odd place to experience those sorts of things on
|public transport, I never have... :-)
|
|Leyland 91
|
I certainly haven't noticed it on the 102 Newbury Buses service that
I've been using to get to work for the last fortnight.
--
Pete Baggett <pe...@wulfrunian.net>
My Web Page:-
www.wulfrunian.net
(Trolleybus page www.under2wires.co.uk)
http://john.nelson.free.fr
g6qk3t49sbv33mit1...@4ax.com...
Perhaps it might get motorists out of the car and on to the bus judging by
all the frolic-ing going on **LOL**
Leyland 91
Ebenezer Scrooge
<nelson...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in <91dm5i$sf4$1...@wanadoo.fr>, seen in
uk.transport.buses:
>You must live in a pretty odd place to experience those sorts of things on
>public transport, I never have... :-)
That's because he's a troll. You don't get many buses stopping beneath
bridges, so he has strange ideas about what occurs on them that are
based mainly on what happens in his fevered imagination.
http://john.nelson.free.fr
"Ebenezer Scrooge" <post-master@[127.0.0.1]> a écrit dans le message news:
gr0l3tgcljj17ts8k...@4ax.com...
Thought that was the reason why :-)
Leyland 91
David Farrier
Another wonderful advert for the City of Nottingham.
Come on Nottingham, is your city SO bad, or is Timbo's medication not strong
enough.
Regards
Dave Farrier
Ebenezer Scrooge
<91ebcd$6hb$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, seen in uk.transport.buses:
>is Timbo's medication not strong enough.
Latter. Or he's not taking it at all.
Nottingham's OK. So are most of the residents...
Followsoc8213
<post-master@[127.0.0.1]> writes:
>That's because he's a troll. You don't get many buses stopping beneath
>bridges, so he has strange ideas about what occurs on them that are
>based mainly on what happens in his fevered imagination.
>
What about Greengate Arches in Salford you used to get loads of LUT buses
there.
Ian Roberts, Pendleton, Salford