Coach - Camper Conversion
Dan McKenzie
Im hoping someone here can help, I thinking of buying a coach and converting
it into a camper. I have seen a Jonckheere Scania 52 seater for resonable
money.
Can anyone tell me what the requirements are to drive such a thing, its not
for hire or reward, and would only be for my family, I would like to travel
around europe, what would the european states think about it? I have held a
full car and bike licence since 1983, but dont any HGV or Bus licences
Any help, advice or web links would be appreciated
--
Dan McKenzie
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Dave
you can drive it on a car licence, save for the following:
For use in Great Britain you can do as above with up to 8 seats (PLUS
DRIVER), so if you're just going with family and friends then you'll be ok.
If I remember the Scania/ Jonkheere combination it weighed in at about 11
tonnes, so you'll have a hell of a job getting it down to 7.5 tonnes-
remember you'll probably be adding furnishings into it as well.
Removing the seats might save you about a tonne. It depends upon the body-
whether its a highliner or a std. If it was me, I would look more at a
lightweight Bedford with Plaxton Supreme bodywork. I've sold a couple to
people doing just what you are planning. The Bedford option can easily be
brought down to under 7.5 tonnes and would do you fine. I'd really give a
miss to a heavy Scania for such a conversation.
Regards,
DS
Dave
check this link out
http://www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/drvmbus.htm
It depends upon whether your licence has D1 or not will determine whether
you can drive upto 8 or 16
DS
wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk
> It depends upon whether your licence has D1 or not will determine whether
> you can drive upto 8 or 16
Read the site carefully - those (such as me) without D1 can still drive
minibuses in the UK only not for hire or reward - but there is a new
weight limit of 3500kg, and I believe the H&R criteria are stricter.
Neil
Ian Henden
"Dan McKenzie" <dan.mc...@bunkertours.com> wrote in message
news:at9td9$111n3h$1...@ID-172593.news.dfncis.de...
Owens
the seats to bring it down to carrying 8 personns, when you come to retest
it at your local test centre, the Vehicle Inpsectorate will almost certainly
see it as a HGV if you carry anything bigger than a sandwich box!
And then there's the Road Tax....... PCV, HGV, or bloody big Transit Van?
The local DVLA will have no idea (so they'll charge you highest).
As for the driving licence, I'm sure it would have to be HGV or PCV because
of the vehicles length.
Neil
"Dan McKenzie" <dan.mc...@bunkertours.com> wrote in message
news:at9td9$111n3h$1...@ID-172593.news.dfncis.de...
Mark G Phillips
<dan.mc...@bunkertours.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>Im hoping someone here can help, I thinking of buying a coach and converting
>it into a camper. I have seen a Jonckheere Scania 52 seater for resonable
>money.
>
>Can anyone tell me what the requirements are to drive such a thing, its not
>for hire or reward, and would only be for my family, I would like to travel
>around europe, what would the european states think about it? I have held a
>full car and bike licence since 1983, but dont any HGV or Bus licences
>Any help, advice or web links would be appreciated
This has already been covered in the uk.rec.motorcaravans newsgroup.
Basically you don't need a PCV licence if the vehicle has 17 or less
seats and isn't being driven for hire/reward. You can drive a bus or
coach converted to a motorhome on a full car licence, provided that:
(a) the licence was obtained before Jan 1997, (when the 3500kg limit
for class C1 came into force), so you have a class C1 limit of 7500kg
and
(b) provided the motorhome has been re-registered as a Private Heavy
Goods Vehicle (weight between 3500 & 7500 kg).
The road tax, or VED for a PHGV is currently only 5 pounds dearer than
a normal car tax disc, so there's no reason not to.
If your motorhome weighs more than 7500kg, then you should get a class
C licence. Some people don't bother, basically stating that a Private,
non-goods carrying motorhome isn't a goods vehicle. But it's a grey
area and it's not worth the risk. Personally, I say that as it's
licenced as a Private Heavy GOODS Vehicle, then if it's over 7500kg,
you need a class C licence to drive it.
The other thing to note is C1E entitlement, HGV+Trailer. On a full car
licence it's only 8250kg (i.e. a vehicle on the 7500kg limit is only
able to tow a trailer of 750kg), which isn't a lot. Especially if you
want to tow a car on a trailer (towing cars with an a-frame is a legal
minefield, even if people do do it), behind your mobile palace...
Do a search on Google newsgroups in uk.rec.motorcaravans for the "law
& heavy motorhomes" thread.
Remember also that you should (strictly speaking), ditch (or at least
unbolt, so they're not "fitted") the majority of the seats in the
bus/coach when you drive it from where you bought it, to where you
plan to convert it, if you haven't got a PCV licence.
Other places you might want to look at on the web are:
the self-build motorcaravanners club: www.sbmcc.com
the motorcaravan newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcaravans
Mark.
--
It may not be all the "Stuff" in the Universe that's important,
it may be the spaces in between....
Dave
an MOT 4 which makes it very big car...
Check the VI website for details
"Owens" <neil_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:atdj17$136ejk$1...@ID-50470.news.dfncis.de...
Dave
a LGV/HGV (unless more than 8/ 16 seats fittend, then PCV).
If it is under 7500Kg (and less than 8/16 seats) then it will be classed as
a private vehicle and can be driven on a standard car licence.
This is why I said a Scania would not be the ideal vehicle as there is
little hope of getting it down to 7500Kg. A Bedford/ Plaxton would be the
best option as it is a leightweight chassis and can easily be brought down
below the weight threshold.
wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk
> If it is under 7500Kg (and less than 8/16 seats) then it will be classed as
> a private vehicle and can be driven on a standard car licence.
Pre 1997, when the 3500Kg limit was introduced, of course.
Neil
Dave
before 1997.
RELL6G
<nospam...@hotmail.com> writes
>Quite, but the chap in question has already stated he held a licence from
>before 1997.
Isn't there a possible requirement that he might have to prove he has
driven buses (not for hire & reward of course) using his car licence in
order to qualify for grandfather rights?
--
RELL6G
For emails change nospam to bcvr
Proper buses at http://www.typetwo.fsnet.co.uk/bristol1.html
Dave
"RELL6G" <n...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:wFM8xdA7hj$9E...@bcvr.demon.co.uk...
RELL6G
<nospam...@hotmail.com> writes
>"RELL6G" <n...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:wFM8xdA7hj$9E...@bcvr.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <atj40l$ra$1...@sparta.btinternet.com>, Dave
>> <nospam...@hotmail.com> writes
>> >Quite, but the chap in question has already stated he held a licence from
>> >before 1997.
>>
>> Isn't there a possible requirement that he might have to prove he has
>> driven buses (not for hire & reward of course) using his car licence in
>> order to qualify for grandfather rights?
>No. Either his licence says a date before 1997 or it does not.
>
Hmmmm, so anyone who holds a car licence issued on a date before 1997
can quite freely take a large vehicle out on the road having never
driven one let alone having not received any formal tuition to do the
same (in particular where length, width, height and air brakes are
concerned), not a terribly safe situation if I might say so..........
wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk
> Hmmmm, so anyone who holds a car licence issued on a date before 1997
> can quite freely take a large vehicle out on the road having never
> driven one let alone having not received any formal tuition to do the
> same (in particular where length, width, height and air brakes are
> concerned), not a terribly safe situation if I might say so..........
I don't think it's quite that clear-cut. There is another cutoff
date (much longer ago) which was when normal licenses stopped being
valid for a bus of any size not for hire or reward and started being
restricted to 17 seats (incl. driver). I think grandfather rights
are required for the retention of the bus part of this older license
in some way. This wouldn't apply if the bus was under 7.5 tonnes
and only had 17 seats in total including the driver, as that would
be a minibus and come under the D1 category even though it looked
like a coach.
Pre-97 vs. post-97 *is*, however, a simple cutoff. Pre-97 you can
drive up to 7.5 tonnes GVW without an additional test. Post-97 the
limit is 3.5 tonnes GVW. There is one exception to the post-97 rules
which can help with those who wish to drive heavier accessible minibuses
on occasion; there is an extra allowance of (I think) 750kg for disabled
lift equipment fitted to such a minibus.
The loss of D1 also means that you're generally restricted to 9
(including driver), but there is an exception to this which means
you effectively still have D1 not for hire or reward *in the UK only*,
but with a 3.5 tonne limit still applying. In practice this means
no large minibuses, though, as the 17-seater LDVs and Merc Sprinters
(don't know about Transits) are all (just) over the weight limit.
Neil
Mark G Phillips
wrote:
If it makes you any happier, if you renew the licence, then they're
removed unless you do something about it.
See:
http://www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/drvmbus.htm
"New rules from 1 January 1998"
Dave
What is certainly worrying is incompetent government departments havent
worked out that a decker with only, say, 6 seats left is, as you say a
bloody big bus, yet can easily be made less than 7.5 tonnes. And wether it's
for h&r or not, if you demolish a row of cars a scholl and a block of
flats-its the same whether its h&r or not.
wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk
> For what it's worth I agree with you totally.
> What is certainly worrying is incompetent government departments havent
> worked out that a decker with only, say, 6 seats left is, as you say a
> bloody big bus, yet can easily be made less than 7.5 tonnes. And wether it's
> for h&r or not, if you demolish a row of cars a scholl and a block of
> flats-its the same whether its h&r or not.
They *have* worked it out. This is why the limit for a normal car
license is 3.5 tonnes post-97 and not 7.5 tonnes. ISTR also that
anyone renewing their car license post-97 for whatever reason
also loses D1 (minibuses) and 3.5tonnes+ unless they ask for
it to remain, which I guess many wouldn't. It can't then be
put back on without a further test. I suspect there's some
reason (potentially lost livelihoods etc) why it couldn't be
applied to all licenses retrospectively.
Note also that it's 3.5 (or 7.5) tonnes GVW, i.e. vehicle plus
driver, all passengers and all luggage etc. It *may* (I'm not
sure) be the plated weight that matters - i.e. the maximum
*permitted* for the vehicle, not just what you have in it.
Neil
Martyn Hodson
news:1fsnta...@pacersplace.org.uk...
> Dave <nospam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > For what it's worth I agree with you totally.
>
> > What is certainly worrying is incompetent government departments havent
> > worked out that a decker with only, say, 6 seats left is, as you say a
> > bloody big bus, yet can easily be made less than 7.5 tonnes. And wether
it's
> > for h&r or not, if you demolish a row of cars a scholl and a block of
> > flats-its the same whether its h&r or not.
>
> They *have* worked it out. This is why the limit for a normal car
> license is 3.5 tonnes post-97 and not 7.5 tonnes. ISTR also that
> anyone renewing their car license post-97 for whatever reason
> also loses D1 (minibuses) and 3.5tonnes+ unless they ask for
> it to remain, which I guess many wouldn't. It can't then be
> put back on without a further test. I suspect there's some
> reason (potentially lost livelihoods etc) why it couldn't be
> applied to all licenses retrospectively.
renewing licencnes however doesn't happen all that often, if you arenot on a
medically limited licence and aren't a naughty boy /girl you don't renew
your licence until you are 70. The main reason for not applying it
retrospectively is that you would get an outcry over it all, which is not a
smart move when something comes from europe.
>
> Note also that it's 3.5 (or 7.5) tonnes GVW, i.e. vehicle plus
> driver, all passengers and all luggage etc. It *may* (I'm not
> sure) be the plated weight that matters - i.e. the maximum
> *permitted* for the vehicle, not just what you have in it.
the current term is MAM which refers to design weights (as per manufacturers
vehicle plate) or the plated wieght in terms of the goods vehicle loading
plate
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wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk
> the current term is MAM which refers to design weights (as per manufacturers
> vehicle plate) or the plated wieght in terms of the goods vehicle loading
> plate
Thanks - that was the TLA I was looking for :)
Neil
Trolleybus
<jlbilli...@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you been gearing yourself up to post this for the last 18 years?