Bristol RE's
BConno9983
service with both Citybus and Ulsterbus, although they are being withdrawn
progressively as new low floors, mostly Wright bodied Volvos, are coming into
service.
A further large number are still in store, either in reserve or for
cannibalisation for spares, although some have recently been sold for scrap,
(probably to Beattie's of Hillsborough.)
These old warriors have given 20 years of sterling service, and despite the
lack of power steering and creature comforts in the cab, it is a delight to
drive one in good condition.
It remians to be seen if their successors will last even half as long
RELL6G
<snip>
>These old warriors have given 20 years of sterling service, and despite the
>lack of power steering and creature comforts in the cab, it is a delight to
>drive one in good condition.
>
Indeed, the RE is a most delightful vehicle to drive, they handle
superbly. I was so impressed I bought one in 1990 :-)
The RELL has a commendably low entrance step considering the type was
built before the low floor fad took a grip on things.
Leyland Leopards and Nationals never really came anywhere near as far as
driving was concerned and as for things like Dennis Darts I have to say
they are probably the worst things I have ever had the misfortune to
operate, appallingly crap steering lock on them you need acres to
perform an otherwise normal turning manoeuvre.
It seems the big thing with operators these days is the fact that a bus
'looks nice' and very little regard is paid to the mechanics of the
vehicle and cost effective repairs - Apparently if an Optare Excel
suffers a broken side window it's off the road for at least three days -
the window rubber runs the entire length of the thing and the windows
are a major part of the vehicles structure, so much so that in the event
of a broken window some form of support needs to be put in place until
it can be repaired.
>It remians to be seen if their successors will last even half as long
That I would doubt very much indeed! Then again they should see around
three years then the warranties they came laden with all run out :->
--
RELL6G
For emails change nospam to bcvr
Tony Dale
>These old warriors have given 20 years of sterling service, and despite the
>lack of power steering and creature comforts in the cab, it is a delight to
>drive one in good condition.
>
>It remians to be seen if their successors will last even half as long
I seem to remember that politics played a part in the RE model being
made available in Northern Ireland after mainland companies were
forced to take Nationals. I know that Rossendale had P Reg buses with
East Lancs bodies, similar to the N-Reg variety (YCW 846-850N) at
Burnley, but I seem to think that only Ireland got them later, because
their companies positively refused the National. And POLITICS reared
its ugly head.
I feel that it was a shame that a tried and tested chassis, with
various body versions, was discontinued just because the government of
the day wished to improve the employment statistics in West
Cumberland, at the expense of Suffolk. Go on Kevin Dean, your
comments!
Tony Dale
"Many a man who thinks to found a home discovers
that he has merely opened a tavern for his friends."
Norman Douglas (1868 - 1952)
Bill Headley
>I seem to remember that politics played a part in the RE model being
>made available in Northern Ireland after mainland companies were
>forced to take Nationals.
At the time Ulsterbus/Citybus were Leyland's biggest customer and had a
great deal of clout with Leyland.
, but I seem to think that only Ireland got them later, because
>their companies positively refused the National. And POLITICS reared
>its ugly head.
I remember Ken Middleton (the then Ulsterbus fleet engineer) telling of two
Leyland executives who were dispatched to Ulsterbus's head office in Belfast
to tell Ulsterbus that there would be no more RE's available and that they
had to buy Nationals. (Ulsterbus had tried the 7th one built as a
demonstrator and hated it as it was completely non standard) They came to
see him on a Friday and he was not happy at their news. As the meeting drew
to a close, the Leyland executives must have been feeling quite smug at
finally having got one over on Ulsterbus when Ken asked them what they had
planned for the weekend. They replied that they were going home and asked
him about what he was doing.
He replied that he had been invited to Dublin by Japanese truck manufacturer
Hino to discuss their plans for a new right hand drive rear engined bus
which they were prepared to build and assemble in Ireland for the European
market.
On Monday morning Ulsterbus received a call asking how many more RE's they
wanted ! Politics had nothing to do with it - it was sheer commercialism !
Ulsterbus never liked the National as it also at the time owned a share of
Alexander's body plant at Mallusk and so needed to put orders there for
bodies rather than buy completely built up vehicles !
Bill
Martin Young
www.irishtransporttrust.freeserve.co.uk
BConno9983 <bconn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000305081229...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
> Translink N Ireland still has a substantial fleet of Alexander bodied
RELL's in
> service with both Citybus and Ulsterbus, although they are being withdrawn
> progressively as new low floors, mostly Wright bodied Volvos, are coming
into
> service.
>
> A further large number are still in store, either in reserve or for
> cannibalisation for spares, although some have recently been sold for
scrap,
> (probably to Beattie's of Hillsborough.)
>
Martin Young
Dave Root
>Indeed, the RE is a most delightful vehicle to drive, they handle
>superbly. I was so impressed I bought one in 1990 :-)
>
>The RELL has a commendably low entrance step considering the type was
>built before the low floor fad took a grip on things.
>
>Leyland Leopards and Nationals never really came anywhere near as far as
>driving was concerned
I've never experienced an RE from the driving seat, but judging by
your comments I will have to make sure I do, as I always thought the
National 2 was quite a good "driver's bus".
<thinks> I'll be 23 soon [1], so maybe I'll be able to talk an RE
owner into letting me have a drive... :-)
>and as for things like Dennis Darts I have to say
>they are probably the worst things I have ever had the misfortune to
>operate, appallingly crap steering lock on them you need acres to
>perform an otherwise normal turning manoeuvre.
Especially if they have ruddy great heavy gas tanks on the roof, a
transmission descended from a certain marsupial, and are allocated to
a route with a right turn around a small roundabout on a downward
slope :-(((
[1] What does being 23 have to do with it, you ask? Seemingly a lot
more than having a PSV licence, when it comes to getting insurance to
drive old buses. No matter that I spend 35 hours a week carrying 50
fare paying passengers on buses ten feet longer, with twice the BHP,
and capable of an extra 25mph. Oh no. But if I were 23, I could take a
driving test in a Mini and then drive a ten ton Atlantean the next
day... </rant>
--
Dave Root
dave(a)quackduck.freeserve.co.uk (spamtrapped)
http://www.quackduck.freeserve.co.uk/
Bill Headley
Martin Young wrote in message <8a3v7l$elc$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>...
RELL6G
kduck.freeserve.co.uk> writes
<snip>
>I've never experienced an RE from the driving seat, but judging by
>your comments I will have to make sure I do, as I always thought the
>National 2 was quite a good "driver's bus".
True enough, the 'tin' 2 was/is certainly far superior to the series 1
(more thrash value as well!) It was said in some circles that the
Gardner engined series 2 was perhaps the ultimate RE in some ways.
Having the radiator at the front certainly helped for one thing even if
the gearbox was behind the rear axle (on the RE it was some way in
front, a most excellent design feature).
Another point regarding the series 2 was the claim that Bristol
engineers were largely responsible for it ?
>
><thinks> I'll be 23 soon [1], so maybe I'll be able to talk an RE
>owner into letting me have a drive... :-)
:-)
>
>>and as for things like Dennis Darts I have to say
>>they are probably the worst things I have ever had the misfortune to
>>operate, appallingly crap steering lock on them you need acres to
>>perform an otherwise normal turning manoeuvre.
>
>Especially if they have ruddy great heavy gas tanks on the roof, a
>transmission descended from a certain marsupial, and are allocated to
>a route with a right turn around a small roundabout on a downward
>slope :-(((
>
>[1] What does being 23 have to do with it, you ask? Seemingly a lot
>more than having a PSV licence, when it comes to getting insurance to
>drive old buses. No matter that I spend 35 hours a week carrying 50
>fare paying passengers on buses ten feet longer, with twice the BHP,
>and capable of an extra 25mph. Oh no. But if I were 23, I could take a
>driving test in a Mini and then drive a ten ton Atlantean the next
>day... </rant>
>
Strange how certain relevant things are never taken into consideration
really.
Continuing the theme of vehicle handling, moving on to double deck types
the Bristol VR wins hands down, not unlike the RE it corners as though
it is running on rails and the big plus point on the ECW body is that
the driver has ample room to arrange the veritable rainforest needed
(you know, price lists (as I call 'em!) running cards etc.) and still
leave every warning light and the instruments fully visible.
The Atlantean isn't too bad although I found the floor mounted air
change awkward to reach and as for those with an electric change the
'big bent stick' was a nightmare! That said though I always found it
great fun making the cooling fan howl on them when passing buildings and
the like :-)
The Fleetline is quite a delight to drive, not that any speed records
would be broken with these honest work horses! Examples fitted with
'Autosteer' were quite entertaining. Perhaps one of the less than better
examples is the London DMS complete with barrel windscreen and a
terrible blind spot to the driver's right, the gear selector is also
positioned seemingly miles away too! The air assisted accelerator was
well useful though, it meant one wouldn't get "Gardner Knee" which can
be quite painful actually and is down to the extra effort needed to keep
the accelerator down for extended periods. For some bizarre reason the
fuel rack does it's utmost to push it up again!!
Early semi-automatic Olympians (Bristol built) seemed to have well
lively suspension and would lean quite considerably on corners when
fully laden. I found that it was a very long wait between gears to
effect a smooth change as well.
--
RELL6G
for emails change nospam to bcvr
Dave Root
>The Atlantean isn't too bad although I found the floor mounted air
>change awkward to reach and as for those with an electric change the
>'big bent stick' was a nightmare!
The right-hand National-style change on later models is much better,
in this respect at least.
One particular example I drove had very "interesting" steering, it
would turn left with the ease of a Blob, but had to be virtually
winched round to the right!
Jimboindbq
passed to North Western Road Car Co., at deregulation, and I had the pleasure
of driving quite a few of them when I worked there.
However, a real pain in the you know what, was the fact that the door control
was on the gear lever. This was somewhat inconvenient and passengers often got
caught in the doors, when you were about to pull away from bus stops - it was
not possible to open the doors quickly in such cases.
One or two REs even found their way onto the X8 express-service between Banks &
Chester. I wonder how that came about....
Regards.
Jim.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather - and
unlike his passengers, who were screaming in terror and holding onto their
seats!"
Rosbif
Tony Dale <to...@bethany67.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:38c2bd03...@news.freeserve.co.uk...
> I seem to remember that politics played a part in the RE model being
> made available in Northern Ireland after mainland companies were
> forced to take Nationals. I know that Rossendale had P Reg buses with
> East Lancs bodies, similar to the N-Reg variety (YCW 846-850N) at
> Burnley
Also Halton Transport who took the last ones to enter service in Great
Britain, 10-13 (MCK210-213P). They were tidy motors, dual door but
finished with high-backed if rather *flat* DP seats. I remember them
going into service in the winter of 1975-6: at the time I was travelling
to school some distance from home, and needed to catch three buses in
each direction, and these beasts figured very often in my itinerary.
Ultimately, I came to know the Rossendale motors too, and enjoyed their
sliding windows (which the Halton motors didn't have) which allowed one
to listen to the exhaust rather better. Whilst we're living in the past,
here's to frayed leather seat cushions and posters of Reggie Rossendale.
If anyone could send me scans of the latter I should be very grateful.
Note the obvious spamtrap in the return address.
Rosbif
Jimboindbq <jimbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000308144156...@ng-cl1.aol.com...
> The OCK-K batch of Bristol REs, which Ribble had weren't too bad
either. Some
> passed to North Western Road Car Co., at deregulation, and I had the
pleasure
> of driving quite a few of them when I worked there.
>
> However, a real pain in the you know what, was the fact that the door
control
> was on the gear lever. This was somewhat inconvenient and passengers
often got
> caught in the doors, when you were about to pull away from bus stops -
it was
> not possible to open the doors quickly in such cases.
>
used to opening the doors by disengaging the gears just as the bus
ground to a halt, but it was hard to remember not to knock the gear
selector into neutral (a good habit, and part of my auto-pilot mode)
after applying the hand brake... by which time passengers would be
attempting to pass through the doors as they started to close again.
Whoops!
I'm now reminded of a story related to me by a driver at Crosville's
Warrington depot some years back, concerning VR DVL374, which he had
driven to Liverpool on service H1 one afternoon. Each time a passenger
rang the bell the bus stopped on its nose for a second, before
continuing quite normally. The wheels would lock for a second, and one
or two passengers were thrown along the bus, though thankfully not hurt.
The driver, naturally, attracted some comments from passengers (as I did
in the above instances) who thought that he was buggering about. He had
no explanation until he realised, after it happened a few more times,
that when the bell button was being pressed a short circuit was causing
reverse gear to be engaged.
Back on topic, however, I endorse the candidacy of the Bristol RE as the
ultimate driver's bus for balancing "creature comforts" against the
feeling of control and security on the road. And who can fail to be
moved by the elegant lines of the ECW models? The other extreme, legend
has it, were the Crosville Seddon RUs which were considered death traps
by my former colleagues who had driven them. I never had the chance to
prove this for myself, arriving too late by force of my age, and none
have survived in preservation, which is still a bit of a shame. I
remember their jittery transmission noise rather fondly.
Joyce Whitchurch
wrote:
[snip]
>Leyland Leopards and Nationals never really came anywhere near as far as
>driving was concerned and as for things like Dennis Darts I have to say
>they are probably the worst things I have ever had the misfortune to
>operate
And they have something of a bad reputation for the positioning of
brake pedal and accelerator too - causing several instances of
"involuntary acceleration".
Yesterday's Yorkie Post had something about this, reporting on the
trial for dangerous driving of a bus driver in Sunderland. A Dart Mark
II "careered through a pedestrian area" and killed two pedestrians.
Defence counsel cited reports by the Cranfield Institute and the Motor
Industry Research Association which criticised the position of pedals.
See also
<http://www.ypn.co.uk/archive/070300/yp070300/news8/n8s5.htm>.
(The trial continues.)
--
Neil Worthington, Doncaster, UK
===============================
Dave Root
>On Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:55:22 +0000, RELL6G <n...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>Leyland Leopards and Nationals never really came anywhere near as far as
>>driving was concerned and as for things like Dennis Darts I have to say
>>they are probably the worst things I have ever had the misfortune to
>>operate
>
>And they have something of a bad reputation for the positioning of
>brake pedal and accelerator too - causing several instances of
>"involuntary acceleration".
>
>Yesterday's Yorkie Post had something about this, reporting on the
>trial for dangerous driving of a bus driver in Sunderland. A Dart Mark
>II "careered through a pedestrian area" and killed two pedestrians.
>Defence counsel cited reports by the Cranfield Institute and the Motor
>Industry Research Association which criticised the position of pedals.
Dennis Darts have been known to give "power surges" - I spoke to a
driver in Oxford who had experienced this - the bus leapt forward
"with the sort of power you only dream of from a Dart" and hit a car,
whose driver asked our driver if her foot had slipped on the clutch,
and was somewhat surprised when told the bus was fully-automatic.
Fortunately - well, for our driver at least - this had happened on
Darts before (elsewhere) and the company accepted this. Doesn't
inspire confidence when driving Darts, really...
Compare the Stagecoach B6 which entered Queen Street (pedestrianised
shopping street in central Oxford) at what was estimated to be 35mph,
taking a chunk out of an OBC Dart's side and launching a wheely bin at
a cyclist, before coming to rest in the back of an OBC B10B. IIRC, the
driver said the throttle had stuck, but a Ministry investigation found
"no defect" and blamed "driver error".
BConno9983
numbers of ex GB buses, which often ran in their original colours for some
time, but not maybe the type of politics you think.
At that time both Citybus and Ulsterbus were losing vehicles due to hijackings,
rioting and terrorist damage, and replacements had to be obtained wherever they
could be got. Most were disposed of fairly quickly, especially the ex LT
single deckers, Daimlers I think, but I cannot be sure
Gordon Brown
<joyce.wh...@sheffieldbusmuseum.com> writes
>On Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:55:22 +0000, RELL6G <n...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>Leyland Leopards and Nationals never really came anywhere near as far as
>>driving was concerned and as for things like Dennis Darts I have to say
>>they are probably the worst things I have ever had the misfortune to
>>operate
>
>And they have something of a bad reputation for the positioning of
>brake pedal and accelerator too - causing several instances of
>"involuntary acceleration".
>
>Yesterday's Yorkie Post had something about this, reporting on the
>trial for dangerous driving of a bus driver in Sunderland. A Dart Mark
>II "careered through a pedestrian area" and killed two pedestrians.
>Defence counsel cited reports by the Cranfield Institute and the Motor
>Industry Research Association which criticised the position of pedals.
The Volvo B6BLE has a similar 'close pedal' problem. I had a narrow
squeak with one doing a 'U' turn into a bus lay-by, realised what the
problem was and corrected it (in a matter of seconds!).
Dave Root remembered the incident where a former colleague of mine in
Oxford managed to make rather a mess of not just his bus, but two
competitors buses and a flower arrangement in just the same
circumstances. The only injury was to a cyclist (who shouldn't have been
there anyway).
I also remember reading on BBC ONLINE that a Volvo B6BLE 'ran away' in a
bus station somewhere a year or two ago and killed either one or two
ladies waiting in a bus station.
--
Gordon Brown
<All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?>
BEEPEE
Dave Root <use...@quackduck.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:38c8d02...@news.freeserve.net...
> joyce.wh...@sheffieldbusmuseum.com (Joyce Whitchurch) wrote:
>
>
> <snip>
>... the Stagecoach B6 which entered Queen Street (pedestrianised
> shopping street in central Oxford) at what was estimated to be 35mph,
> taking a chunk out of an OBC Dart's side and launching a wheely bin at
> a cyclist, before coming to rest in the back of an OBC B10B. IIRC, the
> driver said the throttle had stuck, but a Ministry investigation found
> "no defect" and blamed "driver error".
>
The 1993 built 9.0m(?) Alexander Dash B6s that First Capital use on route
236 have a tendancy to overheat, due in part to a severe lack of ventilation
in the engine compartment, as much as the fact that the route is one long
traffic jam (Finsbury Park - Hackney Wick), and the buses rarely exceed
30mph for more than a few minutes a day.
The longer wheelbase 1994 Northern Counties vehicles that Capital used on D5
didn't suffer from any overheating problems, whereas similar vehicles used
by Luton and District (as was at the time) suffered horrendously from
overheating.
Bernie
Andy Richards
Jimboindbq wrote:
>
> The OCK-K batch of Bristol REs, which Ribble had weren't too bad either. Some
> passed to North Western Road Car Co., at deregulation, and I had the pleasure
> of driving quite a few of them when I worked there.
>
> However, a real pain in the you know what, was the fact that the door control
> was on the gear lever. This was somewhat inconvenient and passengers often got
> caught in the doors, when you were about to pull away from bus stops - it was
> not possible to open the doors quickly in such cases.
>
The earlier batch of Marshall bodied RESLs had a normal door control,
which led to them being more popular in hot weather as you could drive
with the doors open and get some air in to keep the passengers cool :)
--
Andy Richards
Preston Buses Website: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/8911/
Ribble 1919-1988 Website: http://www.geocities.com/ribblebuses/
Personal Website: http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/andyrich/