Un-refunded air taxes
Joe Curry
Thank you for your contact. We are very keen to do something about un-refunded air taxes.
If you have booked a flight out of the UK anytime since 1994 you will have paid Air Passenger Duty
tax (APD) and if you have NOT flown for WHATEVER REASON you are entitled to get that tax back. The
airline only has to pay it to the Government if you actually get on the plane. If you don?t, it?s
yours to claim back. It?s a Government tax but some airlines have treated it as an additional
revenue stream.
ATAB has joined force with London law firm Barker Gillette and we intend to take the airlines to
court to refund the millions of pounds of YOUR money that they have been hanging on to.
Here?s what you need you to do; In the first place we need some basic information to see how many
of you want to proceed. If we get enough people to sign up we?ll then have to ask you for some
additional information.
Please go to http://www.atab.org.uk/action-now/reclaim-your-taxes/claims-against-uk-airlines/ to
fill out the form.
If you have done this already thank you.
If you are about to do it Thank you and we will keep you posted on our progress.
The more people who join the better our chances, so do share this with family and friends.
Your Sincerely,
The ATAB Team.
JohnT
"Joe Curry" <jcur...@HAGGISgooglemail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.28af361a8...@news.x-privat.org...
I have had to cancel flights with British Airways on several occasions and
the APD has been refunded to me promptly.
It is my understanding that Ryanair do refund the taxes but that the service
fee they charge is equal to or in excess of the amount refunded. The Easyjet
website suggests that an administration fee of £30 would be charged (per
person, but it is not clear whether that would be for both legs of a
return/round-trip flight).
And how much woulld ATAB charge as an upfront fee?
--
JohnT
Joe Curry
> I have had to cancel flights with British Airways on several occasions and
> the APD has been refunded to me promptly.
Did you pay a fee? Did you claim go through a Premium Rate phone line?
> It is my understanding that Ryanair do refund the taxes but that the service
> fee they charge is equal to or in excess of the amount refunded. The Easyjet
> website suggests that an administration fee of £30 would be charged (per
> person, but it is not clear whether that would be for both legs of a
> return/round-trip flight).
It's not just airlines.. Online CRS systems are equally guilty.
> And how much woulld ATAB charge as an upfront fee?
According to their website? Nil....
JohnT
"Joe Curry" <jcur...@HAGGISgooglemail.com> wrote in message
> In article <9al07f...@mid.individual.net>, johns...@yahoo.com
> says...
>
>> I have had to cancel flights with British Airways on several occasions
>> and
>> the APD has been refunded to me promptly.
>
> Did you pay a fee? Did you claim go through a Premium Rate phone line?
No. No.
--
JohnT
Roland Perry
2011, JohnT <johns...@yahoo.com> remarked:
>The Easyjet website suggests that an administration fee of £30 would be
>charged (per person, but it is not clear whether that would be for both
>legs of a return/round-trip flight).
Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a
similar tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
--
Roland Perry
JohnT
"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:UIh8QJMu...@perry.co.uk...
Yes, of course, for the majority of Easyjet flights. But they do fly quite a
few UK Domestic routes too.
--
JohnT
Joe Curry
> > Did you pay a fee? Did you claim go through a Premium Rate phone line?
> No. No.
A pat on the back for BA...
Joe Curry
> Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
> would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a
> similar tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
Anyone have a breakdown?
Joe Curry
> > Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
> > would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a similar
> > tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
> Yes, of course, for the majority of Easyjet flights. But they do fly quite a
> few UK Domestic routes too.
I lost our twice with Easyjet due family circumstances.
dagspot
> Anyone have a breakdown?
I would have thought if youve not already, its in the post
Roland Perry
on Sat, 13 Aug 2011, Joe Curry <jcur...@HAGGISgooglemail.com> remarked:
>> Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
>> would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a
>> similar tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
>
>Anyone have a breakdown?
KLM from Birmingham to Amsterdam return:
Ticket price 15,00
Booking fee 10,00
Fuel surcharge 60,00
Passenger service charge 14,52
Passenger service charge 14,47
Security charge 12,94
UK air passenger duty 12,69
Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00
Price (per passenger) 141,62
--
Roland Perry
tim....
Which IMHO proves that claims that APD stops people from flying, is a lie
tim
Roland Perry
2011, tim.... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
>>>> would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a
>>>> similar tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
>>>
>>>Anyone have a breakdown?
>>
>> KLM from Birmingham to Amsterdam return:
>>
>> Ticket price 15,00
>> Booking fee 10,00
>> Fuel surcharge 60,00
>> Passenger service charge 14,52
>> Passenger service charge 14,47
>> Security charge 12,94
>> UK air passenger duty 12,69
>> Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00
>>
>> Price (per passenger) 141,62
>
>Which IMHO proves that claims that APD stops people from flying, is a lie
It's the Ł120 for destinations between 2-4k miles which stops people
flying. (Almost Ł500 for a family of four).
The ticket above would be Ł24 now, which could double the price of many
tickets on a low cost carrier.
--
Roland Perry
Joe Curry
> KLM from Birmingham to Amsterdam return:
> Ticket price 15,00
> Booking fee 10,00
> Fuel surcharge 60,00
> Passenger service charge 14,52
> Passenger service charge 14,47
> Security charge 12,94
> UK air passenger duty 12,69
> Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00
> Price (per passenger) 141,62
In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
recoverable?
Joe Curry
> Which IMHO proves that claims that APD stops people from flying, is a lie
The various surcharges proving there are a lot of snouts in the trough..
dagspot
> In article <9anteaFlg...@mid.individual.net>, tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk says...
>
> > Which IMHO proves that claims that APD stops people from flying, is a lie
>
> The various surcharges proving there are a lot of snouts in the trough..
...some know all about "pig" ignorance... eh Brazzy Brigger Braeside ?
Roland Perry
on Sun, 14 Aug 2011, Joe Curry <jcur...@HAGGISgooglemail.com> remarked:
>> KLM from Birmingham to Amsterdam return:
>
>> Ticket price 15,00
>> Booking fee 10,00
>> Fuel surcharge 60,00
>> Passenger service charge 14,52
>> Passenger service charge 14,47
>> Security charge 12,94
>> UK air passenger duty 12,69
>> Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00
>
>> Price (per passenger) 141,62
>
>In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
>recoverable?
You'd have to look at the airline's T&C, but in principle I expect they
say that the fuel surcharge is not a government tax. The airport charges
neither, perhaps.
--
Roland Perry
tim....
> In message <9antea...@mid.individual.net>, at 19:03:52 on Sat, 13 Aug
> 2011, tim.... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
>>>>> would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a
>>>>> similar tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
>>>>
>>>>Anyone have a breakdown?
>>>
>>> KLM from Birmingham to Amsterdam return:
>>>
>>> Ticket price 15,00
>>> Booking fee 10,00
>>> Fuel surcharge 60,00
>>> Passenger service charge 14,52
>>> Passenger service charge 14,47
>>> Security charge 12,94
>>> UK air passenger duty 12,69
>>> Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00
>>>
>>> Price (per passenger) 141,62
>>
>>Which IMHO proves that claims that APD stops people from flying, is a lie
>
> flying. (Almost £500 for a family of four).
>
> The ticket above would be £24 now, which could double the price of many
They're the rates for first class.
Economy class is still 12 and 60
tim
tim....
"Joe Curry" <jcur...@HAGGISgooglemail.com> wrote in message
More than half the surcharges is "fuel levy", that isn't a surcharge it's
part of the normal costs of operating an airline!
tim
tim....
but the latter is a cost that they (often) won't have to pay if you don't
turn up
tim
Roland Perry
2011, tim.... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>They're the rates for first class.
And Business Class.
>Economy class is still 12 and 60
It is.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2011, tim.... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> KLM from Birmingham to Amsterdam return:
>>>
>>>> Ticket price 15,00
>>>> Booking fee 10,00
>>>> Fuel surcharge 60,00
>>>> Passenger service charge 14,52
>>>> Passenger service charge 14,47
>>>> Security charge 12,94
>>>> UK air passenger duty 12,69
>>>> Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00
>>>
>>>> Price (per passenger) 141,62
>>>
>>>In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
>>>recoverable?
>>
>> You'd have to look at the airline's T&C, but in principle I expect they
>> say that the fuel surcharge is not a government tax. The airport charges
>> neither, perhaps.
>
>but the latter is a cost that they (often) won't have to pay if you don't
>turn up
Part of the bargain you make when accepting a very cheap fare is some
restrictions in the flexibility of what you can do with it. Like change
the date or cancel. It's therefore entirely possible that despite the
itemisation you have agreed that everything except the government tax is
non-refundable.
--
Roland Perry
tim....
> In message <9apvam...@mid.individual.net>, at 14:01:08 on Sun, 14 Aug
> 2011, tim.... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>They're the rates for first class.
>
> And Business Class.
And premium economy
>
>>Economy class is still 12 and 60
>
> It is.
So why quote the other price for a family holiday then?
tim
Roland Perry
2011, tim.... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>Economy class is still 12 and 60
>>
>> It is.
>
>So why quote the other price for a family holiday then?
Because I was misinformed (press reports based on Premium Economy
pricing). But some people obviously do fly on holiday in Premium
Economy, because otherwise there wouldn't be so much of it on holiday
routes. The last time I flew long haul in Business Class, everyone else
in the cabin seemed to be on an OAP's package tour.
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
> In message <9aq7ks...@mid.individual.net>, at 16:23:07 on Sun, 14 Aug
> 2011, tim.... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>>> Economy class is still 12 and 60
>>>
>>> It is.
>>
>> So why quote the other price for a family holiday then?
>
> Because I was misinformed (press reports based on Premium Economy
> pricing). But some people obviously do fly on holiday in Premium
> Economy, because otherwise there wouldn't be so much of it on holiday
> routes.
I do on overnight flights.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>
tim....
> In message <9aq7ks...@mid.individual.net>, at 16:23:07 on Sun, 14 Aug
> 2011, tim.... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>>>Economy class is still 12 and 60
>>>
>>> It is.
>>
>>So why quote the other price for a family holiday then?
>
> Because I was misinformed (press reports based on Premium Economy
> pricing). But some people obviously do fly on holiday in Premium Economy,
> because otherwise there wouldn't be so much of it on holiday
Obviously, but people prepared to pay 300 pounds for a bigger seat aren't
going to be deterred by an extra 60 pounds tax
tim
Roland Perry
2011, tim.... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>So why quote the other price for a family holiday then?
>>
>> Because I was misinformed (press reports based on Premium Economy
>> pricing). But some people obviously do fly on holiday in Premium Economy,
>> because otherwise there wouldn't be so much of it on holiday
>
>Obviously, but people prepared to pay 300 pounds for a bigger seat aren't
>going to be deterred by an extra 60 pounds tax
I disagree, but as your mission seems to be to contradict everything I
say. Let's leave it there.
--
Roland Perry
Joe Curry
> >In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
> >recoverable?
> You'd have to look at the airline's T&C, but in principle I expect they
> say that the fuel surcharge is not a government tax. The airport charges
> neither, perhaps.
Which could be refunded if the flight wasn't taken Roland?
Joe Curry
> >>In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
> >>recoverable?
> > You'd have to look at the airline's T&C, but in principle I expect they
> > say that the fuel surcharge is not a government tax. The airport charges
> > neither, perhaps.
> but the latter is a cost that they (often) won't have to pay if you don't
> turn up
One would assume...
dagspot
> In article <9apveqFoe...@mid.individual.net>, tims_new_h...@yahoo.co.uk says...
>
> > >>In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
> > >>recoverable?
> > > You'd have to look at the airline's T&C, but in principle I expect they
> > > say that the fuel surcharge is not a government tax. The airport charges
> > > neither, perhaps.
> > but the latter is a cost that they (often) won't have to pay if you don't
> > turn up
>
> One would assume...
Your assumptions have got you into trouble before. We like FACTS and
links in here.
Roland Perry
on Mon, 15 Aug 2011, Joe Curry <jcur...@HAGGISgooglemail.com> remarked:
>> >In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
>> >recoverable?
>
>> You'd have to look at the airline's T&C, but in principle I expect they
>> say that the fuel surcharge is not a government tax. The airport charges
>> neither, perhaps.
>
>Which could be refunded if the flight wasn't taken Roland?
If they've sold you a cheap ticket on the basis that it's not
refundable, then no.
--
Roland Perry
Graham Harrison
>
> It's not just airlines.. Online CRS systems are equally guilty.
>
Rubbish.
Joe Curry
dag...@btinternet.com says...
> > One would assume...
> Your assumptions have got you into trouble before. We like FACTS and
> links in here.
A link to 'getting me in trouble'?
I should remind you that usenet is for serious debate among like-minded
individuals..your tone suggests you have a problem with that..
Joe Curry
> >Which could be refunded if the flight wasn't taken Roland?
> If they've sold you a cheap ticket on the basis that it's not
> refundable, then no.
So Air Taxes might also be included in that basis or would that be illegal?
Joe Curry
says...
> > It's not just airlines.. Online CRS systems are equally guilty.
> Rubbish.
I know of cases that pax who have booked via CRS not get taxes refunded
when flights were not taken...Even though a claim was made...
I'm sure others can vouch for that Edward...
Joe Curry
> I know of cases that pax who have booked via CRS not get taxes refunded
> when flights were not taken...Even though a claim was made...
> I'm sure others can vouch for that Edward...
I intended to include this link it be relevant.
http://www.airtaxrefund.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=main
JohnT
"Joe Curry" <jcur...@HAGGISgooglemail.com> wrote in message
The charge a fee of "€5 per person per application". The chances of getting
any money back from Ryanair are rather slight. So it really seems to me that
it is not worth any further expenditure.
--
JohnT
Roland Perry
on Tue, 16 Aug 2011, Joe Curry <jcur...@HAGGISgooglemail.com> remarked:
> >Which could be refunded if the flight wasn't taken Roland?
>
>> If they've sold you a cheap ticket on the basis that it's not
>> refundable, then no.
>
>So Air Taxes might also be included in that basis or would that be illegal?
<http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/ff76190a-e5bc-11db-9fcf-000b5df10621.html#axz
z1VC753nIX>
Is a plausible summary of the situation... not a legal requirement but
some airlines may do it, and can charge an admin fee.
A more interesting question is this: who gets to keep any unrefunded
fees? Does the airline pocket them, or are they paid to the
airport/government regardless.
An associated question would be: do airlines pay the tax, fees and
charges based on the number travelling on the day, or on the number of
tickets sold. If you are a no-show on the day, then few low-costs will
resell the seat (to a standby passenger). On the other hand the full
fare airlines have a better chance of doing that, and are also more
likely to refund the tax.
--
Roland Perry
Graham Harrison
"Joe Curry" <jcur...@HAGGISgooglemail.com> wrote in message
OK, define the term CRS for me. It's possible you and I think they are
different.
dagspot
> your tone suggests you have a problem with that..
Youve only just realised....? Theres only one problem in here, havent
you been listening to the majority ?
dagspot
> In article <MPG.28b461959d955eb9989...@news.x-privat.org>, jcurr...@HAGGISgooglemail.com says...
>
> > I know of cases that pax who have booked via CRS not get taxes refunded
> > when flights were not taken...Even though a claim was made...
> > I'm sure others can vouch for that Edward...
>
> I intended to include this link it be relevant.
Graham Harrison
"Graham Harrison" <edward.h...@remove.btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:PKCdnQA9FaWL79fT...@bt.com...
OK, If you won't, I will.
My definition is Computer Reservations System. Now, the system doesn't
make the decision to refund the passenger (assuming that the CRS has been
programmed to handle refunds - that might be a manual process). Depending
on circumstances there will be a person sitting in front of a screen
operating the CRS or there may be a web page placed in front of the CRS but
even that has to be programmed by a human who will be responsible for
whether the refund is granted, or not.
But, in the modern travel industry, the CRS is usually the system used by
the airline for reservations, fare quotation and ticketing. If an agency
is involved then they will usually be using a GDS (Global Distribution
System) such as Sabre or Galileo. But the thing about an operator or web
page still applies.