English airports fear damage from lower Scots levy if APD is devolved

[Joe Curry]

http://www.scotsman.com

Nathalie Thomas

...English airports are worried the Scottish Government would scrap or lower
levies, prompting long-haul carriers to withdraw from some of their sites
and focus on Scotland...

Full Story

http://tinyurl.com/84yd5cp

[Graeme Wall]

That would solve the third runway problem at Heathrow!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

[Joe Curry]

In article <%pRQq.104$wG6...@newsfe05.ams2>, ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk says...

> > http://tinyurl.com/84yd5cp

> That would solve the third runway problem at Heathrow!

And the current demand for slots!

[Graeme Wall]

Scalextric planes?

Oh, wrong sort of slots :-)

[Roland Perry]

In message <MPG.297df26f9...@news.x-privat.org>, at 08:38:47
on Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Joe Curry <g...@NOSPAMblueyonder.co.uk> remarked:

>...English airports are worried the Scottish Government would scrap or lower
>levies, prompting long-haul carriers to withdraw from some of their sites
>and focus on Scotland...

"It is thought a reduction in APD by Holyrood would also encourage
passengers to fly in and out of Scotland and use the train network for
onward journeys south of the Border, rather than pay higher prices to
fly to small English regional hubs, such as Robin Hood Airport on the
edge of Doncaster."

That'll be all those trains leaving at 3am to catch the early morning
flights I suppose? And a Doncaster-Edinburgh off-peak train ticket is a
shade over £100.
--
Roland Perry

[JohnT]

"Joe Curry" <g...@NOSPAMblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.297df26f9...@news.x-privat.org...

And pigs might fly!

--
JohnT

[Joe Curry]

In article <4Finj9K3...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk says...

> "It is thought a reduction in APD by Holyrood would also encourage
> passengers to fly in and out of Scotland and use the train network for
> onward journeys south of the Border, rather than pay higher prices to
> fly to small English regional hubs, such as Robin Hood Airport on the
> edge of Doncaster."

> That'll be all those trains leaving at 3am to catch the early morning
> flights I suppose? And a Doncaster-Edinburgh off-peak train ticket is a
> shade over £100.

You got it in one! Surface transport costs be it by car or train far outweighs
any saving on APD.

[Joe Curry]

In article <ZURQq.106$wG6...@newsfe05.ams2>, ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk says...

> > And the current demand for slots!

> Scalextric planes?

> Oh, wrong sort of slots :-)

There are others to add to the mix? :-)

[radar]

On Jan 16, 11:07 am, Joe Curry <g...@NOSPAMblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ZURQq.106$wG6...@newsfe05.ams2>, r...@greywall.demon.co.uk says...

>
> > > And the current demand for slots!
> > Scalextric planes?
> > Oh, wrong sort of slots :-)
>
> There are others to add to the mix? :-)

what a non story, thank god Cameron is clipping wee Ecks wings

[alex]

Yes, Cameron's done a great job this past week.

If by "great" you mean look isolated and powerless, and have to start
offering all sorts of concessions to the SNP, that is.

[radar]

Hello Alex.....cut back o te pies mate.

[alex]

> Hello Alex.....cut back o te pies mate.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Sorry, you're saying I;m wrong?

Hmm - let's look at the evidence:

Cameron wanted it sooner. Instead it's happening in Autumn 2014.

Cameron wanted it run by the Electoral Commision. Instead the Scottish
Parliament will be responsible.

Face facts - this has probably been the best week for the SNP since
the election.

[radar]

Very good wee Eck :)

[Joe Curry]

In article <07088d89-e6ab-4444...@a8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, fisher2606
@hotmail.co.uk says...

> > Face facts - this has probably been the best week for the SNP since
> > the election.

> Very good wee Eck :)

Stick to AVIATION.....

[Brigadier Curry]

On Jan 16, 9:27 pm, Joe Curry <g...@NOSPAMblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <07088d89-e6ab-4444-9b43-bdae3a7f6...@a8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, fisher2606

> @hotmail.co.uk says...
>
> > > Face facts - this has probably been the best week for the SNP since
> > > the election.
> > Very good wee Eck :)
>
> Stick to AVIATION.....

... now, lets look at some of your recent posts.

[Jon Simpson]

On Jan 16, 9:27 pm, Joe Curry <g...@NOSPAMblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <07088d89-e6ab-4444-9b43-bdae3a7f6...@a8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, fisher2606

> @hotmail.co.uk says...
>
> > > Face facts - this has probably been the best week for the SNP since
> > > the election.
> > Very good wee Eck :)
>
> Stick to AVIATION.....

LOL.... That's rich coming from you.

[Jake]

"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4Finj9K3...@perry.co.uk...

Super off peak single is £60.20 Edinburgh to London and vice versa, bought
the day before travel. Can't you just get on/off at Doncaster, or does it
come with the same restrictions as Advances?

Even if so, Doncaster isn't barriered.

[Roland Perry]

In message <3cadnRK_w6wJqILS...@giganews.com>, at 22:49:47
on Tue, 24 Jan 2012, Jake <Ja...@jakesplaice.com> remarked:

>> That'll be all those trains leaving at 3am to catch the early morning
>> flights I suppose? And a Doncaster-Edinburgh off-peak train ticket is a
>> shade over £100.
>
>Super off peak single is £60.20 Edinburgh to London and vice versa, bought
>the day before travel.

Actually it's £120.40 for the single, £121.40 for the return.

Why spend £121.40 on tickets to London when it's only a shade over £100
to Doncaster?

> Can't you just get on/off at Doncaster, or does it
>come with the same restrictions as Advances?

Break of Journey is allowed if you are determined to throw away £20.
--
Roland Perry

[Jake]

"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message

news:Q$tNda2EI...@perry.co.uk...

> In message <3cadnRK_w6wJqILS...@giganews.com>, at 22:49:47 on
> Tue, 24 Jan 2012, Jake <Ja...@jakesplaice.com> remarked:
>
>>> That'll be all those trains leaving at 3am to catch the early morning
>>> flights I suppose? And a Doncaster-Edinburgh off-peak train ticket is a
>>> shade over £100.
>>
>>Super off peak single is £60.20 Edinburgh to London and vice versa, bought
>>the day before travel.
>
> Actually it's £120.40 for the single, £121.40 for the return.
>
> Why spend £121.40 on tickets to London when it's only a shade over £100 to
> Doncaster?

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ccv1bb.jpg

[Roland Perry]

In message <4-adnc-BbOhCQILS...@giganews.com>, at 10:47:49
on Wed, 25 Jan 2012, Jake <Ja...@jakesplaice.com> remarked:

>>>Super off peak single is £60.20 Edinburgh to London and vice versa, bought
>>>the day before travel.
>>
>> Actually it's £120.40 for the single, £121.40 for the return.
>>
>> Why spend £121.40 on tickets to London when it's only a shade over £100 to
>> Doncaster?
>
>http://i42.tinypic.com/2ccv1bb.jpg

That's interesting - a web-only fare where the SSS is half the price of
the SSR. I hadn't come across them before (neither has Mr Avantix).

But it doesn't change the fact that getting from Edinburgh to Doncaster
and back will cost £120.40 using those tickets.

(And the earliest you'll get to Doncaster is about 10am, so maybe 11am
for the airport and a 1pm flight?)
--
Roland Perry

[Neil Williams]

On Jan 25, 12:25 pm, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> That's interesting - a web-only fare where the SSS is half the price of
> the SSR. I hadn't come across them before (neither has Mr Avantix).

I think East Coast were running some sort of trial.

Neil

[Roland Perry]

at 03:37:41 on Wed, 25 Jan 2012, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
remarked:

>> That's interesting - a web-only fare where the SSS is half the price of
>> the SSR. I hadn't come across them before (neither has Mr Avantix).
>
>I think East Coast were running some sort of trial.

They still are, these tickets are available for travel tomorrow (and do
need to be purchased at least a day in Advance - so much for
"simplification" of fares).

And as these aren't the regular SSS, I wonder if they are valid for BoJ
in Doncaster? (When I said they were, it was the classic Supersavers I
had in mind).
--
Roland Perry

[Mizter T]

On Jan 25, 11:25 am, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <4-adnc-BbOhCQILSnZ2dnUVZ8oqdn...@giganews.com>, at 10:47:49
> on Wed, 25 Jan 2012, Jake <J...@jakesplaice.com> remarked:

>
> >>>Super off peak single is £60.20 Edinburgh to London and vice versa, bought
> >>>the day before travel.
>
> >> Actually it's £120.40 for the single, £121.40 for the return.
>
> >> Why spend £121.40 on tickets to London when it's only a shade over £100 to
> >> Doncaster?
>
> > http://i42.tinypic.com/2ccv1bb.jpg
>
> That's interesting - a web-only fare where the SSS is half the price of
> the SSR. I hadn't come across them before (neither has Mr Avantix).
>
> But it doesn't change the fact that getting from Edinburgh to Doncaster
> and back will cost £120.40 using those tickets.
>
> (And the earliest you'll get to Doncaster is about 10am, so maybe 11am
> for the airport and a 1pm flight?)

East Coast's "Super Off-Peak Singles" (at half the price of an Off-
Peak Return, aka the old Saver) were introduced as a trial last year,
the trial seemingly got extended (or perhaps technically speaking
there were a number of consecutive trial periods), and now it would
appear to be a permanent offering, which is great:
http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/special-offers/standard-live-pages/flexible-off-peak-travel-for-less/

Quite similar to Virgin's 'half' fares (Off-peak half or Anytime
half), however these an only be purchased as part of a return journey
(intended for combining with an Advance ticket, though one is free to
combine an Off-peak half and an Anytime half) - so actually these East
Coast "Super Off-Peak Singles" offer considerably greater flexibility.

They aren't, it should be noted, available for all journeys - e.g.
they're not on offer for journeys to or from stations served by EC
north of Edinburgh - so for for say an Aberdeen to London journey it'd
be cheaper to combine a regular Aberdeen-Edinburgh single (GBP29.60)
with one of these 'half price' EC singles for Edinburgh-London
(GBP60.20) , rather than buying a straightforward Aberdeen-London Off-
Peak Single (GBP138.80) - a saving of GBP49. Which is perhaps a good
example of how welcome fares innovations that are quite welcome can
nonetheless cause complications...

[Neil Williams]

On Jan 25, 1:44 pm, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> And as these aren't the regular SSS, I wonder if they are valid for BoJ
> in Doncaster? (When I said they were, it was the classic Supersavers I
> had in mind).

No they are not - from the T&C page:-

"6. You may not start, break and resume or terminate your journey at
any intermediate station. If you do so you will have to pay extra, up
to the normal price of the Super Off-Peak Single ticket for that
journey. "

How incredibly, pig-headedly stupid.

Neil

[Neil Williams]

On Jan 26, 9:12 am, Neil Williams <pacer...@gmail.com> wrote:

> How incredibly, pig-headedly stupid.

And more to the point - if you wish to start long/stop short/BoJ, can
you buy a full-price one from the Web, or are you stuck with the idea
of being treated like a criminal, no doubt, when you do choose to BoJ?

This BoJ restriction thing is getting ridiculous, and is completely
unnecessary if fares were set sensibly. Time for someone with decent
resources to give us a test case.

Neil

[Roland Perry]

In message
<34a76fb1-b4ca-400f...@k28g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, at
00:16:21 on Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
remarked:

>And more to the point - if you wish to start long/stop short/BoJ, can
>you buy a full-price one from the Web,

Of course you can. These tickets are a *special* offer, in addition to
the regular tickets, for a few selected flows. The fact you have to buy
them the day before shows they are for pre-meditated trips, in effect
they are "AP ticket for tomorrow, on any train". Isn't that better than
"AP ticket for tomorrow, only one train"?
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message
<b9a3b6de-ff83-4ac9...@b23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, at
00:12:31 on Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
remarked:

>"6. You may not start, break and resume or terminate your journey at
>any intermediate station. If you do so you will have to pay extra, up
>to the normal price of the Super Off-Peak Single ticket for that
>journey. "
>
>How incredibly, pig-headedly stupid.

Er, no, it's yield management in action. They want to offer cheap
tickets for specific flows. In particular it's the same as the much
praised Virgin offer, except more flexible because it doesn't have to be
bought in conjunction with a fixed-train ticket in the opposite
direction.

In any case, the Edinburgh-Doncaster "full price" super off peak return
is less than a pair of these cheap singles to/from London. I'm assuming
someone using Doncaster airport in these circumstances is going on
holiday rather than emigrating!
--
Roland Perry

[Neil Williams]

On Jan 26, 9:44 am, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> Of course you can. These tickets are a *special* offer, in addition to
> the regular tickets, for a few selected flows. The fact you have to buy
> them the day before shows they are for pre-meditated trips, in effect
> they are "AP ticket for tomorrow, on any train". Isn't that better than
> "AP ticket for tomorrow, only one train"?

Then they should not be called "Super Off Peak Singles".

They are I guess the equivalent of the old Advance Saver tickets,
though those were available only as return tickets.

Neil

[Neil Williams]

On Jan 26, 9:42 am, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> Er, no, it's yield management in action. They want to offer cheap
> tickets for specific flows. In particular it's the same as the much
> praised Virgin offer, except more flexible because it doesn't have to be
> bought in conjunction with a fixed-train ticket in the opposite
> direction.

I would rather they used the VT approach and kept BoJ consistent than
used the approach they have. But in principle my view is that all
walk-up returns[1] should have a single at half their price,
increasing the price of returns if this causes revenue loss.

But as you know I don't believe in that type of yield management for
walk-up fares. To the "man in the street" it is confusing and just
results in unnecessary costs and being treated like a criminal when
you do something eminently reasonable - doing a journey shorter than
the one you have paid for, or popping out of the station for a bit to
look round the shops.

TOCs can yield manage all they like with Advance fares - they are
completely irrelevant to me as for most journeys I will not even
consider the inflexibility of them. But I really dislike the way the
ethos of the walk-up fare simplification is being abused with this
kind of thing. And yes, that includes the VT SVHs.

[1] Except maybe CDR because they are generally impracticably heavily
discounted to do that.

Neil

[Roland Perry]

In message
<76762a22-8947-4305...@w5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, at
01:35:57 on Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
remarked:

>> Of course you can. These tickets are a *special* offer, in addition to
>> the regular tickets, for a few selected flows. The fact you have to buy
>> them the day before shows they are for pre-meditated trips, in effect
>> they are "AP ticket for tomorrow, on any train". Isn't that better than
>> "AP ticket for tomorrow, only one train"?
>
>Then they should not be called "Super Off Peak Singles".

The regular ticket is called an "Off Peak Day Single"

I tend to agree that the ticket shouldn't have "Super" in the name
because that would normally imply an evening blackout, which these don't
have, and these flows also have a buy-on-the-day Super Off Peak Single,
[for 10p less than the return, and much more than the Off Peak Day
Single, so no-one should buy it] with the traditional evening black out
and BoJ allowed.

And because the same name is used, the East Coast website pop-up shows
the wrong T&C (claiming the special offer ticket can be bought the same
day).

But without introducing a new word into the ticket vocabulary, what
should they be called? Using the word "Advance" would be confusing
because it implies "fixed train".
--
Roland Perry

[Neil Williams]

On Jan 26, 11:39 am, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> >Then they should not be called "Super Off Peak Singles".
>
> The regular ticket is called an "Off Peak Day Single"

On an InterCity flow? Really?

That does have the benefit of banning overnight BoJ for the TOC
without being confusing, while allowing same-day and starting long/
stopping short unless the restriction code bans it.

> I tend to agree that the ticket shouldn't have "Super" in the name
> because that would normally imply an evening blackout, which these don't
> have, and these flows also have a buy-on-the-day Super Off Peak Single,
> [for 10p less than the return, and much more than the Off Peak Day
> Single, so no-one should buy it] with the traditional evening black out
> and BoJ allowed.

Unnecessarily confusing.

All you need for an IC flow is Off-Peak Single and Super-Off-Peak
Single, and the respective returns. You don't need "Day" singles and
returns at all. Convention is that a flow is either/or except for a
very small number of ~50km flows and some NSE ones.

> And because the same name is used, the East Coast website pop-up shows
> the wrong T&C (claiming the special offer ticket can be bought the same
> day).
>
> But without introducing a new word into the ticket vocabulary, what
> should they be called? Using the word "Advance" would be confusing
> because it implies "fixed train".

If it's a special offer, something TOC-specific. I don't think the
standard names should be used for an online-only promotion - all
regular walk-up tickets should be just that.

Restricted Off-Peak Single?
Online Off-Peak Single?

Or either do it properly (single=return/2 throughout) or just shove a
few more Advance tickets on relevant trains.

Neil

[Roland Perry]

In message
<5675b064-3d45-4e23...@t24g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, at
02:57:15 on Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
remarked:

>> >Then they should not be called "Super Off Peak Singles".
>>
>> The regular ticket is called an "Off Peak Day Single"
>
>On an InterCity flow? Really?

Depends how far up the line you go from London. There comes a point when
it reverts to Anytime Single.

>Online Off-Peak Single?

Sounds good.
--
Roland Perry

[Bruce]

I'm not sure one test case, however high profile, would be enough.

You're right about the pig-headed stupidity. Added to that would be
the malicious attacks on the "perpetrator" by idiot trainspotters who
froth at the mouth and get irrationally angry when "normals" don't
follow these incredibly stupid and unfair, arbitrary rules.

Tickets should be available to those starting long and/or stopping
short. Full stop.

[Bruce]

I'm glad ATOC brought in the new, simple names for tickets so there
wouldn't be any confusion ever again. ;-)

[Mark Goodge]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:36:06 +0000, Bruce put finger to keyboard and typed:

>Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jan 26, 9:12 am, Neil Williams <pacer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> How incredibly, pig-headedly stupid.
>>
>>And more to the point - if you wish to start long/stop short/BoJ, can
>>you buy a full-price one from the Web, or are you stuck with the idea
>>of being treated like a criminal, no doubt, when you do choose to BoJ?
>>
>>This BoJ restriction thing is getting ridiculous, and is completely
>>unnecessary if fares were set sensibly. Time for someone with decent
>>resources to give us a test case.
>
>
>I'm not sure one test case, however high profile, would be enough.

If it got to the Appeal Court, one would be enough.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk

[Roland Perry]

In message <f8Q+NRdO...@perry.co.uk>, at 10:39:10 on Thu, 26 Jan
2012, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> remarked:

>In message
><76762a22-8947-4305...@w5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, at
>01:35:57 on Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
>remarked:
>>> Of course you can. These tickets are a *special* offer, in addition to
>>> the regular tickets, for a few selected flows. The fact you have to buy
>>> them the day before shows they are for pre-meditated trips, in effect
>>> they are "AP ticket for tomorrow, on any train". Isn't that better than
>>> "AP ticket for tomorrow, only one train"?
>>
>>Then they should not be called "Super Off Peak Singles".
>
>The regular ticket is called an "Off Peak Day Single"
>
>I tend to agree that the ticket shouldn't have "Super" in the name
>because that would normally imply an evening blackout, which these
>don't have,

I'm sure I checked that aspect, and now that I want to buy one I find
it's blacked out from [after] 14:35 to 19:06 at Kings Cross. Confusion
pricing. Argh!
--
Roland Perry

[Mizter T]

On Jan 28, 4:33 pm, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> >>Then they should not be called "Super Off Peak Singles".
>
> >The regular ticket is called an "Off Peak Day Single"
>
> >I tend to agree that the ticket shouldn't have "Super" in the name
> >because that would normally imply an evening blackout, which these
> >don't have,

Yes they do.

>
> I'm sure I checked that aspect, and now that I want to buy one I find
> it's blacked out from [after] 14:35 to 19:06 at Kings Cross. Confusion
> pricing. Argh!

It's blacked out for the normal period that Super Off-Peak tickets are
blacked out, can't see the confusion there.

Shame they can't be purchased on the day of travel, and have to be
bought at least the day before - hadn't realised that - definitely
something to bear in mind. (Wonder if the cut-off for buying one is
midnight?)

[Roland Perry]

In message
<20b5a18f-bc9d-447a...@do4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>, at
09:23:48 on Sat, 28 Jan 2012, Mizter T <mizt...@gmail.com> remarked:

>> I'm sure I checked that aspect, and now that I want to buy one I find
>> it's blacked out from [after] 14:35 to 19:06 at Kings Cross. Confusion
>> pricing. Argh!
>
>It's blacked out for the normal period that Super Off-Peak tickets are
>blacked out, can't see the confusion there.

I can only think I may have previously been looking at southbound
tickets in the evening (which have no blackout), rather than northbound
ones.
--
Roland Perry

[Mizter T]

On Jan 28, 5:36 pm, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> In message
> <20b5a18f-bc9d-447a-bd9f-bc228c60f...@do4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>, at
> 09:23:48 on Sat, 28 Jan 2012, Mizter T <mizte...@gmail.com> remarked:

>
> >> I'm sure I checked that aspect, and now that I want to buy one I find
> >> it's blacked out from [after] 14:35 to 19:06 at Kings Cross. Confusion
> >> pricing. Argh!
>
> >It's blacked out for the normal period that Super Off-Peak tickets are
> >blacked out, can't see the confusion there.
>
> I can only think I may have previously been looking at southbound
> tickets in the evening (which have no blackout), rather than northbound
> ones.

It's easy enough to get in a muddle when looking at these things -
well, I'm quite capable of it!

[Roland Perry]

In message
<76762a22-8947-4305...@w5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, at

01:35:57 on Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
remarked:

>> Of course you can. These tickets are a *special* offer, in addition to
>> the regular tickets, for a few selected flows. The fact you have to buy
>> them the day before shows they are for pre-meditated trips, in effect
>> they are "AP ticket for tomorrow, on any train". Isn't that better than
>> "AP ticket for tomorrow, only one train"?
>
>Then they should not be called "Super Off Peak Singles".
>
>They are I guess the equivalent of the old Advance Saver tickets,
>though those were available only as return tickets.

Having bought one, they aren't "East Coast only" and appear to be valid
on (eg) Hull Trains as well. Were the Virgin ones "Virgin only"?
--
Roland Perry

[Neil Williams]

On Jan 30, 3:45 pm, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> Having bought one, they aren't "East Coast only" and appear to be valid
> on (eg) Hull Trains as well. Were the Virgin ones "Virgin only"?

I don't think so.

Neil

[Roland Perry]

In message
<01a4071d-ec0b-4268...@b18g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, at
07:04:40 on Mon, 30 Jan 2012, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
remarked:

>> Having bought one, they aren't "East Coast only" and appear to be valid
>> on (eg) Hull Trains as well. Were the Virgin ones "Virgin only"?
>
>I don't think so.

Yes, looks like the SVH from Virgin is "Any Permitted" (operator and
route). Somewhat differently, the EC ticket is a regular SSS, marked
"50% discount". So it's actually 50p cheaper than half an SSR.
--
Roland Perry