RCS question

[Scott]

I had some trouble last week with texting. The other party first
claimed he had replied (it was important, coffee was involved) then
when he checked there was a sending error that related to RCS. I have
no more details as he quickly became bored!

It seems to me that - simplistically - RCS involves routing
communications via the Google servers instead of by SMS. Given that
SMS is a universally recognised protocol, I decided to disable RCS.

However, when I restarted my phone, RCS reappeared. I see there is a
method of deregistering the phone number from the RCS service via my
Google account. Is this the best way to proceed? At the moment I am
not receiving the six digit code (maybe because RCS is disabled?).

Am I misunderstanding something?

[Chris Green]

I have no answers but my phone just started saying it's sending an
'RCS message' when I want to send a text. It never used to do this
and I've not consciously changed anything.

So, presumably, some recent Android update has changed things. ... or
is RCS what we always used but it didn't tell us?

Can anyone explain all this?

--
Chris Green
·

[Scott]

Android 14?

>
>Can anyone explain all this?

I cannot now receive the authentication code to deregister RCS. Is
there a way of doing this direct from my PC or legally using the GDPR?

[Richmond]

This is a bit of thread hijacking but I saw this news back in August:

https://9to5google.com/2023/08/08/google-messages-rcs-default/

There is usually a way of sending an SMS, e.g. press and hold the send
button until a menu appears. But it depends on the messaging app.

[Andy Burns]

Scott wrote:

> I see there is a
> method of deregistering the phone number from the RCS service via my
> Google account. Is this the best way to proceed? At the moment I am
> not receiving the six digit code (maybe because RCS is disabled?).

I'm with O2,, previously they used their own RCS server, about 10 days
ago they said they'd be migrating to Google's RCS server, and there
would be some hiccups until the work was complete ... I did notice some
android users who I have sent photos to via RCS couldn't send photos
back to me ... I'll have to investigate.

[Andy Burns]

Chris Green wrote:

> my phone just started saying it's sending an 'RCS message' when I want
> to send a text. It never used to do this and I've not consciously
> changed anything. So, presumably, some recent Android update has changed
> things.

Previously google used to "invite" you to turn on RCS, not long ago they
block enabled it for all users.

[Scott]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 12:56:54 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

This parallels my experience. Vodafone similarly migrated and RCS
became enabled and I am having issues with some texts (or texters). It
seems there is a way to de-link the mobile number from the RCS system
at the Google end but I cannot find a way to get it to work

[Nick Finnigan]

No, but I switched off RCS a while ago, on Android 11, because of the
sending errors Chris reports - no 4G coverage nearby, so never works when
I'm out. It has stayed off, but I got a prompt to re-enable after a recent
app update (initiated manually).

[Martin Nicholas]

I use the App. called "Messaging". The icon is a green rectangular
speech bubble with a smiley inside. It is not the "messages" app.

It must be part of Android Version 11 (?) as I can't uninstall it;
there is no option for that. It seems to be SMS/MMS only. No mention of
RCS.

You are probably using the wrong app., but maybe you have no choice.

--
Regards,

Martin Nicholas.

E-mail: reply-...@mgn.org.uk (Address will be valid throughout
October).

A Usenet posting via: https://www.eternal-september.org/. If you find
their service useful, please make a donation.

[Pamela]

I wonder if the RCS you describe is being implemented by the mobile
network?

On my Android 10 phone there's no authentication code needed to
deregister. Instead I go to:

Messages > (user) > Messages Settings > General > RCS Chats > Turn On
RCS Chats

It remembers whatever I choose.

[Scott]

They say not. Vodafone say they ended their RCS service earlier in the
year and handed it over to Google. I must have accepted T&Cs without
realising what I was agreeing to.

>
>On my Android 10 phone there's no authentication code needed to
>deregister. Instead I go to:
>
>Messages > (user) > Messages Settings > General > RCS Chats > Turn On
>RCS Chats

Found that.

>
>It remembers whatever I choose.

My problem is that it sometimes defaults to 'on' if I switch off the
phone. I have read the way to defeat this is to 'deregister' my number
from RCS but I cannot for the of me find a way of doing this.

[Scott]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:47:12 +0100, Martin Nicholas
<reply...@mgn.org.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 10:46:15 +0100
>Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I had some trouble last week with texting. The other party first
>> claimed he had replied (it was important, coffee was involved) then
>> when he checked there was a sending error that related to RCS. I have
>> no more details as he quickly became bored!
>>
>> It seems to me that - simplistically - RCS involves routing
>> communications via the Google servers instead of by SMS. Given that
>> SMS is a universally recognised protocol, I decided to disable RCS.
>>
>> However, when I restarted my phone, RCS reappeared. I see there is a
>> method of deregistering the phone number from the RCS service via my
>> Google account. Is this the best way to proceed? At the moment I am
>> not receiving the six digit code (maybe because RCS is disabled?).
>>
>> Am I misunderstanding something?
>
>I use the App. called "Messaging". The icon is a green rectangular
>speech bubble with a smiley inside. It is not the "messages" app.
>
>It must be part of Android Version 11 (?) as I can't uninstall it;
>there is no option for that. It seems to be SMS/MMS only. No mention of
>RCS.
>
>You are probably using the wrong app., but maybe you have no choice.

I suspect it is native to Android 14. I would prefer to retain it lest
I encounter a different set of difficulties. I just want to get
Google to f**k off.

[Chris Green]

Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 11:58:07 +0100, Chris Green <c...@isbd.net> wrote:
>
> >Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> >> I had some trouble last week with texting. The other party first
> >> claimed he had replied (it was important, coffee was involved) then
> >> when he checked there was a sending error that related to RCS. I have
> >> no more details as he quickly became bored!
> >>
> >> It seems to me that - simplistically - RCS involves routing
> >> communications via the Google servers instead of by SMS. Given that
> >> SMS is a universally recognised protocol, I decided to disable RCS.
> >>
> >> However, when I restarted my phone, RCS reappeared. I see there is a
> >> method of deregistering the phone number from the RCS service via my
> >> Google account. Is this the best way to proceed? At the moment I am
> >> not receiving the six digit code (maybe because RCS is disabled?).
> >>
> >> Am I misunderstanding something?
> >
> >I have no answers but my phone just started saying it's sending an
> >'RCS message' when I want to send a text. It never used to do this
> >and I've not consciously changed anything.
> >
> >So, presumably, some recent Android update has changed things. ... or
> >is RCS what we always used but it didn't tell us?
>
> Android 14?

No, I'm still on 11.

--
Chris Green
·

[Andy Burns]

Pamela wrote:

> I wonder if the RCS you describe is being implemented by the mobile
> network?

before the O2 -> google switch, my phone reported that RCS was provided
by my MNO, and I could turn it on/off.

At the moment it reports that "RCS chats aren't available for this
device" and I can't change anything.

[Scott]

Thanks everyone. I was unable in the end to deregister RCS via my
Google account but at least the 'Turn Off RCS Chats' setting on the
phone is remaining (I think disabling Wi-fi calling may have helped.)

[Chris Green]

Me too! :-)

I have simply turned off RCS Chats in the message settings and it
seems to be sticking. What I don't understand is how Google turned it
on even though my phone is not logged in to a Google account, it just
goes to show how deep Google's hooks go and confirms my minimal use of
my mobile. It's just a phone and messaging device with occasional use
as a satnav (but not via Google Maps).

--
Chris Green
·

[Peter Johnson]

Samsung phones also have the Samsung Messages app that also can't be
uninstalled but which can be set as the default message app, which
would be another way of getting around the issue. I haven't tried it
though.

[Scott]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 13:34:22 +0100, Chris Green <c...@isbd.net> wrote:

Could your provider have done it? I found a bit about Vodafone
transferring RCS to Google and accepting the terms would be taken as
consent. I may have accepted the terms routinely. I believe Google
then decided to change the default from off to on.

[Chris Green]

It seems unlikely to me, I'm with idMobile and they're pretty 'hands
off' as far as I'm aware. My phone is an Umidigi Bison so (one of the
reasons I chose it) very close to 'standard' Android with no extra apps.


--
Chris Green
·

[Scott]

Vodafone certainly did it:
https://support.vodafone.co.uk/Phones-devices/1974626122/Changes-to-Rich-Communication-Services-for-Android-phones.htm
As far as I can see, it has nothing to do with Android, standard or
otherwise.

[Andy Burns]

Scott wrote:

> Vodafone certainly did it:
> https://support.vodafone.co.uk/Phones-devices/1974626122/Changes-to-Rich-Communication-Services-for-Android-phones.htm
> As far as I can see, it has nothing to do with Android, standard or
> otherwise.

Here's O2's equivalent notification, I'm still without RCS and would
like to be able to turn it back on.

<https://community.o2.co.uk/t5/Welcome-News/RCS-An-Update-from-O2/td-p/1656507>

[notya...@gmail.com]

My phone shows two messages app's. One does SMS the other uses Google. The latter does not do confirmation of delivery nor report failed messages, so I use the former.

I suppose an advantage of the latter is that one might be able to send attachments without racking up MMS charges.

[Scott]

My massage therapist did not receive a birthday message (with
emoticon) sent I think by SMS. She has Android not iPhone. She says
some of her messages have been queuing up then coming through in a
burst later.

Is there an inherent unreliability in texting and is it best to use
SMS via the carrier for best compatibility and reliability?

[Abandoned Trolley]

I suppose an advantage of the latter is that one might be able to send
attachments without racking up MMS charges.
>
> My massage therapist did not receive a birthday message (with
> emoticon) sent I think by SMS. She has Android not iPhone. She says
> some of her messages have been queuing up then coming through in a
> burst later.
>
> Is there an inherent unreliability in texting and is it best to use
> SMS via the carrier for best compatibility and reliability?

What exactly do you mean by "texting" ?

There is an inherent unreliability in SMS services globally.

[Andy Burns]

Abandoned Trolley wrote:

> There is an inherent unreliability in SMS services globally.

Yes SMS offers no guarantee of delivery, but in practice, within the UK,
I find it it very reliable. Not used it internationally for quite some
time, so no comment.

[Abandoned Trolley]

I think it was some time around 2015 when I read an article on the
subject, and the author reckoned that since the "Dawn of SMS Time"
(which I guess would be sometime around 1993) the various global network
operators had trousered at least 5 billion US dollars for carrying SMS
messages which had never been delivered.

I have no idea of the total number of messages carried, but it sounds
like a worrying large percentage to me. It was estimated that the
networks operators had revenue streams amounting to around $1000 per
megabyte.

I would suggest that the problem has died down significantly not because
of any improvements in the "Grade of Service" but more because there are
alternative messaging platforms, and because hardly anybody pays for SMS
any more.

[Andy Burns]

Andy Burns wrote:

> Here's O2's equivalent notification, I'm still without RCS and would
> like to be able to turn it back on.
>
> <https://community.o2.co.uk/t5/Welcome-News/RCS-An-Update-from-O2/td-p/1656507>

My RCS wasn't available this morning, but is available again now ...

[Scott]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 18:55:09 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

What are the practical consequences of this? If someone uses RCS to
contact you when you are not available, is it guaranteed the message
will be resent by SMS? Will you then get the message again when RCS
resumes? If you send a message, will it automatically be routed via
SMS or will you get a message saying the message failed? If RCS fails,
will the networks be swamped with SMS messages? What if it's a photo?
Will that be diverted? Will it incur a cost?

[Andy Burns]

Scott wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> My RCS wasn't available this morning, but is available again now ...
>>
> What are the practical consequences of this? If someone uses RCS to
> contact you when you are not available, is it guaranteed the message
> will be resent by SMS?

Someone else's phone will tell (in more or less realtime?) if my phone
is connected to RCS, and therefore they will automatically use RCS to
reach me, instead of SMS.

Last week a friend wanted to send me a photo (actually she want to use
WhatsApp so I had to explain I wasn't on there) so I said she could use
RCS to send it to me, without having to pay MMS charges, when she tried,
she couldn't, as it happened I was in the same house as her, so I could
check her phone settings and it didn't see me as being on RCS at the
time - that was when I realised my O2->google migration was underway

I knew it had worked in the past, because I had sent her a photo via RCS
a week or two ago.

It is supposed to retry as SMS if RCS fails, I have seen it do that when
my nephew's phone was on dubious wifi.

> Will you then get the message again when RCS
> resumes? If you send a message, will it automatically be routed via
> SMS or will you get a message saying the message failed? If RCS fails,
> will the networks be swamped with SMS messages? What if it's a photo?
> Will that be diverted? Will it incur a cost?

I don't think it'll convert a free RCS photo to an expensive MMS photo.

[Nick Finnigan]

On 25/10/2023 19:42, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 18:55:09 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Here's O2's equivalent notification, I'm still without RCS and would
>>> like to be able to turn it back on.
>>>
>>> <https://community.o2.co.uk/t5/Welcome-News/RCS-An-Update-from-O2/td-p/1656507>
>>
>> My RCS wasn't available this morning, but is available again now ...
>>
> What are the practical consequences of this? If someone uses RCS to
> contact you when you are not available, is it guaranteed the message
> will be resent by SMS?

No. Nor are they guaranteed a prompt notification of failure.

Will you then get the message again when RCS
> resumes?

No guarantee.

If you send a message, will it automatically be routed via
> SMS or will you get a message saying the message failed? If RCS fails,
> will the networks be swamped with SMS messages? What if it's a photo?
> Will that be diverted? Will it incur a cost?

IME, RCS just failed miserably with a hard to understand error if one or
other party has neither 4g nor wifi coverage. So I don't use it.

[Scott]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:20:39 +0100, Nick Finnigan <n...@genie.co.uk>
wrote:

This seems to be exactly the situation I have encountered. I have
disabled RCS in the phone but I cannot get it to 'deregister' my
number with Google, which is supposed to be an option. It keeps saying
it has sent the six digit code but I suspect I am not getting it
because I have disabled RCS.

I am tempted to write to their data controller (GDPR) to say that I am
withdrawing consent for the use of any part of my personal data for
the purpose of managing or operating the RCS service.

[Andy Burns]

Scott wrote:

> I have disabled RCS in the phone but I cannot get it to 'deregister'
> my number with Google, which is supposed to be an option. It keeps
> saying it has sent the six digit code but I suspect I am not getting
> it because I have disabled RCS.

So why not re-enable RCS for long enough to receive the code?
Presumably you could do it at a time you know you have good WiFi/4G
coverage so don't risk losing messages?

[Scott]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 10:23:52 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>

That's a good idea but I thought the whole point of RCS was that it
would automatically resend as SMS if RCS is unavailable, so why am I
not getting the code?

[Andy Burns]

Scott wrote:

> I thought the whole point of RCS was that it would automatically
> resend as SMS if RCS is unavailable

I've used O2's server without ever having cause to think their RCS was
less reliable than SMS. It gives me confirmation of delivery and of
being read. I was happy that I was using a service that I actually paid
for in my contract.

The only time I saw messages not send was when I know the recipient had
flaky WiFi, it was easiest to not get too involved and just advise him
to turn off RCS at his end, actually I now know how to turn off RCS on a
per-recipient basis at my end.

> so why am I not getting the code?

Pass.

Obviously I've used google's server for less than a day, so can't
compare reliability. I'm somewhat less happy that I still pay O2 for
unlimited text messages, but (apart from iPhones etc) end-up using a
free service from google, who have zero obligation to me.