Switching from xDSL to Mobile Internet.

[cybuerke]

Could I please canvass some views on this subject?

My situation is that I have an ADSL connection at present which has
given me a stable 10 - 11 MB download/ 0.7 MB upload speed, which is
ample for me. My landline is also used for incoming phone calls and I
have a Cisco ATA that is connected to sipgate and voipstunt for VoIP
outgoing calls. I also have a Three Mobile pay monthly a/c at £5 pm for
unlimited calls and (an unused) 1GB data. All in, my current
Phone/Broadband is costing £25 and a few pennies per month.

My thinking is to discontinue the landline, invest in Three's Unlimited
data plan with their supplied router which would be plugged into my
desktop and ATA via my present FritzBox router, thereby saving a
shilling or six each month.

The obvious unknown is the stability and speed of the data connection.
Three's prediction is that my area is well covered for outdoor and
indoor reception. I've done a few ookla tests with my current mobile
phone (with wifi turned off) from various locations at home, and my best
connection has given me 26MB down and 7MB up at zero dark thirty am and
worst was zero MB up and down in late afternoon.

The question is: can I rely on my ageing LG G2 to replicate a shiny new
router's performance in the connectivity stakes or would I need to sign
up for the account and then have to whinge and stamp my feet if the
whole deal turns out to be a lemon?

Bearing in mind that I'd have to either run both systems together for a
while or lose my present not at all bad deal with the Co-op, plus have
to pay the landline disconnect fee and then perhaps have to start again
from scratch.

Do you know, I think I might have answered my own question...

[Graham J]

cybuerke wrote:
> Could I please canvass some views on this subject?

[snip]

Bear in mind that POTS will be discontinued in 2025.

It is unlikely that your phone supplier will want to offer you their
VoIP replacement over ADSL. Even if they offered it over FTTC the
reliability will not be anything like as good as your current analog
phone service over the copper pair - every glitch that causes the ADSL
to re-sync will potentially break a VoIP call for at least a minute.

So it's possible that the connection reliability from Three will be
better than that - but it is a shared spectrum wireless service so
reliability and contention cannot be guaranteed.

It is possible that your phone supplier will offer you you their VoIP
replacement over FTTP. If so, I suggest you take it - if you can find
out at this stage what they are planning. With FTTP you should get
relibility that is ***WAY*** better than FTTC, and (depending on the
service you pay for) a guaranteed level of contention.

As to whether you can port your existing landline phone number to
Sipgate and/or voipstunt - you will have to find out.

If your phone provider does offer FTTP they may provide the VoIP service
using their own VoIP device, so your router and ATA will potentially be
redundant. If you want your own router perhaps to implement a VPN
(which might rely on a static IP) then you need to ask more questions of
your supplier.

--
Graham J

[MikeS]

You would be relying on your local 3 cell continuing to work reliably.
Before you dive in I suggest you take a look at the discussion forums of
3 or any other mobile network. You will find the same complaints
everywhere all the time.

I currently have a good 4G EE signal at home - 100 metres from a major
shopping centre and railway station. During the past 2 years my local EE
cell went down twice and each time it took 5 or 6 weeks to repair - with
weekly emails saying "we are working on it". In the past both O2 and
Vodafone have been no better.

ALL the mobile networks fail to carry out repairs promptly because they
can fall back on the excuse that they cannot be expected to provide a
reliable mobile signal everywhere. As far as they (and the regulator)
are concerned it is irrelevant that your house normally has an excellent
signal and they know there is a fault. With a fixed landline to your
premises they cannot claim they did not contract to provide a service to
that specific location.

[Theo]

In uk.telecom.mobile cybuerke <cybu...@plmgmail.com> wrote:
> The question is: can I rely on my ageing LG G2 to replicate a shiny new
> router's performance in the connectivity stakes or would I need to sign
> up for the account and then have to whinge and stamp my feet if the
> whole deal turns out to be a lemon?

The G2 has LTE so you could assume it would be a rough approximation. A
router might have a better antenna setup and maybe more bands, but if you
test things first with a phone it would likely be the same or better with a
router in the same location. (I'm guessing 5G will be a long time coming in
your location). If you're using it as a hotspot the G2's wifi is probably
rubbish as far as broadcasting within your house, so I'd do any testing
nearby to the phone.

I would suggest signing up with Smarty, who are a part of Three. You can
get plans starting at £6/month for 4GB rising to £20/month for unlimited,
and you can 'pause' or cancel them at any time. So you can run both in
parallel and see how it works out, without affecting your existing
connection.

If you're happy, you can then port your landline number to Sipgate or
someone else to keep it, which will also cease your ADSL.

Theo

[Roger Mills]

On 31/07/2021 13:14, cybuerke wrote:

I've done something very similar at my second home (holiday flat) which
is occupied approx 1 week in 4.

I previously had a fixed line and unlimited ADSL (not fibre) with
Plusnet. This was costing me about £23 per month for the line rental and
ADSL. The crunch came last year, when we were unable to visit the flat
for months on end due to lockdown - but it was still costing this amount.

I decided to invest in a D-Link DWR-921 4G router (£90+) plus a used
Linksys PAP2 (£10 on Ebay) for voice, using Sipgate's service. I started
out with a '3' data SIM but have since switched to Smarty, which is a
lot cheaper. I'm paying £10 per month for 30GB, which is more than
adequate for my needs, but I would probably go for unlimited if I were
here all the time - although the savings would then be less dramatic.

I'm getting download speeds of up to 80 Mbps and upload speeds of around
10 (compared with 10 and less than 1 with ADSL).

I didn't bother to port my phone number because very few people knew the
old one. Sipgate have given me a number with the same area code, and the
address wich goes with it has been registered for emergency calls.

I started this arrangement last December to coincide with the end of the
Plusnet contract - so there were no cancellation fees.

So far, everything has worked very well, and the connection stays up for
months on end unless there is a power cut or I re-boot the router.

One difference to be aware of between 3 and Smarty is that (when using
the appropriate APN) 3 gives you a routeable WAN IP address, but Smarty
doesn't. With 3, and using dynamic DNS, I could manage the router
remotely, but now I can't. But it's not a show stopper for me. I can see
the at the router is up and running because I can get near real time
data from the Hive system connected to the cental heating.

--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

[John]

On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 15:23:29 +0100, MikeS wrote:
> You would be relying on your local 3 cell continuing to work reliably.

That.

[David Sankey]

On 31/07/2021 13:14, cybuerke wrote:

I got Mobile Broadband in order to have reliable data when working from
home - I see download speed of up to 220 Mb/s and upload of upto 30
Mb/s, compared to 16 Mb/s download and 0.7 upload on ADSL.

I initially tried 3 which gave peak rates not far off the above, but
discovered that over 90% of the time it was completely unusable.

Even with my current mobile provider I often see the performance crash
to below the ADSL, but most of the time it is very usable.

So I would emphasise that the stability and speed of the data connection
seems to be extremely variable!

[notya...@gmail.com]

I recommended an unlimited 3 LTE SIM for a business two or three years back as their DSL was rubbish at 2Mbps! There were only ~300m los from a cell. The SIM was put in a Teltonika router and an outside aerial rigged up - total cost <£150. This gave ~16Mbps down IIRC and at a much lower cost. The call element never got used! Not much congestion even in a central city area.

You could just use a phone on a USB cable if you can see a base station out of the window.

[cybuerke]

Thanks to everyone who responded. Those suggestions are much appreciated.

I've decided to buy a used 4 LAN port/Wifi LTE4 router from Amazon
Warehouse (coincidentally it's a DWR-921 as recommended by Roger) and
I'll sign up for a monthly 30GB SIM only deal from Smarty. I'm not in
contract with the Phone Co-op, but my annual line rental expires in
October, so I'll take a few weeks to see if the mobile internet wheeze
cuts the mustard and then jump one way or t'other.

I'll post back with the results, which might help some other puzzled
punter with their commitment doubts!

Thanks again.

[notya...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 2 August 2021 at 20:46:37 UTC+1, cybuerke wrote:
SNIP

> >> Do you know, I think I might have answered my own question...
> >
> > I recommended an unlimited 3 LTE SIM for a business two or three years back as their DSL was rubbish at 2Mbps! There were only ~300m los from a cell. The SIM was put in a Teltonika router and an outside aerial rigged up - total cost <£150. This gave ~16Mbps down IIRC and at a much lower cost. The call element never got used! Not much congestion even in a central city area.
> >
> > You could just use a phone on a USB cable if you can see a base station out of the window.
> >
> Thanks to everyone who responded. Those suggestions are much appreciated.
>
> I've decided to buy a used 4 LAN port/Wifi LTE4 router from Amazon
> Warehouse (coincidentally it's a DWR-921 as recommended by Roger) and
> I'll sign up for a monthly 30GB SIM only deal from Smarty. I'm not in
> contract with the Phone Co-op, but my annual line rental expires in
> October, so I'll take a few weeks to see if the mobile internet wheeze
> cuts the mustard and then jump one way or t'other.
>
> I'll post back with the results, which might help some other puzzled
> punter with their commitment doubts!
>
> Thanks again.

The SIM is in the router, so although the mobile antennas are removable (and an external antenna could be used?) this will make its position important. A 4G USB dongle or small modem (e.g. Teltonika) that can be positioned remotely and use an external aerial may be better. Also vague about 5GHz Wi-Fi and whether both fixed and mobile internet connections can be used at the same time and how traffic is shared between them. For the money you might be better of with a Draytek.

[cybuerke]

On 02/08/2021 20:46, cybuerke wrote:
> On 02/08/2021 18:57, notya...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks to everyone who responded.  Those suggestions are much
> appreciated.
>
> I've decided to buy a used 4 LAN port/Wifi LTE4 router from Amazon
> Warehouse (coincidentally it's a DWR-921 as recommended by Roger) and
> I'll sign up for a monthly 30GB SIM only deal from Smarty. I'm not in
> contract with the Phone Co-op, but my annual line rental expires in
> October, so I'll take a few weeks to see if the mobile internet wheeze
> cuts the mustard and then jump one way or t'other.
>
> I'll post back with the results, which might help some other puzzled
> punter with their commitment doubts!
>
> Thanks again.
>

As threatened, a brief follow-up.

A very brief one, in fact.  It turned out to be a no-brainer for me. 
Although some connections were marginally better than those on my
existing ADSL setup, the overall results were far too flaky for me to
commit to mobile internet alone.  It's back to the £150 p.a. line rental
next month, then.

[Theo]

cybuerke <cybu...@plmgmail.com> wrote:
> As threatened, a brief follow-up.
>
> A very brief one, in fact.  It turned out to be a no-brainer for me. 
> Although some connections were marginally better than those on my
> existing ADSL setup, the overall results were far too flaky for me to
> commit to mobile internet alone.  It's back to the £150 p.a. line rental
> next month, then.

Could you try SIMs from Vodafone, EE and O2, to see if other networks are
better?

Or else there's Starlink...

Theo

[Martin Brown]

It is a useable solution if you are prepared to invest in directional
antennae and configure it to work. It is decidedly not plug and play.

Even so a Wifi dongle or Mifi pebble (or just sharing data off your
mobile phone) is a useful fallback when fixed line ADSL is down. I know
people who do rely on mobile data only round here (but they get <1MBps
fixed line ADSL speeds). I get a whopping 6M which is high for here. We
have ancient corroded copper wire that spends some part of every winter
immersed in dirty water. Right now is spider ingress season.

Most have gone for the microwave link solution from Quickline if they
have line of sight on a node. Rock solid 20MB link for about the same
monthly cost as fixed line but a £300-500 installation charge to put a
microwave disk antenna as far into the air as it reasonably possible!

I don't have clear line of sight :(

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[cybuerke]

Ive only had anecdotal evidence from local users of other networks, but
it appears that the tale is much the same - good and not so good over a
period of time.

"It's a geographical matter, Father."

[cybuerke]

On 29/09/2021 08:53, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 11:26, cybuerke wrote:

>>>
>> As threatened, a brief follow-up.
>>
>> A very brief one, in fact.  It turned out to be a no-brainer for me.
>> Although some connections were marginally better than those on my
>> existing ADSL setup, the overall results were far too flaky for me to
>> commit to mobile internet alone.  It's back to the £150 p.a. line
>> rental next month, then.
>
> It is a useable solution if you are prepared to invest in directional
> antennae and configure it to work. It is decidedly not plug and play.

Probably an excellent solution for those with the space, patience and
sky hooks so to do. Personally, I'm slightly hindered by the fact that
I'm living in a second floor flat in sheltered accommodation and seem to
have mislayed some bounce and round tuits over the years.

>
> Even so a Wifi dongle or Mifi pebble (or just sharing data off your
> mobile phone) is a useful fallback when fixed line ADSL is down. I know
> people who do rely on mobile data only round here (but they get <1MBps
> fixed line ADSL speeds). I get a whopping 6M which is high for here. We
> have ancient corroded copper wire that spends some part of every winter
> immersed in dirty water. Right now is spider ingress season.

Ah yes. Being very much belt and braces, I do have a backup 1 Gb data
monthly a/c on the trusty LG G2, Mind you, I hate using that soppy
little 'keyboard'. Fat finger syndrome dontyaknow...

>
> Most have gone for the microwave link solution from Quickline if they
> have line of sight on a node. Rock solid 20MB link for about the same
> monthly cost as fixed line but a £300-500 installation charge to put a
> microwave disk antenna as far into the air as it reasonably possible!
>
> I don't have clear line of sight :(

Yes. A precious commodity is a clear line of sight. <sigh>

[notya...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 29 September 2021 at 08:53:22 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 11:26, cybuerke wrote:

SNIP

> >
> > A very brief one, in fact. It turned out to be a no-brainer for me.
> > Although some connections were marginally better than those on my
> > existing ADSL setup, the overall results were far too flaky for me to
> > commit to mobile internet alone. It's back to the £150 p.a. line rental
> > next month, then.
> It is a useable solution if you are prepared to invest in directional
> antennae and configure it to work. It is decidedly not plug and play.

Indeed, the installation I carried out was for a business near Manchester Piccadilly station. ADSL was dire. We located the nearest base station (Three ~300m line of site), and after testing with a Network Cell Info Lite, a mobile as a hot spot and a midi device, bought a Teltonika dedicated 4G cellular modem and an inexpensive external aerial. Works fine even when the nearby station is very busy. Land line kept for resilience and to carry Voip.

If you are further away then you can get Yagi aerials for the band in use (depends on MNO and generation)

>
> Even so a Wifi dongle or Mifi pebble (or just sharing data off your
> mobile phone) is a useful fallback when fixed line ADSL is down. I know
> people who do rely on mobile data only round here (but they get <1MBps
> fixed line ADSL speeds). I get a whopping 6M which is high for here. We
> have ancient corroded copper wire that spends some part of every winter
> immersed in dirty water. Right now is spider ingress season.
>
> Most have gone for the microwave link solution from Quickline if they
> have line of sight on a node. Rock solid 20MB link for about the same
> monthly cost as fixed line but a £300-500 installation charge to put a
> microwave disk antenna as far into the air as it reasonably possible!
>
> I don't have clear line of sight :(

Then stick with EE on 700MHz.

>
> --
> Regards,
> Martin Brown