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What's the easiest way to manually switch the cell tower you are hotspotting/tethering to?
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Wally J
Dec 16, 2023, 10:45:13 AM12/16/23
to
The conversation below is what sparked these two related questions:
*How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/8fhfuD-NhF8/m/SsEQkLqQAAAJ>
Question 1:
Is it possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing your location?
Question 2:
How do they even know that you're hotspotting/tethering to a given tower?
Almost always we find a way around every arbitrarily imposed restriction.
===< here is the conversation that sparked those two questions >===
"Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>> I think Ofcom have now ruled in the UK that data is data so if you're
>> allowed X GB to use on your phone you must legally also be allowed to
>> use any or all of it for tethering.
>
> Nice.
>
> They probably gave things like 50 GB assuming that most people would not
> use them, whereas people that connect a computer or two will use the data.
Just to be clear on how the 5GB/month/tower tethering/hotspotting
limitation works in the USA on a typical post-paid T-Mobile plan...
Here's my understanding based on experience & T-Mobile's explanations
1. The 5GB/month is per tower and that's high-speed tethering/hotspotting
2. If you move to another tower, that 5GB/month/line is still available
3. After that, T-Mobile _never_ shuts data down - but it slows down
4. T-Mobile sends a text at 80% (my grandkids get warned all the time)
5. For a one-time $10 (I believe) you can add another 50GB per month
6. Which, like all T-Mobile plans, you can cancel the next day if you like
What I'd like to know is how they know you're tethering/hotspotting?
Also if it's possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing location
*How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/8fhfuD-NhF8/m/SsEQkLqQAAAJ>
Question 1:
Is it possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing your location?
Question 2:
How do they even know that you're hotspotting/tethering to a given tower?
Almost always we find a way around every arbitrarily imposed restriction.
===< here is the conversation that sparked those two questions >===
"Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>> I think Ofcom have now ruled in the UK that data is data so if you're
>> allowed X GB to use on your phone you must legally also be allowed to
>> use any or all of it for tethering.
>
> Nice.
>
> They probably gave things like 50 GB assuming that most people would not
> use them, whereas people that connect a computer or two will use the data.
Just to be clear on how the 5GB/month/tower tethering/hotspotting
limitation works in the USA on a typical post-paid T-Mobile plan...
Here's my understanding based on experience & T-Mobile's explanations
1. The 5GB/month is per tower and that's high-speed tethering/hotspotting
2. If you move to another tower, that 5GB/month/line is still available
3. After that, T-Mobile _never_ shuts data down - but it slows down
4. T-Mobile sends a text at 80% (my grandkids get warned all the time)
5. For a one-time $10 (I believe) you can add another 50GB per month
6. Which, like all T-Mobile plans, you can cancel the next day if you like
What I'd like to know is how they know you're tethering/hotspotting?
Also if it's possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing location
Andy Burns
Dec 16, 2023, 10:59:31 AM12/16/23
to
Wally J wrote:
> Is it possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing your location?
i'd have thought the only factor in your control is to change what
> Is it possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing your location?
band(s) your phone is using, but since it will chose the fastest when
left to itself, you will most likely be slowing your connection down by
forcing it e.g. from 5G to 4G/3G, and may end up on the same tower anyway.
> Question 2:
> How do they even know that you're hotspotting/tethering to a given tower?
headers show "internet explorer" you're probably not using an android
phone, also the TTL fields of packets are clues
> Just to be clear on how the 5GB/month/tower tethering/hotspotting
> limitation works in the USA on a typical post-paid T-Mobile plan...
device and can use the specified amount of data anywhere in the country
(or when roaming, if appropriate).
David Woolley
Dec 16, 2023, 1:50:41 PM12/16/23
to
On 16/12/2023 15:59, Andy Burns wrote:
> Per tower? to us in europe that seems an odd limitation, we pay per
> device and can use the specified amount of data anywhere in the country
> (or when roaming, if appropriate).
I imagine that rule is to avoid people using the mobile network for a
> Per tower? to us in europe that seems an odd limitation, we pay per
> device and can use the specified amount of data anywhere in the country
> (or when roaming, if appropriate).
high volume fixed connection, for which they should have their own fibre.
Carlos E.R.
Dec 16, 2023, 2:05:41 PM12/16/23
to
On 2023-12-16 16:45, Wally J wrote:
> The conversation below is what sparked these two related questions:
> *How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/8fhfuD-NhF8/m/SsEQkLqQAAAJ>
>
> Question 1:
> Is it possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing your location?
>
> Question 2:
> How do they even know that you're hotspotting/tethering to a given tower?
Tethering, in the conversation you quote below, doesn't refer to be
> The conversation below is what sparked these two related questions:
> *How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/8fhfuD-NhF8/m/SsEQkLqQAAAJ>
>
> Question 1:
> Is it possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing your location?
>
> Question 2:
> How do they even know that you're hotspotting/tethering to a given tower?
using a given tower. Tethering is simply connecting a computer to a
mobile phone, so that the phone provides internet.
We said nothing about choosing the tower, that is nothing we have
control about.
And there is nothing in our contract about they measuring how much we
use a given tower.
However, someone that uses a single tower is possibly tethering, so they
might be using this criteria to find those users easily. It is not a
restriction, just a method to find those users. But not all tethering
users are in that circumstance.
> Almost always we find a way around every arbitrarily imposed restriction.
>
> ===< here is the conversation that sparked those two questions >===
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
> >> I think Ofcom have now ruled in the UK that data is data so if you're
> >> allowed X GB to use on your phone you must legally also be allowed to
> >> use any or all of it for tethering.
> >
> > Nice.
> >
> > They probably gave things like 50 GB assuming that most people would not
> > use them, whereas people that connect a computer or two will use the data.
>
> Just to be clear on how the 5GB/month/tower tethering/hotspotting
> limitation works in the USA on a typical post-paid T-Mobile plan...
>
> Here's my understanding based on experience & T-Mobile's explanations
> 1. The 5GB/month is per tower and that's high-speed tethering/hotspotting
> 2. If you move to another tower, that 5GB/month/line is still available
> 3. After that, T-Mobile _never_ shuts data down - but it slows down
> 4. T-Mobile sends a text at 80% (my grandkids get warned all the time)
> 5. For a one-time $10 (I believe) you can add another 50GB per month
> 6. Which, like all T-Mobile plans, you can cancel the next day if you like
>
> What I'd like to know is how they know you're tethering/hotspotting?
> Also if it's possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing location
Cheers, Carlos.
Carlos E.R.
Dec 16, 2023, 2:11:40 PM12/16/23
to
I am free to contract anything that is on offering.
There are people that can not contract fibre. There may be no fibre in
the area; the location may be rented, installing fibre prohibited; the
location could be temporary.
In fact, at one location I use a SIM inserted into a router. The company
sells these SIMS specifically for this usage.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Andy Burns
Dec 16, 2023, 2:20:47 PM12/16/23
to
phone line and broadband had long been cut off and my normal mobile
phone gets rubbish coverage there, so I used a MiFi on a different
network, with an unlimited SIM I used data in the same fashion as I
would at home, and clocked up 200GB usage with no eyelids batted by the
mobile provider.
notya...@gmail.com
Dec 16, 2023, 2:26:45 PM12/16/23
to
On Saturday 16 December 2023 at 15:45:13 UTC, Wally J wrote:
> The conversation below is what sparked these two related questions:
> *How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/8fhfuD-NhF8/m/SsEQkLqQAAAJ>
>
> Question 1:
> Is it possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing your location?
Essentially no, however by shifting your position slightly or interposing obstructions [like walls, garage doors] you can encourage the phone and base station to do this.
> The conversation below is what sparked these two related questions:
> *How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/8fhfuD-NhF8/m/SsEQkLqQAAAJ>
>
> Question 1:
> Is it possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing your location?
>
> Question 2:
> How do they even know that you're hotspotting/tethering to a given tower?
In the UK, a decade ago I had unlimited data, but no tethering or telephony allowed (never enforced). Now I have unlimited calls and texts, but pay for a package with data and can use it for whatever I like.
In the UK there is still considerable competition between MNO's, although there is a risk of a Voda & Three merger scuppering; this the CMA (US = Gov't anti-trust organisation) may prevent this, but up till now it has been a paper tiger.
Chris
Dec 16, 2023, 2:56:57 PM12/16/23
to
than happy to be charging for it. They would rather you didn't go to fibre.
Your Name
Dec 16, 2023, 5:06:16 PM12/16/23
to
Today you can get home internet connections that use the 4G or 5G
mobile network via a SIM-capable router/modem. It's often called
"wireless broadband". I'm using one right now. :-)
The modems connect to the same mobile network towers and use normal
SIMS with their own phone numbers, but they usually can't be used for
normal mobile phone calls or text messaging (other than the provider
sending text messages to you, which is rather ridiculous since most
users do not even know the messages arrive - there's no light on the
modem, no app on the computer, you have to instead log on to the modem
itself via your web broswer).
Here are the "wireless broadband" plans from the mobile network
companies here in New Zealand:
- One NZ (which was formerly Vodafone NZ)
<https://one.nz/broadband/wireless-broadband/>
- Spark (formerly Telecom NZ)
<https://www.spark.co.nz/online/broadband/buy-plan?category=wireless>
- 2Degrees
<https://www.2degrees.nz/broadband/wireless-broadband?discount=yes>
Many other internet providers have similar "wireless broadband" plans,
but they will use one of the mobile networks above anyway.
It gets even sillier. When you're at home, you can of course have your
mobile phone connected to your home network and obtaining it's internet
connection via the modem/router from that over the 4G / 5G mobile
network ... and it costs you less than simply using the phone "mobile
data" (after you have used up the 'free' data allowance most mobile
phone plans come with).
Basically the restrictions and distinction between "mobile data" and
"wireless broadband" simply come down to the provider's greed. - they
just want to charge more for "mobile data" on your mobile phone.
There's zero difference in how it is used or accessed. :-\
micky
Dec 16, 2023, 9:26:08 PM12/16/23
to
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 16 Dec 2023 18:50:37 +0000, David
I live in the US and I"m not aware of a per/tower limitation. I lived
off my phone's hotspot for several days, but even then my usage probably
wasn't enough to go over even a low limit, if there had been one.
Probably mint mobile which uses t-mobile towers.
off my phone's hotspot for several days, but even then my usage probably
wasn't enough to go over even a low limit, if there had been one.
Probably mint mobile which uses t-mobile towers.
David Woolley
Dec 17, 2023, 8:10:05 AM12/17/23
to
On 16/12/2023 19:56, Chris wrote:
> Why? Mobile data is more expensive so the internet provider will be more
> than happy to be charging for it. They would rather you didn't go to fibre.
>
This is really a continuation of the thread about "unlimited" use.
> Why? Mobile data is more expensive so the internet provider will be more
> than happy to be charging for it. They would rather you didn't go to fibre.
>
Wally J
Dec 17, 2023, 6:41:43 PM12/17/23
to
"Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
> Tethering, in the conversation you quote below, doesn't refer to be
> using a given tower. Tethering is simply connecting a computer to a
> mobile phone, so that the phone provides internet.
Good point.
The _only_ reason I lump hotspotting & tethering is that T-Mobile does.
The limitations for each are combined and therefore treated the same.
Yes that's odd.
But that's my understanding of how T-Mobile USA does things.
To me, the definition of hotspotting is sort of like this:
a. Your phone has access to have cellular data via a tower connection
b. You make your phone an access point
c. Any number of Wi-Fi clients can access that cellular data through it
To me, the definition of tethering might be sort of something like this.
a. Your phone has access to have cellular data via a tower connection
b. You connect your phone by cable to a PC (USB-C to USB-A for example)
c. A single PC can access that cellular data through that wired connection
--
Note that I've hotspotted at times, but I have never tethered.
I do not know if tethering requires anything special on the PC.
> Tethering, in the conversation you quote below, doesn't refer to be
> using a given tower. Tethering is simply connecting a computer to a
> mobile phone, so that the phone provides internet.
The _only_ reason I lump hotspotting & tethering is that T-Mobile does.
The limitations for each are combined and therefore treated the same.
Yes that's odd.
But that's my understanding of how T-Mobile USA does things.
To me, the definition of hotspotting is sort of like this:
a. Your phone has access to have cellular data via a tower connection
b. You make your phone an access point
c. Any number of Wi-Fi clients can access that cellular data through it
To me, the definition of tethering might be sort of something like this.
a. Your phone has access to have cellular data via a tower connection
b. You connect your phone by cable to a PC (USB-C to USB-A for example)
c. A single PC can access that cellular data through that wired connection
--
Note that I've hotspotted at times, but I have never tethered.
I do not know if tethering requires anything special on the PC.
Andy Burns
Dec 17, 2023, 11:24:31 PM12/17/23
to
Peter wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Per tower? to us in europe that seems an odd limitation
>
> Per tower limits always are going to be better than per device limits are.
>
> Think about the math when more than one tower in your location ends up
> giving you as many five gigabytes as towers your device can connect to.
It would hardly ever benefit me ...
My phone gets 20GB/month allowance and rarely uses half of that which
will be spread across numerous towers while I'm away from home and my
broadband/wifi.
For the last few months I've had a mifi with unlimited data purely
because of one location I visit that has almost zero coverage on my
phone's network, so all that data is a single tower and is over
5GB/month. In fact my phone uses wifi calling over the mifi when I'm
there, so I then get good phone coverage and good access from the laptop.
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Per tower? to us in europe that seems an odd limitation
>
>
> Think about the math when more than one tower in your location ends up
> giving you as many five gigabytes as towers your device can connect to.
It would hardly ever benefit me ...
My phone gets 20GB/month allowance and rarely uses half of that which
will be spread across numerous towers while I'm away from home and my
broadband/wifi.
For the last few months I've had a mifi with unlimited data purely
because of one location I visit that has almost zero coverage on my
phone's network, so all that data is a single tower and is over
5GB/month. In fact my phone uses wifi calling over the mifi when I'm
there, so I then get good phone coverage and good access from the laptop.
micky
Dec 18, 2023, 12:51:36 AM12/18/23
to
In comp.mobile.android, on Mon, 18 Dec 2023 04:24:27 +0000, Andy Burns
So the mifi is using a different cellular carrier than your phone is???
Is that why it works?
>
Is that why it works?
>
Chris
Dec 18, 2023, 2:56:00 AM12/18/23
to
Peter <conf...@nospam.net> wrote:
never heard of such an idiotic system.
Would also be a nightmare for the network to manage.
> Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>> Just to be clear on how the 5GB/month/tower tethering/hotspotting
>>> limitation works in the USA on a typical post-paid T-Mobile plan...
>>
>> Per tower? to us in europe that seems an odd limitation, we pay per
>> device and can use the specified amount of data anywhere in the country
>> (or when roaming, if appropriate).
>
>>> Just to be clear on how the 5GB/month/tower tethering/hotspotting
>>> limitation works in the USA on a typical post-paid T-Mobile plan...
>>
>> Per tower? to us in europe that seems an odd limitation, we pay per
>> device and can use the specified amount of data anywhere in the country
>> (or when roaming, if appropriate).
>
> Per tower limits always are going to be better than per device limits are.
>
> Think about the math when more than one tower in your location ends up
> giving you as many five gigabytes as towers your device can connect to.
Pointless as users have no control over which tower they control to. I have
>
> Think about the math when more than one tower in your location ends up
> giving you as many five gigabytes as towers your device can connect to.
never heard of such an idiotic system.
Would also be a nightmare for the network to manage.
Andy Burns
Dec 18, 2023, 3:20:59 AM12/18/23
to
micky wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> For the last few months I've had a mifi with unlimited data purely
>> because of one location I visit that has almost zero coverage on my
>> phone's network
>
mast sharing between them, and numerous MVNOs piggy-backing on the four.
Only one operator gives good coverage at my late parents' house and
that's not my phone's operator, and I can't roam.
So it's worthwhile at the moment to pay for two SIMs ... when I'm there
I need good voice and data for work (phone line is disconnected) so my
mobile phone uses wifi calling through the mifi to get excellent signal,
I could probably get away with 50GB or 100GB/month, but the marginal
cost to unlimited is small enough to justify.
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> For the last few months I've had a mifi with unlimited data purely
>> because of one location I visit that has almost zero coverage on my
>> phone's network
>
> So the mifi is using a different cellular carrier than your phone is???
> Is that why it works?
Indeed; there are four mobile operators in the UK, with quite a lot of
> Is that why it works?
mast sharing between them, and numerous MVNOs piggy-backing on the four.
Only one operator gives good coverage at my late parents' house and
that's not my phone's operator, and I can't roam.
So it's worthwhile at the moment to pay for two SIMs ... when I'm there
I need good voice and data for work (phone line is disconnected) so my
mobile phone uses wifi calling through the mifi to get excellent signal,
I could probably get away with 50GB or 100GB/month, but the marginal
cost to unlimited is small enough to justify.
Wally J
Dec 18, 2023, 10:22:40 AM12/18/23
to
Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
> Pointless as users have no control over which tower they control to. I have
> never heard of such an idiotic system.
>
> Would also be a nightmare for the network to manage.
Just to be clear, Chris, we're talking also to Android users, not only iOS
users, where on Android, I've almost never failed to do whatever I want to.
So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
<https://i.postimg.cc/BQMVhnGt/5gvslte01.jpg> LTE is currently selected
Andy Burns (who knows more than I do about it) already reflected on one way
but I'm also aware of other potential methods (some of which I've tried).
<https://i.postimg.cc/FFByv7Ps/bands01.jpg> Hidden Network-Mode Activity
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZKnwPGQ0/bands02.jpg> Hidden Band-Selection Activity
<https://i.postimg.cc/L5CZHt2k/bands03.jpg> Band selection options
In summary, rest assured, on Android & on Linux you can do almost anything
you want to (we just need to learn the best methods to choose the tower).
*Have you ever tethered? How does it work?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/XqUmekUNHFA>
--
All the screenshots in this post are those taken by me on my own phone.
> Pointless as users have no control over which tower they control to. I have
> never heard of such an idiotic system.
>
> Would also be a nightmare for the network to manage.
users, where on Android, I've almost never failed to do whatever I want to.
So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
<https://i.postimg.cc/BQMVhnGt/5gvslte01.jpg> LTE is currently selected
Andy Burns (who knows more than I do about it) already reflected on one way
but I'm also aware of other potential methods (some of which I've tried).
<https://i.postimg.cc/FFByv7Ps/bands01.jpg> Hidden Network-Mode Activity
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZKnwPGQ0/bands02.jpg> Hidden Band-Selection Activity
<https://i.postimg.cc/L5CZHt2k/bands03.jpg> Band selection options
In summary, rest assured, on Android & on Linux you can do almost anything
you want to (we just need to learn the best methods to choose the tower).
*Have you ever tethered? How does it work?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/XqUmekUNHFA>
--
All the screenshots in this post are those taken by me on my own phone.
Wally J
Dec 18, 2023, 10:54:46 AM12/18/23
to
Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote
>> Is it possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing your location?
>
> i'd have thought the only factor in your control is to change what
> band(s) your phone is using, but since it will chose the fastest when
> left to itself, you will most likely be slowing your connection down by
> forcing it e.g. from 5G to 4G/3G, and may end up on the same tower anyway.
Hi Andy,
I greatly appreciate your input as you know more about Android than I'll
ever know, where you know I have debug tools that tell me sectors & bands.
<https://i.postimg.cc/CKFhMZtS/signal03.jpg> celltower realtime debug
It would be very convenient to arbitrarily choose towers given we already
know at any given time all neighboring towers and the bands they support.
<https://i.postimg.cc/N0fx62rz/speedtest18.jpg> Neighboring cells & bands
I agree it's trivial to choose the band you want to use, where I have done
that using a one-tap shortcut to a hidden Android band-selection activity.
And I thank you for outlining the caveat that any restriction will likely
lower speeds, and perhaps might not change the all-important Tower ID
because there are plenty of sector antennas which show up in diagnostics.
*Firebase? Where is your Android cell tower connections log?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/iT4i40Ze5QY/>
But remember, I _already_ can already switch between _three_ cell 'towers'.
a. My femtocell
b. My cellular repeater
c. Whatever tower my phone connects to
Where, it's unambiguous which sector antenna I'm connected to at any time.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Gtywwn8f/signal01.jpg> cell tower id connected to
At home I mostly connect first to my femtocell but if there is no Internet
then my cellular signal (I'm not sure about data) comes from a repeater.
<https://i.postimg.cc/XJChDCPr/spare-access-points.jpg> Home cell repeater
My WISP Internet drops relatively frequently as it comes from miles away.
<https://i.postimg.cc/VvqLKQtQ/wifi.jpg> Typical range is about 10 miles
But here in the mountains, the power goes off twice a month for a day at a
time, so often neither my Internet nor my cellular repeaters are working.
Then I'm connected to the nearest cellular tower, which, luckily, is only
about five miles (by land) away - which is likely only a mile or two LOS.
Luckily, Android tells you the "neighboring cells", which if I understand
what they might be referring to, those are nearby possible cell towers.
<https://i.postimg.cc/BvnxJ0hd/speedtest24.jpg> Note neighboring cells
Do you think that's what "Neighboring Cells" refers to in the debug tools?
--
If so, I would like to be able to manually switch to those neighboring
cells, as the debug tools tell me their signal strength and their bands.
>> Is it possible to _manually_ switch towers w/o changing your location?
>
> i'd have thought the only factor in your control is to change what
> band(s) your phone is using, but since it will chose the fastest when
> left to itself, you will most likely be slowing your connection down by
> forcing it e.g. from 5G to 4G/3G, and may end up on the same tower anyway.
I greatly appreciate your input as you know more about Android than I'll
ever know, where you know I have debug tools that tell me sectors & bands.
<https://i.postimg.cc/CKFhMZtS/signal03.jpg> celltower realtime debug
It would be very convenient to arbitrarily choose towers given we already
know at any given time all neighboring towers and the bands they support.
<https://i.postimg.cc/N0fx62rz/speedtest18.jpg> Neighboring cells & bands
I agree it's trivial to choose the band you want to use, where I have done
that using a one-tap shortcut to a hidden Android band-selection activity.
And I thank you for outlining the caveat that any restriction will likely
lower speeds, and perhaps might not change the all-important Tower ID
because there are plenty of sector antennas which show up in diagnostics.
*Firebase? Where is your Android cell tower connections log?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/iT4i40Ze5QY/>
But remember, I _already_ can already switch between _three_ cell 'towers'.
a. My femtocell
b. My cellular repeater
c. Whatever tower my phone connects to
Where, it's unambiguous which sector antenna I'm connected to at any time.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Gtywwn8f/signal01.jpg> cell tower id connected to
At home I mostly connect first to my femtocell but if there is no Internet
then my cellular signal (I'm not sure about data) comes from a repeater.
<https://i.postimg.cc/XJChDCPr/spare-access-points.jpg> Home cell repeater
My WISP Internet drops relatively frequently as it comes from miles away.
<https://i.postimg.cc/VvqLKQtQ/wifi.jpg> Typical range is about 10 miles
But here in the mountains, the power goes off twice a month for a day at a
time, so often neither my Internet nor my cellular repeaters are working.
Then I'm connected to the nearest cellular tower, which, luckily, is only
about five miles (by land) away - which is likely only a mile or two LOS.
Luckily, Android tells you the "neighboring cells", which if I understand
what they might be referring to, those are nearby possible cell towers.
<https://i.postimg.cc/BvnxJ0hd/speedtest24.jpg> Note neighboring cells
Do you think that's what "Neighboring Cells" refers to in the debug tools?
--
If so, I would like to be able to manually switch to those neighboring
cells, as the debug tools tell me their signal strength and their bands.
Alan
Dec 18, 2023, 1:05:06 PM12/18/23
to
On 2023-12-18 07:22, Wally J wrote:
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> Pointless as users have no control over which tower they control to. I have
>> never heard of such an idiotic system.
>>
>> Would also be a nightmare for the network to manage.
>
> Just to be clear, Chris, we're talking also to Android users, not only iOS
> users, where on Android, I've almost never failed to do whatever I want to.
>
> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/BQMVhnGt/5gvslte01.jpg> LTE is currently selected
>
> Andy Burns (who knows more than I do about it) already reflected on one way
> but I'm also aware of other potential methods (some of which I've tried).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/FFByv7Ps/bands01.jpg> Hidden Network-Mode Activity
> <https://i.postimg.cc/ZKnwPGQ0/bands02.jpg> Hidden Band-Selection Activity
> <https://i.postimg.cc/L5CZHt2k/bands03.jpg> Band selection options
>
> In summary, rest assured, on Android & on Linux you can do almost anything
> you want to (we just need to learn the best methods to choose the tower).
You've not shown ANYTHING that suggests you can choose which TOWER your
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> Pointless as users have no control over which tower they control to. I have
>> never heard of such an idiotic system.
>>
>> Would also be a nightmare for the network to manage.
>
> Just to be clear, Chris, we're talking also to Android users, not only iOS
> users, where on Android, I've almost never failed to do whatever I want to.
>
> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/BQMVhnGt/5gvslte01.jpg> LTE is currently selected
>
> Andy Burns (who knows more than I do about it) already reflected on one way
> but I'm also aware of other potential methods (some of which I've tried).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/FFByv7Ps/bands01.jpg> Hidden Network-Mode Activity
> <https://i.postimg.cc/ZKnwPGQ0/bands02.jpg> Hidden Band-Selection Activity
> <https://i.postimg.cc/L5CZHt2k/bands03.jpg> Band selection options
>
> In summary, rest assured, on Android & on Linux you can do almost anything
> you want to (we just need to learn the best methods to choose the tower).
phone connects to.
Chris
Dec 19, 2023, 3:15:56 AM12/19/23
to
Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> Pointless as users have no control over which tower they control to. I have
>> never heard of such an idiotic system.
>>
>> Would also be a nightmare for the network to manage.
>
> Just to be clear, Chris, we're talking also to Android users, not only iOS
> users, where on Android, I've almost never failed to do whatever I want to.
>
> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
I doubt it very much. It defeats the whole purpose of a cellular network.
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> Pointless as users have no control over which tower they control to. I have
>> never heard of such an idiotic system.
>>
>> Would also be a nightmare for the network to manage.
>
> Just to be clear, Chris, we're talking also to Android users, not only iOS
> users, where on Android, I've almost never failed to do whatever I want to.
>
> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
LTE is not a tower. Post a video capture of you manually hopping between
towers.
> Andy Burns (who knows more than I do about it) already reflected on one way
> but I'm also aware of other potential methods (some of which I've tried).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/FFByv7Ps/bands01.jpg> Hidden Network-Mode Activity
> <https://i.postimg.cc/ZKnwPGQ0/bands02.jpg> Hidden Band-Selection Activity
> <https://i.postimg.cc/L5CZHt2k/bands03.jpg> Band selection options
will have many bands so you can use bands as a proxy for towers.
You've yet to also demonstrate you being to get 5GB of data per tower. Show
a screenshot of your billing broken down by tower.
> In summary, rest assured, on Android & on Linux you can do almost anything
> you want to
functionality. Or are so tortuous to do that it is not worthwhile beyond
academic interest.
David Woolley
Dec 19, 2023, 8:45:37 AM12/19/23
to
On 18/12/2023 15:54, Wally J wrote:
> It would be very convenient to arbitrarily choose towers given we already
> know at any given time all neighboring towers and the bands they support.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/N0fx62rz/speedtest18.jpg> Neighboring cells & bands
The aim of the network will be to use the capacity of the towers most
> It would be very convenient to arbitrarily choose towers given we already
> know at any given time all neighboring towers and the bands they support.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/N0fx62rz/speedtest18.jpg> Neighboring cells & bands
effectively to handle the current traffic. If users can selfishly
optimise the choice of tower, it will mean the network, as a whole, will
not work as a well.
How clever they are at doing that may vary, but they have a picture of
all the users and all the towers they can see, not just the towers one
user can see.
micky
Dec 19, 2023, 11:33:26 AM12/19/23
to
In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:15:52 -0000 (UTC), Chris
perhaps would be a good way to phrase it. But the purpose is not to let
the system assign cell towers. The purpose is to make phone calls and
ata available to people wherever they are even if they are moving. Since
he's getting his data, he hasnt' defeated the purpose, let alone the
whole purpose.
This is not to say I disagree with anything else you've said.
Exactly
<ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>> Pointless as users have no control over which tower they control to. I have
>>> never heard of such an idiotic system.
>>>
>>> Would also be a nightmare for the network to manage.
>>
>> Just to be clear, Chris, we're talking also to Android users, not only iOS
>> users, where on Android, I've almost never failed to do whatever I want to.
>>
>> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
>
>I doubt it very much. It defeats the whole purpose of a cellular network.
That's a little strong. It ignores the design of a cellular network,
>Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>> Pointless as users have no control over which tower they control to. I have
>>> never heard of such an idiotic system.
>>>
>>> Would also be a nightmare for the network to manage.
>>
>> Just to be clear, Chris, we're talking also to Android users, not only iOS
>> users, where on Android, I've almost never failed to do whatever I want to.
>>
>> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
>
>I doubt it very much. It defeats the whole purpose of a cellular network.
perhaps would be a good way to phrase it. But the purpose is not to let
the system assign cell towers. The purpose is to make phone calls and
ata available to people wherever they are even if they are moving. Since
he's getting his data, he hasnt' defeated the purpose, let alone the
whole purpose.
This is not to say I disagree with anything else you've said.
Exactly
Wally J
Dec 19, 2023, 12:29:23 PM12/19/23
to
David Woolley <da...@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote
> The aim of the network will be to use the capacity of the towers most
> effectively to handle the current traffic. If users can selfishly
> optimise the choice of tower, it will mean the network, as a whole, will
> not work as a well.
Thanks for your help and advice as this task seems easy to do at this point
(although every neighboring-tower situation will present its own issues).
Luckily, my aim is EXACTLY the same, to optimize my phone's capacity,
where at this point the question is only asking HOW it can be done to
choose your own tower in order to gain the additional 5GB/line/month/tower
so it's a valid and similar pursuit.
> How clever they are at doing that may vary, but they have a picture of
> all the users and all the towers they can see, not just the towers one
> user can see.
Luckily, I can see EXACTLY what they see with respect to my phone, which
means I can see every sector antenna (called "neighboring cells") &
frequency - so I too can be "clever at doing it" - which is why I asked.
In summary, I think it can easily be done to manually switch towers, but of
course I haven't tried it yet - but I agree with Andy Burns that frequency
changes should do the trick (where the potential loss in speed is offset by
the purposeful gain in overcoming "per-congested-tower" data limitations).
So far, theoretically attacking this problem set, the solution is...
1. You survey the local towers (trivial) and see all neighboring cells
2. You set your phone bands (trivial) to the bands of specific cells
Of course, the "realistic" part that will depend purely on the data is that
maybe the next-nearest sector antenna uses the _same_ bands.
Only the real data knows for sure.
--
Almost never (if ever) do we fail to do what we want on our own phones.
> The aim of the network will be to use the capacity of the towers most
> effectively to handle the current traffic. If users can selfishly
> optimise the choice of tower, it will mean the network, as a whole, will
> not work as a well.
(although every neighboring-tower situation will present its own issues).
Luckily, my aim is EXACTLY the same, to optimize my phone's capacity,
where at this point the question is only asking HOW it can be done to
choose your own tower in order to gain the additional 5GB/line/month/tower
so it's a valid and similar pursuit.
> How clever they are at doing that may vary, but they have a picture of
> all the users and all the towers they can see, not just the towers one
> user can see.
means I can see every sector antenna (called "neighboring cells") &
frequency - so I too can be "clever at doing it" - which is why I asked.
In summary, I think it can easily be done to manually switch towers, but of
course I haven't tried it yet - but I agree with Andy Burns that frequency
changes should do the trick (where the potential loss in speed is offset by
the purposeful gain in overcoming "per-congested-tower" data limitations).
So far, theoretically attacking this problem set, the solution is...
1. You survey the local towers (trivial) and see all neighboring cells
2. You set your phone bands (trivial) to the bands of specific cells
Of course, the "realistic" part that will depend purely on the data is that
maybe the next-nearest sector antenna uses the _same_ bands.
Only the real data knows for sure.
--
Almost never (if ever) do we fail to do what we want on our own phones.
Alan
Dec 19, 2023, 12:37:34 PM12/19/23
to
david
Dec 19, 2023, 1:51:07 PM12/19/23
to
Using <news:04h3oih1dfk8iov04...@4ax.com>, micky wrote:
>>You've yet to also demonstrate you being to get 5GB of data per tower. Show
>>a screenshot of your billing broken down by tower.
What kind of person asks for a personal bill?
>>You've yet to also demonstrate you being to get 5GB of data per tower. Show
>>a screenshot of your billing broken down by tower.
Especially when it's the normal T-Mobile charges?
Are you accusing him of lying about the 5 gigabytes per tower per month?
Why don't you call T-Mobile and ask if you are so sure that he is lying?
Wally J
Dec 19, 2023, 4:41:02 PM12/19/23
to
Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote
> Indeed; there are four mobile operators in the UK, with quite a lot of
> mast sharing between them, and numerous MVNOs piggy-backing on the four.
One option is to check out the towers nearest wherever you are.
Is this a reasonably accurate listing of known UK cellular providers?
<https://www.cellmapper.net/>
Menu > Provider > United Kingdom
1. Vodafone UK - United Kingdom - 23415
2. O2-UK- United Kingdom - 23410
3. EE - United Kingdom - 23430
4. 3UK - United Kingdom - 23420
5. EE (former Oraqnge PCS Ltd.) - United Kingdom - 23433
6. Sure Ltd. - United Kingdom - 23455
7. EE/Emergency Services Network - United Kingdom - 23432
8. JT (Jersey) limited - United Kingdom - 23450
9. Three Broadband (Former UKB) - United Kingdom - 23451
10. Jersey - Airtel-Vodafone - United Kingdom - 2343
11. Manx Telecom - United Kingdom - 23458
12. Provider 315 - United Kingdom - 234315
13. FMS Solutiuons Limited - United Kingdom - 2344
14. BT 5G test network - United Kingdomx - 23476
15. ESN - United Kingdom - 23431
16. Provider 200 - United Kingdom - 234200
17. Vodaforne Ltd (C&W) - United Kingdom - 2347
18. 234 207 - United Kingdom - 234207
19. 234-159 - United Kingdom - 234159
20. BT OnePhone Limited - United Kingdom - 2348
21. O2 Trial Network - United Kingdom - 2342
22. Provider 73 - United Kingdom - 23473
23. 23486 - United Kingdom - 23486
24. Telet Research - United Kingdom - 23588
> Only one operator gives good coverage at my late parents' house and
> that's not my phone's operator, and I can't roam.
Regarding that you can't roam, I've never understood roaming.
<https://i.postimg.cc/7hFSk55g/roaming01.jpg> My roaming settings
I have free roaming in the USA & Europe but I'm not sure if roaming apples
to both phone calls and data or only to data as it's called "data roaming"
on the phone (but T-Mobile says it's free roaming, sans a distinction).
Android 13 Galaxy Settings > Connections > Mobile networks >
Data roaming = on/off
Is roaming only for data?
If not, is there another setting elsewhere for "cellular" roaming?
--
Usenet is a wonderful way to meet smart people on both sides of the Pond.
> Indeed; there are four mobile operators in the UK, with quite a lot of
> mast sharing between them, and numerous MVNOs piggy-backing on the four.
Is this a reasonably accurate listing of known UK cellular providers?
<https://www.cellmapper.net/>
Menu > Provider > United Kingdom
1. Vodafone UK - United Kingdom - 23415
2. O2-UK- United Kingdom - 23410
3. EE - United Kingdom - 23430
4. 3UK - United Kingdom - 23420
5. EE (former Oraqnge PCS Ltd.) - United Kingdom - 23433
6. Sure Ltd. - United Kingdom - 23455
7. EE/Emergency Services Network - United Kingdom - 23432
8. JT (Jersey) limited - United Kingdom - 23450
9. Three Broadband (Former UKB) - United Kingdom - 23451
10. Jersey - Airtel-Vodafone - United Kingdom - 2343
11. Manx Telecom - United Kingdom - 23458
12. Provider 315 - United Kingdom - 234315
13. FMS Solutiuons Limited - United Kingdom - 2344
14. BT 5G test network - United Kingdomx - 23476
15. ESN - United Kingdom - 23431
16. Provider 200 - United Kingdom - 234200
17. Vodaforne Ltd (C&W) - United Kingdom - 2347
18. 234 207 - United Kingdom - 234207
19. 234-159 - United Kingdom - 234159
20. BT OnePhone Limited - United Kingdom - 2348
21. O2 Trial Network - United Kingdom - 2342
22. Provider 73 - United Kingdom - 23473
23. 23486 - United Kingdom - 23486
24. Telet Research - United Kingdom - 23588
> Only one operator gives good coverage at my late parents' house and
> that's not my phone's operator, and I can't roam.
<https://i.postimg.cc/7hFSk55g/roaming01.jpg> My roaming settings
I have free roaming in the USA & Europe but I'm not sure if roaming apples
to both phone calls and data or only to data as it's called "data roaming"
on the phone (but T-Mobile says it's free roaming, sans a distinction).
Android 13 Galaxy Settings > Connections > Mobile networks >
Data roaming = on/off
Is roaming only for data?
If not, is there another setting elsewhere for "cellular" roaming?
--
Usenet is a wonderful way to meet smart people on both sides of the Pond.
Wally J
Dec 19, 2023, 5:15:44 PM12/19/23
to
Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote
> For a few weeks while emptying-out my parents house, I lived there,
> phone line and broadband had long been cut off and my normal mobile
> phone gets rubbish coverage there, so I used a MiFi on a different
> network, with an unlimited SIM I used data in the same fashion as I
> would at home, and clocked up 200GB usage with no eyelids batted by the
> mobile provider.
I have both a cellular repeater and a femtocell, which, if I ever wanted
to, I could _move_ it (much like you did with your MiFi, whatever that is).
<https://i.postimg.cc/XJChDCPr/spare-access-points.jpg> Cellular Repeater
<https://i.postimg.cc/fTpN70Lf/femtocell.jpg> Cellular Femtocell
Legally I'd be in the wrong, at least in the USA, I think, because my
personal cell towers are registered with the FCC (I believe) to my home.
But I can't imagine why the repeater or femtocell wouldn't work, as they're
not "tied down" to anything inside the home that I am aware of. Are you?
Technically, if not legally, wouldn't both the free T-Mobile cellular
repeater & the free T-Mobile cellular femtocell work anywhere in the USA?
> For a few weeks while emptying-out my parents house, I lived there,
> phone line and broadband had long been cut off and my normal mobile
> phone gets rubbish coverage there, so I used a MiFi on a different
> network, with an unlimited SIM I used data in the same fashion as I
> would at home, and clocked up 200GB usage with no eyelids batted by the
> mobile provider.
to, I could _move_ it (much like you did with your MiFi, whatever that is).
<https://i.postimg.cc/XJChDCPr/spare-access-points.jpg> Cellular Repeater
<https://i.postimg.cc/fTpN70Lf/femtocell.jpg> Cellular Femtocell
Legally I'd be in the wrong, at least in the USA, I think, because my
personal cell towers are registered with the FCC (I believe) to my home.
But I can't imagine why the repeater or femtocell wouldn't work, as they're
not "tied down" to anything inside the home that I am aware of. Are you?
Technically, if not legally, wouldn't both the free T-Mobile cellular
repeater & the free T-Mobile cellular femtocell work anywhere in the USA?
Wally J
Dec 19, 2023, 5:16:03 PM12/19/23
to
Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote
> i'd have thought the only factor in your control is to change what
> band(s) your phone is using, but since it will chose the fastest when
> left to itself, you will most likely be slowing your connection down by
> forcing it e.g. from 5G to 4G/3G, and may end up on the same tower anyway.
Good news!
I just checked a world-wide cell-tower band-location map which shows
T-Mobile towers near me which list all bands that each tower serves.
<https://www.cellmapper.net/>
Some towers have double the number of bands, so the lack of overlap
will (in some cases) make it very easy to choose cell tower by band.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YCG9NHzT/roaming02.jpg> Tower location by band
This is an indication that what Andy Burns said "might" work in that I can
set my phone to one of those two non-intersecting bands to connect to it.
> i'd have thought the only factor in your control is to change what
> band(s) your phone is using, but since it will chose the fastest when
> left to itself, you will most likely be slowing your connection down by
> forcing it e.g. from 5G to 4G/3G, and may end up on the same tower anyway.
I just checked a world-wide cell-tower band-location map which shows
T-Mobile towers near me which list all bands that each tower serves.
<https://www.cellmapper.net/>
Some towers have double the number of bands, so the lack of overlap
will (in some cases) make it very easy to choose cell tower by band.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YCG9NHzT/roaming02.jpg> Tower location by band
This is an indication that what Andy Burns said "might" work in that I can
set my phone to one of those two non-intersecting bands to connect to it.
Wally J
Dec 19, 2023, 5:53:09 PM12/19/23
to
Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote
> <https://www.cellmapper.net/>
While that site tells you the bands per carrier per tower, this site seems
to have performance over time (but not all towers have been tested AFAICT).
<https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/cell-tower-map-united-states/>
> <https://www.cellmapper.net/>
While that site tells you the bands per carrier per tower, this site seems
to have performance over time (but not all towers have been tested AFAICT).
<https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/cell-tower-map-united-states/>
notya...@gmail.com
Dec 20, 2023, 9:39:11 AM12/20/23
to
On Tuesday 19 December 2023 at 16:33:26 UTC, micky wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:15:52 -0000 (UTC), Chris
> <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> >> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
> >>
> >>> Pointless as users have no control over which tower they control to. I have
> >>> never heard of such an idiotic system.
> >>>
> >>> Would also be a nightmare for the network to manage.
> >>
> >> Just to be clear, Chris, we're talking also to Android users, not only iOS
> >> users, where on Android, I've almost never failed to do whatever I want to.
> >>
> >> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
> >
> >I doubt it very much. It defeats the whole purpose of a cellular network.
> That's a little strong. It ignores the design of a cellular network,
> perhaps would be a good way to phrase it. But the purpose is not to let
> the system assign cell towers. The purpose is to make phone calls and
> ata available to people wherever they are even if they are moving. Since
> he's getting his data, he hasnt' defeated the purpose, let alone the
> whole purpose.
It does defeat the purpose, however by invoking silly rules [to keep mobile data for mobile users] Tmobile US have encouraged customers to find ways to circumvent their arbitrary restrictions. A fair use clause would be more sensible.
> In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:15:52 -0000 (UTC), Chris
> <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> >> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
> >>
> >>> Pointless as users have no control over which tower they control to. I have
> >>> never heard of such an idiotic system.
> >>>
> >>> Would also be a nightmare for the network to manage.
> >>
> >> Just to be clear, Chris, we're talking also to Android users, not only iOS
> >> users, where on Android, I've almost never failed to do whatever I want to.
> >>
> >> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
> >
> >I doubt it very much. It defeats the whole purpose of a cellular network.
> That's a little strong. It ignores the design of a cellular network,
> perhaps would be a good way to phrase it. But the purpose is not to let
> the system assign cell towers. The purpose is to make phone calls and
> ata available to people wherever they are even if they are moving. Since
> he's getting his data, he hasnt' defeated the purpose, let alone the
> whole purpose.
>
> This is not to say I disagree with anything else you've said.
> >> <https://i.postimg.cc/BQMVhnGt/5gvslte01.jpg> LTE is currently selected
> >
> >LTE is not a tower.
Wally J
Dec 20, 2023, 10:07:16 PM12/20/23
to
Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
>
> I doubt it very much. It defeats the whole purpose of a cellular network.
Hi Chris,
I realize your iPhone is crippled, but on Android we can see nearby towers.
<https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg> graphical radio debuggers
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hn05bQwG/wifi02.jpg> Cellular-Z by Jersey Ho
<https://i.postimg.cc/fLC4zcm6/wifi04.jpg> Many signal strength apps
And on Android, it's literally trivial to set the bands we wish to use.
It's a hidden activity, but anyone who knows Android knows how to find it.
And on Android (not iOS) we can see exactly what band & unique sector
antenna we're connected to and we can also see nearby neighboring cells.
<https://i.postimg.cc/CKFhMZtS/signal03.jpg> celltower realtime location
While you can't do that on the crippled iPhone, even you can use the web.
<https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=310&MNC=260&type=LTE&latitude=38.0&longitude=-122.0>
So it's definitely possible.
But we all would likely agree choosing your tower by band is inefficient.
The question is only whether or not we are intelligent enough to figure out
how to do it more directly - e.g., by blacklisting/whitelisting tower IDs.
<https://i.postimg.cc/dVQJkL02/bands05.jpg> Tower by supported bands
> Post a video capture of you manually hopping between towers.
Again, I realize you hate that the iPhone is crippled, but on Android we
can easily set EARFCN so "hopping between towers" is certainly possible.
What we want though is a more direct way, e.g., blacklisting PCI or CellID.
> Again, bands not towers. You'll know full well that each individual tower
> will have many bands so you can use bands as a proxy for towers.
Again, you're thinking like crippled iPhone users & not like Android users.
We're empowered to see all neighboring towers & bands they support.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Gtywwn8f/signal01.jpg> cell signal strength graph
<https://i.postimg.cc/xCbVQ2pj/signal02.jpg> cell signal strength graph
<https://i.postimg.cc/CKFhMZtS/signal03.jpg> celltower realtime location
If you stop thinking like crippled iPhone users, you would be able to help.
> You've yet to also demonstrate you being to get 5GB of data per tower.
> Show a screenshot of your billing broken down by tower.
I'm not sure what you're insinuating, as usually you complain whenever
something is on Android you can't do on iOS (which is a lot of things).
Suffice to say that there are plenty of T-Mobile USA plans that limit the
amount of hotspotting you can do, and, in fact, they likely limit it on
purpose because they also want to sell you a mifi device for home Internet.
"Q: Can a hotspot replace home internet?
A: Hotspot devices, mobile hotspots, and their plans were made
for limited high-speed data usage on the go. These are not intended
to replace your home internet."
<https://www.t-mobile.com/devices/iot/hotspots>
If you look at T-Mobile's plans on public resources, you'd see all sorts of
prices and limitations on hotspotting for both tablets and for cellphones.
<https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/affordable-data-plans/hotspots>
>> In summary, rest assured, on Android & on Linux you can do almost anything
>> you want to
>
> Not denying that. A lot of times these efforts also break other
> functionality. Or are so tortuous to do that it is not worthwhile beyond
> academic interest.
Well, I have never approached even 1GB of hotspot/tethering data myself.
But it's a worthwhile endeavor to be able to choose the tower at will.
This thread has shown that it's definitely possible to see all the nearby
tower sector antennas & the bands that they support (at least on Android).
Given it's trivial to set the bands on Android, your argument that setting
the bands manually is "so tortuous to do that it's not worthwhile" may be
the case (even on Android, & certainly the crippled iPhone couldn't do it).
But I'm not on the crippled iPhone (although I do have plenty of iPads).
So I'll continue to seek a way to manually connect to unique celltower IDs.
--
An intelligent person doesn't give up the moment the marketing people tell
him to buy more product to do what they can do if they're smart about it.
>> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
>
> I doubt it very much. It defeats the whole purpose of a cellular network.
I realize your iPhone is crippled, but on Android we can see nearby towers.
<https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg> graphical radio debuggers
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hn05bQwG/wifi02.jpg> Cellular-Z by Jersey Ho
<https://i.postimg.cc/fLC4zcm6/wifi04.jpg> Many signal strength apps
And on Android, it's literally trivial to set the bands we wish to use.
It's a hidden activity, but anyone who knows Android knows how to find it.
And on Android (not iOS) we can see exactly what band & unique sector
antenna we're connected to and we can also see nearby neighboring cells.
<https://i.postimg.cc/CKFhMZtS/signal03.jpg> celltower realtime location
While you can't do that on the crippled iPhone, even you can use the web.
<https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=310&MNC=260&type=LTE&latitude=38.0&longitude=-122.0>
So it's definitely possible.
But we all would likely agree choosing your tower by band is inefficient.
The question is only whether or not we are intelligent enough to figure out
how to do it more directly - e.g., by blacklisting/whitelisting tower IDs.
<https://i.postimg.cc/dVQJkL02/bands05.jpg> Tower by supported bands
> Post a video capture of you manually hopping between towers.
can easily set EARFCN so "hopping between towers" is certainly possible.
What we want though is a more direct way, e.g., blacklisting PCI or CellID.
> Again, bands not towers. You'll know full well that each individual tower
> will have many bands so you can use bands as a proxy for towers.
We're empowered to see all neighboring towers & bands they support.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Gtywwn8f/signal01.jpg> cell signal strength graph
<https://i.postimg.cc/xCbVQ2pj/signal02.jpg> cell signal strength graph
<https://i.postimg.cc/CKFhMZtS/signal03.jpg> celltower realtime location
If you stop thinking like crippled iPhone users, you would be able to help.
> You've yet to also demonstrate you being to get 5GB of data per tower.
> Show a screenshot of your billing broken down by tower.
something is on Android you can't do on iOS (which is a lot of things).
Suffice to say that there are plenty of T-Mobile USA plans that limit the
amount of hotspotting you can do, and, in fact, they likely limit it on
purpose because they also want to sell you a mifi device for home Internet.
"Q: Can a hotspot replace home internet?
A: Hotspot devices, mobile hotspots, and their plans were made
for limited high-speed data usage on the go. These are not intended
to replace your home internet."
<https://www.t-mobile.com/devices/iot/hotspots>
If you look at T-Mobile's plans on public resources, you'd see all sorts of
prices and limitations on hotspotting for both tablets and for cellphones.
<https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/affordable-data-plans/hotspots>
>> In summary, rest assured, on Android & on Linux you can do almost anything
>> you want to
>
> Not denying that. A lot of times these efforts also break other
> functionality. Or are so tortuous to do that it is not worthwhile beyond
> academic interest.
But it's a worthwhile endeavor to be able to choose the tower at will.
This thread has shown that it's definitely possible to see all the nearby
tower sector antennas & the bands that they support (at least on Android).
Given it's trivial to set the bands on Android, your argument that setting
the bands manually is "so tortuous to do that it's not worthwhile" may be
the case (even on Android, & certainly the crippled iPhone couldn't do it).
But I'm not on the crippled iPhone (although I do have plenty of iPads).
So I'll continue to seek a way to manually connect to unique celltower IDs.
--
An intelligent person doesn't give up the moment the marketing people tell
him to buy more product to do what they can do if they're smart about it.
Wally J
Dec 20, 2023, 10:07:46 PM12/20/23
to
Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote
> For the last few months I've had a mifi with unlimited data purely
> because of one location I visit that has almost zero coverage on my
> phone's network, so all that data is a single tower and is over
> 5GB/month. In fact my phone uses wifi calling over the mifi when I'm
> there, so I then get good phone coverage and good access from the laptop.
Thanks, as always, for adding value to the thread discussion, Andy.
What we almost always accomplish, working together, is doing whatever it is
we want to do, where at this point, we want to choose the exact cell tower.
In trying to understand everything you said, first I had to look up what
"mi-fi" means, where T-Mobile says this about the registered trademark:
"Q: What is the difference between hotspot and Mi-Fi?
A: MiFi is a registered trademark that many people use to refer
to a hotspot device. Both MiFi devices and hotspot devices
allow you to connect to the internet on the go by creating
a secure wireless network for you, your family, or friends."
<https://www.t-mobile.com/devices/iot/hotspots>
Later on in that FAQ, they explain pretty much (without saying it outright)
why they limit the hotspotting/tethering to 5GB per month per line per
congested tower - given it would negate the need to buy Internet service.
"Q: Can a hotspot replace home internet?
A: Hotspot devices, mobile hotspots, and their plans were made
for limited high-speed data usage on the go. These are not intended
to replace your home internet."
<https://www.t-mobile.com/devices/iot/hotspots>
I noticed also that some T-Mobile plans do offer unlimited hotspot, but
those are slower speeds (which all T-Mobile data plans will do, AFAIK).
<https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/affordable-data-plans>
Each plan, as you must be aware, offers different hotspot limitations.
Mine is 5GB per month per line per congested tower which I never even get
close to reaching, but the kids on my plan get to that point frequently.
I suspect it's trivially easy to whitelist or blacklist cell tower IDs.
But I don't know how to do that yet. That's why I asked here first.
> For the last few months I've had a mifi with unlimited data purely
> because of one location I visit that has almost zero coverage on my
> phone's network, so all that data is a single tower and is over
> 5GB/month. In fact my phone uses wifi calling over the mifi when I'm
> there, so I then get good phone coverage and good access from the laptop.
What we almost always accomplish, working together, is doing whatever it is
we want to do, where at this point, we want to choose the exact cell tower.
In trying to understand everything you said, first I had to look up what
"mi-fi" means, where T-Mobile says this about the registered trademark:
"Q: What is the difference between hotspot and Mi-Fi?
A: MiFi is a registered trademark that many people use to refer
to a hotspot device. Both MiFi devices and hotspot devices
allow you to connect to the internet on the go by creating
a secure wireless network for you, your family, or friends."
<https://www.t-mobile.com/devices/iot/hotspots>
Later on in that FAQ, they explain pretty much (without saying it outright)
why they limit the hotspotting/tethering to 5GB per month per line per
congested tower - given it would negate the need to buy Internet service.
"Q: Can a hotspot replace home internet?
A: Hotspot devices, mobile hotspots, and their plans were made
for limited high-speed data usage on the go. These are not intended
to replace your home internet."
<https://www.t-mobile.com/devices/iot/hotspots>
those are slower speeds (which all T-Mobile data plans will do, AFAIK).
<https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/affordable-data-plans>
Each plan, as you must be aware, offers different hotspot limitations.
Mine is 5GB per month per line per congested tower which I never even get
close to reaching, but the kids on my plan get to that point frequently.
I suspect it's trivially easy to whitelist or blacklist cell tower IDs.
But I don't know how to do that yet. That's why I asked here first.
Wally J
Dec 20, 2023, 10:08:11 PM12/20/23
to
Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
> Again, bands not towers. You'll know full well that each individual tower
> will have many bands so you can use bands as a proxy for towers.
Hi Chris,
I welcome any useful input as it's only an "idea" at the moment, mainly
because (a) we almost never fail to do what we want to do, and
(b) because it's trivial to survey available sector antennae by unique ID.
You're completely correct that bands alone aren't the perfect way to choose
a cell tower - even as turning bands on and off is trivial to do.
Note that the question is asking _what_ we can do, not what we will do.
The bands of nearby towers are trivial to test and also trivial to set.
But that doesn't mean changing bands is the best way to choose a tower.
The whole point of the question was to find the _best_ way to choose towers
(where, let's never forget, almost never do we fail to do what we want to).
> You've yet to also demonstrate you being to get 5GB of data per tower.
Chris. This is standard T-Mobile policy. I don't need to "show" something
that is common knowledge. Are you accusing me of lying? Why? What for?
> Show a screenshot of your billing broken down by tower.
Jesus Christ, Chris.
What's no longer shocking is how you iKooks hate that your iPhones are
crippled such that you are now demanding me to prove what EVERYONE on
T-Mobile USA already knows (as it's the standard T-Mobile billing policy).
It's fine that you _hate_ that your iPhone is crippled, Chris, but asking
me to prove T-Mobile's well-publicized billing policy is childish of you.
If you child-like Apple iKooks want to claim everyone is a liar so that
they have to prove even T-Mobile's publicized policy, then sue me in court.
Sheesh. Seriously Chris... what's your problem? You think everyone lies?
It's no longer shocking how childish these low-IQ ignorant uneducated
iKooks are simply because they _hate_ their iPhones are crippled.
>> In summary, rest assured, on Android & on Linux you can do almost anything
>> you want to
>
> Not denying that. A lot of times these efforts also break other
> functionality. Or are so tortuous to do that it is not worthwhile beyond
> academic interest.
Almost never have I ever failed to do what I wanted to do on Android,
Chris, and I can do a _lot_ of things most people don't know how to do.
That was the whole point of asking this question, Chris...
To find out from those who know more than I do how easy/hard it would be.
So far, the only viable suggestion is the following (trivial) actions:
1. Survey the bands of the neighboring sector antennas (trivial to do)
2. Determine the band that allows you to connect to the desired antenna
3. Set the phone to that band (which is trivial to do on Android).
I agree with you, Chris, that even as this is easy to do, it's not optimum.
Which is why the question was asked in the first place.
To find out if someone out there knows more than I do who can help.
> Again, bands not towers. You'll know full well that each individual tower
> will have many bands so you can use bands as a proxy for towers.
I welcome any useful input as it's only an "idea" at the moment, mainly
because (a) we almost never fail to do what we want to do, and
(b) because it's trivial to survey available sector antennae by unique ID.
You're completely correct that bands alone aren't the perfect way to choose
a cell tower - even as turning bands on and off is trivial to do.
Note that the question is asking _what_ we can do, not what we will do.
The bands of nearby towers are trivial to test and also trivial to set.
But that doesn't mean changing bands is the best way to choose a tower.
The whole point of the question was to find the _best_ way to choose towers
(where, let's never forget, almost never do we fail to do what we want to).
> You've yet to also demonstrate you being to get 5GB of data per tower.
that is common knowledge. Are you accusing me of lying? Why? What for?
> Show a screenshot of your billing broken down by tower.
What's no longer shocking is how you iKooks hate that your iPhones are
crippled such that you are now demanding me to prove what EVERYONE on
T-Mobile USA already knows (as it's the standard T-Mobile billing policy).
It's fine that you _hate_ that your iPhone is crippled, Chris, but asking
me to prove T-Mobile's well-publicized billing policy is childish of you.
If you child-like Apple iKooks want to claim everyone is a liar so that
they have to prove even T-Mobile's publicized policy, then sue me in court.
Sheesh. Seriously Chris... what's your problem? You think everyone lies?
It's no longer shocking how childish these low-IQ ignorant uneducated
iKooks are simply because they _hate_ their iPhones are crippled.
>> In summary, rest assured, on Android & on Linux you can do almost anything
>> you want to
>
> Not denying that. A lot of times these efforts also break other
> functionality. Or are so tortuous to do that it is not worthwhile beyond
> academic interest.
Chris, and I can do a _lot_ of things most people don't know how to do.
That was the whole point of asking this question, Chris...
To find out from those who know more than I do how easy/hard it would be.
So far, the only viable suggestion is the following (trivial) actions:
1. Survey the bands of the neighboring sector antennas (trivial to do)
2. Determine the band that allows you to connect to the desired antenna
3. Set the phone to that band (which is trivial to do on Android).
I agree with you, Chris, that even as this is easy to do, it's not optimum.
Which is why the question was asked in the first place.
To find out if someone out there knows more than I do who can help.
Wally J
Dec 20, 2023, 10:18:33 PM12/20/23
to
Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> Again, bands not towers. You'll know full well that each individual tower
>> will have many bands so you can use bands as a proxy for towers.
>
> Hi Chris,
> I welcome any useful input as it's only an "idea" at the moment, mainly
Ooops. Ignore that post as I had originally responded and then decided to
be nicer in my response since Chris was only trying to help.
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> Again, bands not towers. You'll know full well that each individual tower
>> will have many bands so you can use bands as a proxy for towers.
>
> Hi Chris,
> I welcome any useful input as it's only an "idea" at the moment, mainly
be nicer in my response since Chris was only trying to help.
Alan
Dec 20, 2023, 10:47:07 PM12/20/23
to
On 2023-12-20 19:07, Wally J wrote:
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
>>
>> I doubt it very much. It defeats the whole purpose of a cellular network.
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I realize your iPhone is crippled, but on Android we can see nearby towers.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg> graphical radio debuggers
> <https://i.postimg.cc/Hn05bQwG/wifi02.jpg> Cellular-Z by Jersey Ho
> <https://i.postimg.cc/fLC4zcm6/wifi04.jpg> Many signal strength apps
>
> And on Android, it's literally trivial to set the bands we wish to use.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/FFByv7Ps/bands01.jpg> Hidden Network-Mode Activity
Which is not setting which tower to which you connect.
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
>>
>> I doubt it very much. It defeats the whole purpose of a cellular network.
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I realize your iPhone is crippled, but on Android we can see nearby towers.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg> graphical radio debuggers
> <https://i.postimg.cc/Hn05bQwG/wifi02.jpg> Cellular-Z by Jersey Ho
> <https://i.postimg.cc/fLC4zcm6/wifi04.jpg> Many signal strength apps
>
> And on Android, it's literally trivial to set the bands we wish to use.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/FFByv7Ps/bands01.jpg> Hidden Network-Mode Activity
david
Dec 21, 2023, 12:26:12 AM12/21/23
to
Using <news:um0cfn$ud88$1...@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:
> Which is not setting which tower to which you connect.
Not sure how it works on ios but the free llamalab "automate" app can tell
> Which is not setting which tower to which you connect.
android to use any desired cell tower which does what the op is asking for.
https://llamalab.com/automate/
Cell tower pick
A decision block that lets the user choose nearby cellular towers.
https://llamalab.com/automate/doc/block/cell_site_pick.html
The fiber will pause until the user has chosen one or more cell towers,
cancelled the dialog or the timeout expired.
The initial cell towers input argument can be a single cell, a text of
comma separated cells, an array of single cells or a dictionary where each
key is a single cell.
Cell format
A cell is text that begins with a network type followed by one or more
optional hexdecimal properties separated by colon:
Network Properties Example
CDMA SID:NID:BID cdma:43ad:5f3:2da
GSM LAC:RNC:CID gsm:ca::427
LTE TAC:CI:PCI lte:ca:ca:427
WCDMA LAC:CID wcdma:54ae:3d57
UMTS PSC umts:503
TD-SCDMA LAC:CID tdscdma:54ae:3d57
NR NCI nr:3d743a23d
Input arguments
Initial cell towers - initially shown and selected cells, even if not
nearby, default is none.
Subscription id - id of subscription (SIM) to scan for cells, default is
the system default subscription. (Android 10+)
Timeout - time until the notification/dialog is automatically canceled,
default is no timeout.
Notification channel - UUID of notification channel used for shown
notification, default is the flow default or Flow.
Show window - whether to show the dialog window directly without having to
tap the notification. Requires the "appear atop of other apps or parts of
the screen" privilege on Android 10+.
Output variables
Picked cell towers - variable to assign an array of picked cells.
Updated on Nov 16, 2023
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.llamalab.automate
Andrew
Dec 21, 2023, 1:49:03 AM12/21/23
to
Alan wrote on Tue, 19 Dec 2023 09:37:30 -0800 :
>> So far, theoretically attacking this problem set, the solution is...
>> 1. You survey the local towers (trivial) and see all neighboring cells
>> 2. You set your phone bands (trivial) to the bands of specific cells
>> So far, theoretically attacking this problem set, the solution is...
>> 1. You survey the local towers (trivial) and see all neighboring cells
>> 2. You set your phone bands (trivial) to the bands of specific cells
> You literally (and quite obviously) have no clue about any of this.
Why haven't you offered any advice if you know so much about how to do it?
Anyways, there is this Dec 30, 2020 video on cell tower & channel locking.
https://youtu.be/BGCq2BrACSg
The video shows the guy connected to one tower, and then connecting to two
other towers in sequence just by locking his channel to their ARFCN & PCI.
For each of the towers, he then tests his download speeds so that he can
choose to manually connect to the fastest tower of those his phone can see.
He first uses a free app called Net Monitor Lite to determine the ARFCN &
PCI of nearby cellular towers which are available for him to connect to.
Then they enter EngineerMode with ""#*3646633#*#*" which can be saved for
reuse in autodialing (eg set the phone to autodial when a key is pressed).
In EngineerMode they click on Channel Lock, they select SIM 1 of two SIMs,
they click Enable Lock, and they enter an available ARFCN & PCI identifier.
The JRD Engineering Mode access code can be different for each smartphone.
https://utilitiesone.com/jrd-engineering-mode-what-it-is-and-how-it-can-enhance-your-smartphone-experience
Samsung uses a different USSD code "*#0011#" to enter Service Mode instead.
https://www.infobae.com/en/2022/03/24/android-what-is-engineer-mode-and-what-are-its-benefits/
What I do is I keep a separate dialer for such things, so that it doesn't
get in the way of my default dialer. Once you get into Samsung Service Mode
you press the three dots (top right) and select Key Input to enter "Q0".
You can also use com.samsung.android.dialer to save as a speedial their
advanced ServiceMode using "*#2683662#" but it's easier to use an app.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=mtk%20engineering%20mode&c=apps
Here are the first 3 free apps that come out of that google play search.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Go.EngModeMtkShortcut
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mtkeng.anubhavraj.mtkengineermode
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.princewellinc.supermtkengineering
There's probably something similar for the iphone owners on this thread.
Dave Royal
Dec 21, 2023, 3:03:11 AM12/21/23
to
On 20 Dec 2023 23:07:41 -0400 Wally J wrote:
>
>In trying to understand everything you said, first I had to look up what
>"mi-fi" means, where T-Mobile says this about the registered trademark:
>
> "Q: What is the difference between hotspot and Mi-Fi?
> A: MiFi is a registered trademark that many people use to refer
> to a hotspot device. Both MiFi devices and hotspot devices
> allow you to connect to the internet on the go by creating
> a secure wireless network for you, your family, or friends."
> <https://www.t-mobile.com/devices/iot/hotspots>
I first came accross 'mifi' when my fellow sailors started installing them
>
>In trying to understand everything you said, first I had to look up what
>"mi-fi" means, where T-Mobile says this about the registered trademark:
>
> "Q: What is the difference between hotspot and Mi-Fi?
> A: MiFi is a registered trademark that many people use to refer
> to a hotspot device. Both MiFi devices and hotspot devices
> allow you to connect to the internet on the go by creating
> a secure wireless network for you, your family, or friends."
> <https://www.t-mobile.com/devices/iot/hotspots>
on their boats - in the early 2010s. Local wifi networks spang up in every
marina. 'mifi', after one of the first devices, was commonly used to refer
to these devices on forums when discussing how to get local Greek or
Turkish SIMs for them. A mifi was a /private/ LAN. The same device in the
home tends now to be called a 'wireless router' in the UK I think.
"Hotspot" apparantly came from T-mobile. From wikipedia:
"The first commercial venture to attempt to create a public local area
access network was a firm founded in Richardson, Texas known as PLANCOM
(Public Local Area Network Communications). The founders of the venture
... dissolved the firm in 1998, while Goode and Jackson created MobileStar
Networks. The firm was one of the first to sign such public access
locations as Starbucks,[35] American Airlines,[36] and Hilton Hotels.[37]
The company was sold to Deutsche Telecom in 2001, who then converted the
name of the firm into "T-Mobile Hotspot". It was then that the term
"hotspot" entered the popular vernacular as a reference to a location
where a publicly accessible wireless LAN is available."
--
(Remove numerics from email address)
Wally J
Dec 21, 2023, 3:24:31 AM12/21/23
to
Dave Royal <da...@dave123royal.com> wrote
> A mifi was a /private/ LAN. The same device in the
> home tends now to be called a 'wireless router' in the UK I think.
>
> "Hotspot" apparantly came from T-mobile. From wikipedia:
That's interesting. Thanks for adding to our combined tribal knowledge.
I'm surprised T-Mobile came up with "hotspot" and it's not trademarked.
The Mi-Fi seems to be trademarked, even as it's probably in common usage.
> A mifi was a /private/ LAN. The same device in the
> home tends now to be called a 'wireless router' in the UK I think.
>
> "Hotspot" apparantly came from T-mobile. From wikipedia:
I'm surprised T-Mobile came up with "hotspot" and it's not trademarked.
The Mi-Fi seems to be trademarked, even as it's probably in common usage.
Chris
Dec 21, 2023, 5:07:54 AM12/21/23
to
Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
>>
>> I doubt it very much. It defeats the whole purpose of a cellular network.
>
>
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>> So I'm pretty sure you _can_ control the tower you connect to, Chris.
>>
>> I doubt it very much. It defeats the whole purpose of a cellular network.
>
>
> So it's definitely possible.
> But we all would likely agree choosing your tower by band is inefficient.
>
> The question is only whether or not we are intelligent enough to figure out
> how to do it more directly - e.g., by blacklisting/whitelisting tower IDs.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/dVQJkL02/bands05.jpg> Tower by supported bands
>
>> Post a video capture of you manually hopping between towers.
>
> Again, I realize you hate that the iPhone is crippled, but on Android we
> can easily set EARFCN so "hopping between towers" is certainly possible.
>
> What we want though is a more direct way, e.g., blacklisting PCI or CellID.
Ah, so despite your assertion that it's possible you've not been able to do
> But we all would likely agree choosing your tower by band is inefficient.
>
> The question is only whether or not we are intelligent enough to figure out
> how to do it more directly - e.g., by blacklisting/whitelisting tower IDs.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/dVQJkL02/bands05.jpg> Tower by supported bands
>
>> Post a video capture of you manually hopping between towers.
>
> Again, I realize you hate that the iPhone is crippled, but on Android we
> can easily set EARFCN so "hopping between towers" is certainly possible.
>
> What we want though is a more direct way, e.g., blacklisting PCI or CellID.
it yet.
>> You've yet to also demonstrate you being to get 5GB of data per tower.
>> Show a screenshot of your billing broken down by tower.
>
> I'm not sure what you're insinuating, as usually you complain whenever
> something is on Android you can't do on iOS (which is a lot of things).
>
> Suffice to say that there are plenty of T-Mobile USA plans that limit the
> amount of hotspotting you can do, and, in fact, they likely limit it on
> purpose because they also want to sell you a mifi device for home Internet.
tower. It isn't.
Any hotspotting limits are artificial and set by the provider. We used to
have that in the UK, but no longer. They were futile and easily
circumvented by fiddling with TTL settings on the device using the hotspot
AP somehow.
It was also commercially dumb as they were limiting their ability to charge
for data access.
> "Q: Can a hotspot replace home internet?
> A: Hotspot devices, mobile hotspots, and their plans were made
> for limited high-speed data usage on the go. These are not intended
> to replace your home internet."
> <https://www.t-mobile.com/devices/iot/hotspots>
>
> If you look at T-Mobile's plans on public resources, you'd see all sorts of
> prices and limitations on hotspotting for both tablets and for cellphones.
> <https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/affordable-data-plans/hotspots>
your default source of internet at home.
> Well, I have never approached even 1GB of hotspot/tethering data myself.
away from work or home. Despite using a "crippled" iphone. lol.
I have lots of mobile data included in 30-day rolling contract so it's
often easier to use mobile data rather than any "free" wifi.
> But it's a worthwhile endeavor to be able to choose the tower at will.
Wally J
Dec 21, 2023, 8:18:06 AM12/21/23
to
Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote
>> What we want though is a more direct way, e.g., blacklisting PCI or CellID.
>
> Ah, so despite your assertion that it's possible you've not been able to do
> it yet.
Hi Chris,
Thanks for all your supportive suggestions and purposefully helpful advice.
Here's where I am at the moment, although I only tested this once so far.
<https://i.postimg.cc/jj0wcy8f/servicemode01.jpg> Samsung Service Mode
There's still a bit of knowledge that I need to absorb to perform the task.
<https://xdaforums.com/t/quick-guide-how-to-enable-and-use-servicemode.3109579/>
<https://xdaforums.com/t/tricktips-mtk-phones-dial-secret-codes.2313812/>
<https://xdaforums.com/t/engineer-mode-code-for-samsung-android.4614917/>
<https://convergeddevices.net/how-to-enter-engineering-mode-in-samsung/>
<https://www.wikihow.com/Put-Your-Android-in-Service-Mode>
<https://xdaforums.com/t/switching-cell-tower.4191443/>
<https://teamandroid.com/samsung-secret-codes/>
<https://technastic.com/samsung-secret-codes/>
etc.
>> Suffice to say that there are plenty of T-Mobile USA plans that limit the
>> amount of hotspotting you can do, and, in fact, they likely limit it on
>> purpose because they also want to sell you a mifi device for home Internet.
>
> I see the confusion now.
I saw the posts from the others so the summary of how to do it is, so far:
1. We knew we could do it with band selection, but, better than that
2. We can use Engineering/Service Mode <https://youtu.be/BGCq2BrACSg>
3. Or we may it with LLamalab automation <https://llamalab.com/automate/>
Dunno which is the easiest to do just yet as I haven't done them all yet.
> You think hotspotting is the same as choosing a tower. It isn't.
I'm pretty sure nobody disagreed with my definition of hotspotting
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/XqUmekUNHFA>
(although it was interesting to find out T-Mobile originated the term)
> Any hotspotting limits are artificial and set by the provider.
Yup. That's the reason for asking the question of switching towers in the
first place; although there is merit also in using only the fast towers.
> We used to have that in the UK, but no longer. They were futile and easily
> circumvented by fiddling with TTL settings on the device using the hotspot
> AP somehow.
> It was also commercially dumb as they were limiting their ability to charge
> for data access.
Luckily, there are 3 suggested ways to manually choose towers on Android.
<https://i.postimg.cc/jj0wcy8f/servicemode01.jpg> Samsung Service Mode
Engineering/Service Mode seems to be the easiest so I'll try that first.
1. Survey the nearby cell towers & write down the ARFCN & PCI
2. Enter Engineering/Service Mode & set the ARFCN & PCI
>> If you look at T-Mobile's plans on public resources, you'd see all sorts of
>> prices and limitations on hotspotting for both tablets and for cellphones.
>> <https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/affordable-data-plans/hotspots>
>
> Correct. An artificial limitation. A hotspot/mifi can easily be used as
> your default source of internet at home.
Agreed. I never disagree with anyone who presents a sensible assessment.
>> Well, I have never approached even 1GB of hotspot/tethering data myself.
>
> I've often used >1GB a day when hotspotting. Usually when doing video calls
> away from work or home. Despite using a "crippled" iphone. lol.
I never disagree with anyone who makes a claim that their phone can do
something that every phone can do, Chris. Nobody said iPhones can't do it.
> I have lots of mobile data included in 30-day rolling contract so it's
> often easier to use mobile data rather than any "free" wifi.
Understood. I have free everything, including Internet where I get mine
from a WISP tower that is about ~10 kilometers away line of sight.
<https://i.postimg.cc/VvqLKQtQ/wifi.jpg> Distance is calculated at 10.4 km
So for me also, there's no reason to seek a different tower other than to
circumvent any 5GB/month/line/tower artificial limits imposed by a carrier.
One issue though, is my "access points" are likely huge compared to yours.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YqTk0q1T/ap.jpg> Cellular repeater & home Wi-Fi APs
>> But it's a worthwhile endeavor to be able to choose the tower at will.
>
> Only for the most idle of minds.
Please keep in mind we almost never fail to do whatever we want to do.
It's the American way (good old Yankee ingenuity) to do whatever we want.
If for no other reason, we can choose the tower with the fastest speeds.
In fact, that's exactly what this guy did <https://youtu.be/BGCq2BrACSg>.
--
On the Internet you can solve difficult problems with the help of others.
>> What we want though is a more direct way, e.g., blacklisting PCI or CellID.
>
> Ah, so despite your assertion that it's possible you've not been able to do
> it yet.
Thanks for all your supportive suggestions and purposefully helpful advice.
Here's where I am at the moment, although I only tested this once so far.
<https://i.postimg.cc/jj0wcy8f/servicemode01.jpg> Samsung Service Mode
There's still a bit of knowledge that I need to absorb to perform the task.
<https://xdaforums.com/t/quick-guide-how-to-enable-and-use-servicemode.3109579/>
<https://xdaforums.com/t/tricktips-mtk-phones-dial-secret-codes.2313812/>
<https://xdaforums.com/t/engineer-mode-code-for-samsung-android.4614917/>
<https://convergeddevices.net/how-to-enter-engineering-mode-in-samsung/>
<https://www.wikihow.com/Put-Your-Android-in-Service-Mode>
<https://xdaforums.com/t/switching-cell-tower.4191443/>
<https://teamandroid.com/samsung-secret-codes/>
<https://technastic.com/samsung-secret-codes/>
etc.
>> Suffice to say that there are plenty of T-Mobile USA plans that limit the
>> amount of hotspotting you can do, and, in fact, they likely limit it on
>> purpose because they also want to sell you a mifi device for home Internet.
>
> I see the confusion now.
1. We knew we could do it with band selection, but, better than that
2. We can use Engineering/Service Mode <https://youtu.be/BGCq2BrACSg>
3. Or we may it with LLamalab automation <https://llamalab.com/automate/>
Dunno which is the easiest to do just yet as I haven't done them all yet.
> You think hotspotting is the same as choosing a tower. It isn't.
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/XqUmekUNHFA>
(although it was interesting to find out T-Mobile originated the term)
> Any hotspotting limits are artificial and set by the provider.
first place; although there is merit also in using only the fast towers.
> We used to have that in the UK, but no longer. They were futile and easily
> circumvented by fiddling with TTL settings on the device using the hotspot
> AP somehow.
> It was also commercially dumb as they were limiting their ability to charge
> for data access.
<https://i.postimg.cc/jj0wcy8f/servicemode01.jpg> Samsung Service Mode
Engineering/Service Mode seems to be the easiest so I'll try that first.
1. Survey the nearby cell towers & write down the ARFCN & PCI
2. Enter Engineering/Service Mode & set the ARFCN & PCI
>> If you look at T-Mobile's plans on public resources, you'd see all sorts of
>> prices and limitations on hotspotting for both tablets and for cellphones.
>> <https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/affordable-data-plans/hotspots>
>
> Correct. An artificial limitation. A hotspot/mifi can easily be used as
> your default source of internet at home.
>> Well, I have never approached even 1GB of hotspot/tethering data myself.
>
> I've often used >1GB a day when hotspotting. Usually when doing video calls
> away from work or home. Despite using a "crippled" iphone. lol.
something that every phone can do, Chris. Nobody said iPhones can't do it.
> I have lots of mobile data included in 30-day rolling contract so it's
> often easier to use mobile data rather than any "free" wifi.
from a WISP tower that is about ~10 kilometers away line of sight.
<https://i.postimg.cc/VvqLKQtQ/wifi.jpg> Distance is calculated at 10.4 km
So for me also, there's no reason to seek a different tower other than to
circumvent any 5GB/month/line/tower artificial limits imposed by a carrier.
One issue though, is my "access points" are likely huge compared to yours.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YqTk0q1T/ap.jpg> Cellular repeater & home Wi-Fi APs
>> But it's a worthwhile endeavor to be able to choose the tower at will.
>
> Only for the most idle of minds.
It's the American way (good old Yankee ingenuity) to do whatever we want.
If for no other reason, we can choose the tower with the fastest speeds.
In fact, that's exactly what this guy did <https://youtu.be/BGCq2BrACSg>.
--
On the Internet you can solve difficult problems with the help of others.
Carlos E.R.
Dec 21, 2023, 3:43:26 PM12/21/23
to
That's interesting and useful information.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Carlos E.R.
Dec 21, 2023, 4:12:25 PM12/21/23
to
On 2023-12-21 07:49, Andrew wrote:
> Alan wrote on Tue, 19 Dec 2023 09:37:30 -0800 :
>
>>> So far, theoretically attacking this problem set, the solution is...
>>> 1. You survey the local towers (trivial) and see all neighboring cells
>>> 2. You set your phone bands (trivial) to the bands of specific cells
>
>> You literally (and quite obviously) have no clue about any of this.
>
> Why haven't you offered any advice if you know so much about how to do it?
Nobody knows how to do it (till you and David posted how). Only one
> Alan wrote on Tue, 19 Dec 2023 09:37:30 -0800 :
>
>>> So far, theoretically attacking this problem set, the solution is...
>>> 1. You survey the local towers (trivial) and see all neighboring cells
>>> 2. You set your phone bands (trivial) to the bands of specific cells
>
>> You literally (and quite obviously) have no clue about any of this.
>
> Why haven't you offered any advice if you know so much about how to do it?
saying that it is easy, but going wrong about it, others telling him
"no, that was is not it", and others waiting and wondering :-)
--
Cheers, Carlos.
notya...@gmail.com
Dec 22, 2023, 7:51:33 AM12/22/23
to
On Thursday 21 December 2023 at 21:12:25 UTC, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-12-21 07:49, Andrew wrote:
> > Alan wrote on Tue, 19 Dec 2023 09:37:30 -0800 :
> >
> >>> So far, theoretically attacking this problem set, the solution is...
> >>> 1. You survey the local towers (trivial) and see all neighboring cells
Using [free] Network Cell Info Lite app'
> On 2023-12-21 07:49, Andrew wrote:
> > Alan wrote on Tue, 19 Dec 2023 09:37:30 -0800 :
> >
> >>> So far, theoretically attacking this problem set, the solution is...
> >>> 1. You survey the local towers (trivial) and see all neighboring cells
> >>> 2. You set your phone bands (trivial) to the bands of specific cells
> >
> >> You literally (and quite obviously) have no clue about any of this.
> >
> > Why haven't you offered any advice if you know so much about how to do it?
> Nobody knows how to do it (till you and David posted how). Only one
> saying that it is easy, but going wrong about it, others telling him
> "no, that was is not it", and others waiting and wondering :-)
> >
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