Moto USB lead

[tim...]

I've just bought a Moto (something or other) and the bleeding thing has come
with a non-standard USB connector (oval rather than trapezoidal)

Does anyone know the name of this connector type.

Can I get replacements in the pound shop :-)

It's right PITA given that I have a cupboard full of standard USB leads
(Type B, Micro and Mini) that I can share between my numerous devices.

(I've even got a supply of Apple ones, should I win the lottery next week)

Pants, utter pants!

[Scott]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 11:16:41 +0100, "tim..." <timsn...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I think you are missing the point that the new style lead is to allow
rapid charging. I can charge my Pixel in about an hour, which to me
is an advantage.

If you prefer slow charging (and some believe it is better for the
battery) you can certainly buy leads with a standard USB at the other
end. I think adaptors are also available. If I can find the one I
think I had, I will happily send it to you.

[Andy Burns]

tim... wrote:

> I've just bought a Moto (something or other) and the bleeding thing has
> come with a non-standard USB connector (oval rather than trapezoidal)
>
> Does anyone know the name of this connector type.

It's USB type C, it's not exactly new, my last couple of phones and
tablets have used them

> Can I get replacements in the pound shop :-)

<https://www.poundland.co.uk/343145-usb-c-sync-and-charge-cable/>

> Pants, utter pants!

Brilliant, since you can put them in either way up, they can supply
power in either direction and can supply much more power than older USB
types.

[tim...]

"Scott" <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f876kgp6vphrfjaeh...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 11:16:41 +0100, "tim..." <timsn...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I've just bought a Moto (something or other) and the bleeding thing has
>>come
>>with a non-standard USB connector (oval rather than trapezoidal)
>>
>>Does anyone know the name of this connector type.
>>
>>Can I get replacements in the pound shop :-)
>>
>>It's right PITA given that I have a cupboard full of standard USB leads
>>(Type B, Micro and Mini) that I can share between my numerous devices.
>>
>>(I've even got a supply of Apple ones, should I win the lottery next week)
>>
>>Pants, utter pants!
>>
> I think you are missing the point that the new style lead is to allow
> rapid charging.

why would the shape of the plug (FTAOD at the phone end) allow that?

> I can charge my Pixel in about an hour, which to me
> is an advantage.

well mine doesn't

It takes about 3-4 for a full charge

[tim...]

"Andy Burns" <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
news:iqglbh...@mid.individual.net...

> tim... wrote:
>
>> I've just bought a Moto (something or other) and the bleeding thing has
>> come with a non-standard USB connector (oval rather than trapezoidal)
>>
>> Does anyone know the name of this connector type.
>
> It's USB type C, it's not exactly new, my last couple of phones and
> tablets have used them

oh ok

>
>> Can I get replacements in the pound shop :-)
>
> <https://www.poundland.co.uk/343145-usb-c-sync-and-charge-cable/>

thanks

>
>> Pants, utter pants!
>
> Brilliant, since you can put them in either way up, they can supply power
> in either direction and can supply much more power than older USB types.

which given that it goes into trickle charge after about 60% is not any use
to me


>
>

[notya...@gmail.com]

There was USB 2B (square), mini USB 2B (trapezoidal) and micro USB 2B (small, flatish, but only one way up).

What you are looking at is almost certainly USB C, which does both ends of the cable and inserts either way up - so you can't get it wrong.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/USB_Type-C_Receptacle_Pinout.svg/438px-USB_Type-C_Receptacle_Pinout.svg.png

[recent] Samsung phones come with a USB C to micro 2B adapter or you can buy one - 21p from Ali Express, although better would be to buy the right cable (USB 2A to USB C), although probably not from the pound shop if you want to use it for anything other than charging.

[tim...]

"notya...@gmail.com" <notya...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3cb48fe8-c570-47ff...@googlegroups.com...

I need it for nothing other than charging

I can get data out of the phone in various ways

I can only charge it through this little hole

[Andy Burns]

tim... wrote:

> Scott wrote:
>
>> I can charge my Pixel in about an hour, which to me
>> is an advantage.
>
> well mine doesn't
> It takes about 3-4 for a full charge

If you bought a charger with USB-PD*, it'd likely cut your charging
time, difficult to tell as Moto don't publish the specs for the
"something or other" model ...


[*] up to 20V @ 3A instead of 5V @ 0.5A, the spec allows for higher but
that's the common maximum for the time being.

[tim...]

"Andy Burns" <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote in message

news:iqgncr...@mid.individual.net...

> tim... wrote:
>
>> Scott wrote:
>>> I can charge my Pixel in about an hour, which to me
>>> is an advantage.
>>
>> well mine doesn't It takes about 3-4 for a full charge
>
> If you bought a charger with USB-PD*, it'd likely cut your charging time,
> difficult to tell as Moto don't publish the specs for the "something or
> other" model ...

I don't have a charger

I just plug it into my (one of 8) USB socket(s) on the wall

[notya...@gmail.com]

Not a rapid charger then. Older ones supply lower current at lower voltage and take longer to charge the phone's battery.

Older phones can't charge faster too.

[Andy Burns]

tim... wrote:

> I don't have a charger
> I just plug it into my (one of 8) USB socket(s) on the wall

That's one of the problems with 13A sockets with USB built-in, they're
generally outdated USB charging, even if you find type-C mains sockets,
they're unlikely to support USB-PD (power delivery) so will be slower
than a "real" charger.

Did your phone come with a charger? If so, try it, you'll see how much
faster it can charge that way ...

[David Higton]

In message <shv76i$f36$1...@dont-email.me>

"tim..." <timsn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Scott" <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:f876kgp6vphrfjaeh...@4ax.com...
>

> > I think you are missing the point that the new style lead is to allow
> > rapid charging.
>
> why would the shape of the plug (FTAOD at the phone end) allow that?

It's USB C. There are extra cores that, when used with a compatible
charger, can supply much more power and thus allow much faster charging.

If you plug it into a non-compatible charger, then it will only charge
slowly.

There's a very important caveat: there are lots of cables out there
that claim to conform to USB C, but don't implement it properly. If
you get one from eBay, you might well find one of these. It has been
known for phones to be damaged by use of a non-conformant cable.

The conclusion is that it's better to buy a USB C cable from a highly
reputable source; the alternative could turn out to be a false economy.

David

[Chris]

On 16/09/2021 12:43, Andy Burns wrote:
> tim... wrote:
>
>> I don't have a charger
>> I just plug it into my (one of 8) USB socket(s) on the wall
>
> That's one of the problems with 13A sockets with USB built-in, they're
> generally outdated USB charging, even if you find type-C mains sockets,
> they're unlikely to support USB-PD (power delivery) so will be slower
> than a "real" charger.

Those USB sockets aren't typically fused and I imagine the extra draw
required by USB-PD would be deemed unsafe with current designs of USB
mains sockets.

[Scott]

I got one to use in the car for emergencies but I made sure it came
from a reputable source. Otherwise, I use the supplied charger and
cable.

[Scott]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:52:17 +0100, Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 16/09/2021 12:43, Andy Burns wrote:
>> tim... wrote:
>>
>>> I don't have a charger
>>> I just plug it into my (one of 8) USB socket(s) on the wall
>>
>> That's one of the problems with 13A sockets with USB built-in, they're
>> generally outdated USB charging, even if you find type-C mains sockets,
>> they're unlikely to support USB-PD (power delivery) so will be slower
>> than a "real" charger.
>
>Those USB sockets aren't typically fused and I imagine the extra draw
>required by USB-PD would be deemed unsafe with current designs of USB
>mains sockets.

Does this 'extra draw' take place? I thought the phone negotiated
with the charger to determine the charging rate and would only charge
at a rate compatible with the charger.

[Tweed]

Standard 5V usb chargers should be fine, but will be slow. USB-C achieves
faster charging by a process of negotiation between the device and the
charger. The charger then increases its voltage to push more current into
the device. You can’t ordinarily push more current without more volts.

There’s lots of dodgy chargers out there and there have been cases of the
charger putting out more volts than the device requests - I suppose a
failure to observe the negotiation rules.

[Chris]

Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:52:17 +0100, Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 16/09/2021 12:43, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> tim... wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't have a charger
>>>> I just plug it into my (one of 8) USB socket(s) on the wall
>>>
>>> That's one of the problems with 13A sockets with USB built-in, they're
>>> generally outdated USB charging, even if you find type-C mains sockets,
>>> they're unlikely to support USB-PD (power delivery) so will be slower
>>> than a "real" charger.
>>
>> Those USB sockets aren't typically fused and I imagine the extra draw
>> required by USB-PD would be deemed unsafe with current designs of USB
>> mains sockets.
>
> Does this 'extra draw' take place? I thought the phone negotiated
> with the charger to determine the charging rate and would only charge
> at a rate compatible with the charger.

Yes it does. What I meant is the fast charge capability available with
certain charges may not be possible in those mains sockets that come with
additional USB charging ports.

[Scott]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 17:31:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

My understanding of Tweed's post is that the 'negotiation' would then
fail and fast charging would not take place.

[Chris Green]

Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> tim... wrote:
>
> > I don't have a charger
> > I just plug it into my (one of 8) USB socket(s) on the wall
>
> That's one of the problems with 13A sockets with USB built-in, they're
> generally outdated USB charging, even if you find type-C mains sockets,
> they're unlikely to support USB-PD (power delivery) so will be slower
> than a "real" charger.
>

The issue with USB-C is that it has about a zillion different
'standards' so a charger that works with Samsung quite likely won't
give fast cgarging with Motorola. It's far too complex to actually
work except with the charger that came with your phone.

--
Chris Green
·

[Andy Burns]

Chris Green wrote:

> The issue with USB-C is that it has about a zillion different
> 'standards' so a charger that works with Samsung quite likely won't
> give fast cgarging with Motorola. It's far too complex to actually
> work except with the charger that came with your phone.

I have two type-C tablets, two phones, a laptop, a dock, an M.2
enclosure, a mouse, various chargers including a car one and they all
work with each other ... I must be lucky.

[David Higton]

In message <5637kgh3009d74nhe...@4ax.com>

Correct. Well, either fail, or not take place at all. Same result.

David

[Martin Brown]

On 16/09/2021 20:15, Andy Burns wrote:
> Chris Green wrote:
>
>> The issue with USB-C is that it has about a zillion different
>> 'standards' so a charger that works with Samsung quite likely won't
>> give fast cgarging with Motorola.  It's far too complex to actually
>> work except with the charger that came with your phone.

In principle it ought to work and with the connector either way up. In
practice it seems to be a bit pot luck which chargers will fast charge
anything other than the device that they originally came with.

> I have two type-C tablets, two phones, a laptop, a dock, an M.2
> enclosure, a mouse, various chargers including a car one and they all
> work with each other ... I must be lucky.

How many of them negotiate for a fast charge though?

If they are all from the same maker then you stand a good chance of
their chargers being fully interoperable. If not then all bets are off.
They will work as a basic 1A or 2A USB charger at 5v but nothing else.

My Samsung tablet no longer fast charges with its *own* charger :(

It did recognise it for the first year or so but now it just gives a
slow charging warning. They are somewhat tetchy across brands. YMMV

New kit tends to come with chargers and leads that support rapid
charging (which may well be bad for the battery lifetime and capacity).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Andy Burns]

Martin Brown wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> I have two type-C tablets, two phones, a laptop, a dock, an M.2
>> enclosure, a mouse, various chargers including a car one and they all
>> work with each other ... I must be lucky.
>
> How many of them negotiate for a fast charge though?

The phones all seem happy with each other's chargers, the laptop
chargers and the 3rd party multi-way chargers I've bought.

I suspect the Nokia charger was not rapid to start with, as the tablet
was only a USB2 device with a type-C socket.

The laptop will only charge from the 60W charger it came with, or the
60W I bought for the car, but that's not surprising ... not much point
trying to charge a laptop at 5 or 10W

> If they are all from the same maker then you stand a good chance of
> their chargers being fully interoperable. If not then all bets are off.
> They will work as a basic 1A or 2A USB charger at 5v but nothing else.

mish-mash of google, nokia, samsung, huawei, lenovo, logitech, ugreen,
poweradd.

[Scott]

Like Brexit then :-)

[Scott]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 22:33:57 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 16/09/2021 20:15, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Chris Green wrote:
>>
>>> The issue with USB-C is that it has about a zillion different
>>> 'standards' so a charger that works with Samsung quite likely won't
>>> give fast cgarging with Motorola.  It's far too complex to actually
>>> work except with the charger that came with your phone.
>
>In principle it ought to work and with the connector either way up. In
>practice it seems to be a bit pot luck which chargers will fast charge
>anything other than the device that they originally came with.
>
>> I have two type-C tablets, two phones, a laptop, a dock, an M.2
>> enclosure, a mouse, various chargers including a car one and they all
>> work with each other ... I must be lucky.
>
>How many of them negotiate for a fast charge though?
>
>If they are all from the same maker then you stand a good chance of
>their chargers being fully interoperable. If not then all bets are off.
>They will work as a basic 1A or 2A USB charger at 5v but nothing else.

I thought they all came from the same factory in China but maybe I am
a cynic :-)

>
>My Samsung tablet no longer fast charges with its *own* charger :(
>
>It did recognise it for the first year or so but now it just gives a
>slow charging warning. They are somewhat tetchy across brands. YMMV

I had similar with my Pixel. It would not charge at all using the
fast charger. I gave it a couple of charges with a slow charger and
after that it started working again with the fast charger. Explain
that! (I think it may have been because if the battery is excessively
discharged fast charging is disabled.)

[Scott]

Interesting. I assumed that a slow charger would take similar time to
my previous phone but the new phone is much faster even with a slow
charger (though not as fast as the fast charger).

[Theo]

Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> The laptop will only charge from the 60W charger it came with, or the
> 60W I bought for the car, but that's not surprising ... not much point
> trying to charge a laptop at 5 or 10W

Laptops typically have multi-cell batteries, so need the 12v or 20v supplied
by the fast charging modes. Regular chargers are only 5v and so the laptop
would need extra boost circuitry to generate the charging voltage. They
could do that, but as you say not a lot of point given you'd only get 10W
out of it. Phones are usually only single cell (3.6v) so are fine to charge
from a 5v supply.

Theo

[Andy Burns]

Scott wrote:

> I had similar with my Pixel. It would not charge at all using the
> fast charger. I gave it a couple of charges with a slow charger and
> after that it started working again with the fast charger. Explain
> that!

I had similar, in fact it would charge slow with the lead in one way up,
fast the other way up ... picking two years worth of pocket fluff out of
the socket with a wooden cocktail stick and a bit of blowing sorted it
out ...

[Chris]

I'm talking about these things wrt USB-PD. There's no way they will ever
deliver 240W for fast charging via the USB socket alone.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-13a-2-gang-sp-switched-socket-4-2a-2-outlet-type-a-c-usb-charger-white/728fv

[Scott]

On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 11:32:44 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>

I think that is what we are all telling you :-)

You need a compatible charger before fast charging can take place.

[Martin Brown]

How did you buy one without the right charging lead or charger?
Even the dodgiest second hand places usually provide one.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Scott]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 11:41:51 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
[snip]
>
>Brilliant, since you can put them in either way up, they can supply
>power in either direction and can supply much more power than older USB
>types.
>
I have gone for an unorthdox approach. I installed a twin Schuko
socket in the utility room downrated to 1 amp. I have acquired a
selection of chargers (OEM) so I can charge there using the
appropriate charger. Same for the toothbrush.

[Tweed]

Just be careful with the Schuko socket and toothbrush/shaver plugs. Some of
the latter use slightly larger diameter pins, part sleeved. I stuck my UK
shaver plug into a Dutch CenterParcs bathroom Schuko and it wouldn’t come
out again. The shutter mechanism captured it at the boundary of the metal
pin and the sleeve. I embarrassingly had to call out the site electrician
to get it released.

[Scott]

Thanks for that. I knew about the difference between UK and Europlug.
I wrote to Braun Oral B pointing out this was hardly a travel
toothbrush if it could not be taken out of the UK and would they
please supply me with a 'continental' adapter, which they did.

[Pamela]

On 11:16 16 Sep 2021, tim... said:

> I've just bought a Moto (something or other) and the bleeding thing
> has come with a non-standard USB connector (oval rather than
> trapezoidal)
>
> Does anyone know the name of this connector type.
>
> Can I get replacements in the pound shop :-)
>
> It's right PITA given that I have a cupboard full of standard USB
> leads (Type B, Micro and Mini) that I can share between my numerous
> devices.
>
> (I've even got a supply of Apple ones, should I win the lottery next
> week)
>
> Pants, utter pants!

I love the way you pretend you don't know or can't find the model of
the phone you just bought.

Is this a troll to get everyone to tell you it's USB-C? After all,
it's only been around for a mere 16 years.

[Pamela]

Any USB-C charger and lead will charge a USB-C phone.

Qualcomm's fast charging system (and all the manufacturer derivatives)
is a propietary extension to the USB-C spec.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_Charge

[tim...]

"notya...@gmail.com" <notya...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:a954567a-8d79-478a...@googlegroups.com...

> On Thursday, 16 September 2021 at 11:44:36 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
>> "Scott" <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:f876kgp6vphrfjaeh...@4ax.com...
>> > On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 11:16:41 +0100, "tim..." <timsn...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >

>> >>I've just bought a Moto (something or other) and the bleeding thing has
>> >>come
>> >>with a non-standard USB connector (oval rather than trapezoidal)
>> >>
>> >>Does anyone know the name of this connector type.
>> >>
>> >>Can I get replacements in the pound shop :-)
>> >>
>> >>It's right PITA given that I have a cupboard full of standard USB leads
>> >>(Type B, Micro and Mini) that I can share between my numerous devices.
>> >>
>> >>(I've even got a supply of Apple ones, should I win the lottery next
>> >>week)
>> >>
>> >>Pants, utter pants!
>> >>

>> > I think you are missing the point that the new style lead is to allow
>> > rapid charging.
>> why would the shape of the plug (FTAOD at the phone end) allow that?
>> > I can charge my Pixel in about an hour, which to me
>> > is an advantage.
>> well mine doesn't
>>
>> It takes about 3-4 for a full charge
>
> Not a rapid charger then. Older ones supply lower current at lower
> voltage and take longer to charge the phone's battery.

I told you already

I don't have a "charger"

I plug it directly into the socket on my wall (Every house should have one
or two, or in my case, 8)

[tim...]

"Scott" <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message

news:hdm8kgh5t2lpgh4as...@4ax.com...

Mine does that annoying - 80% charge in about 60 minutes and then trickle
charges up to 100% taking about 30 minutes to get from 98% to 100%.

FTAOD, it's the phone controlling that, not the charger (that I don't have)

[tim...]

"Andy Burns" <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
news:iqgovo...@mid.individual.net...

> tim... wrote:
>
>> I don't have a charger

>> I just plug it into my (one of 8) USB socket(s) on the wall
>
> That's one of the problems with 13A sockets with USB built-in, they're
> generally outdated USB charging, even if you find type-C mains sockets,
> they're unlikely to support USB-PD (power delivery) so will be slower than
> a "real" charger.
>

> Did your phone come with a charger? If so, try it, you'll see how much
> faster it can charge that way ...

I honestly can't remember.

I've a pile of them in my "travel" box ready to take way with me when I
might need to charge up away from home.

But I can't recollect which one came with which device.

[tim...]

"David Higton" <da...@davehigton.me.uk> wrote in message
news:8e01e16c59.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM...
> In message <shv76i$f36$1...@dont-email.me>

> "tim..." <timsn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Scott" <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:f876kgp6vphrfjaeh...@4ax.com...
>>

>> > I think you are missing the point that the new style lead is to allow
>> > rapid charging.
>>
>> why would the shape of the plug (FTAOD at the phone end) allow that?
>

> It's USB C. There are extra cores that, when used with a compatible
> charger, can supply much more power and thus allow much faster charging.
>
> If you plug it into a non-compatible charger, then it will only charge
> slowly.
>
> There's a very important caveat: there are lots of cables out there
> that claim to conform to USB C, but don't implement it properly. If
> you get one from eBay, you might well find one of these. It has been
> known for phones to be damaged by use of a non-conformant cable.
>
> The conclusion is that it's better to buy a USB C cable from a highly
> reputable source; the alternative could turn out to be a false economy.

In what sense?

the price difference can be huge

typically up to 25 pounds for the branded item, against a quid for the
generic

There's no way that merely more "efficient" charging is, in my life, worth
that price differential.

Leaving the phone on charge for 4 hours usually costs me nothing except
having to plan ahead.

[tim...]

"Martin Brown" <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in message
news:si30f4$11qd$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

I didn't

It came with a lead

but when travelling I am apt to lose such things (especially as I now have 4
different ones to look after)

so I like to have a spare available

[tim...]

"Pamela" <pamela.priv...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:XnsADB2BDF...@144.76.35.252...

> On 11:16 16 Sep 2021, tim... said:
>
>> I've just bought a Moto (something or other) and the bleeding thing
>> has come with a non-standard USB connector (oval rather than
>> trapezoidal)
>>
>> Does anyone know the name of this connector type.
>>
>> Can I get replacements in the pound shop :-)
>>
>> It's right PITA given that I have a cupboard full of standard USB
>> leads (Type B, Micro and Mini) that I can share between my numerous
>> devices.
>>
>> (I've even got a supply of Apple ones, should I win the lottery next
>> week)
>>
>> Pants, utter pants!
>
> I love the way you pretend you don't know or can't find the model of
> the phone you just bought.

well I've discarded the box, filed away the receipt

it doesn't have the model number on the outside of the phone

and ICBA to look at the phone settings to find out as I didn't think it was
important.

>
> Is this a troll to get everyone to tell you it's USB-C? After all,
> it's only been around for a mere 16 years.

Has it?

None of my previous devices has come with it

I have about 6 devices all with micro connectors (one with mini, one with a
bespoke connector and one lightening)