Another phone problem!

[Scott]

Everyone I speak to on my mobile (Pixel 5) seems to complain about an
echo on the 'line'. There is no echo at my end. I have tried
switching between Wi-Fi calling and 5G. I have tried different
locations. I have asked at the Vodafone shop.

What puzzles me is how my phone could cause an echo at the other end
that does not affect me. Initially I assumed it must be a network
problem (maybe related to my property or my area) but it occurs
elsewhere too.

Any ideas?

[Tweed]

Can you plug in headphones to make the call? I’m not suggesting that as a
permanent solution, but it would isolate any feedback happening within the
phone.

[Scott]

Good thinking, but I don't have phone headphones and it doesn't have a
standard headphone socket.

[Tweed]

Ah so not just Apple that commit that sin :)

Based on the last umpteen months of Teams calls, echo is caused when there
is inadequate noise cancellation between earphone and microphone.

Another test would be to turn the earphone volume right down, speak, turn
it back up and ask the person at the other end if that made any difference.

[Andy Burns]

Scott wrote:

> I don't have phone headphones and it doesn't have a
> standard headphone socket.

Didn't it come with a USB to 3.5mm jack dongle?

[Tweed]

I have seen it written that some phone cases cause this issue, presumably
by some sort of mechanical feedback. If you have your phone in a case try
it without.

[Scott]

On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 13:46:34 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

No. It was USB-C to standard USB.

[Scott]

On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 13:10:37 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

<usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 11:44:32 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>> <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Everyone I speak to on my mobile (Pixel 5) seems to complain about an
>>>>> echo on the 'line'. There is no echo at my end. I have tried
>>>>> switching between Wi-Fi calling and 5G. I have tried different
>>>>> locations. I have asked at the Vodafone shop.
>>>>>
>>>>> What puzzles me is how my phone could cause an echo at the other end
>>>>> that does not affect me. Initially I assumed it must be a network
>>>>> problem (maybe related to my property or my area) but it occurs
>>>>> elsewhere too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>

>>>> Can you plug in headphones to make the call? I?m not suggesting that as a

>>>> permanent solution, but it would isolate any feedback happening within the
>>>> phone.
>>>
>>> Good thinking, but I don't have phone headphones and it doesn't have a
>>> standard headphone socket.
>>>
>> Ah so not just Apple that commit that sin :)
>>
>> Based on the last umpteen months of Teams calls, echo is caused when there
>> is inadequate noise cancellation between earphone and microphone.
>>
>> Another test would be to turn the earphone volume right down, speak, turn
>> it back up and ask the person at the other end if that made any difference.
>>
>I have seen it written that some phone cases cause this issue, presumably
>by some sort of mechanical feedback. If you have your phone in a case try
>it without.

Do you think simply closing the case while making a call could be the
cause of the problem?

[Tweed]

Possibly. I’d experiment without a case as the first step and then work
back.

[Scott]

On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 15:28:27 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

I have make one mobile and one landline call and both report that the
echo seems much the same. I am puzzled how the incoming sound to be
picked up by the microphone since this would appear to be a design
fault.

[Tweed]

Have you tried it with the earpiece volume turned right down?

[Scott]

On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 16:41:42 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

>>> Possibly. I?d experiment without a case as the first step and then work

>>> back.
>>
>> I have make one mobile and one landline call and both report that the
>> echo seems much the same. I am puzzled how the incoming sound to be
>> picked up by the microphone since this would appear to be a design
>> fault.
>>
>Have you tried it with the earpiece volume turned right down?

No, but then of course I would not be able to hear the other person. I
suppose the logical approach would be to turn off the volume
altogether then phone myself from the landline and see if there is an
echo. That can be tomorrow's entertainment.

[Tweed]

Ring the other person, tell them what you are about to do, turn the volume
down, carry on speaking, then turn the volume back up.

[Scott]

On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 17:06:19 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Will do, thanks.

[Scott]

On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 17:06:19 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]

>>
>Ring the other person, tell them what you are about to do, turn the volume
>down, carry on speaking, then turn the volume back up.

This is completed. She says the echo almost disappeared when I
'muted' the incoming sound. Interestingly, the sound remained feint
when I turned it off and I am told the echo remained feint as well.

It seems it is indeed acoustic feedback (not related to the case).
Where do I go from here? Is it a hardware fault under warranty, a
software issue capable of correction or what the car manufacturers
used to call a 'characteristic'? Sending it back would be a massive
inconvenience.

[Tweed]

Is this the same phone that couldn’t receive signal when all around you
could? (I forget the details of the thread now). If it is then I’d
seriously consider another type of phone.

Does the phone offer you any form of software update? If yes, then I’d
exhaust that possibility first.

I’m sure this is going to bring the weight of Apple haters upon my head,
but my iPhone SE works very well. You can get one without a contract for
£390 and there’s a pair of Apple shops in Glasgow.

[Chris Green]

Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I’m sure this is going to bring the weight of Apple haters upon my head,
> but my iPhone SE works very well. You can get one without a contract for
> £390 and there’s a pair of Apple shops in Glasgow.
>

How is it that £390 is now a 'reasonable' price for a phone? It's
crazy IMHO, there's no way I'm going to spend that much on a phone. I
thought I was going a bit OTT spending a bit over £100 on mine (an
Umidigi Bison, direct from China) as I've not spent anything like that
much before.

--
Chris Green
·

[Tweed]

Everyone has their own value judgements. Yours obviously differ. Quite a
lot of people have a different view, see

https://www.statista.com/statistics/262179/market-share-held-by-mobile-operating-systems-in-the-united-kingdom/

Almost half the phones in the UK are iPhones.

The OP’s Pixel 5 is around £600 sim free. That’s not made by Apple.

[Chris Green]

Yes, I know, they're all silly prices! :-)

My daughter's phone is up in that sort of territory too. I just don't
see the attraction in that I doubt if I could tell the difference in
'ease of use' or 'clever facilities' between her phone and mine.

... but I also don't really understand why people spend so much on
cars etc. Our current workhorse car is a 2009 Citroen C5 that cost
around £3000 three or four years ago and will probably last us several
more years.

I do have a tractor that cost £10000 though! :-) It is a bit more
substantial than a 'phone, feels a bit more worth it!

I'm definitely not a luddite though, I spent my working life as a
Software Engineer and my house is full of Raspberry Pis and such.

--
Chris Green
·

[Woody]

That link puzzles me as it says 49.98% of phones in the UK use iOS
closely followed by Apple on 49.45%.

I wonder what OS the other 0.53% of Apple phones use?

[Tweed]

That bit had me baffled as well.

[Scott]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:52:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>

>Is this the same phone that couldn’t receive signal when all around you
>could? (I forget the details of the thread now). If it is then I’d
>seriously consider another type of phone.

Well remembered, but I think that was my Pixel 3a before it was
stolen. At least it did not suffer from acoustic feedback.

>
>Does the phone offer you any form of software update? If yes, then I’d
>exhaust that possibility first.

Every month. I have just installed Android 12 but this has not
improved the situation. I install every update irrespective of the
app it is updating.

>
>I’m sure this is going to bring the weight of Apple haters upon my head,
>but my iPhone SE works very well. You can get one without a contract for
>£390 and there’s a pair of Apple shops in Glasgow.

I have only had the Pixel 5 for a few months so on environmental
grounds alone I have an aversion to replacing it. Is the phenomenon
you mention (acoustic feedback) likely to be a hardware or a software
issue - and likely to be a warranty issue?

[Tweed]

It’s hard to say. A properly designed system should have the necessary
voice cancellation software. Mobile phones feed back a bit of your voice
back into the earpiece, it’s called side tone. It’s to stop you shouting,
as people tend to moderate their voice when they hear it back. Without
trying to sound rude, are you hard of hearing and consequently have the
speaker volume wound up high? Is it a problem when run hands free, ie
speaker phone?

[Scott]

On Tue, 2 Nov 2021 13:08:32 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

<usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:52:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>> <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>

>>> Is this the same phone that couldn?t receive signal when all around you
>>> could? (I forget the details of the thread now). If it is then I?d

>>> seriously consider another type of phone.
>>
>> Well remembered, but I think that was my Pixel 3a before it was
>> stolen. At least it did not suffer from acoustic feedback.
>>>

>>> Does the phone offer you any form of software update? If yes, then I?d

>>> exhaust that possibility first.
>>
>> Every month. I have just installed Android 12 but this has not
>> improved the situation. I install every update irrespective of the
>> app it is updating.
>>>

>>> I?m sure this is going to bring the weight of Apple haters upon my head,

>>> but my iPhone SE works very well. You can get one without a contract for

>>> £390 and there?s a pair of Apple shops in Glasgow.

>>
>> I have only had the Pixel 5 for a few months so on environmental
>> grounds alone I have an aversion to replacing it. Is the phenomenon
>> you mention (acoustic feedback) likely to be a hardware or a software
>> issue - and likely to be a warranty issue?
>>
>It’s hard to say. A properly designed system should have the necessary
>voice cancellation software. Mobile phones feed back a bit of your voice
>back into the earpiece, it’s called side tone. It’s to stop you shouting,
>as people tend to moderate their voice when they hear it back. Without
>trying to sound rude, are you hard of hearing and consequently have the
>speaker volume wound up high? Is it a problem when run hands free, ie
>speaker phone?

Thanks for your help. I have just carried out more live testing and
speaker mode eliminates the problem. It appears it is accoustic
feedback, as you suggested.

No hearing problem on my part. In fact I use the non-speaker mode to
allow me to keep the volume down with the phone close to my ear.
Surely if the phone is pressed against my ear it should not be
possible for the incoming sound to reach the microphone? The fact
that it works better on speaker mode is counterintuitive. It's hard
to believe it is a design fault or others would have noticed.

[Andy Burns]

Scott wrote:

> I have just carried out more live testing and
> speaker mode eliminates the problem. It appears it is accoustic
> feedback, as you suggested.

<https://support.google.com/pixelphone/thread/78393240/need-a-fix-for-echo-during-calls?hl=en>

no fix though ...

[Chris Green]

Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
> No hearing problem on my part. In fact I use the non-speaker mode to
> allow me to keep the volume down with the phone close to my ear.
> Surely if the phone is pressed against my ear it should not be
> possible for the incoming sound to reach the microphone? The fact
> that it works better on speaker mode is counterintuitive. It's hard
> to believe it is a design fault or others would have noticed.

This may be a very silly question, but still....

Are you absolutely sure that you have speaker and non-speaker modes
the right way round? It's not always clear whether the speaker
symbol being lit up (or whatever indicator is used) means that
speaker mode is on or off.

In my experience (as you also would seem to expect) using speaker mode
makes sound quality much worse in general.

--
Chris Green
·

[Tweed]

It must either be a design fault or a software fault. I can’t imagine it is
a construction fault, as there’s not much scope for assembling a phone
incorrectly.

Speakerphone mode won’t add side tone.

If a firmware update won’t cure it I can only suggest getting a different
type of phone, or learn to live with the problem.

[Scott]

On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 11:59:32 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

>>> It?s hard to say. A properly designed system should have the necessary

>>> voice cancellation software. Mobile phones feed back a bit of your voice

>>> back into the earpiece, it?s called side tone. It?s to stop you shouting,

>>> as people tend to moderate their voice when they hear it back. Without
>>> trying to sound rude, are you hard of hearing and consequently have the
>>> speaker volume wound up high? Is it a problem when run hands free, ie
>>> speaker phone?
>>
>> Thanks for your help. I have just carried out more live testing and
>> speaker mode eliminates the problem. It appears it is accoustic
>> feedback, as you suggested.
>>
>> No hearing problem on my part. In fact I use the non-speaker mode to
>> allow me to keep the volume down with the phone close to my ear.
>> Surely if the phone is pressed against my ear it should not be
>> possible for the incoming sound to reach the microphone? The fact
>> that it works better on speaker mode is counterintuitive. It's hard
>> to believe it is a design fault or others would have noticed.
>>
>
>It must either be a design fault or a software fault. I can’t imagine it is
>a construction fault, as there’s not much scope for assembling a phone
>incorrectly.
>
>Speakerphone mode won’t add side tone.
>
>If a firmware update won’t cure it I can only suggest getting a different
>type of phone, or learn to live with the problem.

What about a warranty claim?

[Tweed]

Well I suppose that might work. You might get your money back if you’ve not
had it too long.