App to show connected cell tower

[Pamela]

Is there an Android app which correctly shows the cell tower I'm
connected to?

With the phone not being used, Opensignal and Network Cell Info display a
map with a line to a cell tower but each shows a connection to different
tower.

Do these apps simply estimate the best cell tower or are they be
able to accurately identify which cell tower I am connected to?

Which is the best app for this? I tried the following without much
success.


Opensignal
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.staircase3.opensignal

Network Cell Info Lite (M2Catalyst)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wilysis.cellinfolite

O2 Cellmapper
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cellmapper.net.cellmapper

[notya...@gmail.com]

Yes - Network Cell Info [Lite].
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wilysis.cellinfolite&hl=en_GB&gl=US
even the free version is pretty impressive.

[Woody]

IIRC in the early days VF showed the name of the cell site you were on
but that ceased decades ago. I have a feeling the UK systems, unlike the
USA, do not radiate their identity to 'normal' users. Even if they did
it would likely be just the site number and you would have no way of
finding out the location of that site number.

[Peter Johnson]

On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 15:33:20 +0000, Woody <harro...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>On Fri 19/11/2021 13:36, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, 19 November 2021 at 00:12:56 UTC, Pamela wrote:
>>> Is there an Android app which correctly shows the cell tower I'm
>>> connected to?
>>>
>>> With the phone not being used, Opensignal and Network Cell Info display a

My first mobile, a Nokia 1610 I think, had a setting that showed the
connected cell ID on the home screen. Anyone I showed it to thought it
was a wierd thing to do, couldn't see the point of it.

[Pamela]

In my tests that app, Network Cell Info Lite, does not always
agree with Opensignal. Perhaps failure of the tower to radiate an ID
explains it.

Would a connected call have a higher priority and get provided with
the tower ID?

Is there an Android app which logs the cell towers an unused phone has
been connected to that day, so I could see which tower I'm most likely
to be using?

[Tweed]

Masts these days radiate more than one identifier. When trying to find
which one was not working correctly round here I discovered that the
identifier varied with both frequency band and direction of radiation.

[Pamela]

What app did you use for that?

[Tweed]

No app I’m afraid. You can put an iPhone into a diagnostic mode that spews
forth all sorts of information about the radio link.

[Andy Burns]

Pamela wrote:

> Is there an Android app which correctly shows the cell tower I'm
> connected to?

I use Netmonitor by Parizene

[David Woolley]

On 19/11/2021 19:50, Tweed wrote:
> No app I’m afraid. You can put an iPhone into a diagnostic mode that spews
> forth all sorts of information about the radio link.

I think similar exists on all smart phones, and maybe some not so smart
ones.

On a Samsung J5 (2017) it is *#0011#. On a Galaxy Y, it is *#*#4636#*#*

[Andy Burns]

David Woolley wrote:

> I think similar exists on all smart phones, and maybe some not so smart ones.
>
> On a Samsung J5 (2017) it is *#0011#.  On a Galaxy Y, it is *#*#4636#*#*

yes, easier to remember as *#*# INFO #*#* which has existed on every android
phone I've had since 2010

[Andy Burns]

The one I mentioned does

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.parizene.netmonitor>

It has started using adverts, which I suppose is the price of free, but I note
from the comment section some users are saying it only installs a 3 day eval and
then wants £8/year, it's not tried that trick on me ... maybe long-term users
get away without having to pay?

[Pamela]

On 11:12 20 Nov 2021, Andy Burns said:
> Pamela wrote:
>>
>>
>> Is there an Android app which logs the cell towers an unused phone
>> has been connected to that day, so I could see which tower I'm most
>> likely to be using?
>
> The one I mentioned does
>
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?
> id=com.parizene.netmonitor>
>
> It has started using adverts, which I suppose is the price of free,
> but I note from the comment section some users are saying it only

> installs a 3 day eval and then wants Ł8/year, it's not tried that

> trick on me ... maybe long-term users get away without having to
> pay?

As Netmonitor was being installed, I saw a a half-greyed out "x" on
the top right of that screen which avoids the need to proceed with the
trial offer.

However a popup during installation mentions approximate: "Get
approximated location & address of cell towers based on geolocation
services".

When using the map in that app, it initially says "Location of cells
is not accurate, there is no such public data ..." and then suggests
importing some external tower data. There are independent databases
of cell tower locations available ... but all this is getting rather
complicated and still may not be accurate.

By contrast, the OpenSignal app has a screen showing a "Cell Towers
List" and picks out one that it says is connected. In view of all the
above, I don't know how true that is.

[Pamela]

Looking through the data, and I'm not familiar with it, the most useful
thing seemed to be this:

"Mobile location info (deprecated): LAC = xxxx, CID = xxxx"

Converting that hex CID to decimal provides a number which matches one in
the Opensignal app's list of cell tower IDs. Annoyingly, it's not one
which the OpenSignal apps claims is connected.

I am not sure exactly what is deprecated in that info but there doesn't
seem to be agreement between apps.

After all this, I'm no wiser about which cell tower I am connected to.

[Andy Burns]

Pamela wrote:

> When using the map in that app, it initially says "Location of cells
> is not accurate, there is no such public data ..." and then suggests
> importing some external tower data.

For actual masts, mine appears accurate locally to the ones I know exist, it
does shows what must be various femtocells in the village, which obviously I
can't judge the accuracy of ...

[Chris Green]

Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Pamela wrote:
>
> > Is there an Android app which logs the cell towers an unused phone has
> > been connected to that day, so I could see which tower I'm most likely
> > to be using?
>
> The one I mentioned does
>
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.parizene.netmonitor>
>
> It has started using adverts, which I suppose is the price of free

Only in the stupidly expensive Android world.

--
Chris Green
·

[David Woolley]

On 20/11/2021 11:47, Pamela wrote:
> Converting that hex CID to decimal provides a number which matches one in
> the Opensignal app's list of cell tower IDs.

CID (or rather the combination of MCC (country), MNC (network), LAC
(area), and CID defines a cell. A tower may serve multiple CIDs within
an MCC/MNC, although it should only serve one LAC within an MCC/MNC. It
could serve multiple MNCs.

Although, in simple cases, a cell could be centred on a tower, often
directional antennas are used and the tower is on the edge of the cell.
As the network does not know that actual location of the mobile, one
may, especially if the network is busy, get connected to a cell which
isn't the official one for your location, even though the tower may be
the same.

I presume there are commercial or security reasons why the mappings
between MCC/MNC/LAC/CID and tower is not made public, but I think most
of the apps are relying on surveying the received identities, rather
than definitive documentation.

If you want to work out the towers in your case, you probably need to
get close to them, and confirm that you are getting the same identity as
in your normal location, but a very strong signal.

[Woody]

The only problem of getting up close is that the signals will fly over
your head and your phone as a result will register with a different and
more distant site.

The ideal distance from a street pole is about 75m so that the down-tilt
of the radiation just about hits you at peak.

[Andy Burnelli]

I have been using Cellular-Z by JerseyHo for years to get the cell ID.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=make.more.r2d2.cellular_z

It will give you everything you could possibly want, even if your tower
isn't in any database anywhere (like if it's a microcell, for example).

Runner ups which report tower IDs are LTE Discovery by Simply Advanced
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.simplyadvanced.ltediscovery

And IMNOS Mobile Trace https://imnos-mt.com/ or Signal Spy by Novvia
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.novvia.fispy

[David Woolley]

On 20/11/2021 23:46, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> t will give you everything you could possibly want, even if your tower
> isn't in any database anywhere (like if it's a microcell, for example).

I think the OP would want a latitude and longitude. Cell base stations
don't transmit those, so the only way of finding them is by consulting a
database!

[notya...@gmail.com]

Ditto - shows the connected mast and several others I know are physically there. Works on different networks too.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 00:17:06 +0000, David Woolley wrote:

> On 20/11/2021 23:46, Andy Burnelli wrote:

>> It will give you everything you could possibly want, even if your tower

>> isn't in any database anywhere (like if it's a microcell, for example).
>
> I think the OP would want a latitude and longitude. Cell base stations
> don't transmit those, so the only way of finding them is by consulting a
> database!

Au contraire mon frere, :)

I can tell you've never used any of the excellent apps I suggested since
some of them (for example, the first one I listed, which I listed first for
that reason) provide a real-time OSM map location of not only the cell tower
your phone is connected to, but also "what it thinks is" the location of the
nearby cell towers on that map, in addition to signal strength readings from
all of them (including the band, EARFCN, PCI, RSSI, RSRP, & RSRQ of each
neighboring cell).

Of course, "what it thinks is" the location of the cellular transmitter on
that OSM map could be wrong, but at least it knows a lot more than some cell
tower databases know in that it pinpoints "what it thinks is" the location
of the myriad microtowers (aka microcells) in use (which is why I know
cellular microcells (aka cellular femtocells are extremely common in homes
of rural areas).

Perhaps you can teach me something though, which is the answer to the
question of how the Internet databases get their locations. Don't they get
them the same way in that the locations of the towers on the Internet
databases are also "what it thinks is" the location of the tower - only it's
an assemblage of many reports based on signal strength - is it not?

The point is that _none_ of the cell tower locations accessible to consumers
are directly from the cellular provider (AFAIK), isn't that correct?

They're all estimates (AFAIK) based on what each phone reports it receives.

While I'm sure every cellular provider "can" provide an exact location of
ever sector of every transmitter they own, I don't think the Internet
databases work that way. I think they work the same way that apps like the
ones I suggested work - in that it's "what they think is" the location of
that tower (sometimes it's in the middle of a river, which is the infamous
one we're all familiar with).

While the apps I listed are the best out there for free ad free real time
cellular tower information (imho), if you still want to look up the data in
an Internet source, there's nothing stopping you from doing so given they
provide the unique cell tower ID. The myriad microcells won't be in any
consumer accessible database though, so you still need a real-time tool no
matter what (if you want accurate real-time data as to the location of the
nearby towers).

If you can find better free ad free apps than those I listed, I'm all ears.

[notya...@gmail.com]

The location of base stations used to be published, but this ceased AIUI for security reasons.

Since the 5G flat earthers started setting fire to masts, this would seem very sensible.

Location of traditional masts are plain to see, but some are disguised as fir trees,

https://goo.gl/maps/3weoKiqBMzH5H8Vq5

and others as parts of buildings.

https://goo.gl/maps/2c1729vfMxY7W1KL6 behind the [fake] louvres - only known from planning applications.

I only clocked one near me on an old pub in a conservation area when I noticed that the chimney stacks increased in size part way up. The was the transceiver equipment covered by a closely matching glass fibre or similar cover.

https://goo.gl/maps/ZQi88fX2W3sF3xBv9

[Woody]

Erm, not quite. If you had been able to get around the back you would
have seen a cable try down the back wall and either a cabin or external
cabinets at ground level. You can just see a bit of the tray and cable
on the back right corner of the roof. The pregnant chimneys just house
the aerials. There is a similar config on the boiler chimney of some
Victorian swimming baths about 400m from here.

[Tweed]

This
https://fi.pinterest.com/pin/406942516322829325/?amp_client_id=CLIENT_ID(_)&mweb_unauth_id=&simplified=true

is a Vodafone site. There’s a panel antenna behind each window above the
clock.

[Abandoned_Trolley]

I was under the impression that most mobile terminals on CDMA / WCDMA
networks are in an almost permanent state of "soft handover" when 2 or
more base stations are in range, in which case there may be no
definitive answer ?

--
random signature text inserted here

[Pamela]

On 08:46 22 Nov 2021, Abandoned_Trolley said:

> On 19/11/2021 00:12, Pamela wrote:
>> Is there an Android app which correctly shows the cell tower I'm
>> connected to?
>>
>> With the phone not being used, Opensignal and Network Cell Info
>> display a map with a line to a cell tower but each shows a
>> connection to different tower.
>>
>> Do these apps simply estimate the best cell tower or are they be
>> able to accurately identify which cell tower I am connected to?
>>
>> Which is the best app for this? I tried the following without much
>> success.
>>
>>
>> Opensignal https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?
>> id=com.staircase3.opensignal
>>
>> Network Cell Info Lite (M2Catalyst)

>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?
>> id=com.wilysis.cellinfolite
>>
>> O2 Cellmapper https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?
>> id=cellmapper.net.cellmapper
>>
>

> I was under the impression that most mobile terminals on CDMA /
> WCDMA networks are in an almost permanent state of "soft handover"
> when 2 or more base stations are in range, in which case there may
> be no definitive answer ?

I was hoping for an app which shows the connected tower in real time.

I could then move around the house and know from the display if I was
getting closer or further to the tower being used.

Some apps appear to provide this but it turns out they are estimating.

[Abandoned_Trolley]

>
> Some apps appear to provide this but it turns out they are estimating.

I think the word you are looking for might be "vapourware"

[notya...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 21 November 2021 at 19:45:15 UTC, Woody wrote:
SNIP

> > Location of traditional masts are plain to see, but some are disguised as fir trees,
> >
> > https://goo.gl/maps/3weoKiqBMzH5H8Vq5
> >
> > and others as parts of buildings.
> >
> > https://goo.gl/maps/2c1729vfMxY7W1KL6 behind the [fake] louvres - only known from planning applications.
> >
> > I only clocked one near me on an old pub in a conservation area when I noticed that the chimney stacks increased in size part way up. The was the transceiver equipment covered by a closely matching glass fibre or similar cover.
> >
> > https://goo.gl/maps/ZQi88fX2W3sF3xBv9
> >
> Erm, not quite. If you had been able to get around the back you would
> have seen a cable try down the back wall and either a cabin or external
> cabinets at ground level. You can just see a bit of the tray and cable
> on the back right corner of the roof. The pregnant chimneys just house
> the aerials. There is a similar config on the boiler chimney of some
> Victorian swimming baths about 400m from here.

There are some cables, not sure whether there are cabinets. In the case of the church above the equipment is all within the bell tower and cables run underground from the road.

[notya...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 22 November 2021 at 08:46:28 UTC, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
> On 19/11/2021 00:12, Pamela wrote:

SNIP

> >
> I was under the impression that most mobile terminals on CDMA / WCDMA
> networks are in an almost permanent state of "soft handover" when 2 or
> more base stations are in range, in which case there may be no
> definitive answer ?
>

Does it matter [W]CDMA is used in north America not here?

[Abandoned_Trolley]

How does 3G / 4G work in Europe then ?

[Andy Burns]

Abandoned_Trolley wrote:

> Mark Clayton wrote:
>
>> Does it matter [W]CDMA is used in north America not here?
>
> How does 3G / 4G work in Europe then ?

AFAIK, 3G is WCDMA, but 4G is OFDM.

[David Woolley]

On 22/11/2021 10:50, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
> How does 3G / 4G work in Europe then ?

4G is OFDM. 3G is the only CDMA system in the UK public networks. 5G
is also OFDM

(The original confusion will be because "CDMA" has never been used for
branding purposes, even though it is the underlying technology.)

[Andy Burns]

> Location of traditional masts are plain to see, but some are disguised as fir trees,
>
> https://goo.gl/maps/3weoKiqBMzH5H8Vq5
>
> and others as parts of buildings.
>
> https://goo.gl/maps/2c1729vfMxY7W1KL6 behind the [fake] louvres - only known from planning applications.

Or as slightly fatter chimneys, the ugly trunking gives it away, but that (along
with some of the fake brickwork) has been removed now if you scroll through the
timeline

<https://goo.gl/maps/BqMVjRjoJA6tGUAG7>

[Andy Burnelli]

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 09:05:23 GMT, Pamela wrote:

> I was hoping for an app which shows the connected tower in real time.
>
> I could then move around the house and know from the display if I was
> getting closer or further to the tower being used.
>
> Some apps appear to provide this but it turns out they are estimating.

You were given a free ad free app which not only shows the connected tower
(and lots more real time information about that connected tower), but it
also shows the tower location on a map (as far as the app knows it to be).

If anyone can provide a better app than that first one, I'm all ears.

[Pamela]

Thanks for the three links. I installed all three but IIRC only one gave
location data and that was as longitude & latitude co-ordinates. David
Woolley reply also seems to be referring to that.

None of the apps showed tower direction nor tower location together with
my location. I think one said it estimate which tower is connected.

The discussion suggests a tower chooses not to identify itself, meaning
an app can only estimate which tower is in use. Nor can an app can't tell
if another tower takes over the connection for any reason, which is what
may explain my patchy reception.

I wish it was simpler but my head is spinning with all the tech detail
from these apps along the first three I tried!

[David Woolley]

On 22/11/2021 19:31, Pamela wrote:
> I installed all three but IIRC only one gave
> location data and that was as longitude & latitude co-ordinates. David
> Woolley reply also seems to be referring to that.
>
> None of the apps showed tower direction nor tower location together with
> my location. I think one said it estimate which tower is connected.

I wasn't referring to any specific application, simply to the fact that
any app that would satisfy would need to obtain latitude and longitude
from its database.

Actually going from there to direction and range is relatively easy,
unless you are close to a pole (but I don't think there are many base
stations there!). You can do that by plugging the coordinates into
Google maps and using a ruler an protractor.

The expensive part of creating an app is creating or buying, and
maintaining, the database of mappings between MCC/MNC/LAC/CID's and
latitudes and longitudes.

As that cannot be done without a database, I was suggesting that the app
that claimed to do everything wanted without one wouldn't couldn't
achieve that. Even OSM is a database (it is licensed under database
rights law, in the UK), but all that could do is give the locations of
all the towers likely to be in range, and possibly MCC and MNC codes
(although those are likely to be incomplete).

[Andy Burns]

David Woolley wrote:

> The expensive part of creating an app is creating or buying, and maintaining,
> the database of mappings between MCC/MNC/LAC/CID's and latitudes and longitudes.

Or you crowd-source the data, and accept a certain level of inaccuracy.

[Andy Burnelli]

I think the OP may benefit from both a real time estimate of cellular tower
location in addition to a static on-line database query whose location
lookup can be based on crowd sourcing cellular tower location coordinates.

As always, if you know of a better solution than this one-two-punch
combination of real-time data plus offline location lookup, I'm all ears.

> Actually going from there to direction and range is relatively easy,
> unless you are close to a pole (but I don't think there are many base
> stations there!). You can do that by plugging the coordinates into
> Google maps and using a ruler an protractor.

I don't disagree that there are apps which give tower locations based on a
compass heading and distance, which they can also estimate given they know
the neighboring cells. I've used them in the past, but I don't remember
which offhand that do that compass readout method (I prefer the app to
constantly estimate in real time the location on an OSM map).

The best combination I can think of is a real-time app location estimate
coupled with a lookup of the cell tower unique ID in a static Internet db.

(A) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=make.more.r2d2.cellular_z
(B) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.simplyadvanced.ltediscovery
(C) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tts.imnos_mobile
(D) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.novvia.fispy

> The expensive part of creating an app is creating or buying, and
> maintaining, the database of mappings between MCC/MNC/LAC/CID's and
> latitudes and longitudes.

Agreed.
Don't most offline apps crowd source that static cell tower location data?

(a) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.staircase3.opensignal
(b) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wilysis.cellinfolite
(c) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cellmapper.net.cellmapper
(d) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.parizene.netmonitor

> As that cannot be done without a database, I was suggesting that the app
> that claimed to do everything wanted without one wouldn't couldn't
> achieve that. Even OSM is a database (it is licensed under database
> rights law, in the UK), but all that could do is give the locations of
> all the towers likely to be in range, and possibly MCC and MNC codes
> (although those are likely to be incomplete).

Agreed. See above.

The best-of-both worlds solution, AFAICT, is a one-two punch of a real-time
app plus a location lookup in a static online database.

(1) Does such a dual-purpose app exist? (if so, I'm all ears)
Otherwise...
(2) Which free & ad free app is good for real-time lookups?
(cellular-z, lte discovery, imnos mobile, i-spy)
(3) Which free & ad free app is good for static lookups?
(opensignal, cellinfolite, cellmapper, netmonitor)

[notya...@gmail.com]

Network Cell Lite map Info shows both your location, the connected mast, with a line and other base stations in range.

[Pamela]

The problem seems to be Network Cell Lite guesses which tower is
connected although it may not have enough data to do that accurately.

If the app doesn't know the existence of fill-in femtocells then they
get ignored, even if one of them happens to be providing the
connection.

[Andy Burns]

Pamela wrote:

> The problem seems to be Network Cell Lite guesses which tower is
> connected although it may not have enough data to do that accurately.

I'd expect any "network monitor app" to know well enough the MCC/MNC/LAC/CI it's
connected to, but that looking up where that actually is to be the problem.

> If the app doesn't know the existence of fill-in femtocells then they
> get ignored, even if one of them happens to be providing the
> connection.

Given the short range of femtocells, any crowd-surfed data about them is likely
to be quite accurate, provided the crowd device was using GPS rather than
cell-tower location to report where they are!