Vodafone Secure Net

[Scott]

Vodafone propose to charge me Ł1 per month for Vodafone Secure Net. I
am wondering if this is this worth having. Details of what it
actually does are vague. A Google search shows a lot of discussion,
but mostly about Vodafone setting the service up without agreement.

As I am the sole user of the phone, I don't need to spend money to
stop sites I would not log on to anyway. The antivirus function is
attractive but is it better than just installing antivirus on the
phone?

[Michael Chare]

On 07/07/2017 21:22, Scott wrote:
> Vodafone propose to charge me £1 per month for Vodafone Secure Net. I

I happened to learn today that you should be able to opt out of it.


--
Michael Chare

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Scott]

On Tue, 11 Jul 2017 21:53:44 +0100, Michael Chare
<mUNDERS...@chareDO.Torg.uk> wrote:

>On 07/07/2017 21:22, Scott wrote:
>> Vodafone propose to charge me £1 per month for Vodafone Secure Net. I
>> am wondering if this is this worth having. Details of what it
>> actually does are vague. A Google search shows a lot of discussion,
>> but mostly about Vodafone setting the service up without agreement.
>>
>> As I am the sole user of the phone, I don't need to spend money to
>> stop sites I would not log on to anyway. The antivirus function is
>> attractive but is it better than just installing antivirus on the
>> phone?
>>
>
>I happened to learn today that you should be able to opt out of it.

Thanks. I knew that already but my question was whether I *should*
opt out. As an afterthought, surely Vodafone need to keep their
servers clear of viruses anyway - whether I pay them or not - so what
added antivirus protection am I getting if I pay the £1?

[Someone Somewhere]

On 11/07/2017 22:08, Scott wrote:
> As an afterthought, surely Vodafone need to keep their
> servers clear of viruses anyway - whether I pay them or not - so what
> added antivirus protection am I getting if I pay the £1?
>

Because you are not just accessing their servers?

[tim...]

"Michael Chare" <mUNDERS...@chareDO.Torg.uk> wrote in message
news:ok3dlh$tdv$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 07/07/2017 21:22, Scott wrote:
>> Vodafone propose to charge me £1 per month for Vodafone Secure Net. I
>> am wondering if this is this worth having. Details of what it
>> actually does are vague. A Google search shows a lot of discussion,
>> but mostly about Vodafone setting the service up without agreement.
>>
>> As I am the sole user of the phone, I don't need to spend money to
>> stop sites I would not log on to anyway. The antivirus function is
>> attractive but is it better than just installing antivirus on the
>> phone?
>>
>
> I happened to learn today that you should be able to opt out of it.

well of course you can opt out of something that you need to pay for

you just refuse to pay for it

tim

[Martin Brown]

On 11/07/2017 22:08, Scott wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Jul 2017 21:53:44 +0100, Michael Chare
> <mUNDERS...@chareDO.Torg.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 07/07/2017 21:22, Scott wrote:
>>> Vodafone propose to charge me £1 per month for Vodafone Secure Net. I
>>> am wondering if this is this worth having. Details of what it
>>> actually does are vague. A Google search shows a lot of discussion,
>>> but mostly about Vodafone setting the service up without agreement.
>>>
>>> As I am the sole user of the phone, I don't need to spend money to
>>> stop sites I would not log on to anyway. The antivirus function is
>>> attractive but is it better than just installing antivirus on the
>>> phone?

Can you establish which AV they are proposing to install?

>> I happened to learn today that you should be able to opt out of it.
>
> Thanks. I knew that already but my question was whether I *should*
> opt out. As an afterthought, surely Vodafone need to keep their
> servers clear of viruses anyway - whether I pay them or not - so what
> added antivirus protection am I getting if I pay the £1?

Surely this question must be answered in their FAQs if they want people
to take advantage of the new service they are offering.

I suspect nasty malware attacks against Android and Apple smart phones
are inevitable in the not too distant future so the question is really
just how good is the new protection that Vodophone are offering?

Be aware that typo squatting means that you are never more than a few
clicks of a keyboard away from really dodgy hostile clone sites.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Scott]

Maybe my knowledge is lacking here, but how does a phone using the
Vodafone 4g network connect to the internet if not via a Vodafone
server?

[Someone Somewhere]

It may connect via Vodafone equipment, but it is arguable whether that
equipment can or should (and can't in the case on HTTPS) inspect
everything that transits over it.

If a driver commits a crime on the road is the Highways Agency somehow
liable for it?

[Scott]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 07:35:25 +0100, Someone Somewhere

That's irrelevant. I'm not asking about legal liability.

I am asking whether Vodafone has a business need to keep its
'equipment' clear of viruses and if so whether such virus protection
exists whether the customer opts in or out of Vodafone Secure Net.

[Martin Brown]

Obviously they will do their level best to keep their own gear free from
viruses and trojans. They may also drop customer identified as having
botnet infected kit off the internet to prevent worms from spreading.

The data coming from a hostile website transits their network *as data
packets* it is only when reassembled on the right operating system with
the wrong sort of zero day exploit available that bad things happen.

Unix is better than windows in that respect but it is not entirely
immune. You could browse a badly chosen website that infects you with
malware without their machines being any the wiser.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Tweed]

https://securenet.vodafone.co.uk/Dashboard explains in basic terms what it
does. It is a filtered connection to the public Internet. Vodafone's
"servers" are not really relevant to the issue. A filtered feed does have
some advantages. For example, if you receive a convincing phishing email
and click on a link within this email, the chances are that the rogue
website to which you would be taken will be blocked. (Unless you are an
early recipient of said email and the system hasn't yet caught up). Being
protected from the consequences of a phishing email can be quite valuable.
However, if you believe you will never be tricked by such an email then
that part of the service will be of no value to you. (I know of a number of
highly intelligent people who have fallen victim...)

If you attempt to download a known nasty file it will also block that. It
is essentially a centralised anti virus system.

In principle, it is a good idea. You have to decide if £1 per month per
device is worth it to you.

I haven't quite worked out how it works when you are connected via wifi to
a non Vodafone wifi network, as opposed to their cellular network. Ideas
anyone?

[Someone Somewhere]

On 13/07/2017 16:20, Scott wrote:

And my point is, from the network side they can't necessarily check (and
if your browser or app uses HTTPS it's impossible to do so) - so they
are asking if you will accept an app that will secure things on your
handset.

[Scott]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:46:58 +0100, Someone Somewhere

Not according to Vodafone
https://securenet.vodafone.co.uk/Dashboard
"Simple to use. Theres no need to download any apps or software. One
person can control everything, from one place, over the Vodafone
network, for all connected devices."

And
https://www.vodafone.co.uk/explore/network/vodafone-secure-net/
"Note: Secure Net doesn’t work over non-Vodafone mobile connections
such as Wi-Fi."

[Scott]

So what am I getting if I pay £1 that I am not getting anyway?

>
>The data coming from a hostile website transits their network *as data
>packets* it is only when reassembled on the right operating system with
>the wrong sort of zero day exploit available that bad things happen.

Can Vodafone stop this for £1 and let it through to the customers who
decline to pay £1? This would take some skilled programming.

>
>Unix is better than windows in that respect but it is not entirely
>immune. You could browse a badly chosen website that infects you with
>malware without their machines being any the wiser.

Android phone.

[Scott]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 17:45:15 +0000 (UTC), Tweed <gues...@who.com>
wrote:

>Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 07:48:08 +0100, Someone Somewhere
>> <nnt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/07/2017 22:08, Scott wrote:
>>>> As an afterthought, surely Vodafone need to keep their
>>>> servers clear of viruses anyway - whether I pay them or not - so what
>>>> added antivirus protection am I getting if I pay the £1?
>>>>
>>> Because you are not just accessing their servers?
>>
>> Maybe my knowledge is lacking here, but how does a phone using the
>> Vodafone 4g network connect to the internet if not via a Vodafone
>> server?
>>
>https://securenet.vodafone.co.uk/Dashboard explains in basic terms what it
>does. It is a filtered connection to the public Internet. Vodafone's
>"servers" are not really relevant to the issue. A filtered feed does have
>some advantages. For example, if you receive a convincing phishing email
>and click on a link within this email, the chances are that the rogue
>website to which you would be taken will be blocked. (Unless you are an
>early recipient of said email and the system hasn't yet caught up). Being
>protected from the consequences of a phishing email can be quite valuable.
>However, if you believe you will never be tricked by such an email then
>that part of the service will be of no value to you. (I know of a number of
>highly intelligent people who have fallen victim...)

I would never reply to an email using my mobile phone unless I knew
the sender. I would want my PC security systems to carry out all the
proper checks.

>
>If you attempt to download a known nasty file it will also block that. It
>is essentially a centralised anti virus system.

Which brings me back to my earlier question. Does Vodafone operate
two feeds - one for customers paying £1 and one for customers who
decline?

>
>In principle, it is a good idea. You have to decide if £1 per month per
>device is worth it to you.
>
>I haven't quite worked out how it works when you are connected via wifi to
>a non Vodafone wifi network, as opposed to their cellular network. Ideas
>anyone?
>

It doesn't:

[Tweed]

>> I haven't quite worked out how it works when you are connected via wifi to
>> a non Vodafone wifi network, as opposed to their cellular network. Ideas
>> anyone?
>>
> It doesn't:
> https://www.vodafone.co.uk/explore/network/vodafone-secure-net/
> "Note: Secure Net doesn’t work over non-Vodafone mobile connections
> such as Wi-Fi."
>

Then it is a possibly worse than useless product. Users can be lulled into
a false sense of security, thinking they are protected when they are not. I
would imagine that most users are connected to wifi at home, and thus not
protected. What they need to offer is a VPN endpoint so you can direct all
traffic through their filtered feed, regardless of how you are locally
connected. Large ISPs are now under huge government pressure to offer
filtered feeds to allow worried parents to restrict what their children can
see. It looks like this is Vodafone's implementation and marketing are
trying to make a few quid out of something they have to do anyway.

[Martin Brown]

Without reading their T&C's I imagine something that runs on your mobile
phone and keeps an eye on things that look like they are trying to do
something that might be heuristically like the behaviour of malware.

TBH £1/month seems excessive to me. There must be cheaper ways to
protect a mobile phone - my PC software comes with a license for mobile.

>> The data coming from a hostile website transits their network *as data
>> packets* it is only when reassembled on the right operating system with
>> the wrong sort of zero day exploit available that bad things happen.
>
> Can Vodafone stop this for £1 and let it through to the customers who
> decline to pay £1? This would take some skilled programming.

If you let them run some software on the phone then just like any other
local antivirus program supervisor it can protect the device more than
just allowing any old thing to run without further inspection.

>>
>> Unix is better than windows in that respect but it is not entirely
>> immune. You could browse a badly chosen website that infects you with
>> malware without their machines being any the wiser.
>
> Android phone.

A Windows phone you would probably be well advised to have some AV
product running on it if you value your sanity. I am not sure how
vulnerable an Android phone is to dedicated malware at the moment. There
hasn't really been a major attack against Android or iPhone yet.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Martin Brown]

The really nasty malware relies on that. Most of the inbound hostiles I
have seen have come from friends and business contacts who have been
infected by something (and should know better). The others pretend to be
from banks and worst of all delivery companies (and the quality of their
forgery is getting better all the time - in a hurry and if I was
expecting a parcel I might even click on one by mistake one day).

>> If you attempt to download a known nasty file it will also block that. It
>> is essentially a centralised anti virus system.
>
> Which brings me back to my earlier question. Does Vodafone operate
> two feeds - one for customers paying £1 and one for customers who
> decline?

If the system is as you describe then possibly yes. eg. One protected by
a blacklist of really bad URLs to never visit and one that isn't.

>>
>> In principle, it is a good idea. You have to decide if £1 per month per
>> device is worth it to you.
>>
>> I haven't quite worked out how it works when you are connected via wifi to
>> a non Vodafone wifi network, as opposed to their cellular network. Ideas
>> anyone?
>>
> It doesn't:
> https://www.vodafone.co.uk/explore/network/vodafone-secure-net/
> "Note: Secure Net doesn’t work over non-Vodafone mobile connections
> such as Wi-Fi."

So it sounds like they are filtering traffic to eliminate known danger
spots in the IP range. It will likely protect you from typo squatting on
high traffic sites like banks and Mickeysoft.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Rob Morley]

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 08:48:23 +0100
Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Without reading their T&C's I imagine something that runs on your
> mobile phone and keeps an eye on things that look like they are
> trying to do something that might be heuristically like the behaviour
> of malware.

Is the wrong answer - they're filtering content before delivering it to
the user.

[Scott]

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 06:47:36 +0000 (UTC), Tweed <gues...@who.com>
wrote:

>

>>> I haven't quite worked out how it works when you are connected via wifi to
>>> a non Vodafone wifi network, as opposed to their cellular network. Ideas
>>> anyone?
>>>
>> It doesn't:
>> https://www.vodafone.co.uk/explore/network/vodafone-secure-net/

>> "Note: Secure Net doesn?t work over non-Vodafone mobile connections

>> such as Wi-Fi."
>>
>Then it is a possibly worse than useless product. Users can be lulled into
>a false sense of security, thinking they are protected when they are not. I
>would imagine that most users are connected to wifi at home, and thus not
>protected. What they need to offer is a VPN endpoint so you can direct all
>traffic through their filtered feed, regardless of how you are locally
>connected. Large ISPs are now under huge government pressure to offer
>filtered feeds to allow worried parents to restrict what their children can
>see. It looks like this is Vodafone's implementation and marketing are
>trying to make a few quid out of something they have to do anyway.
>

Thanks, everyone. The more I read the less convinced I am that this
service is worth having at all, let alone paying £1 per month for. I
am not convinced about their ability to feed viruses to non-payers !!!