req adv: handheld dsl line tester
tg
faulty phone line on the broadband. I'm trying to locate a handheld tester that will test the dsl line and give me accurate
readings of the status of the line. Plugging a modem or a router in and waiting for the flashing light to stop isn't good enough
for my needs. I'm looking for a device to test the dsl signal on a professional level. Thanks for any advice.
Colin Forrester
Me too - although I now always carry a Draytek router to problem sites -
the DSL status information and spectrum analysis feature are very
useful. Just not portable enough.
In Paris last year I was able to convince the Frane Telecom engineer
that because the bottom of the status window was not green (it shows red
when no DSL is present) that FT hadn't provisioned DSL on the line. He
spoke to his controller, assured him/her that the English engineer had a
special tester and no DSL had been provisioned and while we had a coffee
FT fixed the problem and it went green.
Clint Sharp
<t...@nospamevereverever.net> writes
You could try
http://www.sunrisetelecom.com/mtt/mtthome.shtml
but I suspect it's going to be way outside your price bracket.
> Thanks for any advice.
>
>
>
>
>
--
Clint Sharp
kráftéé
The Openreach engineers use a Voyager 105 USB modem along with some in
house software, the Whoosh Test is still available but it is not
accurate, especially on longer lines....
All hand held testers are even to exspensive for BT/Openreach to
consider seriously
tg
"Clint Sharp" <cl...@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:Z68uagEY8v$EF...@clintsmc.demon.co.uk...
thanks for the advice, I've sent an e-mail to sunrisetelecom. For some reason they won't give out the price of their gear at their
site, (wierd).
tg
"Colin Forrester" <co...@thefrogslepthere.com> wrote in message news:4m8b1mF...@individual.net...
> tg wrote:
>> I work in computer repairs doing onsite visits and I'm getting an increasing number of homes lately with what appears to be a
>> faulty phone line on the broadband. I'm trying to locate a handheld tester that will test the dsl line and give me accurate
>> readings of the status of the line. Plugging a modem or a router in and waiting for the flashing light to stop isn't good enough
>> for my needs. I'm looking for a device to test the dsl signal on a professional level. Thanks for any advice.
>
> Me too - although I now always carry a Draytek router to problem sites - the DSL status information and spectrum analysis feature
> are very useful. Just not portable enough.
which exact model draytek do you use?
Danone@bt.com Pier Danone
news:44fef290$0$27301$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
BT use Presto
(http://www.trendcomms.com/trendweb/test/internationalwebpages.nsf/vlProducts/AuroraPresto)
But due to the cost, there is usually only one per exchange and they are only
used to check the line within the exchange.
Outside of this BT engineers use cheapo modems and poor inhouse software.
In all honesty, no matter how good a tester you have, it tends to be either go
or no go and nothing more than a basic modem is really required to test it from
an 'outsiders' point of view. As yourself these 2 questions:
1) Even if your tester will work and say all is fine, if you walk away leaving
the customers kit not working do you think you will get paid?
2) Even if you identify errors on a really amazing tester or network/protocol
analyzer, do you think you will find anyone to come out and say 'You clever
engineer! Thanks for pointing out the minor errors on our aging copper network.
We will get a team of engineers to renew the 7 miles of cable at once so your
tester is satisfied'
It all depends if you are interested in fixing the customers issues or looking
cool and like you know what you are doing because you have a complex tester.
Don't take that the wrong way I am not flaming you, it's just you come across
people who need such comfort toys to cover their doubt. The crux of it is, no
matter what you identify to be wrong, from the customers point of view it either
works or it does not work, and no amount of begging Openreach will have them
chasing faults that are not obvious to an engineer with a meter!
Colin Forrester
>>> I work in computer repairs doing onsite visits and I'm getting an increasing number of homes lately with what appears to be a
>>> faulty phone line on the broadband. I'm trying to locate a handheld tester that will test the dsl line and give me accurate
>>> readings of the status of the line. Plugging a modem or a router in and waiting for the flashing light to stop isn't good enough
>>> for my needs. I'm looking for a device to test the dsl signal on a professional level. Thanks for any advice.
>> Me too - although I now always carry a Draytek router to problem sites - the DSL status information and spectrum analysis feature
>> are very useful. Just not portable enough.
>
> which exact model draytek do you use?
An older 2600we model for this purpose. You should be able to get one
second hand for less than about £75.00.
PeterD
> In all honesty, no matter how good a tester you have, it tends to be
> either go or no go and nothing more than a basic modem is really required
> to test it from an 'outsiders' point of view. As yourself these 2
> questions:
>
> 1) Even if your tester will work and say all is fine, if you walk away leaving
> the customers kit not working do you think you will get paid?
>
> 2) Even if you identify errors on a really amazing tester or
> network/protocol analyzer, do you think you will find anyone to come out
> and say 'You clever engineer! Thanks for pointing out the minor errors on
> our aging copper network. We will get a team of engineers to renew the 7
> miles of cable at once so your tester is satisfied'
So what do you do when the ISP says the line *is* enabled, but every
piece of equipment you try on the line be it router or USB modem can't
get a connection? If you're prepared to sit on an 0870 number for an
hour or so then you get to talk to someone with a script who just runs
you through installing their Speedtouch software again, even though you
tell them you've installed plenty of ADSL modems, and routers that don't
need drivers installed and their crappy software configured. Support
people don't seem to understand routers and ethernet, only USB with its
inherent problems.
If you can't get any negotiation, there's no way of knowing whether
there is actually an ADSL signal on the line but it's so lost in the
noise that nothing can connect, or whether they've enabled the wrong
line, or not enabled anything at all despite their records showing they
have. That's when some kind of testing device would be useful, and it's
happening more and more as the maximum distance from the exchange is
increased with improvements in the technology.
--
Pd
kráftéé
> "tg" <t...@nospamevereverever.net> wrote in message
> news:44fef290$0$27301$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>> I work in computer repairs doing onsite visits and I'm getting an
>> increasing
> number of homes lately with what appears to be a
>> faulty phone line on the broadband. I'm trying to locate a handheld
>> tester
> that will test the dsl line and give me accurate
>> readings of the status of the line. Plugging a modem or a router in
>> and
> waiting for the flashing light to stop isn't good enough
>> for my needs. I'm looking for a device to test the dsl signal on a
> professional level. Thanks for any advice.
>
> BT use Presto
> (http://www.trendcomms.com/trendweb/test/internationalwebpages.nsf/vlProducts/AuroraPresto)
>
> But due to the cost, there is usually only one per exchange and they
> are only used to check the line within the exchange.
Beg to differ Pier, some of the exchanges around here have not got a
Presto & they still have to resort to using the old test router (via
the harwired test circuit)in order to do any test at all
kráftéé
That's when you get the ISP to get a Openreach engineer to site, or
are you going to climb poles, go into joints or cabs, to try & get
them working. If there is no signal, even your expensive handheld
tester will do you little good.
The only thing I would suggest is if you have that problem & you
aren't willing to try to get the ISP to escallate is use a USB modem
on your laptop & get your customer to turn off all electrical supplies
(via the consumer unit). If the modem suddenly burst into life you
will know that there is a piece of equipment on site causing a
problem. If, on the other hand, it doesn't you wont have lost
anything, but you will have covered another possible cause of the
problem.
tg
"Pier Danone" <Pier Dan...@bt.com> wrote in message news:qt-dnUWxG4x...@pipex.net...
the difference between an amateur and a professional is attention to detail. I want to be as professional as possible in my work
and be sure about the line I'm investigating. An amateur will stand there scratching his head, staring at the blinking modem light
and waiting on the helpline but a professional will produce the tools needed to get to the bottom of the problem.
To answer your question: if I can positively ascertain that the customers line is not up to scratch then yes the customer will pay
me for my time.
To answer your question: if I can positively ascertain the customers line is faulty I will communcate that to the 'isp support
staff' and I will be a position not to take any crap from them.
I am interested in fixing the customers issues effectively and with certainty. I am not interested in cheap alternatives, getting
by with this or that, and yes I do find comfort in having high quality testers and tools at my disposal. There's nothing wrong in
that.
tg
"kráftéé" <kraftee@dontspamkrafteeunless you know what'sgoodforu.pus.com> wrote in message
news:44ffe2f6$0$3598$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
> PeterD wrote:
>> "Pier Danone" <Pier Dan...@bt.com> wrote:
>>
>> ethernet, only USB with its inherent problems.
>>
>> If you can't get any negotiation, there's no way of knowing whether
>> there is actually an ADSL signal on the line but it's so lost in the
>> noise that nothing can connect, or whether they've enabled the wrong
>> line, or not enabled anything at all despite their records showing
>> they have. That's when some kind of testing device would be useful,
>> and it's happening more and more as the maximum distance from the
>> exchange is increased with improvements in the technology.
>
> That's when you get the ISP to get a Openreach engineer to site, or are you going to climb poles, go into joints or cabs, to try
> & get them working. If there is no signal, even your expensive handheld tester will do you little good.
have you ever tried getting to the point where you can get an Openreach engineer to the site? You speak as though this is an easy
thing. It certainly is not.
m
kráftéé wrote:
> Beg to differ Pier, some of the exchanges around here have not got a
> Presto & they still have to resort to using the old test router (via
> the harwired test circuit)in order to do any test at all
>
>
Very useful things manual testers though kraftee.
When I was working in the main HQ of a certain radio broadcaster some
considerable time ago, I made friends with the local jippy joe engineers
who used to maintain the PBX in those days (we used to test out the
lines provided for us).
As I wanted to get tickets for radio shows and the relevant extension
was always engaged, one just borrowed the tester and intercepted the
line to get priority!!
Mike
m
I have been doing similar with a 2600WE - worth keeping one just for the
spectrum analyser.
Anyone know if any other ADSL modems have similar function?
I would't mind getting one as tester to save having to re-engineer the
home network to USB/ICS when I go out top do a job.
Mike
Ian White
>So what do you do when the ISP says the line *is* enabled, but every
>piece of equipment you try on the line be it router or USB modem can't
>get a connection? If you're prepared to sit on an 0870 number for an
>hour or so then you get to talk to someone with a script who just runs
>you through installing their Speedtouch software again, even though you
>tell them you've installed plenty of ADSL modems, and routers that
>don't need drivers installed and their crappy software configured.
>Support people don't seem to understand routers and ethernet, only USB
>with its inherent problems.
>
>If you can't get any negotiation, there's no way of knowing whether
>there is actually an ADSL signal on the line but it's so lost in the
>noise that nothing can connect, or whether they've enabled the wrong
>line, or not enabled anything at all despite their records showing they
>have. That's when some kind of testing device would be useful, and it's
>happening more and more as the maximum distance from the exchange is
>increased with improvements in the technology.
>
That really is the problem - whether or not you can get negotiation.
If you can, then even a low-cost router such as the Netgear DG834G can
be used to report link statistics including upstream and downstream line
attenuations and noise margins. I suspect that these 'analogue' results
in dB are actually being calculated from the throughput statistics, as
distinct from being measured in the true analogue domain. If so, it's
just another bit of firmware, and can be thrown in almost for free.
But if you can't get any negotiation, then all the measurements would
have to be made in the true analogue domain, and from only one end of
the line. That would require a very specialised piece of testgear -
which is hardly justifiable since, as PeterD says, the most likely
reason for total failure is that BTO haven't enabled the line at all.
FWIW, the Netgear DG834G has proved very useful here, at the end of an
8km line which is currently running at about 5 faults per year. The
noise margin stats are useful for performance checking while the link is
up (eg monitoring slow daily 'fades' that are probably due to cycling of
the temperature and/or humidity) and there is also a facility to log
major 'events' such as up and down times.
--
Ian White
tony sayer
If your after a Draytek this lot do them at a very competitive price as
well as other network related bits, and very good service they offer
too:))
Very good units.. got around 10 of them here and there:!.
http://www.datacommsdirect.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=227
--
Tony Sayer
Danone@bt.com Pier Danone
Ditto round here, I was saving that little gem for the comeback, you rotten
bugger!!!
Spoiled my fun you have.
It's funny that even BTO feel all you need is a modem/router to prove service
but it is.
Years ago I worked on transport refrigeration stuff. Complex crap that was a
mixture of 415 volt and 12/24v and mechanics too boot.
The company took on an ex-supermarket electrician/engineer and we went out on a
fault together, really for him to get a little exposure.
First fault was a unit that would not start. (Engine on generator would not turn
over). The guy got out his two hundred quid fluke tester and started looking for
12v on the starter solenoid terminal. Sure enough, there was 12v on his meter
that dropped down to 2v when you tried to crank the thing over. He surmised that
the starter must be at fault as it was drawing a massive current when you tried
to crank it. I got out an old test lamp made with two bits of wire and clips
with a tail lamp bulb as the indicator. When you stuck it on the terminal it
struggled to light up, and this was without trying to crank the engine over. A
wobble of the solenoid wire on the started would make the lamp glow fine. So I
looked closely and wobbled the solenoid wire a little more. The crimped end fell
off. The connection was 'HR' if you like and giving out when it tried to pass
current. Now the expensive meter was not able to spot this simple, inexpensive
fault. I won't preach the moral of the story. Just forget the comfort toys. All
you need is an elcheapo modem or router plugged into the master test jack. If it
won't sync up there, you are not going to be climbing poles and jumping in
footway boxes just like kraftee said.
The process to get a BB BTO engineer out remains the same as it always has. You
report the fault to the ISP. Depending on the quality of the ISP and your
ability to convince them of the fault will determine your success. Failing that
you can call BTO direct where a non BB BTO will attend, listen to your concerns
and problems, tell you to tell someone that gives a shit and to follow the
correct process. You will then be billed, the charge added to your phone bill.
You can then ring and contest it. You will be told that you have not followed
the correct process and the charge stands. If you don't pay it, being part of
your phone bill, you get cut off. This is when you find out the true quality of
your ISP. The process is the process. You can't blame BTO for it.
Danone@bt.com Pier Danone
So is the blinking sync light on a £1500 tester prettier to look at when you
"stand there scratching your head?"
| To answer your question: if I can positively ascertain that the customers line
is not up to scratch then yes the customer will pay
| me for my time.
The customer wiring can be disconnected on the majority of installations and
tested by the customer. If the customer is unable to do this what are your
chances of getting them to understand your pretty gayboy tester? They will want
to see a web page on a screen delivered by way of a modem or router. It's really
that simple. If you did it day in and day out you would know that already.
| To answer your question: if I can positively ascertain the customers line is
faulty I will communcate that to the 'isp support
| staff' and I will be a position not to take any crap from them.
You don't deal with many ISP's, do you. Good luck trying to get them to listen.
| I am interested in fixing the customers issues effectively and with certainty.
I am not interested in cheap alternatives, getting
| by with this or that, and yes I do find comfort in having high quality testers
and tools at my disposal. There's nothing wrong in
| that.
Don't take this the wrong way, but if you are professional and wanting to fix
issues 'effectively and with certainty' you could have easily saved yourself the
time here asking what us amateurs use and gone to Google and typed '"ADSL
TESTER" and hit [search]. I can confirm that there are plenty of sites in the
results that will rub their hands together and be happy to take your money Son
;-)
For what it's worth, we all have our own little ways and I use a standard BT
Blue test butt, in HI-Z monitor mode, hooked across the line whilst my elcheapo
modem/router tries to sync. I can hear both ends of the 'conversation' like that
and you just get to know the noises and if it's going to happen or not. You can
even hear the dropouts and line quality too. You see, I too am only interested
in getting in and out fast, as I have to deal with the other 7-10 miles of cable
outside of the nice clean customers house and have another 5 or so customers to
see whilst the phone is ringing and shaking so much in my pocket that I come in
my pants. I include this as I see this is cross posted to 'uk.d-i-y' and may be
of interest........
wil...@macleod-group.com
> To answer your question: if I can positively ascertain the customers line is faulty I will
> communcate that to the 'isp support staff' and I will be a position not to take any crap
> from them.
You can positively ascertain that the line is faulty with a Voyager 105
and a laptop as described before. Put it in a nice Peli case and
include a small screwdriver to remove the lower half of the master
socket if you want to appear with "fancy" bits of kit. You can then
use that to determine whether it's an Openreach issue or not. IME more
than 75% no sync issues I look at aren't Openreach failures.
There is absolutely no point in spending money on fancier bits of kit,
if you don't get your BB at the test socket you realistically speaking
are not going to fix it. You get on the phone, report the problem and
walk through the steps - if you get an agent with a clue then it's
easy, if you get a clueless agent then walk through the steps with them
- if they expect you to have a certain modem, then have one of those,
go through it with them, humour them, don't waste time arguing - they
want you to reinstall the drivers? Have the disk there, reinstall
them. Don't get angry with stupid questions, either. Get the fault
booked with openreach. Don't let it get autoclosed, if asked for a
retest, do the retest - have disks, have spare filters+modem if
possible. Line slightly crackly and you're not getting sync? Report it
as a PSTN fault, not a BB one. Intermittent connection? Get agent to
look at RAS logs to confirm....
> I am interested in fixing the customers issues effectively and with certainty.
Getting BB faults fixed quickly is not about having fancy kit, it's
about how you deal with people.
> I am not interested in cheap alternatives, getting by with this or that, and yes I do find
> comfort in having high quality testers and tools at my disposal. There's nothing wrong
> in that.
No, but having the same kit as a frames engineer isn't going to help
get customers BB problems fixed any faster short of you breaking in to
boxes, shinning up poles etc... ;-)
Regards
William MacLeod
Clint Sharp
<t...@nospamevereverever.net> writes
>no I disagree.
>the difference between an amateur and a professional is attention to
>detail.
the professional's ability to solve a problem with the minimum of
downtime and fuss using his knowledge and experience. No amount of shiny
pebble testers will make you into a professional. Ask yourself this;
What do the professionals use to diagnose a line problem?
You've already been told the answer by one professional yet you seem
determined to spend lots of money on unnecessary toys because you need a
comfort blanket. If you really want to buy the tester, go ahead, I'm
sure your customer's will appreciate it, especially when they work out
that the cost goes on their bill.
> An amateur will stand there scratching his head, staring at the
>blinking modem light
>and waiting on the helpline but a professional will produce the tools
>needed to get to the bottom of the problem.
You're right, a professional will have a laptop and a known good modem.
>To answer your question: if I can positively ascertain the customers
>line is faulty I will communcate that to the 'isp support
>staff' and I will be a position not to take any crap from them.
And you really expect them to pay more attention because you (allegedly)
have an expensive toy? Here's a clue, they won't care. If you can test
back to the BT test socket with a known good modem as well as the
ISP/User supplied one, that's good enough. I've never had a problem
convincing an ISP that it was a line problem with these simple tests.
I've worked on leased line, SHDSL, ISDN, POTS connected sites for
business, ISDN, POTS and (R)ADSL for home users and never needed
anything more than a spare modem/TA etc. where appropriate (I.E., where
I'm allowed to change them) to convince someone of a line problem.
--
Clint Sharp