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FTTP now here...
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Bev
Nov 23, 2020, 6:17:23 AM11/23/20
to
It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present but
we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things including
Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what speed I should
go for. Zen are also on my list (following a recommendation from a
friend) but their cost is quite a bit higher than BT as BT do lower
speeds.
Also does anyone have recent experience of moving from copper to FTTP?
Currently our line comes into the loft from overhead then through the
loft and down to a socket on the wall. The socket box is approx
65mm*65mm and looks like this:
https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/electrical-power-diy/faceplates-stubs/
telecom-faceplates/8988-kenable-telephone-secondary-idc-punch-2-3a-phone-
line-socket-with-back-box-008988-5055383489886.html
Its been there for a long time and there are no other sockets in the
bungalow (including the loft).
In an ideal world I'd like the fibre to follow the route of the existing
cabling but all I've read so far is that Openreach terminate at a box on
the wall (ususally in the hall??) and won't run it into the loft and
through. Is this the case still as the articles I've read are somewhat
older and I'm hoping things may have changed hence the reason for asking
if anyone has up to date experience.
Thanks for reading and help/advice gratefully received.
advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present but
we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things including
Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what speed I should
go for. Zen are also on my list (following a recommendation from a
friend) but their cost is quite a bit higher than BT as BT do lower
speeds.
Also does anyone have recent experience of moving from copper to FTTP?
Currently our line comes into the loft from overhead then through the
loft and down to a socket on the wall. The socket box is approx
65mm*65mm and looks like this:
https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/electrical-power-diy/faceplates-stubs/
telecom-faceplates/8988-kenable-telephone-secondary-idc-punch-2-3a-phone-
line-socket-with-back-box-008988-5055383489886.html
Its been there for a long time and there are no other sockets in the
bungalow (including the loft).
In an ideal world I'd like the fibre to follow the route of the existing
cabling but all I've read so far is that Openreach terminate at a box on
the wall (ususally in the hall??) and won't run it into the loft and
through. Is this the case still as the articles I've read are somewhat
older and I'm hoping things may have changed hence the reason for asking
if anyone has up to date experience.
Thanks for reading and help/advice gratefully received.
Martin Brown
Nov 23, 2020, 6:45:56 AM11/23/20
to
On 23/11/2020 11:17, Bev wrote:
> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
Doesn't really matter which option you choose then even a half decent
> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
ADSL 2+ copper line will beat that speed. Affordable FTTP tends to be
one or two orders of magnitude faster than what you have at present.
>
> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present but
> we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things including
> Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what speed I should
> go for. Zen are also on my list (following a recommendation from a
> friend) but their cost is quite a bit higher than BT as BT do lower
> speeds.
Unless you need dedicated business support then Zen might be overkill
> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present but
> we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things including
> Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what speed I should
> go for. Zen are also on my list (following a recommendation from a
> friend) but their cost is quite a bit higher than BT as BT do lower
> speeds.
and BT or Plusnet entirely adequate. I prefer Plusnet to BT myself. YMMV
> Also does anyone have recent experience of moving from copper to FTTP?
> Currently our line comes into the loft from overhead then through the
> loft and down to a socket on the wall. The socket box is approx
> 65mm*65mm and looks like this:
> https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/electrical-power-diy/faceplates-stubs/
> telecom-faceplates/8988-kenable-telephone-secondary-idc-punch-2-3a-phone-
> line-socket-with-back-box-008988-5055383489886.html
>
> Its been there for a long time and there are no other sockets in the
> bungalow (including the loft).
>
> In an ideal world I'd like the fibre to follow the route of the existing
> cabling but all I've read so far is that Openreach terminate at a box on
> the wall (ususally in the hall??) and won't run it into the loft and
> through. Is this the case still as the articles I've read are somewhat
> older and I'm hoping things may have changed hence the reason for asking
> if anyone has up to date experience.
>
> Thanks for reading and help/advice gratefully received.
then I expect they (BT) will do the same for FTTP. My master socket is
conveniently located at the far end of the loft where the BT cable
enters my property. PITA for plugging into the test socket with a modem!
Have they been digging up all the pavement recently? In which case the
fibre will have been buried and you will be on a box in the hall. This
lot have been trashing the pavements in Newcastle fairly recently and
leafleting homes about it. Only thing they don't mention is the price.
https://www.cityfibre.com
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Davey
Nov 23, 2020, 6:56:47 AM11/23/20
to
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 05:17:21 -0600
Bev <B...@invalid.com> wrote:
> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>
> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present
> but we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things
> including Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what
> speed I should go for. Zen are also on my list (following a
> recommendation from a friend) but their cost is quite a bit higher
> than BT as BT do lower speeds.
>
snip
Bev <B...@invalid.com> wrote:
> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>
> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present
> but we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things
> including Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what
> speed I should go for. Zen are also on my list (following a
> recommendation from a friend) but their cost is quite a bit higher
> than BT as BT do lower speeds.
>
>
> Thanks for reading and help/advice gratefully received.
on a whim, and sending bills that were unintelligible, Zen are still
charging me the same as when I switched to them several years ago. And
their Help really is good. And they speak English (well, Lancashire).
--
Davey.
Andy Burns
Nov 23, 2020, 6:59:22 AM11/23/20
to
Bev wrote:
> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>
> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
> likely to need speed wise.
I don't have BT FTTP available, only BT FTTC or Virgin FTTP.
> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>
> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
> likely to need speed wise.
I moved from ~2Mbps dodgy ADSL2+ to 80/20 FTTC just because I could and
the price wasn't excessive, I suspect most of the time 40/10 would be
equally as good for me.
> Its mostly browsing and emails at present but
> we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things including
> Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what speed I should
> go for.
40/2
40/10
55/10
80/20
110/15
115/20
160/30
220/20
220/30
330/30
330/50
550/75
1000/115
Probably not all available from all providers, and highest speeds only
available in some areas, I suspect the only available speed you'd regret
would be the 40/2
Theo
Nov 23, 2020, 7:02:00 AM11/23/20
to
Bev <B...@invalid.com> wrote:
> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>
> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present but
> we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things including
> Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what speed I should
> go for. Zen are also on my list (following a recommendation from a
> friend) but their cost is quite a bit higher than BT as BT do lower
> speeds.
Assuming this is Openreach FTTP, the pricing is actually fairly flat.
> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>
> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present but
> we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things including
> Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what speed I should
> go for. Zen are also on my list (following a recommendation from a
> friend) but their cost is quite a bit higher than BT as BT do lower
> speeds.
Looking at BT currently:
Full fibre 100 (150Mbps sync): £39.99/month
Full fibre 300: £49.99/month
Full fibre 900: £59.99/month
on 24 month contracts (first 3 months free).
Other ISPs have lower speed tiers, but the steps from 80->150->300 are often
only a few pounds.
I'd say 80 will be fine for you, but it's likely to be a small difference to
bump to 150.
BT are also offering me 36, 50 and 74 tiers at £26.99/31.99 - I'm not sure
if those are FTTP or FTTC. If it offers that for you a 50 tier would
probably be fine (same price as the 36 tier).
You can also ask to upgrade if the speed is too slow, so there's not really
a problem to take a lower tier to begin with.
> Also does anyone have recent experience of moving from copper to FTTP?
> Currently our line comes into the loft from overhead then through the
> loft and down to a socket on the wall. The socket box is approx
> 65mm*65mm and looks like this:
> https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/electrical-power-diy/faceplates-stubs/
> telecom-faceplates/8988-kenable-telephone-secondary-idc-punch-2-3a-phone-
> line-socket-with-back-box-008988-5055383489886.html
>
> Its been there for a long time and there are no other sockets in the
> bungalow (including the loft).
>
> In an ideal world I'd like the fibre to follow the route of the existing
> cabling but all I've read so far is that Openreach terminate at a box on
> the wall (ususally in the hall??) and won't run it into the loft and
> through. Is this the case still as the articles I've read are somewhat
> older and I'm hoping things may have changed hence the reason for asking
> if anyone has up to date experience.
same point on the roof, but instead of going to the master socket in the
loft, ran down the side of the house into the living room, where the ONT box
was mounted on the wall.
If the loft is habitable (boarded, power, access etc) you could ask for the
ONT to go there. I don't know if they would agree.
I think the general rule is that they might be convinced if you can make
their life easier - eg run power to where you want it to go, run trunking
for the cabling, screw a piece of wood to the wall to mount the ONT, etc.
They want to do a simple install, so if you want it a particular way, make
that way simple.
Theo
David
Nov 23, 2020, 7:05:01 AM11/23/20
to
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:59:18 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
> Bev wrote:
>> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
>> likely to need speed wise.
>
> I don't have BT FTTP available, only BT FTTC or Virgin FTTP.
> Bev wrote:
>> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
>> likely to need speed wise.
>
> I don't have BT FTTP available, only BT FTTC or Virgin FTTP.
> The full list of possible speeds in down/up Mbps is
>
> 40/2 40/10 55/10 80/20 110/15 115/20 160/30 220/20 220/30 330/30 330/50
> 550/75 1000/115
>
> Probably not all available from all providers, and highest speeds only
> available in some areas, I suspect the only available speed you'd regret
> would be the 40/2
Thanks for the info on speeds Andy.
>
> 40/2 40/10 55/10 80/20 110/15 115/20 160/30 220/20 220/30 330/30 330/50
> 550/75 1000/115
>
> Probably not all available from all providers, and highest speeds only
> available in some areas, I suspect the only available speed you'd regret
> would be the 40/2
David
Nov 23, 2020, 7:11:05 AM11/23/20
to
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:45:49 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 23/11/2020 11:17, Bev wrote:
>> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
>> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>
> Doesn't really matter which option you choose then even a half decent
> ADSL 2+ copper line will beat that speed. Affordable FTTP tends to be
> one or two orders of magnitude faster than what you have at present.
>>
>> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
>> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present
>> but we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things
>> including Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what
>> speed I should go for. Zen are also on my list (following a
>> recommendation from a friend) but their cost is quite a bit higher than
>> BT as BT do lower speeds.
>
> Unless you need dedicated business support then Zen might be overkill
> and BT or Plusnet entirely adequate. I prefer Plusnet to BT myself. YMMV
Having been with Plusnet for more years than I care to imagine I'd have
> On 23/11/2020 11:17, Bev wrote:
>> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
>> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>
> Doesn't really matter which option you choose then even a half decent
> ADSL 2+ copper line will beat that speed. Affordable FTTP tends to be
> one or two orders of magnitude faster than what you have at present.
>>
>> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
>> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present
>> but we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things
>> including Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what
>> speed I should go for. Zen are also on my list (following a
>> recommendation from a friend) but their cost is quite a bit higher than
>> BT as BT do lower speeds.
>
> Unless you need dedicated business support then Zen might be overkill
> and BT or Plusnet entirely adequate. I prefer Plusnet to BT myself. YMMV
been more than happy to upgrade with them - but they don't do FTTP :(
I've asked and they did a trial a few years ago but have dropped it as an
option. Where's Bob when you need him!?
>
> If your existing line comes in through the loft from overhead cables
> then I expect they (BT) will do the same for FTTP. My master socket is
> conveniently located at the far end of the loft where the BT cable
> enters my property. PITA for plugging into the test socket with a modem!
>
> Have they been digging up all the pavement recently? In which case the
> fibre will have been buried and you will be on a box in the hall.
Pavements? what are they?:) Rural area with overhead supplies for phone
> If your existing line comes in through the loft from overhead cables
> then I expect they (BT) will do the same for FTTP. My master socket is
> conveniently located at the far end of the loft where the BT cable
> enters my property. PITA for plugging into the test socket with a modem!
>
> Have they been digging up all the pavement recently? In which case the
> fibre will have been buried and you will be on a box in the hall.
and electric here. The fibre guys have brought it to the nearest pole to
us (where the copper is also) and it'll then connect from there to the
property once I place an order.
David
Nov 23, 2020, 7:12:00 AM11/23/20
to
Graham J
Nov 23, 2020, 7:14:46 AM11/23/20
to
Martin Brown wrote:
> On 23/11/2020 11:17, Bev wrote:
>> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
>> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>
> Doesn't really matter which option you choose then even a half decent
> ADSL 2+ copper line will beat that speed. Affordable FTTP tends to be
> one or two orders of magnitude faster than what you have at present.
I disagree: 1.5 Mbits/sec is pretty good for ADSL in a remote rural
> On 23/11/2020 11:17, Bev wrote:
>> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
>> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>
> Doesn't really matter which option you choose then even a half decent
> ADSL 2+ copper line will beat that speed. Affordable FTTP tends to be
> one or two orders of magnitude faster than what you have at present.
location - I have seen speeds down to a quarter of that. Presumably
this is why Openreach are installing FTTP.
Don't touch BT or any of the cheap people. Use Zen.
USE ZEN
USE ZEN
USE ZEN
USE ZEN
USE ZEN
USE ZEN
They will answer the phone promptly and give good support, in English.
Worth ringing them now and asking exactly what would happen about your
wiring if you were to order FTTP from them.
The avoidance of hassle is worth the premium price, any day!
--
Graham J
David
Nov 23, 2020, 7:21:35 AM11/23/20
to
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 12:01:57 +0000, Theo wrote:
> In our pre-existing installation (~2016) the fibre came off the pole to
> the same point on the roof, but instead of going to the master socket in
> the loft, ran down the side of the house into the living room, where the
> ONT box was mounted on the wall.
>
> If the loft is habitable (boarded, power, access etc) you could ask for
> the ONT to go there. I don't know if they would agree.
>
> I think the general rule is that they might be convinced if you can make
> their life easier - eg run power to where you want it to go, run
> trunking for the cabling, screw a piece of wood to the wall to mount the
> ONT, etc. They want to do a simple install, so if you want it a
> particular way, make that way simple.
>
Thanks
> In our pre-existing installation (~2016) the fibre came off the pole to
> the same point on the roof, but instead of going to the master socket in
> the loft, ran down the side of the house into the living room, where the
> ONT box was mounted on the wall.
>
> If the loft is habitable (boarded, power, access etc) you could ask for
> the ONT to go there. I don't know if they would agree.
>
> I think the general rule is that they might be convinced if you can make
> their life easier - eg run power to where you want it to go, run
> trunking for the cabling, screw a piece of wood to the wall to mount the
> ONT, etc. They want to do a simple install, so if you want it a
> particular way, make that way simple.
>
David
Nov 23, 2020, 7:22:12 AM11/23/20
to
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 12:14:39 +0000, Graham J wrote:
>
> Don't touch BT or any of the cheap people. Use Zen.
>
> USE ZEN USE ZEN USE ZEN USE ZEN USE ZEN USE ZEN
>
> They will answer the phone promptly and give good support, in English.
>
> Worth ringing them now and asking exactly what would happen about your
> wiring if you were to order FTTP from them.
>
> The avoidance of hassle is worth the premium price, any day!
OK - I get it :)
>
> Don't touch BT or any of the cheap people. Use Zen.
>
> USE ZEN USE ZEN USE ZEN USE ZEN USE ZEN USE ZEN
>
> They will answer the phone promptly and give good support, in English.
>
> Worth ringing them now and asking exactly what would happen about your
> wiring if you were to order FTTP from them.
>
> The avoidance of hassle is worth the premium price, any day!
Andy Burns
Nov 23, 2020, 7:42:14 AM11/23/20
to
David wrote:
> Having been with Plusnet for more years than I care to imagine I'd have
> been more than happy to upgrade with them - but they don't do FTTP :(
> I've asked and they did a trial a few years ago but have dropped it as an
> option. Where's Bob when you need him!?
Bob's always been careful to say they only have the trial which is
> Having been with Plusnet for more years than I care to imagine I'd have
> been more than happy to upgrade with them - but they don't do FTTP :(
> I've asked and they did a trial a few years ago but have dropped it as an
> option. Where's Bob when you need him!?
closed and no date announced for an actual FTTP product, but the last
time he passed comment (here in August) he gave a more positive sounding
reply of ...
"Matter of time though really."
Theo
Nov 23, 2020, 8:03:22 AM11/23/20
to
Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
> They will answer the phone promptly and give good support, in English.
>
> Worth ringing them now and asking exactly what would happen about your
> wiring if you were to order FTTP from them.
Be aware that it's not Zen doing the installing, it's Openreach. Zen may be
>
> They will answer the phone promptly and give good support, in English.
>
> Worth ringing them now and asking exactly what would happen about your
> wiring if you were to order FTTP from them.
able to tell you what OR typically do, but I don't believe you get to
specify what you want to Zen.
> The avoidance of hassle is worth the premium price, any day!
network. At the time we had it there were few and BT was the best deal, but
I imagine that's not the case now:
https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/fttp-providers
BT are particularly sharp about long contracts and extortionate pricing if
you're out of fixed term, so I would avoid if at all possible.
For example, Sky have a 75/19 package for £25/month, or 150/28 for £35/month
(and maybe a bit of cashback on top), 18 month contracts. Those being
pessimistic advertising of the 80/20 and 160/30 Openreach speeds, of course.
Theo
Martin Brown
Nov 23, 2020, 8:23:40 AM11/23/20
to
On 23/11/2020 12:14, Graham J wrote:
> Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 23/11/2020 11:17, Bev wrote:
>>> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
>>> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>>
>> Doesn't really matter which option you choose then even a half decent
>> ADSL 2+ copper line will beat that speed. Affordable FTTP tends to be
>> one or two orders of magnitude faster than what you have at present.
>
> I disagree: 1.5 Mbits/sec is pretty good for ADSL in a remote rural
> location - I have seen speeds down to a quarter of that. Presumably
> this is why Openreach are installing FTTP.
I am in a remote rural location about 3 miles from the exchange and on
> Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 23/11/2020 11:17, Bev wrote:
>>> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
>>> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>>
>> Doesn't really matter which option you choose then even a half decent
>> ADSL 2+ copper line will beat that speed. Affordable FTTP tends to be
>> one or two orders of magnitude faster than what you have at present.
>
> I disagree: 1.5 Mbits/sec is pretty good for ADSL in a remote rural
> location - I have seen speeds down to a quarter of that. Presumably
> this is why Openreach are installing FTTP.
an exchange only line - there are no cabinets. Well there is one that is
enabled for FTTC but it is further from me than the exchange.
Many of my neighbours get ~1Mbps but I get 5Mbps on a good day and it
generally degrades with wind and wet to as low as 3M. Worse if the beck
is in spate since the cable runs end up full of water as do some of the
connection boxes (joint things that look like policemans helmets).
The neighbouring village has mixed aluminium and copper wiring that BT
will never admit to. Some of them barely get 256kbps and almost zero
reliability! Not surprisingly they have a peer to peer microwave net now
- which caused BT to bust a gut putting FTTC into their village.
> Don't touch BT or any of the cheap people. Use Zen.
>
> USE ZEN
> USE ZEN
> USE ZEN
> USE ZEN
> USE ZEN
> USE ZEN
>
> They will answer the phone promptly and give good support, in English.
OK and I find even EE which has a terrible customer support reputation
is fine for me. I generally only ever ring up when there is a hard
physical fault and I need no other technical support from them.
BT Openreach engineers come out to do anything that needs doing and when
suitably motivated with tea and biscuits try harder to fix things. Our
BT cabling is so old that there have not been any spare pairs now for
nearly a decade and they typically break one working circuit for every 3
that they mend. Zen would not be able to alter that statistic.
I grant you that Zen are much better at escalating things with BTOR.
The only ISP I would avoid like the plague is TalkTalk as their customer
service is risible - a friend in our village with them was without a
working landline for 3 months. Not surprisingly their former CEO
Baroness Harding now runs NHS Test and Trace - you couldn't make it up!
> Worth ringing them now and asking exactly what would happen about your
> wiring if you were to order FTTP from them.
>
> The avoidance of hassle is worth the premium price, any day!
players if you are not dependent on 24/7 business grade support.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Graham J
Nov 23, 2020, 9:41:07 AM11/23/20
to
Martin Brown wrote:
[snip]
.
>
> I am in a remote rural location about 3 miles from the exchange and on
> an exchange only line - there are no cabinets. Well there is one that is
> enabled for FTTC but it is further from me than the exchange.
>
> Many of my neighbours get ~1Mbps but I get 5Mbps on a good day and it
> generally degrades with wind and wet to as low as 3M. Worse if the beck
> is in spate since the cable runs end up full of water as do some of the
> connection boxes (joint things that look like policemans helmets).
3 miles is quite near. Those who are 6 miles away will talk of speeds
in the 100 kbits/sec region - so better than dial-up!
--
Graham J
[snip]
.
>
> I am in a remote rural location about 3 miles from the exchange and on
> an exchange only line - there are no cabinets. Well there is one that is
> enabled for FTTC but it is further from me than the exchange.
>
> Many of my neighbours get ~1Mbps but I get 5Mbps on a good day and it
> generally degrades with wind and wet to as low as 3M. Worse if the beck
> is in spate since the cable runs end up full of water as do some of the
> connection boxes (joint things that look like policemans helmets).
in the 100 kbits/sec region - so better than dial-up!
--
Graham J
PeterC
Nov 23, 2020, 11:53:32 AM11/23/20
to
On 23 Nov 2020 12:01:57 +0000 (GMT), Theo wrote:
> Bev <B...@invalid.com> wrote:
>> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
>> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>>
>> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
>> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present but
>> we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things including
>> Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what speed I should
>> go for. Zen are also on my list (following a recommendation from a
>> friend) but their cost is quite a bit higher than BT as BT do lower
>> speeds.
>
> Assuming this is Openreach FTTP, the pricing is actually fairly flat.
> Looking at BT currently:
>
> Full fibre 100 (150Mbps sync): £39.99/month
> Full fibre 300: £49.99/month
> Full fibre 900: £59.99/month
>
> on 24 month contracts (first 3 months free).
>
> Other ISPs have lower speed tiers, but the steps from 80->150->300 are often
> only a few pounds.
>
> I'd say 80 will be fine for you, but it's likely to be a small difference to
> bump to 150.
I'm with DirectSave Telecom and have been for several years. I swapped from
> Bev <B...@invalid.com> wrote:
>> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
>> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>>
>> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
>> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present but
>> we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things including
>> Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what speed I should
>> go for. Zen are also on my list (following a recommendation from a
>> friend) but their cost is quite a bit higher than BT as BT do lower
>> speeds.
>
> Assuming this is Openreach FTTP, the pricing is actually fairly flat.
> Looking at BT currently:
>
> Full fibre 100 (150Mbps sync): £39.99/month
> Full fibre 300: £49.99/month
> Full fibre 900: £59.99/month
>
> on 24 month contracts (first 3 months free).
>
> Other ISPs have lower speed tiers, but the steps from 80->150->300 are often
> only a few pounds.
>
> I'd say 80 will be fine for you, but it's likely to be a small difference to
> bump to 150.
TT (coincidence? TalkTalk - TestTrace - Dildo Hardon!) but still on TT's
servers, so email addresses OK. No problems except having to straighten out
a couple bills early on.
Not sure if FTTP is available but does do 35 Mbps (I get a steady 37) and
63. At a guess, if you want Netflix and video at the same time then 63 would
be better.
I can't get 63 here but it works well for what I want. Next door had a 6 hr.
video conference when she was self-isolating and no glitches (6 hr.
explained by it being with No. 10, so politicians involved).
https://www.directsavetelecom.co.uk/fibre-broadband.php
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
Chris
Nov 23, 2020, 7:42:07 PM11/23/20
to
Bev <B...@invalid.com> wrote:
> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>
> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present but
> we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things including
> Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what speed I should
> go for.
Any fibre product will do all of those. I'm on a 40/10 FTTC connection and
> It seems we now have FTTP available to us and I'm looking to take
> advantage of it as our current speed is <1.5mbps on a good day.
>
> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present but
> we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things including
> Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what speed I should
> go for.
work from home with little to no connection issues. Also manage 4k
streaming on a good day.
> Zen are also on my list (following a recommendation from a
> friend) but their cost is quite a bit higher than BT as BT do lower
> speeds.
Bev
Nov 24, 2020, 6:08:30 AM11/24/20
to
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 00:42:06 +0000, Chris wrote:
> Bev <B...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
>> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present
>> but we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things
>> including Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what
>> speed I should go for.
>
> Any fibre product will do all of those.
Ta
do I'll probably move back to them as I've always had good service on the
rare occasions I've needed them.
> Bev <B...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>> BT are offering various speed options but I haven't a clue what I am
>> likely to need speed wise. Its mostly browsing and emails at present
>> but we hope to video call family and get into the online TV things
>> including Netflix or whatever. Please give me a pointer as to what
>> speed I should go for.
>
> Any fibre product will do all of those.
>
> Another vote for plusnet here. Good value and very few problems.
I'd happily stay with Plusnet - but they don't do FTTP (yet) if ever they
> Another vote for plusnet here. Good value and very few problems.
do I'll probably move back to them as I've always had good service on the
rare occasions I've needed them.
Vir Campestris
Nov 24, 2020, 4:50:57 PM11/24/20
to
On 23/11/2020 13:23, Martin Brown wrote:
> The neighbouring village has mixed aluminium and copper wiring that BT
> will never admit to. Some of them barely get 256kbps and almost zero
> reliability! Not surprisingly they have a peer to peer microwave net now
> - which caused BT to bust a gut putting FTTC into their village.
I was with Plusnet until we started looking into a peer-to-peer network,
> The neighbouring village has mixed aluminium and copper wiring that BT
> will never admit to. Some of them barely get 256kbps and almost zero
> reliability! Not surprisingly they have a peer to peer microwave net now
> - which caused BT to bust a gut putting FTTC into their village.
when BT suddenly sorted us out. I now have a fibre... And Plusnet don't
support it.
I'm working from home. The real heavy lifting is done by a workstation
under my desk in the office; I'm running X Windows sessions to run an
editor there, compiling there, then downloading built code onto test
devices I have here.
All over a minimum speed (70Mbps) FTTP connection. I'm tempted to go
faster, but I just don't need it.
Even when I'm running zoom conferences...
One warning for you Bev, there are _two_ boxes for an FTTP connection -
a fibre modem and a router. Mine are in the under stairs cupboard where
/she/ doesn't have to look at them.
Andy
Roderick Stewart
Nov 25, 2020, 4:47:38 AM11/25/20
to
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 21:50:55 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.cam...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>One warning for you Bev, there are _two_ boxes for an FTTP connection -
>a fibre modem and a router. Mine are in the under stairs cupboard where
>/she/ doesn't have to look at them.
As originally installed by Openreach and supplied by my ISP, I had two
<vir.cam...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>One warning for you Bev, there are _two_ boxes for an FTTP connection -
>a fibre modem and a router. Mine are in the under stairs cupboard where
>/she/ doesn't have to look at them.
boxes for VDSL, until I discovered I could buy one box that would do
everything. Maybe the same is also true of FTTP, or will eventually
become so. Best positioning for external connection will not always be
the best positioning for wireless within the house, but in my case a
single box works just fine, and is one less thing powered 24/7.
Rod.
Bev
Nov 25, 2020, 5:53:38 AM11/25/20
to
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 21:50:55 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
>
> I was with Plusnet until we started looking into a peer-to-peer network,
> when BT suddenly sorted us out. I now have a fibre... And Plusnet don't
> support it.
It would be nice if they caught up with the game wouldn't it?
>
> I was with Plusnet until we started looking into a peer-to-peer network,
> when BT suddenly sorted us out. I now have a fibre... And Plusnet don't
> support it.
>
> One warning for you Bev, there are _two_ boxes for an FTTP connection -
> a fibre modem and a router. Mine are in the under stairs cupboard where
> /she/ doesn't have to look at them.
>
this still the case or does it now just come straight into the inside box?
Andy Burns
Nov 25, 2020, 6:01:04 AM11/25/20
to
Roderick Stewart wrote:
> As originally installed by Openreach and supplied by my ISP, I had two
> boxes for VDSL, until I discovered I could buy one box that would do
> everything. Maybe the same is also true of FTTP, or will eventually
> become so. Best positioning for external connection will not always be
> the best positioning for wireless within the house, but in my case a
> single box works just fine, and is one less thing powered 24/7.
It'll probably come, it's already that way in not-UK.
> As originally installed by Openreach and supplied by my ISP, I had two
> boxes for VDSL, until I discovered I could buy one box that would do
> everything. Maybe the same is also true of FTTP, or will eventually
> become so. Best positioning for external connection will not always be
> the best positioning for wireless within the house, but in my case a
> single box works just fine, and is one less thing powered 24/7.
many managed ethernet switches have SFP slots that can be used for
copper or fibre ethernet, it'd be nice if if you could put a GPON SFP in
a slot, which then bridged internet traffic to e.g. VLAN 101 and then
you could have a virtual router/firewall on the same connecting to your
wider LAN
not plug and play for your average home user, but I could also think
you'd get home routers with a fibre port on the back (with or without SFP).
<https://community.fs.com/blog/basic-knowledge-about-gpon-sfp-transceivers.html>
Woody
Nov 25, 2020, 6:59:21 AM11/25/20
to
On Wed 25/11/2020 10:53, Bev wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 21:50:55 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>
>> I was with Plusnet until we started looking into a peer-to-peer network,
>> when BT suddenly sorted us out. I now have a fibre... And Plusnet don't
>> support it.
>
> It would be nice if they caught up with the game wouldn't it?
>
[snip]
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 21:50:55 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>
>> I was with Plusnet until we started looking into a peer-to-peer network,
>> when BT suddenly sorted us out. I now have a fibre... And Plusnet don't
>> support it.
>
> It would be nice if they caught up with the game wouldn't it?
>
Remember PlusNet is owned by BT and they are effectively in competition
with each other. Ergo if BT want to steel a march on PN why not just bar
them having access to FTTP?
Martin Brown
Nov 25, 2020, 7:01:46 AM11/25/20
to
have a modem and a router as separate boxes. When it became more common
and a consuner item they merged into a single box with Wifi as well.
OTOH I don't think FTTP is likely to make it into the mass market.
A/VDSL are now pretty standard in most (all?) ISP supplied routers.
Certainly all the ones I have seen in the past decade are configurable
for either. I expect there are still a few older ones out there.
FTTC is fast enough for most households. FTTP is more for computer
wizards who probably will want to use their own router after the modem.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Graham J
Nov 25, 2020, 7:42:43 AM11/25/20
to
Martin Brown wrote:
[snip]
>
> FTTC is fast enough for most households. FTTP is more for computer
> wizards who probably will want to use their own router after the modem.
>
However, when Openreach decide to switch off PSTN and ISDN in 2025, see:
<https://digitalwholesalesolutions.com/2019/09/the-bt-openreach-pstn-and-isdn-2025-switch-off/>
... everybody will need to use some form of VoIP service.
At present no copper-based broadband service (ADSL or VDSL) is anything
like as reliable as the associated voice service on the underlying
copper pair.
Think of the effect of a nearby lightning strike: the analogue voice
service over copper will experience an audible click; whereas the
broadband service will lose sync and take about a minute to
re-synchronise and re-esttablishe the PPP session. Or consider what
happens when an Openreach technician touches your voice line with
his/her test equipment to discover whether the circuit is live: again,
the analogue voice call might experience a click, but the broadband
service will lose the connection for a minute.
For most websites and everyday use of broadband a loss of connection for
a minute would be tolerable; but for voice it is clearly totally
unacceptable.
I cannot see how Openreach can begin to consider withdrawing PSTN and
ISDN until this problem is resolved.
However, one resolution is FTTP. The fibre is immune to electrical
interference, and in theory ought to be many orders of magnitude more
reliable than a copper pair.
Of course, the customer premises equipment will rely on electrical
power; but I think most fibre modems and VoIP routers will be built with
internal rechargeable batteries - in the same way as mobile phones are
at present. Battery life and replacement might be a problem; but with
fibre it should be possible for the service provider to monitor the
customer's router continuously, not only for battery health but also
perhaps for burglar/fire/panic alarms and the like.
For some people a mobile phone will suffice for both voice and internet;
but in many cases the mobile signal within a building is inadequate so
many phones have WiFi calling capability and therefore rely on a
fixed-line internet connection.
--
Graham J
[snip]
>
> FTTC is fast enough for most households. FTTP is more for computer
> wizards who probably will want to use their own router after the modem.
>
<https://digitalwholesalesolutions.com/2019/09/the-bt-openreach-pstn-and-isdn-2025-switch-off/>
... everybody will need to use some form of VoIP service.
At present no copper-based broadband service (ADSL or VDSL) is anything
like as reliable as the associated voice service on the underlying
copper pair.
Think of the effect of a nearby lightning strike: the analogue voice
service over copper will experience an audible click; whereas the
broadband service will lose sync and take about a minute to
re-synchronise and re-esttablishe the PPP session. Or consider what
happens when an Openreach technician touches your voice line with
his/her test equipment to discover whether the circuit is live: again,
the analogue voice call might experience a click, but the broadband
service will lose the connection for a minute.
For most websites and everyday use of broadband a loss of connection for
a minute would be tolerable; but for voice it is clearly totally
unacceptable.
I cannot see how Openreach can begin to consider withdrawing PSTN and
ISDN until this problem is resolved.
However, one resolution is FTTP. The fibre is immune to electrical
interference, and in theory ought to be many orders of magnitude more
reliable than a copper pair.
Of course, the customer premises equipment will rely on electrical
power; but I think most fibre modems and VoIP routers will be built with
internal rechargeable batteries - in the same way as mobile phones are
at present. Battery life and replacement might be a problem; but with
fibre it should be possible for the service provider to monitor the
customer's router continuously, not only for battery health but also
perhaps for burglar/fire/panic alarms and the like.
For some people a mobile phone will suffice for both voice and internet;
but in many cases the mobile signal within a building is inadequate so
many phones have WiFi calling capability and therefore rely on a
fixed-line internet connection.
--
Graham J
Tweed
Nov 25, 2020, 9:01:42 AM11/25/20
to
too expensive to maintain in comparison to fibre. You don’t need to be a
computer wiz to benefit from it - never mind the speed, it’s a lot more
reliable than FTTC. FTTC is still a bodge, just a shorter length bodge than
ADSL.
Martin Brown
Nov 25, 2020, 9:24:04 AM11/25/20
to
Newcastle suburbs to put another new fibre service in at the moment.
However, in the rural backwater where I live hell will freeze over
before we get fibre to anything. The copper is on its last legs but the
cost of running fibre for a small number of premises is ludicrous.
Not having mains gas is a pretty good proxy for lousy internet too.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Bev
Nov 25, 2020, 11:53:10 AM11/25/20
to
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:24:01 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:
>
> However, in the rural backwater where I live hell will freeze over
> before we get fibre to anything. The copper is on its last legs but the
> cost of running fibre for a small number of premises is ludicrous.
That was what we thought a while back too - but now its here serving a
>
> However, in the rural backwater where I live hell will freeze over
> before we get fibre to anything. The copper is on its last legs but the
> cost of running fibre for a small number of premises is ludicrous.
hamlet of 10 homes.
>
> Not having mains gas is a pretty good proxy for lousy internet too.
A few weeks ago I'd have agreed with you - but perhaps the introduction
> Not having mains gas is a pretty good proxy for lousy internet too.
of fibre means we will get mains gas as well ...or not.
Trolleybus
Nov 26, 2020, 4:54:01 AM11/26/20
to
helped. Friends of mine live nearly 2 miles from a village with a
population of about 1500. They have just 2 properties within half a
mile of them yet have been offered 1Gb FTTP by Gigaclear.
This scheme has side benefits. My village has had FTTC for some time
so doesn't qualify for the rural scheme yet Gigaclear has laid fibre
as 'commercial infill'.
Trolleybus
Nov 26, 2020, 4:57:28 AM11/26/20
to
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 11:59:18 +0000, Woody <harro...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Because of their history BT has onerous conditions imposed upon it
forcing it to grant access to its equipment/premises to other
operators. Wouldn't this also apply to Plusnet if they're formally
another operator, irrespective of ownership?
wrote:
forcing it to grant access to its equipment/premises to other
operators. Wouldn't this also apply to Plusnet if they're formally
another operator, irrespective of ownership?
Roderick Stewart
Nov 26, 2020, 5:26:17 AM11/26/20
to
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:42:31 +0000, Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk>
wrote:
>At present no copper-based broadband service (ADSL or VDSL) is anything
>like as reliable as the associated voice service on the underlying
>copper pair.
Although I have heard of cases where there has been no dialtone but
working broadband - intermittent or low speed, but working - broadband
being RF and therefore capable of jumping across a gap in the wiring.
Rod.
wrote:
>At present no copper-based broadband service (ADSL or VDSL) is anything
>like as reliable as the associated voice service on the underlying
>copper pair.
working broadband - intermittent or low speed, but working - broadband
being RF and therefore capable of jumping across a gap in the wiring.
Rod.
Vir Campestris
Nov 26, 2020, 10:27:51 PM11/26/20
to
On 25/11/2020 12:01, Martin Brown wrote:
> FTTC is fast enough for most households. FTTP is more for computer
> wizards who probably will want to use their own router after the modem.
FTTP is also for those of us who are too far from any cabinet.
> FTTC is fast enough for most households. FTTP is more for computer
> wizards who probably will want to use their own router after the modem.
Andy
--
Though I suppose I am a computer whizz... 40 years in software!
Vir Campestris
Nov 26, 2020, 10:27:53 PM11/26/20
to
house. This is a junction box, and I think feeds several houses - not
all the poles have them.
From there a conduit with a fibre in it goes up the pole, across the
road to where the 'phone cable is attached to the house, then diverges.
It runs down a corner then goes into a hole in the wall which is
conveniently near the stairs. There's a foot or so visible inside the
house before it disappears under the stairs.
There is no junction box on the outside of the house.
Andy
Graham J
Nov 27, 2020, 4:47:30 AM11/27/20
to
results is often trivially slow and unreliable - but sufficient to send
& receive emails or report a fault via a website. It's very unlikely to
support a VoIP service.
It doesn't alter my contention that a copper-based broadband service is
not sufficiently reliable to support VoIP, and that FTTP will be
essential to give the same or better level of reliablity as we have
grown accustomed to using Voice Over Copper pair (there's a new acronym
VoCu!)
--
Graham J
Bev
Nov 27, 2020, 7:15:02 AM11/27/20
to
what to expect now.
Martin Brown
Dec 1, 2020, 8:03:37 AM12/1/20
to
On 26/11/2020 21:57, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 25/11/2020 12:01, Martin Brown wrote:
>> FTTC is fast enough for most households. FTTP is more for computer
>> wizards who probably will want to use their own router after the modem.
>
> FTTP is also for those of us who are too far from any cabinet.
And have £100k burning a hole in their trouser pocket. That is about the
> On 25/11/2020 12:01, Martin Brown wrote:
>> FTTC is fast enough for most households. FTTP is more for computer
>> wizards who probably will want to use their own router after the modem.
>
> FTTP is also for those of us who are too far from any cabinet.
starting price round here for FTTP - and increases with distance.
Seems they are only really interested if you are <2km away:
<https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=0WyIM7tTGGgucFf0dXUIWK4XSAplAmgrRZNg5Pk%2B5%2F%2BkRgB7BL4KNYn%2FlKx2YB4Qe6YShZ82RgLO%0AGLsH2e9%2Bmw%3D%3D>
Anything further is POA. They quoted a local farmer £5k for a line drop
that was only 200m from the cabinet. Admittedly on the wrong side of the
road...
Peer to peer microwave is a much cheaper option with a roughly £500
installation charge and then fairly normal monthly charges with speeds
up to 100M. Mifi pebble, SIM deal and yagi antenna might work for some.
Snag is you need clear line of sight to another live node.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Bev
Dec 1, 2020, 9:44:14 AM12/1/20
to
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:03:34 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 26/11/2020 21:57, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> On 25/11/2020 12:01, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> FTTC is fast enough for most households. FTTP is more for computer
>>> wizards who probably will want to use their own router after the
>>> modem.
>>
>> FTTP is also for those of us who are too far from any cabinet.
>
> And have £100k burning a hole in their trouser pocket. That is about the
> starting price round here for FTTP - and increases with distance.
>
> Seems they are only really interested if you are <2km away:
We are >6km away from nearest cabinet.
> On 26/11/2020 21:57, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> On 25/11/2020 12:01, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> FTTC is fast enough for most households. FTTP is more for computer
>>> wizards who probably will want to use their own router after the
>>> modem.
>>
>> FTTP is also for those of us who are too far from any cabinet.
>
> And have £100k burning a hole in their trouser pocket. That is about the
> starting price round here for FTTP - and increases with distance.
>
> Seems they are only really interested if you are <2km away:
>
> Anything further is POA. They quoted a local farmer £5k for a line drop
> that was only 200m from the cabinet. Admittedly on the wrong side of the
> road...
It is costing us nothing to have the fibre available as it is part of a
> Anything further is POA. They quoted a local farmer £5k for a line drop
> that was only 200m from the cabinet. Admittedly on the wrong side of the
> road...
Gov. funded scheme for rural areas in collaboration with the County
Council.
Vir Campestris
Dec 1, 2020, 9:59:29 AM12/1/20
to
On 26/11/2020 21:55, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>
> There's a green thing a metre long on the telephone pole opposite the
> house. This is a junction box, and I think feeds several houses - not
> all the poles have them.
>
> From there a conduit with a fibre in it goes up the pole, across the
> road to where the 'phone cable is attached to the house, then diverges.
> It runs down a corner then goes into a hole in the wall which is
> conveniently near the stairs. There's a foot or so visible inside the
> house before it disappears under the stairs.
>
> There is no junction box on the outside of the house.
And now the weather has got colder I'm going to correct myself.
>>
> There's a green thing a metre long on the telephone pole opposite the
> house. This is a junction box, and I think feeds several houses - not
> all the poles have them.
>
> From there a conduit with a fibre in it goes up the pole, across the
> road to where the 'phone cable is attached to the house, then diverges.
> It runs down a corner then goes into a hole in the wall which is
> conveniently near the stairs. There's a foot or so visible inside the
> house before it disappears under the stairs.
>
> There is no junction box on the outside of the house.
I'd forgotten that behind the firewood stack is a little box about the
size of my hand where the fibre from the pole meets the one from the
house :blush:
Andy
Bev
Dec 1, 2020, 10:58:33 AM12/1/20
to
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 14:59:27 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
>
> And now the weather has got colder I'm going to correct myself.
>
> I'd forgotten that behind the firewood stack is a little box about the
> size of my hand where the fibre from the pole meets the one from the
> house :blush:
>
Who needs firewood when you can have a hot flush ;)
>
> And now the weather has got colder I'm going to correct myself.
>
> I'd forgotten that behind the firewood stack is a little box about the
> size of my hand where the fibre from the pole meets the one from the
> house :blush:
>
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