Is now the time to move to VOIP for landline?

[Chris]

As per my other thread my current broadband contract is up and am
wondering if now's the time to move to a VOIP provider for telephony as
well. Especially given as it's going to happen anyway in the next few
years. Or is still a bit too soon?

My main motivation is to get cheap(er) international calls than what I
current get with a bundle on my broadband contract.

What are the pros and cons? Is the equipment more expensive than a std
DECT pair of handsets? Do I have to wire the phone to the router - that
might be a deal breaker as the router is nowhere near where the phones
are and rewiring is not on the cards.

TIA

[Mark Carver]

On 05/11/2021 14:56, Chris wrote:
>
> As per my other thread my current broadband contract is up and am
> wondering if now's the time to move to a VOIP provider for telephony
> as well. Especially given as it's going to happen anyway in the next
> few years. Or is still a bit too soon?
>

I'm not sure if it's even possible to migrate from a bundled broadband
and phone package, to separate broadband and VoIP suppliers and keep
your number ?

Ofcom need to get off their arse, and mandate it

[Richmond]

I think I'd like to see a defence against this sort of thing before I
became dependent on it.

https://commscouncil.uk/press/comms-council-uk-statement-on-ddos-attack/

[Theo]

Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As per my other thread my current broadband contract is up and am
> wondering if now's the time to move to a VOIP provider for telephony as
> well. Especially given as it's going to happen anyway in the next few
> years. Or is still a bit too soon?

If you're going to get migrated to VOIP by your landline provider, might as
well preempt that and go with a provider you chose.

> My main motivation is to get cheap(er) international calls than what I
> current get with a bundle on my broadband contract.

You should certainly be able to do that - <small number of pennies> per
minute is common, at least to any kind of destination that might be
available on a bundle (Cuba and Afghanistan are always going to be tricky)

> What are the pros and cons? Is the equipment more expensive than a std
> DECT pair of handsets? Do I have to wire the phone to the router - that
> might be a deal breaker as the router is nowhere near where the phones
> are and rewiring is not on the cards.

Equipment wise, Gigaset have some VOIP DECT base stations (eg N300, N300A,
N510). They speak VOIP ethernet rather than PSTN, but everything works like
a regular DECT phone. Some of them do PSTN as well. They're about £50, or
less used on ebay. Then add DECT phones (maybe your existing ones?) There's
5 minutes of setup via the web interface putting in the setup details and
you're done. You do have to plug it into an ethernet port, but after that
DECT is wireless.

You can also get various flavours of desk phones (the kind you often get in
offices these days) which may be wired or wireless.

Pros:

Much cheaper, especially when not on bundle (no '23p connection fee then
10p/min', just 0.5p/min).

Lots of flexibility - eg I get voicemails delivered by email. Easy diverts,
ringing multiple extensions at once until somebody picks up, etc

Better call quality

No longer restricted to geography - take your phone number with you when you
travel. Or have a number in every area code that you fancy.

Sometimes free calls (depends on your network/tariff - eg same-network free
calls)

Less spam, if you take a VOIP number not in a BT/Virgin/etc number block
(and don't port in a BT/Virgin/etc number)

Freedom to switch broadband provider without worry about their phone
offering.


Cons:

Many VOIP providers operate on a pence-per-minute model, without selling
'bundles' like 'unlimited weekend'. Most people will end up paying less,
but if you make huge amounts of calls per month you may pay more.

Check that your provider offers numbers like 111, 0844, 09 and other numbers
like that. Some of the providers targeted at overseas calling don't offer
the full range of UK numbers (because the UK numbering plan is so byzantine,
they don't bother to implement all the nooks and crannies with their weird
chargebands).

Check that your provider allows you to register an address on your number
for use with emergency services, and think about a mobile or a battery
backup in case of a power cut.

If your broadband is really creaky quality can suffer (eg on classic ADSL
with maybe 0.5Mbps upstream, it can contend for upstream bandwidth if you're
doing a big upload), although if you're on VDSL or enable QoS on your router
then should be fine.

Porting a number out of an existing connection can cause a cancellation of
broadband service if you don't do it right. Perhaps think about getting a
new line installed first, so you can port out the number of the old one
(which will cease the line)? Or just get by with mobile data for a little
while until the connection is reactivated on a new broadband contract.


All told, no way would I go back to an analogue line now.

Theo

[Graham J]

There are a variety of different VoIP phones available. All require a
LAN connection to your router. However some implement this using WiFi,
so your wiring difficulties should not present a problem. The biggest
advantage of a VoIP phone is that it can be plugged in anywhere in a
flood-wired CAT 5 system; but that is more relevant to a small business.

In the distant future, when Openreach eventually force everybody to have
FTTP, they will offer a router with a built-in VoIP capability,
configured (hard-wired, even) to work with only their VoIP service.
This router will have a standard telephone socket, into which you would
plug an ordinary POTS phone, or a DECT base station. So you might want
a small UPS to feed these devices, as has been discussed elsewhere.
It's not a properly thought-out solution. Further, it probably cannot
be made to work with any of the existing VoIP service providers.

Openreach could easily make a single product comprising fibre modem,
router, VoIP interface, and DECT base-station, with built-in backup
battery; and configured from a central office over IP. This would be a
drop-in replacement for a conventional POTS + DECT system.

Some while ago I bought some SNOM 300 devices from Voipfone, at about
£60 each. So probably slightly more expensive than a basic DECT phone.
In this instance the customer had CAT5 wiring anyway, and part of the
purpose was to have several numbers for phones in different parts of a
large house. They worked fine, and are still in use.

For a different customer I tried some Gigaset N300IP - this was in 2013.
These are a Hybrid DECT IP base station for landline and VoIP so the
handset uses DECT to communicate with the base station, which itself
works with both IP and POTS. The users complained that the dialling
procedure (pick up handset, press "wake" button, start dialling) would
usually lose the first digit: it was necessary to wait a good two
seconds before pressing the first digit. Nothing to do with VoIP, more
a problem with the handset itself. Perhaps they've improved since.

One final point: VoIP is useless if the LAN or internet connection is
unreliable. This in my view rules out WiFi (so CAT5 wiring is
essential); and it also rules out ADSL and FTTC for the internet
connection.

I monitor about 20 different users with FTTC and for about half of them
the connection up-time is hundreds of hours because the very few
failures are associated with lightning storms or mains power outages.
But for the other half the up-time is generally just a handful of hours.
The causes of their failures (generally just the router re-syncing)
are always in the Openreach system and range from wiring faults,
technicians touching the connection while working on another line,
equipment reboots (generally about 2am), and the like. Mostly these are
rural installations with long runs of copper pairs to the green cabinets.

FTTP should solve most of the reliability problems (other than Openreach
equipment reboots!)


--
Graham J

[Graham J]

Currently I think it depends on your broadband supplier. I know A&A
offer a broadband only copper connection (either ADSL or FTTC). I
suspect Zen would if asked, but you might struggle to get them to
understand that you want to keep the broadband service but migrate the
voice service away.

I've no confidence that any other provider would even understand such a
request.

--
Graham J

[Andy Burns]

Mark Carver wrote:

> I'm not sure if it's even possible to migrate from a bundled broadband and phone
> package, to separate broadband and VoIP suppliers and keep your number ?

AFAIK, if you do migrate your PSTN number away to a VoIP provider, it starts the
process of ceasing your xDSL line, since you can't have naked xDSL.

[Bob Eager]

That was once the case, but not any more.

I have naked DSL and a number of VoIP numbers.

[Andy Burns]

Bob Eager wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> AFAIK, if you do migrate your PSTN number away to a VoIP provider, it
>> starts the process of ceasing your xDSL line, since you can't have naked
>> xDSL.
>
> That was once the case, but not any more.
> I have naked DSL and a number of VoIP numbers.

Actual naked DSL? Or A&A's DSL with in/outgoing calls barred and a looped voice
announcement to keep Kelly/Quinn at bay?

[Theo]

Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> Bob Eager wrote:
>
> > That was once the case, but not any more.
> > I have naked DSL and a number of VoIP numbers.
>
> Actual naked DSL? Or A&A's DSL with in/outgoing calls barred and a looped voice
> announcement to keep Kelly/Quinn at bay?

I have SOGEA from Sky which is naked VDSL. There's no phone number attached
to the line - Sky provide a VOIP phone number which I could access if I
plugged a phone into the router, but since it only receives junk calls I
don't. I haven't checked to see whether there's any voice signal on the
line, but there's no reason to.

Theo

[Theo]

Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> One final point: VoIP is useless if the LAN or internet connection is
> unreliable. This in my view rules out WiFi (so CAT5 wiring is
> essential); and it also rules out ADSL and FTTC for the internet
> connection.

I suppose it depends on your use case, but I don't think a DSL resync at 2am
is going to disturb a lot of people's voice calls.

VOIP is unlikely to provide the same reliability as a copper pair direct to
the exchange, but these days we're used to 'try again in a couple of
minutes'. Given that a failed incoming call would record a missed call and
divert to voicemail, it's not like you'd be oblivious if somebody tried to
call while it was resyncing.

And, unlike 1950s, there are other means to communicate if one doesn't work.
So generally the once-in-a-blue-moon bit of variability can be managed
acceptably.

Theo

[Bob Eager]

The latter. But it might as well be. I have no number to migrate.

[Mark Carver]

On 05/11/2021 22:21, Theo wrote:
>
> I have SOGEA from Sky which is naked VDSL. There's no phone number attached
> to the line - Sky provide a VOIP phone number which I could access if I
> plugged a phone into the router, but since it only receives junk calls I
> don't. I haven't checked to see whether there's any voice signal on the
> line, but there's no reason to.
>

Someone else I know has SOGEA from EE. There's 50 volts on the line (as
normal) but silence, unless you randomly 'bang the hook' in which case
you can provoke an NU tone.

[Martin Brown]

On 05/11/2021 16:37, Graham J wrote:
> Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 05/11/2021 14:56, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>> As per my other thread my current broadband contract is up and am
>>> wondering if now's the time to move to a VOIP provider for telephony
>>> as well. Especially given as it's going to happen anyway in the next
>>> few years. Or is still a bit too soon?
>>>
>> I'm not sure if it's even possible to migrate from a bundled broadband
>> and phone package, to separate broadband and VoIP suppliers and keep
>> your number ?
>>
>> Ofcom need to get off their arse, and mandate it
>
> Currently I think it depends on your broadband supplier. I know A&A
> offer a broadband only copper connection (either ADSL or FTTC).  I
> suspect Zen would if asked, but you might struggle to get them to
> understand that you want to keep the broadband service but migrate the
> voice service away.

From the enquiries I made the answer seems to be that if you port the
number of a FTTC or ADSL line to VIOP the internet disappears as well.
Apparently it needs a phone number associated with the line.

BT solve it for now by providing both a copper circuit for POTS and a
hard fibre to premises link for the internet. Then you can later move
the landline number across to internet VOIP which is my intention.

I'm waiting to see if the new internet connection is stable before doing
anything more. My existing ADSL circuit is wet string on borrowed time.
Bad days it isn't up to streaming internet radio never mind TV!

>
> I've no confidence that any other provider would even understand such a
> request.

Many ISP's seem now to only offer new broadband only deals (no landline
phone). Apparently there is "no demand" for POTS phones any more.
They do have the advantage of still working in a power cut though.

I am rather attached to my landline number - had it a long time and
everybody that needs to knows what it is (and there are a lot of them).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Davey]

On Sat, 6 Nov 2021 15:43:50 +0000
Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

> I am rather attached to my landline number - had it a long time and
> everybody that needs to knows what it is (and there are a lot of
> them).

Me too. My mobile 'phone is only for my use in an emergency, I can't be
a***d to carry it, powered up, all day long.
--
Davey.

[Chris Green]

Not to mention that the landline works better, has better quality
sound and usually has a much easier to use interface.

--
Chris Green
·

[notya...@gmail.com]

Yes - take the phone number out first.

[Jack Harry Teesdale]

On 05/11/2021 14:56, Chris wrote:
>

My landline has already been moved over to the broadband router recently
(FTTC).

I still have the same landline number and the same call package but i
don't think i have VOIP.

[Andy Burns]

Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:

> My landline has already been moved over to the broadband router recently (FTTC).
>
> I still have the same landline number and the same call package but i don't
> think i have VOIP.

you do, it's just transparent to you, presented as a different POTS socket

[Jack Harry Teesdale]

So what equipment would i need to use VOIP instead or is it not pssible
to do so?

[Theo]

You are using VOIP, it's just presented as a socket on your
router where you can plug in an analogue handset. From your router onwards
towards the network it's all VOIP.

Your provider probably won't allow you to use your own VOIP equipment,
insisting that you use the socket on their router (and therefore can't use
your own router if you want a phone connection). You'd have to port your
number out to a third party VOIP provider if you wanted that.

Theo

[Woody]

Surely there's no reason why you should not use your own router, just
put it onto one of the ports of the ISP's router and if you can access
their router put yours in the DMZ?

[Andy Burns]

With that type of arrangement, it's unlikely that you can use the VoIP "line"
in any way *other* than that socket on the router.

To be sure, try asking the provider for details of their SIP proxy, and your
username/password, so you can configure it on your own devices.

If you get hollow laughter, or total confusion from the support droid, that
means the VoIP has been done purely for the provider's convenience not yours,
OTOH if they do give you details, you can enable your phone number to ring on
your mobile, or a VoIP client on a computer using a headset, or a VoIP phone
anywhere else that's convenient.

[Chris]

Ah ok. Maybe I'll give it a miss for now.

[Graham J]

Chris wrote:
> Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> Mark Carver wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure if it's even possible to migrate from a bundled broadband and phone
>>> package, to separate broadband and VoIP suppliers and keep your number ?
>>
>> AFAIK, if you do migrate your PSTN number away to a VoIP provider, it starts the
>> process of ceasing your xDSL line, since you can't have naked xDSL.

Other posters have contradicted this. Perhaps we can have more details:
the ISPs concerned, how the migration was achieved, etc ...

>
> Ah ok. Maybe I'll give it a miss for now.
>

--
Graham J

[Andy Burns]

Graham J wrote:

> Chris wrote:

>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> AFAIK, if you do migrate your PSTN number away to a VoIP provider, it starts the
>>> process of ceasing your xDSL line, since you can't have naked xDSL.
>
> Other posters have contradicted this.  Perhaps we can have more details: the
> ISPs concerned, how the migration was achieved, etc ...

Theo says he has SOGEA, but it's not clear if it was installed as a new service,
or migrated from a traditional PSTN service?

[David Wade]

Despite all the adds I see on Facebook and other sites, in the UK its
virtually impossible to have FTTC without paying for a land line, so I
would stop worrying about it until FTTP (or perhaps 5G) becomes available.

(Ye I know somne of the niche providers do this but they tend to be
expensive)

Dave
G4UGM

p.s.
https://www.uswitch.com/broadband/guides/broadband-no-landline/
has more info.

[Theo]

Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Theo says he has SOGEA, but it's not clear if it was installed as a new
> service, or migrated from a traditional PSTN service?

That was a new install. I think the previous people had Talktalk or
something, but in any case there was 10 days gap between them leaving and
the new service being set up. The phone number on the VOIP service is in a
Sky number block, not in the BT/OR number block that most people in the
village have.

(ie most people locally have a certain 01xxx xxxnnn prefix which relates to
the local exchange, while the Sky number is a completely different 01xxx
yyynnn range)

I think if you move to Sky from someone else they will port you onto SOGEA
if they can, although it's also possible to get a traditional WLR service
from them too.

Once on SOGEA you can presumably port the number out from their VOIP
service, although I don't know the state of porting agreements for them.
Number porting is a bit of a mess, which is a good reason to extract the
number away from your broadband provider asap. There's a few threads on
this, none of them very conclusive - this one:
https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4661196-fttp-order-and-land-line-voip-number-port.html
suggests porting out the VOIP number will cease the service. I would ask
Sky to confirm, but my number is in their number block so might have a
different answer to if the number was originally from BT. It might also be
that porting will cease their VOIP service (unsurprising) and depends on how
tightly having voice and having broadband is on their systems (ie another
ISP could do it differently).

My take on this is: work out a way to cover yourself for a short service
interruption - for example a 4G router, or do it while you're on holiday -
and take your opportunity to extract the number while you're out of a fixed
term deal. Then re-contract with somebody else, ideally to take effect the
day after the original line was ceased. You'll get a new number from your
broadband provider, which you don't care about, but your cherished number is
now free from your broadband arrangements.

Theo

[Theo]

David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid> wrote:
> Despite all the adds I see on Facebook and other sites, in the UK its
> virtually impossible to have FTTC without paying for a land line, so I
> would stop worrying about it until FTTP (or perhaps 5G) becomes available.
>
> (Ye I know somne of the niche providers do this but they tend to be
> expensive)

'Paying for a landline' is a myth. You're paying for somebody to maintain
the connection to your house - whether data or voice is provided on it
doesn't matter, it costs roughly the same to maintain. As I have argued in
the past, voice service is a revenue stream for the ISP - if you insist on
not being able to make voice calls that generate that revenue stream, expect
it to cost more.

Typically the 'landline' voice services provided by ISPs are expensive and
inflexible - 'call set up fees' which have no reason to exist, pricey
out-of-bundle minutes, expensive 'anytime calls' bundles, very steep
international calls and addon services (call waiting, diverts etc). Plus
you can't use the number on your mobile or when away from home.

The 'VOIP' connections provided by ISPs via the socket on their routers have
all the inconvenience of a physical landline while none of the benefits of
VOIP - the benefits are all for the ISP, not for you. In fact there's a
disbenefit in that now you need to power your router to get calls.

Hence the wish to move your voice service to someone who do actually care
about you as a customer and not a landline cash cow.

The benefit for your broadband is that now you're choosing a provider based
on only one thing - the quality and cost of their broadband service. And so
now you don't have to worry about their tariff for voice calls, because
those are handled by somebody else.

Theo

[notya...@gmail.com]

Yes BT were like that on BT BBT and BBV, however you could intercept the configuration string for their softphone and program other equipment. OTOH only worked locally and when the PC was on.

[Theo]

notya...@gmail.com <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes BT were like that on BT BBT and BBV, however you could intercept the
> configuration string for their softphone and program other equipment.
> OTOH only worked locally and when the PC was on.

The problem with that on the current BT/etc VOIP setups is the ATA is
included in the router. So unless you manage to root your router, you can't
snoop the traffic.

(and setup would probably be TLS anyway, so you'd need to spoof the
certificates as well)

I've dug into the Sky setup - I don't think the settings are baked into the
router, the config is handed out by TR104 (part of TR069). So you can't
find them out by reading out the flash, you need a TR069 client.

Theo

[Chris]

Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

> On 05/11/2021 16:37, Graham J wrote:
>>
>> I've no confidence that any other provider would even understand such a
>> request.
>
> Many ISP's seem now to only offer new broadband only deals (no landline
> phone). Apparently there is "no demand" for POTS phones any more.

Like who? Any mainstream options?

> They do have the advantage of still working in a power cut though.

Power cuts are very rare these days. I can only remember two in the last 15
years.

> I am rather attached to my landline number - had it a long time and
> everybody that needs to knows what it is (and there are a lot of them).

Apparently you can port out your number to VOIP.

[Mark Carver]

As said, you can but that will cease your broadband service too. So
you'd have reapply to have a new connection provided, which would mean a
gap of several days (14?) in broadband service

[Chris Green]

Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 05/11/2021 16:37, Graham J wrote:
> >>
> >> I've no confidence that any other provider would even understand such a
> >> request.
> >
> > Many ISP's seem now to only offer new broadband only deals (no landline
> > phone). Apparently there is "no demand" for POTS phones any more.
>
> Like who? Any mainstream options?
>
> > They do have the advantage of still working in a power cut though.
>
> Power cuts are very rare these days. I can only remember two in the last 15
> years.
>

That depends where you live. We have excellent FTTC but I think we
have, on average, one or two power cuts per year. They are usually
scheduled but can, on the other hand, be quite long, e.g. several
hours.

--
Chris Green
·

[notya...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 7 November 2021 at 15:13:07 UTC, Theo wrote:
> notya...@gmail.com <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yes BT were like that on BT BBT and BBV, however you could intercept the
> > configuration string for their softphone and program other equipment.
> > OTOH only worked locally and when the PC was on.
> The problem with that on the current BT/etc VOIP setups is the ATA is
> included in the router. So unless you manage to root your router, you can't
> snoop the traffic.

Possible in earlier hubs too, however if you used the BT's softphone it would send a URL which included the server, username and password [in plain text], which the softphone would intercept.

>
> (and setup would probably be TLS anyway, so you'd need to spoof the
> certificates as well)

Well maybe, it would seem likely BT have upped their game on security.

>
> I've dug into the Sky setup - I don't think the settings are baked into the
> router, the config is handed out by TR104 (part of TR069). So you can't
> find them out by reading out the flash, you need a TR069 client.

Dunno - I won't touch anything tainted by Murdoch - spawn of the devil...

>
> Theo

[Andy Burns]

Mark Clayton wrote:

> Theo wrote:
>
>> I've dug into the Sky setup
>

> I won't touch anything tainted by Murdoch

Anything against comcast?

[Angus Robertson - Magenta Systems Ltd]

> Dunno - I won't touch anything tainted by Murdoch - spawn of
> the devil...

So you won't watch any film or TV series made by 21st Century Fox?

Simple fact is channels only available on BSkyB show a lot of excellent USA TV
series mostly at the same time as they are shown over there, and quite a few
own productions.

If you'd prefer to wait a few years for these programmes to arrive on free to
air TV, or maybe sooner on Netflix, Disney or Prime pay TV, that's your choice.


Angus

[Martin Brown]

On 08/11/2021 12:14, Chris wrote:

> Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 05/11/2021 16:37, Graham J wrote:
>>>
>>> I've no confidence that any other provider would even understand such a
>>> request.
>>
>> Many ISP's seem now to only offer new broadband only deals (no landline
>> phone). Apparently there is "no demand" for POTS phones any more.
>
> Like who? Any mainstream options?

All of them that are not BT if you want to keep your existing landline
number if the information I was given is correct. If you go to fibre
only the default is "no line rental" and no number porting.

A few more esoteric suppliers will sort it out for you (for a price).
Mainstream ones say "this is our offer take it or leave it".

They will even connect you through to BT from their support desk.

>> They do have the advantage of still working in a power cut though.
>
> Power cuts are very rare these days. I can only remember two in the last 15
> years.

We get one annual scheduled power cut in summer for the trimming of
trees near power lines. And a few unscheduled ones when trees fall
through the lines or the milk tanker flattens one of the poles.

Usually this happens on the coldest day of the year and we are not very
high on their list of priority reconnects compared to nearby cities.

>> I am rather attached to my landline number - had it a long time and
>> everybody that needs to knows what it is (and there are a lot of them).
>
> Apparently you can port out your number to VOIP.

But only by losing the landline number and your ADSL internet connection
with it. Not exactly convenient.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[David Wade]

On 08/11/2021 21:17, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 08/11/2021 12:14, Chris wrote:
>> Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 05/11/2021 16:37, Graham J wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've no confidence that any other provider would even understand such a
>>>> request.
>>>
>>> Many ISP's seem now to only offer new broadband only deals (no landline
>>> phone). Apparently there is "no demand" for POTS phones any more.
>>
>> Like who? Any mainstream options?
>
> All of them that are not BT if you want to keep your existing landline
> number if the information I was given is correct. If you go to fibre
> only the default is "no line rental" and no number porting.
>

The original requester said he had FTTC not FTTP.
Sadly FTTP isn't available in many places....

> A few more esoteric suppliers will sort it out for you (for a price).
> Mainstream ones say "this is our offer take it or leave it".
>
> They will even connect you through to BT from their support desk.
>
>>> They do have the advantage of still working in a power cut though.
>>
>> Power cuts are very rare these days. I can only remember two in the
>> last 15
>> years.
>
> We get one annual scheduled power cut in summer for the trimming of
> trees near power lines. And a few unscheduled ones when trees fall
> through the lines or the milk tanker flattens one of the poles.
>
> Usually this happens on the coldest day of the year and we are not very
> high on their list of priority reconnects compared to nearby cities.
>

The fibre has backup

>>> I am rather attached to my landline number - had it a long time and
>>> everybody that needs to knows what it is (and there are a lot of them).
>>
>> Apparently you can port out your number to VOIP.
>
> But only by losing the landline number and your ADSL internet connection
> with it. Not exactly convenient.
>

No but if you still have ADSL or FTTP you won't save by moving it...

Dave

[notya...@gmail.com]

Perhaps I was a little too harsh - I won't PAY for anything tainted by Murdoch. We actually used to take the Times, until James announced that even if you had bought that day's paper you would have to pay again for online content. OTOH I do watch $ky news sometimes, which for now remains free in SD.

[Theo]

notya...@gmail.com <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps I was a little too harsh - I won't PAY for anything tainted by
> Murdoch. We actually used to take the Times, until James announced that
> even if you had bought that day's paper you would have to pay again for
> online content. OTOH I do watch $ky news sometimes, which for now remains
> free in SD.

As Andy points out, since 2018 Sky is owned by Comcast, not Murdoch.

While Comcast is not very customer friendly in the US, where they abuse
their monopoly in many places, they aren't in a monopoly position in the UK,
and the regulatory environment is stronger.

(expect perhaps in the case of satellite TV offerings, but then there's
plenty of non-satellite competition for that nowadays)

Theo

[notya...@gmail.com]

Well the Murdochs still cast a long shadow - it took O2 five years to reach normal standards of customer service after being hived off from BT.

[www.GymRatZ.co.uk]

> If your broadband is really creaky quality can suffer (eg on classic ADSL
> with maybe 0.5Mbps upstream, it can contend for upstream bandwidth if you're
> doing a big upload), although if you're on VDSL or enable QoS on your router
> then should be fine.

We manage 2 simultaneous calls on ADSL with extremely dodgy upstream of
usually <0.5Mbps though QoS on the router obviously helps by halting
everything else.

> All told, no way would I go back to an analogue line now.

Me neither even with the recent DDoS attacks.

The only reason I ever plug a POTS phone in is to fault find but that
only ever happens on the 2 ADSL lines, never had a problem on FTTC.