BT [Yahoo!] email down again

[R. Mark Clayton]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/yahoo-bt-down-email-working-3287154

When oh when are BT going to dump these idiots - it was promised nearly ten years ago.

Today any mail received between ~07:15 and 14:00 has just vanished into hyperspace, with little hope of recovering it.

It doesn't show in Outlook, other devices nor even web mail :-(

PS it hit lots of other ISP's too, so please don't suggest moving.

[Brighton Rock]

I have set my BT (and Yahoo) accounts to forward to a gmail account so
that I have some chance of reading mail when the BT (and Yahoo) servers
stop talking to me. But I don't think that it helped this time as I too
have an interesting time gap in incoming email so I suspect that any
emails sent then weren't even getting picked up by Yahoo.

[Tweed]

I am going to suggest moving. There are plenty of dedicated email
providers. I use 1and1 (now calling themselves ionos) with my own domain.
Can’t think of the last time it went wrong.

[Malcolm Loades]

When I attempted to send via SMTP direct to yahoo addresses this morning
yahoo responded "RECEIVED: 421 Service not available, closing
transmission channel tnmpmscs".

Yahoo simply wouldn't accept incoming connections.

Malcolm

[Graham J]

It's not the ISP you have to change, it's the mail provider. Get a
domain name of your own and pay somebody for a proper mail service!

--
Graham J

[Roderick Stewart]

Why not? If your ISP frequently doesn't work properly while others do,
then moving seems the most sensible thing to do. Why haven't you moved
to a different one already?

No problems at all here on Zen. There never are.

Rod.

[Chris]

Or get gmail.

[Graham J]

Depends whether you are OK with Google reading your mail and using it
for targeting their advertising ...

--
Graham J

[Richmond]

I believe they stopped doing that. But third party apps can still do it.

(If you don't believe me, google it. :D)

[MissRiaElaine]

Adblock Plus and Ghostery work wonders. Haven't seen an online ad in
years. DuckDuckGo is a reasonably efficient search engine as well.

Personally I use Gmail with Thunderbird, and I've never seen any ads there.



--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

[R. Mark Clayton]

They started trickling in this morning anything up to 24 hours late.

[Java Jive]

On 05/09/2019 15:57, R. Mark Clayton wrote:

Just in case you haven't spotted it:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49596820

[Chris]

Nothing is free, but you do get your emails ;)

[N_i_c_k]

A web search (not using Google) for "gmail junk false positive" says
no, in general you don't.
--
N_i_c_k

[MissRiaElaine]

Maybe I'm being particularly thick today, but I don't understand that.

[Richmond]

It's not about seeing ads, it's about whether google reads your
email. They said they had stopped doing it. That's not to say they don't
target ads, but they must use some other method.

[MissRiaElaine]

On 06/09/2019 22:16, Richmond wrote:

> It's not about seeing ads, it's about whether google reads your
> email. They said they had stopped doing it. That's not to say they don't
> target ads, but they must use some other method.

On 06/09/2019 22:16, Richmond wrote:

> It's not about seeing ads, it's about whether google reads your
> email. They said they had stopped doing it. That's not to say they don't
> target ads, but they must use some other method.

I don't think they ever used humans to read mail, but if they did look
at any of mine they wouldn't see much of interest..!

My philosophy is don't say anything online you wouldn't say to someone
face to face. Maybe if a few more people did the same the world would be
a better place.

Time for bed, methinks. Night all.

[critcher]

at least you know they are reading it.

[R. Mark Clayton]

Fallen over again overnight, one can get on web mail, but my phone, tablet and Outlook all get authentification failure - the usual scenario when Yahoo!'s servers are ****ed.

[Tweed]

R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:

I will suggest moving. Don’t use email from an ISP. I have my own domain,
it costs a trivial amount each year. Currently it is hosted by Ionos
(renamed 1&1), who again charge very little for the email service. I think
it has failed on me once in the last decade. If I fall out with Ionos I
could move my email to another provider without having to tell everyone my
email address has changed. I’ve no idea why you persist with Yahoo provided
email in the face of all the evidence you provide.

[Graham J]

+1

I use Tollon (nw Elite) for domain name & hosting - good value and
helpful ...

--
Graham J

[R. Mark Clayton]

I DON'T persist with Yahoo, BT do.

Personal domains were available in 1997 when I went online at home, but were very unreliable and you often had to use paid for dial up or ISDN.

Now with a BT internet email address, which loads of people know if I want another ISP and to keep my BTI address they want £7.50p per month just for "premium service". Quite a nasty trap.

As it happens we rented an Ionos address during the general election.

[Tweed]

>
> I DON'T persist with Yahoo, BT do.
>

That’s just playing with words. The solution to your problems is in your
hands.....

[MB]

About the only time I use my BT Internet EMail is when an EMail using my
normal EMail address bounces. Happens occasionally with one friend when
his EMail provided decides I am SPAM for some reason.

[R. Mark Clayton]

BT were supposed to have migrated off Yahoo! years and years ago, and most customers have, alas not all.

[Tweed]

R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:

Incompetent ISP and incompetent mail provider. There are better providers
of both services. As I said, the answer to your problem is I your hands.
Venting here about BT is not going to improve matters.

[bert]

In article <86c349e3-c645-41ad...@googlegroups.com>, R.
Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> writes

It started then stopped for "service issues" I think they may have meant
"contractual issues". That's when I left.
I now use gmail as my base e-mail service and rent my own domain name. I
set gmail to pick up any emails from my ISP mail box so I don't lose any
during the transition period. By now everyone apart from my ISP uses my
own email address. They don't see my gmail address.
--
bert

[R. Mark Clayton]

Today there was another hiccup and at last I got a handle on the fault.

About 10:50 I went to look at at my email on my tablet. It immediately gave a authentification failure and at the same time my phone bleeped - revealing an authentification failure on email. The phone was fairly up to date, but the tablet was a couple of hours behind.

The cause seems very likely a hazard / race that occurs when two devices try and access email at the same time, as both devices will try and update what has been read and what hasn't.

Interestingly the email recovered within three hours, whereas usually it is 12 hours or even a whole day.

[Recliner]

R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:

I received this email from BT yesterday:

Welcome to your new and improved email service

Hello,

Welcome to your new and improved email service from BT.

What’s been happening?

We know it’s important for you to have an email service that’s smart,
secure, and safe. Along with some great new features, that’s what you’ll
get with our spanking new, all-BT service. We think you’re going to like
it.

You’ll find all your emails and contacts in the same place, just as you
left them.

How can I get the best from my new email?

We hope you’ll find your new service simple and easy to use – but if you do
need any help getting started, why not take a look at our support page
http://www.bt.com/emailchanges ? Here you’ll find all the help you need,
including some short videos that’ll show you how to get the best out of it.

You’ll find the new terms of service at http://www.bt.com/newemailterms.

Best wishes,
BT Email team

————

The odd part is that I left BT almost six months ago! To my surprise, I
can still receive emails on my BT email address, though I don't send any.
My BT (McAfee) AV continues to work, and updates as it should. But my BT
Cloud cut off a while ago.

[R. Mark Clayton]

Lucky you.

Logged off earlier today after checking the Spam folder for genuine emails before purging it and it an it took me to a Yahoo! "do you really wont to exit?" page.

[Recliner]

Obviously I no longer follow the saga of BT's email system, but it must be
one of the most botched, long drawn-out migrations ever.

[bert]

In article <r02g0s$9hh$1...@dont-email.me>, Recliner
<recline...@gmail.com> writes

With all due respect to Mr Clayton I do wonder why anyone still persists
in using such a consistently unreliable system. Same issues as when I
left about 3 years ago.
--
bert

[R. Mark Clayton]

As stated previously £7.50p per month fee to keep ones email address if using another ISP :-(

[Chris]

And as stated previously to you, migrate your contacts to a new email
address which is not tied to a flakey, unreliable and annoying ISP.
There are plenty of options. Gmail, outlook, etc are free or you can get
your own domain plus email for a few quid a month.

[Chris Green]

Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> With all due respect to Mr Clayton I do wonder why anyone still persists
> >> in using such a consistently unreliable system. Same issues as when I
> >> left about 3 years ago.
> >> --
> >> bert
> >
> > As stated previously £7.50p per month fee to keep ones email address if using another ISP :-(
>
> And as stated previously to you, migrate your contacts to a new email
> address which is not tied to a flakey, unreliable and annoying ISP.
> There are plenty of options. Gmail, outlook, etc are free or you can get
> your own domain plus email for a few quid a month.
>

A "few quid a month"??? More like a few quid a year surely.

--
Chris Green
·

[Roderick Stewart]

On 21 Jan 2020 19:15:09 GMT, Ray <amos-...@outlook.com> wrote:

>There's a lesson here, never use an ISP's 'free' email. Even if it is farmed
>out to another supplier.
>There is no money in it, so no incentive to fix it. Same goes for free
>webspace.

Really? If the email system provided by my ISP is free, then what am I
paying for? I pay my money and I get a service (or to be precise a
bundle of related services). I've always understood that if I pay for
something and I get something, then that's what I'm paying for. I also
understand that if I don't like what I'm paying them for I have the
option to pay someone else instead. That definitely seems to me that
there is money in it.

Rod.

[Recliner]

In the early days, your ISP account included many bundled services on top
of the data connection. They included email, web space and personal web
site construction tools, news group access, forums, etc. Those bundles have
now largely unbundled, so you're really just paying for the broadband
connection. That's all that ISPs are now judged on.

Legacy ISPs still include some of those old services, while new ones don't.
Consequently, the legacy ISPs spend as little as possible on those old
bundled services. Better quality, equivalent services are now widely
available, free or at very low cost.

[R. Mark Clayton]

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 08:58:59 UTC, Chris wrote:
> On 21/01/2020 20:29, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 21 January 2020 15:13:04 UTC, bert wrote:

SNIP

> >> --
> >> bert
> >
> > As stated previously £7.50p per month fee to keep ones email address if using another ISP :-(
>
> And as stated previously to you, migrate your contacts to a new email
> address which is not tied to a flakey, unreliable and annoying ISP.
> There are plenty of options. Gmail, outlook, etc are free or you can get
> your own domain plus email for a few quid a month.

How many hundreds of contacts use my current email address. How many dozens of authentifications are tied to it as well?

A lot more annoying than albeit irritating current situation.


"Your password has expired. We have sent a password reset email to not_ther...@btinternet.com"

[Tweed]

R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well you’ve painted yourself into a bit of a corner. But to stop you
complaining, set your BT email to forward to your new service and use your
new service as your primary email service. (Or if you can’t forward use a
mail client that can read both accounts) Keep on paying BT to maintain the
forward. As you get emails from your BT address take steps to inform the
sender of the new address. Actively log into all the services that had your
old address and modify. After a year or so of effort you will be rid of BT.
Simply complaining about it here is not going to change anything for the
better. Even if you can’t be bothered to sort out your old addresses,
having a primary email address that works means you won’t be left regularly
without a service.

[Chris]

R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 08:58:59 UTC, Chris wrote:
>> On 21/01/2020 20:29, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 21 January 2020 15:13:04 UTC, bert wrote:
> SNIP
>
>>>> --
>>>> bert
>>>
>>> As stated previously £7.50p per month fee to keep ones email address if
>>> using another ISP :-(
>>
>> And as stated previously to you, migrate your contacts to a new email
>> address which is not tied to a flakey, unreliable and annoying ISP.
>> There are plenty of options. Gmail, outlook, etc are free or you can get
>> your own domain plus email for a few quid a month.
>
> How many hundreds of contacts use my current email address. How many
> dozens of authentifications are tied to it as well?

You should know that.

It is a pain, but it is doable with a managed transition over a few months.
You only need to do it once and then you'll be in complete control and not
at the mercy of BT's ineptitude.

> A lot more annoying than albeit irritating current situation.

Then stop complaining about it on here. You have the solution, but are
unprepared to use it.

[R. Mark Clayton]

I have a sore leg too, but I ain't going to amputate it.

[Java Jive]

On 22/01/2020 20:10, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 18:24:44 UTC, Chris wrote:
>> R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 08:58:59 UTC, Chris wrote:
>>>> On 21/01/2020 20:29, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, 21 January 2020 15:13:04 UTC, bert wrote:
>>>
>>> How many hundreds of contacts use my current email address. How many
>>> dozens of authentifications are tied to it as well?
>>
>> You should know that.
>>
>> It is a pain, but it is doable with a managed transition over a few months.
>> You only need to do it once and then you'll be in complete control and not
>> at the mercy of BT's ineptitude.

+1 to having your own domain.

>>> A lot more annoying than albeit irritating current situation.
>>
>> Then stop complaining about it on here. You have the solution, but are
>> unprepared to use it.
>
> I have a sore leg too, but I ain't going to amputate it.

But you don't come complaining about it here, and then refuse to
amputate it. If you're not prepared to follow the solutions offered,
stop moaning about it!.

[Chris]

I've not looked in depth, but the ones I've seen are 2-3 quid a month.

[Roderick Stewart]

On 22 Jan 2020 14:47:45 GMT, Ray <amos-...@outlook.com> wrote:

>>> There's a lesson here, never use an ISP's 'free' email. Even if it is farmed
>>> out to another supplier.
>>> There is no money in it, so no incentive to fix it. Same goes for free
>>> webspace.
>>
>> Really? If the email system provided by my ISP is free, then what am I
>> paying for?
>

>Broadband and line rental.
>The email is a legacy incentive designed primarily to keep you as a customer.
>If they took it away your monthly fee wouldn't change.

But my status as one of their customers very well might.

So far I've stayed with my present ISP for many years because I'm
happy with what they provide for me and thus have no reason to change.
A sudden decision to provide less for the same money, particularly if
the thing they stopped providing was something I actually use, would
definitely make me consider going elsewhere.

Rod.

[Roderick Stewart]

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 18:24:38 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> How many hundreds of contacts use my current email address. How many
>> dozens of authentifications are tied to it as well?
>
>You should know that.
>
>It is a pain, but it is doable with a managed transition over a few months.
>You only need to do it once and then you'll be in complete control and not
>at the mercy of BT's ineptitude.

I had to do something like this many years ago when I was using one of
the free email addresses the BBC provided, and then they stopped.

But they gave three months warning, with repeated warnings at two
months, one month, and then every week, so I had plenty of time to
deal with it. Yes, it is a pain, but also yes, it is doable. You just
have to do it.

Rod.

[Roderick Stewart]

On 23 Jan 2020 07:56:42 GMT, Ray <amos-...@outlook.com> wrote:

>> How many hundreds of contacts use my current email address. How many dozens of
>> authentifications are tied to it as well?
>> A lot more annoying than albeit irritating current situation.
>>

>A password manager would make that easy.

Easy for whom? To do what?

The more I think of the notion of all my passwords being stored in one
place on someone else's computer, the more I think that the best
"password manager" is a list that regardless of its format - paper,
electronic file, carved stone tablet etc - is kept only by me.

Rod.

[Chris]

Yep. I do speak from experience. My FIL has had a Tiscali - remember
them? - email for ages after leaving them for plusnet and after an
interruption (temporary) of service a couple of years ago we set him up
with a gmail. He then slowly migrated his contacts over, with the view
that the tiscali email wasn't going to last forever.

Lo and behold, late last year he got an email from TalkTalk saying that
they will pull the tiscali emails from freeloaders. For a monthly fee an
address could be kept alive. He's going to pay for a couple of months
"just in case", but he should be able to sever it soon.

RMC's scenario isn't unusual.

[Chris]

You need to read up on password managers. Your passwords are not stored
on "someone else's computer". With my password manager (enpass)
everything is in my control and possession.

[Recliner]

Over the years, BT has pulled things that it used to provide as part of its
ISP service, such as news group and Flickr Pro membership. I think it also
used to provide web space at one time.

[brightside]

Ditto with KeePass. It is set up such that I don't even know any of
the passwords I use to sign onto apps / sites, but could easily find
any one, for my many logins (over 60 at present), each with a
different ID.

--
brightside S9

[MissRiaElaine]

On 23/01/2020 16:28, brightside wrote:

> Ditto with KeePass. It is set up such that I don't even know any of
> the passwords I use to sign onto apps / sites, but could easily find
> any one, for my many logins (over 60 at present), each with a
> different ID.

I just use a spreadsheet with all the randomly generated passwords
listed. I can then cut and paste the one I want. The file is password
protected by a master password. Ok so some will say that spreadsheet
passwords are easily crackable, maybe so, but it's only stored on a USB
stick which is plugged into the computer only when necessary. They'd
have to get at it and crack the password for the minute or so it's
plugged in.


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

[Chris]

MissRiaElaine <thisad...@invalid.com> wrote:
> On 23/01/2020 16:28, brightside wrote:
>
>> Ditto with KeePass. It is set up such that I don't even know any of
>> the passwords I use to sign onto apps / sites, but could easily find
>> any one, for my many logins (over 60 at present), each with a
>> different ID.
>
> I just use a spreadsheet with all the randomly generated passwords
> listed. I can then cut and paste the one I want. The file is password
> protected by a master password. Ok so some will say that spreadsheet
> passwords are easily crackable, maybe so, but it's only stored on a USB
> stick which is plugged into the computer only when necessary. They'd
> have to get at it and crack the password for the minute or so it's
> plugged in.

Do you have a backup? USB sticks are easy to lose and can fail.

[Roderick Stewart]

On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 14:35:12 +0000, Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> A password manager would make that easy.
>>
>> Easy for whom? To do what?
>>
>> The more I think of the notion of all my passwords being stored in one
>> place on someone else's computer, the more I think that the best
>> "password manager" is a list that regardless of its format - paper,
>> electronic file, carved stone tablet etc - is kept only by me.
>
>You need to read up on password managers. Your passwords are not stored
>on "someone else's computer". With my password manager (enpass)
>everything is in my control and possession.

If you mean that it would store all my passwords on my own computer to
save me the trouble of remembering them and typing them in every time
I want to access something, I can already do this with Firefox, and in
addition if I want to I can set a master password so nobody can see
its stored list. For backup it's also possible to maintain a simple
text file (but not titled "passwords" of course) and good oldfashioned
paper and ink still work as well as they ever did.

I have read about password managers, but nothing yet to convince me
that they can do anything I can't do already.

Rod.

[Bob Henson]

On 24/01/2020 9.01 am, Roderick Stewart wrote:

> I have read about password managers, but nothing yet to convince me
> that they can do anything I can't do already.

That's a hell of a brain you have. I have 330 passwords all 12 random
characters long in my password manager - and I can only remember one or
two of them without assistance.


--
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK

[R. Mark Clayton]

If my car has a flat tire I fix it, I don't scrap the car. Same for my ISP, except of course it is BT who need to fix their email.

[Chris]

Roderick Stewart <rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 14:35:12 +0000, Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> A password manager would make that easy.
>>>
>>> Easy for whom? To do what?
>>>
>>> The more I think of the notion of all my passwords being stored in one
>>> place on someone else's computer, the more I think that the best
>>> "password manager" is a list that regardless of its format - paper,
>>> electronic file, carved stone tablet etc - is kept only by me.
>>
>> You need to read up on password managers. Your passwords are not stored
>> on "someone else's computer". With my password manager (enpass)
>> everything is in my control and possession.
>
> If you mean that it would store all my passwords on my own computer to
> save me the trouble of remembering them and typing them in every time
> I want to access something, I can already do this with Firefox, and in
> addition if I want to I can set a master password so nobody can see
> its stored list.

Yes. It does all that, plus

* it is not restricted to only Firefox
* can store information they isn't just username + password e.g. recovery
questions
* can return subsets of a password as seems to be the wont of bank logins
these days - when you've got a 30 character password finding the 18th one
is a pain
* you can choose to sync across all devices you have (PCs, phones, tablets)
using the sync method of your choice
* automatic and continuous backups
* it generates strong passwords based on yours or the website's criteria
e.g. pronounceable ones or only numbers and letters or specific lengths

> For backup it's also possible to maintain a simple
> text file (but not titled "passwords" of course) and good oldfashioned
> paper and ink still work as well as they ever did.
>
> I have read about password managers, but nothing yet to convince me
> that they can do anything I can't do already.

They aren't magic, but they do remove a huge amount of the "faff factor"
and allow me to use my brain cells on something more fun.

[Java Jive]

On 24/01/2020 18:04, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>
> If my car has a flat tire I fix it, I don't scrap the car. Same for my ISP, except of course it is BT who need to fix their email.

But if your car needs a spare part unique to the manufacturer, and they
have stopped making them, and you can't get one from scrap, then you
have to junk the car!

[Recliner]

R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 22:41:58 UTC, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 22/01/2020 20:10, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 18:24:44 UTC, Chris wrote:
>>>> R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 08:58:59 UTC, Chris wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/01/2020 20:29, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, 21 January 2020 15:13:04 UTC, bert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> How many hundreds of contacts use my current email address. How many
>>>>> dozens of authentifications are tied to it as well?
>>>>
>>>> You should know that.
>>>>
>>>> It is a pain, but it is doable with a managed transition over a few months.
>>>> You only need to do it once and then you'll be in complete control and not
>>>> at the mercy of BT's ineptitude.
>>
>> +1 to having your own domain.
>>
>>>>> A lot more annoying than albeit irritating current situation.
>>>>
>>>> Then stop complaining about it on here. You have the solution, but are
>>>> unprepared to use it.
>>>
>>> I have a sore leg too, but I ain't going to amputate it.
>>
>> But you don't come complaining about it here, and then refuse to
>> amputate it. If you're not prepared to follow the solutions offered,
>> stop moaning about it!.
>
> If my car has a flat tire I fix it, I don't scrap the car. Same for my
> ISP, except of course it is BT who need to fix their email.
>

With BT, it's generally safe to assume that things won't get better. Email
is simply no longer a core offering feom an ISP. When I switched from BT,
my new ISP simply doesn't offer an email service. It just provides a very
fast, very reliable data service and VoIP phone socket. No email, no cloud
storage, no news group server, no anti-virus, no POTS line, etc.

[Roderick Stewart]

On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 09:23:17 +0000, Bob Henson
<robert....@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I have read about password managers, but nothing yet to convince me
>> that they can do anything I can't do already.
>
>
>That's a hell of a brain you have. I have 330 passwords all 12 random
>characters long in my password manager - and I can only remember one or
>two of them without assistance.

I didn't say I could remember them all without assistance. I was
considering the best kind of assistance to use.

I have indeed got a brain, but I don't waste its capabilities (such as
they are) trying to do things that a machine can do much better. It's
just that I'd rather it was my own machine than somebody else's
machine somewhere else on the internet.

Rod.

[Roderick Stewart]

On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 18:34:26 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> If you mean that it would store all my passwords on my own computer to
>> save me the trouble of remembering them and typing them in every time
>> I want to access something, I can already do this with Firefox, and in
>> addition if I want to I can set a master password so nobody can see
>> its stored list.
>
>Yes. It does all that, plus
>
>* it is not restricted to only Firefox
>* can store information they isn't just username + password e.g. recovery
>questions

So it's a sort of database - but where does it store its data? If it
stores it somewhere else on the internet then it presumably has to be
protected by a password itself, which is surely equivalent to using
the same password for everything - and it's on somebody else's server,
on the internet, which is bad.

If it's a database entirely on my own computer, then I can already
have the equivalent of that, even if it's only a simple text file with
the use of the F3 search function, or my web browser locally storing
the passwords I most commonly use.

>* can return subsets of a password as seems to be the wont of bank logins
>these days - when you've got a 30 character password finding the 18th one
>is a pain

Yes, I can see that a specialised application with that ability would
be slightly easier than a simple text file with F3 search, provided it
keeps all its data on my computer and not somebody else's.

>* you can choose to sync across all devices you have (PCs, phones, tablets)
>using the sync method of your choice

Ah. That implies that it must keep its data somewhere on the internet,
or at least occasionally communicate information about it. This
doesn't seem to me a good thing to do with sensitive personal
information such as *all* my passwords in one place.

>* automatic and continuous backups
>* it generates strong passwords based on yours or the website's criteria
>e.g. pronounceable ones or only numbers and letters or specific lengths

Yes, these are handy refinements, but pointless if the fundamental
security of the whole scheme is compromised by keeping sensitive data
somewhere "in the cloud".

I wonder if you have one of those litle emergency keysafes containing
a spare front door key attached to the wall near your front door?

Rod.

[bert]

In article <41912...@648dc63cd46d40478059de5acd12239f.invalid>, Ray
<amos-...@outlook.com> writes
>On 24 Jan 2020 at 18:04:27 GMT, ""R. Mark Clayton"" <notya...@gmail.com>

>Except you can't fix your ISP. And it's not their email. It's not even Yahoo
>any more.
>They dumped them years ago and moved to Critical Path, which is now
>Synchronoss.
><https://synchronoss.com/products/messaging/universal-messaging-suite/>
>
>
Well they started to dump Yahoo but as you see from the Subject Line of
this thread there are still many BT users still on Yahoo.
--
bert

[bert]

In article <449fde47-9979-41b0...@googlegroups.com>, R.
Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> writes

Well they haven't fixed it in the last 3 years or more so what makes you
think they might fix it now?
--
bert

[Chris]

Roderick Stewart <rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 18:34:26 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> If you mean that it would store all my passwords on my own computer to
>>> save me the trouble of remembering them and typing them in every time
>>> I want to access something, I can already do this with Firefox, and in
>>> addition if I want to I can set a master password so nobody can see
>>> its stored list.
>>
>> Yes. It does all that, plus
>>
>> * it is not restricted to only Firefox
>> * can store information they isn't just username + password e.g. recovery
>> questions
>
> So it's a sort of database - but where does it store its data?

Wherever you want. The default is on your local disk.

> If it
> stores it somewhere else on the internet then it presumably has to be
> protected by a password itself, which is surely equivalent to using
> the same password for everything - and it's on somebody else's server,
> on the internet, which is bad.

You do realise your computer is "on the internet", right? Does that make it
"bad"? If someone got remote access to your PC they could trawl it to find
your password file.

>
>> * you can choose to sync across all devices you have (PCs, phones, tablets)
>> using the sync method of your choice
>
> Ah. That implies that it must keep its data somewhere on the internet,
> or at least occasionally communicate information about it. This
> doesn't seem to me a good thing to do with sensitive personal
> information such as *all* my passwords in one place.

Did you see the bit that says "you can choose"? So the choice is completely
up to you and if do want to then you can choose any of the typical
providers: dropbox, icloud, box, onedrive, etc. Or you even select your own
server for some managers.

You have a master password, which is not stupidly limited to only 12
lowercase characters that some websites have. You set your own long and
difficult to guess password. The database file is heavily encrypted and the
password is hashed and salted. So even if someone knew your password they
couldn't unlock the database without the right salt. I know I've tried it
myself.

It is very secure as long as the master password is difficult to guess.

>
>> * automatic and continuous backups
>> * it generates strong passwords based on yours or the website's criteria
>> e.g. pronounceable ones or only numbers and letters or specific lengths
>
> Yes, these are handy refinements, but pointless if the fundamental
> security of the whole scheme is compromised by keeping sensitive data
> somewhere "in the cloud".

False premise.

>
> I wonder if you have one of those litle emergency keysafes containing
> a spare front door key attached to the wall near your front door?

No. I don't live in a holiday let. Why?