Warning about LLU
Uncle Nobby
attractive cost if they take up the option of subscribing to Internet and
voice services using their own network based on LLU. Customers however are
not told that, because the service is on the service provider's own network,
if they wish to transfer their service to an alternative supplier later it
is likely to cost them as much as £150 or more
steeler
"Uncle Nobby" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:45ef59cf.0@entanet...
What are you basing that figure on? BT charge to switch from an LLU ISP
back to an ADSL one is £45+VAT, most ISPs pass this on at cost. I can't
imagine moving to another LLU supplier or cable costs any more.
Uncle Nobby
"steeler" <nos...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:OGIHh.45801$bk4....@fe01.news.easynews.com...
The figures aren't mine, but from what I am aware is that you are not on the
BT IP stream network.
So if you change form a LLU to a non LLU supplier you have to pay for the
unhook from LLU and set up to BT IP stream, you can't do a straight migrate
hence the extra costs involved.
Eeyore
Uncle Nobby wrote:
> "steeler" <nos...@nomail.com> wrote in message
> > "Uncle Nobby" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> >
> >> LLU* (Local Loop Unbundling) ISPs present the customer with a very
> >> attractive cost if they take up the option of subscribing to Internet and
> >> voice services using their own network based on LLU. Customers however
> >> are not told that, because the service is on the service provider's own
> >> network, if they wish to transfer their service to an alternative
> >> supplier later it is likely to cost them as much as £150 or more
> >>
> >>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/2edtuw
> >
> > What are you basing that figure on? BT charge to switch from an LLU ISP
> > back to an ADSL one is £45+VAT, most ISPs pass this on at cost. I can't
> > imagine moving to another LLU supplier or cable costs any more.
>
> The figures aren't mine, but from what I am aware is that you are not on the
> BT IP stream network.
> So if you change form a LLU to a non LLU supplier you have to pay for the
> unhook from LLU and set up to BT IP stream, you can't do a straight migrate
> hence the extra costs involved.
No.
The worst situation in the past was a cease and reprovide which costs about £47.
I've had an LLU MAC to move from Plusnet's LLU provider (Tiscali) back to a BT
based ISP and it went just fine.
The new Ofcom rules for migration mean AIUI that there should be no
restrictions. Not all ISPs accept LLU MACs though. You may have to settle for a
decent one instead of a cheap and nasty one.
You may of course find yourself locked into a long contract with an LLU
provided. The term "caveat emptor" covers that.
Graham
Uncle Nobby
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45EFD56A...@hotmail.com...
You may have had a good experience but from forums and broadband sites it
isn't typical.
I have seen where many ISP's wouldn't accept a MAC from a LLU, it may have
changed now with the new regulations.
I have read that changing from on IP stream provider to another was a simple
operation, however changing from LLU to IP stream isn't, relatively, hence
the cost.
NoNeedToKnow
>The new Ofcom rules for migration mean AIUI that there should be no
>restrictions. Not all ISPs accept LLU MACs though.
There's been (or will be, cannot remember the date of implementation) a
change such that a 'cease' has a fee attached, whereas it was free in
the years up to 2006. It makes sense, in a way, because it reverses
the 'activation' (though why they didn't just force the activation
to have a portion set aside for cancellation, and get interest on
it for all the years it will sit in a BTW account, I don't know!)
So now/in future a cease and new activation will cost something like
35 (+VAT?) + 35 (+VAT) (or whatever the figures are, not just 40+VAT
or a small migration fee, something like 11.00 +VAT, which many ISPs
absorb anyway).
Paul Cupis
1st May.
steeler
"Uncle Nobby" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
I am not disagreeing with any of that. Merely that I believe that the
connection charge if they refuse the LLU MAC is around the £50 mark.
Eeyore
Uncle Nobby wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > Uncle Nobby wrote:
> >
> >> So if you change form a LLU to a non LLU supplier you have to pay for the
> >> unhook from LLU and set up to BT IP stream, you can't do a straight
> >> migrate hence the extra costs involved.
> >
> > No.
>
> You may have had a good experience
I wouldn't say that about my LLU connection !
> but from forums and broadband sites it isn't typical.
> I have seen where many ISP's wouldn't accept a MAC from a LLU
That's what I already said but you snipped it ! Why did you do that ?
> it may have changed now with the new regulations. I have read that changing
> from on IP stream provider to another was a simple operation, however changing
> from LLU to IP stream isn't, relatively, hence the cost.
Wrong. There's no difference at all. Provided your 'new' ISP accepts LLU MACS.
That excludes most of the shitty ones though. That may disappoint you since it
seems you want to have to have something to complain about.
Graham
Eeyore
NoNeedToKnow wrote:
> On 08 Mar 2007, Eeyore <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >The new Ofcom rules for migration mean AIUI that there should be no
> >restrictions. Not all ISPs accept LLU MACs though.
>
> There's been (or will be, cannot remember the date of implementation) a
> change such that a 'cease' has a fee attached, whereas it was free in
> the years up to 2006. It makes sense, in a way, because it reverses
> the 'activation'
Do tell exactly what part of the word "sense" you had in mind when you typed
that !
Precisely why there should be *any* activation or cease fee puzzles me.
Since when did you have to pay for someone to stop providing anything ?
Graham
PlusNet Support Team
The connection charge to the ISP of moving a broadband service from LLU to
IPStream/Datastream is £40+VAT whether they use a MAC key or not, of
course without the MAC there's usually at least a week's downtime. If they
use a fully unbundled connection (voice and broadband) then on top of that
they would have to arrange for the voice transfer as well, but I'm not
sure on the exact cost of that off-hand but should be listed on
www.btwholesale.com
The reason for the cost for an LLU transfer via a MAC of £40+VAT as
opposed to the IPStream to IPStream MAC transfer of £11+VAT is because the
former involves exchange work and is in effect the same as a new
activation whereas the latter can be done via the automated systems.
--
| Dave Tomlinson Broadband Solutions For
| Customer Support for Home & Business
| PlusNet plc @ http://www.plus.net
+ ----- My Referrals - It pays to recommend PlusNet -----
Paul Cupis
Openreach charge BTwholesale (well, all LLU operators) to un-jumper the
line at the exchange. BTwholesale will start passing this charge on to
their customers (ISPs) from May. Whether ISPs pass this onto their
endusers is down to the individual ISP.
Uncle Nobby
No I'm not complaining, just pointing out the article.
From what I have seen on forums often there are problems with getting a MAC
and having it accepted when moving from LLU to IP Stream.
NoNeedToKnow
>NoNeedToKnow wrote:
>
>> On 08 Mar 2007, Eeyore <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >The new Ofcom rules for migration mean AIUI that there should be no
>> >restrictions. Not all ISPs accept LLU MACs though.
>>
>> There's been (or will be, cannot remember the date of implementation) a
>> change such that a 'cease' has a fee attached, whereas it was free in
>> the years up to 2006. It makes sense, in a way, because it reverses
>> the 'activation'
>Do tell exactly what part of the word "sense" you had in mind when you typed
>that !
So engineer time at the exchange comes free does it (for activation, and for
a cease). I don't agree with the level of the fee, but don't see why you'd
get something set up free (and similarly, cancelled, though it was nice
while it lasted). I guess you wrote before thinking much about what
is actioned.
>Precisely why there should be *any* activation or cease fee puzzles me.
>
>Since when did you have to pay for someone to stop providing anything ?
When it requires action to be taken to make a port on the DSLAM available
for another customer to use. If the connection is left in place, on the
assumption that every ADSL user will stay an ADSL user forever, it will
end up with a number of the ports being unused - makes no sense.