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BBC Watchdog - Hundreds report being let down by Openreach
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CJB
Oct 31, 2013, 8:37:01 PM10/31/13
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BBC Watchdog - Hundreds report being let down by Openreach
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/features/bt-open-reach-customer-service
If you need a phone line installed or repaired most of the time Openreach are the only ones who can do it for you. This means that if anything goes wrong you’re entirely at their mercy.
Published 30 October 2013:
The company’s slogan sums up their task perfectly: ‘Keeping the Nation Connected’. But hundreds of you have told us how you’ve been let down by the company leaving you with no phone and broadband. Sometimes for weeks if not months.
That’s what happened to Talk Talk customer Angela Jones.
Both of her services failed completely in August. She told us: ‘They informed me first of all that within 48 hours they would carry out some tests, and then hopefully the phone line would be fixed.’
But when Angela noticed that nothing had changed she used her mobile to repeatedly call Talk Talk. They told her the problem wasn’t with them but with the line that goes into her house.
Openreach are responsible for this but the company will not allow customers to complain to them directly. In fact as customers you can’t contact them at all.
It’s set down in law that customers can only deal with their providers, which means Angela had no choice but to keep ringing TalkTalk to find out about Openreach’s progress.
Angela explained: ‘I didn’t feel we were getting anywhere. Every time I saw a BT Openreach van in the area I almost wanted to go out and ask them: “are you coming to fix my phone?” because it was just so frustrating.’
After a month had passed an engineer came out and told Angela that some cabling had decayed and that the repair job would be a long one.
Powerless to do anything Angela had no choice but to sit and wait. But what she didn’t know was that she wasn’t the only one waiting on Openreach.
Around 14 families on her street were without a phone connection or broadband.
A wide array of service providers served the residents and all of them said exactly the same thing. They were powerless to do anything because Openreach was to blame.
Eventually the residents decided enough was enough.
Unable to contact the company themselves they put together a petition and took it to their local MP, Liam Fox. He took the case on directly petitioning Openreach on their behalf.
After two months without landlines or broadband the repair work was finally carried out and their service was returned.
But what about those people who haven’t got the time or political collateral to take Openreach on?
BT Retail customer Darren Glen has now been without a reliable phone or broadband connection for four months.
But even though BT and Openreach are part of the same company it isn’t any easier to get answers.
Darren told us: ‘I have to go through BT. I can’t go through Openreach because they are a separate contracted company to BT and I’m not allowed to talk to them.
‘I reckon we’ve probably called BT two to three hundred times. We’ve had six so-say engineer visits. Only three attended.
‘They came back to us and said that there was a break in the line out on the main road. And nobody but nobody has come out and replaced the cable.’
Openreach have told BT that they’re waiting for council permission to work in the road before repairs can take place.
But to Darren this feels like just another excuse.
‘I think it’s disgraceful because I’m still told by BT I have to pay for my broadband, I have to pay for my telephone line and I get nothing.'
And there are many other people across the country that are just as unhappy with the level of service they’ve received from Openreach. At one point last year it took the company 27 days on average to install a new line.
Ofcom, the telecoms regulator, has launched a review of Openreach's quality of service and is expected to impose tougher standards on the company.
The report is due to conclude next year and was prompted not by complaints made from customers but from other service providers.
The hope is that this tougher stance from Ofcom will ensure that more is done for customers like Darren and the street affected in Portishead - to hold Openreach to their promise of ‘Keeping the Nation Connected’.
But until then most of us remain totally dependent on Openreach doing their job.
Company Response
A SPOKESPERSON FOR OPENREACH SAYS:
Openreach would like to apologise to all of the people featured in the report.
We recognise that it took far too long to resolve these faults and we appreciate that losing telephone and internet services is a considerable inconvenience.
Our engineers carry out more than 160,000 jobs every week with very few issues. The average time to fix even the most complex faults is just over 3 days but sometimes we find extreme cases that need more investigation, planning and civil engineering work. We also need local authority approval to dig up roads, so these cases can take a lot longer to resolve.
We are constantly working to improve how we manage these issues and we have also carried out a full investigation into the cases featured. We believe these actions will lead to improvements in the services we provide to all communication providers and their customers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/features/bt-open-reach-customer-service
If you need a phone line installed or repaired most of the time Openreach are the only ones who can do it for you. This means that if anything goes wrong you’re entirely at their mercy.
Published 30 October 2013:
The company’s slogan sums up their task perfectly: ‘Keeping the Nation Connected’. But hundreds of you have told us how you’ve been let down by the company leaving you with no phone and broadband. Sometimes for weeks if not months.
That’s what happened to Talk Talk customer Angela Jones.
Both of her services failed completely in August. She told us: ‘They informed me first of all that within 48 hours they would carry out some tests, and then hopefully the phone line would be fixed.’
But when Angela noticed that nothing had changed she used her mobile to repeatedly call Talk Talk. They told her the problem wasn’t with them but with the line that goes into her house.
Openreach are responsible for this but the company will not allow customers to complain to them directly. In fact as customers you can’t contact them at all.
It’s set down in law that customers can only deal with their providers, which means Angela had no choice but to keep ringing TalkTalk to find out about Openreach’s progress.
Angela explained: ‘I didn’t feel we were getting anywhere. Every time I saw a BT Openreach van in the area I almost wanted to go out and ask them: “are you coming to fix my phone?” because it was just so frustrating.’
After a month had passed an engineer came out and told Angela that some cabling had decayed and that the repair job would be a long one.
Powerless to do anything Angela had no choice but to sit and wait. But what she didn’t know was that she wasn’t the only one waiting on Openreach.
Around 14 families on her street were without a phone connection or broadband.
A wide array of service providers served the residents and all of them said exactly the same thing. They were powerless to do anything because Openreach was to blame.
Eventually the residents decided enough was enough.
Unable to contact the company themselves they put together a petition and took it to their local MP, Liam Fox. He took the case on directly petitioning Openreach on their behalf.
After two months without landlines or broadband the repair work was finally carried out and their service was returned.
But what about those people who haven’t got the time or political collateral to take Openreach on?
BT Retail customer Darren Glen has now been without a reliable phone or broadband connection for four months.
But even though BT and Openreach are part of the same company it isn’t any easier to get answers.
Darren told us: ‘I have to go through BT. I can’t go through Openreach because they are a separate contracted company to BT and I’m not allowed to talk to them.
‘I reckon we’ve probably called BT two to three hundred times. We’ve had six so-say engineer visits. Only three attended.
‘They came back to us and said that there was a break in the line out on the main road. And nobody but nobody has come out and replaced the cable.’
Openreach have told BT that they’re waiting for council permission to work in the road before repairs can take place.
But to Darren this feels like just another excuse.
‘I think it’s disgraceful because I’m still told by BT I have to pay for my broadband, I have to pay for my telephone line and I get nothing.'
And there are many other people across the country that are just as unhappy with the level of service they’ve received from Openreach. At one point last year it took the company 27 days on average to install a new line.
Ofcom, the telecoms regulator, has launched a review of Openreach's quality of service and is expected to impose tougher standards on the company.
The report is due to conclude next year and was prompted not by complaints made from customers but from other service providers.
The hope is that this tougher stance from Ofcom will ensure that more is done for customers like Darren and the street affected in Portishead - to hold Openreach to their promise of ‘Keeping the Nation Connected’.
But until then most of us remain totally dependent on Openreach doing their job.
Company Response
A SPOKESPERSON FOR OPENREACH SAYS:
Openreach would like to apologise to all of the people featured in the report.
We recognise that it took far too long to resolve these faults and we appreciate that losing telephone and internet services is a considerable inconvenience.
Our engineers carry out more than 160,000 jobs every week with very few issues. The average time to fix even the most complex faults is just over 3 days but sometimes we find extreme cases that need more investigation, planning and civil engineering work. We also need local authority approval to dig up roads, so these cases can take a lot longer to resolve.
We are constantly working to improve how we manage these issues and we have also carried out a full investigation into the cases featured. We believe these actions will lead to improvements in the services we provide to all communication providers and their customers.
Woody
Nov 1, 2013, 3:57:37 AM11/1/13
to
"CJB" <chris...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e810bf82-f4df-46ec...@googlegroups.com...
Dig up roads? Load of blx. Pretty well all cables laid in the
last fifty years are in pipes, formerly earthenware but nowadays
plastic. We are talking a cable of one inch or much less diameter
in a four or five inch pipe, so even if the pipe has moved or
cracked it should still be possible to get another cable through.
On top of that fibre optic cameras are now widely available so if
they think there is a problem with the duct it should be
relatively quick and easy to confirm. All of these checks should
have been done <before> any approach to the local authority to
dig up the road.
More to the point - which of course was conveniently missed from
the report - is that Openreach these days do little or no digging
themselves but rather contract it out. The longer they can put
such work off the less they have to spend money ultimately
affecting the bottom line - which is what it is really all about.
They also missed the point that whilst the affected customers had
to (contractually) keep paying for a service they are not
receiving they would be able to claim a refund when it is all
fixed - or take their provider to the Small Claims Court. What
was not said is that it is up to the customer to initiate that
claim; even if you are a direct BT customer they will not refund
automatically which given that they have the data easily
available is outrageous.
--
Woody
harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
news:e810bf82-f4df-46ec...@googlegroups.com...
last fifty years are in pipes, formerly earthenware but nowadays
plastic. We are talking a cable of one inch or much less diameter
in a four or five inch pipe, so even if the pipe has moved or
cracked it should still be possible to get another cable through.
On top of that fibre optic cameras are now widely available so if
they think there is a problem with the duct it should be
relatively quick and easy to confirm. All of these checks should
have been done <before> any approach to the local authority to
dig up the road.
More to the point - which of course was conveniently missed from
the report - is that Openreach these days do little or no digging
themselves but rather contract it out. The longer they can put
such work off the less they have to spend money ultimately
affecting the bottom line - which is what it is really all about.
They also missed the point that whilst the affected customers had
to (contractually) keep paying for a service they are not
receiving they would be able to claim a refund when it is all
fixed - or take their provider to the Small Claims Court. What
was not said is that it is up to the customer to initiate that
claim; even if you are a direct BT customer they will not refund
automatically which given that they have the data easily
available is outrageous.
--
Woody
harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
Rupert Moss-Eccardt
Nov 1, 2013, 5:06:12 AM11/1/13
to
Woody wrote:
> "CJB" <chris...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e810bf82-f4df-46ec...@googlegroups.com...
> BBC Watchdog - Hundreds report being let down by Openreach
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/features/bt-open-reach-customer-service
>
[snip]
> "CJB" <chris...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e810bf82-f4df-46ec...@googlegroups.com...
> BBC Watchdog - Hundreds report being let down by Openreach
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/features/bt-open-reach-customer-service
>
>
>
>
> Dig up roads? Load of blx. Pretty well all cables laid in the
> last fifty years are in pipes, formerly earthenware but nowadays
> plastic. We are talking a cable of one inch or much less diameter
> in a four or five inch pipe, so even if the pipe has moved or
> cracked it should still be possible to get another cable through.
> On top of that fibre optic cameras are now widely available so if
> they think there is a problem with the duct it should be
> relatively quick and easy to confirm. All of these checks should
> have been done <before> any approach to the local authority to
> dig up the road.
>
> More to the point - which of course was conveniently missed from
> the report - is that Openreach these days do little or no digging
> themselves but rather contract it out. The longer they can put
> such work off the less they have to spend money ultimately
> affecting the bottom line - which is what it is really all about.
>
1.) Please learn to trim when you reply. There was no reason to include
>
>
> Dig up roads? Load of blx. Pretty well all cables laid in the
> last fifty years are in pipes, formerly earthenware but nowadays
> plastic. We are talking a cable of one inch or much less diameter
> in a four or five inch pipe, so even if the pipe has moved or
> cracked it should still be possible to get another cable through.
> On top of that fibre optic cameras are now widely available so if
> they think there is a problem with the duct it should be
> relatively quick and easy to confirm. All of these checks should
> have been done <before> any approach to the local authority to
> dig up the road.
>
> More to the point - which of course was conveniently missed from
> the report - is that Openreach these days do little or no digging
> themselves but rather contract it out. The longer they can put
> such work off the less they have to spend money ultimately
> affecting the bottom line - which is what it is really all about.
>
the whole of the article again.
2.) There is plenty of digging going on. At pinch points such as river
and rail crossings, many ducts are full. The problem is particularly
acute but rare where the transmission network shares with the access
network.
3.) Stuffing anything down an old duct with failing wrapping can move a
problem from three subs being offline to dozens. So care needs to be taken.
Martin Brown
Nov 1, 2013, 5:08:02 AM11/1/13
to
On 01/11/2013 00:37, CJB wrote:
> BBC Watchdog - Hundreds report being let down by Openreach
>
We have the same problem in our village. Openreach typically break one
> BBC Watchdog - Hundreds report being let down by Openreach
>
existing ADSL line for every two they try to mend and at one point were
so far out of control that they had to bus engineers in from Lancashire!
Some friends were off for a couple of months and one had a phone that
wouldn't ring or make outgoing calls.
> A SPOKESPERSON FOR OPENREACH SAYS:
>
> Openreach would like to apologise to all of the people featured in the report.
>
> We recognise that it took far too long to resolve these faults and we appreciate that losing telephone and internet services is a considerable inconvenience.
>
> Our engineers carry out more than 160,000 jobs every week with very few issues. The average time to fix even the most complex faults is just over 3 days but sometimes we find extreme cases that need more investigation, planning and civil engineering work. We also need local authority approval to dig up roads, so these cases can take a lot longer to resolve.
>
> We are constantly working to improve how we manage these issues and we have also carried out a full investigation into the cases featured. We believe these actions will lead to improvements in the services we provide to all communication providers and their customers.
>
compensation if they fail to fix your landline within a fortnight or so.
That was with BT. Dunno what the small print says for other ISPs.
It is only worth claiming it for sheer devilment value.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
tigger
Nov 1, 2013, 7:38:05 AM11/1/13
to
Rupert Moss-Eccardt writted thus:
> Woody wrote:
>> "CJB" <chris...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:e810bf82-f4df-46ec...@googlegroups.com...
>> BBC Watchdog - Hundreds report being let down by Openreach
>>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/features/bt-open-reach-
customer-service
>>
> [snip]
>>
this instance as it rendered the text readable....
--
http://db.tt/aI6WBZ7w
> Woody wrote:
>> "CJB" <chris...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:e810bf82-f4df-46ec...@googlegroups.com...
>> BBC Watchdog - Hundreds report being let down by Openreach
>>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/features/bt-open-reach-
customer-service
>>
> [snip]
>>
> 1.) Please learn to trim when you reply. There was no reason to include
> the whole of the article again.
As the OP had poorly formatted the message I welcome the inclusion in
> the whole of the article again.
this instance as it rendered the text readable....
--
http://db.tt/aI6WBZ7w
Dave
Nov 1, 2013, 9:54:09 AM11/1/13
to
Woody submitted this idea :
estate that was built in 1968 and all telephone cables here are
steel-wire armoured, buried directly in the ground, no duct. If the
council resurface a footpath then BT take the opportunity to uplift the
plant and install ducting etc., but that's not very often.
There is so much wrong with your post and so much you obviously don't
know that it would take me hours to explain it all and type it out, and
I just don't have the time but, as a BT cable jointer with over 18
years of service before an injury saw me medically retired, take it
from me that you are so far off the mark it's unreal.
> "CJB" <chris...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e810bf82-f4df-46ec...@googlegroups.com...
> BBC Watchdog - Hundreds report being let down by Openreach
>
> news:e810bf82-f4df-46ec...@googlegroups.com...
> BBC Watchdog - Hundreds report being let down by Openreach
>
> Dig up roads? Load of blx. Pretty well all cables laid in the last fifty
> years are in pipes, formerly earthenware but nowadays plastic. We are talking
> a cable of one inch or much less diameter in a four or five inch pipe, so
> even if the pipe has moved or cracked it should still be possible to get
> another cable through. On top of that fibre optic cameras are now widely
> available so if they think there is a problem with the duct it should be
> relatively quick and easy to confirm. All of these checks should have been
> done <before> any approach to the local authority to dig up the road.
The only one talking bollocks here Woody is you. I live on a housing
> years are in pipes, formerly earthenware but nowadays plastic. We are talking
> a cable of one inch or much less diameter in a four or five inch pipe, so
> even if the pipe has moved or cracked it should still be possible to get
> another cable through. On top of that fibre optic cameras are now widely
> available so if they think there is a problem with the duct it should be
> relatively quick and easy to confirm. All of these checks should have been
> done <before> any approach to the local authority to dig up the road.
estate that was built in 1968 and all telephone cables here are
steel-wire armoured, buried directly in the ground, no duct. If the
council resurface a footpath then BT take the opportunity to uplift the
plant and install ducting etc., but that's not very often.
There is so much wrong with your post and so much you obviously don't
know that it would take me hours to explain it all and type it out, and
I just don't have the time but, as a BT cable jointer with over 18
years of service before an injury saw me medically retired, take it
from me that you are so far off the mark it's unreal.
Woody
Nov 1, 2013, 1:43:16 PM11/1/13
to
"Dave" <no...@needed.com> wrote in message
news:i8adnSQxdNnkL-7P...@bt.com...
Must have been a bad area. I lived in a new 'village' near
Cambridge built in 1969 and everything was in ducts, as it was in
the estate I moved to in Yorks in 1979 but built in 1969 as well.
I now live on a roadn which still has telegraph poles but only
last week I say a manhole open and the cable was ducted, so I
would suggest you are wrong to apply such an broad brush.
But that is your choice as were my comments - with experie
--
Woody
harrogate three at ntlworld dot comnce I would add.
news:i8adnSQxdNnkL-7P...@bt.com...
Cambridge built in 1969 and everything was in ducts, as it was in
the estate I moved to in Yorks in 1979 but built in 1969 as well.
I now live on a roadn which still has telegraph poles but only
last week I say a manhole open and the cable was ducted, so I
would suggest you are wrong to apply such an broad brush.
But that is your choice as were my comments - with experie
--
Woody
harrogate three at ntlworld dot comnce I would add.
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