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Plusnet DNS settings tip

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Tim+

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Dec 13, 2017, 8:24:46 AM12/13/17
to
We’ve had Plusnet FTTC for over a year now and whilst things seem to stream
okay, general web browsing has always progressed in fits and starts. It
never seemed much (if any) better than when we had an ADSL connection.

I read elsewhere about using Google’s DNS servers so I thought I’d have a
go at changing mine. Unfortunately my Technicolour router’s DNS settings
seem uneditable but from this site I was able to change the private LAN DNS
settings.

https://uno.help/knowledge-base/article/how-to-change-dns-on-a-technicolor-tg582n

Please don’t ask me to explain any of this as it’s way over my head BUT
since setting up my primary DNS as 8.8.8.8 and secondary as 8.8.4.4 web
browsing is vastly improved.

Note that this doesn’t seem to change the DNS setting visible on the “home
screen” of the router’s internet settings.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls

7

unread,
Dec 13, 2017, 10:21:04 AM12/13/17
to
Chronos wrote:

> On 13 Dec 2017 13:24:44 GMT
> Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Please don’t ask me to explain any of this as it’s way over my head
>> BUT since setting up my primary DNS as 8.8.8.8 and secondary as
>> 8.8.4.4 web browsing is vastly improved.
>
> The problem with letting Google provide your DNS is that they then have
> a record of every host you request.

As opposed to BT (British Telecum) DNS servers which uses deep packet
inspection to deliver ads.

The thing with google DNS is less benign in that they can use it
to deliver ads that users click on - but your IP address can change
and so this kind of targeted delivery is somewhat hit and miss.
(They can get passed it with cookies and deeply embedded cookies
that not even switching to something like
Linux OS can remove without some difficulty.)

But not if you are using BT (British Telecum) DNS servers,
because they know who you are even if your IP address changes.

Thank goodness I only watch furniture p0rn.
Big long benches mounting small chairs turns me on really badly.
Happy to report no furniture police activity in local area
after using google DNS servers (TM).
The removals men did come down a few months ago and went for my
neighbour, but I think that was only down to me using
his IP address temporarily.

Plusnet Support Team

unread,
Dec 13, 2017, 10:22:45 AM12/13/17
to
What you're seeing is less likely due to Google's servers being more
responsive than ours, and more likely the result of you removing the
router's DNS proxy from the equation when performing lookups.

i.e. before, you were doing this for each lookup:

client device > router > plusnet DNS resolver

Now, because you've told the router to assign Google's DNS to each
client directly (rather than have proxy requests through the router),
you're doing this:

client device > google DNS resolver

You'll probably find you have equal success assigning two of Plusnet's
resolvers in the same way:

212.159.6.9
212.159.6.10
212.159.13.49
212.159.13.50

So it becomes:

client device > plusnet DNS resolver

Our DNS servers are without a doubt physically closer to you than
Google's (from a routing perspective).

As an aside, you *can* change the DNS settings used by the router,
however it needs to be done using telnet and the CLI -
https://community.plus.net/t5/Library/How-to-change-the-default-DNS-Servers-in-a-Thomson-Router/ba-p/1322317

--
|Bob Pullen Broadband Solutions for
|Support Home & Business @
|Plusnet Plc. www.plus.net
+--------------- twitter.com/plusnet ----------------

Graham J

unread,
Dec 13, 2017, 10:44:12 AM12/13/17
to
Plusnet Support Team wrote:
> On 13/12/2017 13:24, Tim+ wrote:
>> We’ve had Plusnet FTTC for over a year now and whilst things seem to stream
>> okay, general web browsing has always progressed in fits and starts. It
>> never seemed much (if any) better than when we had an ADSL connection.
>>
>> I read elsewhere about using Google’s DNS servers so I thought I’d have a
>> go at changing mine. Unfortunately my Technicolour router’s DNS settings
>> seem uneditable but from this site I was able to change the private LAN DNS
>> settings.
>>
>> https://uno.help/knowledge-base/article/how-to-change-dns-on-a-technicolor-tg582n
>>
>> Please don’t ask me to explain any of this as it’s way over my head BUT
>> since setting up my primary DNS as 8.8.8.8 and secondary as 8.8.4.4 web
>> browsing is vastly improved.
>>
>> Note that this doesn’t seem to change the DNS setting visible on the “home
>> screen” of the router’s internet settings.
>
> What you're seeing is less likely due to Google's servers being more
> responsive than ours, and more likely the result of you removing the
> router's DNS proxy from the equation when performing lookups.
>
> i.e. before, you were doing this for each lookup:
>
> client device > router > plusnet DNS resolver
>
[snip]

The router's DNS proxy must be terribly slow!

Surely in principle a DNS proxy should be a "good thing" in that it
could cache recent DNS requests thereby speeding up lookups. In
principle it could also work with the router's DHCP service to store the
names of devices on the LAN - something that many users here complain
that even apparently quite sophisticated routers don't actually achieve.

So please explain why the router's DNS proxy is so slow.

Thanks.

--
Graham J


Andy Burns

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Dec 13, 2017, 10:50:57 AM12/13/17
to
Graham J wrote:

> So please explain why the router's DNS proxy is so slow.

Home routers tend to not have much RAM, and flash memory (if they
permanently store results, probably not) is slow for writes, you could
benchmark various DNS servers

<https://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm>

Chris Green

unread,
Dec 13, 2017, 11:33:04 AM12/13/17
to
Graham J <gra...@invalid.com> wrote:
> Plusnet Support Team wrote:
> > On 13/12/2017 13:24, Tim+ wrote:
> >> We’ve had Plusnet FTTC for over a year now and whilst things seem to stream
> >> okay, general web browsing has always progressed in fits and starts. It
> >> never seemed much (if any) better than when we had an ADSL connection.
> >>
> >> I read elsewhere about using Google’s DNS servers so I thought I’d have a
> >> go at changing mine. Unfortunately my Technicolour router’s DNS settings
> >> seem uneditable but from this site I was able to change the private LAN DNS
> >> settings.
> >>
> >> https://uno.help/knowledge-base/article/how-to-change-dns-on-a-technicolor-tg582n
> >>
> >> Please don’t ask me to explain any of this as it’s way over my head BUT
> >> since setting up my primary DNS as 8.8.8.8 and secondary as 8.8.4.4 web
> >> browsing is vastly improved.
> >>
> >> Note that this doesn’t seem to change the DNS setting visible on the “home
> >> screen” of the router’s internet settings.
> >
> > What you're seeing is less likely due to Google's servers being more
> > responsive than ours, and more likely the result of you removing the
> > router's DNS proxy from the equation when performing lookups.
> >
> > i.e. before, you were doing this for each lookup:
> >
> > client device > router > plusnet DNS resolver
> >
> [snip]
>
> The router's DNS proxy must be terribly slow!
>
That's what I was thinking! The whole point of a local DNS proxy is
to cache 'well known' DNS and serve it more quickly that you'd get
going out to external DNS servers all the time.


> Surely in principle a DNS proxy should be a "good thing" in that it
> could cache recent DNS requests thereby speeding up lookups. In
> principle it could also work with the router's DHCP service to store the
> names of devices on the LAN - something that many users here complain
> that even apparently quite sophisticated routers don't actually achieve.
>
That's (sort of) a separate issue. Most home routers *do* cache DNS
and provide DHCP services but don't save names for local devices.


> So please explain why the router's DNS proxy is so slow.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Graham J
>
>

--
Chris Green
·

Tim+

unread,
Dec 13, 2017, 11:49:44 AM12/13/17
to
Plusnet Support Team <sup...@plus.net> wrote:
> On 13/12/2017 13:24, Tim+ wrote:
>> We’ve had Plusnet FTTC for over a year now and whilst things seem to stream
>> okay, general web browsing has always progressed in fits and starts. It
>> never seemed much (if any) better than when we had an ADSL connection.
>>
>> I read elsewhere about using Google’s DNS servers so I thought I’d have a
>> go at changing mine. Unfortunately my Technicolour router’s DNS settings
>> seem uneditable but from this site I was able to change the private LAN DNS
>> settings.
>>
>> https://uno.help/knowledge-base/article/how-to-change-dns-on-a-technicolor-tg582n
>>
>> Please don’t ask me to explain any of this as it’s way over my head BUT
>> since setting up my primary DNS as 8.8.8.8 and secondary as 8.8.4.4 web
>> browsing is vastly improved.
>>
>> Note that this doesn’t seem to change the DNS setting visible on the “home
>> screen” of the router’s internet settings.
>
> What you're seeing is less likely due to Google's servers being more
> responsive than ours, and more likely the result of you removing the
> router's DNS proxy from the equation when performing lookups.

That kinda begs the question why the router is set up like it is (or rather
was) then surely?

>
> i.e. before, you were doing this for each lookup:
>
> client device > router > plusnet DNS resolver
>
> Now, because you've told the router to assign Google's DNS to each
> client directly (rather than have proxy requests through the router),
> you're doing this:
>
> client device > google DNS resolver
>
> You'll probably find you have equal success assigning two of Plusnet's
> resolvers in the same way:
>
> 212.159.6.9
> 212.159.6.10
> 212.159.13.49
> 212.159.13.50

Well now I’m already out of my depth. “Assigning ... resolvers”.

As far as I can see my primary and secondary DNS settings are already the
first two. Where do these extra DNS settings go?


>
> So it becomes:
>
> client device > plusnet DNS resolver
>
> Our DNS servers are without a doubt physically closer to you than
> Google's (from a routing perspective).
>
> As an aside, you *can* change the DNS settings used by the router,
> however it needs to be done using telnet and the CLI -
> https://community.plus.net/t5/Library/How-to-change-the-default-DNS-Servers-in-a-Thomson-Router/ba-p/1322317

So what have I done then? It seems to work. Would it work better still if
I did it “properly”?

Graham J

unread,
Dec 13, 2017, 2:16:29 PM12/13/17
to
Tim+ wrote:

[snip]

>> You'll probably find you have equal success assigning two of Plusnet's
>> resolvers in the same way:
>>
>> 212.159.6.9
>> 212.159.6.10
>> 212.159.13.49
>> 212.159.13.50
>
> Well now I’m already out of my depth. “Assigning ... resolvers”.
>
> As far as I can see my primary and secondary DNS settings are already the
> first two. Where do these extra DNS settings go?

Plusnet has several DNS servers, see:

https://www.plus.net/help/broadband/about-dns-server-and-website-settings/

The same is true of some other ISPs.

Any of these DNS servers can fail (and in my experiece with ISPs such as
BT, they often do). So the more you can list in your local DNS server's
"forwarders" table, the better.

In a simple router the DNS capability might be limited to only two
server entries - in this case when you apparently have a connection but
cannot get web pages the normal solution is to reboot the router. As it
restarts it gets the IP addresses of the DNS servers that are currently
working.

Those who build their own DNS servers using a Rasberry PI for example
can do much better than can be achieved in a cheap router.

People like Google have only 2 public DNS IP addresses - 8.8.8.8 and
8.8.4.4 so most routers can use these and not lose the ability to see
websites. Google probably has many more customers than BT or Plusnet so
they have a different technique for handling the large volume of DNS
lookup traffic - arguably a more sophisticated technique than BT or
Plusnet, which simply have several DNS servers and give out different
server addresses to different customers.

--
Graham J


Tweed

unread,
Dec 13, 2017, 2:39:12 PM12/13/17
to
See also 9.9.9.9 if you don’t like Google

Michael R N Dolbear

unread,
Dec 13, 2017, 7:37:58 PM12/13/17
to


"Tim+" wrote in message
news:1226144033.534863842.429...@news.individual.net...

> We’ve had Plusnet FTTC for over a year now and whilst things seem to
> stream
okay, general web browsing has always progressed in fits and starts. It
never seemed much (if any) better than when we had an ADSL connection.

> I read elsewhere about using Google’s DNS servers so I thought I’d have a
go at changing mine. Unfortunately my Technicolour router’s DNS settings
seem uneditable but from this site I was able to change the private LAN DNS
settings.

> https://uno.help/knowledge-base/article/how-to-change-dns-on-a-technicolor-tg582n

I have basic Plusnet with a Technicolor-tg582n and kept getting occasional
Windows 8.1 problems "DNS server not responding"
My Amazon tablets has no problems

So I followed
http://www.plus.net/support/software/dns/changing-dns-windows-8.shtml
so as to change to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 in Windows
No DNS problems since 2017-10-10

--
Mike D

Tim+

unread,
Dec 14, 2017, 2:45:52 AM12/14/17
to
Page doesn’t exist any more.

Michael R N Dolbear

unread,
Dec 14, 2017, 2:18:04 PM12/14/17
to

"Tim+" wrote in message
news:280945947.534930324.070...@news.individual.net...
.>. Page doesn’t exist any more.



https://web.archive.org/web/20130407061728/http://www.plus.net/support/software/dns/changing-dns-windows-8.shtml

--
Mike D

Plusnet Support Team

unread,
Dec 18, 2017, 6:18:52 AM12/18/17
to
On 14/12/2017 00:38, Michael R N Dolbear wrote:
>
>
> "Tim+"  wrote in message
> news:1226144033.534863842.429...@news.individual.net...
>
>
>> We’ve had Plusnet FTTC for over a year now and whilst things seem to
>> stream
> okay, general web browsing has always progressed in fits and starts. It
> never seemed much (if any) better than when we had an ADSL connection.
>
>> I read elsewhere about using Google’s DNS servers so I thought I’d have a
> go at changing mine. Unfortunately my Technicolour router’s DNS settings
> seem uneditable but from this site I was able to change the private LAN DNS
> settings.
>
>> https://uno.help/knowledge-base/article/how-to-change-dns-on-a-technicolor-tg582n
>>
>
> I have basic Plusnet with a Technicolor-tg582n and kept getting
> occasional Windows 8.1 problems "DNS server not responding"
> My Amazon tablets has no problems

Unrelated to this thread, but I reckon that will have been the result of
the 'WAN Spoofing' functionality misbehaving.

https://community.plus.net/t5/Broadband/198-18-1-x-address-problems/m-p/1374877#M309074

Can be disabled in the CLI by doing:

: dns server config WANDownSpoofing=disabled
: saveall

> So I followed
> http://www.plus.net/support/software/dns/changing-dns-windows-8.shtml
> so as to change to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 in Windows
> No DNS problems since 2017-10-10
--

Plusnet Support Team

unread,
Dec 18, 2017, 6:38:29 AM12/18/17
to
On 13/12/2017 16:49, Tim+ wrote:
> Plusnet Support Team <sup...@plus.net> wrote:
>> On 13/12/2017 13:24, Tim+ wrote:
>>> We’ve had Plusnet FTTC for over a year now and whilst things seem to stream
>>> okay, general web browsing has always progressed in fits and starts. It
>>> never seemed much (if any) better than when we had an ADSL connection.
>>>
>>> I read elsewhere about using Google’s DNS servers so I thought I’d have a
>>> go at changing mine. Unfortunately my Technicolour router’s DNS settings
>>> seem uneditable but from this site I was able to change the private LAN DNS
>>> settings.
>>>
>>> https://uno.help/knowledge-base/article/how-to-change-dns-on-a-technicolor-tg582n
>>>
>>> Please don’t ask me to explain any of this as it’s way over my head BUT
>>> since setting up my primary DNS as 8.8.8.8 and secondary as 8.8.4.4 web
>>> browsing is vastly improved.
>>>
>>> Note that this doesn’t seem to change the DNS setting visible on the “home
>>> screen” of the router’s internet settings.
>>
>> What you're seeing is less likely due to Google's servers being more
>> responsive than ours, and more likely the result of you removing the
>> router's DNS proxy from the equation when performing lookups.
>
> That kinda begs the question why the router is set up like it is (or rather
> was) then surely?

Problems aren't typical. It's just much more likely to be the router
introducing the delay.

It wouldn't be wise for us to configure things like you have by default.
It's much more sensible to have the DNS assigned by our RADIUS servers
instead. There are services that won't work with the way you have things
configured, namely our parental control filtering, and if we need to
change the DNS servers we're assigning in future, you would have to make
manual changes in order to follow suit - not practical to expect this of
every customer.

>> i.e. before, you were doing this for each lookup:
>>
>> client device > router > plusnet DNS resolver
>>
>> Now, because you've told the router to assign Google's DNS to each
>> client directly (rather than have proxy requests through the router),
>> you're doing this:
>>
>> client device > google DNS resolver
>>
>> You'll probably find you have equal success assigning two of Plusnet's
>> resolvers in the same way:
>>
>> 212.159.6.9
>> 212.159.6.10
>> 212.159.13.49
>> 212.159.13.50
>
> Well now I’m already out of my depth. “Assigning ... resolvers”.
>
> As far as I can see my primary and secondary DNS settings are already the
> first two. Where do these extra DNS settings go?

They're not the ones being used though. Your router is getting assigned
the first two addresses, however you've effectively overidden this by
telling all connecting devices to use Google's DNS addresses instead.

>> So it becomes:
>>
>> client device > plusnet DNS resolver
>>
>> Our DNS servers are without a doubt physically closer to you than
>> Google's (from a routing perspective).
>>
>> As an aside, you *can* change the DNS settings used by the router,
>> however it needs to be done using telnet and the CLI -
>> https://community.plus.net/t5/Library/How-to-change-the-default-DNS-Servers-in-a-Thomson-Router/ba-p/1322317
>
> So what have I done then? It seems to work. Would it work better still if
> I did it “properly”?

Up to you really. Personally, I'd leave things set up as they are, but
change your primary server to one of the four I've listed above. In
theory, our servers should be more responsive as they're closer to you.
Leaving Google as secondary, gives you something to fall back on if our
servers fail for any reason.

If you want to try and get to the bottom of things then there's a load
of additional fiddling you can do, but if you're just happy it's working
then best leave as-is.
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