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Static IP on 4G network
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Graham J
Dec 7, 2021, 6:19:07 AM12/7/21
to
A client has a Teltonika RUT x11 router connecting to the EE network.
The router is fixed to a pole on top of a tall building, in order to get
a signal.
The EE network uses CGNAT so the client gets a dynamic IP shared between
many EE users; and this causes problems when that IP gets blacklisted.
A solution would be a static IP and these are available from several
suppiers, an example being:
<https://www.3grouterstore.co.uk/3G/4G-Fixed-IP-SIM-Cards.html>
But this means changing the SIM card in the router, which involves
hiring a cherry-picker to get to the top of the pole on the barn.
So why did the router manufacturer put the SIM card in the router?
Surely it would bave been more sensible to put the SIM card in the PoE
injector or split the router into two functional boxes, the router and
the radio transceiver, with the router and SIM card at ground level and
the radio unit connected by cat 5 cable at the top of the antenna mast?
Any ideas?
--
Graham J
The router is fixed to a pole on top of a tall building, in order to get
a signal.
The EE network uses CGNAT so the client gets a dynamic IP shared between
many EE users; and this causes problems when that IP gets blacklisted.
A solution would be a static IP and these are available from several
suppiers, an example being:
<https://www.3grouterstore.co.uk/3G/4G-Fixed-IP-SIM-Cards.html>
But this means changing the SIM card in the router, which involves
hiring a cherry-picker to get to the top of the pole on the barn.
So why did the router manufacturer put the SIM card in the router?
Surely it would bave been more sensible to put the SIM card in the PoE
injector or split the router into two functional boxes, the router and
the radio transceiver, with the router and SIM card at ground level and
the radio unit connected by cat 5 cable at the top of the antenna mast?
Any ideas?
--
Graham J
Andy Burns
Dec 7, 2021, 6:30:15 AM12/7/21
to
Graham J wrote:
> A client has a Teltonika RUT x11 router connecting to the EE network. The router
> is fixed to a pole on top of a tall building, in order to get a signal.
>
> Any ideas?
> A client has a Teltonika RUT x11 router connecting to the EE network. The router
> is fixed to a pole on top of a tall building, in order to get a signal.
>
I've seen MiFi units that support eSIM instead of physical sim, maybe someone
somewhere makes an ethernet/PoE router that does too?
Sounds like you shouldn't expect Teltonika to be that someone
<https://community.teltonika-networks.com/26455/5g-%26-esim-devices>
Mike Humphrey
Dec 7, 2021, 8:00:42 AM12/7/21
to
On Tue, 07 Dec 2021 11:18:54 +0000, Graham J wrote:
> But this means changing the SIM card in the router, which involves
> hiring a cherry-picker to get to the top of the pole on the barn.
>
> So why did the router manufacturer put the SIM card in the router?
>
> Surely it would bave been more sensible to put the SIM card in the PoE
> injector or split the router into two functional boxes, the router and
> the radio transceiver, with the router and SIM card at ground level and
> the radio unit connected by cat 5 cable at the top of the antenna mast?
It's entirely possible to have the router at ground level and the antenna
> But this means changing the SIM card in the router, which involves
> hiring a cherry-picker to get to the top of the pole on the barn.
>
> So why did the router manufacturer put the SIM card in the router?
>
> Surely it would bave been more sensible to put the SIM card in the PoE
> injector or split the router into two functional boxes, the router and
> the radio transceiver, with the router and SIM card at ground level and
> the radio unit connected by cat 5 cable at the top of the antenna mast?
on a pole, that's the setup I've got. The issue is that you really want
to keep the antenna cable as short as possible, so ideally the RF chip
should be directly connected to the antenna - which means putting it in
the pole-top unit. And standard chipsets expect the SIM to be connected
to the RF chip, rather than in a remote unit, so you end up with the SIM
there too.
Mike
Graham J
Dec 7, 2021, 10:37:38 AM12/7/21
to
4G signals are fine 100 feet up but non-existant inside buildigns?
--
Graham J
Theo
Dec 7, 2021, 3:05:02 PM12/7/21
to
Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> Well, that explains the silly design! Did nobody understand that 3G and
> 4G signals are fine 100 feet up but non-existant inside buildigns?
Many people's phones beg to differ.
> Well, that explains the silly design! Did nobody understand that 3G and
> 4G signals are fine 100 feet up but non-existant inside buildigns?
The product you have might be designed to be mounted outside, but not 100
feet up a pole. For that there are things like:
https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/37640-poynting-5g-xpol-a0002/
You then cable it down to a suitable location to mount the CPE, which could
be the box you already have. You'd need to use suitable cable for the
frequencies in question - something better than a bit of TV coax. That one
comes with 10m of HDF195 cable.
Sticking a router or USB stick on the end of a pole is a crude but not
particularly practical solution, as you have noted.
Theo
Graham J
Dec 7, 2021, 5:41:06 PM12/7/21
to
Theo wrote:
> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>> Well, that explains the silly design! Did nobody understand that 3G and
>> 4G signals are fine 100 feet up but non-existant inside buildigns?
>
> Many people's phones beg to differ.
Things may be different if you live in a big town or city. But in those
> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>> Well, that explains the silly design! Did nobody understand that 3G and
>> 4G signals are fine 100 feet up but non-existant inside buildigns?
>
> Many people's phones beg to differ.
locations you can get FTTC or FTTP so getting decent broadband is not a
problem. But in terms of area rather than population density, an
enormous proportion of the UK has virtually no 3G or 4G signals; and it
is exactly these areas which don't have decent landline-based broadband
either.
Normally I would say if you want good broadband, move house or office.
But the nature of farming is that it takes place in rural areas.
Further, HMG expects all the farmers to fill in forms via the internet
rather than use paper.
So there is a real need for a good broadband service to rural locations.
I know there are some farmers who could afford the £50k NRE charges and
£1,000 per month rental for Gigabit FTTP on demand, but for maybe
50GByte per month this would be overkill and not a good way to spend money.
> The product you have might be designed to be mounted outside, but not 100
> feet up a pole. For that there are things like:
> https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/37640-poynting-5g-xpol-a0002/
> You then cable it down to a suitable location to mount the CPE, which could
> be the box you already have. You'd need to use suitable cable for the
> frequencies in question - something better than a bit of TV coax. That one
> comes with 10m of HDF195 cable.
>
> Sticking a router or USB stick on the end of a pole is a crude but not
> particularly practical solution, as you have noted.
stands: is there a transceiver and antenna in a waterproof housing,
which connects by PoE using Cat 5 cable to a router which contains the
necessary SIM?
--
Graham J
Sn!pe
Dec 7, 2021, 6:02:38 PM12/7/21
to
Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
> Things may be different if you live in a big town or city. But in those
> locations you can get FTTC or FTTP so getting decent broadband is not a
> problem. But in terms of area rather than population density, an
> enormous proportion of the UK has virtually no 3G or 4G signals; and it
> is exactly these areas which don't have decent landline-based broadband
> either.
>
> Normally I would say if you want good broadband, move house or office.
> But the nature of farming is that it takes place in rural areas.
> Further, HMG expects all the farmers to fill in forms via the internet
> rather than use paper.
>
> So there is a real need for a good broadband service to rural locations.
>
> I know there are some farmers who could afford the £50k NRE charges and
> £1,000 per month rental for Gigabit FTTP on demand, but for maybe
> 50GByte per month this would be overkill and not a good way to spend money.
>
This sounds as though one of the new satellite based services may be
worth consideration, such as Elon Musk's Starlink:-
<https://www.starlink.com> (I have no connection to this service)
--
^Ï^ <https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E>
My pet rock Gordon just is.
[...]
> Things may be different if you live in a big town or city. But in those
> locations you can get FTTC or FTTP so getting decent broadband is not a
> problem. But in terms of area rather than population density, an
> enormous proportion of the UK has virtually no 3G or 4G signals; and it
> is exactly these areas which don't have decent landline-based broadband
> either.
>
> Normally I would say if you want good broadband, move house or office.
> But the nature of farming is that it takes place in rural areas.
> Further, HMG expects all the farmers to fill in forms via the internet
> rather than use paper.
>
> So there is a real need for a good broadband service to rural locations.
>
> I know there are some farmers who could afford the £50k NRE charges and
> £1,000 per month rental for Gigabit FTTP on demand, but for maybe
> 50GByte per month this would be overkill and not a good way to spend money.
>
worth consideration, such as Elon Musk's Starlink:-
<https://www.starlink.com> (I have no connection to this service)
--
^Ï^ <https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E>
My pet rock Gordon just is.
Abandoned_Trolley
Dec 8, 2021, 3:22:41 AM12/8/21
to
"(I have no connection to this service)"
I guess thats not a recommendation then ?
--
random signature text inserted here
Woody
Dec 8, 2021, 3:29:46 AM12/8/21
to
On Tue 07/12/2021 22:40, Graham J wrote:
> Theo wrote:
>> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Well, that explains the silly design! Did nobody understand that 3G and
>>> 4G signals are fine 100 feet up but non-existant inside buildigns?
>>
>> Many people's phones beg to differ.
>
> Things may be different if you live in a big town or city. But in those
> locations you can get FTTC or FTTP so getting decent broadband is not a
> problem. But in terms of area rather than population density, an
> enormous proportion of the UK has virtually no 3G or 4G signals; and it
> is exactly these areas which don't have decent landline-based broadband
> either.
>
> Normally I would say if you want good broadband, move house or office.
> But the nature of farming is that it takes place in rural areas.
> Further, HMG expects all the farmers to fill in forms via the internet
> rather than use paper.
>
> So there is a real need for a good broadband service to rural locations.
>
> I know there are some farmers who could afford the £50k NRE charges and
> £1,000 per month rental for Gigabit FTTP on demand, but for maybe
> 50GByte per month this would be overkill and not a good way to spend money.
>
[snip]
> Theo wrote:
>> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Well, that explains the silly design! Did nobody understand that 3G and
>>> 4G signals are fine 100 feet up but non-existant inside buildigns?
>>
>> Many people's phones beg to differ.
>
> Things may be different if you live in a big town or city. But in those
> locations you can get FTTC or FTTP so getting decent broadband is not a
> problem. But in terms of area rather than population density, an
> enormous proportion of the UK has virtually no 3G or 4G signals; and it
> is exactly these areas which don't have decent landline-based broadband
> either.
>
> Normally I would say if you want good broadband, move house or office.
> But the nature of farming is that it takes place in rural areas.
> Further, HMG expects all the farmers to fill in forms via the internet
> rather than use paper.
>
> So there is a real need for a good broadband service to rural locations.
>
> I know there are some farmers who could afford the £50k NRE charges and
> £1,000 per month rental for Gigabit FTTP on demand, but for maybe
> 50GByte per month this would be overkill and not a good way to spend money.
>
We take our caravan to a farm site in the south west. The farmer/site
owner had four BT lines to his location for various uses. All four had
BT ADSL broadband on them and all four came in the same cable (about 1/3
U/G and 2/3 overhead) according to BT 2908m from the serving exchange
(actually a concentrator I believe.)
According to dslchecker the lines were rated:
Line 1 max of 6Mb which usually peaked at about 5.5Mb
Line 2 max of 2.5Mb, peaked at 2.2Mb
Lines 3 and 4 max of 2Mb peaked at 1.8Mb but subject to weather
degradation which has shown figures lower than 500Kb and lots of noise
on speech!
According to BT business sales these four lines were identical! Indeed
if they travel in the same cable from the same source and by the same
route WHY are they rated different speeds by the BT system?
There is a 3 site shared with EE 1.1Km from his location line of sight,
save that for some reason 3 have chosen not to install 4G there whereas
EE have. There is a electricity pylon site about 650m away l.o.s. in the
other direction on which VF and O2 sit sharing aerials and 4G on both.
Stonking signals all round. I showed him how to use his phone as a
hotspot from which he could easily get just over 10Mb and that on 3G. He
was so pleased he has discontinued all of the BT lines (except Line 1
which is used by another member of his family for business) and now runs
everything on 4G except his own phone. The house uses 4G on O2 from
which he is getting about 20Mb (on the caravan site I can pull 29Mb on a
mi-fi) and the caravan site gets about 22Mb on EE at one end and I have
pulled 42Mb at the other end on VF 4G from a second system.
The farmer has told all his local and surrounding farming mates and many
of them are now also moving to 4G. BT's arrogance seems to have lost
them business methinks.
Graham J
Dec 8, 2021, 3:51:21 AM12/8/21
to
Sn!pe wrote:
[snip]
>
> This sounds as though one of the new satellite based services may be
> worth consideration, such as Elon Musk's Starlink:-
>
> <https://www.starlink.com> (I have no connection to this service)
So I looked at the site. No indication of pricing. Tried to place an
order, just got spinning circle which eventually gives up and asks again
for the address.
Obvious disadvantages so far:
1) dynamic IP only
2) no static IP, so potentially will suffer from the same blacklisting
problem as we have with EE
3) IPv4 only, no IPv6 yet
4) no performance monitoring (speed, data volume used, latency, etc.)
Has anybody here used one?
--
Graham J
[snip]
>
> This sounds as though one of the new satellite based services may be
> worth consideration, such as Elon Musk's Starlink:-
>
> <https://www.starlink.com> (I have no connection to this service)
order, just got spinning circle which eventually gives up and asks again
for the address.
Obvious disadvantages so far:
1) dynamic IP only
2) no static IP, so potentially will suffer from the same blacklisting
problem as we have with EE
3) IPv4 only, no IPv6 yet
4) no performance monitoring (speed, data volume used, latency, etc.)
Has anybody here used one?
--
Graham J
Theo
Dec 8, 2021, 4:34:34 AM12/8/21
to
Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> So I looked at the site. No indication of pricing. Tried to place an
> order, just got spinning circle which eventually gives up and asks again
> for the address.
It's $99 per month, $499 upfront equipment cost (at least in the US - I
> So I looked at the site. No indication of pricing. Tried to place an
> order, just got spinning circle which eventually gives up and asks again
> for the address.
assume UK pricing is similar).
People are getting ~100Mbps, although that's very much based on how
contended their area is and how many satellites are active (more are
launching). It's 'beta' so speeds aren't guaranteed and subject to change
as things are still in rollout phase.
Theo
Sn!pe
Dec 8, 2021, 5:07:49 AM12/8/21
to
Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> Sn!pe wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >
> > This sounds as though one of the new satellite based services may be
> > worth consideration, such as Elon Musk's Starlink:-
> >
> > <https://www.starlink.com> (I have no connection to this service)
>
> So I looked at the site. No indication of pricing. Tried to place an
> order, just got spinning circle which eventually gives up and asks again
> for the address.
>
You have to put in an address to get a quote.
> Sn!pe wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >
> > This sounds as though one of the new satellite based services may be
> > worth consideration, such as Elon Musk's Starlink:-
> >
> > <https://www.starlink.com> (I have no connection to this service)
>
> So I looked at the site. No indication of pricing. Tried to place an
> order, just got spinning circle which eventually gives up and asks again
> for the address.
>
For my address (redacted):
from the website this morning:-
--------
ORDER STARLINK
[Street, Town, Postcode, UK]
Starlink expects to expand service in your area by mid 2022. You will
receive a notification once your Starlink is ready to ship.
Hardware
£439.00
Service
£89.00 /mo
Shipping & Handling
£54.00
Pricing above includes local taxes totaling approx. £97.00
DEPOSIT DUE TODAY
£89.00
--------
I have no axe to grind on this, it was only a suggestion.
> Obvious disadvantages so far:
>
> 1) dynamic IP only
>
> 2) no static IP, so potentially will suffer from the same blacklisting
> problem as we have with EE
>
> 3) IPv4 only, no IPv6 yet
>
> 4) no performance monitoring (speed, data volume used, latency, etc.)
>
> Has anybody here used one?
--
Graham J
Dec 8, 2021, 5:51:21 AM12/8/21
to
Sn!pe wrote:
> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Sn!pe wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>
>>> This sounds as though one of the new satellite based services may be
>>> worth consideration, such as Elon Musk's Starlink:-
>>>
>>> <https://www.starlink.com> (I have no connection to this service)
>>
>> So I looked at the site. No indication of pricing. Tried to place an
>> order, just got spinning circle which eventually gives up and asks again
>> for the address.
>>
>
> You have to put in an address to get a quote.
I did so. It was: V3P4+528 Holbeach St Marks, Spalding
> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Sn!pe wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>
>>> This sounds as though one of the new satellite based services may be
>>> worth consideration, such as Elon Musk's Starlink:-
>>>
>>> <https://www.starlink.com> (I have no connection to this service)
>>
>> So I looked at the site. No indication of pricing. Tried to place an
>> order, just got spinning circle which eventually gives up and asks again
>> for the address.
>>
>
> You have to put in an address to get a quote.
This is the "Plus Code" from Google maps, since the site does not accept
UK postcodes. I've tried again - still fails.
Not impressed.
Your prices noted, thanks.
--
Graham J
Andy Burns
Dec 8, 2021, 6:09:43 AM12/8/21
to
Theo wrote:
> Graham J wrote:
>
>> So I looked at the site. No indication of pricing. Tried to place an
>> order, just got spinning circle which eventually gives up and asks again
>> for the address.
I'm sure starlink was mentioned to you a previous time you discussed this farm?
> It's $99 per month, $499 upfront equipment cost (at least in the US - I
> assume UK pricing is similar).
>
> People are getting ~100Mbps, although that's very much based on how
> contended their area is and how many satellites are active (more are
> launching). It's 'beta' so speeds aren't guaranteed and subject to change
> as things are still in rollout phase.
I think it's out of beta now, but some customers are now getting quoted long
lead times, some until 2023 ...
> Graham J wrote:
>
>> So I looked at the site. No indication of pricing. Tried to place an
>> order, just got spinning circle which eventually gives up and asks again
>> for the address.
> It's $99 per month, $499 upfront equipment cost (at least in the US - I
> assume UK pricing is similar).
>
> People are getting ~100Mbps, although that's very much based on how
> contended their area is and how many satellites are active (more are
> launching). It's 'beta' so speeds aren't guaranteed and subject to change
> as things are still in rollout phase.
lead times, some until 2023 ...
Andy Burns
Dec 8, 2021, 6:17:46 AM12/8/21
to
Graham J wrote:
> Sn!pe wrote:
> Sn!pe wrote:
>
>> Graham J wrote:
>>
>>> Tried to place an order, just got spinning circle which eventually gives
>>> up and asks again for the address.
>>
>> You have to put in an address to get a quote.
>
> I did so. It was: V3P4+528 Holbeach St Marks, Spalding
> This is the "Plus Code" from Google maps, since the site does not accept UK
> postcodes. I've tried again - still fails.
disable adblockers and ctrl-F5 to refresh page? ... works here for that addr.
>> Graham J wrote:
>>
>>> Tried to place an order, just got spinning circle which eventually gives
>>> up and asks again for the address.
>>
>> You have to put in an address to get a quote.
>
> I did so. It was: V3P4+528 Holbeach St Marks, Spalding
> This is the "Plus Code" from Google maps, since the site does not accept UK
> postcodes. I've tried again - still fails.
Mike
Dec 8, 2021, 9:52:07 AM12/8/21
to
In article <1pjuagr.85s7zru1h2unN%snip...@gmail.com>,
Sn!pe <snip...@gmail.com> wrote:
>... such as Elon Musk's Starlink:-
> (I have no connection to this service)
The connection will come back when the satellite comes over ;)
--
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk
Sn!pe <snip...@gmail.com> wrote:
>... such as Elon Musk's Starlink:-
> (I have no connection to this service)
--
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk
notya...@gmail.com
Dec 9, 2021, 6:00:11 AM12/9/21
to
Can't you take the pole down?
Graham J
Dec 9, 2021, 3:42:39 PM12/9/21
to
notya...@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
>
> So they sold just ONE box. The Teltonika box I got installed had aerial connections and we fitted the router in an accessible point inside the building and the aerial a few metres away higher up on the outside. You still need a ladder to change the SIM, but not a cherry picker.
The pole is 3 metres tall. It is mounted on a bracket 7 metres up on
the side of a barn, so the antenna is 10 metres above ground. Any
lower, and it doesn't get a signal. The pole is left over from an
earlier point-to-point wireless link oringinally installed for another
purpose that is now no longer required, so fitting the Teltonica box was
straightfroward but did require the cherry-picker.
The Cat5 cable is about 50 metres long in all, 10 metres down then the
rest to run around the building to the office.
If the transceiver were just inside the barn, the antenna could be
connected using a 10 metre feeder - but I suspect the loss would be
unaccepable.
--
Graham J
[snip]
>
> So they sold just ONE box. The Teltonika box I got installed had aerial connections and we fitted the router in an accessible point inside the building and the aerial a few metres away higher up on the outside. You still need a ladder to change the SIM, but not a cherry picker.
>
> Can't you take the pole down?
>
No.
> Can't you take the pole down?
>
The pole is 3 metres tall. It is mounted on a bracket 7 metres up on
the side of a barn, so the antenna is 10 metres above ground. Any
lower, and it doesn't get a signal. The pole is left over from an
earlier point-to-point wireless link oringinally installed for another
purpose that is now no longer required, so fitting the Teltonica box was
straightfroward but did require the cherry-picker.
The Cat5 cable is about 50 metres long in all, 10 metres down then the
rest to run around the building to the office.
If the transceiver were just inside the barn, the antenna could be
connected using a 10 metre feeder - but I suspect the loss would be
unaccepable.
--
Graham J
Andy Burns
Dec 9, 2021, 3:52:40 PM12/9/21
to
Graham J wrote:
> Mark Clayton wrote:
>
>> Can't you take the pole down?
>
> No.
>
> The pole is 3 metres tall. It is mounted on a bracket 7 metres up on the side
> of a barn, so the antenna is 10 metres above ground. Any lower, and it doesn't
> get a signal.
Hinged pole so the router can be lowered to ground level?
<https://www.valmont-stainton.com/products/lighting/functional/hinged/humber-base-hinged-tubular-column>
> Mark Clayton wrote:
>
>> Can't you take the pole down?
>
> No.
>
> The pole is 3 metres tall. It is mounted on a bracket 7 metres up on the side
> of a barn, so the antenna is 10 metres above ground. Any lower, and it doesn't
> get a signal.
<https://www.valmont-stainton.com/products/lighting/functional/hinged/humber-base-hinged-tubular-column>
Tweed
Dec 9, 2021, 4:35:30 PM12/9/21
to
box to a VPN provider that offers a fixed IP at their end? Saves changing
the SIM.
Graham J
Dec 10, 2021, 3:51:32 AM12/10/21
to
Tweed wrote:
[snip]
>
> Couldn’t you run a nailed up VPN from a router in front of the Telefonica
> box to a VPN provider that offers a fixed IP at their end? Saves changing
> the SIM.
Yes, that is one option I'm considering
--
Graham J
[snip]
>
> Couldn’t you run a nailed up VPN from a router in front of the Telefonica
> box to a VPN provider that offers a fixed IP at their end? Saves changing
> the SIM.
--
Graham J
notya...@gmail.com
Dec 11, 2021, 7:35:33 AM12/11/21
to
If the ground is flat and stable you could maybe hire a [towed] scissor lift.
Or hinge the pole (see other reply below).
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