Beware of TalkTalk

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cl...@climaxsys.co.uk

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Jun 19, 2006, 1:29:08 AM6/19/06
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This message is for anyone who is still foolish enough to be tempted by
TalkTalk's "Broadband Forever" package. In my case it seems to be
"Broadband Never"!! I signed up to this package in April and my
line rental was transferred from BT to TalkTalk on the 4th May with the
promise of Broadband "going live" on the 12th May. They began charging
me £20.99/month from the line transfer date (4th May). A few days
after signup I was contacted by TalkTalk for a MAC code so that they
could begin migrating my ADSL service to them. This was supplied the
same day via email and confirmed with a telephone call. However, they
failed to start my broadband on the promised date. When I contacted
them they promised that I would be connected in a few days -again they
failed. Several phone calls and several promises later (not to mention
the countless hours wasted in calling queues often being cut off before
getting the chance to speak to someone) I eventually discovered that
they had not used the MAC code that I had supplied and had to obtain
another because the initial one had expired - one month had already
elapsed!! Once, again I obtained a MAC code and supplied it to TalkTalk
that very day. Around ten day later I was contacted by TalkTalk to
advise me that the migration would occur on the 8th of June and was
told that I would be receiving my username, password and modem in the
post in a few days. The service was eventually migrated on the 9th June
at around 9am. I can be sure of the time because I was working from
home at that time transferring some files to the office when my
internet died. After sitting in TalkTalk's calling queue for the best
part of an hour I was able to confirm that the migration at started.
However, in their wisdom TalkTalk had decided to start the migration
before generating my username and password let alone sending them
together with the promised modem!!! So here I sat with my new ADSL
service and I couldn't use it because I had received no login details
and no equipment. Well I already owned an ADSL modem/router so all I
would need is the appropriate parameters to set this up for their
service and I should be able to obtain these together with the other
details in a quick phone call - or so you'd think! I sat on the
phone for another hour in TalkTalk's calling queue only to be told
that TalkTalk don't support equipment other than their own modem and
that it takes at least 48hours to generate the username and password!!!
I had to get a bit stroppy with the support guy and insist that he put
me through to his manager to resolve this situation. However, it still
took two further calls (and much wasted time in calling queues before I
was given the required information). And guess what it didn't work
and it still doesn't - I've been without any broadband service
since 9am on the 9th July (that's almost 10 days already and I still
haven't received anything in the post). In spite of several phone
calls to their support line (and several very long and heated
discussions - I'm normally quite calm and rational) I still have no
broadband access. So far I have determined that my router is correctly
configured and that I am accessing their server with my login details
but my accesses are being rejected for some reason that they can't
explain. I don't think the support staff at TalkTalk have a clue
about what they are doing or how to fix this problem. Almost everyone
I've spoken to seems more eager to get you off the phone than resolve
the problem. They often try to fob you off with nonsense pseudo
technical excuses (I know its nonsense because I'm an IT
professional) or they promise to arrange a call back but it rarely
happens. Another trick is to pretend to transfer you to another
department or colleague and in the process "accidentally" cut you
off but this is not funny when you've already sat in a calling queue
for an hour or more waiting to speak to someone. I am totally fed up of
this company - how they hope to compete with BT offering a service
like this is beyond me. In desperation, I emailed their chairman last
week hoping to expedite a solution but the only thing that solicited
was an automated email response. So there we have it - no broadband
for 10 days and no prospect of a solution - and I'm paying for the
privilege. Why don't I just leave them you may ask? Well they say
that they will charge me £70 for terminating the contract early and it
would take a further 16 days to issue me a MAC code to enable me to
transfer the ADSL service that I don't have to another company!!!!!
All I can say is "Beware of TalkTalk" - rubbish does do them
justice.

cl...@climaxsys.co.uk

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Jun 19, 2006, 1:29:33 AM6/19/06
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David Bradley

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Jun 19, 2006, 2:59:50 AM6/19/06
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On 18 Jun 2006 22:29:33 -0700, cl...@climaxsys.co.uk wrote:

>This message is for anyone who is still foolish enough to be tempted by
>TalkTalk's "Broadband Forever" package.

<snip the rest except for this statement:>

"They often try to fob you off with nonsense pseudo
technical excuses (I know its nonsense because I'm an IT
professional)"


Hmm, no Broadband for several weeks and still counting; that really is a pain
in the backside. However in this sorry saga I could not help noticing that you
are an IT professional - as such why on earth did you want to move to TalkTalk
in the first place? And more importunately, move your line rental to them? I
shudder to think how you would resolve losing you voice service.

David Bradley

ABC

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Jun 19, 2006, 3:14:33 AM6/19/06
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"David Bradley" <tro...@spamless.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5aic92p9gpaomkk45...@4ax.com...
You could go for a breach of contract as TalkTalk have not honoured their
side of the contract. The cancellation fee is just scaremongering and can
not legally be enforced.


It's Me

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Jun 19, 2006, 4:28:57 AM6/19/06
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"ABC" <simo...@nospamemail.afraid.org> wrote in message
news:e75isq$n8p$1...@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk...

>
> "David Bradley" <tro...@spamless.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:5aic92p9gpaomkk45...@4ax.com...
>> On 18 Jun 2006 22:29:33 -0700, cl...@climaxsys.co.uk wrote:
>>
>>>This message is for anyone who is still foolish enough to be tempted by
>>>TalkTalk's "Broadband Forever" package.
>>
>> <snip the rest except for this statement:>
>>
>> "They often try to fob you off with nonsense pseudo
>> technical excuses (I know its nonsense because I'm an IT
>> professional)"
>>


IT professional ? I don't think you are or you would not even have given any
thought of signing up to TalkTalk.

I am IT amateur and even I know you get what you pay for, in the case of
TalkTalk broadband is free.


Spin Dryer

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Jun 19, 2006, 4:48:37 AM6/19/06
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On 18 Jun 2006 22:29:08 -0700, [cl...@climaxsys.co.uk] said :-


>(I know its nonsense because I'm an IT professional)

In which case, you had better learn some grammar and use paragraphs.

Also, why the hell did you even consider TT ?

Flying Rat

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Jun 19, 2006, 6:14:48 AM6/19/06
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In article <4496601d$0$1219$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk>, It's Me says...
seems like quite a few people had the same first impression that I did.

If the OP is "an IT professional" then I wouldn't employ him. The Talk
Talk scheme has so many potential problems associated with it (namely
how do you fund a functional broadband offering at zero cost to the
consumer?) that someone who can't spot that isn't much of an IT person
in my eyes.

You get what you pay for. If you pay nothing, you can't expect Zen
standards of service or competence. I certainly wouldn't trust my IT
requirements to someone who takes gambles on their own services, and
ends up losing, or does not think that quality is worth paying for.

Paul Woodsford

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Jun 19, 2006, 9:14:39 AM6/19/06
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<cl...@climaxsys.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1150694948.8...@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
snip

- I've been without any broadband service
since 9am on the 9th July (that's almost 10 days already and I still
haven't received anything in the post).
snip

Calendar's wrong as well.

--
Paul Woodsford
Remove NOSPAM to reply.


gort

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Jun 19, 2006, 2:21:21 PM6/19/06
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> If the OP is "an IT professional" then I wouldn't employ him.

Usually the people who have to tell you they are an 'IT Professional' are
the last people you want to allow to have access to your pc !!. Usually
they tell you they have MSCE as well.

Dave

Danone@bt.com Pier Danone

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Jun 19, 2006, 2:26:50 PM6/19/06
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<cl...@climaxsys.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1150694948.8...@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<SNIP>

"(I know its nonsense because I'm an IT professional) "

Really, and you went for the free Broadband offer from Talk Talk.
Ummm.


CJM

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Jun 20, 2006, 11:09:01 AM6/20/06
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To all responders so far...

What a bunch of arrogant assholes you are. Why can't a competant IT
professional opt for Talk Talk? Must an IT professional opt for Zen's most
expensive package?

Yes, it's a budget service, but it's sustainable - charge a tenner for an
unused international call package, and throw in basic broadband for free,
with no restrictions on increasing the charge *for the call package*
afterwards (after you have a healthy new customer base).

But if your demands are modest, and if Talk Talk were to actually deliver
what they promised, what is wrong with taking up this offer?

Yes, we all suspected it was going to be over-subscribed, and thus a choatic
shambles, driven by Talk Talks marketing wishes rather than their actual
capability and capacity. But it galls me that you all slate the guy who is
getting short-changed and are implicitly accepting Talk Talks behaviour as
the acceptable norm.

And as for judging his professional ability based on the fact that he signed
a contract that hasn't been honoured is simply bizarre. Must all nurses have
private healthcare? Must mechanics always buy performance cars from major
dealerships?

And as for petty criticisms of spelling, punctuation and grammar... well...
I'm lost for words.

I'm surprised such a canny bunch of high-flyers have the time to waste
posting on here...

CJM


George

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Jun 20, 2006, 12:13:41 PM6/20/06
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Steve

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Jun 20, 2006, 2:14:12 PM6/20/06
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Good on yer CJM
Think you hit a nerve there!.
Never ceases to amaze me that if some folk put as much effort into
helping and advising posters as they do in slagging them off it would
benefit everyone.
I know of people with various hobbies who are scared to death of
posting purely because of the many unhelpful and insulting replies
noted in ng`s.
Shame really.FWIW
Steve

Richard Brooks

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Jun 20, 2006, 2:15:59 PM6/20/06
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Maybe he's got his own motorbike, although I would say that it's a bit
dangerous! He's better off trying IT instead.

Richard.

--
"Fine salmon in the rivers."
"Grouse on the moors."
"Deer in the hills."
"Ah! but cheaper in the towns!"

poster

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Jun 20, 2006, 2:49:39 PM6/20/06
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On 20 Jun 2006 16:09, "CJM" <cjmn...@REMOVEMEyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Why can't a competant IT professional opt for Talk Talk?

They can, but with it (A) not having launched, and (B) having had some fairly
poor history (as the OP would have spotted with a few minutes searching for
the name "Talk Talk" or "TalkTalk" - since he was using Google anyway!), a
competent IT person might have done a little more research.

>Must an IT professional opt for Zen's most expensive package?

of course not, but it looks like little or no effort had been put in to check
in advance as to the actual likelihood of getting connected on TalkTalk. For
myself, I tried a number of different phone number/postcode pairs, to get at
least some idea of when the service might be available for myself and some
of my friends/relatives (though I recommended they hold off switching for a
good 6 months from the first announcements, and not do anything 'rash').

As for spelling or punctuation, it's not too common to "nit pick" on spelling
in this newsgroup, but a little bit of effort to break up a post into a few
paragraphs does a lot to assist reading it. I glanced at the original and
the follow-ups, but don't remember anyone getting 'abusive'... Peter M.

Joe Lee

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Jun 20, 2006, 9:47:32 PM6/20/06
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"CJM" <cjmn...@REMOVEMEyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4fqhceF...@individual.net...

> To all responders so far...
>
> What a bunch of arrogant assholes you are.


I assume ABC's respose, posted within two hours of your OP, hasn't appeared
on your screen then. Hopefully he'll not mind if I re-post his comments
here.

<quote>


""ABC" <simo...@nospamemail.afraid.org> wrote in message
news:e75isq$n8p$1...@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk...

You could go for a breach of contract as TalkTalk have not honoured their
side of the contract. The cancellation fee is just scaremongering and can
not legally be enforced.

</quote>

FWIW I fully agree. If, as you say, the only way of moving to another
Provider is by getting a MAC key from TT, then you need to email them & back
it up immediately with a Recorded Delivery letter stating that as they are
totally in breach of Contract then you require them to provide you with a
MAC key within (say) seven days, failing which you will issue legal
proceedings to rescind the Contract with immediate effect, that they will be
held liable for all necessary costs incurred in so doing & that no further
notice will be given.

<snip>
Joe Lee


> CJM


CJM

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Jun 21, 2006, 10:19:57 AM6/21/06
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"Joe Lee" <invalid@noaddress> wrote in message
news:4498a597$0$4387$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...

>
>
>
> I assume ABC's respose, posted within two hours of your OP, hasn't
> appeared on your screen then. Hopefully he'll not mind if I re-post his
> comments here.
>
> <quote>
> ""ABC" <simo...@nospamemail.afraid.org> wrote in message
> news:e75isq$n8p$1...@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk...
> You could go for a breach of contract as TalkTalk have not honoured their
> side of the contract. The cancellation fee is just scaremongering and can
> not legally be enforced.
> </quote>
>
> FWIW I fully agree. If, as you say, the only way of moving to another
> Provider is by getting a MAC key from TT, then you need to email them &
> back it up immediately with a Recorded Delivery letter stating that as
> they are totally in breach of Contract then you require them to provide
> you with a MAC key within (say) seven days, failing which you will issue
> legal proceedings to rescind the Contract with immediate effect, that they
> will be held liable for all necessary costs incurred in so doing & that no
> further notice will be given.
>
> <snip>
> Joe Lee
>

Actually I did spot ABC's post - an oasis in amongst the rest...

Unfortunately, TT know better than to brick themselves at the threat of
legal action. The cost of pursuing it, exceeds the benefits gained. They'd
probably call the OP's bluff...


CJM

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Jun 21, 2006, 10:38:30 AM6/21/06
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"poster" <us-...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:44gg9217rmnatpbla...@4ax.com...

> On 20 Jun 2006 16:09, "CJM" <cjmn...@REMOVEMEyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> a competent IT person might have done a little more research.

His competence as an IT professional is not gauged by his choice of ISP. The
bottom line is that TT promised him something, and they didnt deliver. If
they couldn't deliver, they shouldnt have offered the service.

> For myself, I tried a number of different phone number/postcode pairs, to
> get at
> least some idea of when the service might be available for myself and some
> of my friends/relatives (though I recommended they hold off switching for
> a
> good 6 months from the first announcements, and not do anything 'rash').
>

Agreed. I did the same.

> but a little bit of effort to break up a post into a few
> paragraphs does a lot to assist reading it.

Agreed. But slagging off the OP is not really being that constructive. A
suggestion to break his posts up to make them clear would be a more
sensible.

> I glanced at the original and
> the follow-ups, but don't remember anyone getting 'abusive'...

I'm sorry, but commenting on the OP's professional abilities constitutes
abuse in my book. YMMV.


David Bradley

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Jun 21, 2006, 10:37:49 AM6/21/06
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On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 15:19:57 +0100, "CJM" <cjmn...@REMOVEMEyahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

OK then, so what's a solution that can be adopted?

David Bradley

CJM

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Jun 21, 2006, 11:33:53 AM6/21/06
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"David Bradley" <tro...@spamless.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2bmi92l3o6n63i1o7...@4ax.com...

>>>
>>
>>Actually I did spot ABC's post - an oasis in amongst the rest...
>>
>>Unfortunately, TT know better than to brick themselves at the threat of
>>legal action. The cost of pursuing it, exceeds the benefits gained. They'd
>>probably call the OP's bluff...
>>
>
> OK then, so what's a solution that can be adopted?
>

I suspect that there isn't a happy ending to this one.

Personally, I *would* cajole/reason with/intimidate TT with the threat of
legal action, and it might hurry things along a little bit but I'm not
optimistic.

They're not refusing to play ball, they are just going to be slow and
awkward about it.

The OP could try the small claims court. It will cost £30 (for a £300 claim)
and might provoke TT into prompt action (in which case the £30 is refunded),
but if they contest the claim a further £80 is payable and if they win, the
OP is £110 down. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure how a magistrate would
see it, but it might be worth a try.

CJM

CJM

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Jun 21, 2006, 11:59:39 AM6/21/06
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"CJM" <cjmn...@REMOVEMEyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4ft771F...@individual.net...

>
>and if they win, the OP is £110 down.

*they* meaning TT...


Joe Lee

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Jun 21, 2006, 6:11:39 PM6/21/06
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"CJM" <cjmn...@REMOVEMEyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4ft771F...@individual.net...

>
> "David Bradley" <tro...@spamless.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:2bmi92l3o6n63i1o7...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>
>>>Actually I did spot ABC's post - an oasis in amongst the rest...
>>>
>>>Unfortunately, TT know better than to brick themselves at the threat of
>>>legal action. The cost of pursuing it, exceeds the benefits gained.
>>>They'd
>>>probably call the OP's bluff...
>>>
>>
>> OK then, so what's a solution that can be adopted?
>>
>
> I suspect that there isn't a happy ending to this one.
>
> Personally, I *would* cajole/reason with/intimidate TT with the threat of
> legal action, and it might hurry things along a little bit but I'm not
> optimistic.
>
> They're not refusing to play ball, they are just going to be slow and
> awkward about it.
>
> The OP could try the small claims court. It will cost £30 (for a £300
> claim) and might provoke TT into prompt action (in which case the £30 is
> refunded), but if they contest the claim a further £80 is payable

It's now £100 to submit the allocation questionnaire.

and if they win, the
> OP is £110 down. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure how a magistrate would
> see it, but it might be worth a try.

If the Claim was defended (which I very much doubt) & it went to a hearing,
the District Judge would require the Claimant to provide proof of the
existence of the Contract & of his performance i.e. that payment has been
made to the Defendants in respect of the service & s/he would then require
the Defendants to provide evidence of the service having been provided. If
you look at the sequence of events as laid out by the OP, TT would need to
produce a considerable amount of supporting evidence to refute the Claim &
show they had in fact provided the service they Contracted for.

--
Joe Lee


Joe Lee

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Jun 21, 2006, 6:11:55 PM6/21/06
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"CJM" <cjmn...@REMOVEMEyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4ft2sdF...@individual.net...

They are doing that already. The OP has indicated a wish to terminate the
Contract & TT have told him
they will charge him £70 !

--
Joe Lee


poster

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Jun 22, 2006, 2:57:32 AM6/22/06
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On 21 Jun 2006, "CJM" <cjmn...@REMOVEMEyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>"Joe Lee" <invalid@noaddress> wrote in message

>> FWIW I fully agree. If, as you say, the only way of moving to another

>> Provider is by getting a MAC key from TT, then you need to email them &
>> back it up immediately with a Recorded Delivery letter stating that as
>> they are totally in breach of Contract then you require them to provide
>> you with a MAC key within (say) seven days, failing which you will issue
>> legal proceedings to rescind the Contract with immediate effect, that they
>> will be held liable for all necessary costs incurred in so doing & that no
>> further notice will be given.

>Unfortunately, TT know better than to brick themselves at the threat of

>legal action. The cost of pursuing it, exceeds the benefits gained. They'd
>probably call the OP's bluff...

The other (and logical alternative) is for TT to explain that as theirs is an
LLU service, they may not have any means of supplying a MAC (there was some
note on The Register that trials of an LLU -> BT migration procedure might
*start* at the *end of June*)... Getting in touch with Trading Standards
may be a better choice, either for advice or for them to take up action,
if it is appropriate...

Seeing as the broadband component is a free facility, no fees in respect of
it are charged and none would be refunded. So long as TT was providing the
services they do charge for (a phone line allowing chargeable or "included"
calls to be made, and calls to be received, with whatever network services
the OP wanted), it looks to me like they'd argue a delay caused by either
a contractor or BT in respect of getting their equipment into service in
the OP's local exchange. When I made some checks the earliest they would
offer broadband access was to be the end of June. I guess that the OP was
"lucky" in them having plans at the launch to have his exchange enabled much
earlier, though in the end, it didn't happen quite like that (not clear if OP
is connected via BT Wholesale for now with a view to switching to LLU - only
a check to see if the BT test login works [unless the upstream speed is not
one of the regular speeds available from BTW] would clarify that, IMO).

Just checked again, and instead of saying the end of June 06, TT now says:
"Your broadband should activate by the end of August 06"

In a city nearby, previously stated as end of July, TT now gives August.

CJM

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Jun 22, 2006, 4:56:58 AM6/22/06
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"poster" <us-...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:ffek92phib7rq0l6o...@4ax.com...

>
> The other (and logical alternative) is for TT to explain that as theirs is
> an
> LLU service, they may not have any means of supplying a MAC (there was
> some
> note on The Register that trials of an LLU -> BT migration procedure might
> *start* at the *end of June*)... Getting in touch with Trading Standards
> may be a better choice, either for advice or for them to take up action,
> if it is appropriate...
>

You may be right.


> Seeing as the broadband component is a free facility, no fees in respect
> of
> it are charged and none would be refunded. So long as TT was providing
> the
> services they do charge for (a phone line allowing chargeable or
> "included"
> calls to be made, and calls to be received, with whatever network services
> the OP wanted), it looks to me like they'd argue a delay caused by either
> a contractor or BT in respect of getting their equipment into service in
> the OP's local exchange.

This sounds very plausible, which doesnt bode well for the OP.


Weatherlawyer

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Jun 22, 2006, 5:19:07 AM6/22/06
to

poster wrote:

> Seeing as the broadband component is a free facility, no fees in respect of
> it are charged and none would be refunded. So long as TT was providing the
> services they do charge for (a phone line allowing chargeable or "included"
> calls to be made, and calls to be received, with whatever network services
> the OP wanted), it looks to me like they'd argue a delay caused by either
> a contractor or BT in respect of getting their equipment into service in
> the OP's local exchange.

Note paragraph spacing!!!!!

> When I made some checks the earliest they would
> offer broadband access was to be the end of June. I guess that the OP was
> "lucky" in them having plans at the launch to have his exchange enabled much
> earlier, though in the end, it didn't happen quite like that (not clear if OP
> is connected via BT Wholesale for now with a view to switching to LLU - only
> a check to see if the BT test login works [unless the upstream speed is not
> one of the regular speeds available from BTW] would clarify that, IMO).

The problem is that they are advertising the package as inclusive and
if the clause is in the small print, then the victims are still
protected are they not?

I want to migtate to a different ISP from AOL but I don't think I will
be using the TT service. What I might do is sign up to a few trial
offers and choose the best one. Anyone got a goodun?

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