Backup/spare VDSL router suggestions?

[Chris]

I'm in the market for getting a replacement/spare router in case my plusnet
one does croak it.

In my ADSL days, I had (still have actually) a TP-LINK Archer which was
perfect for my needs. What are current recommendations? <£100, a guest
network would be nice, dual band and gigabit ethernet. No need for bells
and whistles just need solid wifi for a family of four. My fibre bb speed
is solidly 34 down and 9 up on a 40/10 service.

[Woody]

Any TP-L is a good buy - look at the VR600 or VR900. There's a VR600 in
eBay for a starting price of £1.20 at the moment, and an Archer D2
(listed as an AC750) - a type which I have been using rock solid for
about 5 years - for £6.

[Chris]

That's a good point I hasn't thought of ebay.

[NY]

"Woody" <harro...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:s2dp8g$6pr$1...@dont-email.me...

My TP-Link TD-W9980 router was/is a good router. In our old house it seemed
to have good wifi coverage. It has guest network, port-forwarding that is
straightforward to set up, good line stats for diagnosing ADSL/VDSL faults.
When we bought our new house, we went with the Plusnet-supplied router, and
I never got round to configuring the TP-L router. But it's there as a spare.

[Mark Carver]

TP-W9970

https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/23298-tp-link-td-w9970/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAv6yCBhCLARIsABqJTjZsuhwtCmSN3RLRyTd0o2yTUe6Cb2z9rO8JuUFLVnaJaxObjlSNCCwaAoEkEALw_wcB

It's my primary router, and I also use it for a number of family members.

Very stable, one of my son's had an 'uptime' of over 2 years with his,
(only then that record was broken because of a power cut)

[Chris]

Looks nice but doesn't have gigabit ethernet unfortunately. I have a
fileserver that connects to my one wired desktop which benefits from the
gigabit speeds.

[Mark Carver]

On 12/03/2021 09:49, Chris wrote:
> 4 down and 9 up on a 40/10 service.
>> TP-W9970
>>
>> https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/23298-tp-link-td-w9970/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAv6yCBhCLARIsABqJTjZsuhwtCmSN3RLRyTd0o2yTUe6Cb2z9rO8JuUFLVnaJaxObjlSNCCwaAoEkEALw_wcB
>>
>> It's my primary router, and I also use it for a number of family members.
>>
>> Very stable, one of my son's had an 'uptime' of over 2 years with his,
>> (only then that record was broken because of a power cut)
> Looks nice but doesn't have gigabit ethernet unfortunately. I have a
> fileserver that connects to my one wired desktop which benefits from the
> gigabit speeds.
>

Ah, yes, I see, In that case, as NY said, its bigger brother the W9800
then !

[Chris Green]

I have one of those and several other TP-Link routers etc.

If you use them in what TP-Link regard as normal configurations they
work well, however if you want to do anything a bit different they can
have problems.

Specifically, in my case, I have a separate DHCP/DNS server on my LAN
so DHCP was turned off in the TP-Link router. This was fine except
that the TP-Link firewall prevented the DHCP broadcast requests from
WiFi connected devices from getting to my DHCP server. Turning the
firewall off completely made everything work but that's not a very
practical solution. I now have a Draytek router configured the same
way (no DHCP) and that works perfectly.

--
Chris Green
·

[Graham J]

Chris Green wrote:

[snip]

> I now have a Draytek router configured the same
> way (no DHCP) and that works perfectly.
>

Much better diagnostics with a Draytek, also. Traffic graphing, good
DSL stats, syslog to server or local USB memory, bandwidth management,
etc ...

--
Graham J

[Mark Carver]

However, a total overkill for +90% of users.

I wasn't terribly impressed when I obtained a Draytek VDSL router. It
syncs at values about 15% lower than other routers, (and this is on
super stable lines)

[Graham J]

Mark Carver wrote:

[snip]

> However, a total overkill for +90% of users.
>
> I wasn't terribly impressed when I obtained a Draytek VDSL router. It
> syncs at values about 15% lower than other routers, (and this is on
> super stable lines)

They design for reliability. Having said that on long rural ADSL
service where sync speeds are about 1 MBits/sec I do see that a 15% drop
is significant. Otherwise it hardly relevant ...


--
Graham J

[Mark Carver]

For a device that is almost infinitely configurable, it's  strange you
can't adjust the sync speed vs reliability trade off !

[Bob Eager]

They publish different versions of each firmware release, which set up
the modem differently.

[Chris Green]

Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

My 2860n bounces against the 'speed limiter' on FTTC, i.e. I get 80Mbs
down and 10Mbs up (Down Stream : 77255Kbps / Up Stream : 19999Kbps)
Usually that down is nearer 80.

--
Chris Green
·

[Chris Green]

Also a lot more expensive of course! If you want a basic router a
TP-Link is often a good choice, it's only if you want to do more
unusual things that they're not so good.

--
Chris Green
·

[Graham J]

Generally you can, by increasing the SNR Margin which reduces speed via
a telnet session. But you can't sacrifice SNR Margin to get more speed,
sadly.

--
Graham J

[Graham J]

That is only because you are near to the green cabinet. Mine is 1.1km
away so I see:

Downstream Upstream
Actual Rate 19998 Kbps 2841 Kbps
Attainable Rate 25065 Kbps 2848 Kbps
Path Mode Fast Fast
Interleve Depth 1 1
Actual PSD 11. 6 dB 6. 0 dB

Near End Far End
Trellis ON ON
Bitswap ON ON
ReTx 0 1
SNR Margin 10 dB 6 dB
Attenuation 27 dB 31 dB

... etc


--
Graham J

[Roderick Stewart]

I can vouch for both, as we have one of each in two households. My son
has a TP-Link WD9980 and I have a Draytek 2762, and both have been
giving rock solid performance with no issues.

I *think* one of the USB sockets on the Draytek can be configured to
accept a mobile dongle and switch to it if the VDSL feed ever fails,
but the system has been so devoid of trouble it doesn't seem like a
matter of great urgency to investigate the details.

Rod.

[notya...@gmail.com]

I have thought about a Draytek, but it would be overkill for my needs (and £££) so I "make do" with a [free] BT HH6. When it arrived, I kept the previous HH5 and returned the earlier versions in the mail back bag they provided for recycling.

[Graham J]

Roderick Stewart wrote:

[snip]

>
> I *think* one of the USB sockets on the Draytek can be configured to
> accept a mobile dongle and switch to it if the VDSL feed ever fails,
> but the system has been so devoid of trouble it doesn't seem like a
> matter of great urgency to investigate the details.

I've used the USB port of a V2830 for a mobile dongle where I needed to
provide a service during the couple of weeks before the connection of a
phone line to the premises. It worked pretty well.

Being a fairly rural area the signal was poor, so the dongle had to be
connected via a USB lead and stuck onto a window facing towards the
nearest mast.


--
Graham J

[Woody]

Question: the only issue that I have come up against with a HH5 or 6 is
that the wi-fi channel selections are very limited. You get a choice of
1/6/11 or 2/7/12 etc which is not much good if you have CCI and it is
using any of these channels - or am I wrong?

[Chris]

Same here. I do have an old router, but it's from my ADSL days.

[Bob Eager]

I have this set up on a 2860. It works fine. Never had to use it in
anger. The 2860 is in a rack, so I have a USB lead run up the wall with
the dongle hanging from the picture rail.

[Graham J]

Woody wrote:

[snip]

>
> Question: the only issue that I have come up against with a HH5 or 6 is
> that the wi-fi channel selections are very limited. You get a choice of
> 1/6/11 or 2/7/12 etc which is not much good if you have CCI and it is
> using any of these channels - or am I wrong?

The channels overlap, and the only way to ensure that there's no
interference is to allow a gap of 5 between you and any adjacent system.

In an urban environment this is to all intents and purposes impossible.

But then WiFi has always been an over-sold technology.

--
Graham J

[Chris Green]

Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> Woody wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >
> > Question: the only issue that I have come up against with a HH5 or 6 is
> > that the wi-fi channel selections are very limited. You get a choice of
> > 1/6/11 or 2/7/12 etc which is not much good if you have CCI and it is
> > using any of these channels - or am I wrong?
>
>
> The channels overlap, and the only way to ensure that there's no
> interference is to allow a gap of 5 between you and any adjacent system.
>
> In an urban environment this is to all intents and purposes impossible.
>

However WiFi devices 'time share' the chaneels of course, otherwise
it wouldn't work at all. So you can have everything using channel 1
and it will work OK, just a bit slower than if you use different
channels for different router/SSIDs.

--
Chris Green
·

[notya...@gmail.com]

Depends on the precise Draytek model, but even ten years ago I set up an office with a Draytek (2930/60?) on a 50 (later 100)Mbps Virgin cable modem and an 8Mbps (later increased) BT ADSL as a back up and ironically for Voip. We bought a 3G USB dongle and a cable, but never lost both connections at the same time so never had to rush out and buy a SIM. Sadly the Draytek was partly trashed by a nearby lightning strike, but easily replaced.

A colleague has bee using a 4G modem successfully for well over a year in a location where the ADSL is dire (1.5Mbps) an there is a 4G (now 5G) mast 300m away in line of sight (gets 15 - 30Mbps).

[Graham J]

notya...@gmail.com wrote:

[snip]

>
> Depends on the precise Draytek model, but even ten years ago I set up an office with a Draytek (2930/60?) on a 50 (later 100)Mbps Virgin cable modem and an 8Mbps (later increased) BT ADSL as a back up and ironically for Voip. We bought a 3G USB dongle and a cable, but never lost both connections at the same time so never had to rush out and buy a SIM. Sadly the Draytek was partly trashed by a nearby lightning strike, but easily replaced.
>

> A colleague has been using a 4G modem successfully for well over a year in a location where the ADSL is dire (1.5Mbps) an there is a 4G (now 5G) mast 300m away in line of sight (gets 15 - 30Mbps).
>

Yes, the Dayteks are vey flexible.

But the rural farming customers I see often have both dire ADSL and dire
4G, for example the nearest mast being 15 miles away and the landscape
although flat has a clump of trees in the direct line of sight.

For one we used a contractor to put a 4G modem on top of a pole on a big
barn roof, so that it's about 30 metres above ground. It does work.
Typical speeds are 6 Mbits/sec download and 15 Mbits/sec upload - why
this perverse asymmetry I don't now but I suspect congestion.

And it used CGNAT so the public IP address sometimes get blocked in the
mailserver and while everything else on the internet works, we can't
send or receive emails.

It's not a bad price, about £25 per month; but a further £19.40 per
month for a static public IP.


--
Graham J

[notya...@gmail.com]

He has another router [Nighthawk] and kept the ADSL connection for resilience. The SIM is in a Teltonika 4G modem positioned near the entrance and there is a shortish aerial lead to an external aerial on the side of the premises facing the base station. There are three MNO's co-located, so he had a choice of provider, but picked 3 because they were cheaper(~£20 per month), their lesser coverage is a non issue and because they don't charge extra for a business account.