FRITZ!Box 7530 unreliability

[Graham J]

Friend lost her internet connection (with Zen) the other day.

Zen talked her through re-establishing the correct connection username &
password; failure continued. FRITZ!Box 7530 router reported "failure to
establish PPPoE connection to server" or words to that effect. DSL sync
was good.

Zen agree to send out a replacement FRITZ!Box 7530.

Before the replacement arrives, I attend, taking a spare (Technicolor
TG588v v2) router. I investigate the FRITZ!Box 7530 and see good sync
but the same PPPoE failure. So I connect my spare - good connection
established immediately.

A couple of days later, Zen's replacement FRITZ!Box 7530 arrives.
TR-069 provisioning fails (see separate discussion here) but I suspect
Zen did not configure their ACS with the serial number of the
replacement device. Manual configuration of connection username &
password then establishes a good connection.

I take away the failing FRITZ!Box 7530 and several days later test it on
a Plusnet ADSL and a Zen VDSL service, configuring the connection
credentials appropriately for each in turn. Both connections work OK.

So the FRITZ!Box 7530 is intermittently faulty.

Has anybody seen a similar fault with these routers?

--
Graham J

[Roderick Stewart]

On Fri, 2 Sep 2022 09:58:34 +0100, Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk>
wrote:

I've only been using mine for a couple of months now, but no problems
with it yet. In fact, it gives a slightly better wireless signal than
the Draytek modem/router I'd been using before, despite not having
external aerials. This was unexpected, but if it works, it works.
Also, for the fortnight or so before the fibre upgrade, I got slightly
higher speeds on VDSL.

I've seen several unused ones offered on Ebay, so I guess some users
prefer to continue using whatever they already have, and don't want
the free box that Zen send them. If you're concerned about
reliability, this might be a way to acquire a cheap spare that could
be used immediately without even waiting for the free relacement.

I suspected that Zen didn't configure their system with serial
numbers, but it's interesting to have this confirmed.

Rod.

[Java Jive]

On 02/09/2022 09:58, Graham J wrote:
>
> So the FRITZ!Box 7530 is intermittently faulty.
>
> Has anybody seen a similar fault with these routers?

I don't have any experience with those routers, but ...

Hot weather? Often they are on a window sill in the sun, and I've had
various routers that seemed to go flaky in hot weather - Cisco,
Draytek, Zyxel ...

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

[Graham J]

Roderick Stewart wrote:

[snip]

>
> I suspected that Zen didn't configure their system with serial
> numbers, but it's interesting to have this confirmed.

All their documentation says that they do, but this may only apply to
routers shipped from the factory for new orders. Anything that comes
via a less formal route probably gets forgotten.


--
Graham J

[Graham J]

Java Jive wrote:
> On 02/09/2022 09:58, Graham J wrote:
>>
>> So the FRITZ!Box 7530 is intermittently faulty.
>>
>> Has anybody seen a similar fault with these routers?
>
> I don't have any experience with those routers, but ...
>
> Hot weather?  Often they are on a window sill in the sun, and I've had
> various routers that seemed to go flaky in hot weather  -  Cisco,
> Draytek, Zyxel ...

No, shaded corner, but nevertheless a warm living room.


--
Graham J

[Roderick Stewart]

On Fri, 2 Sep 2022 15:19:59 +0100, Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk>
wrote:

It's certainly possible to use routers from other sources as that's
what I've always done for the past 15 years or so. I never realised
there was an automatic system, so have always just entered the details
given to me in the introductory letter.

The Fritzbox was sent to me for the fibre upgrade, and I just entered
the details manually as before, so I don't know if it would have done
it automatically if I hadn't. There are several things I could try to
see if it would, such as a factory restore, or maybe trying another
router without entering any info, but so far my curiosity is not
sufficient to justify messing with a working system.

Rod.

[Jeff Layman]

My 7530 has been in use for 3 years. I doubt I've had to reboot it more
than half-a-dozen times during that time. Even then, when I've "lost"
connection to Zen, is it my laptop's OS or Wi-Fi, the 7530, the line to
Zen, or something at Zen which has resulted in a temporary loss of
connection? Sometimes switching to the guest Wi-Fi for a minute or two
and then back solves the problem. Sometimes switching the laptop Wi-Fi
of and on or, if necessary rebooting the laptop solves it.

It might be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, but turning things off
and on seems to solve most issues quickly and easily.

--

Jeff

[T i m]

On 02/09/2022 09:58, Graham J wrote:

<snip>

> So the FRITZ!Box 7530 is intermittently faulty.
>
> Has anybody seen a similar fault with these routers?
>

FWIW (and that's probably little) but I've had and been constantly using
my Fritz!Box router for 14 years and I've only just taken it off-line
because of throughput issues (I don't think they expected broadband
speeds like 100 / 10 in those days). ;-)

The only faults it has had (that I'm aware of) is the supplied PSU
failed after maybe 10 years and it seems to hold onto IP leases,
requiring a little manual clear-up if I've been playing with lots of
PC's etc.

Given it's reliability I would be very tempted to buy a current model,
especially if it supports VOIP, ADSL2 and an external modem, in case I
leave VM and do ADSL > FTTP.

Cheers, T i m

[Graham J]

T i m wrote:

[snip]

>
> The only faults it has had (that I'm aware of) is the supplied PSU
> failed after maybe 10 years and it seems to hold onto IP leases,
> requiring a little manual clear-up if I've been playing with lots of
> PC's etc.

Holding onto IP leases is a deliberate feature. Other routers allow you
to manage it, it's called "binding", or sometimes "reservation"; so you
can choose whether or not to bind an IP to a given MAC address.


--
Graham J

[Roderick Stewart]

On Fri, 2 Sep 2022 18:26:35 +0100, Jeff Layman <Je...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

If you're using a wi-fi connection on a Windows laptop, try a utility
called InSSIDer to check for wireless signal levels, or possible
overlaps with a neighbour's signal.

Ideally you should always have something that is connected, or can be
connected, to the router by ethernet cable, so when you lose
connection you can check if it's local or internet.

When you lose the wi-fi connection to the laptop, do you also lose the
wi-fi connection to your phone? (or tablet, or whatever else).

Rod.

[Roderick Stewart]

On Sat, 3 Sep 2022 08:31:14 +0100, T i m <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

>Given it's reliability I would be very tempted to buy a current model,
>especially if it supports VOIP, ADSL2 and an external modem, in case I
>leave VM and do ADSL > FTTP.

If you move to Zen, you won't need to buy one.

Rod.

[Jeff Layman]

I'm using Linux Mint. Thanks for the tip about InSSIDer. There are some
Linux alternatives at
<https://alternativeto.net/software/inssider/?platform=linux>. I'll try
LinSSID if I run into an issue again.

> Ideally you should always have something that is connected, or can be
> connected, to the router by ethernet cable, so when you lose
> connection you can check if it's local or internet.

I can easily used a wired connection (if I can remember where I've put
the leads!).

> When you lose the wi-fi connection to the laptop, do you also lose the
> wi-fi connection to your phone? (or tablet, or whatever else).

It hasn't happened for some time so I really can't remember. The TV is
connected by WiFi so next time the laptop loses connection I'll see if
the TV has lost it too.

As an aside, routers/modem can produce some strange issues. I'd been
with Zen connecting via WiFi to a Technicolor TG582N for several years
without problem. I happened to buy a weatherstation which connected to
weather websites and automatically uploaded weather data to them. But it
could only do that via WiFi (no wired connection possible), and had to
be set up using a smartphone and the weatherstation manufacturer's app.
The final stage involved the weatherstation connecting to the router by
entering it's SSID and password. It always failed at that stage. After
hours fiddling around and getting nowhere (even sending the
weatherstation back to the manufacturers in Germany! They said there was
nothing wrong with it), I was at a loss as to what was going wrong.

By sheer chance we got a new TV at the time, and during setup this also
failed to connect to the Technicolor's WiFi. I dug out my old Sitecom
router and tried that. Both the TV and the weatherstation connected via
WiFi without problem! I should add that I had had no problem previously
connecting with the Technicolor's WiFi to my laptop or smartphone.

Shortly after I upgraded to Zen's FTTC and connection via the FRITZ!box
went without any problem whatsoever.

--

Jeff

[T i m]

Yeahbut if it said it had a IP least time of say 1 day and it's unused,
shouldn't it release it after one day to allow it to be used by another
device?

I get the idea of statically binding an IP to a MAC but on my Fritz!Box
I believe that's done manually on a device by device basis?

I haven't used that, preferring to manage the DHCP scope to say .200-250
then setting static ip address on everything else from 100-199 (in
blocks by equipment type, HA - ESP32's, Servers / NAS's etc). My DG is
either .100 for VM or .101 for 4G etc.

This way, if I change routers I just need to set the router IP and the
DHCP scope and I'm back online again. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Graham J]

Remember, this router is designed for the least skilled user. Hence
TR-069 for those who can't get into the management page and put in the
credentials. Also, many PCs (used to) need a consistent IP address for
their network printers, and an indefinite lease time resolved this
problem also.


--
Graham J

[T i m]

So would it be the case that *someone* would have to clear the leases
manually once any automatic ip address allocation (DHCP) range (scope)
had been exhausted, as seems to be the case here?

I'm not questioning the logic of the feature (even if only in 'those
days') but just that it seems self-defeating? How would these
non-technical people resolve this?

I get how a lease might continue outside of expiry, making it sticky as
such, *if* there were still unallocated addresses within the scope,
expired and re-issued on a FIFO basis?

Cheers, T i m

[Neil Fossett Design]

Hi Graham,

Been having a similar issue to you. Zen Fibre 500 has been working away with no problems since November. Suddenly has a loss of service. Fast forward to Jan 2023 and still no service. Multiple diagnostics from Zen shows that everything should be working fine, replacement loan router was sent out and plugged in today and the same issue. Tech support have logged an authentication fault and an engineer is due on Monday. The errors received seem to be PPPoE timeout errors.

Did you ever get to the bottom of the cause?

[Graham J]

Neil Fossett Design wrote:

[snip]

>> So the FRITZ!Box 7530 is intermittently faulty.
>>
>> Has anybody seen a similar fault with these routers?
>>
>> --
>> Graham J
>
>
> Hi Graham,
>
> Been having a similar issue to you. Zen Fibre 500 has been working away with no problems since November. Suddenly has a loss of service. Fast forward to Jan 2023 and still no service. Multiple diagnostics from Zen shows that everything should be working fine, replacement loan router was sent out and plugged in today and the same issue. Tech support have logged an authentication fault and an engineer is due on Monday. The errors received seem to be PPPoE timeout errors.
>
> Did you ever get to the bottom of the cause?

No, but I would happily replace the FRITZ!Box with a better router if a
similar problem recurs. In fact for commercial customers I would insist
on supplying my preferred router before agreeing to support them.

I like to use F8Lure to monitor clients' Internet connections - but the
FRITZ!Box does not respond reliably to pings from the Internet.

Unless you are using the FRITZ!Box for Zen's proprietary VoIP service
then any Ethernet router will be OK - but of course you will have to
configure the Zen username & password into it yourself. I like to use
the Draytek Vigor range because of the multiple LAN-to-LAN VPN
capability as well as their good diagnostic and management tools, but
for most people they are overkill.

For you it may be worth buying the cheapest Ethernet router you can find
and using it to test your service. If that fails then the
authentication fault is not at your end.

--
Graham J

[Graham J]

Neil Fossett Design wrote:

[snip]

>
>

> Hi Graham,
>
> Been having a similar issue to you. Zen Fibre 500 has been working away with no problems since November. Suddenly has a loss of service. Fast forward to Jan 2023 and still no service. Multiple diagnostics from Zen shows that everything should be working fine, replacement loan router was sent out and plugged in today and the same issue. Tech support have logged an authentication fault and an engineer is due on Monday. The errors received seem to be PPPoE timeout errors.
>
> Did you ever get to the bottom of the cause?
>

I started this thread last September.

Today same friend reports internet connection failure, with a few
minutes of a good connection at about 8:30 am. She has been on to Zen
technical support who talked her through a factory reset - no improvement.

So I attend, taking the old FRITZ!Box 7530 router which had been taken
out of service last September, and which was subsequently shown to work
reliably at my home.

New FRITZ!Box 7530 router reports good DSL sync but no internet
connection. Username is start@zen (I think), resulting from factory
reset. Password unknown.

I configure the correct Zen username and password. Router reports
internet connection failed, unknown reason (or words to that effect).

I connect the old FRITZ!Box 7530 configured with correct Zen username
and password. This time, good sync, and router reports internet
connection failed and "failure to establish PPPoE connection to server"
or words to that effect. So same fault as seen last September.

I configure old router with:

Username = bt_test@startup_domain
Password = no password required

This should connect, get a strange IP, and allow accces only to
<http://www.bt.net/digitaldemo>

No connection, same PPPoE failure message.

I reconnect the new FRITZ!Box 7530 router. Success - internet
connection is OK. So I power it off, wait a minute, power on - as
before good DSL sync, but "failure to establish PPPoE connection to
server".

Ring Zen, they arrange for Openreach to send a technician tomorrow morning.

Meanwhile I bring old router home and test on my own Zen connection
where it works. It also works with my friend's Zen username and
password - which is probably to be expected.

So there was probably never anything wrong with the old router in the
first place, and the problem is with some part of the Openreach system.
So will their technician realise this and be able to resolve the issue?

Watch this space.


--
Graham J

[grinch]

> Username = bt_test@startup_domain
> Password = no password required
>
> This should connect, get a strange IP, and allow accces only to
> <http://www.bt.net/digitaldemo>
>
> No connection, same PPPoE failure message.
>
> I reconnect the new FRITZ!Box 7530 router.  Success - internet
> connection is OK.  So I power it off, wait a minute, power on - as
> before good DSL sync, but "failure to establish PPPoE connection to
> server".
>
> Ring Zen, they arrange for Openreach to send a technician tomorrow morning.
>
> Meanwhile I bring old router home and test on my own Zen connection
> where it works.  It also works with my friend's Zen username and
> password - which is probably to be expected.
>
> So there was probably never anything wrong with the old router in the
> first place, and the problem is with some part of the Openreach system.
> So will their technician realise this and be able to resolve the issue?
>
> Watch this space.
>
>

As/if you have a working dsl circuit there is nothing the tech can do
because that is not where the fault lies.

PPPoE authentication works via a " RADIUS " server system . So when your
router tries to get auth it talks to the BT system which should then
send the auth request to Zen's radius server.

It sounds like this is not working somewhere along the chain.

As the router works getting auth on a different Zen circuit then that
points the finger at something wrong with the BTOR system.

This is a problem in their IT network and not usually a customer circuit
issue ,but note the usually word here.

You probably need to get Zen to ask BTOR to rebuild the circuit on their
system,which for good reasons they wont do until they have proved that
it is not an end customer issue.

[Graham J]

grinch wrote:

[snip]

>
> You probably need to get Zen to ask BTOR to rebuild the circuit on their
> system,which for good reasons they wont do until they have proved that
> it is not an end  customer issue.

Openreach technician arrived 9am today. Quickly confirmed PPPoE issue.

Rang his Indian support centre and arranged to change the port in the
green cabinet. Went to do so, internet connection OK by about 10 am.
Presumably the port in the green cabinet was faulty.

Do Openreach keep a record of this? When would they swap out the whole
unit?


--
Graham J

[grinch]

>
> Rang his Indian support centre and arranged to change the port in the
> green cabinet.  Went to do so, internet connection OK by about 10 am.
> Presumably the port in the green cabinet was faulty.
>
> Do Openreach keep a record of this?  When would they swap out the whole
> unit?
>
>

As some of them are made by Huawei and we have been told by the USA we
have to remove them will they even bother ?

The one I used to be connected to must be at least 10 years old probably
more nearer 15 years old.

[Martin Brown]

I'd expect them to leave well alone until they run out of usable
channels - marking any defective sockets so they don't get used again.
Much like they tag defective line pairs as "do not use". There are a lot
of them in our local copper circuits corroded to hell by water ingress.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown