Tiscali - Fair Use part 2
Cog
See:
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.telecom.broadband/msg/1fbd388c89173aad
This new warning is despite the fact that I haven't used streaming
internet radio at all. Nothing but the web and usenet (no binaries, purely
text discussions)... no downloads... nothing, during peak time,
Tiscali's fair use warnings appear to be pulled out of their arses. I can
only assume that Tiscali's measure of "exceptionaly high" appears to be
anyone who uses the internet for more than checking emails once or twice a
day during peak time. I don't think it's even worth the effort of querying
their warning. I'll just be treated to another form-letter email telling
me nothing of use.
I can only hold myself up as an example of why no-one should sign-up with
Tiscali. What a joke.
Pete M Williams
"Vhit" <inv...@vhit.co.uk.INVALID> wrote in message
news:MPG.1e070ef12...@no-cancel.newsreader.com...
> <uk.telecom.broadband , Cog , n...@realatall.com>
>
> I've been with tiscali about 6 months and i've never received a fair
> warning from them yet .
>
> While not defending them - wouldnt a lot more people be posting about it
> to this newsgroup if what happened to you was the average .
>
Maybe down to the reason that most of the users don't know what a newsgroup
is ;-)
Cog
> I've been with tiscali about 6 months and i've never received a fair
> warning from them yet .
>
> While not defending them - wouldnt a lot more people be posting about it
> to this newsgroup if what happened to you was the average .
The only other possible reason is that they are warning me about my use
OUTSIDE peak hours (which is very high), but they repeatedly state
explicitly that use outside peak is unlimited: "You may upload and
download as you wish outside the peak hours". The only explanations are
that they are:
a) Lying about the unlimited outside peak claims
b) Varying what they consider exceptional according to the exchange --
meaning that if you live on a contended exchange you get warned for
virtually anything
c) They are measuring it incorrectly
I'm quite serious when I say that I have done nothing but web/text usenet
and haven't downloaded anything during peak time at all. Whatever they are
doing, I'm now in a situation where apparently my only option is to not
use the Internet at all during peak times... or I'll be put on this shared
pipe next month, despite being conscientious and careful about observing
their FUP. I may as well have not bothered and just left the downloads
going 24/7. So much for making the effort, eh?
The Caretaker
Are you using the same 'Peak Times' as they are ?
--
The Caretaker .........
Daniel
ISP. If you are still in your 12 month contract have a look at the terms of
this warning. Most providers when they issue warnings are happy for you to
move to another ISP.
Dan
John
"Cog" <n...@realatall.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.12....@realatall.com...
I put it to the thread that Tiscali are sending out nonesense 'Fair Use
Policy' (FUP) warnings to many people who hardly ever use their pathetic
slow broadband service, so that once they have had their three warnings,
they can then reduce your bandwidth even more during peak times by sticking
them on the 'so called bad boy pipe'. I think that is all its about. Three
warnings and your on lower bandwidth with the other people who are suposedly
abusing the system at peak hours. Just for the record, I am one of the
people they have targetted for heavy use during peak times. The fact of it
is, I have taken every effort to ensure I don't break their rules of the
Fair Use Policy, by installing automatic bandwidth control during their FUP
hours, nevertheless they still send me a warning. I suspect they are just
sending them to everyone randomly. I know of several other light users who
have been targetted too.
Cog
> I put it to the thread that Tiscali are sending out nonesense 'Fair Use
> Policy' (FUP) warnings to many people who hardly ever use their pathetic
> slow broadband service, so that once they have had their three warnings,
> they can then reduce your bandwidth even more during peak times by
> sticking them on the 'so called bad boy pipe'. I think that is all its
> about. Three warnings and your on lower bandwidth with the other people
> who are suposedly abusing the system at peak hours. Just for the
> record, I am one of the people they have targetted for heavy use during
> peak times. The fact of it is, I have taken every effort to ensure I
> don't break their rules of the Fair Use Policy, by installing automatic
> bandwidth control during their FUP hours, nevertheless they still send
> me a warning. I suspect they are just sending them to everyone
> randomly. I know of several other light users who have been targetted
> too.
I'll be honest: I don't have any real complaints about the performance of
the network. I simply don't see how they can possibly claim my usage
during peak periods is "exceptionally high". I'm using about as much
bandwidth during peak periods as I did when I used dial-up with Wannadoo:
Slashdot
Wikipedia editing
Usenet discussions
That's it. No downloads. No P2P. No streaming. Nothing. To claim that my
use is exceptional is to claim that using my connection for anything other
than checking email is verboten. I just want to warn other people that
signing up for Tiscali based on their Fair Use Policy is a mug's decision.
If you, like me, just want to browse web sites and discuss stuff on usenet
during peak hours -- forget it, you will be violating their FUP.
J...@smyth.invalid
>This new warning is despite the fact that I haven't used streaming
>internet radio at all. Nothing but the web and usenet (no binaries, purely
>text discussions)... no downloads... nothing, during peak time,
Check your usenet software settings. I had mine (Agent) set to "Always
get complete list of servers available messages" for each newsgroup,
for a while, and because my newserver seems to hold messages for a
couple of years, I was finding that each time I'd request new headers,
for each group, it would download about 20 megs even if there were
only a few new messages!
I'm not sure how good Tiscali's news server is, but this is obviously
an easy way to use a lot more bandwidth than you would think.
Cog
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:04:09 +0000, Cog <n...@realatall.com> wrote:
>
>>This new warning is despite the fact that I haven't used streaming
>>internet radio at all. Nothing but the web and usenet (no binaries,
>>purely text discussions)... no downloads... nothing, during peak time,
>
> Check your usenet software settings. I had mine (Agent) set to "Always
> get complete list of servers available messages" for each newsgroup, for
> a while, and because my newserver seems to hold messages for a couple of
> years, I was finding that each time I'd request new headers, for each
> group, it would download about 20 megs even if there were only a few new
> messages! I'm not sure how good Tiscali's news server is,
Dreadful.
> but this is obviously an easy way to use a lot more bandwidth than you
> would think.
No, definitely not doing that. Thanks though.
Cog
> Cog wrote:
>> I'm quite serious when I say that I have done nothing but web/text
>> usenet and haven't downloaded anything during peak time at all.
>> Whatever they are doing, I'm now in a situation where apparently my
>> only option is to not use the Internet at all during peak times... or
>> I'll be put on this shared pipe next month, despite being conscientious
>> and careful about observing their FUP. I may as well have not bothered
>> and just left the downloads going 24/7. So much for making the effort,
>> eh?
>
> Are you using the same 'Peak Times' as they are ?
Checked. Double checked. Triple checked. Quadruple checked. It was the
first thing I thought of.
"Peak hours are from 6pm to 11pm on weekdays and 12pm until 4pm on
weekends." -- their FUP and their warning emails
It's Me
I have come to the conclusion T&C are not worth the page they are written
on, they will only change again once you leave the page.
I think something needs to be done about this and if they use yearly
contracts you should get a yearly notice of any change that you consider is
worse than the original, if better you can actively agree the change.
I think that would then make monthly contracts the norm.
Anyway I am with Zen and since joining I have had one change of T&C and it
was just so minor can't even remember what it was, but when they changed it
they highlighted the old and new change so you could see exactly what it
was, how refreshing that was I thought.
Clint Sharp
<n...@realatall.com> writes
>Yet another fair use warning from Tiscali...
>
>See:
>http://groups.google.com/group/uk.telecom.broadband/msg/1fbd388c89173aad
>
>This new warning is despite the fact that I haven't used streaming
>internet radio at all. Nothing but the web and usenet (no binaries, purely
>text discussions)... no downloads... nothing, during peak time,
using your connection?
--
Clint Sharp
Cog
No. Speedtouch USB modem on a Fedora Core 4 Linux box.
Cog
> I don't think it's even worth the effort of querying their warning. I'll
> just be treated to another form-letter email telling me nothing of use.
I know I'm pissing in the wind, but I changed my mind. I'll post the
response:
To: broadban...@uk.tiscali.com
On Mon, 2005-12-12 at 03:34 +0000, Tiscali Broadband Team wrote:
[snip]
> If you do not reduce your usage during these peak times we will manage
> your usage during these periods. This means that you will share
> bandwidth with other heavy users during peak times instead of sharing
> bandwidth with normal users. Your service will continue to be unlimited,
> but by sharing bandwidth with other heavy users you are likely to
> experience slower speeds during peak times.
>
> If you have a query regarding this letter then you can email
> broadban...@uk.tiscali.com
I certainly do I have queries. My activity DURING PEAK HOURS over the last
month has been mostly:
Reading http://slashdot.org
Editing Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org and discussing things on Usenet
(NOTE: no binary downloading, just text-based discussions).
So: no downloads, no P2P, no streaming radio/tv. You'll note that none of
these activities involve sustained downloading/uploading.
So... my questions to you are:
1. What was my bandwidth usage DURING PEAK HOURS in the period which
generated this warning. A number in megabytes please -- "exceptional" is
simply not good enough.
2. What is the limit for bandwidth usage DURING PEAK HOURS which you
classify as "exceptional" -- again a number in megabytes, please.
You have to understand my position here. I signed up for Tiscali based on
your FUP. IMO, it sounded fair and reasonable, and I had/have every
intention of following it. My usage OUTSIDE of peak hours is high, and as
you state quite clearly this is fine... I have conscientiously disabled
any P2P and avoided downloading anything DURING peak hours... only to
still find myself warned. So you see, from my point of view your warning
appears to rule out perfectly normal web-usage during peak time. If this
is the case I have no doubt that others thinking of signing up for Tiscali
would be interested to know.
I look forward to an explanation and answers to my questions. Please note:
I have already familiarised myself with (and followed last month) your
advice regarding reducing my usage... there is no need to send it again in
response to this email.
Thank you.
John
Basically they don't want anyone using their connection between 6pm and 11pm
weekdays and 12pm to 4pm at weekends. Thats the top and bottom of it all.
I thought the FUP was about 'reducing bandwidth at peak times'. If the user
does that, then I don't see how they could possibly be breaking the FUP.
My computer being a family computer, means that I am not always around to
constantly check the programs in use. Instead of removing the P2P programs,
I installed bandwidth control and ensured that the bandwidth was controlled
to 2k up and down, between the hours of the FUP, but they still sent me an
FUP warning email. This suggests that Tiscali are not trying to reduce
bandwidth at peak times, but instead are trying to ban use of certain
software at peak times. If you are controlling the bandwidth used at peak
periods, I don't see the problem? Why should Tiscali preach to you about
which software you can and cannot use, if you are sensibly controlling the
use of your bandwidth to a reasonable level, the software in use should not
matter.
I think what we should be asking Tiscali, is whether 2kbytes upstream and
2kbytes downstream too much use of the service during the hours of the FUP?
That's the amount of data that was being transferred here last month within
the hours of the FUP. That is less than dial-up speeds and how they come to
the conclusion that I was breaking the FUP by using a couple of kilobytes
per second, of my 1MB connection, I am amazed!!! My useage was less than 1
percent of the total available bandwidth. If this in unnaceptable, then
surely they are saying I cannot use the connection at all during peak times?
I am very disappointed in the way Tiscali are targetting people who are
playing the game with them, and this should be a major warning to anyone who
is considering them as an ISP in the future.
It seems to me that they are just trying to stop everyone using the internet
at peak times FULL STOP.
It's Me
Sounds even worse than BT and that's saying something. If it's realy that
bad why don't you just leave and find another ISP.
Sean Bergin
> Tiscali. What a joke.
omigod! What have I done, my brother got a Tiscali disk with his new base
model Dell at the beginning of December (no modem in the Dell, so why the
disk?) I didn't look into it as new to usenet after a long break. I have
since had a very NTL experience with their customer
service/smarttalk?/cancellation line, round the houses, none of the "helpful
staff" bar one was able to talk sense. My bruv is now tied in for the year
and his "free" modem has not yet arrived. Doh! I advise against Tiscali, at
least for the moment.
BTW a friends sister I saw on Saturday has had an ongoing problem with
Wannadoo (wannurdosh and then wannurnothing2dowithu) for three months. Still
not connected but they graciously offered one months refund.
Sean
Secret Squiddle
"Sean Bergin" <sean....@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:WHJnf.6700$n95....@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
Leave these shitty excuses for ISP, and join a proper broadband ISP - like
ZEN.
Tiscali, Wannado, BT, OneTel, etc are for those people who are still
frighten of their computers. They want a nice shiny disk that does all the
'hard work' for them. These sort of people think Antivirus and Firewall are
the same thing. They shop at PeeCeeWorld. They drive Daewoo's and shop at
Aldi.
**SS**
Buzz Beep
> Leave these shitty excuses for ISP, and join a proper broadband ISP -
> like ZEN.
>
> Tiscali, Wannado, BT, OneTel, etc are for those people who are still
> frighten of their computers. They want a nice shiny disk that does all
> the 'hard work' for them. These sort of people think Antivirus and
> Firewall are the same thing. They shop at PeeCeeWorld. They drive
> Daewoo's and shop at Aldi.
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
Kraftee
Ain't nothing wrong with shopping at PeeSee World as long as you ignore
the sales staff as they always lie ;-)
Kraftee
> <uk.telecom.broadband , Secret Squiddle , S...@M.COM>
> <43a1a65b$0$23296$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk>
> <Thu, 15 Dec 2005 17:22:38 -0000>
>
>> Tiscali, Wannado, BT, OneTel, etc are for those people who are still
>> frighten of their computers.
>>
>
>
> Personally I switch mine on and then run away in terror for about 5
> minutes while it does all the scary spooky stuff :-)
I know you're joking but I have met up with people like that & as for my
partner, she won't even turn her computer on unless I'm in the room...
Kraftee
> <uk.telecom.broadband , Kraftee , kra...@kraftee.plus.nospamming>
> <43a1bfa2$0$1480$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
> <Thu, 15 Dec 2005 19:10:49 -0000>
>
>>>> Tiscali, Wannado, BT, OneTel, etc are for those people who are
>>>> still frighten of their computers.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh yes - the whirr of the fan is quite terrifying .
>>>
>>> Personally I switch mine on and then run away in terror for about 5
>>> minutes while it does all the scary spooky stuff :-)
>>
>> I know you're joking
>
> of minutes to see if its finished its satanic rituals :-)
>
>> but I have met up with people like that & as for my
>> partner, she won't even turn her computer on unless I'm in the
>> room...
>
> security issues to be aware of to the extent she doesnt feel
> comfortable doing anything unless you are there to ask .
No but whenever she used my machine (in the good old day's when we were
firmly a one PC household) she used to make it crash everytime, so I
built her her own machine, with a valid anti virus & a firewall & she
promptly got that virus infected (don't ask me how).
So now she teaches teaching assistants how to use certain programs but
when it come to her PC she doesn't appear to be very confident. She
doesn't read what is on screen when a prompt comes up & she's always
running (well shouting) to me instead of sitting down & thinking it thru
for herself & NO she doesn't use my machine at all even if I'm in the
room...
Cog
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:04:09 +0000, Cog wrote:
>
>> I don't think it's even worth the effort of querying their warning.
>> I'll just be treated to another form-letter email telling me nothing of
>> use.
>
> I know I'm pissing in the wind, but I changed my mind. I'll post the
> response:
>
>
> To: broadban...@uk.tiscali.com
[snip my email]
I've had no response from Tiscali yet... but I did have one rather
disturbing thought. Tiscali couldn't be *stupid* enough to be working out
their usage figures on "connect time" could they? I leave my PC on, and
usually leave it connected (it is a broadband connection after all) even
though there's no data flowing over it (verified).
I know, I know. The idea that a broadband company would be calculating
their fair use usage figures based on how long you are connected rather
than data transferred is a little bizarre... but that's the only reason I
can think of -- and Tiscali don't seem to be answering my questions about
how much I transferred during peak time and what's the limit.