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Moving cordless phone base away from modem
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john ryan
Sep 5, 2012, 8:26:39 AM9/5/12
to
My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
transmitter base.
We keep getting a lot of internet disconnections say three a day on average,
not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
supplying the modem router and phone base.
Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to the
far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
disconnections? Thanks.
there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
transmitter base.
We keep getting a lot of internet disconnections say three a day on average,
not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
supplying the modem router and phone base.
Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to the
far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
disconnections? Thanks.
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 5, 2012, 8:35:08 AM9/5/12
to
Take a telephone line AFTER the filter as far away from the router as
possible and consider threading it through a ferrite ring a couple of
times, as well.
But only AFTER you have switched the whole radio phone off for a day or
two and used a normal phone, to establish whether it is the problem.
>
>
--
Ineptocracy
(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
chris
Sep 5, 2012, 8:39:25 AM9/5/12
to
Seeing as both wired and wifi connections are failing, the cause must be
either in the router or upstream of it. The only thing you might try
with the phone transmitter is to move it to a different phone socket.
Martin Brown
Sep 5, 2012, 8:55:40 AM9/5/12
to
On 05/09/2012 13:26, john ryan wrote:
> My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
> there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
> transmitter base.
I have one at about the same separation and it does not seem to affect
> there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
> transmitter base.
ADSL throughput at all. The things that do are sunshine, rain and at
this time of year damp and dead spiders in the junction boxes.
Disconnects are almost unknown apart from trees through the line...
>
> We keep getting a lot of internet disconnections say three a day on average,
> not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
> connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
>
> we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
> base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
> supplying the modem router and phone base.
The utility Routerstatslite will allow you to observe and log what is
> We keep getting a lot of internet disconnections say three a day on average,
> not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
> connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
>
> we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
> base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
> supplying the modem router and phone base.
going on connection wise and may shed some light on ADSL events.
Any noise or audbile clicks on the traditional POTS voice channel?
>
> Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to the
> far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
> extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
> disconnections? Thanks.
I doubt it. But try it with an ordinary wired phone instead to see.
> Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to the
> far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
> extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
> disconnections? Thanks.
I could imagine situations where the WIFi side might lose range if there
was a competing transmission from adjacent kit,
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 5, 2012, 8:56:12 AM9/5/12
to
chris wrote:
> On 05/09/2012 13:26, john ryan wrote:
>> My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
>> there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless
>> Phone
>> transmitter base.
>>
>> We keep getting a lot of internet disconnections say three a day on
>> average,
>> not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
>> connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
>>
>> we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
>> base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
>> supplying the modem router and phone base.
>>
>> Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to
>> the
>> far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
>> extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
>> disconnections? Thanks.
>
> I doubt it.
>
I dont. The RF coming off the phone is capable and does interfere with
> On 05/09/2012 13:26, john ryan wrote:
>> My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
>> there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless
>> Phone
>> transmitter base.
>>
>> We keep getting a lot of internet disconnections say three a day on
>> average,
>> not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
>> connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
>>
>> we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
>> base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
>> supplying the modem router and phone base.
>>
>> Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to
>> the
>> far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
>> extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
>> disconnections? Thanks.
>
> I doubt it.
>
ADSL. I've seen a ringing phone disconnect the ADSL..
It SHOULDN'T of course. totally different frequencies, But high power RF
can do strange things. How many remember the days of the taxi outside
breaking into your hi fi?
Or as so aptly parodied in 'Spinal Tap' into a whole PA system.
> Seeing as both wired and wifi connections are failing, the cause must be
> either in the router or upstream of it.
line upstream of the router?
The only thing you might try
> with the phone transmitter is to move it to a different phone socket.
>
Or a long piece of cable to the actual base station. As the OP was
asking about.
Scott
Sep 5, 2012, 9:33:21 AM9/5/12
to
On Wed, 5 Sep 2012 13:26:39 +0100, "john ryan" <nz8y...@mail.invalid>
wrote:
Mine is pretty much the same - also Panasonic - but with FTTC
broadband. I have never noticed any association between use of the
phone and broadband performance, even if using the phone and the
computer at the same time.
I did find that when workmen plugged a 110 volt transformer into the
same extension lead that certainly made a difference.
>
wrote:
broadband. I have never noticed any association between use of the
phone and broadband performance, even if using the phone and the
computer at the same time.
I did find that when workmen plugged a 110 volt transformer into the
same extension lead that certainly made a difference.
>
tigger
Sep 5, 2012, 9:39:59 AM9/5/12
to
john ryan writted thus:
Doubtful unless you are unlucky.
I have a cordless phone, British Gas wifi electricity smart meter, bt
infinity WiFi and a large tv, dvr and HD box all in the same corner of my
small cottage and have no problems at all with anything...
--
http://db.tt/aI6WBZ7w
I have a cordless phone, British Gas wifi electricity smart meter, bt
infinity WiFi and a large tv, dvr and HD box all in the same corner of my
small cottage and have no problems at all with anything...
--
http://db.tt/aI6WBZ7w
Graham.
Sep 5, 2012, 2:05:14 PM9/5/12
to
On Wed, 5 Sep 2012 13:26:39 +0100, "john ryan" <nz8y...@mail.invalid>
wrote:
wrote:
means move it, or better still replace it with a wired phone for a few
days and see how you get on.
Assuming there is no improvement, we need to look elsewhere.
I noticed in your post you say "splitters" in the plural. Does that
mean you have more than one micro-filter? Where are the other one(s)?
Are there any other phone sockets in the house, if so are they
hardwired to the master socket or plugged into the front with an
adapter?
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Peter Able
Sep 5, 2012, 2:05:30 PM9/5/12
to
"john ryan" <nz8y...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:k27ge2$64e$1...@dont-email.me...
is more than you describe (other wired extensions - at the BT master socket
or via these "splitters"?), you'd be well advised to have just a single
filter/splitter right at the I-plate outlet.
And I hope when you say "splitter" you mean "filter/splitter". If not, it
would be quite something to get only three disconnects a day, John.
PA
Roderick Stewart
Sep 5, 2012, 5:20:50 PM9/5/12
to
of patience to try. It's one of the things you will be expected to eliminate
before your ISP will arrange an engineer visit, so you might as well do it
anyway. Personally I suspect that cordless phones interfering with ADSL modems
may be a myth, because although I've heard it repeated plenty of times I've
seen plenty of modems next to phone base stations with no problems. (I have
encountered an Xbox that would knock a cable modem offline from 3 feet away,
but that's another story).
Your problem sounds very much like what I had recently - ADSL carrier dropping
a dozen times a day - and was fixed, eventually, by Openreach replacing the
cable from the pole across the road to my house and some ancient crimp
connections in a street cabinet.
If the line check on the BT website says your line is OK, make sure you get
your ISP to organise a broadband engineer, because if you speak to BT and they
send an engineer, he'll be a telephone engineer and all he'll do is check the
line for voice calls. The first thing he'll do is connect a test phone
directly to the socket and try the "quiet line" test on 17070, which you can
do yourself. It's possible for a line to work perfectly at audio fequencies
but not at the radio frequencies used by ADSL. Good luck.
Rod.
--
Michael Chare
Sep 5, 2012, 7:49:53 PM9/5/12
to
On 05/09/2012 13:26, john ryan wrote:
> My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
> there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
> transmitter base.
>
If you can connect your router to your master socket I would suggest
> there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
> transmitter base.
>
using a filtered faceplate such as those available from ADSLNation.
This enables you to do away with any other filters, and stops your
household telephone wiring degrading you ADSL connection.
I doubt a DECT phone would adversely affect a wired ethernet/adsl
connection.
--
Michael Chare
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 5, 2012, 8:32:32 PM9/5/12
to
Roderick Stewart wrote:
> In article <k27ge2$64e$1...@dont-email.me>, John ryan wrote:
>> My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
>> there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
>> transmitter base.
>>
>> We keep getting a lot of internet disconnections say three a day on average,
>> not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
>> connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
>>
>> we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
>> base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
>> supplying the modem router and phone base.
>>
>> Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to the
>> far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
>> extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
>> disconnections? Thanks.
>
> I doubt it, but it'll cost you nothing more than a length of cable and a bit
> of patience to try. It's one of the things you will be expected to eliminate
> before your ISP will arrange an engineer visit, so you might as well do it
> anyway. Personally I suspect that cordless phones interfering with ADSL modems
> may be a myth, because although I've heard it repeated plenty of times I've
> seen plenty of modems next to phone base stations with no problems. (I have
> encountered an Xbox that would knock a cable modem offline from 3 feet away,
> but that's another story).
+ 1 on what to do altho less certain the phone will nor be the issue
> In article <k27ge2$64e$1...@dont-email.me>, John ryan wrote:
>> My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
>> there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
>> transmitter base.
>>
>> We keep getting a lot of internet disconnections say three a day on average,
>> not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
>> connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
>>
>> we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
>> base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
>> supplying the modem router and phone base.
>>
>> Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to the
>> far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
>> extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
>> disconnections? Thanks.
>
> I doubt it, but it'll cost you nothing more than a length of cable and a bit
> of patience to try. It's one of the things you will be expected to eliminate
> before your ISP will arrange an engineer visit, so you might as well do it
> anyway. Personally I suspect that cordless phones interfering with ADSL modems
> may be a myth, because although I've heard it repeated plenty of times I've
> seen plenty of modems next to phone base stations with no problems. (I have
> encountered an Xbox that would knock a cable modem offline from 3 feet away,
> but that's another story).
>
> Your problem sounds very much like what I had recently - ADSL carrier dropping
> a dozen times a day - and was fixed, eventually, by Openreach replacing the
> cable from the pole across the road to my house and some ancient crimp
> connections in a street cabinet.
>
interference by acting as a crude mixer.
> If the line check on the BT website says your line is OK, make sure you get
> your ISP to organise a broadband engineer, because if you speak to BT and they
> send an engineer, he'll be a telephone engineer and all he'll do is check the
> line for voice calls. The first thing he'll do is connect a test phone
> directly to the socket and try the "quiet line" test on 17070, which you can
> do yourself. It's possible for a line to work perfectly at audio fequencies
> but not at the radio frequencies used by ADSL. Good luck.
>
> Rod.
Roderick Stewart
Sep 6, 2012, 5:55:49 AM9/6/12
to
In article <Ou-dnSc3VOC_eNrN...@brightview.co.uk>, Michael Chare
wrote:
from plugging a separate filter directly into an ordinary faceplate?
> I doubt a DECT phone would adversely affect a wired ethernet/adsl
> connection.
Interference can never be completely ruled out because any kind of RF
transmission can sometimes have odd effects if it is strong enough to overload
something and make it work in a non-standard manner, but I'd agree in this
case it's very unlikely. DECT phones work in a very different frequency range
from anything to do with ADSL or ethernet. I know of several installations
where a DECT base station is physically close to an ADSL modem/router,
typically on a desk or windowledge because that's where it's convenient to put
them, with no ill effects whatsoever.
Luckily, if you have any doubts about the proximity of a DECT base station to
any network equipment, it's very easy and cheap to put it to the test, simply
by moving the base station further away. I've done this more than once, using
a temporary extension cable with a view to installing something neater and
more permanent if it made any difference, but it never has. Never.
I suspect that the standard advice about RF interference from any kind of RF
device may have been repeated so often by people who don't fully understand it
that it has effectively become folklore. I don't recall, for instance, ever
seeing any report of an instance where a petrol station has been set on fire,
an aeroplane has lost control, or a piece of medical equipment has killed
somebody, that has been shown to be the result of someone using a mobile
phone. Just because the laws of physics make it possible for something to
happen, it doesn't mean there is any realistic likelihood of it doing so.
Rod.
--
wrote:
> On 05/09/2012 13:26, john ryan wrote:
> > My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
> > there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
> > transmitter base.
> >
>
> If you can connect your router to your master socket I would suggest
> using a filtered faceplate such as those available from ADSLNation.
>
> This enables you to do away with any other filters, and stops your
> household telephone wiring degrading you ADSL connection.
Apart from making the installation look neater, how would this be different
> > My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
> > there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
> > transmitter base.
> >
>
> If you can connect your router to your master socket I would suggest
> using a filtered faceplate such as those available from ADSLNation.
>
> This enables you to do away with any other filters, and stops your
> household telephone wiring degrading you ADSL connection.
from plugging a separate filter directly into an ordinary faceplate?
> I doubt a DECT phone would adversely affect a wired ethernet/adsl
> connection.
transmission can sometimes have odd effects if it is strong enough to overload
something and make it work in a non-standard manner, but I'd agree in this
case it's very unlikely. DECT phones work in a very different frequency range
from anything to do with ADSL or ethernet. I know of several installations
where a DECT base station is physically close to an ADSL modem/router,
typically on a desk or windowledge because that's where it's convenient to put
them, with no ill effects whatsoever.
Luckily, if you have any doubts about the proximity of a DECT base station to
any network equipment, it's very easy and cheap to put it to the test, simply
by moving the base station further away. I've done this more than once, using
a temporary extension cable with a view to installing something neater and
more permanent if it made any difference, but it never has. Never.
I suspect that the standard advice about RF interference from any kind of RF
device may have been repeated so often by people who don't fully understand it
that it has effectively become folklore. I don't recall, for instance, ever
seeing any report of an instance where a petrol station has been set on fire,
an aeroplane has lost control, or a piece of medical equipment has killed
somebody, that has been shown to be the result of someone using a mobile
phone. Just because the laws of physics make it possible for something to
happen, it doesn't mean there is any realistic likelihood of it doing so.
Rod.
--
Martin Brown
Sep 6, 2012, 6:28:38 AM9/6/12
to
On 06/09/2012 10:55, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> I suspect that the standard advice about RF interference from any kind of RF
> device may have been repeated so often by people who don't fully understand it
> that it has effectively become folklore. I don't recall, for instance, ever
> seeing any report of an instance where a petrol station has been set on fire,
> an aeroplane has lost control, or a piece of medical equipment has killed
> somebody, that has been shown to be the result of someone using a mobile
> phone. Just because the laws of physics make it possible for something to
> happen, it doesn't mean there is any realistic likelihood of it doing so.
Given the detrimental effect that a mobile phone about to ring used to
> I suspect that the standard advice about RF interference from any kind of RF
> device may have been repeated so often by people who don't fully understand it
> that it has effectively become folklore. I don't recall, for instance, ever
> seeing any report of an instance where a petrol station has been set on fire,
> an aeroplane has lost control, or a piece of medical equipment has killed
> somebody, that has been shown to be the result of someone using a mobile
> phone. Just because the laws of physics make it possible for something to
> happen, it doesn't mean there is any realistic likelihood of it doing so.
have on old CRT based monitors I would not be quite so certain that they
could not affect other sensitive RF receivers nearby. I'd even be
prepared to believe that putting a mobile phone handset close to an ADSL
modem might cause a disconnect when the phone rings and it sends
whatever initial blast of "hello" here I am to the cell base station.
Main problem with non spark proof gear in an environment with petrol
fume is that without safety interlocks you can get some moron changing
the battery leading to sparks and ignition. I doubt the induced RF could
ever generate a spark, but the battery could easily do it.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
George Weston
Sep 6, 2012, 7:05:41 AM9/6/12
to
base station and has been for some years.
I have had no interference or disconnections whatsoever as a direct
result of this.
I do get disconnections from time to time but these are invariably due
to thunderstorms and power cuts (frequently at the same time). I live in
a small village in the hills of south Wales which is vulnerable to both,
probably made worse by the overhead power supply to the village. On
restoration of supply, more often than not, I need to reboot my router
but I suspect that this is due to the router not resynching as it should
after such an event.
On "good days" - i.e. no power cuts or thunderstorms - my ADSL speed is
rather better than that of my neighbours, many of whom only get around 1
Mbps. My "normal" download speed as measured by BT Speed Test is 2.75
Mbps with 56dB attenuation (router d/l speed currently 4.25 Mbps). I put
this down to the fact that I have, over the years, taken steps to
optimise my connection, as follows:
1. Disconnected all my internal extension wiring
2. Fitted filtered faceplate on my master socket with double outlet -
phone and ADSL.
3. Router and DECT phone system served by direct cables from master
socket (both about two feet away from master socket.
4. New overhead dropwire fitted from pole to house, after the last one
was broken by a local hedge-cutting contractor.
5. New lead-in cable fitted from drop-wire to socket after the the last
one was chewed by my dog!
I would suggest that in the OP's case, he might wish to bin the i-plate
and follow steps 1 to 3 above to improve his performance. (Steps 4 and 5
might be a little difficult - and expensive - to achieve unless
"accidents" occur!)
George
Graham.
Sep 6, 2012, 8:04:32 AM9/6/12
to
because they can be fitted by the uninitiated in a non-invasive way.
I never use them.
Faceplate filter on the NTE5 and, if necessary, run an unfiltered pair
to a dedicated socket for the ADSL modem. Anything less is a bodge
IMHO.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 6, 2012, 8:12:06 AM9/6/12
to
Just because the laws of physics make it possible for something to
> happen, it doesn't mean there is any realistic likelihood of it doing so.
>
planes suffer interference with each other and range loss when flown
over RUSTY WIRE FENCES. The rust jints act as crude mixers and allow
heteriodyning to happen resulting in retranmisson of a shit load of
garbage across bands in which the originating signals are not present.
It is also the primary reason why remaking ADSL joints all the way back
to the exchange improves SNR. Mixing between frequency bins produces
sidebands in other bins.
I aboslutely had one case where a DECT syle phone next to a router upset
the wifi for sire. We also has suspicions it was upsetting ADSL, but it
was a netgear, and there had been a storm..and that router was never
reliable afterwards anyway. Heap of shit netgear.
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 6, 2012, 8:18:55 AM9/6/12
to
that was worn out and never would start until it had been cranked to
death, so it was always on permanent charge. Until someone disconnecter
the live charger and there was a massive hydrogen explosion in the
battery which split it in half and knocked the lad across the floor.
At that point the boss decided that he could afford to let another guy
who was a trained diesel fitter, regrind the valves to get some
compression back. And even bought a new battery for it.
I've only once ignited petrol vapour accidentally. Or lets say I
intended to light the petrol, but didn't realise that 8 feet away from
it the vapour existed as I lit the piece of paper I was going to throw
at it from what I thought was a safe distance.
I went to work the next day covered in syntho skin looking like a zombie.
John Weston
Sep 6, 2012, 10:55:01 AM9/6/12
to
On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:04:32 +0100, Graham. wrote:
> i-plates only address part of the problem, and are only popular
> because they can be fitted by the uninitiated in a non-invasive way.
>
> I never use them.
I agree and have never found i-plates improve anything in
> i-plates only address part of the problem, and are only popular
> because they can be fitted by the uninitiated in a non-invasive way.
>
> I never use them.
the fixes I've done. I don't even consider them any more
since it is far simpler to lift the "pin-3" ring wire going
to all the extensions, thereby removing the aerial it
produces that can couple back any local interference signals
back onto the ADSL-carrying phone lines in an unbalanced
way.
I've had one or two cases after this disconnection where I
had to install a local ADSL socket filter purely to provide
the ring signal to an old phone. This is done local to the
phone needing it rather than have the long, unbalanced ring
wire in the house installation.
Another thing to check is that all the home phone wiring is
twisted-pair and NOT straight wires, as used in burglar
alarms - a common builder's short-cut, especially when
installing old Redcare equipment.
> Faceplate filter on the NTE5 and, if necessary, run an unfiltered pair
> to a dedicated socket for the ADSL modem. Anything less is a bodge
> IMHO.
wire to the modem/router is twisted-pair with no connected
ring wire to further minimise any interference pick-up in
the local wiring. Note also that the ordinary cable
supplied with routers isn't twisted but you can get screened
RJ11 terminated cables that can be used in this type of
installation. This, in my experience, has only made a
difference in my installation where a foot-long screened
RJ11 wire to the router in my well-packed equipment cupboard
reduced pick-up from the equipment wall-warts and so
improved the sync speed.
The use of the NTE5 faceplate filter makes sure there will
be no home wiring connected to the incoming phone lines when
you are using the test socket. To make sure this it true,
check there are no connections, other than the incoming
phone line, between the master socket and the exchange, as
far as you can see :-). There are cases where someone has
taken a short cut and connected home wiring to the back-
plate screws, especially when encountering non-standard NTE5
conversions...
--
John W
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 6, 2012, 11:02:19 AM9/6/12
to
John Weston wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:04:32 +0100, Graham. wrote:
>
>> i-plates only address part of the problem, and are only popular
>> because they can be fitted by the uninitiated in a non-invasive way.
>>
>> I never use them.
>
> I agree and have never found i-plates improve anything in
> the fixes I've done. I don't even consider them any more
> since it is far simpler to lift the "pin-3" ring wire going
> to all the extensions, thereby removing the aerial it
> produces that can couple back any local interference signals
> back onto the ADSL-carrying phone lines in an unbalanced
> way.
>
> I've had one or two cases after this disconnection where I
> had to install a local ADSL socket filter purely to provide
> the ring signal to an old phone. This is done local to the
> phone needing it rather than have the long, unbalanced ring
> wire in the house installation.
>
Eh? The ring signal you can do with a master socket off a straight
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:04:32 +0100, Graham. wrote:
>
>> i-plates only address part of the problem, and are only popular
>> because they can be fitted by the uninitiated in a non-invasive way.
>>
>> I never use them.
>
> I agree and have never found i-plates improve anything in
> the fixes I've done. I don't even consider them any more
> since it is far simpler to lift the "pin-3" ring wire going
> to all the extensions, thereby removing the aerial it
> produces that can couple back any local interference signals
> back onto the ADSL-carrying phone lines in an unbalanced
> way.
>
> I've had one or two cases after this disconnection where I
> had to install a local ADSL socket filter purely to provide
> the ring signal to an old phone. This is done local to the
> phone needing it rather than have the long, unbalanced ring
> wire in the house installation.
>
2-wire system. Its the anti-tinkle you need 4 wires for..
Cant see what that has to do with an 'ADSL socket'..
> Another thing to check is that all the home phone wiring is
> twisted-pair and NOT straight wires, as used in burglar
> alarms - a common builder's short-cut, especially when
> installing old Redcare equipment.
>
Roderick Stewart
Sep 6, 2012, 11:16:28 AM9/6/12
to
In article <xV_1s.1400$H72...@newsfe23.iad>, Martin Brown wrote:
> I'd even be
> prepared to believe that putting a mobile phone handset close to an ADSL
> modem might cause a disconnect when the phone rings and it sends
> whatever initial blast of "hello" here I am to the cell base station.
I'd be prepared to believe it too if I ever saw it happening. Have you
> I'd even be
> prepared to believe that putting a mobile phone handset close to an ADSL
> modem might cause a disconnect when the phone rings and it sends
> whatever initial blast of "hello" here I am to the cell base station.
actually tried putting a handset close to an ADSL modem and then calling it?
The fact that I *have* seen base stations calling and being called while in
close proximity to ADSL modems without causing any problems makes me think
the possibility of a handset doing so is not even worth the bother of
investigating, because they both transmit so if one doesn't cause any
problems why would the other? But feel free to try if you wish.
I tend not to believe things that haven't been proven, and find it much
easier to reserve judgement on something suggested to me when the person
suggesting it has not tested it despite the test being very easy to do.
Rod.
--
Roderick Stewart
Sep 6, 2012, 11:16:28 AM9/6/12
to
In article <k2a3un$777$1...@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> However there is so MUCH evidence in other cases. For example model RC
> planes suffer interference with each other and range loss when flown
> over RUSTY WIRE FENCES. The rust jints act as crude mixers and allow
> heteriodyning to happen resulting in retranmisson of a shit load of
> garbage across bands in which the originating signals are not present.
Makes perfect sense. Rusty joints can act as semiconductors and do just as
> However there is so MUCH evidence in other cases. For example model RC
> planes suffer interference with each other and range loss when flown
> over RUSTY WIRE FENCES. The rust jints act as crude mixers and allow
> heteriodyning to happen resulting in retranmisson of a shit load of
> garbage across bands in which the originating signals are not present.
you describe, producing distorted RF signals with harmonics. I can see how
this could interfere with the operation of receivers in the same frequency
range if their design did not adequately reject those harmonics.
It doesn't seem so clear how distortion of signals in the DECT frequency
range (I'm not sure but isn't that hundreds of MHz?) could cause problems
at ADSL frequencies, which only go up to about 1MHz.
> It is also the primary reason why remaking ADSL joints all the way back
> to the exchange improves SNR. Mixing between frequency bins produces
> sidebands in other bins.
will be in the same frequency range. This seems to have been what happened
in my case, when the dropouts were cured by replacing some old cable and
old crimp joints.
> I aboslutely had one case where a DECT syle phone next to a router upset
> the wifi for sire. We also has suspicions it was upsetting ADSL, but it
> was a netgear, and there had been a storm..and that router was never
> reliable afterwards anyway. Heap of shit netgear.
show when the ADSL signal is locked, and computers have icons that show
when the local wi-fi signal is connected, so it should be posssible to
establish which connection is being lost. Also, if you suspect the wi-fi
connection you can try ethernet. Believe the evidence, not the anecdotes.
Rod.
--
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 6, 2012, 12:05:28 PM9/6/12
to
Roderick Stewart wrote:
> In article <k2a3un$777$1...@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> However there is so MUCH evidence in other cases. For example model RC
>> planes suffer interference with each other and range loss when flown
>> over RUSTY WIRE FENCES. The rust jints act as crude mixers and allow
>> heteriodyning to happen resulting in retranmisson of a shit load of
>> garbage across bands in which the originating signals are not present.
>
> Makes perfect sense. Rusty joints can act as semiconductors and do just as
> you describe, producing distorted RF signals with harmonics. I can see how
> this could interfere with the operation of receivers in the same frequency
> range if their design did not adequately reject those harmonics.
>
> It doesn't seem so clear how distortion of signals in the DECT frequency
> range (I'm not sure but isn't that hundreds of MHz?) could cause problems
> at ADSL frequencies, which only go up to about 1MHz.
>
because of mixing and down conversion.
> In article <k2a3un$777$1...@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> However there is so MUCH evidence in other cases. For example model RC
>> planes suffer interference with each other and range loss when flown
>> over RUSTY WIRE FENCES. The rust jints act as crude mixers and allow
>> heteriodyning to happen resulting in retranmisson of a shit load of
>> garbage across bands in which the originating signals are not present.
>
> Makes perfect sense. Rusty joints can act as semiconductors and do just as
> you describe, producing distorted RF signals with harmonics. I can see how
> this could interfere with the operation of receivers in the same frequency
> range if their design did not adequately reject those harmonics.
>
> It doesn't seem so clear how distortion of signals in the DECT frequency
> range (I'm not sure but isn't that hundreds of MHz?) could cause problems
> at ADSL frequencies, which only go up to about 1MHz.
>
e.g two signals at say 400 Mhz that are 50Khz apart will on being mixed
produce a 50Khz signal. The basic principle of a superhet radio which is
sued by every receiver that has been built since about 1930 At elast up
to te digital age..and even then its the same principle but the way its
done for spread spectrum is weirdly different..but I digress.
The problem is that high levels signals may drive perfectly good kit
onto non linear regions where such mixing can happen.
The queston is whether it does.. and waht might be the results
"DECT is based on Time Division Duplex (TDD) and Time Division Multiple
Access (TDMA) with 10 carriers in the 1880 - 1900MHz band."
So at first sight we are FAR closer to Wifi (2400MHz) than ASDSL.
"(most kit uses) Gaussian filtered FSK (GFSK) "
No idea what that is.. Oh OK is simple frequency modulation but with the
nasty edges taken off..but the basic sideband and spectral density will
be in the region of what the actual data rates is..so lets see..
"A normal DECT slot is 417 microseconds long and contains 420 bits."
so that burst of data will have sidebands somewhere in the +- 1MHz area
and harmonics thereof....
..and anything that detects that as an AM or FM signal will see a 1MHz
splat of interference..
No router SHOULD do that. Ther same cannot be said for upstream wires tho.
Or hugely overloaded routers.
MM. DECT runs at about 10mW so it shouldn't be overloading the router.
Even close up.
BUT its no guarantee that circuitry inside the router wont pickup and
have issues. Again once the ADSL line terminates the rest of the
electronics at the lower levels SHOULD ideally be shielded..
But is it?
Final conclusions. This supports the issues I gave seen personally. DECT
fucking up wifi. The freqencies are close enough that a cheap wifi
dongle without decent front end filtering will quite likely crap out.
That's what happened. The Apple wifi stayed working. A cheap PC wifi was
unreliable, and a really cheap printer wouldn't work at all.
It should NOT affect ADSL. But it COULD.It might need a particular
combination of router and wiring to do it, but I can see ways in which
it could happen.
Luckily the consensus of advice is to get rid off the DECT and see. If
that fixes it, well there you are.
Not top agonise on how it might be happening.
Reality trumps theory :-)
>> It is also the primary reason why remaking ADSL joints all the way back
>> to the exchange improves SNR. Mixing between frequency bins produces
>> sidebands in other bins.
>
> Agreed. Distorted ADSL signals interfering with other ADSL signals, which
> will be in the same frequency range. This seems to have been what happened
> in my case, when the dropouts were cured by replacing some old cable and
> old crimp joints.
>
distortion that causes the cross modulation.
>> I aboslutely had one case where a DECT syle phone next to a router upset
>> the wifi for sire. We also has suspicions it was upsetting ADSL, but it
>> was a netgear, and there had been a storm..and that router was never
>> reliable afterwards anyway. Heap of shit netgear.
>
> Easily checked. Most modems (including Netgear) have indicator lights that
> show when the ADSL signal is locked, and computers have icons that show
> when the local wi-fi signal is connected, so it should be posssible to
> establish which connection is being lost. Also, if you suspect the wi-fi
> connection you can try ethernet. Believe the evidence, not the anecdotes.
>
As I say MN evidence ws bad with wifi. Some didn't work.
the evidence with ADSL was circumstantial since the same router was
equally flaky at home here on my ADSL line. I threw it in the bin
eventually. Almost new netgear it was,
> Rod.
> --
John Weston
Sep 6, 2012, 1:07:42 PM9/6/12
to
On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:02:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
>
> Eh? The ring signal you can do with a master socket off a straight
> 2-wire system. Its the anti-tinkle you need 4 wires for..
>
> Cant see what that has to do with an 'ADSL socket'..
Nothing to do with an ADSL socket, other than the "ADSL"
filter in the faceplate will generate the ring current and
so will usually have the home wiring's ring wire connected.
See the sites on the Web giving the schematics, e.g. the
bottom of http://www.adslnation.com/support/filters.php
(don't forget the numbering of BT plug and socket are
reversed)
Old phones need a 3-wire connection (I didn't say 4-wire -
only 3 wires are needed) since the ring capacitor splitting
off the ring current is in the master socket of the
"modern" wiring. This was done to prevent the tinkling of
the bell if a second phone is connected to a slave socket.
When the pulse dial was operated, it caused loop disconnects
in the voice pair back to the exchange. These pulses caused
the 2nd phone's bell to ring if the ring circuit was left
locally in the phone across the speech pair, as in the
unmodified original phones.
With new phones, the ringing is derived locally in an
electronic circuit, normally leaving the ring wire open-
circuit at the phone. This leaves it functioning as a simple
aerial connected to the "A" wire via a capacitor at the
master socket.
If you have a phone requiring pin-3 ringing in a 2-wire only
installation, then the ringing current can be locally
generated using an ADSL filter to do this. The filter part
will have nothing else to do, since the ADSL signal has been
removed from the home phone wiring at the master.
>
> > Another thing to check is that all the home phone wiring is
> > twisted-pair and NOT straight wires, as used in burglar
> > alarms - a common builder's short-cut, especially when
> > installing old Redcare equipment.
> >
>
> Makes little difference after the ADSL filter.
But, if the OP wants to extend the ADSL-carrying wire to a
slave in another room, then doing this via non-twisted pair
wires is not a good idea. This wire is NOT after the ADSL
filter, since the ADSL-carrying wires are straight-through
and NOT filtered. ADSL filters do nothing on the ADSL side.
I've seen problems where users had used flat cabled phone
extensions, available from DIY sheds, to feed a remote
located modem/router.
--
John W
wrote:
>
> Eh? The ring signal you can do with a master socket off a straight
> 2-wire system. Its the anti-tinkle you need 4 wires for..
>
> Cant see what that has to do with an 'ADSL socket'..
filter in the faceplate will generate the ring current and
so will usually have the home wiring's ring wire connected.
See the sites on the Web giving the schematics, e.g. the
bottom of http://www.adslnation.com/support/filters.php
(don't forget the numbering of BT plug and socket are
reversed)
Old phones need a 3-wire connection (I didn't say 4-wire -
only 3 wires are needed) since the ring capacitor splitting
off the ring current is in the master socket of the
"modern" wiring. This was done to prevent the tinkling of
the bell if a second phone is connected to a slave socket.
When the pulse dial was operated, it caused loop disconnects
in the voice pair back to the exchange. These pulses caused
the 2nd phone's bell to ring if the ring circuit was left
locally in the phone across the speech pair, as in the
unmodified original phones.
With new phones, the ringing is derived locally in an
electronic circuit, normally leaving the ring wire open-
circuit at the phone. This leaves it functioning as a simple
aerial connected to the "A" wire via a capacitor at the
master socket.
If you have a phone requiring pin-3 ringing in a 2-wire only
installation, then the ringing current can be locally
generated using an ADSL filter to do this. The filter part
will have nothing else to do, since the ADSL signal has been
removed from the home phone wiring at the master.
>
> > Another thing to check is that all the home phone wiring is
> > twisted-pair and NOT straight wires, as used in burglar
> > alarms - a common builder's short-cut, especially when
> > installing old Redcare equipment.
> >
>
> Makes little difference after the ADSL filter.
slave in another room, then doing this via non-twisted pair
wires is not a good idea. This wire is NOT after the ADSL
filter, since the ADSL-carrying wires are straight-through
and NOT filtered. ADSL filters do nothing on the ADSL side.
I've seen problems where users had used flat cabled phone
extensions, available from DIY sheds, to feed a remote
located modem/router.
--
John W
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 6, 2012, 1:36:57 PM9/6/12
to
John Weston wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:02:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
> wrote:
>
>> Eh? The ring signal you can do with a master socket off a straight
>> 2-wire system. Its the anti-tinkle you need 4 wires for..
>>
>> Cant see what that has to do with an 'ADSL socket'..
>
> Nothing to do with an ADSL socket, other than the "ADSL"
> filter in the faceplate will generate the ring current and
> so will usually have the home wiring's ring wire connected.
> See the sites on the Web giving the schematics, e.g. the
> bottom of http://www.adslnation.com/support/filters.php
> (don't forget the numbering of BT plug and socket are
> reversed)
why bother with an ADSL faceplate when a POTS master is cheaper and
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:02:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
> wrote:
>
>> Eh? The ring signal you can do with a master socket off a straight
>> 2-wire system. Its the anti-tinkle you need 4 wires for..
>>
>> Cant see what that has to do with an 'ADSL socket'..
>
> Nothing to do with an ADSL socket, other than the "ADSL"
> filter in the faceplate will generate the ring current and
> so will usually have the home wiring's ring wire connected.
> See the sites on the Web giving the schematics, e.g. the
> bottom of http://www.adslnation.com/support/filters.php
> (don't forget the numbering of BT plug and socket are
> reversed)
does the sam job
and repeating the bleeding obvious.
To whit, Incoming 'hot' ADSL goes to router, do not pass go etc etc.
all POTS taken via filter output to anyoldcrapulike two-wire bus system
to master faceplates wherever required.
That's all you meed to do.
Graham.
Sep 6, 2012, 1:39:19 PM9/6/12
to
On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:02:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>John Weston wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:04:32 +0100, Graham. wrote:
>>
>>> i-plates only address part of the problem, and are only popular
>>> because they can be fitted by the uninitiated in a non-invasive way.
>>>
>>> I never use them.
>>
>> I agree and have never found i-plates improve anything in
>> the fixes I've done. I don't even consider them any more
>> since it is far simpler to lift the "pin-3" ring wire going
>> to all the extensions, thereby removing the aerial it
>> produces that can couple back any local interference signals
>> back onto the ADSL-carrying phone lines in an unbalanced
>> way.
>>
>> I've had one or two cases after this disconnection where I
>> had to install a local ADSL socket filter purely to provide
>> the ring signal to an old phone. This is done local to the
>> phone needing it rather than have the long, unbalanced ring
>> wire in the house installation.
>>
>
>Eh? The ring signal you can do with a master socket off a straight
>2-wire system. Its the anti-tinkle you need 4 wires for..
>
>Cant see what that has to do with an 'ADSL socket'..
An ADSL filter has a capacitor between pin 2 and 3 of the socket, the
>John Weston wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:04:32 +0100, Graham. wrote:
>>
>>> i-plates only address part of the problem, and are only popular
>>> because they can be fitted by the uninitiated in a non-invasive way.
>>>
>>> I never use them.
>>
>> I agree and have never found i-plates improve anything in
>> the fixes I've done. I don't even consider them any more
>> since it is far simpler to lift the "pin-3" ring wire going
>> to all the extensions, thereby removing the aerial it
>> produces that can couple back any local interference signals
>> back onto the ADSL-carrying phone lines in an unbalanced
>> way.
>>
>> I've had one or two cases after this disconnection where I
>> had to install a local ADSL socket filter purely to provide
>> the ring signal to an old phone. This is done local to the
>> phone needing it rather than have the long, unbalanced ring
>> wire in the house installation.
>>
>
>Eh? The ring signal you can do with a master socket off a straight
>2-wire system. Its the anti-tinkle you need 4 wires for..
>
>Cant see what that has to do with an 'ADSL socket'..
plug has no connection to pin 3.
So using an ADSL filter at an extention socket that has only been
wired with 2&5 is an easy way to regenerate the pin 3 signal, should
your phone need it.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Roderick Stewart
Sep 6, 2012, 1:53:19 PM9/6/12
to
In article <k2ahk9$4oj$1...@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> > It doesn't seem so clear how distortion of signals in the DECT frequency
> > range (I'm not sure but isn't that hundreds of MHz?) could cause problems
> > at ADSL frequencies, which only go up to about 1MHz.
> >
>
> because of mixing and down conversion.
>
> e.g two signals at say 400 Mhz that are 50Khz apart will on being mixed
> produce a 50Khz signal [etc]
> > It doesn't seem so clear how distortion of signals in the DECT frequency
> > range (I'm not sure but isn't that hundreds of MHz?) could cause problems
> > at ADSL frequencies, which only go up to about 1MHz.
> >
>
> because of mixing and down conversion.
>
> e.g two signals at say 400 Mhz that are 50Khz apart will on being mixed
All accepted and understood, though I've never seen it happen in practice.
Maybe a DECT signal doesn't have sufficiently strong components just the
right amount apart in frequency?
For what it's worth, my own arrangement used to include a DECT base station
immediately next to an ADSL wireless router on my desk, the main PC connected
by ethernet. ADSL was fine and wireless wasn't wonderful but it never dropped
out. About a year ago I replaced the router with a wireless-n one and took
the opportunity to recable so it was on top of a high shelf, which gave much
better wireless, though my main PC was still connected by ethernet.
About 6 months ago I started getting frequent ADSL dropouts, about a dozen a
day, eventually fixed by an Openreach engineer replacing some external wiring
so nothing to do with my installation, but as part of my diagnostics I had
moved the router again to a shelf just next to the master socket by the front
door to shorten the ADSL cable run. Now everything is on wireless, no
ethernet at all from the router, but since it's wireless-n this is as good as
ethernet was before. Now instead of a modem/router immediately next to the
DECT base station on my desk I have a wireless/ethernet bridge, but despite
it being only a few inches away it doesn't drop out in response to anything
the phone does. I believe you when you say the things you describe *can*
happen, but for me they just never have.
Rod.
--
Graham.
Sep 6, 2012, 1:54:34 PM9/6/12
to
On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 18:36:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>John Weston wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:02:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Eh? The ring signal you can do with a master socket off a straight
>>> 2-wire system. Its the anti-tinkle you need 4 wires for..
>>>
>>> Cant see what that has to do with an 'ADSL socket'..
>>
>> Nothing to do with an ADSL socket, other than the "ADSL"
>> filter in the faceplate will generate the ring current and
>> so will usually have the home wiring's ring wire connected.
>> See the sites on the Web giving the schematics, e.g. the
>> bottom of http://www.adslnation.com/support/filters.php
>> (don't forget the numbering of BT plug and socket are
>> reversed)
>
>why bother with an ADSL faceplate when a POTS master is cheaper and
>does the sam job
He actually said "ADSL socket filter" by which I pictured an ordinary
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>John Weston wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:02:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Eh? The ring signal you can do with a master socket off a straight
>>> 2-wire system. Its the anti-tinkle you need 4 wires for..
>>>
>>> Cant see what that has to do with an 'ADSL socket'..
>>
>> Nothing to do with an ADSL socket, other than the "ADSL"
>> filter in the faceplate will generate the ring current and
>> so will usually have the home wiring's ring wire connected.
>> See the sites on the Web giving the schematics, e.g. the
>> bottom of http://www.adslnation.com/support/filters.php
>> (don't forget the numbering of BT plug and socket are
>> reversed)
>
>why bother with an ADSL faceplate when a POTS master is cheaper and
>does the sam job
dongle filter you plug into a phone socket, thus effectively
converting it to a master.
Granted, the terminology used was open to wrong interpretation, but
the trick of using a filter to regenerate pin 3 has been discussed
here so many times I imagine John thought we would all know what he
meant.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 6, 2012, 2:34:46 PM9/6/12
to
> So using an ADSL filter at an extention socket that has only been
> wired with 2&5 is an easy way to regenerate the pin 3 signal, should
> your phone need it.
>
http://www.kenable.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=4629
versus
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=9881&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 6, 2012, 2:46:05 PM9/6/12
to
Roderick Stewart wrote:
> In article <k2ahk9$4oj$1...@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> It doesn't seem so clear how distortion of signals in the DECT frequency
>>> range (I'm not sure but isn't that hundreds of MHz?) could cause problems
>>> at ADSL frequencies, which only go up to about 1MHz.
>>>
>> because of mixing and down conversion.
>>
>> e.g two signals at say 400 Mhz that are 50Khz apart will on being mixed
>> produce a 50Khz signal [etc]
>
> All accepted and understood, though I've never seen it happen in practice.
well in general terms yes you have. Every time you tuned an AM or FM radio..
> In article <k2ahk9$4oj$1...@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> It doesn't seem so clear how distortion of signals in the DECT frequency
>>> range (I'm not sure but isn't that hundreds of MHz?) could cause problems
>>> at ADSL frequencies, which only go up to about 1MHz.
>>>
>> because of mixing and down conversion.
>>
>> e.g two signals at say 400 Mhz that are 50Khz apart will on being mixed
>> produce a 50Khz signal [etc]
>
> All accepted and understood, though I've never seen it happen in practice.
> Maybe a DECT signal doesn't have sufficiently strong components just the
> right amount apart in frequency?
a low pass filter to keep Gigahertz out. But that doesn't mean the
wiring and joints nearby on the ADSL POTS side dont..
I accept it is, given the actual figures, pretty unlikely.
>
> For what it's worth, my own arrangement used to include a DECT base station
> immediately next to an ADSL wireless router on my desk, the main PC connected
> by ethernet. ADSL was fine and wireless wasn't wonderful but it never dropped
> out. About a year ago I replaced the router with a wireless-n one and took
> the opportunity to recable so it was on top of a high shelf, which gave much
> better wireless, though my main PC was still connected by ethernet.
>
> About 6 months ago I started getting frequent ADSL dropouts, about a dozen a
> day, eventually fixed by an Openreach engineer replacing some external wiring
> so nothing to do with my installation, but as part of my diagnostics I had
> moved the router again to a shelf just next to the master socket by the front
> door to shorten the ADSL cable run. Now everything is on wireless, no
> ethernet at all from the router, but since it's wireless-n this is as good as
> ethernet was before.
here by default at all. All wired 100Mbps duplexc. Have my own switch..
Suer the internet's slow, but a lot more rushes round the internal
network, like print jobs and files.
Also I dont like other people snoopimg my network. Even if it is encrypted.
At least one frend and one nephew have the password..so I just switch it
off.
Now instead of a modem/router immediately next to the
> DECT base station on my desk I have a wireless/ethernet bridge, but despite
> it being only a few inches away it doesn't drop out in response to anything
> the phone does. I believe you when you say the things you describe *can*
> happen, but for me they just never have.
>
MY issues with DECT have all been wifi related.
You know, a favour to someone who has assembled a load of plasticky junk
they bought at comet or somewhere, and 'could you make it all work'
And you spend two days and it simply never works properly. Each bit
works on its own, but with all the others? Nada.
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 6, 2012, 2:50:30 PM9/6/12
to
Graham. wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 18:36:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> John Weston wrote:
>>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:02:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Eh? The ring signal you can do with a master socket off a straight
>>>> 2-wire system. Its the anti-tinkle you need 4 wires for..
>>>>
>>>> Cant see what that has to do with an 'ADSL socket'..
>>> Nothing to do with an ADSL socket, other than the "ADSL"
>>> filter in the faceplate will generate the ring current and
>>> so will usually have the home wiring's ring wire connected.
>>> See the sites on the Web giving the schematics, e.g. the
>>> bottom of http://www.adslnation.com/support/filters.php
>>> (don't forget the numbering of BT plug and socket are
>>> reversed)
>> why bother with an ADSL faceplate when a POTS master is cheaper and
>> does the sam job
>
>
> He actually said "ADSL socket filter" by which I pictured an ordinary
> dongle filter you plug into a phone socket, thus effectively
> converting it to a master.
>
Oh like 'PABX master' extenders.
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 18:36:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> John Weston wrote:
>>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:02:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Eh? The ring signal you can do with a master socket off a straight
>>>> 2-wire system. Its the anti-tinkle you need 4 wires for..
>>>>
>>>> Cant see what that has to do with an 'ADSL socket'..
>>> Nothing to do with an ADSL socket, other than the "ADSL"
>>> filter in the faceplate will generate the ring current and
>>> so will usually have the home wiring's ring wire connected.
>>> See the sites on the Web giving the schematics, e.g. the
>>> bottom of http://www.adslnation.com/support/filters.php
>>> (don't forget the numbering of BT plug and socket are
>>> reversed)
>> why bother with an ADSL faceplate when a POTS master is cheaper and
>> does the sam job
>
>
> He actually said "ADSL socket filter" by which I pictured an ordinary
> dongle filter you plug into a phone socket, thus effectively
> converting it to a master.
>
Why not do the job properly? You need an extemnsion faceplate ANYWAY.
making it a master is trivial.
BUT if you start using dozens of these everywhere (filters or
faceplates) you will exceed the specs on what you are allowed to have
on your phone line.
IN which case its best to take two wires from the router filter to a
remote master faceplate and go three wire from then on in.
>
> Granted, the terminology used was open to wrong interpretation, but
> the trick of using a filter to regenerate pin 3 has been discussed
> here so many times I imagine John thought we would all know what he
> meant.
>
>
--
Roderick Stewart
Sep 6, 2012, 5:59:02 PM9/6/12
to
In article <k2ar1d$pjc$1...@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> >> e.g two signals at say 400 Mhz that are 50Khz apart will on being mixed
> >> produce a 50Khz signal [etc]
> >
> > All accepted and understood, though I've never seen it happen in practice.
>
> well in general terms yes you have. Every time you tuned an AM or FM radio..
Umm... OK. I thought we were talking a bit more specifically than that, but I know
> >> e.g two signals at say 400 Mhz that are 50Khz apart will on being mixed
> >> produce a 50Khz signal [etc]
> >
> > All accepted and understood, though I've never seen it happen in practice.
>
> well in general terms yes you have. Every time you tuned an AM or FM radio..
what you mean.
[...]
> MY issues with DECT have all been wifi related.
>
> You know, a favour to someone who has assembled a load of plasticky junk
> they bought at comet or somewhere, and 'could you make it all work'
>
> And you spend two days and it simply never works properly. Each bit
> works on its own, but with all the others? Nada.
really was plasticky junk, was it all the same brand? Go on, name and shame.
Rod.
--
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 6, 2012, 6:37:47 PM9/6/12
to
Sister in law bought all this crap that I wouldnt bee seen dead with and
string it together.
I took the netgear as a spare. It didn't work after its little
thunderstormettete. Well it did, then it would lock up. I threw it in
the dustbin.
We dont talk much anymore :-)
John Weston
Sep 7, 2012, 5:31:49 AM9/7/12
to
In article <46oh481plfgk64324...@4ax.com>,
m...@privacy.net.invalid says...
> He actually said "ADSL socket filter" by which I pictured an ordinary
> dongle filter you plug into a phone socket, thus effectively
> converting it to a master.
>
>
> Granted, the terminology used was open to wrong interpretation, but
> the trick of using a filter to regenerate pin 3 has been discussed
> here so many times I imagine John thought we would all know what he
> meant.
Thanks, I'd forgotten we have pedants around... :-)
The average user will have a no-longer needed plug-in filter available
after having been converted to a filtered faceplate on the BT master
socket. Using one of these to regenerate the ring signal locally for
the odd old phone is a no cost option. I no longer do PBX work so don't
carry PBX ring converters, so it saves a special order.
In-front of average users we have here, I don't normally like to use the
term "master" when it's used to refer to a slave socket with the ring
circuit or, practically, to use a BT-style master in a slave location.
Users may select the wrong "master" socket when instructed to connect to
the test socket in future.
--
John W
m...@privacy.net.invalid says...
> He actually said "ADSL socket filter" by which I pictured an ordinary
> dongle filter you plug into a phone socket, thus effectively
> converting it to a master.
>
>
> Granted, the terminology used was open to wrong interpretation, but
> the trick of using a filter to regenerate pin 3 has been discussed
> here so many times I imagine John thought we would all know what he
> meant.
The average user will have a no-longer needed plug-in filter available
after having been converted to a filtered faceplate on the BT master
socket. Using one of these to regenerate the ring signal locally for
the odd old phone is a no cost option. I no longer do PBX work so don't
carry PBX ring converters, so it saves a special order.
In-front of average users we have here, I don't normally like to use the
term "master" when it's used to refer to a slave socket with the ring
circuit or, practically, to use a BT-style master in a slave location.
Users may select the wrong "master" socket when instructed to connect to
the test socket in future.
--
John W
john ryan
Sep 7, 2012, 8:05:39 AM9/7/12
to
My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
transmitter base.
there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
transmitter base.
We keep getting a lot of internet disconnections say three a day on average,
not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
supplying the modem router and phone base.
Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to the
far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
disconnections? Thanks.
================================================================================================
not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
supplying the modem router and phone base.
Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to the
far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
disconnections? Thanks.
Many thanks to all. Our internet connection used to work fine until six
months or so ago. Coincidentally just after BT offered us a fibre optic
connection. We then changed out Belking modem router for the Netgear when
the connection kept dropping. But still we have the same problem. So at one
time it was working fine even with the two wired phone extensions to other
rooms in place.
I do have a ADSL splitter/filter in place and a surge protector plug (since
its in the same ring main as the fridge).
Have taken the BT junction box to pieces. Its got an orange wire that passes
through the new I-plate and a blue with white bands and white with blue
bands connected to the phone plug to the modem. (also in there but not
connected is a white with green bands and a white with orange bands and a
green wires.
I thought i could disconnect the phone extension leads from there, so i'm
now a bit usure as to where to look for them to disconnect them? Grateful
for any continued assistance.
Graham.
Sep 7, 2012, 10:32:35 AM9/7/12
to
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 13:05:39 +0100, "john ryan" <nz8y...@mail.invalid>
wrote:
When you undid the two screws and pulled off the faceplate, the wires
you saw are the wires going to the two extension sockets, either wired
in a dasychain, or with a junction box somewhere.
If you are not confident about pulling the wires off the connecters
don't worry, you can see if doing so would improve matters by plugging
an ADSL filter into the hidden socket inside the box and plugging your
modem into the RJ11.
If the wire length allows, you can even bodily plug the faceplate into
the filter and then plug a local phone into the normal socket on the
faceplate. Yes, it looks like a dogs dinner, but the result is
electrically like a central faceplate filter which is always a Good
Thing (R), and your extensions will work and won't need additional
filters.
Check out my previous post to see my opinion of a central filter and
the limitations of the I-Plate.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
wrote:
you saw are the wires going to the two extension sockets, either wired
in a dasychain, or with a junction box somewhere.
If you are not confident about pulling the wires off the connecters
don't worry, you can see if doing so would improve matters by plugging
an ADSL filter into the hidden socket inside the box and plugging your
modem into the RJ11.
If the wire length allows, you can even bodily plug the faceplate into
the filter and then plug a local phone into the normal socket on the
faceplate. Yes, it looks like a dogs dinner, but the result is
electrically like a central faceplate filter which is always a Good
Thing (R), and your extensions will work and won't need additional
filters.
Check out my previous post to see my opinion of a central filter and
the limitations of the I-Plate.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
john ryan
Sep 7, 2012, 12:33:35 PM9/7/12
to
"Graham." <m...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:acvj489q2kr169tfe...@4ax.com...
>>
> When you undid the two screws and pulled off the faceplate, the wires
> you saw are the wires going to the two extension sockets, either wired
> in a dasychain, or with a junction box somewhere.
*******
> When you undid the two screws and pulled off the faceplate, the wires
> you saw are the wires going to the two extension sockets, either wired
> in a dasychain, or with a junction box somewhere.
Graham Thanks, like a clot i forgot to mention the white with green bands
and the white with orange bands and the green wires were *severed* and tied
together in a neat bundle. Which i why i was wondering where the old
extension socket wires are coming from.
> If you are not confident about pulling the wires off the connecters
> don't worry, you can see if doing so would improve matters by plugging
> an ADSL filter into the hidden socket inside the box and plugging your
modem into the RJ11.
I've done that and will test it over the next couple of days to see the
results.
> If the wire length allows, you can even bodily plug the faceplate into
> the filter and then plug a local phone into the normal socket on the
> faceplate. Yes, it looks like a dogs dinner, but the result is
> electrically like a central faceplate filter which is always a Good
> Thing (R), and your extensions will work and won't need additional
> filters.
Have tried to do that, but to get the filter to sit up sufficiently against
the back of the face place it will require cutting away a lot of the face
plate, since the RJ11 and the phone cable prevent a close fit. So i'll try
your first suggestion first. I'm presuming this second option means not
using the I-plate at all is that right? Many thanks.
John
Peter Able
Sep 7, 2012, 12:37:29 PM9/7/12
to
> Check out my previous post to see my opinion of a central filter and
> the limitations of the I-Plate.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Graham.
> %Profound_observation%
and enquiries.
PA
john ryan
Sep 7, 2012, 1:27:02 PM9/7/12
to
"Peter Able" <stuck@home> wrote in message
news:mo-dnbgFkvZOv9fN...@brightview.co.uk...
>
>> Check out my previous post to see my opinion of a central filter and
>> the limitations of the I-Plate.
>>
>> Graham.
>> Check out my previous post to see my opinion of a central filter and
>> the limitations of the I-Plate.
>>
>> %Profound_observation%
==================================================================================
>
> And mine, posted just 14 seconds after Graham's and making similar points
> and enquiries.
>
> PA
********* Peter thanks. I wasn't quite able to understand your previous
> And mine, posted just 14 seconds after Graham's and making similar points
> and enquiries.
>
> PA
post since i was just beginning to get my mind around what is *very*
complicated for me. I see you mention plugging into the i-plate, which i
wasn't quite sure was to be done when i just followed Grahams first option.
(i.e. whether to use the i-plate or plug directly into the back plate).
The internet connection disconnected within five minutes of use without
using the i-plate just now, so have now inserted the I-plate with the
filter/splitter plugged directly into it. Should i now plug the DECT phone
into the face plate or the filter splitter, please?
One thing i didn't mention before is that even though the relevent wires are
severed in the BT junction box, the phone extension sockets are still
connected. Which is why I wondering where to disconnect the extension wires
from; if experts here think it still necessary.
Graham.
Sep 7, 2012, 8:24:08 PM9/7/12
to
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 18:27:02 +0100, "john ryan" <nz8y...@mail.invalid>
wrote:
>
Yes, you really want to eliminate that extension wiring even if there
is nothing plugged into the sockets at the far end.
IIUC, it is not connected to the faceplate.
Try taking the rest of the master socket off the wall, On the back are
two screw terminals marked A&B There should be just one pair of wires
on these terminals, the incoming line from outside. If there are other
wires these will go to the extensions so remove them.
If they are not connected there, they must be connected *somewhere*
perhaps even before the master socket, that's not unusual.
Where does the telephone line enter the house? Can you follow it and
look for a junction box of some sort?
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
wrote:
>
is nothing plugged into the sockets at the far end.
IIUC, it is not connected to the faceplate.
Try taking the rest of the master socket off the wall, On the back are
two screw terminals marked A&B There should be just one pair of wires
on these terminals, the incoming line from outside. If there are other
wires these will go to the extensions so remove them.
If they are not connected there, they must be connected *somewhere*
perhaps even before the master socket, that's not unusual.
Where does the telephone line enter the house? Can you follow it and
look for a junction box of some sort?
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Stephen Wolstenholme
Sep 9, 2012, 9:36:38 AM9/9/12
to
On Wed, 5 Sep 2012 13:26:39 +0100, "john ryan" <nz8y...@mail.invalid>
wrote:
>My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
>there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
>transmitter base.
>
>We keep getting a lot of internet disconnections say three a day on average,
>not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
>connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
>
>we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
>base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
>supplying the modem router and phone base.
>
>Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to the
>far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
>extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
>disconnections? Thanks.
>
Have you tried low power? Press the ECO button to switch to low power.
Steve
--
Neural network software applications, help and support.
Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com
wrote:
>My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
>there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
>transmitter base.
>
>We keep getting a lot of internet disconnections say three a day on average,
>not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
>connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
>
>we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
>base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
>supplying the modem router and phone base.
>
>Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to the
>far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
>extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
>disconnections? Thanks.
>
Steve
--
Neural network software applications, help and support.
Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com
john ryan
Sep 11, 2012, 1:41:27 PM9/11/12
to
"Graham." <m...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in message
> %Profound_observation%
===================================================================================
I've now made a few discoveries that stupidly I had forgotten all about. I
know there are some very good brains around here in this group, but it might
need a few Sherlock Holmes genes as well. Whilst tracing back from the BT
master socket to find the point the phone extension lines joined up from and
then pulling out the furniture. (only the wife ever looks behind the settee
when cleaning), I *found* a NTL master socket on the skirting board.
A few years ago soon after optic cable first was available here in north
London I applied for the optic internet connection and telephone from NTL
and then Virgin. The engineer who came stripped out the old telephone cable
from the junction box inside the hall (the one that is fed in from the
overhead telephone cable from a telegraph pole outside[house built in 1936
so that's a pretty old connection] ) and he ran the new cable to a little
junction box (size 5 x 4.5 cm) that has two rows of six contact points. This
new line then continued on out of this junction box through the wall to the
living room with the computer and to a NTL master socket. But at that time
they had trouble with laying the optic cable in the pavement or some such,
and they said they could not connect me after all to optic fibre internet so
I declined their telephone line connection as well.
This new NTL master socket was disconnected (or never connected at the time
I can't remember), but is still in place on the wall and whose wires still
run into the little 5x4 junction box in the hall. This NTL master socket is
NTL Identity number 1036886 and seems to have more circuitry in it than the
BT one that I have just fitted the i-plate to.
The mystery begins (for me at least) because the 5x4 junction box has some
old original cable running out of it, which then disappears down the carpet.
I'm guessing that this might lead to the BT master socket and those elusive
phone extensions, but am not sure about this. The new cable going into the
5x4 from outside has only the blue (+white bands) and white (+blue
bands)connected. Coming out of the 5x4 to the NTL master socket the:
blue(+white), white(blue), orange(white) and white(orange) is connected. The
old original cable coming out and going down the floor has a whole mass of
wires connected up in the 5x4 box. The BT master socket has
blue(white),white(blue)and orange(white connected). The NTL box has
blue(white) and white(blue) connected but has not the orange connected which
I suppose is why it does not work? (since the BT one has the orange
connected).
Is there any reason I cannot cut all the connections on the old cable, join
the new cable coming to the 5x4 new cable coming out of the 5x4 and use the
NTL master socket, instead of the BT master socket? (even though BT is my
phone provider).
I would also need to find out what hole to join the orange wire to in the
NTL master socket, I'm guessing.
Hope have I have explained this so it's understandable. Thanks for any
further advice.
john k
Graham.
Sep 11, 2012, 5:43:27 PM9/11/12
to
it? VM engineers are well adept at "borrowing" BT cabling to make life
easier for themselves.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
john ryan
Sep 12, 2012, 4:23:00 AM9/12/12
to
"Graham." <m...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in message
> %Profound_observation%
=================================================================================
The virgin master socket is dead. But its only the orange wire that is not
connected inside it. To fully connect it to the incoming cable from outside,
i can pull out the wires from the 5x4 junction box and buy an insert tool
i'm guessing? Just wanted to run it by this group. Also if i had some
trouble with my BT line and called a BT engineer would i get non
co-operation from BT if I had by-passed their master socket? Or Maybe the BT
master socket is more up to date now i have bought the i-plate?
john ryan
Sep 12, 2012, 1:03:24 PM9/12/12
to
"Stephen Wolstenholme" <st...@npsl1.com> wrote in message
news:po6p481kptgsf884s...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 5 Sep 2012 13:26:39 +0100, "john ryan" <nz8y...@mail.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
>>there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
>>transmitter base.
>>
>>We keep getting a lot of internet disconnections say three a day on
>>average,
>>not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
>>connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
>>
>>we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
>>base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
>>supplying the modem router and phone base.
>>
>>Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to the
>>far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
>>extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
>>disconnections? Thanks.
> Have you tried low power? Press the ECO button to switch to low power.
> Steve
==================================================================================
> wrote:
>
>>My modem router is right next to the incoming bt socket, also plugged in
>>there in close proximity (14 inches or so )is the Panasonic Cordless Phone
>>transmitter base.
>>
>>We keep getting a lot of internet disconnections say three a day on
>>average,
>>not only on the wireless connected laptop upstairs; but also the wired
>>connected desk top in the same room as the bt socket.
>>
>>we have an I-plate on the bt socket and splitters on the cordless phone
>>base. And a small surge protector plug in the same trailing socket mains
>>supplying the modem router and phone base.
>>
>>Would it likely make any difference to move the cordless phone base to the
>>far side of the room away from the modem router using a long telephone
>>extension lead, or would that not likely make any improvement to these
>>disconnections? Thanks.
> Have you tried low power? Press the ECO button to switch to low power.
> Steve
Spoke to my internet service provider today and they are going to lend me
one of their their modem routers so they can test my line from their end.
They said i must disconnect my internal phone extensions which i am now
trying to do. They said to call out a BT broadband engineer is a minimum of
�120 before he actually does anything.....gulp.
I have drawn a diagram of the four different cable connections coming into
the juntion box. I would be so grateful is someone might kindly guess which
ones i should try disconnecting, to disconnect the two internal telephone
extensions. Many thanks.
See this link for diagram of wiring:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=wthhzs&s=6
john k
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 12, 2012, 1:31:14 PM9/12/12
to
> I have drawn a diagram of the four different cable connections coming into
> the juntion box. I would be so grateful is someone might kindly guess which
> ones i should try disconnecting, to disconnect the two internal telephone
> extensions. Many thanks.
>
> See this link for diagram of wiring:
>
> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=wthhzs&s=6
>
> john k
>
>
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