"Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband: coming your way" from OpenReach, what options do I have?

[Chris Green]

I know this has been discussed quite a lot here before and I did read
much of what was said but since I have just received an E-Mail from
OpenReach announcing that they are coming my way I need to take a bit
more notice! :-)

Currently we're with PlusNet on FTTC which has been excellent here,
bounces against the stops at 80Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up all the time.
I suspect there are not many heavy users locally and so there's little
upstream contention either.

Anyway, questions:-

How soon after "Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband: coming your way"
is anything likely to actually happen?

My 'main' router is currently a Draytek 2860n-plus, presumably I
can just plug the RJ-45 from the new fibre 'modem' into the 'WAN2'
on the Draytek and that's it, yes?

Are PlusNet getting out of the dark ages yet? I.e. what are the
chances of staying with them? If not where do I go without it
costing (much) more?

Will there be ways of keeping our existing (landline) phone
number, I know this has been discussed a lot but there doesn't
really seem to have been a definitive answer. We do need a
non-mobile phone line here as mobile reception is decidedly flakey.

My M-I-L who lives with use has her own landline, also with
PlusNet. If she 'does nothing' will anything much happen or will
the old copper connection carry on being available, at least for a
while?

--
Chris Green
·

[Andy Burns]

Chris Green wrote:

> How soon after "Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband: coming your way"
> is anything likely to actually happen?

Pass

> My 'main' router is currently a Draytek 2860n-plus, presumably I
> can just plug the RJ-45 from the new fibre 'modem' into the 'WAN2'
> on the Draytek and that's it, yes?

Yes, PPPoE

> Are PlusNet getting out of the dark ages yet? I.e. what are the
> chances of staying with them? If not where do I go without it
> costing (much) more?

They are now selling FTTP (at least to existing customers) what they are not
offering is *any* form of voice service to go with it, it's not clear if you can
port your PSTN number away to another provider without cancelling your FTTC
service an potentially scuppering the FTTP install ... I'd check their forums as
I presume the issue will have arisen by now, maybe ask Bob in p.s.c-f

[Roderick Stewart]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 12:21:56 +0100, Chris Green <c...@isbd.net> wrote:

>I know this has been discussed quite a lot here before and I did read
>much of what was said but since I have just received an E-Mail from
>OpenReach announcing that they are coming my way I need to take a bit
>more notice! :-)
>
>Currently we're with PlusNet on FTTC which has been excellent here,
>bounces against the stops at 80Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up all the time.
>I suspect there are not many heavy users locally and so there's little
>upstream contention either.
>
>Anyway, questions:-
>
> How soon after "Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband: coming your way"
> is anything likely to actually happen?

Use the availability checker on your ISPs website to see if you're
eligible. As soon as FTTH is available in your area it will be
available through any ISP that offers it.

> My 'main' router is currently a Draytek 2860n-plus, presumably I
> can just plug the RJ-45 from the new fibre 'modem' into the 'WAN2'
> on the Draytek and that's it, yes?

Yes. You'll have to change a setting in the Draytek to make it use the
RJ45 input instead of the DSL input, but that's about all.

> Are PlusNet getting out of the dark ages yet? I.e. what are the
> chances of staying with them? If not where do I go without it
> costing (much) more?

Zen.

Their Fritzbox modem/router is very good too. It works with ADSL,
VDSL, or an external modem via RJ45. It also has a phone input socket
in case you want to use your landline phone with their VOIP service,
and it also contains a DECT base station so you would only need
cordless handsets and no external base station.

They have a Youtube channel with a few help videos showing you how to
set up the Fritzbox.

I had a Draytek 2762 before, but for the couple of weeks I used the
Fritzbox on VDSL before the fibre installation, it worked slightly
faster than the Draytek (28/6 instead of 26/5). You can of course
configure wireless and local IP settings to match your previous setup.

> Will there be ways of keeping our existing (landline) phone
> number, I know this has been discussed a lot but there doesn't
> really seem to have been a definitive answer. We do need a
> non-mobile phone line here as mobile reception is decidedly flakey.

Yes. See above. Zen charge 3ukp extra for this and you no longer have
the 14ukp landline charge because you won't have a landline.

> My M-I-L who lives with use has her own landline, also with
> PlusNet. If she 'does nothing' will anything much happen or will
> the old copper connection carry on being available, at least for a
> while?

Yes. Nothing will change unless you ask for it. Maybe one day they'll
eventually abandon copper and require everybody to change, but nobody
knows when.

Rod.

[Graham J]

Chris Green wrote:
> I know this has been discussed quite a lot here before and I did read
> much of what was said but since I have just received an E-Mail from
> OpenReach announcing that they are coming my way I need to take a bit
> more notice! :-)
>
> Currently we're with PlusNet on FTTC which has been excellent here,
> bounces against the stops at 80Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up all the time.
> I suspect there are not many heavy users locally and so there's little
> upstream contention either.
>
> Anyway, questions:-
>
> How soon after "Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband: coming your way"
> is anything likely to actually happen?

Your guess is as good as mine. Informed opinion from local Openreach
technicians is "about 2035, after I've retired!".

> My 'main' router is currently a Draytek 2860n-plus, presumably I
> can just plug the RJ-45 from the new fibre 'modem' into the 'WAN2'
> on the Draytek and that's it, yes?

You might not get a modem that converts fibre to Ethernet. Probably
this will depend on your ISP. You may be forced to take a router with
integrated fibre modem, so you could lose all the advantages of your
Draytek (specifically VPNs, bandwidth monitoring, syslog, etc.)

> Are PlusNet getting out of the dark ages yet? I.e. what are the
> chances of staying with them? If not where do I go without it
> costing (much) more?
>
> Will there be ways of keeping our existing (landline) phone
> number, I know this has been discussed a lot but there doesn't
> really seem to have been a definitive answer. We do need a
> non-mobile phone line here as mobile reception is decidedly flakey.

The number, yes. The landline service, no. In due course (Openreach
say by 2025) all copper POTS services will be withdrawn and replaced by
fibre to the premises (FTTP). Depending on your ISP you will be
provided with a router containing a fibre modem and a VoIP module, so
your existing number will be applied to the VoIP service. This may not
suit your requirements - so it will be worth investigating alternatives.

In reality there will be (probably rural) geographic locations where
Openreach will not provide FTTP. It's not clear what will happen at
these locations. It's very likely that these will be locations where
there is currently no mobile service. Given that very rural areas like
the Shetland Isles apparently have a very good mobile service, it may be
that mobile providers will be encouraged to improve their services in
flat rural areas like the fenland around Holbeach.

Mobile services generally use CGNAT so a user can be issued with an IP
that is blacklisted - and many reputable email providers won't accept
traffic from such IPs.

> My M-I-L who lives with use has her own landline, also with
> PlusNet. If she 'does nothing' will anything much happen or will
> the old copper connection carry on being available, at least for a
> while?

It may be available for a while - at least until about 2025. Her
service may be replaced by an integrated router-modem-VoIP device.

Wherever the POTS service is discontinued, whatever replaces it will
require mains power to function. As we saw in 2020 with Storm Dennis,
power cuts of 15 days or more were common. This could be a serious
issue when we all move to FTTP.


--
Graham J

[Andy Burns]

Graham J wrote:

> You might not get a modem that converts fibre to Ethernet.  Probably this will
> depend on your ISP.

I think for any ISP using openreach's GPON. you *will* get an ONT with gigabit
ethernet port, because that is their demarc point. All bets are off with an
alt-Net.

[Mark Carver]

On 06/07/2022 12:21, Chris Green wrote:
> How soon after "Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband: coming your way"
> is anything likely to actually happen?
>

Impossible to say. I received the same email as you on April 25th this year.
There's been Openreach activity recently, sticking new blue nylon draw
ropes into ducts that serve the bases of some telegraph poles, and a
local cul-de-sac
that had direct burial BT cables has been dug up, and duct work
installed, but that's about it.

No sign of any fibre being pulled, and the fibre distribution boxes
being installed at the top of strategic poles

[Mark Carver]

On 06/07/2022 12:21, Chris Green wrote:
>

> My 'main' router is currently a Draytek 2860n-plus, presumably I
> can just plug the RJ-45 from the new fibre 'modem' into the 'WAN2'
> on the Draytek and that's it, yes?
>
>

Yes, it's a PPPoE connection, however, I gather you need to remove any
mention of VLAN 101 in the config (which often gets applied to copper
FTTC/VDSL PPPoE connections)

[Graham J]

I saw fibre cables being installed on poles in the rural areas around
Holbeach 10 years ago, but nothing has happened since ....

--
Graham J

[Roderick Stewart]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 13:09:32 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

Openreach install the fibre to ethernet modem. The one I've just had
fitted is about the size of a British light switch and is made of
white plastic, and is fixed to the wall. There are only three
connections, power, fibre and ethernet. Power input from an external
12V 1A supply built into a 13A plug like a phone charger. Actual
consumption measures about 5W.

If you were concerned about 5W running 24/7 I daresay you could switch
it off at night with none of the speed adapting consequences of doing
the same to an ADSL or VDSL modem, though I've just left mine running.
It takes less than a minute to synchronise when switched on.

You connect this box by ethernet to an external router. Your ISP may
provide one, or you can use your own. You can use either a "cable"
router which can only accommodate ethernet input, or an ADSL/VDSL type
that can also use one of its ethernet sockets as a WAN connection,
which I think most of the good ones do.

Both boxes need mains power, so you'll need two 13A sockets or a
splitter adaptor.

Rod.

[Graham J]

It's the VDSL modem for the FTTC service that requires VLAN tag 101, in
order that it can communicate with the remote equipment. Potentially
the FTTC service can provide multiple channels and the VLAN tag is the
mechanism used to distinguish between channels.

In effect this VDSL modem provides the Ethernet connection to your
router's WAN port, and the remote equipment implements the Ethernet
connection to your ISP. In a typical router the VDSL modem is
integrated within it, so it is the router's configuration page which
allows you to specify the VLAN tag; but the value is passed to the modem
component.

If you have a separate FTTC modem (e.g Vigor 130) then that has to be
configured with VLAN tag 101 - this is usually the default configuration
for devices sold in the UK.

For FTTP the Openreach GPON service provides the Ethernet connection.
There may be multiple optical channels available, and the ONT (Optical
Network Terminal) will separate these out: for example, one for the
user's Ethernet, and another for VoIP to the POTS socket on the ONT.
Your router does not need to know anything about the mechanics of the
modem in the ONT.

No doubt in future Draytek and the like will produce a router containg a
GPON modem. It might then have a management interface that provides
control over the GPON modem, so there may be a need to provide VLAN
tagging parameters or some equivalent.


--
Graham J

[Andy Burns]

Roderick Stewart wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> I think for any ISP using openreach's GPON. you *will* get an ONT
>

> Openreach install the fibre to ethernet modem.

Yes, aka the ONT (optical network terminal)

> The one I've just had fitted is about the size of a British light switch and
> is made of white plastic, and is fixed to the wall. There are only three
> connections, power, fibre and ethernet.

Some ONTs have multiple ethernet ports for e.g blocks of flats each with their
own router only need one fibre into the building, or people who want a "home"
router from one ISP and a "work" router from a different ISP. Older ONTs have
had phone sockets for VoIP but that seems to be migrating to having the phone
socket in the router, or if your VoIP is not supplied by your ISP, then using a
separate ATA.

[Andy Burns]

Graham J wrote:

> No doubt in future Draytek and the like will produce a router containg a GPON modem.

I think openreach will be wary of that, because

1) the ONT initiates the encrypted session towards the headend OLT

2) a rogue ONT could splatter light over (up to) 32 other customers upstream data

Other countries do seem to allow it, and GPON SFPs are available there, so
potentially am ISP or customer-owned router with an SFP slot then openreach
supply the SFP with the correct tx/rx wavelengths and security info burned into it.

[Chris Green]

I remember doing something about that a *long* while ago! :-) I can't
remember whether I added or removed it though, whatever, I think
that's OK.

--
Chris Green
·

[Peter Johnson]

You may still need a VLAN setting with FTTP. I do (911) to use my own
router on my CityFibre/Zen connection. I found it by searching through
the config options in the Zen-provided router. Fortunately for me my
Asus DSL router identified it as the VLAN. I've just replaced that
router with another Asus device that doesn't have the DSL component
and on that it's called a VID, hidden away on the LAN-IPTV settings
page - which took some finding out.

[Martin Brown]

Are you sure it isn't already available. The time between them pulling
cables and hanging them on the overheads to it being available was a
matter of weeks. In fact it became available about 3 months *before*
they bothered to tell anybody it was available in our area.

I first found out when a neighbour was put on it because no working
copper line pairs were available. I had been on FTTP for a couple of
months before a snail mail postcard arrived to tell me I could get it!

Simplest way to find out is try to sign up for full fibre with BT and
see what happens. I suspect the ONT output is compatible with A Draytek
router but you might lose out on BT's proprietary "Digital Voice" VOIP.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Mark Carver]

Stick your landline number into here.

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

You're looking for 'WBC FTTC' to be available, third or forth line from
the top

[Roderick Stewart]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 20:26:52 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>Simplest way to find out is try to sign up for full fibre with BT and
>see what happens. I suspect the ONT output is compatible with A Draytek
>router but you might lose out on BT's proprietary "Digital Voice" VOIP.

You shouldn't need to sign up to anything in order to find out. Your
ISP will probably have a fibre eligibility checker on their website
inviting you to enter your postcode and/or landline number, to see if
it's available to you yet. That's if they haven't already sent you
emails, or leaflets through your door (because they want your money).

You wouldn't even have to stick with the same ISP if you don't want
to. If fibre to the premises is available via any of them, it should
be available via all of them, because it's Openreach that installs the
actual fibre.

Rod.

[Tim+]

The BT broadband checker seems to say that FTTP is available but Zen don’t
seem to think so.

I say “seems” as in the middle of the page it says FTTP on demand is
available but at the bottom of the page it says not. Somewhat confusing.


“Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate
(Mbps) Downstream Range (Mbps) Availability Date FTTP Install Process
FTTP on Demand 330 50 -- Available --
ADSL Products Downstream Line Rate (Mbps) Upstream Line Rate
(Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) Availability Date
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 17 -- 10 to 19.5 Available
WBC ADSL2+ Annex M Up to 17 Up to 1.5 10 to 19.5 Available
ADSL Max Up to 7.5 -- 6.5 to 8 Available
WBC Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Other Offerings Availability Date
VDSL Multicast Available
ADSL Multicast Available
Exchange Product Restrictions Status
FTTP Priority Exchange N
WLR Withdrawal N
SOADSL Restriction Y
The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme

WLR is currently available at the exchange

SOADSL is restricted at the exchange

FTTP is not available”

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

[Martin Brown]

That is why the only sure way to find out it to try and buy it and see
what happens. The answers can only really be YES or NO but the websites
that show services available from an exchange or to a phone number can
be *VERY* misleading. Postcode based ones are slightly better.

It is highly unlikely that your fibre will come from your local copper
wire exchange. They are typically run back to a much larger exchange in
a town ~10-15 miles away in the rural areas (much closer in cities).

My local exchange still says FTTP *NOT* available (from it).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Martin Brown]

On 07/07/2022 10:04, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 20:26:52 +0100, Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Simplest way to find out is try to sign up for full fibre with BT and
>> see what happens. I suspect the ONT output is compatible with A Draytek
>> router but you might lose out on BT's proprietary "Digital Voice" VOIP.
>
> You shouldn't need to sign up to anything in order to find out. Your
> ISP will probably have a fibre eligibility checker on their website
> inviting you to enter your postcode and/or landline number, to see if
> it's available to you yet. That's if they haven't already sent you
> emails, or leaflets through your door (because they want your money).

They seem remarkably slow to do so. Our village had fibre enabled and
installable for nearly 3 months before they notified anyone about it!

>
> You wouldn't even have to stick with the same ISP if you don't want
> to. If fibre to the premises is available via any of them, it should
> be available via all of them, because it's Openreach that installs the
> actual fibre.

Although it is OR that do the fibre install BT has the USP that if you
want to retain your classical landline phone number you must go with
them (or do some rather complex juggling with multiple lines and a self
transfer of your phone number to a VOIP service that kills your ADSL).

I chose the easy path by moving from EE to BT to keep my phone number.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Andy Burns]

Tim+ wrote:

> I say “seems” as in the middle of the page it says FTTP on demand is
> available

FTTPoD is not FTTP

I understand openreach are considering stopping selling FTTPoD, you probably
wouldn't want it if you saw the price to install it, most likely involves
hundreds of yards of digging.

[Mark Carver]

On 07/07/2022 12:13, Andy Burns wrote:
> Tim+ wrote:
>
>> I say “seems” as in the middle of the page it says FTTP on demand is
>> available
>
> FTTPoD is not FTTP
>

Indeed it's not. As I said the magic result to look for is *WBC* FTTP

[Tim+]

Which stands for…? Just curious.

[notya...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 6 July 2022 at 12:33:04 UTC+1, Chris Green wrote:
> I know this has been discussed quite a lot here before and I did read
> much of what was said but since I have just received an E-Mail from
> OpenReach announcing that they are coming my way I need to take a bit
> more notice! :-)
>
> Currently we're with PlusNet on FTTC which has been excellent here,
> bounces against the stops at 80Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up all the time.
> I suspect there are not many heavy users locally and so there's little
> upstream contention either.

Sounds perfectly adequate for domestic use.

>
> Anyway, questions:-
>
> How soon after "Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband: coming your way"
> is anything likely to actually happen?

Depends on where you are FTTC rolled out here in 2009 (first in country). It was a few months from pulling the fibre to service offered, but of course you had to pay more.

>
> My 'main' router is currently a Draytek 2860n-plus, presumably I
> can just plug the RJ-45 from the new fibre 'modem' into the 'WAN2'
> on the Draytek and that's it, yes?

Pretty much.

>
> Are PlusNet getting out of the dark ages yet? I.e. what are the
> chances of staying with them? If not where do I go without it
> costing (much) more?

It is BT lite, buy from the organ grinder.

>
> Will there be ways of keeping our existing (landline) phone
> number, I know this has been discussed a lot but there doesn't
> really seem to have been a definitive answer. We do need a
> non-mobile phone line here as mobile reception is decidedly flakey.

A friend has just had BT digital line installed in his office (despite not ordering it). The number is the same. The BT Cloud Phone Express app' also provides it in your mobile phone.

Of course if you just get [fibre] broadband from another provider then you can port your BT number out to Voipfone or similar - I did this in 2008. Voip will also run native in many modern mobile phones over Wi-Fi and / or 3/4G. I first did this in 2009 in a Nokia N79.

>
> My M-I-L who lives with use has her own landline, also with
> PlusNet. If she 'does nothing' will anything much happen or will
> the old copper connection carry on being available, at least for a
> while?

Port it to Voip anyway.

>
> --
> Chris Green
> ·

PS maybe you should have bought a Draytek router with Voip built in?

[Andy Burns]

Tim+ wrote:

> Mark Carver wrote:

>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> FTTPoD is not FTTP
>>
>> Indeed it's not. As I said the magic result to look for is *WBC* FTTP
>
> Which stands for…? Just curious.

Wholesale Broadband Connect

Does the checker ever refer to it as GEA FTTP?
Generic Ethernet Access before you ask :-)

[bert]

In article <jilf86...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
<mark....@invalid.invalid> writes

Open reach have not offered anything other than a VOIP phone. This has
resulted in major issues being raised by people who use the landline for
alarms in particular i.e. the elderly. Dependency on mains power was
also raised as an issue for people who don't have mobiles, again mostly
elderly. As a result the roll out was suspended. I've not heard of it
being restarted but they may well keep going with the physical
installation.

The FTTP supply around here does offer an interface to a standard pots
phone about £10.00 per month unlimited calls. Not sure if they support
texts on that interface, but I've not chased it up as those who decided
to order a service from them have been given March 2023 as connection
date even thought the cable is in the road outside the house. I've stuck
with Plusnet fttc for the time being until things settle down.
--
bert

[Mark Carver]

On 07/07/2022 17:42, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Depends on where you are FTTC rolled out here in 2009 (first in country). It was a few months from pulling the fibre to service offered, but of course you had to pay more.

FTTC is a totally different kettle of fish in terms of complexity.
A single cabinet serving one or two hundred homes fed by fibre, not one
or two hundred homes all individualy fed by fibre

>
>> Are PlusNet getting out of the dark ages yet? I.e. what are the
>> chances of staying with them? If not where do I go without it
>> costing (much) more?
> It is BT lite, buy from the organ grinder.

The organ grinder is Openreach. They don't offer any domestic products
directly to the public

Plusnet (I find) are easier to deal with (via the community forum route)
than BT Retail

>
> A friend has just had BT digital line installed in his office (despite not ordering it). The number is the same. The BT Cloud Phone Express app' also provides it in your mobile phone.
>
> Of course if you just get [fibre] broadband from another provider then you can port your BT number out to Voipfone or similar - I did this in 2008.

You can do that, but not as an upgrade on a single account from FTTC to
FTTP. The moment you port out your landline number, your account is
killed, and your transfer to FTTP is also killed.

You have to port the number out, let the FTTC service die, then arrange
a fresh FTTP install. So you are likely to suffer a few days with no
broadband service.
Or arrange the FTTP install in advance, and dual run for a week or two

[MB]

I was talking to a BT engineer fixing a problem, I think he said we will
be moved to fibre next year but they are starting first on the outlying
areas, many of whom only have slow connections now.

From what he said the plans and details of what will be done, change
regularly!

[Martin Brown]

On 07/07/2022 23:32, bert wrote:
> In article <jilf86...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
> <mark....@invalid.invalid> writes
>> On 06/07/2022 12:21, Chris Green wrote:
>>>      How soon after "Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband: coming your way"
>>>      is anything likely to actually happen?
>>>
>> Impossible to say. I received the same email as you on April 25th this
>> year.
>> There's been Openreach activity recently, sticking new blue nylon draw
>> ropes into ducts that serve the bases of some telegraph poles, and a
>> local cul-de-sac
>> that had direct burial BT cables has been dug up, and duct work
>> installed, but that's about it.
>>
>> No sign of any fibre being pulled, and the fibre distribution boxes
>> being installed at the top of strategic poles
> Open reach have not offered anything other than a VOIP phone. This has

That isn't quite right. You can have old copper line pair and full fibre
- that is exactly how I upgraded. The catch is that once you have a fast
internet connection they want to upgrade you to "Digital Voice" VOIP to
get the decent copper line pair back for some other customer.

Where I live working copper line pairs are as rare as hens teeth!

> resulted in major issues being raised by people who use the landline for
> alarms in particular i.e. the elderly. Dependency on mains power was
> also raised as an issue for people who don't have mobiles, again mostly
> elderly. As a result the roll out was suspended. I've not heard of it
> being restarted but they may well keep going with the physical
> installation.

They really didn't think it through :(

>
> The FTTP supply around here does offer an interface to a standard pots
> phone about £10.00 per month unlimited calls. Not sure if they support
> texts on that interface, but I've not chased it up as those who decided
> to order a service from them have been given March 2023 as connection
> date even thought the cable is in the road outside the house. I've stuck
> with Plusnet fttc for the time being until things settle down.

You can also have chargeable landline calls for next to nothing on full
fibre with BT (that is what I now have). More than enough minutes on the
mobile phones to avoid using landline for any outgoing calls.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Peter Johnson]

On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 23:32:03 +0100, bert <be...@bert.bert.com> wrote:

>In article <jilf86...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
><mark....@invalid.invalid> writes
>>On 06/07/2022 12:21, Chris Green wrote:
>>> How soon after "Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband: coming your way"
>>> is anything likely to actually happen?
>>>
>>Impossible to say. I received the same email as you on April 25th this year.
>>There's been Openreach activity recently, sticking new blue nylon draw
>>ropes into ducts that serve the bases of some telegraph poles, and a
>>local cul-de-sac
>>that had direct burial BT cables has been dug up, and duct work
>>installed, but that's about it.
>>
>>No sign of any fibre being pulled, and the fibre distribution boxes
>>being installed at the top of strategic poles
>Open reach have not offered anything other than a VOIP phone. This has
>resulted in major issues being raised by people who use the landline for
>alarms in particular i.e. the elderly. Dependency on mains power was
>also raised as an issue for people who don't have mobiles, again mostly
>elderly. As a result the roll out was suspended. I've not heard of it
>being restarted but they may well keep going with the physical
>installation.

What do they do (re alarms etc) in countries that have been totally
digital for years, like Singapore?

>
>The FTTP supply around here does offer an interface to a standard pots

>phone about Ł10.00 per month unlimited calls. Not sure if they support

[Graham J]

Peter Johnson wrote:

[snip]

>
> What do they do (re alarms etc) in countries that have been totally
> digital for years, like Singapore?

I tried an alarm from Tunstall with a VoIP system about 3 years ago. It
didn't work. It dialled the number OK, then kept trying again ...

Nobody at Tunstall could explain why it failed - after all their unit
just uses audio tones to signal its message to their system, and VoIP
carries audio tones in the form of speech perfectly well.

They did admit to knowing that the problem existed, and now have
products that have an IP interface, so bypassing the issue.


--
Graham J

[Martin Brown]

On 08/07/2022 16:52, Peter Johnson wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 23:32:03 +0100, bert <be...@bert.bert.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <jilf86...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
>> <mark....@invalid.invalid> writes
>>> On 06/07/2022 12:21, Chris Green wrote:
>>>> How soon after "Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband: coming your way"
>>>> is anything likely to actually happen?
>>>>
>>> Impossible to say. I received the same email as you on April 25th this year.
>>> There's been Openreach activity recently, sticking new blue nylon draw
>>> ropes into ducts that serve the bases of some telegraph poles, and a
>>> local cul-de-sac
>>> that had direct burial BT cables has been dug up, and duct work
>>> installed, but that's about it.
>>>
>>> No sign of any fibre being pulled, and the fibre distribution boxes
>>> being installed at the top of strategic poles
>> Open reach have not offered anything other than a VOIP phone. This has
>> resulted in major issues being raised by people who use the landline for
>> alarms in particular i.e. the elderly. Dependency on mains power was
>> also raised as an issue for people who don't have mobiles, again mostly
>> elderly. As a result the roll out was suspended. I've not heard of it
>> being restarted but they may well keep going with the physical
>> installation.
>
> What do they do (re alarms etc) in countries that have been totally
> digital for years, like Singapore?

It can obviously be done but you need the right kit. Problem is that for
all digital to work as an emergency system it has to survive a powercut!
(somehow the BT suits failed to appreciate this "subtle" point)

Increasingly the alarms use mobile network SIMs to communicate back to
their control centre - not so easy to cut the wire that way.

OTOH professionals can probably jam it if they are really serious.

There was an incident near me which turned out to be a false alarm
(hedge had flail destroyed a major junction box), but which looked to
the Redcare control centre like every monitored alarm in our
neighbourhood had been cut and so a robbery was in progress at one of them!

Police raced between each monitored premises hoping to find which one
was actually being robbed. The default ring up and ask for the codeword
obviously failed since there were *no* working cables.

It took BT OR about a fortnight to sort out the resulting spaghetti.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[notya...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 8 July 2022 at 20:58:37 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 08/07/2022 16:52, Peter Johnson wrote:
> > On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 23:32:03 +0100, bert <be...@bert.bert.com> wrote:
> >

SNIP

> > What do they do (re alarms etc) in countries that have been totally
> > digital for years, like Singapore?
> It can obviously be done but you need the right kit. Problem is that for
> all digital to work as an emergency system it has to survive a powercut!
> (somehow the BT suits failed to appreciate this "subtle" point)
>

They must have forgotten. Sixty years ago my parents had a GPO shared line. Part of the installation was a large (~1l) single cell zinc-carbon battery (possibly two) to signal the exchange. When they got a dedicated line the batteries were no longer needed so I got them to do electrical experiments. Lasted years.

>
> --
> Regards,
> Martin Brown

[Mark Carver]

On 08/07/2022 16:52, Peter Johnson wrote:
>

> What do they do (re alarms etc) in countries that have been totally
> digital for years, like Singapore?
>

I'm not sure there's too much of a 'welfare' culture in Singapore !

[Graham J]

Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <f9b769f5-8396-47cd...@googlegroups.com>,

> notya...@gmail.com <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> They must have forgotten. Sixty years ago my parents had a GPO
>> shared line. Part of the installation was a large (~1l) single
>> cell zinc-carbon battery (possibly two) to signal the exchange.
>> When they got a dedicated line the batteries were no longer needed
>> so I got them to do electrical experiments. Lasted years.
>

> That must have been a very early variant. Certainly in 1971 when I
> became familiar with shared service lines there was no battery
> involved. Simply earthing one leg told the exchange which subscriber
> wished to make a call and of course the partner shared service would
> earth the other leg. Similarly, ringing was done one leg to earth.
> From that period at least, you can spot an ex SS line because there
> was a ground wire connected to a GPO spike banged into the ground.
>
> What was the function of the battery do you know?

Sometimes to allow ringing of a remote extension. My uncle had one so
the house could ring his workshop (it was a business line).



--
Graham J

[Martin Brown]

Party lines were common back when phones were rare luxury items.

I don't recall any local batteries though.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Andy Burns]

On 10/07/2022 19:55, Martin Brown wrote:

> Party lines were common back when phones were rare luxury items.
>
> I don't recall any local batteries though.

My parents had one (a new estate caused a shortage of pairs from the exchange)
no battery, but an extra "local" earth wire.

[Abandoned_Trolley]

In a number of cases, those problems were solved with a "linefinder" in
the cabinet - and the customer never noticed the difference.


--
random signature text inserted here

[Abandoned_Trolley]

On 11/07/2022 09:34, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <taflng$1g43b$1...@dont-email.me>,

> Abandoned_Trolley <fr...@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 10/07/2022 21:19, Andy Burns wrote:

>

> Clearly your milage varies. :-)
>
> Bob.
>


exactly - I did my apprenticeship in London

[notya...@gmail.com]

quite small town in Scotland, maybe it was to alert the operator, I was probably only about 7 (1962/3) when it was replaced.