TalkTalk modems

[Woody]

Could anyone answer simple question please?

An elderly neighbour has had her TT router replaced. She had a Huawei
HG633 which has been replaced with a HG635, but both exhibit the same
problem - or at least perceived problem.

Power up and it goes through all its set up, flashing lights etc and
eventually stabilises with four steady greens. However after about a
half hour the Internet light goes steady red, the other lights - power,
broadband and wireless all stay steady green. TT reckon that this is
normal, the the Internet LED goes red if the router is unused for a
while - to me suggesting that it is disconnecting. Due to other
difficulties it has not been possible to check if the LED goes green
again if an attempt is made to access the Interweb without power cycling.

Does anyone else have any thoughts or experience of this issue?

--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

[Graham.]

First and foremost, don't take any notice of anything a TalkTalk
helpline agent tells you.

Is this installation VDSL or ADSL?
Why was the router changed?


http://download-c.huawei.com/download/downloadCenter?downloadId=34642&version=60395&siteCode=worldwide
The "indicators" section of the manual is a bit wooly about the
meaning of a solid red "Internet" LED, but I notice there is no
mention of an indication of the all-important "no sync" condition so
I am going to assume solid red is no sync.

So, it's the usual suspects, starting with her telephone wiring and
filter(s)

Tell us about her telephone sockets and what she has plugged into
them, including any filters, or is there a single filtered faceplate?




--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Vir Campestris]

On 21/09/2018 20:08, Graham. wrote:
> First and foremost, don't take any notice of anything a TalkTalk
> helpline agent tells you.

First and foremost, ditch TalkTalk.

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43981652>

Andy

[Martin Brown]

On 21/09/2018 16:16, Woody wrote:
> Could anyone answer simple question please?
>
> An elderly neighbour has had her TT router replaced. She had a Huawei
> HG633 which has been replaced with a HG635, but both exhibit the same
> problem - or at least perceived problem.
>
> Power up and it goes through all its set up, flashing lights etc and
> eventually stabilises with four steady greens. However after about a
> half hour the Internet light goes steady red, the other lights - power,
> broadband and wireless all stay steady green. TT reckon that this is
> normal, the the Internet LED goes red if the router is unused for a
> while - to me suggesting that it is disconnecting. Due to other
> difficulties it has not been possible to check if the LED goes green
> again if an attempt is made to access the Interweb without power cycling.

Can you direct her to browse to the diagnostics page for the modem?
(Assuming that it has a half way useful one)

>
> Does anyone else have any thoughts or experience of this issue?

Does the thing still work with a red light on or does it go green again
if she tries to actually use the net?

Anyone who wants to remain sane would do well to avoid TalkTalk. YMMV

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Woody]

ADSL 10Mb
Modem is connected through plug-in filter to incoming NTE5 - only socket

The lady (87) had tried to complain to TT last Saturday that she could
not get connection - she has only a Hudl2. The (female) TT agent was not
a native English speaker and had such a heavy accent plus was asking the
lady to crawl about on the floor plugging and unplugging cables that the
lady apologised to her that she couldn't understand what was being said
and rang off. The lady had not noticed (not that she would understand
anyway) that there were no lights on the router.
I visited on Monday morning and quickly diagnosed a failed router PSU. I
fetched a compatible PSU from home (just round the corner) and confirmed
that the router would work properly if it had power.
I tried to report the fault on her behalf (her having done security and
confirmed I could speak for her.) I too got a male non-native English
speaker who was just plain rude. He wanted me to do tests with the
router despite the fact that it was dead. He also wanted me to power up
the router to see if there were any on-screen messages on the Hudl to
indicate her bill had not been paid - he just couldn't seem to get his
head around the fact that I was talking on the phone that was part of
the package and payment is by direct debit. I am not one easily riled
but I started to loose my temper a bit as he just would not listen to
what I was saying and started shouting at me . In the end I just said we
were getting nowhere and rang off.

Here is the bit that might be of interest to readers. I went home and
did a quick Google for the CEO of TT: up popped a site that gave her
name, her direct email address, and her location so I shot off a polite
but firm email to her complaining of the problem and about the rudeness
of her staff. (It's not Dido Harding any more by the way.)
The next morning (Tuesday) the lady got a call from the Chief Execs
Office Complaints Manager. The lady excused herself as she had visitors
so the CEO-CM said she would ring back at 14:00 which she did and I took
the call (after the usual security etc.) She was very apologetic for the
way we had both been treated and said she would have a new modem sent
out that day and would call back to ensure all was well, and that the
agents concerned would be 'retrained' if necessary. True enough the
modem arrived the next morning (HG635 this time) and I fitted it
yesterday. Wa hey, it worked - except that the Internet LED went red
after about a half hour - and this was 100% repeatable both on the new
router and the old one (I had not noticed it on the old one probably as
I didn't have it powered up for long enough.)
I fired off another email to the CEO-CM last night to which she replied
this morning, said she would pass the fault to the Manchester tech team
and even if the fault was on the premises and not of their doing as a
goodwill gesture she would ensure there would be no charge if an
engineer visited. Such an engineer is visiting Monday lunchtime. He did
however ring this morning and said that the LED will go red if the modem
was not used - which I too think is a load of blx.

Interestingly another old boy down the road had similar problems with PO
Broadband (TT in disguise) a couple of years ago. I leant him a totally
different modem which cured the problem for as long as he used it but he
went back to the old modem (actually his second) and it fell over again.
He ended up being sent four identical modems before the fault
mysteriously cleared and has never returned.

OK, a long story for which I apologise, but at least it shows it pays to
complain where it hurts sometimes!

I will report back after the visit on Monday which I will attend.

[Woody]

I would not argue with that Martin. I have already pointed out to her
that she can get better service with a Sheffield call centre and much
cheaper from Plus Net. When all is resolved we will have a dig into her
costs and see what is on offer. VM is on the building (a block of four
flats) but I suspect that may be a bit pricey for her.

[Graham.]

It will be a TalkTalk engineer that visits, not Openreach,
nevertheless I would be a good idea to confirm with him/her that the
visit is FOC before letting them in.

It's fortunate that there is no extension wiring hopefully there is
little scope for it being deemed to be your fault

It may be that the DLM was reset by the bungling droid when you had
the PSU problem and, it is having problems re-training itself, maybe
that accounts for the disconnections?

Let's hope for the best then, use tea and biscuits to keep the
engineer there long enough to see if it still occurs.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Is it safe?]

I've had an HG533 for some years and is normal for the router's internet
led to go red when no PC is switched on. As soon as the PC is booted up
the led goes green. All my PCs connect through ethernet cable and have
wireless disabled. If I enable wireless (for Kindle downloads eg) I
don't know if the led will go red after a period of inactivity.

[Tim+]

Hmm, we recently realised that my mothers Talktalk internet had gone
intermittent. Moving the router away from the wireless CH stat in the hall
and plugging it into a different phone socket fixed the issue.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[Woody]

Therein lies an interesting thought. Her DECT phone and its base stand
on the small table right in front of the router. I'll try it later today
when I go round.

[Woody]

She only has a Hudl2 so wired Ethernet might be a tad difficult? ;-))

[Graham J]

It is very likely that the router is configured to drop the connection
after a half hour of non-use. Most routers have this facility, but most
do not come with it set that way "out of the box". However, trying to
get a web page once the timeout period is exceeded should force it to
reconnect. But this might take a couple of minutes, so obviously to
most users the router will appear to be faulty.

You could find out, by connecting a proper computer to the router using
an Ethernet cable and examining the built-in web page of the router. If
you need help to do this please ask here, we can give detailed instructions.

This procedure will allow you to monitor what happens.

--
Graham J

[Martin Brown]

Is it the "Internet" light that goes out or the (wired) "Ethernet" one?

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Roderick Stewart]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 21:38:44 +0100, Vir Campestris
<vir.cam...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>> First and foremost, don't take any notice of anything a TalkTalk
>> helpline agent tells you.
>
>First and foremost, ditch TalkTalk.
>
><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43981652>

Then change to Zen, or perhaps Plusnet, and buy a decent modem/router
of your own, such as this one-

Search on Amazon for B01LFGTEI6

There are others, but this is a TP Link one that can do ADSL and VDSL
and has 5GHz wireless. It's worth paying for a good one with a bit of
versatility because you'll only need to buy it once. You can keep it
if you change service providers and don't need to accept whatever
cheap shoddy one the new ISP may offer you.

Rod.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Graham.]

What does it mean though, the router won't be designed for its WAN
port to go to sleep, how could it then respond to the normal ARP
activity that occurs in the background, and how could you begin a
session remotely?

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Graham.]

[Old Codger]

That is where Zen is good. If you tell them you have done something
they accept it. Also their support staff are in Sheffield and speak
English.


Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]

[Graham.]

Looks like Graham J may well be correct :)

Make sure that "PPP trigger mode" is set to "Always online"
Read page, 1 then carry out the config on page 5 here:

http://docplayer.net/23798691-Configure-always-on-mode-adsl-routers.html
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Davey]

On Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:08:32 +0100
Old Codger <oldc...@antieuro.com> wrote:

> On 21/09/2018 22:56, Woody wrote:
> > On Fri 21/09/2018 20:08, Graham. wrote:
> >>> Could anyone answer simple question please?
> >>>
> >>> An elderly neighbour has had her TT router replaced. She had a
> >>> Huawei HG633 which has been replaced with a HG635, but both
> >>> exhibit the same problem - or at least perceived problem.
> >>>

snip

> That is where Zen is good. If you tell them you have done

sn> something

> they accept it. Also their support staff are in Sheffield and speak
> English.
>
>

I agree. Zen are superbly helpful. I recently began suffering from
late-night massive slowdown, and with a few e-mail messages back and
forth, they had analysed when the problem occurred, and suggested some
possible reasons. They primed me with some tests, some of which I did,
some of which were to be done if needed, and were ready to call
Outreach if there was no improvement, with the usual £130 caveat. I was
well informed at all times. The problem went away, as they said,
possibly because their line testing may have fixed a bad connection
somewhere.

I have only praise for them as an ISP.

--
Davey.

[Mark Carver]

On 22/09/2018 22:08, Old Codger wrote:

> That is where Zen is good.  If you tell them you have done something
> they accept it.  Also their support staff are in Sheffield and speak
> English.

Zen are in Rochdale, it's Plusnet who are Sheffield (But your point is
100% valid)


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

[DrTeeth]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 22:56:22 +0100, just as I was about to take a
herb, Woody <harro...@ntlworld.com> disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>OK, a long story for which I apologise, but at least it shows it pays to
>complain where it hurts sometimes!

The main reason I have a hosting account with which I can use any
number of domains is that I have found it very "helpful", when dealing
with intransigent retailers, to have a domain like "talk-talk.are
rubbish.co.uk", much up a site and promise to make it live unless they
give proper service. That technique has a 100% success rate.
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter". - Winston Churchill

[Graham.]

>On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 22:56:22 +0100, just as I was about to take a
>herb, Woody <harro...@ntlworld.com> disturbed my reverie and wrote:
>
>>OK, a long story for which I apologise, but at least it shows it pays to
>>complain where it hurts sometimes!
>
>The main reason I have a hosting account with which I can use any
>number of domains is that I have found it very "helpful", when dealing
>with intransigent retailers, to have a domain like "talk-talk.are
>rubbish.co.uk", much up a site and promise to make it live unless they
>give proper service. That technique has a 100% success rate.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Graham.]

>On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 22:56:22 +0100, just as I was about to take a
>herb, Woody <harro...@ntlworld.com> disturbed my reverie and wrote:
>
>>OK, a long story for which I apologise, but at least it shows it pays to
>>complain where it hurts sometimes!
>
>The main reason I have a hosting account with which I can use any
>number of domains is that I have found it very "helpful", when dealing
>with intransigent retailers, to have a domain like "talk-talk.are
>rubbish.co.uk", much up a site and promise to make it live unless they
>give proper service. That technique has a 100% success rate.

For that example to work you would have to register rubbish.co.uk

shit.co.uk seems free, crap.co.uk has someone sitting on it.

For ad hoc emails where content security isn't an option I use
anythin...@yopmail.com
Nothing to set up or log in to, very useful. Occasionally blacklisted,
but so are gmail hotmail and yahoo sometimes.


--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Bob Eager]

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 18:51:00 +0100, Graham. wrote:

>>On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 22:56:22 +0100, just as I was about to take a herb,
>>Woody <harro...@ntlworld.com> disturbed my reverie and wrote:
>>
>>>OK, a long story for which I apologise, but at least it shows it pays
>>>to complain where it hurts sometimes!
>>
>>The main reason I have a hosting account with which I can use any number
>>of domains is that I have found it very "helpful", when dealing with
>>intransigent retailers, to have a domain like "talk-talk.are
>>rubbish.co.uk", much up a site and promise to make it live unless they
>>give proper service. That technique has a 100% success rate.
>
>
> For that example to work you would have to register rubbish.co.uk
>
> shit.co.uk seems free, crap.co.uk has someone sitting on it.

At a price, you can get a .sucks domain!

[Old Codger]

On 23/09/2018 15:42, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 22/09/2018 22:08, Old Codger wrote:
>
>> That is where Zen is good.  If you tell them you have done something
>> they accept it.  Also their support staff are in Sheffield and speak
>> English.
>
> Zen are in Rochdale, it's Plusnet who are Sheffield (But your point is
> 100% valid)

Oops, should have got that right. I knew they were oop north though.

I moved from Plusnet to Zen and found them, noticeably better. This was
some time ago so perhaps Plusnet have improved since then.




--

[Mark Carver]

On 23/09/2018 20:15, Old Codger wrote:
> On 23/09/2018 15:42, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 22/09/2018 22:08, Old Codger wrote:
>>
>>> That is where Zen is good.  If you tell them you have done something
>>> they accept it.  Also their support staff are in Sheffield and speak
>>> English.
>>
>> Zen are in Rochdale, it's Plusnet who are Sheffield (But your point is
>> 100% valid)
>
> Oops, should have got that right.  I knew they were oop north though.
>
> I moved from Plusnet to Zen and found them, noticeably better.  This was
> some time ago so perhaps Plusnet have improved since then.

Forget trying to ring PlusNet these days, but if you make contact with
one of their support staff through their community forum, you get first
class service.

[Tim+]

Woody <harro...@ntlworld.com> Wrote in message:

Any update?

Tim


--

[Woody]

So far so good. TT were supposed to visit at lunchtime today but the
tech called late afternoon and asked if is still working (yes) so he
will call again Friday. I suspect that the ADSL timeout (as mentioned by
someone else) has been switched off remotely so the router now sends the
'keep alive' messages and the router stays on line. (The timer is set to
1800 seconds; I said in my earlier post that I thought the Internet LED
went red after about half an hour - good guess that!)

This of course could be a TT whizz to reduce data from routers that are
not actually in use so leaving more capacity for others. However they
have possibly overlooked the fact that (maybe) when the router goes off
line or some time after the wireless goes to sleep, and as there is no
wired equipment to kick it the only option is to power cycle it to bring
it back to life.

I will report again on Friday (if someone reminds me!)

[Martin Brown]

On 21/09/2018 22:56, Woody wrote:

Do they have a chatbot mode? I find that much less stressful than
dealing with a moronic script reading cretin who barely speaks English
on a minimum bitrate phone line from half way round the world. Also you
can retain a copy of the transcript in case you need to escalate.
(looks like you have done pretty well in that respect anyway)

You get what you pay for and TT customer support is the pits. I have to
say that despite its bad reputation EE have always been OK with me but
then I never need hand holding and I am invariably reporting a genuine
hardware fault.

>
> Here is the bit that might be of interest to readers. I went home and
> did a quick Google for the CEO of TT: up popped a site that gave her
> name, her direct email address, and her location so I shot off a polite
> but firm email to her complaining of the problem and about the rudeness
> of her staff. (It's not Dido Harding any more by the way.)
> The next morning (Tuesday) the lady got a call from the Chief Execs
> Office Complaints Manager. The lady excused herself as she had visitors
> so the CEO-CM said she would ring back at 14:00 which she did and I took
> the call (after the usual security etc.) She was very apologetic for the
> way we had both been treated and said she would have a new modem sent
> out that day and would call back to ensure all was well, and that the
> agents concerned would be 'retrained' if necessary. True enough the
> modem arrived the next morning (HG635 this time) and I fitted it
> yesterday. Wa hey, it worked - except that the Internet LED went red
> after about a half hour - and this was 100% repeatable both on the new
> router and the old one (I had not noticed it on the old one probably as
> I didn't have it powered up for long enough.)
> I fired off another email to the CEO-CM last night to which she replied
> this morning, said she would pass the fault to the Manchester tech team
> and even if the fault was on the premises and not of their doing as a
> goodwill gesture she would ensure there would be no charge if an
> engineer visited. Such an engineer is visiting Monday lunchtime. He did
> however ring this morning and said that the LED will go red if the modem
> was not used - which I too think is a load of blx.

So when it goes red is the internet line actually down?

> Interestingly another old boy down the road had similar problems with PO
> Broadband (TT in disguise) a couple of years ago. I leant him a totally
> different modem which cured the problem for as long as he used it but he
> went back to the old modem (actually his second) and it fell over again.
> He ended up being sent four identical modems before the fault
> mysteriously cleared and has never returned.
>
> OK, a long story for which I apologise, but at least it shows it pays to
> complain where it hurts sometimes!
>
> I will report back after the visit on Monday which I will attend.

Hope it works out. Usually they do a TDR test on the physical line and
if it is showing anything wrong call in OpenReach.


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Old Codger]

You get first class service from Zen however you contact them, but it is
rare to need to contact them.

[Davey]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 21:51:13 +0100
Old Codger <oldc...@antieuro.com> wrote:

> On 23/09/2018 21:07, Mark Carver wrote:
> > On 23/09/2018 20:15, Old Codger wrote:
> >> On 23/09/2018 15:42, Mark Carver wrote:
> >>> On 22/09/2018 22:08, Old Codger wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> That is where Zen is good.  If you tell them you have done
> >>>> something they accept it.  Also their support staff are in
> >>>> Sheffield and speak English.
> >>>
> >>> Zen are in Rochdale, it's Plusnet who are Sheffield (But your
> >>> point is 100% valid)
> >>
> >> Oops, should have got that right.  I knew they were oop north
> >> though.
> >>
> >> I moved from Plusnet to Zen and found them, noticeably better.
> >> This was some time ago so perhaps Plusnet have improved since
> >> then.
> >
> > Forget trying to ring PlusNet these days, but if you make contact
> > with one of their support staff through their community forum, you
> > get first class service.
>
> You get first class service from Zen however you contact them, but it
> is rare to need to contact them.
>
>
>
>

I had to contact them recently, and the service was indeed first class.

--
Davey.

[Mark Carver]

On 25/09/2018 21:51, Old Codger wrote:
> On 23/09/2018 21:07, Mark Carver wrote:

>>>
>>> I moved from Plusnet to Zen and found them, noticeably better.  This
>>> was some time ago so perhaps Plusnet have improved since then.
>>
>> Forget trying to ring PlusNet these days, but if you make contact with
>> one of their support staff through their community forum, you get
>> first class service.
>
> You get first class service from Zen however you contact them, but it is
> rare to need to contact them.

Indeed, I know, but it's not a level playing field, they are more
expensive than PN, so you pays yer money, .......

[DrTeeth]

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 18:51:00 +0100, just as I was about to take a
herb, Graham. <graham...@mail.com> disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>For that example to work you would have to register rubbish.co.uk

Actually no. I register the whole domain (which is the whole point)
and put the site online. I then notify the other party that
www.talk-talk-is-rubbish.co.uk is live with my story and that I am
willing to put the URL in all my NG and email sigs.

[Old Codger]

On 26/09/2018 08:04, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 25/09/2018 21:51, Old Codger wrote:
>> On 23/09/2018 21:07, Mark Carver wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> I moved from Plusnet to Zen and found them, noticeably better.  This
>>>> was some time ago so perhaps Plusnet have improved since then.
>>>
>>> Forget trying to ring PlusNet these days, but if you make contact
>>> with one of their support staff through their community forum, you
>>> get first class service.
>>
>> You get first class service from Zen however you contact them, but it
>> is rare to need to contact them.
>
> Indeed, I know, but it's not a level playing field, they are more
> expensive than PN, so you pays yer money, .......

Indeed, but IMHO well worth the extra