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Re: Unbelievable pain upgrading Vodafone copper to fibre
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Graham J
Aug 23, 2023, 1:10:59 PM8/23/23
to
Postman Pat wrote:
> Just spent about 5 hours on this
[snip tale of woe]
Use Zen Internet. Order FTTP at £35 per month. Comes with static IP.
You will get an ONT with an RJ45 connector, installed by Openreach or
their subcontractor - so no analog phone capability. But you can use
your own router.
Zen will send you one of their Fritzboxes for free - but you don't have
to use it - if you need the facilities of the Draytek 2955 the Fritzbox
is a waste of time.
Wait until it is installed and working.
Use Voipfone for your voice calls. Create an account. Port your
existing landline number into Voipfone. This will automatically cancel
any existing FTTC service.
I did this: it was very straightforward. Voipfone are easy to use and
communicate with. You will need either a VoIP phone or an ATA to work
with their service.
If you are anywhere near Thetford in Norfolk I can help you set this up.
--
Graham J
> Just spent about 5 hours on this
[snip tale of woe]
Use Zen Internet. Order FTTP at £35 per month. Comes with static IP.
You will get an ONT with an RJ45 connector, installed by Openreach or
their subcontractor - so no analog phone capability. But you can use
your own router.
Zen will send you one of their Fritzboxes for free - but you don't have
to use it - if you need the facilities of the Draytek 2955 the Fritzbox
is a waste of time.
Wait until it is installed and working.
Use Voipfone for your voice calls. Create an account. Port your
existing landline number into Voipfone. This will automatically cancel
any existing FTTC service.
I did this: it was very straightforward. Voipfone are easy to use and
communicate with. You will need either a VoIP phone or an ATA to work
with their service.
If you are anywhere near Thetford in Norfolk I can help you set this up.
--
Graham J
Graham J
Aug 23, 2023, 2:24:01 PM8/23/23
to
Peter wrote:
>
> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote
>
> I don't want VOIP. I have a 3-8 PBX at home which just works and keeps
> working.
[snip]
You difficulty is that I don't think there is any such thing as an ONT
with an analog phone socket any more. Everybody who supplies "Digital
Voice" does so using their own proprietary router - e.g. the Fritzbox
from Zen. Or as explained in the email from Vodafone that you quoted.
If you port your phone number to Voipfone and use an ATA you can connect
that to your PBX.
If your PBX handles multiple simultaneous incoming and outgoing calls
then you need to re-think everything. If your PBX has a VoIP input then
use it.
--
Graham J
>
> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote
>
>> Use Zen Internet. Order FTTP at £35 per month. Comes with static IP.
>> You will get an ONT with an RJ45 connector, installed by Openreach or
>> their subcontractor - so no analog phone capability. But you can use
>> your own router.
>
> I would rather die than to do that.
>> Use Zen Internet. Order FTTP at £35 per month. Comes with static IP.
>> You will get an ONT with an RJ45 connector, installed by Openreach or
>> their subcontractor - so no analog phone capability. But you can use
>> your own router.
>
>
> I don't want VOIP. I have a 3-8 PBX at home which just works and keeps
> working.
[snip]
You difficulty is that I don't think there is any such thing as an ONT
with an analog phone socket any more. Everybody who supplies "Digital
Voice" does so using their own proprietary router - e.g. the Fritzbox
from Zen. Or as explained in the email from Vodafone that you quoted.
If you port your phone number to Voipfone and use an ATA you can connect
that to your PBX.
If your PBX handles multiple simultaneous incoming and outgoing calls
then you need to re-think everything. If your PBX has a VoIP input then
use it.
--
Graham J
Theo
Aug 23, 2023, 2:35:35 PM8/23/23
to
Postman Pat <a...@the-post-office-not.com> wrote:
> They can't say how it will terminate. I want a box with an RJ45 for
> the WAN and a BT socket for an analog phone. I have one of these
> already at work with Andrews & Arnold but A&A are expensive for home
> fibre (actually we have VOIP via A&A, not POTS, and the A&A VOIP was
> extremely painful to get working so I am not doing that again).
If this is Openreach FTTP, not Cityfibre, you should get an ONT box on the
wall. That presents Ethernet and uses PPPoE. You plugin a router to that.
Most ISPs don't let you use your own ATA so you lose voice service if you
switch out their router, but it sounds like VF allow that:
https://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/Other-broadband-queries/VOIP-SIP-Settings/td-p/2730610
https://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/Landline/Landline-phone-with-own-router-on-FTTP/m-p/2709457#M1354
https://github.com/clayface/VF-UK-Asterisk-config
People are saying it only works with Grandstream devices. I think I would
read the whole of the second thread (all 25 pages) to be clear of the
current situation.
> They say we will get a Voda router. I said I use my own router
> (Draytek 2955, FYI) and just need the login credentials for that. The
> RJ45 cable goes straight from the BT box to the router WAN socket.
> This is standard stuff. In fact with A&A the router config was same
> from copper to fibre. But Voda are clueless.
Since there's an existence proof of somebody doing it, I suggest reading
that forum to find out how to set up your own router.
> If the Openreach guy turns up and I cannot get my own router set up, I
> will cancel the installation but hopefully the ADSL+analog will be
> retained.
I expect it to take potentially more fiddling than the OR guy has time for,
and to even begin fiddling your installation will be complete. So not
convinced you will be able to reject it at that stage.
It is a good idea to run them in parallel for a bit, so if there's an issue
you still have DSL to fall back to. I don't know if VF are set up to allow
that.
> Can anyone offer any suggestions here to retain my sanity? :)
Read the VF forum to understand the current situation, since they have
direct experience of it.
Theo
> They can't say how it will terminate. I want a box with an RJ45 for
> the WAN and a BT socket for an analog phone. I have one of these
> already at work with Andrews & Arnold but A&A are expensive for home
> fibre (actually we have VOIP via A&A, not POTS, and the A&A VOIP was
> extremely painful to get working so I am not doing that again).
If this is Openreach FTTP, not Cityfibre, you should get an ONT box on the
wall. That presents Ethernet and uses PPPoE. You plugin a router to that.
Most ISPs don't let you use your own ATA so you lose voice service if you
switch out their router, but it sounds like VF allow that:
https://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/Other-broadband-queries/VOIP-SIP-Settings/td-p/2730610
https://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/Landline/Landline-phone-with-own-router-on-FTTP/m-p/2709457#M1354
https://github.com/clayface/VF-UK-Asterisk-config
People are saying it only works with Grandstream devices. I think I would
read the whole of the second thread (all 25 pages) to be clear of the
current situation.
> They say we will get a Voda router. I said I use my own router
> (Draytek 2955, FYI) and just need the login credentials for that. The
> RJ45 cable goes straight from the BT box to the router WAN socket.
> This is standard stuff. In fact with A&A the router config was same
> from copper to fibre. But Voda are clueless.
Since there's an existence proof of somebody doing it, I suggest reading
that forum to find out how to set up your own router.
> If the Openreach guy turns up and I cannot get my own router set up, I
> will cancel the installation but hopefully the ADSL+analog will be
> retained.
I expect it to take potentially more fiddling than the OR guy has time for,
and to even begin fiddling your installation will be complete. So not
convinced you will be able to reject it at that stage.
It is a good idea to run them in parallel for a bit, so if there's an issue
you still have DSL to fall back to. I don't know if VF are set up to allow
that.
> Can anyone offer any suggestions here to retain my sanity? :)
Read the VF forum to understand the current situation, since they have
direct experience of it.
Theo
Theo
Aug 23, 2023, 2:46:35 PM8/23/23
to
> >Use Zen Internet. Order FTTP at £35 per month. Comes with static IP.
> >You will get an ONT with an RJ45 connector, installed by Openreach or
> >their subcontractor - so no analog phone capability. But you can use
> >your own router.
>
> >You will get an ONT with an RJ45 connector, installed by Openreach or
> >their subcontractor - so no analog phone capability. But you can use
> >your own router.
>
> I would rather die than to do that.
>
> I don't want VOIP. I have a 3-8 PBX at home which just works and keeps
> working.
So what do you want phone-wise? There is/will be no analogue voice any
>
> I don't want VOIP. I have a 3-8 PBX at home which just works and keeps
> working.
more. You either use VF's VOIP service or you use a third party VOIP
service, but you can't avoid VOIP if you care about phone service.
If VF won't give you analogue phone (highly likely, since you aren't paying
copper 'line rental' any more) then it's VOIP or nothing.
You can present that VOIP to an analogue phone socket if you want, but it's
still VOIP.
> One Q is whether anybody knows whether the BT guy will be able to give
> me the login creds for the router PPPOE interface.
That's not how it works. Openreach provide the hardware, OR route VF's PPP
connection to your ONT, your router logs into that PPPoE session. All the
login side of things is VF, not OR. OR are just a subcontractor to VF here,
so they aren't providing you with an internet connection, VF are.
> They *should* be the same as the existing Voda service over copper. Voda
> are doing this as an UPGRADE now NEW, to preserve the landline number.
> Keeping the existing router is key, for VPNs etc.
Effectivelly all you're changing from OR delivering a PPPoA (ADSL) or PPPoE
(VDSL) session to the phone socket on your wall, to delivering it on the
ethernet port of your ONT. Everything else from here on up is VF's
territory.
Whether VF choose to just switch your route from your DSL line to your FTTP
line, and keep the rest the same, or have more provisioning changes, is up
to them.
Theo
Graham J
Aug 23, 2023, 3:30:19 PM8/23/23
to
Peter wrote:
[snip]
>
> Maybe an option is to get an internet-POTS adaptor, from some VOIP
> provider, and transfer my landline # to them, as a separate (and
> prior) exercise to the main job. But then I will be paying money all
> the time, whereas Voda have that number already for no extra cost.
> Maybe I misunderstand...
>
I suggest - as per my earlier post - that you get FTTP from a reputable
supplier FIRST.
Then set up an account with Voipfone.
Then port your existing landline number to Voipfone, which will cancel
your existing internet connection with Voda.
Costs:
= FTTP @ £35 / month from Zen - may be more than Voda but you know it
makes sense.
= Landline port into Voipfone £24 one off, plus £3.60 per month rental.
= Call charges nominally 1p/minute.
= ATA for connection to your PBX about £60. Voipfone will configure it
for you.
My experience with Voipfone is with the SNOM 300 phones - and these have
been very easy to set up. Not sure why A&A made it so difficult for you.
--
Graham J
[snip]
>
> Maybe an option is to get an internet-POTS adaptor, from some VOIP
> provider, and transfer my landline # to them, as a separate (and
> prior) exercise to the main job. But then I will be paying money all
> the time, whereas Voda have that number already for no extra cost.
> Maybe I misunderstand...
>
I suggest - as per my earlier post - that you get FTTP from a reputable
supplier FIRST.
Then set up an account with Voipfone.
Then port your existing landline number to Voipfone, which will cancel
your existing internet connection with Voda.
Costs:
= FTTP @ £35 / month from Zen - may be more than Voda but you know it
makes sense.
= Landline port into Voipfone £24 one off, plus £3.60 per month rental.
= Call charges nominally 1p/minute.
= ATA for connection to your PBX about £60. Voipfone will configure it
for you.
My experience with Voipfone is with the SNOM 300 phones - and these have
been very easy to set up. Not sure why A&A made it so difficult for you.
--
Graham J
David Wade
Aug 23, 2023, 5:53:43 PM8/23/23
to
>> Use Zen Internet. Order FTTP at £35 per month. Comes with static IP.
>> You will get an ONT with an RJ45 connector, installed by Openreach or
>> their subcontractor - so no analog phone capability. But you can use
>> your own router.
>
>> You will get an ONT with an RJ45 connector, installed by Openreach or
>> their subcontractor - so no analog phone capability. But you can use
>> your own router.
>
> I would rather die than to do that.
>
I am pretty sure that is what you have ordered.
>
https://support.vodafone.co.uk/Broadband/Set-up-getting-started-Home-Broadband-/1829588002/How-to-set-up-my-home-phone.htm
If you want to retain a POTS line you need to cancel the fibre install
and migration but soon you have no choice, well unless you actually die
first.
> I don't want VOIP. I have a 3-8 PBX at home which just works and keeps
> working.
>
you plug the PBX
> One Q is whether anybody knows whether the BT guy will be able to give
> the same as the existing Voda service over copper. Voda are doing this
> as an UPGRADE now NEW, to preserve the landline number. Keeping the
> existing router is key, for VPNs etc.
>
They can give you those credentials BUT not the VOIP credentials. If you
> as an UPGRADE now NEW, to preserve the landline number. Keeping the
> existing router is key, for VPNs etc.
>
don't use their router you won't get a phone service.
https://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/Landline/Landline-phone-with-own-router-on-FTTP/td-p/2709457
> Voda is £25/m for 75mbps.
sometimes you get what you pay for.
>
> A&A is about 40/m and we went to them at work only because they did a
> 3G backup (lots of losses of connectivity out in the sticks) and while
> that works it has become misconfigured and the IPs no longer get
> transferred to it, so it works only for outgoing connections (they
> can't fix it).
Thats your choice, but you won't get you want from vodafone.
I took out a new FTTP service with ZEN so my voice and FTTC service
remained in place. The ZEN router was set to forward all packets to my
Draytek router. After updating the DNS to the new IP the VPNs that
connect in still work.
I then ported my phone number to voipfone. This cancelled my old FTTC
service. The ZEN router is open enough to let me configure the voipfone
connection in that. I then plugged my phone system into the ZEN router
via the supplied BT socket that goes into the RJ11 on the router...
I did a lot of research on here BEFORE ordering. I wonder why you didn't
any only asked after you had placed the order..
Dave
David Wade
Aug 23, 2023, 6:00:24 PM8/23/23
to
On 23/08/2023 17:47, Postman Pat wrote:
> Just spent about 5 hours on this
>
> 3hrs on a monkey chat line call centre
> Just spent about 5 hours on this
>
> 2hrs on a monkey voice call centre
>
> Managed to order their 75mbps fibre plan for home.
>
> They can retain the landline number (essential). This took hours to
> sort out, via some chinese-speaking call centre, one clueless moron
> after another.
>
> They say they can't (probably) retain my fixed IP (not life or death;
> I can reconfig a load of stuff)
>
> They can't say how it will terminate. I want a box with an RJ45 for
> the WAN and a BT socket for an analog phone. I have one of these
> already at work with Andrews & Arnold but A&A are expensive for home
> fibre (actually we have VOIP via A&A, not POTS, and the A&A VOIP was
> extremely painful to get working so I am not doing that again).
>
> They can't say how it will terminate. I want a box with an RJ45 for
> the WAN and a BT socket for an analog phone. I have one of these
> already at work with Andrews & Arnold but A&A are expensive for home
> fibre (actually we have VOIP via A&A, not POTS, and the A&A VOIP was
> extremely painful to get working so I am not doing that again).
>
> They say we will get a Voda router. I said I use my own router
> (Draytek 2955, FYI) and just need the login credentials for that. The
> RJ45 cable goes straight from the BT box to the router WAN socket.
> This is standard stuff. In fact with A&A the router config was same
> from copper to fibre. But Voda are clueless.
>
> (Draytek 2955, FYI) and just need the login credentials for that. The
> RJ45 cable goes straight from the BT box to the router WAN socket.
> This is standard stuff. In fact with A&A the router config was same
> from copper to fibre. But Voda are clueless.
>
> If the Openreach guy turns up and I cannot get my own router set up, I
> will cancel the installation but hopefully the ADSL+analog will be
> retained.
you should be able to do this by using the VF router a setting up what
> will cancel the installation but hopefully the ADSL+analog will be
> retained.
the usually call a DMZ
>
> At the end of this I was ready to top myself.
Tim+
Aug 23, 2023, 6:27:17 PM8/23/23
to
Peter <occassional...@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
> I was with ZEN for many years and left them because they moved to
> script monkey call centres. VF use these anyway but the difference is
> that with VF one never needed support.
>
Are you *sure* it was Zen? Your experience seems to be at complete odds
with most other folks’ experiences (including my own).
Virgin have been a disaster for my Daughter. Expensive and unreliable.
When we were with Virgin “customer support” consisted of them wasting as
much of my time as possible to talk me out of not leaving.
Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
> I was with ZEN for many years and left them because they moved to
> script monkey call centres. VF use these anyway but the difference is
> that with VF one never needed support.
>
Are you *sure* it was Zen? Your experience seems to be at complete odds
with most other folks’ experiences (including my own).
Virgin have been a disaster for my Daughter. Expensive and unreliable.
When we were with Virgin “customer support” consisted of them wasting as
much of my time as possible to talk me out of not leaving.
Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
David Wade
Aug 23, 2023, 7:02:43 PM8/23/23
to
> Tim
Dave
Jeff Gaines
Aug 24, 2023, 3:17:26 AM8/24/23
to
On 24/08/2023 in message <uc6sb3$3bu8v$1...@dont-email.me> Peter wrote:
>What stops me porting my number now to some VOIP service and running
>it on my current ADSL?
I'd be interested to know if that is practical. Fibre is being laid in my
village at the moment and will go live over the next few months but that
is Internet only. I looked at Andrews & Arnold for VOIP and they do it but
there is a monthly fee plus per call fees and it looks as if it would be
expensive.
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who do binary and those
who don't.
>What stops me porting my number now to some VOIP service and running
>it on my current ADSL?
I'd be interested to know if that is practical. Fibre is being laid in my
village at the moment and will go live over the next few months but that
is Internet only. I looked at Andrews & Arnold for VOIP and they do it but
there is a monthly fee plus per call fees and it looks as if it would be
expensive.
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who do binary and those
who don't.
Roderick Stewart
Aug 24, 2023, 3:22:58 AM8/24/23
to
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 21:35:12 +0100, Peter
to contact their tech support but on every occasion I've encountered
agents who speak English and understand my descrption of the problem.
Rod.
<occassional...@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
>I was with ZEN for many years and left them because they moved to
>script monkey call centres.
Really? That's not my experience at all. I've only very rarely needed
>I was with ZEN for many years and left them because they moved to
>script monkey call centres.
to contact their tech support but on every occasion I've encountered
agents who speak English and understand my descrption of the problem.
Rod.
Ken
Aug 24, 2023, 4:03:52 AM8/24/23
to
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 21:35:12 +0100, Peter
>use VF for the internet (I "just" need to get the PPPOE login)?
always get a knowledgeable and helpful answer, no matter how obscure
my question.
>>I suggest - as per my earlier post - that you get FTTP from a reputable
>>supplier FIRST.
>>
>>Then set up an account with Voipfone.
>>
>>Then port your existing landline number to Voipfone, which will cancel
>>your existing internet connection with Voda.
>
>OK but if you propose decoupling the ISP from the VOIP server, why not
>>supplier FIRST.
>>
>>Then set up an account with Voipfone.
>>
>>Then port your existing landline number to Voipfone, which will cancel
>>your existing internet connection with Voda.
>
>use VF for the internet (I "just" need to get the PPPOE login)?
>
>I was with ZEN for many years and left them because they moved to
>I was with ZEN for many years and left them because they moved to
>script monkey call centres. VF use these anyway but the difference is
>that with VF one never needed support.
You sure about Zen? I place calls with Zen about once a month, and
>that with VF one never needed support.
always get a knowledgeable and helpful answer, no matter how obscure
my question.
Ken
Aug 24, 2023, 4:04:51 AM8/24/23
to
>Rod.
David Wade
Aug 24, 2023, 4:12:06 AM8/24/23
to
On 24/08/2023 07:11, Peter wrote:
>
> David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid> wrote
>
> What stops me porting my number *now* to some VOIP service and running
don't believe so.
Your current ADSL service relies in the phone line. When you port the
number they will cease the ADSL. You should be able port it at any time
after. OFCOM says number portability will to continue after the move to
VOIP, but then you will need to provide VOIP hardware/adaptor.
>>> Voda is £25/m for 75mbps.
>>
>> sometimes you get what you pay for.
>
> Voda have been excellent. Zero downtime over 10 years. Customer
> service (I have some phone SIMs, for which Voda is the very best for
> European travel) is good.
>
Yet you started by ranting about there call centre staff.
>> I did a lot of research on here BEFORE ordering. I wonder why you didn't
>> any only asked after you had placed the order..
>
> I didn't think it would be difficult, especially as Voda said they can
> do the "box" with the WAN and POTS sockets on it.
>
Remember you were speaking to a sales droid. They are tasked with
selling VFs standard service. You get an ONT into which you plug the
router. The router has Ethernet and Phone sockets. Sounds like it will
do what you want. I'll just say yes and I can get on with the next call.
Well seeing as you no longer have POTS that will be challenging. I think
some of the issue here is you are asking for POTS and on FTTP there is
no such thing as POTS on FTTP. There may be a standard BT socket as on
my Zen router, but POTS it isn't as unplugging its PSU reveals.
I am pretty sure what you will receive is a standard VF Router.
> I have such a box on the wall at work, A&A. The POTS socket is not
> used but clearly the BT OR product exists.
Its not a POTS socket, its a BT socket on a VOIP adaptor. Unless you
have battery backup it won't work in a power cut. While the product
existed, I am not sure its still being delivered. If you check its
probably a Huawei and I think BT is now using Nokia kit. Something about
the Chinese government...
Reports on here suggest when asked for a POTS line on a fibre only
exchange BT now deliver a standard ONT + BT router but this may vary
from area to area.
I think you may be able to set the VF router into a modem mode where the
WAN interface is copied to the VF router Ethernet ports and you can plug
your phone service into its BT socket, but ITS NOT POTS.
Dave
>
> David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid> wrote
>
>> They can give you those credentials BUT not the VOIP credentials. If you
>> don't use their router you won't get a phone service.
>
> Right, so I can get internet working, but no phone.
>> They can give you those credentials BUT not the VOIP credentials. If you
>> don't use their router you won't get a phone service.
>
>
> What stops me porting my number *now* to some VOIP service and running
> it on my current ADSL?
>
Well of course they "may" deliver what you think you asked for but I
>
don't believe so.
Your current ADSL service relies in the phone line. When you port the
number they will cease the ADSL. You should be able port it at any time
after. OFCOM says number portability will to continue after the move to
VOIP, but then you will need to provide VOIP hardware/adaptor.
>>> Voda is £25/m for 75mbps.
>>
>> sometimes you get what you pay for.
>
> service (I have some phone SIMs, for which Voda is the very best for
> European travel) is good.
>
Yet you started by ranting about there call centre staff.
>> I did a lot of research on here BEFORE ordering. I wonder why you didn't
>> any only asked after you had placed the order..
>
> do the "box" with the WAN and POTS sockets on it.
>
Remember you were speaking to a sales droid. They are tasked with
selling VFs standard service. You get an ONT into which you plug the
router. The router has Ethernet and Phone sockets. Sounds like it will
do what you want. I'll just say yes and I can get on with the next call.
Well seeing as you no longer have POTS that will be challenging. I think
some of the issue here is you are asking for POTS and on FTTP there is
no such thing as POTS on FTTP. There may be a standard BT socket as on
my Zen router, but POTS it isn't as unplugging its PSU reveals.
I am pretty sure what you will receive is a standard VF Router.
> I have such a box on the wall at work, A&A. The POTS socket is not
> used but clearly the BT OR product exists.
Its not a POTS socket, its a BT socket on a VOIP adaptor. Unless you
have battery backup it won't work in a power cut. While the product
existed, I am not sure its still being delivered. If you check its
probably a Huawei and I think BT is now using Nokia kit. Something about
the Chinese government...
Reports on here suggest when asked for a POTS line on a fibre only
exchange BT now deliver a standard ONT + BT router but this may vary
from area to area.
I think you may be able to set the VF router into a modem mode where the
WAN interface is copied to the VF router Ethernet ports and you can plug
your phone service into its BT socket, but ITS NOT POTS.
Dave
Mark Carver
Aug 24, 2023, 4:23:16 AM8/24/23
to
On 24/08/2023 07:11, Peter wrote:
>
> What stops me porting my number *now* to some VOIP service and running
> it on my current ADSL?
>
Because of the way Openreach provision ADSL and FTTC services, by using
>
> What stops me porting my number *now* to some VOIP service and running
> it on my current ADSL?
>
your 'landline' phone number, any attempt to port that number away, will
lead to the ADSL or FTTC service being ceased too.
I gather, you can now port your landline number away in the 30 days
following the cessation of an ADSL or FTTC connection.
In other words, apply to port the landline number immediately (but not
before) you have an FTTP connection up and running.
Obviously your number will be unobtainable for a few days, while the
port procedure is applied
Graham J
Aug 24, 2023, 4:31:43 AM8/24/23
to
Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 24/08/2023 in message <uc6sb3$3bu8v$1...@dont-email.me> Peter wrote:
>
>> What stops me porting my number now to some VOIP service and running
>> it on my current ADSL?
>
> I'd be interested to know if that is practical. Fibre is being laid in
> my village at the moment and will go live over the next few months but
> that is Internet only. I looked at Andrews & Arnold for VOIP and they do
> it but there is a monthly fee plus per call fees and it looks as if it
> would be expensive.
It depends on how reliable your ADSL is. Personally I would not
> On 24/08/2023 in message <uc6sb3$3bu8v$1...@dont-email.me> Peter wrote:
>
>> What stops me porting my number now to some VOIP service and running
>> it on my current ADSL?
>
> I'd be interested to know if that is practical. Fibre is being laid in
> my village at the moment and will go live over the next few months but
> that is Internet only. I looked at Andrews & Arnold for VOIP and they do
> it but there is a monthly fee plus per call fees and it looks as if it
> would be expensive.
recommend it - ADSL is generally not reliable enough. FTTC might be,
but my green cabinet was 1.1km away and the FTTC service never stayed up
for more than a couple of days. The one-minute connection break for a
re-sync is not a problem for internet browsing, but certainly would be
for VoIP.
Since getting FTTP I've used Voipfone. Monthly fee for porting-in a
number is £3.60, and call charges nominally 1p per minute. So it
compares favourably with the phone call component of a traditional
landline with broadband.
--
Graham J
Graham J
Aug 24, 2023, 4:35:00 AM8/24/23
to
Peter wrote:
>
> "Jeff Gaines" <jgne...@outlook.com> wrote
> in your router. IIRC, up in the 5000 range (VOIP UDP ports etc) and I
> don't like doing that because these get instantly port sniffed by the
> chinks and they attack them. One fix is to firewall them to accept
> traffic only from the VOIP provider, and hope he never changes them ;)
[snip]
I use Voipfone with a Vigor 2860 router. It all "just works" - no
special configuration needed in the router.
--
Graham J
>
> "Jeff Gaines" <jgne...@outlook.com> wrote
>
>> On 24/08/2023 in message <uc6sb3$3bu8v$1...@dont-email.me> Peter wrote:
>>
>>> What stops me porting my number now to some VOIP service and running
>>> it on my current ADSL?
>>
>> I'd be interested to know if that is practical.
>
> It should be. The gotcha is that for VOIP you have to open some ports
>> On 24/08/2023 in message <uc6sb3$3bu8v$1...@dont-email.me> Peter wrote:
>>
>>> What stops me porting my number now to some VOIP service and running
>>> it on my current ADSL?
>>
>> I'd be interested to know if that is practical.
>
> in your router. IIRC, up in the 5000 range (VOIP UDP ports etc) and I
> don't like doing that because these get instantly port sniffed by the
> chinks and they attack them. One fix is to firewall them to accept
> traffic only from the VOIP provider, and hope he never changes them ;)
[snip]
I use Voipfone with a Vigor 2860 router. It all "just works" - no
special configuration needed in the router.
--
Graham J
David Wade
Aug 24, 2023, 4:50:24 AM8/24/23
to
On 24/08/2023 09:24, Peter wrote:
>
> David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid> wrote
>
>
> David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid> wrote
>
>> Your current ADSL service relies in the phone line. When you port the
>> number they will cease the ADSL. You should be able port it at any time
>> after. OFCOM says number portability will to continue after the move to
>> VOIP, but then you will need to provide VOIP hardware/adaptor.
>
> A very good point!
>> number they will cease the ADSL. You should be able port it at any time
>> after. OFCOM says number portability will to continue after the move to
>> VOIP, but then you will need to provide VOIP hardware/adaptor.
>
>
>> Remember you were speaking to a sales droid. They are tasked with
>> selling VFs standard service. You get an ONT into which you plug the
>> router. The router has Ethernet and Phone sockets. Sounds like it will
>> do what you want. I'll just say yes and I can get on with the next call.
>
> Exactly.
>> Remember you were speaking to a sales droid. They are tasked with
>> selling VFs standard service. You get an ONT into which you plug the
>> router. The router has Ethernet and Phone sockets. Sounds like it will
>> do what you want. I'll just say yes and I can get on with the next call.
>
>
>> Well seeing as you no longer have POTS that will be challenging. I think
>> some of the issue here is you are asking for POTS and on FTTP there is
>> no such thing as POTS on FTTP. There may be a standard BT socket as on
>> my Zen router, but POTS it isn't as unplugging its PSU reveals.
>
> I understand I need an adaptor, and a VOIP provider.
>> Well seeing as you no longer have POTS that will be challenging. I think
>> some of the issue here is you are asking for POTS and on FTTP there is
>> no such thing as POTS on FTTP. There may be a standard BT socket as on
>> my Zen router, but POTS it isn't as unplugging its PSU reveals.
>
>
>> I am pretty sure what you will receive is a standard VF Router.
>
> Yes
>> I am pretty sure what you will receive is a standard VF Router.
>
>
>>> I have such a box on the wall at work, A&A. The POTS socket is not
>>> used but clearly the BT OR product exists.
>>
>> Its not a POTS socket, its a BT socket on a VOIP adaptor. Unless you
>> have battery backup it won't work in a power cut.
>
> Sure; no way to send 50V via the fibre :)
>>> I have such a box on the wall at work, A&A. The POTS socket is not
>>> used but clearly the BT OR product exists.
>>
>> Its not a POTS socket, its a BT socket on a VOIP adaptor. Unless you
>> have battery backup it won't work in a power cut.
>
>
>> While the product
>> existed, I am not sure its still being delivered. If you check its
>> probably a Huawei and I think BT is now using Nokia kit. Something about
>> the Chinese government...
>
> Right. It went in 2018 or so.
>> While the product
>> existed, I am not sure its still being delivered. If you check its
>> probably a Huawei and I think BT is now using Nokia kit. Something about
>> the Chinese government...
>
>
>> Reports on here suggest when asked for a POTS line on a fibre only
>> exchange BT now deliver a standard ONT + BT router but this may vary
>>from area to area.
>
> AIUI BT deliver what the ISP told them to.
>> Reports on here suggest when asked for a POTS line on a fibre only
>> exchange BT now deliver a standard ONT + BT router but this may vary
>>from area to area.
>
Well its actually Openreach that deliver. But you can only order
"services" from OpenReach (there used to be a catalogue) not particular
items of kit. So the method of delivery may vary.
>
>> I think you may be able to set the VF router into a modem mode where the
>> WAN interface is copied to the VF router Ethernet ports and you can plug
>> your phone service into its BT socket, but ITS NOT POTS.
>
>
> Where would the PPPOE login be set up? In the VF box or in my Draytek
> 2955?
>
VF box
> Presumably in the former, to get their POTS socket to work.
>
yes
> I just need to be fairly sure this is possible i.e convert one of the
> four (?) LAN ports on the VF router into a WAN/PPPOE port.
I can't help there as I can't find a link to download the manual....
Dave
David Wade
Aug 24, 2023, 4:52:55 AM8/24/23
to
>> It depends on how reliable your ADSL is. Personally I would not
>> recommend it - ADSL is generally not reliable enough. FTTC might be,
>> but my green cabinet was 1.1km away and the FTTC service never stayed up
>> for more than a couple of days. The one-minute connection break for a
>> re-sync is not a problem for internet browsing, but certainly would be
>> for VoIP.
>
> Indeed; I would normally not do VOIP over copper ADSL. One reason
>> recommend it - ADSL is generally not reliable enough. FTTC might be,
>> but my green cabinet was 1.1km away and the FTTC service never stayed up
>> for more than a couple of days. The one-minute connection break for a
>> re-sync is not a problem for internet browsing, but certainly would be
>> for VoIP.
>
> being that BT fix analog line faults fast but take weeks (around here)
> to fix data services.
>
> So FTTP would be the only way for VOIP, in the long run.
>
>> Since getting FTTP I've used Voipfone. Monthly fee for porting-in a
>> number is £3.60, and call charges nominally 1p per minute. So it
>> compares favourably with the phone call component of a traditional
>> landline with broadband.
>
> Can they supply a "box" with a POTS socket, an RJ45 going to my LAN,
>> Since getting FTTP I've used Voipfone. Monthly fee for porting-in a
>> number is £3.60, and call charges nominally 1p per minute. So it
>> compares favourably with the phone call component of a traditional
>> landline with broadband.
>
> and I open some ports in my router for it?
They have a couple ....
https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=category&pid=2
Dave
Tweed
Aug 24, 2023, 5:27:25 AM8/24/23
to
done by Andrews and Arnold, who know what they are doing.
Mark Carver
Aug 24, 2023, 6:01:56 AM8/24/23
to
Tweed
Aug 24, 2023, 6:22:21 AM8/24/23
to
converted to wires only and billed by A&A, phone number ported to A&A VOIP.
A&A FTTC service survived the ordeal unscathed.
Graham J
Aug 24, 2023, 6:24:37 AM8/24/23
to
Peter wrote:
[snip]
>
>> Since getting FTTP I've used Voipfone. Monthly fee for porting-in a
>> number is £3.60, and call charges nominally 1p per minute. So it
>> compares favourably with the phone call component of a traditional
>> landline with broadband.
>
<https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=view&pid=140>
No need to open any router ports, in my experience with a Vigor 2860 router.
--
Graham J
[snip]
>
>> Since getting FTTP I've used Voipfone. Monthly fee for porting-in a
>> number is £3.60, and call charges nominally 1p per minute. So it
>> compares favourably with the phone call component of a traditional
>> landline with broadband.
>
> Can they supply a "box" with a POTS socket, an RJ45 going to my LAN,
> and I open some ports in my router for it?
>
Yes, see:
> and I open some ports in my router for it?
>
<https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=view&pid=140>
No need to open any router ports, in my experience with a Vigor 2860 router.
--
Graham J
Graham J
Aug 24, 2023, 6:30:01 AM8/24/23
to
Peter wrote:
>
> It is possible to do that if the phone keeps the NAT tunnel open.
SNOM 300
and Gigaset N510 IP PRO with Gigaset S700 H Pro handsets
The phones "register" with Voipfone, which presumably avoids any
problems with NAT.
--
Graham J
>
> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I use Voipfone with a Vigor 2860 router. It all "just works" - no
>> special configuration needed in the router.
>
> What phones?
> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I use Voipfone with a Vigor 2860 router. It all "just works" - no
>> special configuration needed in the router.
>
>
> It is possible to do that if the phone keeps the NAT tunnel open.
SNOM 300
and Gigaset N510 IP PRO with Gigaset S700 H Pro handsets
The phones "register" with Voipfone, which presumably avoids any
problems with NAT.
--
Graham J
Tweed
Aug 24, 2023, 6:53:18 AM8/24/23
to
> https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=view&pid=142
> and it needs port 5060 open to the internal LAN.
>
> I currently have port 5060 open in NAT, with a source IP from A&A (a
> sort of firewall) and a dest IP of the actual Snom phone. AIUI a port
> like 5060 *must* be forwarded to a given internal IP, or is that
> optional? One obviously does want to accept 5060 packets only from
> specific origin IPs otherwise half of china will be in there.
>
> So it looks like I can create another rule where 5060 is open to
> packets from Voipfone source IP(s) and a dest IP of their little box.
>
> I will get one of these and test it. It won't have my landline number
> (they come with some funny number) so I can test it.
>
> Then when Voda turn up with their stupid useless router I can chuck it
> in the bin and config the PPPOE credentials in the Draytek and
> internet "should work" but I won't have a phone. Then on the same day
> I can port the landline number to the Voipfone service.
>
> Does that sounds reasonable?
>
> I cannot believe that everybody who goes to Voda for FTTP loses their
> VPNs and everything else. It MUST be possible to use your own router.
>
You might find this helpful
https://www.draytek.co.uk/support/guides/kb-fttp-wan-setup
And yes lots of people use non VF supplied routers on the VF FTTP service.
I’ve read elsewhere that your Vigor router might not keep up if you’ve
ordered one of the faster FTTP speeds.
Graham J
Aug 24, 2023, 7:45:05 AM8/24/23
to
Peter wrote:
[snip]
> I spoke to VOIPfone re this
> https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=view&pid=142
> and it needs port 5060 open to the internal LAN.
I'm not familiar with the Grandstream device, but have previously used a
Linksys ATA, and that did not need any special configuration of the
router. Tested with a Vigor 2830 and a TP-Link TD-W8960N.
Experience with SNOM 300 and the Gigaset N510 IP PRO confirms that no
port opening is required. So I don't know why Voipfone suggest it.
> I currently have port 5060 open in NAT, with a source IP from A&A (a
> sort of firewall) and a dest IP of the actual Snom phone. AIUI a port
> like 5060 *must* be forwarded to a given internal IP, or is that
> optional? One obviously does want to accept 5060 packets only from
> specific origin IPs otherwise half of china will be in there.
This may be the way that A&A choose to implement their VoIP service.
> So it looks like I can create another rule where 5060 is open to
> packets from Voipfone source IP(s) and a dest IP of their little box.
>
> I will get one of these and test it. It won't have my landline number
> (they come with some funny number) so I can test it.
Good idea. If you order it from Voipfone they will configure it
correctly for you.
> Then when Voda turn up with their stupid useless router I can chuck it
> in the bin and config the PPPOE credentials in the Draytek and
> internet "should work" but I won't have a phone. Then on the same day
> I can port the landline number to the Voipfone service.
>
> Does that sounds reasonable?
Yes.
capability is VERY UNUSUAL.
--
Graham J
[snip]
> I spoke to VOIPfone re this
> https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=view&pid=142
> and it needs port 5060 open to the internal LAN.
Linksys ATA, and that did not need any special configuration of the
router. Tested with a Vigor 2830 and a TP-Link TD-W8960N.
Experience with SNOM 300 and the Gigaset N510 IP PRO confirms that no
port opening is required. So I don't know why Voipfone suggest it.
> I currently have port 5060 open in NAT, with a source IP from A&A (a
> sort of firewall) and a dest IP of the actual Snom phone. AIUI a port
> like 5060 *must* be forwarded to a given internal IP, or is that
> optional? One obviously does want to accept 5060 packets only from
> specific origin IPs otherwise half of china will be in there.
> So it looks like I can create another rule where 5060 is open to
> packets from Voipfone source IP(s) and a dest IP of their little box.
>
> I will get one of these and test it. It won't have my landline number
> (they come with some funny number) so I can test it.
correctly for you.
> Then when Voda turn up with their stupid useless router I can chuck it
> in the bin and config the PPPOE credentials in the Draytek and
> internet "should work" but I won't have a phone. Then on the same day
> I can port the landline number to the Voipfone service.
>
> Does that sounds reasonable?
> I cannot believe that everybody who goes to Voda for FTTP loses their
> VPNs and everything else. It MUST be possible to use your own router.
In the global scheme of things using your own router for its VPN
> VPNs and everything else. It MUST be possible to use your own router.
capability is VERY UNUSUAL.
--
Graham J
Theo
Aug 24, 2023, 9:12:38 AM8/24/23
to
Peter <nos...@nospam9876.com> wrote:
>
> >Experience with SNOM 300 and the Gigaset N510 IP PRO confirms that no
> >port opening is required. So I don't know why Voipfone suggest it.
>
> Unless you a keep-aline for the NAT tunnel, you cannot receive
>
> >Experience with SNOM 300 and the Gigaset N510 IP PRO confirms that no
> >port opening is required. So I don't know why Voipfone suggest it.
>
> incoming calls.
I think SIP clients typically do use a keepalive on their connection, for
this reason.
I'm considering a move to VF, anyone know if third party VOIP (A&A) works
out of the box on their router? I've never had an ISP where it didn't work
(worst case with some router tweaking), but just curious if anyone can
confirm.
> >In the global scheme of things using your own router for its VPN
> >capability is VERY UNUSUAL.
>
They are typically not using a consumer FTTP service, which is what we're
talking about here. You can of course have a business service and connect
your on-prem Cisco router to the end of it, but that's a different ballgame.
Theo
Theo
Aug 24, 2023, 9:15:11 AM8/24/23
to
Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Phone line rental and POTS voice was with Zen. FTTC with A&A. Phone line
> converted to wires only and billed by A&A, phone number ported to A&A VOIP.
> A&A FTTC service survived the ordeal unscathed.
SFAIK A&A's ability to extract the number out of an operating PSTN line
> Phone line rental and POTS voice was with Zen. FTTC with A&A. Phone line
> converted to wires only and billed by A&A, phone number ported to A&A VOIP.
> A&A FTTC service survived the ordeal unscathed.
depends on them providing both the phone line and the broadband. You can't
do it if somebody else runs the broadband.
Theo
Mark Carver
Aug 24, 2023, 9:19:02 AM8/24/23
to
On 24/08/2023 14:12, Theo wrote:
> Peter <nos...@nospam9876.com> wrote:
>>> Experience with SNOM 300 and the Gigaset N510 IP PRO confirms that no
>>> port opening is required. So I don't know why Voipfone suggest it.
>> Unless you a keep-aline for the NAT tunnel, you cannot receive
>> incoming calls.
> I think SIP clients typically do use a keepalive on their connection, for
> this reason.
>
> I'm considering a move to VF, anyone know if third party VOIP (A&A) works
> out of the box on their router?
I would have thought so. VF are just a bargain basement ISP aimed at the
> Peter <nos...@nospam9876.com> wrote:
>>> Experience with SNOM 300 and the Gigaset N510 IP PRO confirms that no
>>> port opening is required. So I don't know why Voipfone suggest it.
>> Unless you a keep-aline for the NAT tunnel, you cannot receive
>> incoming calls.
> I think SIP clients typically do use a keepalive on their connection, for
> this reason.
>
> I'm considering a move to VF, anyone know if third party VOIP (A&A) works
> out of the box on their router?
mass market, their router will have its doors 'wide open' to keep any
pesky support calls from gamers, or streamers at bay (due to possible
closed ports)
Mark Carver
Aug 24, 2023, 9:26:01 AM8/24/23
to
Re-provide' scheme, of which A&A are the only ISP to have taken it up,
(owing to their reassuringly expensiveness)
Tweed
Aug 24, 2023, 9:41:38 AM8/24/23
to
the change, only the broadband,
Mark Carver
Aug 24, 2023, 9:54:26 AM8/24/23
to
before they could initiate the port to VoIP.
I'm not criticising it at all, but it's a niche service, from a niche
ISP, that would only ever be utilised by 'people like us'.
Tweed
Aug 24, 2023, 10:06:22 AM8/24/23
to
was ported directly from Zen to A&A VOIP. The physical line went to being
billed by A&A at the same time.
Virgin Media are now attempting to be reassuringly expensive with their
price rises. (Different location to the A&A service) Unfortunately they
aren’t that reassuring and I’ll be jumping ship as soon as CityFibre can
put some fibre in the purple pipes they are laying.
Malcolm Loades
Aug 24, 2023, 10:17:52 AM8/24/23
to
On 24/08/2023 08:17, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 24/08/2023 in message <uc6sb3$3bu8v$1...@dont-email.me> Peter wrote:
>
>> What stops me porting my number now to some VOIP service and running
>> it on my current ADSL?
>
> I'd be interested to know if that is practical. Fibre is being laid in my
> village at the moment and will go live over the next few months but that
> is Internet only. I looked at Andrews & Arnold for VOIP and they do it but
> there is a monthly fee plus per call fees and it looks as if it would be
> expensive.
>
Eh?
> On 24/08/2023 in message <uc6sb3$3bu8v$1...@dont-email.me> Peter wrote:
>
>> What stops me porting my number now to some VOIP service and running
>> it on my current ADSL?
>
> I'd be interested to know if that is practical. Fibre is being laid in my
> village at the moment and will go live over the next few months but that
> is Internet only. I looked at Andrews & Arnold for VOIP and they do it but
> there is a monthly fee plus per call fees and it looks as if it would be
> expensive.
>
£15.00 one off to port a landline number in. Then £1.44 per month 'line
rental'. You don't have to have A&A broadband or any other service from
them for this. If that's not cheap I don't know what is.
Yes, their outgoing call rates are higher than many but you are under no
obligation to use them. Just use another supplier eg a Betamax offering
for outgoing calls while incoming are via A&A.
Malcolm
Tim+
Aug 24, 2023, 10:47:16 AM8/24/23
to
Peter <nos...@nospam9876.com> wrote:
>
> VF has been excellent, on both phones (GSM and landline) and ADSL.
A friend of mine runs a courier business. Relies very heavily on mobile
phone use.
She contacted VF about her *daughter’s* contract (which my friend also paid
for) which she wanted to cancel and was absolutely explicit about which
account she wanted to keep active.
VF cancelled the wrong one and were completely unable to “resurrect” the
cancelled number. Caused a *huge* amount of aggro.
Oddly enough she’s no longer with VF.
Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
>
> VF has been excellent, on both phones (GSM and landline) and ADSL.
A friend of mine runs a courier business. Relies very heavily on mobile
phone use.
She contacted VF about her *daughter’s* contract (which my friend also paid
for) which she wanted to cancel and was absolutely explicit about which
account she wanted to keep active.
VF cancelled the wrong one and were completely unable to “resurrect” the
cancelled number. Caused a *huge* amount of aggro.
Oddly enough she’s no longer with VF.
Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Tweed
Aug 24, 2023, 10:50:38 AM8/24/23
to
Tweed
Aug 24, 2023, 10:58:47 AM8/24/23
to
facing employees, some good some hopeless. I still haven’t got my late
mother out of the BT phone directory, three years after her death and after
numerous interactions with their bereavement line.
Jeff Gaines
Aug 24, 2023, 11:52:35 AM8/24/23
to
On 24/08/2023 in message <kkp74c...@mid.individual.net> Malcolm Loades
wrote:
1.5p/min to landlines 4p/min to mobiles and 3.6p per text is expensive
compared to my current landline deal or mobile deal.
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
If Björn & Benny had been called Syd and Dave then ABBA would have been
called ASDA.
wrote:
compared to my current landline deal or mobile deal.
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
If Björn & Benny had been called Syd and Dave then ABBA would have been
called ASDA.
Graham J
Aug 24, 2023, 12:02:29 PM8/24/23
to
SOGEA.
See:
<https://www.btwholesale.com/news-and-resources/campaigns/previous/sogea.html>
--
Graham J
Theo
Aug 24, 2023, 12:39:10 PM8/24/23
to
Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> Theo wrote:
> > Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Phone line rental and POTS voice was with Zen. FTTC with A&A. Phone line
> >> converted to wires only and billed by A&A, phone number ported to A&A VOIP.
> >> A&A FTTC service survived the ordeal unscathed.
> >
> > SFAIK A&A's ability to extract the number out of an operating PSTN line
> > depends on them providing both the phone line and the broadband. You can't
> > do it if somebody else runs the broadband.
>
> Any ISP providing both phone and broadband can convert the broadband to
> SOGEA.
The common situation is the phone and broadband is run by $cheapo_ISP and
> Theo wrote:
> > Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Phone line rental and POTS voice was with Zen. FTTC with A&A. Phone line
> >> converted to wires only and billed by A&A, phone number ported to A&A VOIP.
> >> A&A FTTC service survived the ordeal unscathed.
> >
> > SFAIK A&A's ability to extract the number out of an operating PSTN line
> > depends on them providing both the phone line and the broadband. You can't
> > do it if somebody else runs the broadband.
>
> Any ISP providing both phone and broadband can convert the broadband to
> SOGEA.
you want to port the number to A&A VOIP. You can't do that without also
porting the broadband to A&A as well (very not cheap).
If you're on SOGEA, can you now port out the number without ceasing the
broadband?
Theo
Rupert Moss-Eccardt
Aug 24, 2023, 1:25:22 PM8/24/23
to
>>Use Zen Internet. Order FTTP at £35 per month. Comes with static
IP.
>>You will get an ONT with an RJ45 connector, installed by Openreach or
>>their subcontractor - so no analog phone capability. But you can use
>>your own router.
>
> I would rather die than to do that.
>
> I don't want VOIP. I have a 3-8 PBX at home which just works and keeps
> working.
>
> One Q is whether anybody knows whether the BT guy will be able to give
> me the login creds for the router PPPOE interface. They *should* be
> the same as the existing Voda service over copper. Voda are doing this
> as an UPGRADE now NEW, to preserve the landline number. Keeping the
> existing router is key, for VPNs etc.
But BT aren't providing you with a router. They aren't really even
providing you with FTTP. Openreach are providing a PON connection
which Vodafone are using to provide you with a service.
IP.
>>You will get an ONT with an RJ45 connector, installed by Openreach or
>>their subcontractor - so no analog phone capability. But you can use
>>your own router.
>
> I would rather die than to do that.
>
> I don't want VOIP. I have a 3-8 PBX at home which just works and keeps
> working.
>
> One Q is whether anybody knows whether the BT guy will be able to give
> me the login creds for the router PPPOE interface. They *should* be
> the same as the existing Voda service over copper. Voda are doing this
> as an UPGRADE now NEW, to preserve the landline number. Keeping the
> existing router is key, for VPNs etc.
But BT aren't providing you with a router. They aren't really even
providing you with FTTP. Openreach are providing a PON connection
which Vodafone are using to provide you with a service.
Graham J
Aug 24, 2023, 1:44:48 PM8/24/23
to
associated with any sort of telephone number.
Until recently conversion to SOGEA would have irretrievably cancelled
the telephone number. But since about Easter this year it has been
possible to port-in a cancelled number to another provider, such as
Voipfone.
Whether $cheapo_ISP will allow the conversion to SOGEA I've no idea.
--
Graham J
Malcolm Loades
Aug 24, 2023, 2:12:06 PM8/24/23
to
outgoing calls. Just because you may use A&A to receive calls on the
number ported to them you *don't* have to make *any* outgoing calls via
them! Make them via another voip provider.
I have two old landline numbers which I ported to them and pay £2.88
total a month to receive calls to those numbers. I route outgoing calls
to all UK numbers and most European numbers for 0p per minute using the
180 freedays I get every time I top up my account with £10. The tenner
is spent on those calls which are chargeable eg 08700 and countries to
which there are no free calls.
You must get out of your head that everything must be done via a single
provider.
Malcolm
Jeff Gaines
Aug 24, 2023, 4:04:27 PM8/24/23
to
On 24/08/2023 in message <kkpkrj...@mid.individual.net> Malcolm Loades
wrote:
>You must get out of your head that everything must be done via a single
>provider.
I am considering what I might do but I do not want a lot of hassle just
for a 'phone, it's not that important to me.
The other option is to go mobile only of course.
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There are 3 types of people in this world. Those who can count, and those
who can't.
wrote:
>You must get out of your head that everything must be done via a single
>provider.
for a 'phone, it's not that important to me.
The other option is to go mobile only of course.
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
who can't.
Theo
Aug 24, 2023, 4:14:43 PM8/24/23
to
Jeff Gaines <jgne...@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 24/08/2023 in message <kkpkrj...@mid.individual.net> Malcolm Loades
> wrote:
>
> >You must get out of your head that everything must be done via a single
> >provider.
>
> I am considering what I might do but I do not want a lot of hassle just
> for a 'phone, it's not that important to me.
If you don't use the phone very much, a PAYG plan sounds ideal.
> On 24/08/2023 in message <kkpkrj...@mid.individual.net> Malcolm Loades
> wrote:
>
> >You must get out of your head that everything must be done via a single
> >provider.
>
> I am considering what I might do but I do not want a lot of hassle just
> for a 'phone, it's not that important to me.
A lot of people pay for an unlimited calls package, and then don't spend
many minutes making calls. You need to do the maths of 1.5p/min versus
paying say £10pm for the unlimited bundle. I think many people don't make
10 hours of landline calls a month.
> The other option is to go mobile only of course.
Or use the mobile for your outgoing calls, and keep the landline for
incoming.
Plenty of ways to play this.
Theo
Theo
Aug 24, 2023, 4:42:47 PM8/24/23
to
ISP will do anything to the broadband if the phone number is ported out?
They shouldn't, since it's now on their VOIP platform, but I don't know if
the 'phone number is the account number' practice continues on SOGEA ISPs?
(On Sky SOGEA, I've been asked for the phone number as an identifier when
calling them. When I tell them I have no idea, they manage to find another
way to authenticate me)
Theo
Graham J
Aug 24, 2023, 4:58:39 PM8/24/23
to
Peter wrote:
>
>> Experience with SNOM 300 and the Gigaset N510 IP PRO confirms that no
>> port opening is required. So I don't know why Voipfone suggest it.
>
>
>> Experience with SNOM 300 and the Gigaset N510 IP PRO confirms that no
>> port opening is required. So I don't know why Voipfone suggest it.
>
> Unless you a keep-aline for the NAT tunnel, you cannot receive
> incoming calls.
>
> incoming calls.
>
>>> I will get one of these and test it. It won't have my landline number
>>> (they come with some funny number) so I can test it.
>>
>> Good idea. If you order it from Voipfone they will configure it
>> correctly for you.
>
> I can't set up voipfone either, believe it or not. Their account conf
>>> (they come with some funny number) so I can test it.
>>
>> Good idea. If you order it from Voipfone they will configure it
>> correctly for you.
>
> email vanishes in the Hornet Security spam filter, although their
> original purchase conf email arrived ok. You could not make this up.
> They cannot override this manually due to "security" even after I sent
> them their own email.
I think you should investigate this, to find out exactly why Hornet
Security rejected the email from Voipfone.
Several possibilities:
1. The Voipfone outgoing mail server has a blacklisted IP address. If
so, it would be polite to tell Voipfone ASAP so they can resolve it.
2. You are receiving your email via a forwarding service which fails to
implement the Sender Rewriting Scheme correctly. See:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Rewriting_Scheme>
123-reg were known for this problem a few years back, when its ownership
changed hands.
3. Hornet Security is being too aggressive. You could whitelist traffic
from Voipfone.
--
Graham J
Tim+
Aug 25, 2023, 2:00:00 AM8/25/23
to
Peter <occassional...@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> - Virgin
> - Orange
> - O2
>
> but give them a chance to f'k up, they will.
> care home. It was resolved (on the advice of a guy in a Carphone
> Warehouse shop, owned by TT) by sending a Special Dely letter to their
> Company Secy, to his home address, threatening a CCJ.
>
Similar issues with TalkTalk and my mother who lost capacity to manage her
affairs whilst at home. Impossible to deal with so I just migrated her
phone and broadband to another company but with me paying the bills.
>
> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> But that’s a problem with any large organisation. Huge number of customer
>> facing employees, some good some hopeless.
>
> I agree. IME, Voda is much better than
>> But that’s a problem with any large organisation. Huge number of customer
>> facing employees, some good some hopeless.
>
>
> - Virgin
> - Orange
> - O2
>
> but give them a chance to f'k up, they will.
>
>> I still haven’t got my late
>> mother out of the BT phone directory, three years after her death and after
>> numerous interactions with their bereavement line.
>
> Try Talktalk ;) They really f'd over my mum, after she went into a
>> I still haven’t got my late
>> mother out of the BT phone directory, three years after her death and after
>> numerous interactions with their bereavement line.
>
> care home. It was resolved (on the advice of a guy in a Carphone
> Warehouse shop, owned by TT) by sending a Special Dely letter to their
> Company Secy, to his home address, threatening a CCJ.
>
Similar issues with TalkTalk and my mother who lost capacity to manage her
affairs whilst at home. Impossible to deal with so I just migrated her
phone and broadband to another company but with me paying the bills.
Mark Carver
Aug 25, 2023, 3:15:15 AM8/25/23
to
phone number.
My son moved all of 400 yards recently, and Sky changed the virtual
phone number. (Not that he cared)
Ironically, if you migrate to Sky from another ISP where you have a POTs
line, you do usually keep your number.
If you leave Sky, you lose it.
SH
Aug 25, 2023, 5:42:16 AM8/25/23
to
On 24/08/2023 22:27, Peter wrote:
>
> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote
become EE which was then bought by BT.
> but give them a chance to f'k up, they will.
>
>
> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> But that’s a problem with any large organisation. Huge number of customer
>> facing employees, some good some hopeless.
>
>> But that’s a problem with any large organisation. Huge number of customer
>> facing employees, some good some hopeless.
>
> I agree. IME, Voda is much better than
>
> - Virgin
> - Orange
> - O2
*Cough* Orange does not exist anymore as it merged with T-Mobile to
>
> - Virgin
> - Orange
> - O2
become EE which was then bought by BT.
> but give them a chance to f'k up, they will.
>
>> I still haven’t got my late
>> mother out of the BT phone directory, three years after her death and after
>> numerous interactions with their bereavement line.
>
>> mother out of the BT phone directory, three years after her death and after
>> numerous interactions with their bereavement line.
>
Mark Carver
Aug 25, 2023, 8:08:54 AM8/25/23
to
On 25/08/2023 10:42, SH wrote:
> On 24/08/2023 22:27, Peter wrote:
>>
>> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>> But that’s a problem with any large organisation. Huge number of
>>> customer
>>> facing employees, some good some hopeless.
>>
>> I agree. IME, Voda is much better than
>>
>> - Virgin
>> - Orange
>> - O2
>
>
> *Cough* Orange does not exist anymore as it merged with T-Mobile to
> become EE which was then bought by BT.
Having been a customer of Vodafone, and now EE, EE have been infinitely
> On 24/08/2023 22:27, Peter wrote:
>>
>> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>> But that’s a problem with any large organisation. Huge number of
>>> customer
>>> facing employees, some good some hopeless.
>>
>> I agree. IME, Voda is much better than
>>
>> - Virgin
>> - Orange
>> - O2
>
>
> *Cough* Orange does not exist anymore as it merged with T-Mobile to
> become EE which was then bought by BT.
better (even since BT taking them over) , (so far, YMMV)
Tony Mountifield
Aug 25, 2023, 11:04:25 AM8/25/23
to
In article <6vf*l6...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
included unlimited outbound calls to landlines of up to an hour duration. So I
downloaded the list of outbound calls we had made over the last 12-15 months, and
calculated how much I would have paid for them if they had been over A&A VOIP. It worked
out at about 2/month for the calls. Add 1.44/month for the VOIP rental, and it was a
no-brainer, saving me nearly 20/month.
I was already with A&A as my ISP on a different copper pair (which made it easy), had
many years experience with VOIP and Asterisk, and fortunately still had a couple of
Sipura SPA-3000 ATAs left over from my business, to which I could connect the existing
house phone. It was easy to set one up using a temporary number for testing, and then
to port the home number to A&A.
It's been running a couple of months now without any issues, and it feels no different.
Oh, and A&A call charges to landlines are 1.5p/min peak, 1.25p/min evenings and 1p/min
weekends.
In fact, we now tend to use our mobiles instead for outbound calls, which are inclusive.
Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Winchester, UK
Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Jeff Gaines <jgne...@outlook.com> wrote:
> > On 24/08/2023 in message <kkpkrj...@mid.individual.net> Malcolm Loades
> > wrote:
> >
> > >You must get out of your head that everything must be done via a single
> > >provider.
> >
> > I am considering what I might do but I do not want a lot of hassle just
> > for a 'phone, it's not that important to me.
>
> If you don't use the phone very much, a PAYG plan sounds ideal.
>
> A lot of people pay for an unlimited calls package, and then don't spend
> many minutes making calls. You need to do the maths of 1.5p/min versus
> paying say £10pm for the unlimited bundle. I think many people don't make
> 10 hours of landline calls a month.
Exactly! I recently ported my BT home number to A&A VOIP. I was paying BT 23/month which
> Jeff Gaines <jgne...@outlook.com> wrote:
> > On 24/08/2023 in message <kkpkrj...@mid.individual.net> Malcolm Loades
> > wrote:
> >
> > >You must get out of your head that everything must be done via a single
> > >provider.
> >
> > I am considering what I might do but I do not want a lot of hassle just
> > for a 'phone, it's not that important to me.
>
> If you don't use the phone very much, a PAYG plan sounds ideal.
>
> A lot of people pay for an unlimited calls package, and then don't spend
> many minutes making calls. You need to do the maths of 1.5p/min versus
> paying say £10pm for the unlimited bundle. I think many people don't make
> 10 hours of landline calls a month.
included unlimited outbound calls to landlines of up to an hour duration. So I
downloaded the list of outbound calls we had made over the last 12-15 months, and
calculated how much I would have paid for them if they had been over A&A VOIP. It worked
out at about 2/month for the calls. Add 1.44/month for the VOIP rental, and it was a
no-brainer, saving me nearly 20/month.
I was already with A&A as my ISP on a different copper pair (which made it easy), had
many years experience with VOIP and Asterisk, and fortunately still had a couple of
Sipura SPA-3000 ATAs left over from my business, to which I could connect the existing
house phone. It was easy to set one up using a temporary number for testing, and then
to port the home number to A&A.
It's been running a couple of months now without any issues, and it feels no different.
Oh, and A&A call charges to landlines are 1.5p/min peak, 1.25p/min evenings and 1p/min
weekends.
In fact, we now tend to use our mobiles instead for outbound calls, which are inclusive.
Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Winchester, UK
Graham J
Aug 26, 2023, 11:34:13 AM8/26/23
to
Peter wrote:
> It's working!
>
> It needed a FCC68-BT adaptor (which mysteriously didn't come in the
> box) and the right kind of dumb POTS phone (I found a BT Converse 120
> in a box of junk).
I suspect the Grandstream is made for the USA market. I think it
assumes CAT5 flood wiring for the phone connections. I remember needing
the FCC68-BT adaptor when connecting phones in a business environment.
If you measure what comes out of the adapter there will be about 50v dc
otherwise your dumb POTS phone would not work. I always keep a dumb
POTS phone for testing - the last one cost me £10 from Curry's.
Have Voipfone been able to resolve the admin login issue? Did they
perhaps pre-configure it with a password?
If you look at the Voipfone account management page:
<https://my.voipfone.co.uk/#!/services/master-account/phone-settings>
You might find the 6-digit password that they have set up in the
Grandstream. They do this for the SNOM 300 phones that I've used.
It's worth reviewing and documenting all the Grandstream settings.
> Now I am ready for the Voda FTTP conversion. On the day they do it I
> will port my number to Voipfone. They are great; I got a phone call in
> reply to my email this morning, Saturday!
I've certainly found them quite helpful.
> The stuff about opening port 5060 is indeed basically nonsense; it is
> advice for heavy corporate systems which are totally firewalled both
> ways.
>
> Thank you all!
>
--
Graham J
> It's working!
>
> It needed a FCC68-BT adaptor (which mysteriously didn't come in the
> box) and the right kind of dumb POTS phone (I found a BT Converse 120
> in a box of junk).
I suspect the Grandstream is made for the USA market. I think it
assumes CAT5 flood wiring for the phone connections. I remember needing
the FCC68-BT adaptor when connecting phones in a business environment.
If you measure what comes out of the adapter there will be about 50v dc
otherwise your dumb POTS phone would not work. I always keep a dumb
POTS phone for testing - the last one cost me £10 from Curry's.
Have Voipfone been able to resolve the admin login issue? Did they
perhaps pre-configure it with a password?
If you look at the Voipfone account management page:
<https://my.voipfone.co.uk/#!/services/master-account/phone-settings>
You might find the 6-digit password that they have set up in the
Grandstream. They do this for the SNOM 300 phones that I've used.
It's worth reviewing and documenting all the Grandstream settings.
> Now I am ready for the Voda FTTP conversion. On the day they do it I
> will port my number to Voipfone. They are great; I got a phone call in
> reply to my email this morning, Saturday!
I've certainly found them quite helpful.
> The stuff about opening port 5060 is indeed basically nonsense; it is
> advice for heavy corporate systems which are totally firewalled both
> ways.
>
> Thank you all!
>
--
Graham J
Graham J
Aug 29, 2023, 3:28:38 PM8/29/23
to
Peter wrote:
[snip]
>
> Interesting. Didn't notice that. Thanks.
>
Well worth reviewing everything on the management site ...
--
Graham J
[snip]
>
> Interesting. Didn't notice that. Thanks.
>
Well worth reviewing everything on the management site ...
--
Graham J
Mark Undrill
Aug 30, 2023, 12:44:02 PM8/30/23
to
On 24/08/2023 07:11, Peter wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> What stops me porting my number *now* to some VOIP service and running
8/10 Mbps.
<snip>
>
<snip>
>
> What stops me porting my number *now* to some VOIP service and running
> it on my current ADSL?
>
I did this for a few years with no problem. My rural ADSL managed about
>
8/10 Mbps.
<snip>
notya...@gmail.com
Aug 31, 2023, 6:58:55 AM8/31/23
to
On Wednesday, 30 August 2023 at 17:44:02 UTC+1, Mark Undrill wrote:
> On 24/08/2023 07:11, Peter wrote:
> >
> <snip>
>
> >
> > What stops me porting my number *now* to some VOIP service and running
> > it on my current ADSL?
Virtually nothing, except that this might cancel your ADSL. Suggest Voipfone.
> On 24/08/2023 07:11, Peter wrote:
> >
> <snip>
>
> >
> > What stops me porting my number *now* to some VOIP service and running
> > it on my current ADSL?
Very reliable, worth incident - one day of slowness when they suffered a DDoS attack.
> >
> I did this for a few years with no problem. My rural ADSL managed about
> 8/10 Mbps.
>
> <snip>
Graham J
Aug 31, 2023, 11:26:17 AM8/31/23
to
notya...@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
>> I did this for a few years with no problem. My rural ADSL managed about
>> 8/10 Mbps.
>>
>> <snip>
>
> I did this 15+ years ago. Lowest [certain] link speeds were 8Mbps ADSL and 7M2bps (3G), however even 1Mbps is plenty for multiple connections.
I used Voipfone in 2011 for a satellite connection with Tooway. Huge
latency, slow speeds, but the VoIP service worked fine.
--
Graham J
[snip]
>> I did this for a few years with no problem. My rural ADSL managed about
>> 8/10 Mbps.
>>
>> <snip>
>
> I did this 15+ years ago. Lowest [certain] link speeds were 8Mbps ADSL and 7M2bps (3G), however even 1Mbps is plenty for multiple connections.
latency, slow speeds, but the VoIP service worked fine.
--
Graham J
Graham J
Oct 13, 2023, 1:20:07 PM10/13/23
to
Peter wrote:
> This is an update on this saga.
Thanks - I was thinking of you today and was going to ask ....
[snip]
> As advised here I ported my landline number to Voiphone whose service
> is really super. The porting is in progress; taking over a week so
> far. We have a temporary number in the meantime.
You can make outgoing calls before the porting is complete.
Voipfone ported 2 numbers for me. First from Plusnet requested on 15
Feb completed 22 Feb. Second from Zen requested on 20 March completed
on 27 March so 7 days. How does this compare with your times?
> Then I got some funny emails.
Did you follow up the first link https://funding ..... Or simply ignore
them all?
--
Graham J
> This is an update on this saga.
Thanks - I was thinking of you today and was going to ask ....
[snip]
> As advised here I ported my landline number to Voiphone whose service
> is really super. The porting is in progress; taking over a week so
> far. We have a temporary number in the meantime.
You can make outgoing calls before the porting is complete.
Voipfone ported 2 numbers for me. First from Plusnet requested on 15
Feb completed 22 Feb. Second from Zen requested on 20 March completed
on 27 March so 7 days. How does this compare with your times?
> Then I got some funny emails.
Did you follow up the first link https://funding ..... Or simply ignore
them all?
--
Graham J
Graham J
Oct 13, 2023, 3:03:15 PM10/13/23
to
Peter wrote:
[snip]
>> Voipfone ported 2 numbers for me. First from Plusnet requested on 15
>> Feb completed 22 Feb. Second from Zen requested on 20 March completed
>> on 27 March so 7 days. How does this compare with your times?
>
> Porting request on 6th Oct. Number not working yet.
Probably takes longer to extract the number from the clutches of
Vodafone ....
--
Graham J
[snip]
>> Voipfone ported 2 numbers for me. First from Plusnet requested on 15
>> Feb completed 22 Feb. Second from Zen requested on 20 March completed
>> on 27 March so 7 days. How does this compare with your times?
>
Probably takes longer to extract the number from the clutches of
Vodafone ....
--
Graham J
Graham J
Oct 24, 2023, 9:23:30 AM10/24/23
to
Peter wrote:
> Vodafone will not under any circumstances release the old ADSL
> landline number without terminating the FTTP service.
>
> So I stopped the porting process.
>
> I might try setting up the Voipfone VOIP box to use the Voda
> credentials. I think I bought that box but if not I will buy it.
>
> Totally unbelievable!
>
> I asked why can't they disconnect FTTP and immediately reconnect it.
> Too complicated; would need to set up a new service.
So this is why Vofafone was offering FTTP so cheaply!
Get your FTTP from Zen then port your ADSL landline number to Voipfone.
--
Graham J
> Vodafone will not under any circumstances release the old ADSL
> landline number without terminating the FTTP service.
>
> So I stopped the porting process.
>
> I might try setting up the Voipfone VOIP box to use the Voda
> credentials. I think I bought that box but if not I will buy it.
>
> Totally unbelievable!
>
> I asked why can't they disconnect FTTP and immediately reconnect it.
> Too complicated; would need to set up a new service.
So this is why Vofafone was offering FTTP so cheaply!
Get your FTTP from Zen then port your ADSL landline number to Voipfone.
--
Graham J
Graham J
Oct 24, 2023, 9:26:13 AM10/24/23
to
Peter wrote:
> I have a Grandstream box from Voipfone and have the following Voda
> VOIP credentials (obfuscated)
>
> Username dsl0ghfh...@businessbroadband.vodafone.co.uk
>
> Password hghghghghg
>
> Product information for VoIP
> Username / Password
> cxcxcxcxc / bnvbvbvbvbv
> SIP proxy
> xbn.Z5.bbvoice.vodafone.co.uk
> SIP registrar
> resvoip.vodafone.co.uk
> SIP URI
> kjkjkjkjk
>
> but have no idea where these can be configured in the Grandstream box.
> For example there is no "username". It has various config boxes but
> most don't correspond to the above.
>
> I would be really grateful for any help :)
Have you asked Voipfone?
Why do you want to do this? It's not clear to me that your ADSL
landline number can be converted to a VoIP service from Vodafone,
particularly in the light of your earlier post.
--
Graham J
> I have a Grandstream box from Voipfone and have the following Voda
> VOIP credentials (obfuscated)
>
> Username dsl0ghfh...@businessbroadband.vodafone.co.uk
>
> Password hghghghghg
>
> Product information for VoIP
> Username / Password
> cxcxcxcxc / bnvbvbvbvbv
> SIP proxy
> xbn.Z5.bbvoice.vodafone.co.uk
> SIP registrar
> resvoip.vodafone.co.uk
> SIP URI
> kjkjkjkjk
>
> but have no idea where these can be configured in the Grandstream box.
> For example there is no "username". It has various config boxes but
> most don't correspond to the above.
>
> I would be really grateful for any help :)
Have you asked Voipfone?
Why do you want to do this? It's not clear to me that your ADSL
landline number can be converted to a VoIP service from Vodafone,
particularly in the light of your earlier post.
--
Graham J
David Wade
Oct 24, 2023, 9:55:49 AM10/24/23
to
>> Have you asked Voipfone?
>
> Yes; they can't assist with the Voda credentials (which makes sense)
> and don't seem to believe that Voda will really terminate the FTTP
> service.
> only via *their* VOIP.
Tell them that VOIP numbers must be portable.
https://vipvoip.co.uk/voip-numbers-porting/
one of many....
Dave
>
> Yes; they can't assist with the Voda credentials (which makes sense)
> and don't seem to believe that Voda will really terminate the FTTP
> service.
>
>> Why do you want to do this? It's not clear to me that your ADSL
>> landline number can be converted to a VoIP service from Vodafone,
>> particularly in the light of your earlier post.
>
> Voda tell me that my original landline number is still available, but
>> Why do you want to do this? It's not clear to me that your ADSL
>> landline number can be converted to a VoIP service from Vodafone,
>> particularly in the light of your earlier post.
>
> only via *their* VOIP.
Tell them that VOIP numbers must be portable.
https://vipvoip.co.uk/voip-numbers-porting/
one of many....
Dave
Graham J
Oct 24, 2023, 12:49:14 PM10/24/23
to
Peter wrote:
> Got it working on Voda OK.
>
> Took a while and some of the Grandstream 801 config is flakey and
> seems to reset itself to some defaults when you reboot it (e.g. the
> Codec list all just resets). A shitty device...
>
Some years ago I used a Linksys PAP2T and had no problems with it on
Voipfone.
--
Graham J
> Got it working on Voda OK.
>
> Took a while and some of the Grandstream 801 config is flakey and
> seems to reset itself to some defaults when you reboot it (e.g. the
> Codec list all just resets). A shitty device...
>
Some years ago I used a Linksys PAP2T and had no problems with it on
Voipfone.
--
Graham J
Theo
Oct 24, 2023, 5:26:38 PM10/24/23
to
Peter <occassional...@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
>
> The Vodafone dicks changed the ADSL (PPPOE) login this afternoon!
I can't speak for your specifics, but I had the misfortune to call Vodafone
to sort something with somebody's account and they were equivalently useless.
It's been two months digging them out of a hole believed to be of VF's
making.
Definitely in the Avoid category it seems.
Theo
>
> The Vodafone dicks changed the ADSL (PPPOE) login this afternoon!
I can't speak for your specifics, but I had the misfortune to call Vodafone
to sort something with somebody's account and they were equivalently useless.
It's been two months digging them out of a hole believed to be of VF's
making.
Definitely in the Avoid category it seems.
Theo
Andy Burns
Oct 25, 2023, 3:23:14 AM10/25/23
to
Peter wrote:
> It looks like when I asked Voda for the VOIP credentials today, they
> changed the PPPOE login credentials!
Had a similar issue a few years back, when dad phoned plusnet (I think
regarding his email password) they changed it without letting him know
it would also change his FTTC password, so chopping him off from the
internet, of course they left me to sort that little problem out for him ...
> It looks like when I asked Voda for the VOIP credentials today, they
> changed the PPPOE login credentials!
Had a similar issue a few years back, when dad phoned plusnet (I think
regarding his email password) they changed it without letting him know
it would also change his FTTC password, so chopping him off from the
internet, of course they left me to sort that little problem out for him ...
Theo
Oct 25, 2023, 6:56:50 AM10/25/23
to
Peter <occassional...@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
> 3rd call got me a woman!! So, hope, finally. She found the problem -
> exactly what I thought. Apparently the porting request didn't actually
> get cancelled so Voda pulled a plug on the whole thing. They are now
> trying to re-create the whole order. So I will probably get all new
> login credentials and new "fixed" IP so have to reconfig everything
> yet again. Completely disorganised.
That sounds similar to the problem I've been dealing with. Customer
requested ADSL+PSTN port to VF, VF were a confusing mess about moving to
FTTC+VOIP and keeping the number. Customer cancelled the port and decided
to move to BT. Every time an order went in to BT it was cancelled within 24
hours. Seems that VF caused 'pending cease' on the line and this blocked
any attempts to port elsewhere. Of course VF customer services deny they
did such a thing.
Had to wait 6 weeks for the 'pending cease' to timeout and the BT port
has now been accepted on the 6th attempt.
Theo
> 3rd call got me a woman!! So, hope, finally. She found the problem -
> exactly what I thought. Apparently the porting request didn't actually
> get cancelled so Voda pulled a plug on the whole thing. They are now
> trying to re-create the whole order. So I will probably get all new
> login credentials and new "fixed" IP so have to reconfig everything
> yet again. Completely disorganised.
That sounds similar to the problem I've been dealing with. Customer
requested ADSL+PSTN port to VF, VF were a confusing mess about moving to
FTTC+VOIP and keeping the number. Customer cancelled the port and decided
to move to BT. Every time an order went in to BT it was cancelled within 24
hours. Seems that VF caused 'pending cease' on the line and this blocked
any attempts to port elsewhere. Of course VF customer services deny they
did such a thing.
Had to wait 6 weeks for the 'pending cease' to timeout and the BT port
has now been accepted on the 6th attempt.
Theo
Andy Burns
Oct 25, 2023, 7:14:25 AM10/25/23
to
Peter wrote:
> the usual procedure; with Voda one used to get an English call centre
> eventually but not any more
Calling a welsh-language support number used to be a way to avoid
getting off-shored with some companies?
> the usual procedure; with Voda one used to get an English call centre
> eventually but not any more
Calling a welsh-language support number used to be a way to avoid
getting off-shored with some companies?
Andy Burns
Oct 25, 2023, 7:17:34 AM10/25/23
to
Theo wrote:
> Customer requested ADSL+PSTN port to VF, VF were a confusing mess about
> moving to FTTC+VOIP and keeping the number.
Yesterday someone mentioned voda's prices for FTTP/FTTC so I tried out
> Customer requested ADSL+PSTN port to VF, VF were a confusing mess about
> moving to FTTC+VOIP and keeping the number.
their website, one of the Q's it asked was whether I wanted to migrate
existing voice number or "get a new voice number", so I presume they're
using that as a way lo ditching analogue PSTN voice facility and
providing VoIP with a phone socket on router?
Theo
Oct 25, 2023, 9:26:11 AM10/25/23
to
Openreach's stop sell date (5 September). Hence any migration includes a
migration to VOIP. It seems like the discussion of whether there would be a
new number or a port of the PSTN number was a confusing mess, which is one
thing that caused the customer to back out.
* except for exceptional exceptions
Theo
Graham J
Oct 25, 2023, 11:15:20 AM10/25/23
to
Theo wrote:
[snip]
>
> It's not possible* to order analogue PSTN from any ISP as it's past
> Openreach's stop sell date (5 September). Hence any migration includes a
> migration to VOIP. It seems like the discussion of whether there would be a
> new number or a port of the PSTN number was a confusing mess, which is one
> thing that caused the customer to back out.
>
> * except for exceptional exceptions
To quote:
"We have had extended talks with both Openreach and BT. As a result we
have been assured that there was no chance of connection to any digital
pathway but that our copper line would remain available even after the
general cut off date. "
This is on the north Norfolk coast, not that far from Holbeach.
--
Graham J
[snip]
>
> It's not possible* to order analogue PSTN from any ISP as it's past
> Openreach's stop sell date (5 September). Hence any migration includes a
> migration to VOIP. It seems like the discussion of whether there would be a
> new number or a port of the PSTN number was a confusing mess, which is one
> thing that caused the customer to back out.
>
> * except for exceptional exceptions
"We have had extended talks with both Openreach and BT. As a result we
have been assured that there was no chance of connection to any digital
pathway but that our copper line would remain available even after the
general cut off date. "
This is on the north Norfolk coast, not that far from Holbeach.
--
Graham J
Andy Burns
Oct 25, 2023, 12:10:19 PM10/25/23
to
Peter wrote:
> Time to look at another ISP. Looking at ZEN but horrible website. They
> do 60mbps down, 10 up, for £35 plus £6/m for VOIP.
Plusnet £27.45/month here includes POTS, which is now unavailable, so I
can "upgrade" to the same broadband I have without POTS for an
additional 54p/month.
Still £13/month cheaper than zen, you could get VoIP from e.g. voifone
and still be better off ...
> Time to look at another ISP. Looking at ZEN but horrible website. They
> do 60mbps down, 10 up, for £35 plus £6/m for VOIP.
Plusnet £27.45/month here includes POTS, which is now unavailable, so I
can "upgrade" to the same broadband I have without POTS for an
additional 54p/month.
Still £13/month cheaper than zen, you could get VoIP from e.g. voifone
and still be better off ...
Andy Burns
Oct 25, 2023, 12:44:59 PM10/25/23
to
Peter wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>>
>> Plusnet £27.45/month here
>
> How do ZEN, and A&A, manage to charge quite a bit more?
Theoretically my contract will rise to £54.39/month after 24 months, in
practice another discounted option is likely to be available, not even
necessary to threaten to leave ... unless Plusnet has morphed into EE
broadband by then?
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>>
>> Plusnet £27.45/month here
>
> How do ZEN, and A&A, manage to charge quite a bit more?
Theoretically my contract will rise to £54.39/month after 24 months, in
practice another discounted option is likely to be available, not even
necessary to threaten to leave ... unless Plusnet has morphed into EE
broadband by then?
Andy Burns
Oct 25, 2023, 12:55:58 PM10/25/23
to
Peter wrote:
> Apparently Voipfone can do FTTP also. Superfast Fibre 2 £32 per month
> 35.7 - 80 Mbps Estimated download speed 6.5 - 20 Mbps Estimated upload
> speed
Sounds like FTTC rather than FTTP at those speeds?
> Apparently Voipfone can do FTTP also. Superfast Fibre 2 £32 per month
> 35.7 - 80 Mbps Estimated download speed 6.5 - 20 Mbps Estimated upload
> speed
Sounds like FTTC rather than FTTP at those speeds?
Graham J
Oct 25, 2023, 1:11:44 PM10/25/23
to
Peter wrote:
> And now the Voda bastards tell me I will not have any connection for a
> minimum of 10 days.
>
> And this is where there is no signal on, guess what, Voda GSM ;)
> same ballpark; I use them at work and they are good.
I get 100mbits/sec down and 20 mbits/sec up using FTTP from Zen at the
same £35/month that you quote. Worth ringing them to establish that
they really are offering FTTP at your location, because those figures
look like FTTC.
Why integrate the VoIP with the broadband? Better to keep them separate
so that changing one does not break the other. Learn from your bad
experience with Vodafone.
--
Graham J
> And now the Voda bastards tell me I will not have any connection for a
> minimum of 10 days.
>
> And this is where there is no signal on, guess what, Voda GSM ;)
>
> Time to look at another ISP. Looking at ZEN but horrible website. They
> do 60mbps down, 10 up, for £35 plus £6/m for VOIP. A&Arnold are in the
> Time to look at another ISP. Looking at ZEN but horrible website. They
> same ballpark; I use them at work and they are good.
I get 100mbits/sec down and 20 mbits/sec up using FTTP from Zen at the
same £35/month that you quote. Worth ringing them to establish that
they really are offering FTTP at your location, because those figures
look like FTTC.
Why integrate the VoIP with the broadband? Better to keep them separate
so that changing one does not break the other. Learn from your bad
experience with Vodafone.
--
Graham J
Graham J
Oct 25, 2023, 1:12:35 PM10/25/23
to
Peter wrote:
>
> The problem is that everybody says "10 working days" so I may as well
> sit tight and wait for Voda.
>
> Bizzarely, Voda own the service already (FTTP+number) so they could
> just "turn it back on" internally. But they won't.
This is why nobody should ever deal with Vodafone.
--
Graham J
> How do ZEN, and A&A, manage to charge quite a bit more?
>
> Are call centres in India really a big cost factor?
>
>
> The problem is that everybody says "10 working days" so I may as well
> sit tight and wait for Voda.
>
> Bizzarely, Voda own the service already (FTTP+number) so they could
> just "turn it back on" internally. But they won't.
This is why nobody should ever deal with Vodafone.
--
Graham J
Graham J
Oct 25, 2023, 1:14:43 PM10/25/23
to
>> Still £13/month cheaper than zen, you could get VoIP from e.g. voifone
>> and still be better off ...
>
>> and still be better off ...
>
> Apparently Voipfone can do FTTP also.
>
> Superfast Fibre 2
> £32 per month
>
>
> 35.7 - 80 Mbps
> Estimated download speed
>
>
> 6.5 - 20 Mbps
> Estimated upload speed
>
> Unlimited data
>
> Superfast Fibre 2
> £32 per month
>
>
> 35.7 - 80 Mbps
> Estimated download speed
>
>
> 6.5 - 20 Mbps
> Estimated upload speed
>
> 30 day rolling contract
>
> Tempting... can anyone see a problem?
>
"Superfast Fibre 2" usually describes FTTC, "Superfast Fibre 1" being
the same service capped at 40 Mbits/sec for a reduced price.
FTTP is usually described as "Full Fibre".
Worth asking what they really mean ...
--
Graham J
David Wade
Oct 25, 2023, 6:05:47 PM10/25/23
to
>> "Superfast Fibre 2" usually describes FTTC, "Superfast Fibre 1" being
>> the same service capped at 40 Mbits/sec for a reduced price.
>>
>> FTTP is usually described as "Full Fibre".
>>
>> Worth asking what they really mean ...
>
If OpenReach FTTP is available then generally that is all you can buy
>> the same service capped at 40 Mbits/sec for a reduced price.
>>
>> FTTP is usually described as "Full Fibre".
>>
>> Worth asking what they really mean ...
>
from OpenReach but as you say FTTP is generally described as "Full
Fibre" but the lowest level now appears to be branded "full fibre
essentials"
> Definitely I have FTTP at home. I know what it looks like :) Fibre
> junction box outside, 2nd fibre run going inside to the BT OR box with
> a WAN socket.
>
> It worked (on Voda) for a week or two, too.
>
> Copper is gone.
>
> Most ISPs seems to do much the same speeds here.
>
Where Openreach FTTP They are generally have two offerings that match
the old FTTC Infinity 1 and Infinity 2 speeds at similar prices.
The other Fibre infrastructure providers e.g. CityFibre may have
different offerings. For example some offer symmetric rates.
> I can get a gigabit for a lot more money.
Yes I have the 500Mb
Dave
Andy Burns
Oct 26, 2023, 2:15:43 PM10/26/23
to
Peter wrote:
> Voipfone have been absolutely brilliant.
> FTTP was set up basically same day.
Had never noticed they also did broadband.
> Voipfone have been absolutely brilliant.
> FTTP was set up basically same day.
Had never noticed they also did broadband.
Theo
Oct 26, 2023, 3:12:48 PM10/26/23
to
> FTTP was set up basically same day. Authorised 9am, bought from their
> website 10am, and running now 6pm!
>
> Great support too. Could not recommend them more.
>
> We should all support these smaller firms, not script monkey t0ssers
> like Vodafone.
ADSL £22pm
40/10 £29pm (FTTP and FTTC)
80/20 £32pm (FTTP and FTTC)
115/20 £34pm (FTTP)
550/75 £45pm (FTTP)
1000/115 £50pm (FTTP)
30 day rolling contract. Use your own router or they sell a Technicolor
DGA0122 for £105. Static IP an extra £2pm.
That's actually quite respectable all things considered, especially as
you aren't locked into a contract with a price rise at the end.
(although I'd not be in a hurry to buy their router)
Theo
> website 10am, and running now 6pm!
>
> Great support too. Could not recommend them more.
>
> We should all support these smaller firms, not script monkey t0ssers
> like Vodafone.
ADSL £22pm
40/10 £29pm (FTTP and FTTC)
80/20 £32pm (FTTP and FTTC)
115/20 £34pm (FTTP)
550/75 £45pm (FTTP)
1000/115 £50pm (FTTP)
30 day rolling contract. Use your own router or they sell a Technicolor
DGA0122 for £105. Static IP an extra £2pm.
That's actually quite respectable all things considered, especially as
you aren't locked into a contract with a price rise at the end.
(although I'd not be in a hurry to buy their router)
Theo
Andy Burns
Oct 27, 2023, 3:49:36 AM10/27/23
to
Peter wrote:
> I am getting an actual 75/20.
Do you mean measured by a speedtest site, or the actual line rate?
A couple of times you've said you have FTTP, but if so, I'd expect you
to get exactly the speed you pay for, there isn't any training of
frequency bins etc there is with FTTC ...
> I am getting an actual 75/20.
Do you mean measured by a speedtest site, or the actual line rate?
A couple of times you've said you have FTTP, but if so, I'd expect you
to get exactly the speed you pay for, there isn't any training of
frequency bins etc there is with FTTC ...
Graham J
Oct 28, 2023, 4:03:52 AM10/28/23
to
Peter wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> All this was done inside one day. Really amazing.
>
Given that you already had the physical FTTP hardware, there's no excuse
for not being able to do it within a day.
My worry is that if you recommend Voipfone too highly, then everybody
wil use them, and they won't have the staff or administrative capacity
to cope with the larger volume of business. There's a reason why BT,
Vofafone, and the like are so crap!
--
Graham J
>
[snip]
>
> All this was done inside one day. Really amazing.
>
Given that you already had the physical FTTP hardware, there's no excuse
for not being able to do it within a day.
My worry is that if you recommend Voipfone too highly, then everybody
wil use them, and they won't have the staff or administrative capacity
to cope with the larger volume of business. There's a reason why BT,
Vofafone, and the like are so crap!
--
Graham J
Graham J
Oct 28, 2023, 4:04:42 AM10/28/23
to
Peter wrote:
> Voipfone have been absolutely brilliant.
>
> FTTP was set up basically same day. Authorised 9am, bought from their
> website 10am, and running now 6pm!
>
> Great support too. Could not recommend them more.
>
> We should all support these smaller firms, not script monkey t0ssers
> like Vodafone.
>
What do you mean by "Authorised", please?
> Voipfone have been absolutely brilliant.
>
> FTTP was set up basically same day. Authorised 9am, bought from their
> website 10am, and running now 6pm!
>
> Great support too. Could not recommend them more.
>
> We should all support these smaller firms, not script monkey t0ssers
> like Vodafone.
>
--
Graham J
Andy Burns
Oct 28, 2023, 4:17:40 AM10/28/23
to
Graham J wrote:
> What do you mean by "Authorised", please?
Looking at their website, if transferring existing service, they say
> What do you mean by "Authorised", please?
"You will need to send us a signed letter authorising us to to
transfer your broadband, plus a copy of a telephone bill
confirming your name, address and telephone number."
Graham J
Oct 28, 2023, 4:26:04 AM10/28/23
to
the authorization paperwork a few minutes later. Then received their
invoice, which I paid immediately
--
Graham J
Theo
Oct 28, 2023, 5:24:44 AM10/28/23
to
Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> Given that you already had the physical FTTP hardware, there's no excuse
> for not being able to do it within a day.
It's interesting because I thought there was a 14 day 'cooling off'
> Given that you already had the physical FTTP hardware, there's no excuse
> for not being able to do it within a day.
period before anything would happen - in particular, to allow enough
time for a letter to arrive to notify the customer of the switch, in
case the switch had been done maliciously.
Maybe the 'send us a copy of your phone bill' thing offers equivalent
security?
> My worry is that if you recommend Voipfone too highly, then everybody
> wil use them, and they won't have the staff or administrative capacity
> to cope with the larger volume of business. There's a reason why BT,
> Vofafone, and the like are so crap!
more customers.
Theo
Theo
Oct 30, 2023, 10:37:07 AM10/30/23
to
Peter <occassional...@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
> But no news on the LL port.
>
> How long do I have? It is 30 days, but from when? If from 5th Oct then
> they better hurry up.
I would ask Voipfone - I think the chances are they will have more idea
what's going on than Voda, in particular whether they have submitted the
porting request.
Is the number originally a BT one or is it originally Voda?
ie look it up here:
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm
and see who owns the number block. I'd guess BT, if it was originally
an exchange line?
If it's a BT number, Voipfone need to submit the porting request to BT,
who will change the routing. You can ask Voipfone when this was
submitted - I presume, but don't know, that BT will 'stop the clock' if
a porting request is received.
[I'm not completely clear whether the ownership of phone numbers is BT
or Openreach here, although I'm not sure it matters in this case]
> Should I send a Spec Dely letter to the Voda chief executive? that
> used to work; they had a special department called the Directors'
> Complaints Dept and they dealt with these.
Unless the number is in a Voda number block I don't see what Voda now
have to do with it, since they have cancelled any port in to them (if
what you say is correct).
Theo
> But no news on the LL port.
>
> How long do I have? It is 30 days, but from when? If from 5th Oct then
> they better hurry up.
I would ask Voipfone - I think the chances are they will have more idea
what's going on than Voda, in particular whether they have submitted the
porting request.
Is the number originally a BT one or is it originally Voda?
ie look it up here:
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm
and see who owns the number block. I'd guess BT, if it was originally
an exchange line?
If it's a BT number, Voipfone need to submit the porting request to BT,
who will change the routing. You can ask Voipfone when this was
submitted - I presume, but don't know, that BT will 'stop the clock' if
a porting request is received.
[I'm not completely clear whether the ownership of phone numbers is BT
or Openreach here, although I'm not sure it matters in this case]
> Should I send a Spec Dely letter to the Voda chief executive? that
> used to work; they had a special department called the Directors'
> Complaints Dept and they dealt with these.
Unless the number is in a Voda number block I don't see what Voda now
have to do with it, since they have cancelled any port in to them (if
what you say is correct).
Theo
Graham J
Oct 30, 2023, 10:43:33 AM10/30/23
to
Peter wrote:
> Vodafone are very slow in allowing the landline number to be ported to
> Voipfone.
>
> FTTP originally went in 5th Oct. I applied for the LL # to be ported
> then. Voda dragged their heels for some days, eventually refusing to
> separate it from FTTP, so the porting request was cancelled.
>
> Voda however carried on and terminated the whole service, and sent me
> a weird SMS telling me to F off elsewhere.
>
> I moved the whole lot (FTTP and LL) to Voipfone.
>
> Got FTTP working a few days ago - as posted earlier.
Further confused by Openreach having wired the number to two properties
half a mile apart. Unicom would not release the "BT Retail Fibre
Service" on the number so my customer could not apply for FTTC from the
ISP that I recommended.
This was a small business, which had recently relocated, so had spent
money on new cards, letterheads, etc. with the new phone number.
The only resolution was to apply for a completely new phone number and
FTTC service. So another cost in reprinting all the stationary.
Clearly my customer did not want to have any further relationship with
Unicom.
Do you have the patience to take it up with Ofcom?
--
Graham J
> Vodafone are very slow in allowing the landline number to be ported to
> Voipfone.
>
> FTTP originally went in 5th Oct. I applied for the LL # to be ported
> then. Voda dragged their heels for some days, eventually refusing to
> separate it from FTTP, so the porting request was cancelled.
>
> Voda however carried on and terminated the whole service, and sent me
> a weird SMS telling me to F off elsewhere.
>
> I moved the whole lot (FTTP and LL) to Voipfone.
>
> Got FTTP working a few days ago - as posted earlier.
>
> But no news on the LL port.
>
> How long do I have? It is 30 days, but from when? If from 5th Oct then
> they better hurry up.
>
> But no news on the LL port.
>
> How long do I have? It is 30 days, but from when? If from 5th Oct then
> they better hurry up.
>
> Should I send a Spec Dely letter to the Voda chief executive? that
> used to work; they had a special department called the Directors'
> Complaints Dept and they dealt with these.
I've seen this before with a LL number from Unicom, sometime in 2014.
> used to work; they had a special department called the Directors'
> Complaints Dept and they dealt with these.
Further confused by Openreach having wired the number to two properties
half a mile apart. Unicom would not release the "BT Retail Fibre
Service" on the number so my customer could not apply for FTTC from the
ISP that I recommended.
This was a small business, which had recently relocated, so had spent
money on new cards, letterheads, etc. with the new phone number.
The only resolution was to apply for a completely new phone number and
FTTC service. So another cost in reprinting all the stationary.
Clearly my customer did not want to have any further relationship with
Unicom.
Do you have the patience to take it up with Ofcom?
--
Graham J
Graham J
Nov 1, 2023, 8:46:44 AM11/1/23
to
Peter wrote:
[snip]
> I am damn sure OR are a lot more involved than is wide knowledge. But
> they deny it. It suits them to keep telling people that they need to
> go through the ISP.
>
> But the amazing thing is that OR read Trustpilot 24/7 and really
> react. I've had an OR guy just now fix the bodged installation done by
> the original FTTP fitter. OTOH TP said they will remove my crappy
> review unless I supply them with photos of the bodges, so there are
> some humans involved behind the scenes!
>
Could you quote the Trustpilot link so we can see the photos as well,
please?
--
Graham J
[snip]
> I am damn sure OR are a lot more involved than is wide knowledge. But
> they deny it. It suits them to keep telling people that they need to
> go through the ISP.
>
> But the amazing thing is that OR read Trustpilot 24/7 and really
> react. I've had an OR guy just now fix the bodged installation done by
> the original FTTP fitter. OTOH TP said they will remove my crappy
> review unless I supply them with photos of the bodges, so there are
> some humans involved behind the scenes!
>
Could you quote the Trustpilot link so we can see the photos as well,
please?
--
Graham J
Graham J
Nov 2, 2023, 6:51:38 AM11/2/23
to
Peter wrote:
> Finally, this job is done.
>
> The LL number came live last night.
>
> So both FTTP and LL # are with Voipfone.
>
> Thanks to everyone here :)
Good work.
Lesson 1: do not use Vodafone - ever!
Lesson 2: Peter - please review your future internet proposals here well
in advance, and take heed of the people who are worried by your suggestions.
--
Graham J
> Finally, this job is done.
>
> The LL number came live last night.
>
> So both FTTP and LL # are with Voipfone.
>
> Thanks to everyone here :)
Good work.
Lesson 1: do not use Vodafone - ever!
Lesson 2: Peter - please review your future internet proposals here well
in advance, and take heed of the people who are worried by your suggestions.
--
Graham J
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