Re: ISDN with ADSL?
Bob Eager
wrote:
> Before I make an ass of myself with a BT salesman who is trying to
> "upgrade" our analogue phone line to ISDN2e, am I right in thinking that
> ADSL will not work over an ISDN connection? (Our analogue phoneline line
> currently has an ADSL connection running over it.) The literature we've
> received doesn't mention it at all, but BT's website seems to suggest that
> you have to downgrade ISDN to analogue to install ADSL, and I've always
> believed that to be the case.
That is correct. Different in other countries, and no doubt one or two
will rant about that and BT!
I have ISDN2e for actual phone, and a POTS line for ADSL.
> Is there any advantage from a voice calls/switchboard point of view to
> converting a two-line analogue phone number to bonded ISDN2e? I assumed at
> first that we might be able to have more than two simultaneous phone calls
> going on it but that doesn't seem to be the case, so I'm wondering why we
> are getting ISDN pushed at us by BT when AFAICT all we needed was a new
> analogue switch (the old one having gone on the blink so it wouldn't
> complete incoming calls).
ISDN gives you lots of control options, I guess. For example, multiple
numbers. Incoming call on one number uses first channel, and incoming
call on another number uses second channel. Numbers are not tied to
channels. There are some nice little ISDN PBXes around. And you don't
have to stop at two numbers.
--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]
Eeyore
Marty Fremen wrote:
> Before I make an ass of myself with a BT salesman who is trying to
> "upgrade" our analogue phone line to ISDN2e
What on earth for ?
> am I right in thinking that ADSL will not work over an ISDN connection?
Yes.
Graham
Graham.
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46FD5D3F...@hotmail.com...
Actually no.
ADSL over an ISDN line is perfectly normal in Germany.
The flavour of ADSL is Annex B, and is not avalable in
the UK.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Jono
> Before I make an ass of myself with a BT salesman who is trying to
> ADSL will not work over an ISDN connection? (Our analogue phoneline line
> currently has an ADSL connection running over it.) The literature we've
> received doesn't mention it at all, but BT's website seems to suggest that
> you have to downgrade ISDN to analogue to install ADSL, and I've always
> believed that to be the case.
Correctlt, in the UK
> Is there any advantage from a voice calls/switchboard point of view to
> converting a two-line analogue phone number to bonded ISDN2e?
If this is what you have at the moment, you must also have a single
line which is carrying your ADSL.
> I assumed at
> first that we might be able to have more than two simultaneous phone calls
> going on it but that doesn't seem to be the case,
Eh? this should be the case with your existing two-line analogue number
and it would certainly be possible and normal with ISN2e.
> so I'm wondering why we
> are getting ISDN pushed at us by BT when AFAICT all we needed was a new
> analogue switch (the old one having gone on the blink so it wouldn't
> complete incoming calls).
That's BT for you. Rentals are dearer, generally & the PBXs are a bit
dearer too.
PS. 3 line, 8 extension Analogue Panasonic PBX circa £300
Jono
Marty Fremen expressed precisely :
> Before I make an ass of myself with a BT salesman who is trying to
> "upgrade" our analogue phone line to ISDN2e, am I right in thinking that
> ADSL will not work over an ISDN connection? (Our analogue phoneline line
> currently has an ADSL connection running over it.) The literature we've
> received doesn't mention it at all, but BT's website seems to suggest that
> you have to downgrade ISDN to analogue to install ADSL, and I've always
> believed that to be the case.
Correct, in the UK
Graham.
"Marty Fremen" <Ma...@fremen.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns99B9D23...@213.239.142.64...
> Before I make an ass of myself with a BT salesman who is trying to
> "upgrade" our analogue phone line to ISDN2e, am I right in thinking that
> ADSL will not work over an ISDN connection? (Our analogue phoneline line
> currently has an ADSL connection running over it.) The literature we've
> received doesn't mention it at all, but BT's website seems to suggest that
> you have to downgrade ISDN to analogue to install ADSL, and I've always
> believed that to be the case.
>
> first that we might be able to have more than two simultaneous phone calls
> are getting ISDN pushed at us by BT when AFAICT all we needed was a new
> analogue switch (the old one having gone on the blink so it wouldn't
> complete incoming calls).
Bonding ISDN means using the two 64kbs bearer channels together to
form a single 128kbs data-link. You wouldn't normally bond
two physical BRI lines together AFAIK.
It may be that a new switch with two BRI's is the way to go, have you got
an analogue fax line that can carry ADSL?
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
kráftéé
> (supersedes <mn.e5127d79a...@blueyonder.invalid>)
>
> Marty Fremen expressed precisely :
>> simultaneous phone calls going on it but that doesn't seem to be
>> the case,
>
> Eh? this should be the case with your existing two-line analogue
> number and it would certainly be possible and normal with ISN2e.
Jono I think you've just shot from the hip & missed by a mile.
1 x ISDN2e & 2 x analogue pots can not carry more than 2 calls at any
one time as both case only have 2 channels (effectively).....
Eeyore
"Graham." wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > Marty Fremen wrote:
> >
> >> Before I make an ass of myself with a BT salesman who is trying to
> >> "upgrade" our analogue phone line to ISDN2e
> >
> > What on earth for ?
> >
> >> am I right in thinking that ADSL will not work over an ISDN connection?
> >
> > Yes.
>
> Actually no.
> ADSL over an ISDN line is perfectly normal in Germany.
This isn't de.telecom.broadband though..
Graham
Jono
Oh aye. silly me. missed the "more than"
kráftéé
Easy done ;-)
Dave Wade
"Marty Fremen" <Ma...@fremen.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns99B9D23...@213.239.142.64...
> ADSL will not work over an ISDN connection? (Our analogue phoneline line
> currently has an ADSL connection running over it.) The literature we've
> received doesn't mention it at all, but BT's website seems to suggest that
> you have to downgrade ISDN to analogue to install ADSL, and I've always
> believed that to be the case.
>
> Is there any advantage from a voice calls/switchboard point of view to
> first that we might be able to have more than two simultaneous phone calls
> are getting ISDN pushed at us by BT when AFAICT all we needed was a new
> analogue switch (the old one having gone on the blink so it wouldn't
> complete incoming calls).
You don't say what you have on your two line system, e.g. how many
extensions, how many users, why your have two lines etc so its hard to give
proper advice. The big advantage of ISDN is that the signalling is carried
over a separate out of band channel and is digital. So whilst on a POTS line
on a single phone you can fiddle many deatures like call waiting, have
multiple numbers by using alternate ring tones, these features don't work
well with a PABX. On the other hand if you have ISDN you can have as many
numbers as you want, so all extensions can have their own inbound numbers.
You can see inbound calls when everything is busy and drop an existing call
if you want.
However I suspect the real issue is that BT don't have a two line analogue
switch on the list to sell you. Perhaps a two line DECT phone would be
better, but I think its more likeley that Voice over IP (VOIP) would be more
appropriate. Try browsing the seg site (www.seg.co.uk) orr aa
http://aaisp.net.uk/ sites and coming back with more specific questions...
Jono
Especially as the OP seemed to be saying he had ADSL on his line then
said it was a two-liner
Graham.
"Jono" <noth...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
news:mn.e5967d792...@blueyonder.invalid...
I have never understood why BT won't provision ADSL in those
circumstances. What is the reason?
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Graham.
"Marty Fremen" <Ma...@fremen.invalid> wrote in message
> Jono <noth...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Especially as the OP seemed to be saying he had ADSL on his line then
>> said it was a two-liner
>
> 100% sure what is connected to what. Basically there are (AFAICT) 3
> different phone circuits (inc. alarm) and the main phone no. has two lines
> (so 4 lines in all). We also have 2 ADSL connections, and my understanding
> is that one of these is carried by the 2x POTS line, the other by our fax
> line. (The reason for 2xADSL is IT policy argy bargy which forbids mixing
> a
> special VPN link with the intranet used by "us plebs". I assume the ADSL
> is
> tapped off before the PBX box, but I'm not really well up on phone
> connections etc hence my queries.
No that's four circuits, not three.
The PABX will have two physical lines connected to it albeit
with same phone number. The consensus here
is neither of these two lines will have the ADSL
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
kráftéé
Multiple lines/PABXs are apparently not compatable with ADSL. Can't
think of any physical reason at all & would hazard a guess at it being
something to do with billing/accounts...
Eeyore
Marty Fremen wrote:
> "Graham." <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >
> > It may be that a new switch with two BRI's is the way to go, have you got
> > an analogue fax line that can carry ADSL?
>
> We have a phone line for the alarm that might be used, but I don't know if
> there's any compatibility issues (I don't even know if it has an actual
> phone socket or is hard wired) so I'd want to be sure there was some
> advantage to ISDN2e over a 2xPOTS PBX before messing with that. One
> possible reason I suppose would be if ISDN PBXs were simply better or more
> flexible than analogue ones. This is a typical small office where you have
> one phone number with two lines, these lines being shared by three people
> via 4 or 5 extensions.
>
> As to why ISDN is being recommended to us, the sales patter was "analogue
> is old hat, you ought to go digital".
Marketing gobbledegook.
> Given that ISDN is old hat and we
> already use ADSL for email etc, I am inclined to translate this as
> "luvverly sales commission! Save a dying protocol from extinction!". Am I
> wrong?
I think you're spot on.
Graham
kráftéé
>> with same phone number. The consensus here
>> is neither of these two lines will have the ADSL
>
> alarm line (which I seriously doubt),
It could be as RedCare is now fully compatable, whilst there are
products out there in the market place which will easily filter an
analogue alarm panel with little detriment to security, but I also
doubt it
>that suggests there is an
> exta line that no-one was aware of. This is not impossible, since
> the ADSL in question (the VPN one) is actually paid for by another
> organisation so we don't see the bills for it, but I would be
> surprised if they had had an extra line installed for the exclusive
> use of the ADSL rather than using an existing line.
Don't be you may be suprised on how many companies pay to have a DSL
link to another company (line rental, service costs, the lot) . I
could take you to firms where rack after rack of circuits are not paid
for by the company you visit but by some external firm...
>Trouble is the
> cabling is such a mess, with cables and mini-trunking going all
> over the place through walls etc that it's almost impossible to
> tell what is connected to what.
Welcome to the world of telecoms, 2 colleagues of mine, on friday,
spent all day installing 5 lines into a new establishment but most of
the time was actually spent removing all the old telco equipment,
which had built up over the years, at the new owners request, not to
mention the number of lines which were still working (& still getting
paid for ????) from the past occupiers.....
>
> If the situation hasn't been resolved by the time I go in next
> week, I might try a 17070 ringback test on all the sockets, that
> would surely settle the question of what lines the ADSL connections
> are really on.
Make that 2 of you one to watch the dratted things whilst the other
does the testing.....you never know......
By the way use 1470 17070, just to be on the safe side as that would
force the line to give it's CLI. 17070 is blocked on many commercial
lines nowadays,especially if they are just for specific purposes, like
providing DSL.
Bob Eager
wrote:
> That does sound useful, it seems to suggest people could call an
> extension directly without going via reception which would be useful,
> however the salesperson has said nothing to us about extra numbers,
> would these cost us extra or do we just pay for the quantity of lines?
> Although I (sort of) support the IT at this office and can confgure a
> router etc, I am afraid that phones and PABXs are just black boxes to me, I
> know nothing at all about them.
We have an ISDN PABX at home. We have five numbers, the additional four
costing a small quarterly rental (and a setup charge). The PABX can be
configured, for each number, to ring all lines, some lines, or one line
(this means that sons can have private numbers in their rooms). Each
number has its own voicemail box. We pay for one ISDN2e circuit (two
channels); each channel can be used by any number and any line. So
there's a maximum of two incoming/outgoing calls at a time (2 'lines').
The PABX was about 60 quid (used) on eBay!
Ivor Jones
news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk
[snip]
: : We have an ISDN PABX at home. We have five numbers, the
: : additional four costing a small quarterly rental (and a
: : setup charge). The PABX can be configured, for each
: : number, to ring all lines, some lines, or one line
: : (this means that sons can have private numbers in their
: : rooms). Each number has its own voicemail box. We pay
: : for one ISDN2e circuit (two channels); each channel can
: : be used by any number and any line. So there's a
: : maximum of two incoming/outgoing calls at a time (2
: : 'lines').
: :
: : The PABX was about 60 quid (used) on eBay!
You don't need an ISDN PABX to do that, I do exactly the same with 5 VoIP
"lines" and a London 16 analogue PABX (also off eBay for a similar sum).
Ivor
Bob Eager
wrote:
I'm sure you do. But I don't have your obsession with VoIP.
Jono
>>
>> Especially as the OP seemed to be saying he had ADSL on his line then said
>> it was a two-liner
>
> I have never understood why BT won't provision ADSL in those
> circumstances. What is the reason?
They can more easliy sell additional (not required) single PSTN lines?
Jono
Graham. explained :
>>
>> Especially as the OP seemed to be saying he had ADSL on his line then said
>> it was a two-liner
>
> I have never understood why BT won't provision ADSL in those
> circumstances. What is the reason?
They can more easily sell additional (not required) single PSTN lines?
Ivor Jones
"Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk
: : On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:19:46 UTC, "Ivor Jones"
: : <iv...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
: :
: : : "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
: : : news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk
: : :
: : : [snip]
: : :
: : : : : We have an ISDN PABX at home. We have five
: : : : : numbers, the additional four costing a small
: : : : : quarterly rental (and a setup charge). The PABX
: : : : : can be configured, for each number, to ring all
: : : : : lines, some lines, or one line (this means that
: : : : : sons can have private numbers in their rooms).
: : : : : Each number has its own voicemail box. We pay for
: : : : : one ISDN2e circuit (two channels); each channel
: : : : : can be used by any number and any line. So
: : : : : there's a maximum of two incoming/outgoing calls
: : : : : at a time (2 'lines').
: : : : :
: : : : : The PABX was about 60 quid (used) on eBay!
: : :
: : : You don't need an ISDN PABX to do that, I do exactly
: : : the same with 5 VoIP "lines" and a London 16 analogue
: : : PABX (also off eBay for a similar sum).
: :
: : I'm sure you do. But I don't have your obsession with
: : VoIP.
Not obsession, interest. It's cheaper, too :-)
Ivor
Bob Eager
wrote:
Possibly it is for you. I shall be setting up a hybrid soon...POTS, ISDN
and VoIP....
Ivor Jones
[snip]
: : : : : : : : The PABX was about 60 quid (used) on eBay!
: : : : : :
: : : : : : You don't need an ISDN PABX to do that, I do
: : : : : : exactly the same with 5 VoIP "lines" and a
: : : : : : London 16 analogue PABX (also off eBay for a
: : : : : : similar sum).
: : : : :
: : : : : I'm sure you do. But I don't have your obsession
: : : : : with VoIP.
: : :
: : : Not obsession, interest. It's cheaper, too :-)
: :
: : Possibly it is for you. I shall be setting up a hybrid
: : soon...POTS, ISDN and VoIP....
A very common practice in Germany.
Ivor
Bob Eager
wrote:
> "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
In someone's house?
Ivor Jones
"Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk
: : On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:27:57 UTC, "Ivor Jones"
: : <iv...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
: :
: : : "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
: : : news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk
: : :
: : : [snip]
: : :
: : : : : : : : : : : The PABX was about 60 quid (used) on
: : : : : : : : : : : eBay!
: : : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : : You don't need an ISDN PABX to do that, I
: : : : : : : : : do exactly the same with 5 VoIP "lines"
: : : : : : : : : and a London 16 analogue PABX (also off
: : : : : : : : : eBay for a similar sum).
: : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : I'm sure you do. But I don't have your
: : : : : : : : obsession with VoIP.
: : : : : :
: : : : : : Not obsession, interest. It's cheaper, too :-)
: : : : :
: : : : : Possibly it is for you. I shall be setting up a
: : : : : hybrid soon...POTS, ISDN and VoIP....
: : :
: : : A very common practice in Germany.
: :
: : In someone's house?
I believe so, the AVM Fritz!Box models were based on it.
Ivor
Bob Eager
wrote:
> : : : : : Possibly it is for you. I shall be setting up a
> : : : : : hybrid soon...POTS, ISDN and VoIP....
> : : :
> : : : A very common practice in Germany.
> : :
> : : In someone's house?
>
> I believe so, the AVM Fritz!Box models were based on it.
So why would they need POTS as well?
R. Mark Clayton
"Marty Fremen" <Ma...@fremen.invalid> wrote in message
> Before I make an ass of myself with a BT salesman who is trying to
> "upgrade" our analogue phone line to ISDN2e, am I right in thinking that
> ADSL will not work over an ISDN connection?
BT WON'T supply it in the UK, although it has been available for years in
Germany. BT tell you is can't be done. This is normal BT Loose
Interpretation of English and Standards (LIES).
> (Our analogue phoneline line
> currently has an ADSL connection running over it.) The literature we've
> received doesn't mention it at all, but BT's website seems to suggest that
> you have to downgrade ISDN to analogue to install ADSL, and I've always
> believed that to be the case.
It is.
>
> Is there any advantage from a voice calls/switchboard point of view to
> converting a two-line analogue phone number to bonded ISDN2e? I assumed at
> first that we might be able to have more than two simultaneous phone calls
> going on it but that doesn't seem to be the case, so I'm wondering why we
> are getting ISDN pushed at us by BT when AFAICT all we needed was a new
> analogue switch (the old one having gone on the blink so it wouldn't
> complete incoming calls).
Use ISDN for your PBX and have a PSTN line for your fax, emergencies and
ADSL.
Bob Eager
<nospam...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "Marty Fremen" <Ma...@fremen.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Xns99B9D23...@213.239.142.64...
> > Before I make an ass of myself with a BT salesman who is trying to
> > "upgrade" our analogue phone line to ISDN2e, am I right in thinking that
> > ADSL will not work over an ISDN connection?
>
> BT WON'T supply it in the UK, although it has been available for years in
> Germany. BT tell you is can't be done. This is normal BT Loose
> Interpretation of English and Standards (LIES).
I said somebody would insist on a rant!
> Use ISDN for your PBX and have a PSTN line for your fax, emergencies and
> ADSL.
Exactly. As I have...
Graham.
"R. Mark Clayton" <nospam...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:M4adnXOQRp44KGPb...@bt.com...
>
> "Marty Fremen" <Ma...@fremen.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Xns99B9D23...@213.239.142.64...
>> Before I make an ass of myself with a BT salesman who is trying to
>> "upgrade" our analogue phone line to ISDN2e, am I right in thinking that
>> ADSL will not work over an ISDN connection?
>
> BT WON'T supply it in the UK, although it has been available for years in
> Germany. BT tell you is can't be done. This is normal BT Loose
> Interpretation of English and Standards (LIES).
I think I read somewhere that although ISDN2e and POTS+Annex A can
happily co-exist in the same cable, Annex A and Annex B make poor
bed-fellows.
Might be BT propaganda though.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Dave Wade
> On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:27:57 UTC, "Ivor Jones" <iv...@despammed.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>> news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> : : : : : : : : The PABX was about 60 quid (used) on eBay!
>> : : : : : :
>> : : : : : : You don't need an ISDN PABX to do that, I do
>> : : : : : : exactly the same with 5 VoIP "lines" and a
>> : : : : : : London 16 analogue PABX (also off eBay for a
>> : : : : : : similar sum).
>> : : : : :
>> : : : : : I'm sure you do. But I don't have your obsession
>> : : : : : with VoIP.
>> : : :
>> : : : Not obsession, interest. It's cheaper, too :-)
>> : :
>> : : Possibly it is for you. I shall be setting up a hybrid
>> : : soon...POTS, ISDN and VoIP....
>>
>> A very common practice in Germany.
>
> In someone's house?
>
Yes, in Germany you generally get ISDN when you get ADSL....
Bob Eager
>
> "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
> > On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:27:57 UTC, "Ivor Jones" <iv...@despammed.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> >> news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> : : : : : : : : The PABX was about 60 quid (used) on eBay!
> >> : : : : : :
> >> : : : : : : You don't need an ISDN PABX to do that, I do
> >> : : : : : : exactly the same with 5 VoIP "lines" and a
> >> : : : : : : London 16 analogue PABX (also off eBay for a
> >> : : : : : : similar sum).
> >> : : : : :
> >> : : : : : I'm sure you do. But I don't have your obsession
> >> : : : : : with VoIP.
> >> : : :
> >> : : : Not obsession, interest. It's cheaper, too :-)
> >> : :
> >> : : Possibly it is for you. I shall be setting up a hybrid
> >> : : soon...POTS, ISDN and VoIP....
> >>
> >> A very common practice in Germany.
> >
> > In someone's house?
>
> Yes, in Germany you generally get ISDN when you get ADSL....
Yes, but POTS as well? This 'very common practice' surely doesn't
include that as well, as Ivor implies.
dennis@home
"Dave Wade" <g8...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:X-ednT2BubPeU2Lb...@eclipse.net.uk...
>
> "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:27:57 UTC, "Ivor Jones" <iv...@despammed.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>>> news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> : : : : : : : : The PABX was about 60 quid (used) on eBay!
>>> : : : : : :
>>> : : : : : : You don't need an ISDN PABX to do that, I do
>>> : : : : : : exactly the same with 5 VoIP "lines" and a
>>> : : : : : : London 16 analogue PABX (also off eBay for a
>>> : : : : : : similar sum).
>>> : : : : :
>>> : : : : : I'm sure you do. But I don't have your obsession
>>> : : : : : with VoIP.
>>> : : :
>>> : : : Not obsession, interest. It's cheaper, too :-)
>>> : :
>>> : : Possibly it is for you. I shall be setting up a hybrid
>>> : : soon...POTS, ISDN and VoIP....
>>>
>>> A very common practice in Germany.
>>
>> In someone's house?
>>
>
> Yes, in Germany you generally get ISDN when you get ADSL....
AIUI line lengths are less in Germany so ISDN could be delivered to most
people.
In the UK line lengths are longer so it wouldn't be possible to supply ISDN
to as much of the population.
The result is Germany adopted ISDN and the UK stayed with POTS.
The result is Germany has ADSL + ISDN and the UK ADSL + POTS and BT is not
going to bother supporting the few ISDN users that want ADSL.
kráftéé
There is a problem with cross talk if you run both systems in the same
network as well.
Mugwump
says...
dennis@home
"kráftéé" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message
news:_6Cdnd7hS723gZ3a...@bt.com...
>>> Yes, in Germany you generally get ISDN when you get ADSL....
>>
>> AIUI line lengths are less in Germany so ISDN could be delivered to
>> most people.
>> In the UK line lengths are longer so it wouldn't be possible to
>> supply ISDN to as much of the population.
>> The result is Germany adopted ISDN and the UK stayed with POTS.
>> The result is Germany has ADSL + ISDN and the UK ADSL + POTS and BT
>> is not going to bother supporting the few ISDN users that want ADSL.
>
> There is a problem with cross talk if you run both systems in the same
> network as well.
>
The ISDN scheme works fine with POTS and ISDN.
Or are you referring to cross talk between ISDN users which does happen.