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Re: New fibre duct being laid around Brighton area - what is it?
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Ivan Plapp
Apr 17, 2022, 7:15:33 PM4/17/22
to
On 17 Apr 2022 at 16:05:26 BST, "Peter" <occassional...@nospam.co.uk>
wrote:
> It is hex cross-section orange stuff, with 7 channels.
Orange ducting would be for street lighting and / or traffic lights
--
Is something brilliant happening?
wrote:
> It is hex cross-section orange stuff, with 7 channels.
Orange ducting would be for street lighting and / or traffic lights
--
Is something brilliant happening?
Ivan Plapp
Apr 19, 2022, 12:52:31 AM4/19/22
to
On 18 Apr 2022 at 22:43:05 BST, "Peter" <occassional...@nospam.co.uk>
wrote:
> On it it says
>
> RADIUS MINIGLIDE 7-WAY X 14X10MM DB 220713 LINE32 0179M
>
> Google finds it:
> http://radiustelecoms.com/products/fttx-microtubing-systems/miniglide-microtubing/
Could be CityFibre then
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/02/cityfibre-start-80m-fttp-broadband-rollout-in-brighton-and-hove.html
wrote:
> On it it says
>
> RADIUS MINIGLIDE 7-WAY X 14X10MM DB 220713 LINE32 0179M
>
> Google finds it:
> http://radiustelecoms.com/products/fttx-microtubing-systems/miniglide-microtubing/
Could be CityFibre then
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/02/cityfibre-start-80m-fttp-broadband-rollout-in-brighton-and-hove.html
Andy Burns
Apr 19, 2022, 4:30:40 AM4/19/22
to
Peter wrote:
> One curious thing is that they aren't connecting to the local village
> phone exchange, but perhaps they would not be.
4/5ths of them will be closing, they'll connect somewhere bigger and further
away, not necessarily a BT exchange at all.
> One curious thing is that they aren't connecting to the local village
> phone exchange, but perhaps they would not be.
4/5ths of them will be closing, they'll connect somewhere bigger and further
away, not necessarily a BT exchange at all.
notya...@gmail.com
Apr 19, 2022, 7:17:52 AM4/19/22
to
Switching will be done in a main exchange miles away, but such has been the advances in electronics that an exchange [e.g. BT System X] that would have filled a building forty years ago, will now probably not even fill a rack.
Andy Burns
Apr 19, 2022, 7:43:36 AM4/19/22
to
notya...@gmail.com wrote:
> There may still be a concentrator, tucked away in a quiet corner, probably near where the local exchange was.
>
> Switching will be done in a main exchange miles away, but such has been the advances in electronics that an exchange [e.g. BT System X] that would have filled a building forty years ago, will now probably not even fill a rack.
But why would an altnet provider want to go anywhere near BT? Presumably they
> There may still be a concentrator, tucked away in a quiet corner, probably near where the local exchange was.
>
> Switching will be done in a main exchange miles away, but such has been the advances in electronics that an exchange [e.g. BT System X] that would have filled a building forty years ago, will now probably not even fill a rack.
would want the smallest number of headend sites they can get away with and can
provide their own backhaul and voip handover in any convenient datacentre?
Mike Humphrey
Apr 19, 2022, 8:58:14 AM4/19/22
to
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:05:26 +0100, Peter wrote:
> They talk about "gigabit" speeds but surely this depends on your
> package. At work, down the road, on A&Arnold, FTTP, I get 80 down and 30
> up. How can this suddenly go up to gigabit speeds? Is it a different
> fibre network altogether, or just a different way of packaging it (1
> gbps with a very low FUP, versus our 80/30 with no (afaik) FUP).
The Openreach FTTP kit is gigabit speed already. It's shared with up to
30 other houses, and the throughput is capped. If you pay more money they
will increase the cap and/or give you a fibre shared with less (or no)
other houses.
Mike
> They talk about "gigabit" speeds but surely this depends on your
> package. At work, down the road, on A&Arnold, FTTP, I get 80 down and 30
> up. How can this suddenly go up to gigabit speeds? Is it a different
> fibre network altogether, or just a different way of packaging it (1
> gbps with a very low FUP, versus our 80/30 with no (afaik) FUP).
The Openreach FTTP kit is gigabit speed already. It's shared with up to
30 other houses, and the throughput is capped. If you pay more money they
will increase the cap and/or give you a fibre shared with less (or no)
other houses.
Mike
Martin Brown
Apr 19, 2022, 2:24:14 PM4/19/22
to
On 19/04/2022 09:22, Peter wrote:
> I don't think it is Cityfibre. This isn't Brighton city itself. This
> is in the villages just north of it.
My local exchange was bypassed for the FTTP (which I now have).
The optic fibres run continuously for about 15 miles. I don't know what
the upper limit on range to exchange is
> We are on Vodafone broadband.
>
>
>
> Ivan Plapp <ipl...@channel7.television> wrote
Regards,
Martin Brown
> I don't think it is Cityfibre. This isn't Brighton city itself. This
> is in the villages just north of it.
>
> One curious thing is that they aren't connecting to the local village
> phone exchange, but perhaps they would not be.
They go back to a much larger county town scale exchange.
> One curious thing is that they aren't connecting to the local village
> phone exchange, but perhaps they would not be.
My local exchange was bypassed for the FTTP (which I now have).
The optic fibres run continuously for about 15 miles. I don't know what
the upper limit on range to exchange is
> We are on Vodafone broadband.
>
>
>
> Ivan Plapp <ipl...@channel7.television> wrote
Martin Brown
Andy Burns
Apr 19, 2022, 2:57:07 PM4/19/22
to
Peter wrote:
> Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote
> Only possible if copper is abandoned - the village phones have to
> connect somewhere :)
Which it will be (I'm not sure I believe the current timescale of 2025).
But if you move to this new fibre provider, you can guarantee they won't supply
a copper phone line, either they'll provide a voip service that runs from a
phone socket on the back of their router, or they'll tell you to get a voip
service from A.N.Other and use an ATA.
> Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote
> connect somewhere :)
Which it will be (I'm not sure I believe the current timescale of 2025).
But if you move to this new fibre provider, you can guarantee they won't supply
a copper phone line, either they'll provide a voip service that runs from a
phone socket on the back of their router, or they'll tell you to get a voip
service from A.N.Other and use an ATA.
Andy Burns
Apr 19, 2022, 3:04:16 PM4/19/22
to
Peter wrote:
> Isn't fibre point to point
it can be, but individual households won't want to be paying *that* much
> or can they multidrop it?
it can be passively split, and on top of that you can run multiple "colours" of
light down it at the same time, and/or time slice it, that way you can use a
single run most of the way from the headend, which branches out as it reaches
the customers to run many connections ... depends which ISP how they actually do it.
> Isn't fibre point to point
it can be, but individual households won't want to be paying *that* much
> or can they multidrop it?
it can be passively split, and on top of that you can run multiple "colours" of
light down it at the same time, and/or time slice it, that way you can use a
single run most of the way from the headend, which branches out as it reaches
the customers to run many connections ... depends which ISP how they actually do it.
Tweed
Apr 19, 2022, 4:04:46 PM4/19/22
to
do it, not the ISP. OpenReach, CityFibre etc define how the optical network
works. (Sometimes they are one and the same but both OpenReach and
CityFibre act as wholesalers to the likes of BT, Zen,A&A etc)
Andy Burns
Apr 19, 2022, 4:35:12 PM4/19/22
to
Peter wrote:
> There must be special solutions for VOIP to POTS so an existing PBX
That's where I mentioned an ATA (analogue telephone adapter)
> There must be special solutions for VOIP to POTS so an existing PBX
That's where I mentioned an ATA (analogue telephone adapter)
Graham J
Apr 20, 2022, 3:14:11 AM4/20/22
to
Peter wrote:
[snip]
>
> At work, A&A, we have SNOM D315 VOIP/POE phones and had loads of
> trouble with it, but that's another story.
Interested to hear that story - I have some SNOM 300 phones and the
power input connectors on the old ones break off the PCB.
>
> There must be special solutions for VOIP to POTS so an existing PBX
> (or just a single phone) can be retained.
>
I think some PABXs have a VOIP input module, which would solve your problem.
--
Graham J
[snip]
>
> At work, A&A, we have SNOM D315 VOIP/POE phones and had loads of
> trouble with it, but that's another story.
Interested to hear that story - I have some SNOM 300 phones and the
power input connectors on the old ones break off the PCB.
>
> There must be special solutions for VOIP to POTS so an existing PBX
>
I think some PABXs have a VOIP input module, which would solve your problem.
--
Graham J
Martin Brown
Apr 20, 2022, 3:56:10 AM4/20/22
to
On 19/04/2022 19:46, Peter wrote:
>
> Mike Humphrey <ma...@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote
> That's funny because the local coordinator was telling everyone they
> will get gigabit speeds :) I said to him I am on 80/30 with A&A for 40
> quid a month (which almost no private person will pay) so where will
> this amazing speed come from :)
The physical fibre and its hardware is capable of much faster than that.
They do get gigabit speeds (well 1GB t least) but they only get the
fraction of it that they have paid for!
You are buying a timeshare of a multiplexed fibre line shared across
many other customers. Your modem receives everything at full speed but
can only decode the packets that are specifically addressed to you.
Using the BT full fibre to premises lines BT will sell you:
"Full Fibre 100" ~150Mbps[100/30] for £36/pcm
"Full Fibre 500" ~500Mbps[425/73] for £46/pcm
"Full Fibre 900" ~900Mbps[700/110] for £56/pcm
(if you are daft enough to pay list price)
https://www.bt.com/products/broadband/deals
Numbers in brackets are their stay fast guarantee. I decided to have 99%
of my theoretical max speed on the cheaper 100 service instead of paying
extra to only get 66% of the Fibre 500 (under the stay fast guarantee).
When buying full fibre broadband and upgrading from some poxy half baked
barely working ADSL line ask for the service below the one you really
want and then "reluctantly" let the sales droid up-sell you to the one
you want at a discount. The more you hesitate about it the better the
price you will get. Sales droid gets brownie points and you will get a
much better deal - what's not to like?
Never do it on the website where you will pay full sucker's price.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
>
> Mike Humphrey <ma...@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote
> will get gigabit speeds :) I said to him I am on 80/30 with A&A for 40
> quid a month (which almost no private person will pay) so where will
> this amazing speed come from :)
The physical fibre and its hardware is capable of much faster than that.
They do get gigabit speeds (well 1GB t least) but they only get the
fraction of it that they have paid for!
You are buying a timeshare of a multiplexed fibre line shared across
many other customers. Your modem receives everything at full speed but
can only decode the packets that are specifically addressed to you.
Using the BT full fibre to premises lines BT will sell you:
"Full Fibre 100" ~150Mbps[100/30] for £36/pcm
"Full Fibre 500" ~500Mbps[425/73] for £46/pcm
"Full Fibre 900" ~900Mbps[700/110] for £56/pcm
(if you are daft enough to pay list price)
https://www.bt.com/products/broadband/deals
Numbers in brackets are their stay fast guarantee. I decided to have 99%
of my theoretical max speed on the cheaper 100 service instead of paying
extra to only get 66% of the Fibre 500 (under the stay fast guarantee).
When buying full fibre broadband and upgrading from some poxy half baked
barely working ADSL line ask for the service below the one you really
want and then "reluctantly" let the sales droid up-sell you to the one
you want at a discount. The more you hesitate about it the better the
price you will get. Sales droid gets brownie points and you will get a
much better deal - what's not to like?
Never do it on the website where you will pay full sucker's price.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Martin Brown
Apr 20, 2022, 4:21:19 AM4/20/22
to
The physical fibre is already incredibly fast and you are in effect
buying (the use of) a multiple of time slot packets available on it.
I'm on what BT sells as 100Mbps guaranteed (haggled to under £30/pcm).
It has a peak speed of 150Mbps and delivers 149.9M down and 30M up.
Compared to wet string ADSL 2+ over copper which maxxed out at 5M/1M for
me and more typically around here 2M/448k it is a *huge* improvement.
I also got a free months trial of the 500Mbps service which on my long
rural line (which has already been chewed by rats once despite its
kevlar protective layer) could only deliver 330Mbps down and 20Mbps up.
(that is slightly uncertain as systematic errors in the benchmarking
sites and browser software become a problem at these sorts of speeds)
I honestly don't see how blown fibre in conduits can be reliable unless
they have found some cunning way to keep rodents out entirely. We used
to flood our cable ducts with dry nitrogen to prevent them staying
alive. I can't see that scaling to the BT network though.
It may be that rodents only like to sharpen their teeth on the
insulation of conventionally covered cable but I wouldn't like to bet on it.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Graham J
Apr 20, 2022, 5:13:04 AM4/20/22
to
Martin Brown wrote:
[snip]
>
> I honestly don't see how blown fibre in conduits can be reliable unless
> they have found some cunning way to keep rodents out entirely. We used
> to flood our cable ducts with dry nitrogen to prevent them staying
> alive. I can't see that scaling to the BT network though.
I think all BT cables were traditionally pressurised with dry nitrogen.
Before the days of PVC insulation the individual copper wires were
sheathed in paper, and in the dry atmosphere were therefore perfectly
well insulated.
The nitrogen pressure was monitored inthe exchange, and any drop led to
an investigation of the leak.
I think the cable sheathing might have been metal, and junctions were
sealed with solder.
--
Graham J
[snip]
>
> I honestly don't see how blown fibre in conduits can be reliable unless
> they have found some cunning way to keep rodents out entirely. We used
> to flood our cable ducts with dry nitrogen to prevent them staying
> alive. I can't see that scaling to the BT network though.
Before the days of PVC insulation the individual copper wires were
sheathed in paper, and in the dry atmosphere were therefore perfectly
well insulated.
The nitrogen pressure was monitored inthe exchange, and any drop led to
an investigation of the leak.
I think the cable sheathing might have been metal, and junctions were
sealed with solder.
--
Graham J
Java Jive
Apr 20, 2022, 5:56:50 AM4/20/22
to
On 20/04/2022 08:56, Martin Brown wrote:
>
> ask for the service below the one you really want and then "reluctantly"
> let the sales droid up-sell you to the one you want at a discount. The
> more you hesitate about it the better the price you will get. Sales
> droid gets brownie points and you will get a much better deal - what's
> not to like?
What's not to like is that both the ISP and you are actually being
>
> ask for the service below the one you really want and then "reluctantly"
> let the sales droid up-sell you to the one you want at a discount. The
> more you hesitate about it the better the price you will get. Sales
> droid gets brownie points and you will get a much better deal - what's
> not to like?
dishonest - the ISP should give the same deal on their website as they
do over the phone and you shouldn't be expecting to get a better deal by
haggling - and further you're guaranteeing that towards the end of the
contract you'll have to go through it all again, and are thus
perpetuating the problem of the market being allowed to degenerate into
little better than a back-street bazaar.
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
notya...@gmail.com
Apr 20, 2022, 6:56:24 AM4/20/22
to
On Tuesday, 19 April 2022 at 19:24:14 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 19/04/2022 09:22, Peter wrote:
> > I don't think it is Cityfibre. This isn't Brighton city itself. This
> > is in the villages just north of it.
> >
> > One curious thing is that they aren't connecting to the local village
> > phone exchange, but perhaps they would not be.
> They go back to a much larger county town scale exchange.
> My local exchange was bypassed for the FTTP (which I now have).
>
> The optic fibres run continuously for about 15 miles. I don't know what
> the upper limit on range to exchange is
Single mode fibre ~100km. Depends a bit on the data rate.
> On 19/04/2022 09:22, Peter wrote:
> > I don't think it is Cityfibre. This isn't Brighton city itself. This
> > is in the villages just north of it.
> >
> > One curious thing is that they aren't connecting to the local village
> > phone exchange, but perhaps they would not be.
> They go back to a much larger county town scale exchange.
> My local exchange was bypassed for the FTTP (which I now have).
>
> The optic fibres run continuously for about 15 miles. I don't know what
> the upper limit on range to exchange is
MB
Apr 20, 2022, 10:51:12 AM4/20/22
to
On 20/04/2022 10:12, Graham J wrote:
> I think all BT cables were traditionally pressurised with dry nitrogen.
> Before the days of PVC insulation the individual copper wires were
> sheathed in paper, and in the dry atmosphere were therefore perfectly
> well insulated.
I don't think the use of Nitrogen is anything to do with killing
> I think all BT cables were traditionally pressurised with dry nitrogen.
> Before the days of PVC insulation the individual copper wires were
> sheathed in paper, and in the dry atmosphere were therefore perfectly
> well insulated.
rodents. It was often used on antenna system where little chance of
rodents.
Dehydrators tend to used more but Nitrogen has the advantage in the
field that it does not need any power.
Traditionally if BT have a leak on a cable or run self-burying cable
temporarily, they just leave with a bottle of Nitrogen connected to the
cable.
Abandoned_Trolley
Apr 20, 2022, 11:17:26 AM4/20/22
to
On 20/04/2022 15:51, MB wrote:
> On 20/04/2022 10:12, Graham J wrote:
>> I think all BT cables were traditionally pressurised with dry nitrogen.
>> Before the days of PVC insulation the individual copper wires were
>> sheathed in paper, and in the dry atmosphere were therefore perfectly
>> well insulated.
>
> I don't think the use of Nitrogen is anything to do with killing
> rodents. It was often used on antenna system where little chance of
> rodents.
>
I dont know if the cables were pressurised with nitrogen or just dry air
> On 20/04/2022 10:12, Graham J wrote:
>> I think all BT cables were traditionally pressurised with dry nitrogen.
>> Before the days of PVC insulation the individual copper wires were
>> sheathed in paper, and in the dry atmosphere were therefore perfectly
>> well insulated.
>
> I don't think the use of Nitrogen is anything to do with killing
> rodents. It was often used on antenna system where little chance of
> rodents.
>
- but they were definitely still using paper insulation when I was an
apprentice, and the paper was definitely getting eaten by rodents.
> Dehydrators tend to used more but Nitrogen has the advantage in the
> field that it does not need any power.
systems for waveguide pressurisation, and as there was no gas cylinder
involved I am assuming that those must have been just pushing dry air in
to the waveguide.
They also supplied reusable / rechargeable dessicant cartidges for
smaller installations.
Now that most of the radio systems are mounted in a box behind the
antenna these systems are few and far between
>
> Traditionally if BT have a leak on a cable or run self-burying cable
> temporarily, they just leave with a bottle of Nitrogen connected to the
> cable.
>
>
random signature text inserted here
Martin Brown
Apr 21, 2022, 4:28:12 AM4/21/22
to
On 20/04/2022 10:56, Java Jive wrote:
> On 20/04/2022 08:56, Martin Brown wrote:
>>
>> ask for the service below the one you really want and then
>> "reluctantly" let the sales droid up-sell you to the one you want at a
>> discount. The more you hesitate about it the better the price you will
>> get. Sales droid gets brownie points and you will get a much better
>> deal - what's not to like?
>
> What's not to like is that both the ISP and you are actually being
> dishonest - the ISP should give the same deal on their website as they
> do over the phone and you shouldn't be expecting to get a better deal by
> haggling - and further you're guaranteeing that towards the end of the
> contract you'll have to go through it all again, and are thus
> perpetuating the problem of the market being allowed to degenerate into
> little better than a back-street bazaar.
Why on earth would they do that? Inertia selling works to their
> On 20/04/2022 08:56, Martin Brown wrote:
>>
>> ask for the service below the one you really want and then
>> "reluctantly" let the sales droid up-sell you to the one you want at a
>> discount. The more you hesitate about it the better the price you will
>> get. Sales droid gets brownie points and you will get a much better
>> deal - what's not to like?
>
> What's not to like is that both the ISP and you are actually being
> dishonest - the ISP should give the same deal on their website as they
> do over the phone and you shouldn't be expecting to get a better deal by
> haggling - and further you're guaranteeing that towards the end of the
> contract you'll have to go through it all again, and are thus
> perpetuating the problem of the market being allowed to degenerate into
> little better than a back-street bazaar.
advantage - even more so if you do it online and pay top whack!
The ISPs, supermarkets, insurance and utility companies have made it so
that serial disloyalty pays and if you don't ask you don't get.
It is pretty much law of the jungle and has been since it started.
I don't make the rules but once I discover them I will always use them
to my advantage.
Willing seller willing buyer - if you look like you are about to walk
away and so they will lose a contract then they tend to be a lot more
accommodating. If you don't talk to customer retention every couple of
years with a serious threat to leave for a competitor then you will be
ripped off. Renewals have no leeway at all to negotiate sensible deals.
Competition is supposed to sort all this stuff out but most people are
not prepared to jump through all the hoops. Inertia selling works.
Most people are not prepared to do their homework and then haggle.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Java Jive
Apr 21, 2022, 8:07:52 AM4/21/22
to
On 21/04/2022 09:28, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 20/04/2022 10:56, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 20/04/2022 08:56, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> ask for the service below the one you really want and then
>>> "reluctantly" let the sales droid up-sell you to the one you want at
>>> a discount. The more you hesitate about it the better the price you
>>> will get. Sales droid gets brownie points and you will get a much
>>> better deal - what's not to like?
>>
>> What's not to like is that both the ISP and you are actually being
>> dishonest - the ISP should give the same deal on their website as
>> they do over the phone and you shouldn't be expecting to get a better
>> deal by haggling - and further you're guaranteeing that towards the
>> end of the contract you'll have to go through it all again, and are
>> thus perpetuating the problem of the market being allowed to
>> degenerate into little better than a back-street bazaar.
>
> Why on earth would they do that? Inertia selling works to their
> advantage - even more so if you do it online and pay top whack!
Which is exactly why at the end of your contract you'll have to go
> On 20/04/2022 10:56, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 20/04/2022 08:56, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> ask for the service below the one you really want and then
>>> "reluctantly" let the sales droid up-sell you to the one you want at
>>> a discount. The more you hesitate about it the better the price you
>>> will get. Sales droid gets brownie points and you will get a much
>>> better deal - what's not to like?
>>
>> What's not to like is that both the ISP and you are actually being
>> dishonest - the ISP should give the same deal on their website as
>> they do over the phone and you shouldn't be expecting to get a better
>> deal by haggling - and further you're guaranteeing that towards the
>> end of the contract you'll have to go through it all again, and are
>> thus perpetuating the problem of the market being allowed to
>> degenerate into little better than a back-street bazaar.
>
> Why on earth would they do that? Inertia selling works to their
> advantage - even more so if you do it online and pay top whack!
through the whole dishonest palaver again.
> The ISPs, supermarkets, insurance and utility companies have made it so
> that serial disloyalty pays and if you don't ask you don't get.
does that, don't encourage its perpetuation by playing along with it.
> It is pretty much law of the jungle and has been since it started.
> I don't make the rules but once I discover them I will always use them
> to my advantage.
> Willing seller willing buyer - if you look like you are about to walk
> away and so they will lose a contract then they tend to be a lot more
> accommodating. If you don't talk to customer retention every couple of
> years with a serious threat to leave for a competitor then you will be
> ripped off. Renewals have no leeway at all to negotiate sensible deals.
> Competition is supposed to sort all this stuff out but most people are
> not prepared to jump through all the hoops. Inertia selling works. >
> Most people are not prepared to do their homework and then haggle.
through the same pantomime every year or two which is forced on us
partly by the willing compliance of suckers such as you.
Tim+
Apr 21, 2022, 8:24:03 AM4/21/22
to
https://www.zen.co.uk/resources/docs/default-source/document-library/standard-terms-and-conditions/lifetime-price-guarantee-terms-and-conditions.pdf
Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Tweed
Apr 21, 2022, 10:33:43 AM4/21/22
to
promise for new customers.
Martin Brown
Apr 21, 2022, 10:43:25 AM4/21/22
to
On 19/04/2022 19:47, Peter wrote:
>
> Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote
feeding it into the ground in bulk are interesting.
>
> Isn't fibre point to point, or can they multidrop it?
Only the most expensive commercial fibre service is point to point.
There is a passive mixer/splitter on the pole looking not unlike the old
black policeman's helmet type copper junction covers. The fibre one has
provision for I think 16 weatherproof fibre joints into a (passive)
mixer. I haven't seen one close up so it could easily be 8, 12 or 24.
The fibre cable reaches it by way of a fancy strain reliever than
ensures that the cable run remains taut but doesn't pass on any load to
the optical joints. I think the distribution wires come with their
weatherproof end connector already fitted. The installation guy has to
do the home end - typically to a small grey box at ground level.
The field splicing kit it quite an impressive piece of gear.
Everyone gets everything but only has the key for their packets and
somehow the modems know when it is their turn to use the return path.
Hence the download bandwidth is considerably higher than the return
path. It relies to some extent on not everyone using all of the
bandwidth at the same time - an assumption that could be violated
sometimes. eg World Cup Final day live in QHD.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
>
> Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote
>
>> They go back to a much larger county town scale exchange.
>> My local exchange was bypassed for the FTTP (which I now have).
>>
>> The optic fibres run continuously for about 15 miles. I don't know what
>> the upper limit on range to exchange is
There are also a few joints along the way since the practicalities of
>> They go back to a much larger county town scale exchange.
>> My local exchange was bypassed for the FTTP (which I now have).
>>
>> The optic fibres run continuously for about 15 miles. I don't know what
>> the upper limit on range to exchange is
feeding it into the ground in bulk are interesting.
>
> Isn't fibre point to point, or can they multidrop it?
Only the most expensive commercial fibre service is point to point.
There is a passive mixer/splitter on the pole looking not unlike the old
black policeman's helmet type copper junction covers. The fibre one has
provision for I think 16 weatherproof fibre joints into a (passive)
mixer. I haven't seen one close up so it could easily be 8, 12 or 24.
The fibre cable reaches it by way of a fancy strain reliever than
ensures that the cable run remains taut but doesn't pass on any load to
the optical joints. I think the distribution wires come with their
weatherproof end connector already fitted. The installation guy has to
do the home end - typically to a small grey box at ground level.
The field splicing kit it quite an impressive piece of gear.
Everyone gets everything but only has the key for their packets and
somehow the modems know when it is their turn to use the return path.
Hence the download bandwidth is considerably higher than the return
path. It relies to some extent on not everyone using all of the
bandwidth at the same time - an assumption that could be violated
sometimes. eg World Cup Final day live in QHD.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Martin Brown
Apr 21, 2022, 10:46:44 AM4/21/22
to
This is basic Sales Negotiation 101.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Tweed
Apr 21, 2022, 11:20:08 AM4/21/22
to
upstream speed. The likes of CityFibre offer symmetric speeds, top tier
being 1000Mbits/sec. The physical architecture,ie passive splitting, is the
same.
Java Jive
Apr 21, 2022, 1:21:06 PM4/21/22
to
On 21/04/2022 15:46, Martin Brown wrote:
>
> On 21/04/2022 13:07, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 21/04/2022 09:28, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> Competition is supposed to sort all this stuff out but most people
>>> are not prepared to jump through all the hoops. Inertia selling works. >
>>> Most people are not prepared to do their homework and then haggle.
>>
>> Exactly, most of us have got better things to do with our time than go
>> through the same pantomime every year or two which is forced on us
>> partly by the willing compliance of suckers such as you.
>
> *YOU* are the sucker if you are paying their full list price.
*YOU* are the sucker that thinks he's saving something by avoiding
>
> On 21/04/2022 13:07, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 21/04/2022 09:28, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> Competition is supposed to sort all this stuff out but most people
>>> are not prepared to jump through all the hoops. Inertia selling works. >
>>> Most people are not prepared to do their homework and then haggle.
>>
>> Exactly, most of us have got better things to do with our time than go
>> through the same pantomime every year or two which is forced on us
>> partly by the willing compliance of suckers such as you.
>
> *YOU* are the sucker if you are paying their full list price.
paying list price, when all you're actually doing is being subsidised by
others who happen to like the democratic idea that they pay the same
price for a service as everyone else. Do you ring up Amazon and try to
get cheaper prices on everything you buy from them? Tesco? Marks &
Spencer? Toolstation? Given your previous rants here about, for
example, how installation of rural fibre must be a tax fiddle and that
townies subsidise rural broadband and rural postal services, it's
disgustingly hypocritical of you, but that won't surprise anyone here.
> This is basic Sales Negotiation 101.
Graham J
Apr 22, 2022, 3:22:58 AM4/22/22
to
>> Willing seller willing buyer - if you look like you are about to walk
>> away and so they will lose a contract then they tend to be a lot more
>> accommodating. If you don't talk to customer retention every couple of
>> years with a serious threat to leave for a competitor then you will be
>> ripped off.
>
> That is correct; it is how the cellular business has always worked.
>> away and so they will lose a contract then they tend to be a lot more
>> accommodating. If you don't talk to customer retention every couple of
>> years with a serious threat to leave for a competitor then you will be
>> ripped off.
>
>
> However there is a bit of a quid pro quo: when the salesman phones you
> up, just before your contract ends and moves over to a 30 day
> rollover, and offers you some special deal, you are also signing a
> fresh 2 year or whatever contract which you can't get out of for that
> time.
>
> The whole system is rigged so people about to leave get special
> retention terms.
There's obviously a cost to the business in giving better terms to the
customers that complain, as well as the cost to the customer in terms of
his/her time and planning.
If the cost to the business reduces the profit margin too much, that
business will fail.
So that fact that so many businesses appear to survive suggests that the
practise is wholly affordable. Possible the discounts offered represent
good advertising (and are potentially charged to the advertising
budget); alternatively the list prices are set so high that even
allowing for the discounts there is still an adequate profit.
In a market where there is no other distinguishing feature, price
cutting may be the only way to get more sales.
In terms of choice of ISP, there are other factors: quality of support,
static IP address, reliability of service, and the like. For some of
us, these factors mean that we tolerate higher prices.
--
Graham J
Martin Brown
Apr 22, 2022, 5:12:18 AM4/22/22
to
>> Willing seller willing buyer - if you look like you are about to walk
>> away and so they will lose a contract then they tend to be a lot more
>> accommodating. If you don't talk to customer retention every couple of
>> years with a serious threat to leave for a competitor then you will be
>> ripped off.
>
>> away and so they will lose a contract then they tend to be a lot more
>> accommodating. If you don't talk to customer retention every couple of
>> years with a serious threat to leave for a competitor then you will be
>> ripped off.
>
> That is correct; it is how the cellular business has always worked.
>
> However there is a bit of a quid pro quo: when the salesman phones you
> up, just before your contract ends and moves over to a 30 day
> rollover, and offers you some special deal, you are also signing a
> fresh 2 year or whatever contract which you can't get out of for that
> time.
Indeed and on a 2 year contract it is worth spending 30 minutes on the
>
> However there is a bit of a quid pro quo: when the salesman phones you
> up, just before your contract ends and moves over to a 30 day
> rollover, and offers you some special deal, you are also signing a
> fresh 2 year or whatever contract which you can't get out of for that
> time.
phone haggling if that saves you £5 pcm = £120 over the contract. That
saving is something like a £240 hourly rate for the time invested.
> The whole system is rigged so people about to leave get special
> retention terms.
"special" renewal terms first offered are not really all that special.
They are the skinners moving in to scalp unwary innocents. They are a
bit better than some advertised deals but not by all that much.
You have to look very carefully at the competition to stand any chance
at all of coming out ahead. You have to be talking to the trappers to be
in with any chance of obtaining a decent deal. The renewals people do
not have the authority to do anything worthwhile at all.
Unless they really believe that you are about to leave you don't have
any worthwhile negotiating position. And sometimes you do just leave for
another competitor with a better offer. I did that to EE over the FTTP.
Nothing wrong with their price but I would have lost my well known
geographic local phone number if I had not migrated back to BT. EE
customer support even put me through directly to BT fibre sales.
(they are now different wings of the same company as is Plusnet)
EE is only interested in selling broadband only service on full fibre.
> Anyway, it will be interesting what we get here in the sticks. I would
> like FTTP and wholly in the ground, but to get to our house (there is
> a duct I put in all the way to the road, from the house) they have to
> cross the road, which I doubt they will be doing. They are almost
> certain to run it from a pole, in the air.
If your poles have "beware fibre above" yellow stickers on then yes they
will almost certainly run it in from overhead. Doesn't seem to be much
of a problem the strain relief is well thought out. I felt a bit sorry
for them - there are uninsulated (were once insulated) mains wires on
the same "no climb" poles so they had to get a cherry picker in.
Worth talking to the engineer though. Mine came up with a much neater
solution to getting the cable to where I wanted it and saving him time
too. All wiring remained external instead of running it through the
entre length of the loft as the previous copper had done.
Basically they ran the new cable to the other gable end - a short
distance from an already provisioned pole and nearer to my office. The
old BT copper remained where it was.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Java Jive
Apr 22, 2022, 8:14:51 AM4/22/22
to
On 22/04/2022 10:12, Martin Brown wrote:
>
> Indeed and on a 2 year contract it is worth spending 30 minutes on the
> phone haggling if that saves you £5 pcm = £120 over the contract. That
> saving is something like a £240 hourly rate for the time invested.
[...]
>
> Indeed and on a 2 year contract it is worth spending 30 minutes on the
> phone haggling if that saves you £5 pcm = £120 over the contract. That
> saving is something like a £240 hourly rate for the time invested.
> The point I am trying and apparently failing to make is that those
> "special" renewal terms first offered are not really all that special.
> They are the skinners moving in to scalp unwary innocents. They are a
> bit better than some advertised deals but not by all that much.
attempted self-justification.
And by spending 30 minutes on the phone every year or two you are
effectively ensuring that you will always have to be doing this until
your dying day, and, if enough people do it, that everyone else will
have to do so as well.
It still remains a fact that people like you are effectively being
subsidised by people like me who believe that the price stated for a
service should be applied democratically and indiscriminately to everyone.
You are a major part of the problem that this doesn't happen.
Tweed
Apr 22, 2022, 8:22:27 AM4/22/22
to
doubt, is by legislation. (Somewhat akin to what has happened with car
insurance). Without that the only rational course of action is for the
individual to seek the best price they can by negotiating. The idea that it
could be stamped out by enough people refusing to engage in negotiating is
just never going to happen.
Java Jive
Apr 22, 2022, 9:44:00 AM4/22/22
to
On 22/04/2022 14:37, Bob Latham wrote:
>
> In article <t3u6m1$jd3$1...@dont-email.me>,
> 100% correct and 99% of people know this. :-)
100% incorrect, cf apartheid and how the SA economy was brought to its
knees by consumer boycotts throughout the world.
>
> In article <t3u6m1$jd3$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The only way this could be stopped, if there was the political will
>> which I doubt, is by legislation. (Somewhat akin to what has
>> happened with car insurance). Without that the only rational course
>> of action is for the individual to seek the best price they can by
>> negotiating. The idea that it could be stamped out by enough people
>> refusing to engage in negotiating is just never going to happen.
It could also be stopped by consumer action.
>>
>> The only way this could be stopped, if there was the political will
>> which I doubt, is by legislation. (Somewhat akin to what has
>> happened with car insurance). Without that the only rational course
>> of action is for the individual to seek the best price they can by
>> negotiating. The idea that it could be stamped out by enough people
>> refusing to engage in negotiating is just never going to happen.
> 100% correct and 99% of people know this. :-)
100% incorrect, cf apartheid and how the SA economy was brought to its
knees by consumer boycotts throughout the world.
Tweed
Apr 22, 2022, 10:19:16 AM4/22/22
to
Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 22/04/2022 14:37, Bob Latham wrote:
>>
>> In article <t3u6m1$jd3$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The only way this could be stopped, if there was the political will
>>> which I doubt, is by legislation. (Somewhat akin to what has
>>> happened with car insurance). Without that the only rational course
>>> of action is for the individual to seek the best price they can by
>>> negotiating. The idea that it could be stamped out by enough people
>>> refusing to engage in negotiating is just never going to happen.
>
> It could also be stopped by consumer action.
>
>> 100% correct and 99% of people know this. :-)
>
> 100% incorrect, cf apartheid and how the SA economy was brought to its
> knees by consumer boycotts throughout the world.
>
I very much doubt that consumers regard renegotiating broadband contracts
> On 22/04/2022 14:37, Bob Latham wrote:
>>
>> In article <t3u6m1$jd3$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The only way this could be stopped, if there was the political will
>>> which I doubt, is by legislation. (Somewhat akin to what has
>>> happened with car insurance). Without that the only rational course
>>> of action is for the individual to seek the best price they can by
>>> negotiating. The idea that it could be stamped out by enough people
>>> refusing to engage in negotiating is just never going to happen.
>
> It could also be stopped by consumer action.
>
>> 100% correct and 99% of people know this. :-)
>
> 100% incorrect, cf apartheid and how the SA economy was brought to its
> knees by consumer boycotts throughout the world.
>
in remotely the same light as apartheid. Probably most believe, erroneously
or not, that they are actually gaining something, so the chances of them
joining a moral crusade so that you can have slightly less expensive
broadband is vanishingly small.
Abandoned_Trolley
Apr 22, 2022, 10:20:11 AM4/22/22
to
On 22/04/2022 14:43, Java Jive wrote:
> On 22/04/2022 14:37, Bob Latham wrote:
>>
>> In article <t3u6m1$jd3$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The only way this could be stopped, if there was the political will
>>> which I doubt, is by legislation. (Somewhat akin to what has
>>> happened with car insurance). Without that the only rational course
>>> of action is for the individual to seek the best price they can by
>>> negotiating. The idea that it could be stamped out by enough people
>>> refusing to engage in negotiating is just never going to happen.
>
> It could also be stopped by consumer action.
Although consumer action is going to be a bit difficult in a market
> On 22/04/2022 14:37, Bob Latham wrote:
>>
>> In article <t3u6m1$jd3$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The only way this could be stopped, if there was the political will
>>> which I doubt, is by legislation. (Somewhat akin to what has
>>> happened with car insurance). Without that the only rational course
>>> of action is for the individual to seek the best price they can by
>>> negotiating. The idea that it could be stamped out by enough people
>>> refusing to engage in negotiating is just never going to happen.
>
> It could also be stopped by consumer action.
which for a lot of people is a monopoly (OpenReach) or a cosy duopoly
(OpenReach and Virgin) - in which the toothless regulator sits and
watches an obvious cartel at work.
The other unusual (possibly unique) aspect of this market is that I can
think of no other commodity, product or service which is sold in the
same way as OR fibre - insofar as I am getting about 26M on a FTTC
product, whereas a bloke 300 metres down the street from me is getting
more than 50M by paying the same price for the same product from the
same supplier.
You would never buy electricity under the same conditions, and yet
electricity network infrastructure is probably just as expensive as that
for any telecoms network.
Java Jive
Apr 22, 2022, 10:53:23 AM4/22/22
to
On 22/04/2022 15:19, Tweed wrote:
> Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On 22/04/2022 14:37, Bob Latham wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <t3u6m1$jd3$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The only way this could be stopped, if there was the political will
>>>> which I doubt, is by legislation. (Somewhat akin to what has
>>>> happened with car insurance). Without that the only rational course
>>>> of action is for the individual to seek the best price they can by
>>>> negotiating. The idea that it could be stamped out by enough people
>>>> refusing to engage in negotiating is just never going to happen.
>>
>> It could also be stopped by consumer action.
>>
>>> 100% correct and 99% of people know this. :-)
>>
>> 100% incorrect, cf apartheid and how the SA economy was brought to its
>> knees by consumer boycotts throughout the world.
>
> I very much doubt that consumers regard renegotiating broadband contracts
> in remotely the same light as apartheid.
Perhaps not, but most people don't like dishonest behaviour by ISPs and
> Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On 22/04/2022 14:37, Bob Latham wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <t3u6m1$jd3$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The only way this could be stopped, if there was the political will
>>>> which I doubt, is by legislation. (Somewhat akin to what has
>>>> happened with car insurance). Without that the only rational course
>>>> of action is for the individual to seek the best price they can by
>>>> negotiating. The idea that it could be stamped out by enough people
>>>> refusing to engage in negotiating is just never going to happen.
>>
>> It could also be stopped by consumer action.
>>
>>> 100% correct and 99% of people know this. :-)
>>
>> 100% incorrect, cf apartheid and how the SA economy was brought to its
>> knees by consumer boycotts throughout the world.
>
> I very much doubt that consumers regard renegotiating broadband contracts
> in remotely the same light as apartheid.
similar services.
> Probably most believe, erroneously
> or not, that they are actually gaining something,
> so the chances of them
> joining a moral crusade so that you can have slightly less expensive
> broadband is vanishingly small.
a dishonest market.
Java Jive
Apr 22, 2022, 10:58:33 AM4/22/22
to
On 22/04/2022 15:20, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
> On 22/04/2022 14:43, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 22/04/2022 14:37, Bob Latham wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <t3u6m1$jd3$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The only way this could be stopped, if there was the political will
>>>> which I doubt, is by legislation. (Somewhat akin to what has
>>>> happened with car insurance). Without that the only rational course
>>>> of action is for the individual to seek the best price they can by
>>>> negotiating. The idea that it could be stamped out by enough people
>>>> refusing to engage in negotiating is just never going to happen.
>>
>> It could also be stopped by consumer action.
>
> Although consumer action is going to be a bit difficult in a market
> which for a lot of people is a monopoly (OpenReach) or a cosy duopoly
> (OpenReach and Virgin) - in which the toothless regulator sits and
> watches an obvious cartel at work.
There's a plethora of different resellers, and mobile as well. Using
> On 22/04/2022 14:43, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 22/04/2022 14:37, Bob Latham wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <t3u6m1$jd3$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Tweed <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The only way this could be stopped, if there was the political will
>>>> which I doubt, is by legislation. (Somewhat akin to what has
>>>> happened with car insurance). Without that the only rational course
>>>> of action is for the individual to seek the best price they can by
>>>> negotiating. The idea that it could be stamped out by enough people
>>>> refusing to engage in negotiating is just never going to happen.
>>
>> It could also be stopped by consumer action.
>
> Although consumer action is going to be a bit difficult in a market
> which for a lot of people is a monopoly (OpenReach) or a cosy duopoly
> (OpenReach and Virgin) - in which the toothless regulator sits and
> watches an obvious cartel at work.
only 2/3G at £22pcm, I get between 5Mbps and 15Mpbs, even the lowest
rates at busiest times being at least double the best I was ever able to
achieve here via a landline.
> The other unusual (possibly unique) aspect of this market is that I can
> think of no other commodity, product or service which is sold in the
> same way as OR fibre - insofar as I am getting about 26M on a FTTC
> product, whereas a bloke 300 metres down the street from me is getting
> more than 50M by paying the same price for the same product from the
> same supplier.
>
> You would never buy electricity under the same conditions, and yet
> electricity network infrastructure is probably just as expensive as that
> for any telecoms network.
Abandoned_Trolley
Apr 22, 2022, 11:12:53 AM4/22/22
to
>
> There's a plethora of different resellers, and mobile as well. Using
> only 2/3G at £22pcm, I get between 5Mbps and 15Mpbs, even the lowest
> rates at busiest times being at least double the best I was ever able to
> achieve here via a landline.
>
service via the reseller of your choice, or you use Virgin media.
OR will upgrade the street to FTTP when they are good and ready, but
will not give a date - in the meantime FTTP is not available even for
business customers
"Getting the best deal" is not just about price
Java Jive
Apr 22, 2022, 11:43:14 AM4/22/22
to
On 22/04/2022 16:12, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
>
>>
>> There's a plethora of different resellers, and mobile as well. Using
>> only 2/3G at £22pcm, I get between 5Mbps and 15Mpbs, even the lowest
>> rates at busiest times being at least double the best I was ever able
>> to achieve here via a landline.
>>
>
> plethora or not, theres only one OpenReach, and you either use their
> service via the reseller of your choice, or you use Virgin media.
>
> OR will upgrade the street to FTTP when they are good and ready, but
> will not give a date - in the meantime FTTP is not available even for
> business customers
Yeahbut, none of that is relevant to my point about the behaviour of ISPs.
>
>>
>> There's a plethora of different resellers, and mobile as well. Using
>> only 2/3G at £22pcm, I get between 5Mbps and 15Mpbs, even the lowest
>> rates at busiest times being at least double the best I was ever able
>> to achieve here via a landline.
>>
>
> plethora or not, theres only one OpenReach, and you either use their
> service via the reseller of your choice, or you use Virgin media.
>
> OR will upgrade the street to FTTP when they are good and ready, but
> will not give a date - in the meantime FTTP is not available even for
> business customers
> "Getting the best deal" is not just about price
Tweed
Apr 22, 2022, 12:38:39 PM4/22/22
to
something is in their interests when it is not (see also politics). I doubt
you could frame legislation that couldn’t be worked around. Commerce is
usually more agile in this respect than the law makers.
Java Jive
Apr 22, 2022, 12:51:36 PM4/22/22
to
Tweed
Apr 22, 2022, 1:03:20 PM4/22/22
to
Java Jive
Apr 22, 2022, 1:41:56 PM4/22/22
to
All that is needed is a requirement that ISPs stick to advertised
prices, and don't offer special deals to individuals who try to cheat
the system.
notya...@gmail.com
Apr 23, 2022, 7:09:35 AM4/23/22
to
On Friday, 22 April 2022 at 15:53:23 UTC+1, Java Jive wrote:
> On 22/04/2022 15:19, Tweed wrote:
> > Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 22/04/2022 14:37, Bob Latham wrote:
> >>>
SNIP
> On 22/04/2022 15:19, Tweed wrote:
> > Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 22/04/2022 14:37, Bob Latham wrote:
> >>>
> > Probably most believe, erroneously
> > or not, that they are actually gaining something,
> A moment's thought would show them that they are not.
> > so the chances of them
> > joining a moral crusade so that you can have slightly less expensive
> > broadband is vanishingly small.
> A moment's thought would show them that it's in no-one's benefit to have
> a dishonest market.
> --
>
> Fake news kills!
Martin Brown
Apr 24, 2022, 6:09:39 AM4/24/22
to
On 22/04/2022 16:12, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
>
>>
>
>>
>> There's a plethora of different resellers, and mobile as well. Using
>> only 2/3G at £22pcm, I get between 5Mbps and 15Mpbs, even the lowest
>> rates at busiest times being at least double the best I was ever able
>> to achieve here via a landline.
>>
>
> plethora or not, theres only one OpenReach, and you either use their
> service via the reseller of your choice, or you use Virgin media.
There is now CityFibre as well in major cities.
>> only 2/3G at £22pcm, I get between 5Mbps and 15Mpbs, even the lowest
>> rates at busiest times being at least double the best I was ever able
>> to achieve here via a landline.
>>
>
> plethora or not, theres only one OpenReach, and you either use their
> service via the reseller of your choice, or you use Virgin media.
https://cityfibre.com
Very much cherry picking all the most profitable locations....
Nothing like a universal service obligation.
> OR will upgrade the street to FTTP when they are good and ready, but
> will not give a date - in the meantime FTTP is not available even for
> business customers
over decrepit copper lines that either fibre service is a big step up.
Many rural areas have one or more competing peer to peer microwave
networks tied into core fibre lines at some central location. our local
one Clannet was absorbed into Quickline a couple of years back.
https://quickline.co.uk/news/clannet-joins-the-quickline-clan/
There are similar ones in other rural areas - only snag is that the link
requires strict line of sight and the hardware is expensive - typically
a £2-300 installation charge requiring expert alignment by an engineer
but after that is relatively trouble free and similar price to landline.
Most of the farms round here have been on it for ages even if they had
to nail a scaffold pole to the top of a barn to obtain line of sight!
> "Getting the best deal" is not just about price
pretty much all about price unless you choose an ISP with a reputation
for being utterly unreliable and incapable of customer service.
I was with EE for many years and their overall reputation isn't all that
good but they were fine whenever I reported a true hard physical fault.
I expect they are useless about common windows network related faults
and so get marked down by irate ignorant consumers.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Martin Brown
Apr 24, 2022, 6:11:57 AM4/24/22
to
On 22/04/2022 13:22, Tweed wrote:
> Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On 22/04/2022 10:12, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> Indeed and on a 2 year contract it is worth spending 30 minutes on the
>>> phone haggling if that saves you £5 pcm = £120 over the contract. That
>>> saving is something like a £240 hourly rate for the time invested.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> The point I am trying and apparently failing to make is that those
>>> "special" renewal terms first offered are not really all that special.
>>> They are the skinners moving in to scalp unwary innocents. They are a
>>> bit better than some advertised deals but not by all that much.
>>
>> Self-contradiction, rather typical of your moral floundering about in
>> attempted self-justification.
I am describing how the real world is and not some imaginary utopia.
> Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On 22/04/2022 10:12, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> Indeed and on a 2 year contract it is worth spending 30 minutes on the
>>> phone haggling if that saves you £5 pcm = £120 over the contract. That
>>> saving is something like a £240 hourly rate for the time invested.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> The point I am trying and apparently failing to make is that those
>>> "special" renewal terms first offered are not really all that special.
>>> They are the skinners moving in to scalp unwary innocents. They are a
>>> bit better than some advertised deals but not by all that much.
>>
>> Self-contradiction, rather typical of your moral floundering about in
>> attempted self-justification.
Marketing departments have teams of people figuring out how to maximise
their income for selling the minimum amount of goods and services.
ISPs are no different to any other commercial business in this respect.
The main difference is that they always bid high by default and snatch
the hand off anyone daft enough to pay their full asking price!
Willing seller and willing buyer. You are not compelled to buy their
product so you should use that fact as a negotiating tool.
>> And by spending 30 minutes on the phone every year or two you are
>> effectively ensuring that you will always have to be doing this until
>> your dying day, and, if enough people do it, that everyone else will
>> have to do so as well.
>>
>> It still remains a fact that people like you are effectively being
>> subsidised by people like me who believe that the price stated for a
>> service should be applied democratically and indiscriminately to everyone.
>>
>> You are a major part of the problem that this doesn't happen.
bid high to ripoff consumers strategy. If more people paid attention to
the fact that customer loyalty is penalised and that the advertised
"Price" is only an opening gambit then the prices would come down.
The assumption of modern economics is that willing seller and willing
buyer are equally well informed. The ISPs go out of their way to keep
that relationship as asymmetric as possible so that their ignorant
customers will happily pay through the nose for an inferior service.
> The only way this could be stopped, if there was the political will which I
> doubt, is by legislation. (Somewhat akin to what has happened with car
> insurance). Without that the only rational course of action is for the
> individual to seek the best price they can by negotiating. The idea that it
> could be stamped out by enough people refusing to engage in negotiating is
> just never going to happen.
working though. Marketeers are a cunning bunch and will find a way to
get around the legislation probably by putting all our prices up.
Fools like Java Jive are the reason why none of the recent 5p fuel
discount was passed on to consumers. So long as people keep on buying at
extortionate prices there is no incentive for the suppliers to change.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Martin Brown
Apr 24, 2022, 6:12:19 AM4/24/22
to
>> There are also a few joints along the way since the practicalities of
>> feeding it into the ground in bulk are interesting.
>>>
>
> I read the compressed air method is up to 3km.
>> feeding it into the ground in bulk are interesting.
>>>
>
>
> Still amazing...
The stuff BT (or rather their contractors were putting into the ducts
around here came on a big 2m diameter drum on a trailer and was about
8mm in diameter all up including fibre, a layer of kevlar rope
protection and the black pcv with a narrow yellow stripe and stamped
"property of BT" in light grey.
They were pulling it through conduits with the traditional blue rope
trick although it seemed to power fed from the drum end and really quite
tough and rigid. No way would it blow anywhere. The bend to get it into
the ground was close to the maximum bend it would tolerate.
I have an offcut of the stuff and it is pretty tough and rigid there is
no way on earth you would be blowing it anywhere.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Angus Robertson - Magenta Systems Ltd
Apr 24, 2022, 7:00:40 AM4/24/22
to
> The stuff BT (or rather their contractors were putting into the
> ducts around here came on a big 2m diameter drum on a trailer and
> was about 8mm in diameter all up including fibre, a layer of
> kevlar rope protection and the black pcv with a narrow yellow
> stripe and stamped "property of BT" in light grey.
Community Fibre is laying fibre in various London boroughs, currently in
> ducts around here came on a big 2m diameter drum on a trailer and
> was about 8mm in diameter all up including fibre, a layer of
> kevlar rope protection and the black pcv with a narrow yellow
> stripe and stamped "property of BT" in light grey.
Croydon and Addiscombe where Openreach apparently has no plans for full fibre,
perhaps because Virgin Media offers gig service here already.
One gang pulled a micro-duct down the Openreach ducts, another gang pulled tiny
fibre down the new micro-duct, leaving small rolls of fibre and joining boxes
hanging from some telegraph poles. But not the pole outside my house, the
short duct between manhole and pole has been filled with tarmac during pavement
resurfacing.
So now waiting for Community Fibre to start offering service, up to 10 Gbps for
businesses (£475/month), only up to 3 Gbps for residential (£89/month, but
£30/month for 1 Gbps).
Angus
Java Jive
Apr 24, 2022, 7:16:38 AM4/24/22
to
On 24/04/2022 11:11, Martin Brown wrote:
>
> On 22/04/2022 13:22, Tweed wrote:
>>
>> Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 22/04/2022 10:12, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Indeed and on a 2 year contract it is worth spending 30 minutes on the
>>>> phone haggling if that saves you £5 pcm = £120 over the contract. That
>>>> saving is something like a £240 hourly rate for the time invested.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> The point I am trying and apparently failing to make is that those
>>>> "special" renewal terms first offered are not really all that special.
>>>> They are the skinners moving in to scalp unwary innocents. They are a
>>>> bit better than some advertised deals but not by all that much.
>>>
>>> Self-contradiction, rather typical of your moral floundering about in
>>> attempted self-justification.
>
> I am describing how the real world is and not some imaginary utopia.
I am describing how people like you trying to cheat the system are part
>
> On 22/04/2022 13:22, Tweed wrote:
>>
>> Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 22/04/2022 10:12, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Indeed and on a 2 year contract it is worth spending 30 minutes on the
>>>> phone haggling if that saves you £5 pcm = £120 over the contract. That
>>>> saving is something like a £240 hourly rate for the time invested.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> The point I am trying and apparently failing to make is that those
>>>> "special" renewal terms first offered are not really all that special.
>>>> They are the skinners moving in to scalp unwary innocents. They are a
>>>> bit better than some advertised deals but not by all that much.
>>>
>>> Self-contradiction, rather typical of your moral floundering about in
>>> attempted self-justification.
>
> I am describing how the real world is and not some imaginary utopia.
of the wider problem, and are suckered into maintaining it.
> Willing seller and willing buyer. You are not compelled to buy their
> product so you should use that fact as a negotiating tool.
line with inflation, whereas you are actively encouraging them to do
just that.
>>> And by spending 30 minutes on the phone every year or two you are
>>> effectively ensuring that you will always have to be doing this until
>>> your dying day, and, if enough people do it, that everyone else will
>>> have to do so as well.
>>>
>>> It still remains a fact that people like you are effectively being
>>> subsidised by people like me who believe that the price stated for a
>>> service should be applied democratically and indiscriminately to
>>> everyone.
>>>
>>> You are a major part of the problem that this doesn't happen.
>
It's not an 'inability', it's merely choosing to adopt an ethical stance
in what I purchase. Previously, I got way better broadband than most
around here at a very competitive price, but then the ISP did the usual
"We're moving you to a new contract!" trick, the 'new' contract being
exactly the same as the 'old' one but 25% or so more expensive, so I
simply went elsewhere to make the point to that ISP that their behaviour
was as unacceptable to me as it would be to any other right-thinking
customer. Currently, I still get better broadband than most around
here, and I'm paying about the same as I was previously, allowing for
inflation. To obtain this, I didn't need to try to cheat the system,
thus ensuring that I would have to try to do so again when my contract
ran out, or when the ISP decided to stop subsidising me, or having their
other customers subsidise me, I simply shopped around until I found the
right deal advertised.
>> The only way this could be stopped, if there was the political will
>> which I
>> doubt, is by legislation. (Somewhat akin to what has happened with car
>> insurance). Without that the only rational course of action is for the
>> individual to seek the best price they can by negotiating. The idea
>> that it
>> could be stamped out by enough people refusing to engage in
>> negotiating is
>> just never going to happen.
>
> They have just done it for the insurance market. I can't see it actually
> working though. Marketeers are a cunning bunch and will find a way to
> get around the legislation probably by putting all our prices up.
>
> Fools like Java Jive are the reason why none of the recent 5p fuel
> discount was passed on to consumers. So long as people keep on buying at
> extortionate prices there is no incentive for the suppliers to change.
Vietnam War, apartheid in South Africa, bringing down the Berlin Wall,
etc. The real 'fools' here are people like Martin Brown who allow
themselves to be suckered into playing the ISPs' game, a game that they
can never win except on a limited basis by cheating, and having others
subsidise their broadband.
Peter Johnson
Apr 24, 2022, 1:18:00 PM4/24/22
to
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 11:12:17 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>The stuff BT (or rather their contractors were putting into the ducts
>around here came on a big 2m diameter drum on a trailer and was about
>8mm in diameter all up including fibre, a layer of kevlar rope
>protection and the black pcv with a narrow yellow stripe and stamped
>"property of BT" in light grey.
>
>They were pulling it through conduits with the traditional blue rope
>trick although it seemed to power fed from the drum end and really quite
>tough and rigid. No way would it blow anywhere. The bend to get it into
>the ground was close to the maximum bend it would tolerate.
>
>I have an offcut of the stuff and it is pretty tough and rigid there is
>no way on earth you would be blowing it anywhere.
It's the single fibre to individual properties that gets blown, not
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>The stuff BT (or rather their contractors were putting into the ducts
>around here came on a big 2m diameter drum on a trailer and was about
>8mm in diameter all up including fibre, a layer of kevlar rope
>protection and the black pcv with a narrow yellow stripe and stamped
>"property of BT" in light grey.
>
>They were pulling it through conduits with the traditional blue rope
>trick although it seemed to power fed from the drum end and really quite
>tough and rigid. No way would it blow anywhere. The bend to get it into
>the ground was close to the maximum bend it would tolerate.
>
>I have an offcut of the stuff and it is pretty tough and rigid there is
>no way on earth you would be blowing it anywhere.
the stuff you saw. I saw it done when my Zen (over CityFibre)
connection was installed.
Martin Brown
Apr 25, 2022, 4:39:31 AM4/25/22
to
down a conduit and prevent rodents from nibbling it into the bargain.
(no PVC covering might be an advantage - they find it irresistible!)
The splice joint on my installation is at ground level and with a coil
strain reliever in a 15cm square grey box. The other end was a pre made
optical plug that goes into a socket on a mixer block on the pole. I'm
guessing they have it in standard length packs on the van and cut to
length as needed for the install.
Is the Zen method the same? Pre made far end plug into a passive optical
distribution/mixer socket and a custom joint at the premises.
One of the hefty cables I described above was wrecked by rats within a
few weeks of being installed. They were fixing it at the same time as
doing my installation. Another early adopter had reported a total fail.
So far so good at my location, but it did give others pause for thought.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Martin Brown
Apr 25, 2022, 10:06:48 AM4/25/22
to
On 21/04/2022 18:21, Java Jive wrote:
> On 21/04/2022 15:46, Martin Brown wrote:
>>
>> On 21/04/2022 13:07, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> On 21/04/2022 09:28, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Competition is supposed to sort all this stuff out but most people
>>>> are not prepared to jump through all the hoops. Inertia selling
>>>> works. >
>>>> Most people are not prepared to do their homework and then haggle.
>>>
>>> Exactly, most of us have got better things to do with our time than
>>> go through the same pantomime every year or two which is forced on us
>>> partly by the willing compliance of suckers such as you.
>>
>> *YOU* are the sucker if you are paying their full list price.
>
> *YOU* are the sucker that thinks he's saving something by avoiding
> paying list price, when all you're actually doing is being subsidised by
> others who happen to like the democratic idea that they pay the same
> price for a service as everyone else. Do you ring up Amazon and try to
> get cheaper prices on everything you buy from them? Tesco? Marks &
> Spencer? Toolstation? Given your previous rants here about, for
> example, how installation of rural fibre must be a tax fiddle and that
> townies subsidise rural broadband and rural postal services, it's
> disgustingly hypocritical of you, but that won't surprise anyone here.
So you think that I should allow the slimy salesperson to keep the
> On 21/04/2022 15:46, Martin Brown wrote:
>>
>> On 21/04/2022 13:07, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> On 21/04/2022 09:28, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Competition is supposed to sort all this stuff out but most people
>>>> are not prepared to jump through all the hoops. Inertia selling
>>>> works. >
>>>> Most people are not prepared to do their homework and then haggle.
>>>
>>> Exactly, most of us have got better things to do with our time than
>>> go through the same pantomime every year or two which is forced on us
>>> partly by the willing compliance of suckers such as you.
>>
>> *YOU* are the sucker if you are paying their full list price.
>
> *YOU* are the sucker that thinks he's saving something by avoiding
> paying list price, when all you're actually doing is being subsidised by
> others who happen to like the democratic idea that they pay the same
> price for a service as everyone else. Do you ring up Amazon and try to
> get cheaper prices on everything you buy from them? Tesco? Marks &
> Spencer? Toolstation? Given your previous rants here about, for
> example, how installation of rural fibre must be a tax fiddle and that
> townies subsidise rural broadband and rural postal services, it's
> disgustingly hypocritical of you, but that won't surprise anyone here.
entirety of their "sucker bonus" in the interests of fairness?
How *exactly* does that exert any downwards pressure on pricing?
The rural fibre installation was due to a bung of EU money that had to
be spent on a particular sort of infrastructure by a specific deadline.
We just got lucky - possibly because I know how to make waves.
>> This is basic Sales Negotiation 101.
>
> That is basically a bazaar.
They must bow you in and out of car dealerships!
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Java Jive
Apr 25, 2022, 12:30:42 PM4/25/22
to
On 25/04/2022 15:06, Martin Brown wrote:
>
> So you think that I should allow the slimy salesperson to keep the
> entirety of their "sucker bonus" in the interests of fairness?
Use of pejorative language instead of reasoned argument noted.
>
> So you think that I should allow the slimy salesperson to keep the
> entirety of their "sucker bonus" in the interests of fairness?
I'm saying you should ...
:-( Walk away when a firm ups its prices, including using the
deception of pretending it's a new contract, and make it plain to them
exactly why you are dumping them.
:-( Shop around on the internet for the right deal, for which you
don't need to speak to any 'slimy salespersons'.
>>> This is basic Sales Negotiation 101.
>>
>> That is basically a bazaar.
>
> Willing seller needs a willing buyer. You are not compelled to buy it.
can have other people subsidise my broadband.
Peter Johnson
Apr 25, 2022, 1:34:30 PM4/25/22
to
On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:39:24 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>I'm puzzled by how they make the single fibre robust enough to be blown
>down a conduit and prevent rodents from nibbling it into the bargain.
>(no PVC covering might be an advantage - they find it irresistible!)
The fibre is blown down what I call a micro duct - don't know if
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>I'm puzzled by how they make the single fibre robust enough to be blown
>down a conduit and prevent rodents from nibbling it into the bargain.
>(no PVC covering might be an advantage - they find it irresistible!)
that's its proper name. Under the ground, the duct isn't accessible to
rodents. Given that the fibre, then in some sort of coating that
doesn't look diimilar to the BT cable already pinned along my wall,
which has been there for more than 20 years without being attacked by
rodents I'd be very surprised if they took any interest in the fibre.
>
>The splice joint on my installation is at ground level and with a coil
>strain reliever in a 15cm square grey box. The other end was a pre made
>optical plug that goes into a socket on a mixer block on the pole. I'm
>guessing they have it in standard length packs on the van and cut to
>length as needed for the install.
>
>Is the Zen method the same? Pre made far end plug into a passive optical
>distribution/mixer socket and a custom joint at the premises.
>
No custom joint. The underground run is terminated in a brown junction
>The splice joint on my installation is at ground level and with a coil
>strain reliever in a 15cm square grey box. The other end was a pre made
>optical plug that goes into a socket on a mixer block on the pole. I'm
>guessing they have it in standard length packs on the van and cut to
>length as needed for the install.
>
>Is the Zen method the same? Pre made far end plug into a passive optical
>distribution/mixer socket and a custom joint at the premises.
>
box and then extended around the house to the internal ONT using
premade 'cables' that are issued to the installers in 20 and 25m
lengths. In my case the distance is about 25m so 5m of slack is coiled
up and pinned to the back wall. One day I might ring Zen and ask for
it to be changed to 25m.
Peter Johnson
Apr 25, 2022, 1:36:44 PM4/25/22
to
On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 17:30:40 +0100, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
>
>And I don't, I walk away, rather than try to cheat the system so that I
>can have other people subsidise my broadband.
Very noble. It'll make a lot of difference.
wrote:
>
>And I don't, I walk away, rather than try to cheat the system so that I
>can have other people subsidise my broadband.
Java Jive
Apr 25, 2022, 2:17:43 PM4/25/22
to
Tweed
Apr 25, 2022, 2:28:47 PM4/25/22
to
Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 25/04/2022 18:36, Peter Johnson wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 17:30:40 +0100, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> And I don't, I walk away, rather than try to cheat the system so that I
>>> can have other people subsidise my broadband.
>>
>> Very noble. It'll make a lot of difference.
>
> It certainly will, if enough people do it.
>
But enough won’t, which is the point you don’t want to accept.
> On 25/04/2022 18:36, Peter Johnson wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 17:30:40 +0100, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> And I don't, I walk away, rather than try to cheat the system so that I
>>> can have other people subsidise my broadband.
>>
>> Very noble. It'll make a lot of difference.
>
> It certainly will, if enough people do it.
>
Martin Brown
Apr 25, 2022, 3:05:16 PM4/25/22
to
On 25/04/2022 19:17, Java Jive wrote:
> On 25/04/2022 18:36, Peter Johnson wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 17:30:40 +0100, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> And I don't, I walk away, rather than try to cheat the system so that I
>>> can have other people subsidise my broadband.
>>
>> Very noble. It'll make a lot of difference.
>
> It certainly will, if enough people do it.
You are beyond stupid if you think that.
> On 25/04/2022 18:36, Peter Johnson wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 17:30:40 +0100, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> And I don't, I walk away, rather than try to cheat the system so that I
>>> can have other people subsidise my broadband.
>>
>> Very noble. It'll make a lot of difference.
>
> It certainly will, if enough people do it.
The only thing that a sales person understands is their next bonus.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Java Jive
Apr 25, 2022, 3:12:08 PM4/25/22
to
Java Jive
Apr 25, 2022, 3:13:56 PM4/25/22
to
On 25/04/2022 20:05, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 25/04/2022 19:17, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 25/04/2022 18:36, Peter Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 17:30:40 +0100, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> And I don't, I walk away, rather than try to cheat the system so that I
>>>> can have other people subsidise my broadband.
>>>
>>> Very noble. It'll make a lot of difference.
>>
>> It certainly will, if enough people do it.
>
> You are beyond stupid if you think that.
Translates as: "I don't know how to argue rationally against that, so
> On 25/04/2022 19:17, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 25/04/2022 18:36, Peter Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 17:30:40 +0100, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> And I don't, I walk away, rather than try to cheat the system so that I
>>>> can have other people subsidise my broadband.
>>>
>>> Very noble. It'll make a lot of difference.
>>
>> It certainly will, if enough people do it.
>
> You are beyond stupid if you think that.
I'll resort to abuse instead!"
> The only thing that a sales person understands is their next bonus.
Martin Brown
Apr 25, 2022, 3:20:47 PM4/25/22
to
On 25/04/2022 18:34, Peter Johnson wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:39:24 +0100, Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> I'm puzzled by how they make the single fibre robust enough to be blown
>> down a conduit and prevent rodents from nibbling it into the bargain.
>> (no PVC covering might be an advantage - they find it irresistible!)
>
> The fibre is blown down what I call a micro duct - don't know if
> that's its proper name. Under the ground, the duct isn't accessible to
> rodents. Given that the fibre, then in some sort of coating that
How is it not accessible to rodents? The damn things scurry up and down
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:39:24 +0100, Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> I'm puzzled by how they make the single fibre robust enough to be blown
>> down a conduit and prevent rodents from nibbling it into the bargain.
>> (no PVC covering might be an advantage - they find it irresistible!)
>
> The fibre is blown down what I call a micro duct - don't know if
> that's its proper name. Under the ground, the duct isn't accessible to
> rodents. Given that the fibre, then in some sort of coating that
BT cable ducts all too often. My neighbour was a BT engineer his best
mate died of Leptospirosis almost certainly caught at work.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5847971/Over-100-hospital-admissions-deadly-infection-spread-RATS-URINE-year.html
Do you mean too narrow even for a mouse or made of titanium alloy.
> doesn't look diimilar to the BT cable already pinned along my wall,
> which has been there for more than 20 years without being attacked by
> rodents I'd be very surprised if they took any interest in the fibre.
of cable or even rubber is almost invariably chewed to bits. For some
reason they do the same thing to certain thicknesses of aluminium too!
I reckon they will chew just about anything their jaws will fit around.
>> The splice joint on my installation is at ground level and with a coil
>> strain reliever in a 15cm square grey box. The other end was a pre made
>> optical plug that goes into a socket on a mixer block on the pole. I'm
>> guessing they have it in standard length packs on the van and cut to
>> length as needed for the install.
>>
>> Is the Zen method the same? Pre made far end plug into a passive optical
>> distribution/mixer socket and a custom joint at the premises.
>>
> No custom joint. The underground run is terminated in a brown junction
> box and then extended around the house to the internal ONT using
> premade 'cables' that are issued to the installers in 20 and 25m
> lengths. In my case the distance is about 25m so 5m of slack is coiled
> up and pinned to the back wall. One day I might ring Zen and ask for
> it to be changed to 25m.
outside wall to feed a connector through than a bare fibre cable.
Isn't there a single joint inside the brown junction box or do they have
the equivalent of a patch lead. The way my install was done was one
figure of 8 fibre/copper hybrid pair downlink from the pole to the wall
junction box and one thin more flexible single fibre out from my office
again pre made plug on the far end bare fibre through hole in the wall.
These two were spliced together inside the external patch box at ground
level. I was told if it ever fails they cut into it there and check the
signal level in each direction. Failure normally in the longer leg.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Tweed
Apr 25, 2022, 3:29:21 PM4/25/22
to
Likewise my Virgin Media coax. Neither has been damaged by rodents (well
not enough to affect service) in 30 years.
Abandoned_Trolley
Apr 26, 2022, 3:52:50 AM4/26/22
to
>
> You are beyond stupid if you think that.
>
> The only thing that a sales person understands is their next bonus.
>
>
jewellery stores
Martin Brown
Apr 26, 2022, 4:02:05 AM4/26/22
to
On 26/04/2022 08:52, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
>
>>
>> You are beyond stupid if you think that.
>>
>> The only thing that a sales person understands is their next bonus.
>
> a living example of "beyond stupid" might be the demise of Ratners
> jewellery stores
We sell "Total crap" isn't a good look for a jewellery business.
>
>>
>> You are beyond stupid if you think that.
>>
>> The only thing that a sales person understands is their next bonus.
>
> a living example of "beyond stupid" might be the demise of Ratners
> jewellery stores
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/meandmymoney/article-9775535/Gerald-Ratner-tells-MONEY-rebuilt-finances.html
Apparently he now makes good money on the after dinner and motivational
speaker circuit from telling this tale of his demise!
Presumably with helpful business advice like "don't call your customers
clueless idiots even if they are - exploit their weaknesses quietly".
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Abandoned_Trolley
Apr 26, 2022, 6:10:00 AM4/26/22
to
incompetents" who move around between high powered jobs in the UK
without showing any sign of any experience or knowledge of the
businesses which they are mismanaging.
I would submit Adam Crozier, Rod Eddington, Don Cruickshank and Dido
Harding as prime examples of the genre.
Sadly, the telecoms sector (and Premier League football clubs) appear
not to be immune to their "charms"
Graham J
Apr 26, 2022, 8:02:03 AM4/26/22
to
Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
[snip]
> It occurs to me that there's a number of what you might call "serial
<https://www.bitebackpublishing.com/books/brexit-unfolded>
... where this line appears on page 219: "Brexit had bequeathed a way of
governing which was largely impervious to reason, and incapable of
engaging with complexity."
Government is where you find mostly "serial incompetents" ...
--
Graham J
[snip]
> It occurs to me that there's a number of what you might call "serial
> incompetents" who move around between high powered jobs in the UK
> without showing any sign of any experience or knowledge of the
> businesses which they are mismanaging.
>
> I would submit Adam Crozier, Rod Eddington, Don Cruickshank and Dido
> Harding as prime examples of the genre.
>
> Sadly, the telecoms sector (and Premier League football clubs) appear
> not to be immune to their "charms"
And our current government, as identified by Chris Grey, see:
> without showing any sign of any experience or knowledge of the
> businesses which they are mismanaging.
>
> I would submit Adam Crozier, Rod Eddington, Don Cruickshank and Dido
> Harding as prime examples of the genre.
>
> Sadly, the telecoms sector (and Premier League football clubs) appear
> not to be immune to their "charms"
<https://www.bitebackpublishing.com/books/brexit-unfolded>
... where this line appears on page 219: "Brexit had bequeathed a way of
governing which was largely impervious to reason, and incapable of
engaging with complexity."
Government is where you find mostly "serial incompetents" ...
--
Graham J
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