Ethernet 3G or 4G or 5G modem ?

[Graham J]

I see numerous occasions in rural areas where a good mobile signal is
only obtainable outside a building, and sometimes even then only high up
for example at roof level.

In these same locations FTTC is never available, and ADSL is treacly slow.

There are routers which implement a WAN connection using a plug-in
3G/4G/5G modem - but the only models I've seen use USB. This limits the
cable length between the router and the modem to 3 metres. So the only
practical solution is to site the router in a waterproof box outside the
building - not very convenient.

There are routers which implement a WAN connection using Ethernet. So
what I would like is a 3G/4G/5G modem with an Ethernet connection. Even
better if it used PoE - then the modem could be sited on top of a pole
and connected with a single Ethernet cable, up to 100 metres in length.

So does anybody here know of such a product?


--
Graham J

[Woody]

EE do a 4G wi-fi router with a RJ45 connection and from what I hear from
a farming friend who uses one (albeit in a rock solid signal area) he is
getting very good speeds. AFAIK it is contract only.
Look at https://kenstechtips.com/index.php/ee-4g-home-broadband-review
Note lower down it shows an external aerial.

EE have also announced a 5G router but it is horribly expensive.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/06/ee-uk-details-new-htc-5g-hub-mobile-broadband-wifi-router.html
and again on contract only.

--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

[Tim+]

Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> I see numerous occasions in rural areas where a good mobile signal is
> only obtainable outside a building, and sometimes even then only high up
> for example at roof level.
>
> In these same locations FTTC is never available, and ADSL is treacly slow.
>
> There are routers which implement a WAN connection using a plug-in
> 3G/4G/5G modem - but the only models I've seen use USB. This limits the
> cable length between the router and the modem to 3 metres.

Is that entirely true? I know for passive usb cables there is a relatively
low limit but there are plenty of longer cables with “active signal
boosters”. It may just be snake oil and I have no personal experience but
a 10m active cable can be bought for under £12 so it might worth a punt.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[Graham J]

I see the review photo shows the external antenna, which is a
disadvantage since in the cases I've seen it would need a 20 metre feeder.

The alternative in these locations has been to install a point-to-point
wireless link from the disadvantaged site to another site where
broadband is faster. This has typically cost many hundreds of pounds
for the wireless devices (typically Engenius from Solwise) plus the need
for a cherrypicker to mount the devices high up - the customers are
usually farms which have such machines, and can make staff available to
help. So ongoing cost is not really a problem.

But I really want to use a Draytek (or similar) router for the
LAN-to-LAN VPN and the other useful features they offer.

Can these EE routers be reconfigured as modems?

--
Graham J

[Graham J]

Generally I would need much more than 10 metres.

The usual work-around has been a point-to-point wireless link from the

disadvantaged site to another site where broadband is faster.

The most recent installation I worked on required 82 metres of outdoor
grade Ethernet cable to get from the router (in an equipment cupboard)
to an Engenius ENH 500 wireless access point (mounted 10 metres up on a
barn) so as to achieve line-of-sight communication with a another ENH
500 on a barn about 10 km away.

It is likely that a 3G/4G/5G signal is only able to achieve a useful
30Mbits/sec if mounted at least 10 metres above ground, away from
buildings or large trees.

--
Graham J

[Martin Brown]

On 18/09/2019 22:59, Graham J wrote:

> I see numerous occasions in rural areas where a good mobile signal is
> only obtainable outside a building, and sometimes even then only high up
> for example at roof level.
>
> In these same locations FTTC is never available, and ADSL is treacly slow.

I know the situation well. In many rural areas there are local
initiatives (which BT tries damned hard to stamp on) with microwave link
service intended for farmers and business users that require a small
parabolic microwave disk and a *clear line of sight* to another node.
I fail on this latter criterion due to topography and trees :(

The local one here was called Clannet but has been taken over by
Quickline - you might want to look to see if there is something similar
in your neck of the woods. It gives a 20MB or 100MB connection.

https://www.quickline.co.uk/news/clannet-joins-the-quickline-clan/

People I know with it are very pleased with the service - about 20x
faster than the local ageing copper circuits on ADSL 2+.

There is also a lot of corporate bullshit from people who go round with
flashy powerpoint presentations telling us all how wonderful it is going
to be but firing all the technicians who know how to make it work.
Superfast North Yorkshire for instance have forgotten how to configure
their own website to be Google friendly (ROFL):

http://superfastnorthyorkshire.com/wherewhen#page-content

> There are routers which implement a WAN connection using a plug-in
> 3G/4G/5G modem - but the only models I've seen use USB.  This limits the
> cable length between the router and the modem to 3 metres.  So the only
> practical solution is to site the router in a waterproof box outside the
> building - not very convenient.

One of the pebble type Mifi's that will accept an external aerial and a
cheap Chinese 12dB gain yagi antenna for the band that your mobile
signal is on. In theory you put it outside but for me it works OK
through a window. Pointing is fairly critical so it needs to be on a
pan-tilt head but once set up it is relatively trouble free. Data
charges sting a bit but prices are coming down.

I settled on the Hauwei E5573s-320 4G pebble which has two external
antenna sockets although I have only ever needed to use one.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00U7POBOE

Price seems to have gone up. May well be a newer model...

>
> There are routers which implement a WAN connection using Ethernet.  So
> what I would like is a 3G/4G/5G modem with an Ethernet connection.  Even
> better if it used PoE - then the modem could be sited on top of a pole
> and connected with a single Ethernet cable, up to 100 metres in length.
>
> So does anybody here know of such a product?

Solwise is the place to look if cost is no object. eg

https://www.solwise.co.uk/3g-routers-434t.htm

I use one of their flat plate wifi antennas indoors as a range extender.


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Graham J]

Martin Brown wrote:
> On 18/09/2019 22:59, Graham J wrote:

[snip]

>
> The local one here was called Clannet but has been taken over by
> Quickline - you might want to look to see if there is something similar
> in your neck of the woods. It gives a 20MB or 100MB connection.
>
> https://www.quickline.co.uk/news/clannet-joins-the-quickline-clan/

Noted. I've registered my interest, which is for a farm complex near
Spalding.

Do you know whether they offer Ethernet presentation so I could use my
own router (probably Draytek) - given that I require multiple LAN-to-LAN
VPNs, bandwidth and usage monitoring, and other useful features not
found on more basic products.

What about pro-active connection monitoring, so they ring me as soon as
there is a failure?

[snip]

> Solwise is the place to look if cost is no object. eg
>
> https://www.solwise.co.uk/3g-routers-434t.htm

That one has been discontinued, but interesting to see they write:

"A Fail-over mode also features which allows for the redundancy of a
broadband internet connection when the 434-T is connected to a broadband
router via an Ethernet cable. If the service from your provider ever
goes down, the 434-T will awake from its idle state and connect to a 3G
network to allow for a virtually uninterrupted connection."

A friend has tried their:

<https://www.solwise.co.uk/4g-routers-rut950.html>

... but it is still a router rather than a modem, and requires external
antennae so has to be sited in an upstairs bedrooom with the antennae
cabled through the wall. So not practical for many locations.


--
Graham J

[Martin Brown]

On 19/09/2019 10:58, Graham J wrote:
> Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 18/09/2019 22:59, Graham J wrote:
>
> [snip]
>>
>> The local one here was called Clannet but has been taken over by
>> Quickline - you might want to look to see if there is something
>> similar in your neck of the woods. It gives a 20MB or 100MB connection.
>>
>> https://www.quickline.co.uk/news/clannet-joins-the-quickline-clan/
>
> Noted.  I've registered my interest, which is for a farm complex near
> Spalding.
>
> Do you know whether they offer Ethernet presentation so I could use my
> own router (probably Draytek) - given that I require multiple LAN-to-LAN
> VPNs, bandwidth and usage monitoring, and other useful features not
> found on more basic products.

I can only comment on the ones I have seen which appear to be a LNB on
the dish powered by a small amplifier module which decodes the signal to
an ethernet socket. They supply a fairly standard mid-range router. This
was with Clannet so things may be different after the takeover. There is
obviously an installation charge for putting the antenna in at height.

>
> What about pro-active connection monitoring, so they ring me as soon as
> there is a failure?

Dunno. Not been an issue here since it has never failed except during
power cuts.

> [snip]
>
>> Solwise is the place to look if cost is no object. eg
>>
>> https://www.solwise.co.uk/3g-routers-434t.htm
>
> That one has been discontinued, but interesting to see they write:
>
> "A Fail-over mode also features which allows for the redundancy of a
> broadband internet connection when the 434-T is connected to a broadband
> router via an Ethernet cable. If the service from your provider ever
> goes down, the 434-T will awake from its idle state and connect to a 3G
> network to allow for a virtually uninterrupted connection."
>
> A friend has tried their:
>
> <https://www.solwise.co.uk/4g-routers-rut950.html>
>
> ... but it is still a router rather than a modem, and requires external
> antennae so has to be sited in an upstairs bedrooom with the antennae
> cabled through the wall.  So not practical for many locations.

Although they say it is an external antenna I have found that they will
often work OK hung in a window facing in the right direction with some
dark grey paint on the window facing side so it doesn't stand out.

It is no good if you need height to see over a hill, but if it is a weak
signal due to distance then a high gain antenna may work for you too.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[R. Mark Clayton]

Teltonika 4G-RUT240 Compact Industrial 4G LTE Router ~£120

Not PoE AFAIK

You will also need an aerial.

I helped implement this for a colleague. Where he was there was poor ADSL, but a nearby 3 base station. A basic out door aerial sufficed.

If you are in an area of marginal signal then you will need to identify the location and band your nearest / best base station is on and buy and site a better aerial - e.g. a Yagi.

He uses a 3 'all you can eat' SIM for £20 per month. Works fine giving 20+MHz down and 10+MHz up. Sometimes congestion in the rush hour as he is near a railway terminus.

5G not really there yet, but might be interesting when it is.

[David Wade]

As one would expect there are a range of devices from USB1.0 which
probably is useless

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Logilink-Over-CAT-Line-Extender/dp/B001TOG6MM

through to USB2..0 to CAT5 says its good for 100 meters.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008ABNZOE

but rather expensive

Dave
G4UGM

[SH]

On 18/09/2019 22:59, Graham J wrote:

Main issue will that the SIM is inserted in teh Router.

If you have the router in a waterproof box on the top of a roof mounted
pole, if you wish to change/replace teh router, it will be a faff
involving ladders and/or roofing ladders

[Andy Burns]

SH wrote:

> Main issue will that the SIM is inserted in teh Router.

Having problems with your calendar today? :-P

[Chris Green]

You've just replied to a message from 2019, I doubt if Graham J is
still working on the problem! :-)

However, what I have is a TP-Link TL-WR843ND router which takes a SIM
directly and I use an external aerial with it so the router itself can
stay indoors. It works very well (on a boat, in France).

--
Chris Green
·

[Theo]

Absent the SIM card issue, there are things like:
https://www.outdoorrouter.com/product-category/outdoor-4g-lte-router/uk-4g-outdoor-router/

There are also solutions where you mount an antenna on the top of the pole
and a ruggedised router at the bottom of the pole (in an enclosure), which
allows easier access to the SIM card:
https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/store/wifi-routers/?t=6562&sort=1

If they supported eSIM that would avoid physically changing the SIM,
although network support for it is variable.

Theo

[SH]

yes thats what I would do, mount 4g/5g aerial on a roof pole, put teh
router on a shelf in the loft as close as poss to where the aerial is so
to keep the aerial cable short as poss.

You may well need to run power and ethernet to the router's location.

[Andy Burns]

Chris Green wrote:

> You've just replied to a message from 2019, I doubt if Graham J is still
> working on the problem!

I have a suspicion he may be, fast connections aren't easy in remote
rural locations.

[notya...@gmail.com]

Possible solutions have changed since my 2019 reply.

1. Lots of mobile routers and modems now available, some for under £30. Google up.
2. Better choice of SIM's with large or unlimited data bundles. Uswitch.com
3. 5G now established.
4. 4G bands now spread across most spectrum.

so the options are: -

2G - longest range and best building penetration (O2 & Voda), but data rate even on the best modulation limited to ~50kbps. OK for keeping up with email, very light browsing.

3G theoretical limit 14M4bps (seen), but switching off fairly soon. Good for most things, but not 4K video.

4G theoretical limit 100Mbps (76Mbps seen), some MNO's have bandwidth at 7-800MHz. Some contention in busy places and times, but good for most things.

5G theoretical limit 1,000Mbps (230Mbps seen) - fastest, but sometimes short range. The main reason for it is more connections, not lightning speed that you will probably never need nor use. Many phones now have it, but not many modems / routers.

Most mobile connections have a slower uplink than downlink.

[Tweed]

I’d dispute your 4G theoretical limit. I have a recorded speed test of
222Mbps down. This was in Oslo this year. My phone doesn’t support 5G. I’ve
also had over 110Mbs once in the UK.

[SH]

A new Three 5G mast appeared in my local library's car park.

I happen to have a 5G phone with a SMarty SIM (piggybacks onto 3)

I drove into the car park and did a speedtest on my phone....

I got 760 Mbps which is faster than my own home fibre broadband!

S.

[notya...@gmail.com]

Actually 150Mbps [and 50Mbps up], however 4g+ / LTE evolution is up to three times faster. 76Mbps was measured in 2018.