SkyHD - audio out of sync
Stan The Man
problems through the TV (Panny Viera) speakers. Not all channels are
affected but I watched the Queen Montreal concert on SkyHD the other
night and the audio must have been a full second ahead of the video.
Tonight I have been seeing similar issues with DiscoveryHD programmes.
But not all channels are affected. So is this just a case of some
broadcasters not getting it right - or do I have a problem?
Stan
BGN
wrote:
Is News 24 in sync?
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Stan The Man
> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 01:32:19 +0100, Stan The Man <m...@pr100.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Since upgrading to SkyHD I seem to be experiencing frequent audio sync
>> problems through the TV (Panny Viera) speakers. Not all channels are
>> affected but I watched the Queen Montreal concert on SkyHD the other
>> night and the audio must have been a full second ahead of the video.
>> Tonight I have been seeing similar issues with DiscoveryHD programmes.
>> But not all channels are affected. So is this just a case of some
>> broadcasters not getting it right - or do I have a problem?
>
> Is News 24 in sync?
Yes, all of the SD channels are in sync...unless I watch them on an HD
channel. For example, I watched Dispatches on Ch4 (104) on Monday night
with no sync problem but when I switched to watch the same SD programme
on Ch4HD (140) the audio was approx half a second out.
If there is no technical explanation for this I will call Sky and get
my HD box looked at. (This particular example is obviously not very
important but since the sync problem occurs in HD broadcasts which I
would like to enjoy in HD then I need to solve it).
Stan
Colin Harris
wrote:
This has happened to me a few times. Along with sudden jumping forward
when on 30x FF (almost every ad break I go through), switching off of
the machine and failed recordings if watching HD while recording
something else on HD and several others.
Just stop the recording, go back to normal viewing and then start
again. That normally sorts it. If not, switch machine right off and
try again.
Colin Harris, West Sussex, UK.
Peter Pratten
<m...@pr100.com> writes
>Yes, all of the SD channels are in sync...unless I watch them on an HD
>channel. For example, I watched Dispatches on Ch4 (104) on Monday night
>with no sync problem but when I switched to watch the same SD programme
>on Ch4HD (140) the audio was approx half a second out.
>
>If there is no technical explanation for this I will call Sky and get
>my HD box looked at. (This particular example is obviously not very
>important but since the sync problem occurs in HD broadcasts which I
>would like to enjoy in HD then I need to solve it).
There's an option in the setup to make adjustment for this. Have you
tried it?
--
Peter Pratten
Please reply in group only
Stan The Man
Yes but it doesn't help on two counts: 1) the adjustment is one-way
only: it doesn't allow me to enter a minus figure which is what would
be needed to sync; and 2) it doesn't adjust the audio on the HDMI link
- it only works with a separate audio out to an amp.
Stan
Stan The Man
Sky engineer came today and swapped out my box for a new one (and new
HDMI cable). Didn't fix the problem. As luck would have it, the Queen
concert in Montreal was on SkyArtsHD again this evening and the sync is
so bad that it is unwatchable. (Has anyone seen this HD programme -
which is repeated at least weekly - and _not_ noticed any sound
problem?)
The Sky engineer was able to see less serious instances of the sync
problem on other channels while he was here. He did think that perhaps
my new Panny plasma might be at fault -- but I was able to tell him
that I had watched FreeSat programmes on it for a week before upgrading
to SkyHD and hadn't noticed any sync issues then.
Just in case my LNB might be flaky, I even had a new one fitted
yesterday, so that isn't the problem either.
The only other possible culprit (assuming that some SkyHD subscribers
are not experiencing sync problems) is a faulty batch of Thomson HD
boxes. There are alreay known audio bugs with the Thomson boxes and/or
the software, including an unintentional change in volume level when
switching from an SD channel to an HD one. Some new models from Pace
and Samsung are due out at any moment so I will ask to switch to one of
these in a last-ditch attempt to cure my ills.
Stan
Mark Carver
>
> Just in case my LNB might be flaky, I even had a new one fitted
> yesterday, so that isn't the problem either.
It won't be the LNB. The problem will be at the MPEG/Dolby decoding layer, or
down stream of that, nothing to do the QSPK reception and demod.
The HD channels all have Dolby audio steams. The SD channels don't.
The SD channels just use the DVB-S standard MPEG audio channel, the HD
channels send audio on these too, for 2 channel audio, but the Sky HD box
derives HD channel audio from the Dolby stream. It should pass this stream up
the HDMI lead to your TV set, so the problem could well be within the TV. Are
you sure the TV has no adjustment menus for delay ? See if you can select
(again on the TV menu) ordinary 2 channel audio as the source, rather than the
Dolby version. I suspect the key to your problem lies there.
--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
BGN
wrote:
>The only other possible culprit (assuming that some SkyHD subscribers
>are not experiencing sync problems) is a faulty batch of Thomson HD
>boxes. There are alreay known audio bugs with the Thomson boxes and/or
>the software, including an unintentional change in volume level when
>switching from an SD channel to an HD one. Some new models from Pace
>and Samsung are due out at any moment so I will ask to switch to one of
>these in a last-ditch attempt to cure my ills.
Sounds like a dodgy TV then. Have you got any other HDMI sources? Or
can you change the SkyHD box to output uncompressed audio or somesuch
to test?
Stan The Man
> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:23:31 +0100, Stan The Man <m...@pr100.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The only other possible culprit (assuming that some SkyHD subscribers
>> are not experiencing sync problems) is a faulty batch of Thomson HD
>> boxes. There are alreay known audio bugs with the Thomson boxes and/or
>> the software, including an unintentional change in volume level when
>> switching from an SD channel to an HD one. Some new models from Pace
>> and Samsung are due out at any moment so I will ask to switch to one of
>> these in a last-ditch attempt to cure my ills.
>
> Sounds like a dodgy TV then. Have you got any other HDMI sources? Or
> can you change the SkyHD box to output uncompressed audio or somesuch
> to test?
Spoke to Panasonic today and they claim to have had zero reports of
sync problems, either with my 'FreeSat' TV or with the similar 85
model. Because some channels sync perfectly, they said it wasn't a TV
problem and they referred me back to Sky. This ping-pong could go on
for a while... Fortunately, I have lucked upon a truly helpful and
determined Sky engineer (not an independent) who seems prepared to go
the extra mile to rule out a Sky problem (or confirm one). Could take
weeks though.
Unfortunately, I don't have any other HDMI TVs here to test with -- but
I have tried a scart connection instead of HDMI and this seems to
improve, but not eradicate, the problem but without HD video of course.
I don't think there are any other audio options on the SkyHD box, apart
from a Dobly/Stereo switch and an audio delay timer which only works on
an optical output (it does nothing via HDMI). Anyway, I would need to
accelerate the audio to fix my problem and this feature can't do that.
In any event, I would need to set a different audio speed for different
channels and that would be an unacceptable degree of hassle for me.
Stan
Stan The Man
The TV has no such feature. The SkyHD box does of course -- but it
makes no noticeable difference when switching it between Stereo and
Dolby.
Stan
BGN
wrote:
>Unfortunately, I don't have any other HDMI TVs here to test with -- but
>I have tried a scart connection instead of HDMI and this seems to
>improve, but not eradicate, the problem but without HD video of course.
>
>I don't think there are any other audio options on the SkyHD box, apart
>from a Dobly/Stereo switch and an audio delay timer which only works on
>an optical output (it does nothing via HDMI). Anyway, I would need to
>accelerate the audio to fix my problem and this feature can't do that.
>In any event, I would need to set a different audio speed for different
>channels and that would be an unacceptable degree of hassle for me.
It still sounds like a telly problem, if it reduces when using the
SCART output. Does your TV have any audio delay settings?
Mark Carver
> It still sounds like a telly problem, if it reduces when using the
> SCART output. Does your TV have any audio delay settings?
Stan has already said no such feature exists on the TV.
Stan The Man
> On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 03:05:26 +0100, Stan The Man <m...@pr100.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, I don't have any other HDMI TVs here to test with -- but
>> I have tried a scart connection instead of HDMI and this seems to
>> improve, but not eradicate, the problem but without HD video of course.
>>
>> I don't think there are any other audio options on the SkyHD box, apart
>> from a Dobly/Stereo switch and an audio delay timer which only works on
>> an optical output (it does nothing via HDMI). Anyway, I would need to
>> accelerate the audio to fix my problem and this feature can't do that.
>> In any event, I would need to set a different audio speed for different
>> channels and that would be an unacceptable degree of hassle for me.
>
> It still sounds like a telly problem, if it reduces when using the
> SCART output. Does your TV have any audio delay settings?
No - the only related function is an option to switch the speaker
position setting from 'less than 30cm from the wall' to 'more than 30cm
from the wall'. This does make a marginal difference, even when the
sound is played exclusively through the TV's built-in speakers, but it
isn't a cure.
A friend with a Samsung HD TV is prepared to bring it over in the next
few days for comparison with the Panny.
I also still need to rule out the possibility that some programmes are
badly encoded at source, although I find it difficult to believe that
Sky would keep re-broadcasting the Queen Montreal concert on SkyArtsHD
if it had a soundtrack fault on the scale that I see. Still hoping to
hear from other Queen fans who have been able to enjoy this HD
broadcast without the 1sec audio delay that I get.
Stan
Mark Carver
> I don't think there are any other audio options on the SkyHD box, apart
> from a Dobly/Stereo switch and an audio delay timer which only works on
> an optical output (it does nothing via HDMI). Anyway, I would need to
> accelerate the audio to fix my problem and this feature can't do that.
> In any event, I would need to set a different audio speed for different
> channels and that would be an unacceptable degree of hassle for me.
Assuming this is the TV's manual:-
Or
What happens if you force the HDMI 1 input to 'analogue' from the Audio menu ?
See page 22
BGN
wrote:
>> It still sounds like a telly problem, if it reduces when using the
>> SCART output. Does your TV have any audio delay settings?
>
>No - the only related function is an option to switch the speaker
>position setting from 'less than 30cm from the wall' to 'more than 30cm
>from the wall'. This does make a marginal difference, even when the
>sound is played exclusively through the TV's built-in speakers, but it
>isn't a cure.
>
>A friend with a Samsung HD TV is prepared to bring it over in the next
>few days for comparison with the Panny.
>
>I also still need to rule out the possibility that some programmes are
>badly encoded at source, although I find it difficult to believe that
>Sky would keep re-broadcasting the Queen Montreal concert on SkyArtsHD
>if it had a soundtrack fault on the scale that I see. Still hoping to
>hear from other Queen fans who have been able to enjoy this HD
>broadcast without the 1sec audio delay that I get.
I remember reading, somewhere like uk.media.dvd or suchlike that there
was an awful sound delay on a Queen DVD, but one would assume the
source would be different.
Stan The Man
Stan The Man
> On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:02:15 +0100, Stan The Man <m...@pr100.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> It still sounds like a telly problem, if it reduces when using the
>>> SCART output. Does your TV have any audio delay settings?
>>
>> No - the only related function is an option to switch the speaker
>> position setting from 'less than 30cm from the wall' to 'more than 30cm
>> from the wall'. This does make a marginal difference, even when the
>> sound is played exclusively through the TV's built-in speakers, but it
>> isn't a cure.
>>
>> A friend with a Samsung HD TV is prepared to bring it over in the next
>> few days for comparison with the Panny.
>>
>> I also still need to rule out the possibility that some programmes are
>> badly encoded at source, although I find it difficult to believe that
>> Sky would keep re-broadcasting the Queen Montreal concert on SkyArtsHD
>> if it had a soundtrack fault on the scale that I see. Still hoping to
>> hear from other Queen fans who have been able to enjoy this HD
>> broadcast without the 1sec audio delay that I get.
>
> I remember reading, somewhere like uk.media.dvd or suchlike that there
> was an awful sound delay on a Queen DVD, but one would assume the
> source would be different.
My mistake - it's actually an audio advance, not delay (if such a term exists).
Stan
Vincent
"Stan The Man" <m...@pr100.com> wrote in message
news:48b977c2$0$26083$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
When using HDMI, the signal is sent digitally. When an HD signal is being
sent to your TV, there is a LOT more information than with a SD signal.
Thus, it takes longer (more processing) for your TV to decrypt and decode an
HD signal and display it, than it does an SD signal. This is why you hear
the sound of someone speaking before you see their lips move.
The SkyHD box can add a delay to the optical out (I have mine set to 80ms)
to solve this for people using optical Dolby sound systems. Your TV should
do this automatically if you're just using the TV speakers and an HDMI lead.
Your other digi box may well have been sending different signals to your TV
which is why the Audio was in sync. Was it sending true 1080i for example?
I can think of a few reasons why this may be:
1) Your TV is broken.
2) Your TV is just one of those ones that don't do Audio properly with
proper HD signals.
3) You have to set the audio delay manually in the setup somewhere.
4) Your TV is working out the Audio delay based on the resolution of visual
data it's receiving. E.g. it'll assume an HD audio mode when it receives a
1080i signal. Try playing with the Resolution setting in the Sky setup menu.
Most Sky installers set this to 1080i all of the time which is wrong but
compatible with more TVs. Try Automatic and see if that helps. In Automatic
mode it'll send the correct resolution and aspect ratio to your TV based on
the what the Sky Box is receiving, but some TVs can't handle various
different resolutions.
If the above fail, your options are:
1) Get a different TV.
2) Watch Sky through a SCART lead (this works for HD channels too, but it'll
not looks as good as when using an HDMI lead of course).
3) Get a proper sound system.
I'd go for 3, because a decent 5.1 sound system, in my humble opinion,
improves your enjoyment of watching TV a lot more than upgrading to HD does.
They're highly underrated.
Hope this helps.
--
V
Stan The Man
veritable hornet's nest of unhappy Sky HD subscribers, all reporting
lip sync problems -- across different HD boxes, different TVs and even
different Sky software versions.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=815522
It seems that Sky are "working on it" so will hopefully conjure up a fix soon.
Stan
Mark Carver
> 2) Watch Sky through a SCART lead (this works for HD channels too, but it'll
> not looks as good as when using an HDMI lead of course).
Well no, you'll be watching the HD channels downconverted to SD !
> 3) Get a proper sound system.
>
> I'd go for 3, because a decent 5.1 sound system, in my humble opinion,
> improves your enjoyment of watching TV a lot more than upgrading to HD does.
> They're highly underrated.
I agree that's the best way to hear the sound. In any case the speakers in
most LCD screens are very poor.
Vincent
> Not all shows are DD5.1 of course. Some aren't even stereo. But I find
> that mono audio fed to all six speakers (the same signal to each - none
> of this fancy phasing rubbish) sounds *much* better than from a single
> speaker alone, or even the front pair. I wouldn't be without my 5.1 amp.
I quite agree, but I personally find using Dolby Pro Logic II (Movie) sounds
best for all non-DD5.1 sources. It's personal preference, and with a proper
sound system at least you always have the *choice* of what mode you use, and
a variety of options and adjustments to play with. You can also eliminate
the sync issue through the optical delay. The downside is the cost, space,
and cables.
There's another related common problem in that a lot of people find that
watching HD content through the TV speakers (and hence usually a DD5.1 audio
played out of the two TV speakers by just ignoring the two rear, centre, and
bass speakers) results in the lower dynamic range compression hitting them.
Speech becomes barely audible and loud sounds can be heard in the next town
and people find themselves constantly having to adjust the volume. This was
my reason for upgrading to a proper sound system and it fixed the problem
entirely after upping the volume on the centre speaker (for most dialogue)
slightly and using a small amount of Dynamic Range Compression.
--
Vincent
Dave Healey
Well perhaps if Broadcasters could come up with a common goal on how the
audio is laid onto the tape in relation to the vision, that might be a
start.
Discovery for example put their 5.1 audio 1 frame advanced of the vision, I
think the BBC put theirs in Sync with the Vision. If the engineers who
review the programmers are confused just think what the automatic droids at
the transmission centre will be like.
Just for the record I have a Dabs Value 32" LCD, a Onkyo Audio system, Sky
HD fed to the amp via Optical with a 40mS delay on the feed, the HDMI cable
goes to the amp and then up to the LCD. I haven't seen any major lip sync
errors such as the ones reported here, if there is something wrong - I find
a reboot of the Sky HD box sorts it out :)
Personally I wouldn't even think of using the audio from a HDMI cable or a
TV's internal speaker system, your missing all the fun with the 5.1 :)
Dave
Dave H
Can't answer that but Mark Carver may have given an indication of my
understanding in an earlier part of this thread.
Just think what your connecting to, if your connecting HDMI to a tv and no
amp.
How many speakers is there on the TV, do you get any dialogue on the Tv
speakers ?
If yes then the 5.1 is being converted somewhere to stereo.
Dave
Nigel Barker
<{$mrtickle$}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In <48db8578$0$2917$fa0f...@news.zen.co.uk>, "Dave Healey"
><100...@z.e.n.c.o.u.k> wrote:
>
>>Personally I wouldn't even think of using the audio from a HDMI cable or a
>>TV's internal speaker system, your missing all the fun with the 5.1 :)
>
>Eh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
>I agree about TV speakers, but HDMI is perfectly capable of carrying 5.1
>audio. And more newer audio formats than SP/DIF or Toslink. In the past
>people used to use their amp as a video/audio switch (often with inferior
>S-Video signals because amps didn't support RGB scart). We've waited all
>these years for a decent connector which carries the highest quality audio
>and video down one cable, so that life can be easy and the amps can do the
>switching. Are you saying Sky can't be bothered to send 5.1 out of their
>HDMI output?
If you want DD 5.1 from your Sky HD digibox then you must use the optical
S/PDIF as the HDMI only carries stereo PCM.
--
Cheers
Nigel Barker
Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur