British Rocket Flying Association
Bob
rupture in UKRA...?
Cheers,
--
Bob.
spacecadet
btw no-one posts here anymore, as you can see.
Bob
> Bob wrote:
> > What is the British Rocket Flying Association...? Has there be a
> > rupture in UKRA...?
>
I know that much, was just wondering why we needed it.
> btw no-one posts here anymore, as you can see.
No shit. About time we reclaimed it...
Cheers,
--
Bob.
Richard Brown
Hi Bob, yes BRFA is an alternative that I am starting with a few other
rocketeers. Many rocketeers out there are disbondant with UKRA, due
to lack of guidance, promotion and events and many said to me they
aren't renewing next year because they don't get anything for the
money. I thought it was better to have an alternative to UKRA than
lose rocketeers from the community. EMail roc...@brfa.org.uk if you
need more info.
Richard
spacecadet
>to lack of guidance, promotion and events and many said to me they
>aren't renewing next year because they don't get anything for the
>money.
Not the first unattributable and uncheckable assertion from this source.
OP, might I suggest that you canvass a somewhat wider opinion on this.
Richard Brown
No need to ask a wider audience, its already been done. Its in your
own UKRA AGM minutes.
spacecadet
that.
OP, cast your net a bit wider than utr, whose continued existence is
being debated atm.
And that's NOT an assertion. That's a fact the OP can check.
Peter Fairbrother
> OP, cast your net a bit wider than utr, whose continued existence is
> being debated atm.
> And that's NOT an assertion. That's a fact the OP can check.
??
Afaik only Usenet-UK have any power to end utr's continued existence,
and I haven't seen anything in uk.net.news.announce.
-- Peter Fairbrother (not the OP)
spacecadet
discussed within the rocketry community.
Peter Fairbrother
usefulness != continued existence
On a more general note, UKRA is still the official oversight body
(really, in law - like utr it's continued existence is part of a bigger
legislative process, one which in UKRA's case begins aiui with the
Crown, then Parliament, then back to the Crown, then the RFC, then BMFA,
then UKRA).
A few years ago it was all fairly great, but then Pete D or someone
stopped letting people use Pete/someone's KLOB farm site for KLOB and
UKRA annual launches. No bad to Pete here btw.
The subsidiary clubs like Black Knights and EARS and the various Scots
are still going well afaik, but the UKRA annual launch, which also
included the national AGM meeting of UKRA, no longer had a site for
launches at the AGM (which would bring the members together).
I haven't been keeping up in detail since, but afaict no-one has found a
suitable UKRA annual AGM launch site since.
And that's the holy grail.
Or perhaps it's half of it - people want big spaces, but they also want
high altitude waivers. The big-open-spaces bit is perhaps more suitable
for getting many people to come, the high-waivers-bit is perhaps better
for getting them really interested.
Nothing else BRFA does will count for much overall, really, and if UKRA
doesn't find a site and BRFA or somebody else does then UKRA will
eventually fall. There isn't room for two, even two halves, as above.
I don't know exactly why use of the Lincolnshire farm site was stopped.
At least partly it was because Pete was getting a bit bored, but another
thing might have been the bang - the KLOB/UKRA meets often had fireworks
people as well as rocket people, who did a fireworks display after the
rockets on the last day, and the last fireworks display was quite a bit
more than "YOU'RE ONLY SUPPOSED TO BLOW THE BLOODY DOORS OFF" loud.
Fun though ;)
Also I heard that there had been various sorts of trouble in earlier years.
Did the farmers get paid enough to compensate for this and all the rest?
I rather doubt it.
Camping was super-cheap, almost free - might have just about paid for
the hire of the toilets, but I doubt the farmer got much if anything
from that. Don't know about the food van, but they didn't charge overly
- what site fees did the farmer get from them? From Merchant's Row?
There was a nice big shed, but I think it's construction or renewal or
something was paid for by - not sure, UKRA members? Don't think that
was very relevant though.
If someone copies this to the UKRA lists I'd be pleased about it. You
can read them, or some of them, even if not a member, by asking Cat
if-she's-still-there for a password. And they have done lots and lots of
good work in the past, long history of few accidents, Charles's tireless
(if slow) and eventually successful work with the HSE, and so on.
-- Peter Fairbrother
Richard Brown
Hi Peter
I hope we can prove you wrong with regard the usefulness of BRFA.
We already have an event and site sorted for an annual event next
year.
We are already in discussions with authorities regarding guidance and
advice consistency across the country.
We have already published our motor list for guidance.
We are already into planning of promotional items that will appear
next year.
With regard your statement
"On a more general note, UKRA is still the official oversight body"
it isnt and never really has been, they have no more authority to
represent rocketeers in the UK with the authorities than any other
rocket group or body. The CAA, HSE and police offer no weight to UKRA
over anyone else at all. How can UKRA represent rocketry when they
have 170 members ? and thousands take part in rocketry, hardly
representative.
Richard
Peter Fairbrother
> Hi Peter
>
> I hope we can prove you wrong with regard the usefulness of BRFA.
>
> We already have an event and site sorted for an annual event next
> year.
> We are already in discussions with authorities regarding guidance and
> advice consistency across the country.
Who? I don't think you should be, and certainly not as a "we".
> We have already published our motor list for guidance.
Is that a list of motors for sale? - Where??
> We are already into planning of promotional items that will appear
> next year.
Promo items are (by definition) more for your benefit than ours.
Well, in time we will see what actual value you offer.
> With regard your statement
>
> "On a more general note, UKRA is still the official oversight body"
> it isnt and never really has been, they have no more authority to
> represent rocketeers in the UK with the authorities than any other
> rocket group or body. The CAA, HSE and police offer no weight to UKRA
> over anyone else at all. How can UKRA represent rocketry when they
> have 170 members ? and thousands take part in rocketry, hardly
> representative.
Wasn't talking about representation/membership, but about legal
authority, as in UK law - which they do have, though it doesn't mean an
aweful lot.
They get it from the BMFA, who have designated them as the relevant body
for model rockets - or something like that, I'm only going from old
memories and please don't quote me too hard.
The BMFA have been given the authority to do this from the RFC (Royal
Flying Club), who get their authority from the ANO or something (not
entirely sure here, but I heard the ANO is involved), which comes from
the Crown (to the RFC) via Parliament (via the ANO) via the Crown, as I
understand it all - which I don't really.
-- Peter Fairbrother
Peter Fairbrother
The CAA, HSE and police offer no weight to UKRA
> over anyone else at all.
I'm no lawyer, but in practice the HSE and Police most definitely do.
Don't know about the CAA.
-- Peter Fairbrother
Richard Brown
The motor list is on the BRFA website. It isnt a motor list for sale,
it is a list of motors that are allowed at BRFA events. The list is
provided as guidance to help rocketeers know the motor has gone
through a process to try and ensure it is legal for use in the UK.
The promotion isn't promo items, apologies, it should have been
events, it is promotion of rocketry as a hobby and in education. If
we want the hobby to grow we have to promote it.
The BMFA have no legal authority in anything, they are just an
association which is a member of the Royal Aero club responsible for
models. They have no legal authority to hand down.
The CAA is there as are HSE and police to facilitate for any and all.
We are all their customers.
Richard
Peter Fairbrother
> The BMFA have no legal authority in anything, they are just an
> association which is a member of the Royal Aero club responsible for
> models. They have no legal authority to hand down.
I don't think BMFA would agree.
And without their agreement, insurance would be problematic at best.
But you may actually be right, and the BMFA have really actually had
none of the authority they have claimed since 1922 at all, and ..
-- Peter Fair
Richard Brown
Insurance isnt legal authority. They have no legal authority, they
don't claim to have any legal authority either. They are a self
regulating governing body for models. Give them a ring Peter, they
will tell you the same thing.
Peter Fairbrother
I expect so. And they won't (or they might) tell me what authority they
have to govern.
Hmmm. Might be nice to sort this out, and I don't claim to really know
what's what going on here, I'm only going by what others claim.
I suspect though that claiming governance for 90 years, uncontested,
plus having the Queen as Patron, and some "Royal"s in there, wins
outright. You'd lose.
Not to say that you can't do x - but that you can't claim to govern the
doing of x.
But I am not a lawyer, thanks be!
btw bye, won't be back here that soon
-- Peter F
grumpyboab
<zenad...@zen.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>Afaik only Usenet-UK have any power to end utr's continued existence,
>and I haven't seen anything in uk.net.news.announce.
I instigated the original RFD for UTR along with help from a few
friends we got it up and running, but noticed it was falling away as a
lot of newsgroups are, as forums are easier to set up and monitor.
So I had asked around about issuing another RFD to remove the group
and was just about to do that.
--
bob
---------------------------------
True bravery is arriving home late after a boy's night out, being
assaulted by your wife with a broom, and still having the guts to ask:
"Are you cleaning, or were you flying somewhere"?
---------------------------------