Reallignment of Sky Dish to pick up Eurobird 1
Vicky
I am having some problems picking anything up on my freesat box. I am
currently receiving sky so have been told I need to reallign the dish
to 28.5 Degrees and this will then pick up freesat. However, other
people have said that they are so close together if you are picking up
one you will gwet the other? Can someone please advise? Do I need to
move the dish? Take back the box ? or buy a satellite meter to measure
we are in the right place ?
Thabnks
--
Vicky
Terry Casey
Sky and Freesat both use exactly the same signals from satellites
located at 28.2 & 28.5 degrees so what you've been told is true - if you
can 'see' one, you'll also 'see' the other.
The only difference is that Freesat uses a special Freesat Electronic
Programme Guide - everything else is the same.
If you're having no problems with your Sky box, your Freesat box should
work as well. if your signal is marginal, for some reason, to the extent
that the Freesat box won't work, you'd expect to see problems with the
Sky box as well.
If want to rule out all other possibilities, and if you haven't already
done so, take the input from the Sky box and try it on the Freesat box.
If it works, you know you'll have to look elsewhere: if it doesn't, take
the box back.
If there's anything I've overlooked, I'm sure somebody more
knowledgeable will be along soon to let you know!
Terry
Java Jive
<Vicky....@homecinemabanter.com> wrote:
> I am having some problems picking anything up on my freesat box. I am
> currently receiving sky
So the first question to ask is: How are you connecting the Freesat
box? As a first attempt to check that it's working, disconnect the
Sky box and reconnect the Freesat box in it's place.
Other arrangements are possible, but I'd start with that one as being
the surest way to get a result.
Briefly, the other methods are:
1) If the Freesat box has a facility known as LoopThrough, to connect
it in between the Sky box and the dish, connecting the dish to the
Signal In (it may be called something similar but not exactly the same
on your particular box) and the Sky box to the Signal Out.
2) If you have a sky set up with a multiple outlet LNB and therefore
multiple downleads, then you may be able to connect the Freesat box to
a second downlead. However, I believe some multiple output LNBs
require power to be supplied to one particular 'output' to power the
LNB, so unless this is done all the outputs will be dead.
Hence, to avoid such complexities as a first test, connect the Freesat
box in place of the Sky box.
> so have been told I need to reallign the dish
> to 28.5 Degrees and this will then pick up freesat.
See below ...
> However, other
> people have said that they are so close together if you are picking up
> one you will gwet the other?
Sky and Freesat use satellites in the same cluster ...
http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.html
... so usually no adjustment should be needed. However it is true
that the satellites in the cluster - comprising Eurobird 1 and Astra
2A, 2B, and 2D - are not all quite in the same position. In
particular, Eurobird 1 is nominally at 28.5E, while the Astra
satellites are nominally at 28.2E. Hence it is possible that if your
dish is pointing slightly too far east, you may pick up Eurobird 1 but
not Astra.
However, I would look at the way you're connecting the box first.
> Can someone please advise?
I have some webpages on DIY satellite TV which may help answer other
questions that may occur to you:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/AudioVisualTV/SatelliteTV/SatelliteTV.html
> Do I need to move the dish?
It's possible. Study the Lyngsat page linked above, which lists
details of the channels available from the cluster. Note that there
are links in the top banner that give a similar listing on a per
satellite basis. If, when you connect the Freesat box, you can only
find channels that are on Eurobird 1, and none from the Astra
satellites, then perhaps you could try nudging the dish a little to
the west.
My site linked above also has a calculator page for checking
alignment, which can show the alignment on a satellite photo or your
locality,but if you are already receiving Sky, then probably you are
beyond that stage already.
> Take back the box?
It may be faulty, but check out the above first.
> buy a satellite meter to measure
> we are in the right place ?
The satellite meter, may help, but, rather as with a pointer on a
satellite or aerial photo, you're probably beyond that stage. Unless
it's very sophisticated, a meter will merely squeal when any signal is
being received, but give you no idea of which satellite the signal is
from. Hence it's main use in determining initial alignment, which you
have already achieved. However, if the method below fails, it may be
worth the expense of �10-20 and using it to centre the dish both E-W
and up-down on the combined signal from the cluster.
However, you already have a better meter, in the menus of the set top
boxes. Both should be able to give a signal read out. Of course, the
disadvantage of this method is that, unless you can get a power
supply, a set top box, and a portable TV to where the dish is, the
person adjusting the dish can't see the display on the TV. In the
past I have use binoculars to read the display on the ground from high
on a ladder against the gable end. Another alternative is to have
someone call out the information on the TV screen to someone outside
adjusting the dish.
--
=========================================================
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
Stephen
news:Vicky....@homecinemabanter.com...
They are so close together that if you are picking up one you will get the
other, but your dish may not be well aligned anyway. Eurobird 1 signals tend
to be weaker than the rest in my experience (even though they're not meant
to be), so they are the first to go if your dish installation is a bit off.
Realign it, check the polarisation offset, clean it, check the cable ends
haven't got wet & remake them if necessary, and/or get a bigger dish.
John Legon
news:6lvdm5tn8pvrv2jbp...@4ax.com...
> > I am having some problems picking anything up on my freesat box. I >> am
currently receiving sky
> > Do I need to move the dish?
> > buy a satellite meter to measure
> > we are in the right place ?
>
> The satellite meter, may help, but, rather as with a pointer on a
> satellite or aerial photo, you're probably beyond that stage. Unless
> it's very sophisticated, a meter will merely squeal when any signal is
> being received, but give you no idea of which satellite the signal is
> from. Hence it's main use in determining initial alignment, which you
> have already achieved.
A decent but inexpensive satellite meter will do much more than merely
squeal when any signal is being received, but will give you a precise
indication of the correct dish alignment. True, it won't tell you which
satellite you are on (unless it's the expensive professional variety), but
the assumption here is that the dish is already aligned towards the Freesat
satellite cluster.
This being the case, and assuming that the receiver isn't faulty and is
properly connected, I would suggest the use of a meter as the next step in
trying to solve the problem. It may be the case that the Freesat receiver
is less sensitive than the Sky box, and that the dish alignment needs to be
tweaked to get a better signal.
Once the meter is connected between LNB and receiver, it is not a question
of squeal or no squeal, but of an audible tone which rises and falls in
pitch as the dish is moved towards or away from the satellite. With the
Philex meter that I use, I find that a slight nudge on the dish will give a
change of tone, depending upon whether the alignment is being made more or
less accurate.
To do this, however, it is essential that the sensitivity control on the
meter is correctly adjusted. In the present case - a signal already being
present - the control is turned up until the meter begins to squeal and
about half the LEDs on the meter are lit up . Now move the dish very
slightly sideways. Does the pitch rise or fall? If the pitch rises you are
going in right direction, but if it falls then you are going the wrong way.
If the tone falls off in both directions then you will know that the
horizontal alignment is already as good as it can be, and you can tighten up
the clamp for horizontal adjustment. If, on the other hand, the signal
increases to the extent that the meter goes out range and all the LEDs are
lit, back off the sensitivity control and repeat the process until no
further improvement can be obtained. Then repeat the process for vertical
alignment and "skew".
> However, if the method below fails, it may be
> worth the expense of �10-20 and using it to centre the dish both E-W
> and up-down on the combined signal from the cluster.
The SLX-Philex meter costs about �10 and is very definitely worth it.
> However, you already have a better meter, in the menus of the set top
> boxes. Both should be able to give a signal read out. Of course, the
> disadvantage of this method is that, unless you can get a power
> supply, a set top box, and a portable TV to where the dish is, the
> person adjusting the dish can't see the display on the TV. In the
> past I have use binoculars to read the display on the ground from high
> on a ladder against the gable end. Another alternative is to have
> someone call out the information on the TV screen to someone
> outside adjusting the dish.
I have tried using my receiver's meter but didn't find it very practical.
Note that the display takes a couple of seconds to respond to changes in
signal caused by a movement of the dish. Much better to use a meter which
responds instantly with a varying audible tone, and tells you what's going
on without having to watch a tv screen.
John L
Woody
news:UJudnQeqSPrWsPrW...@brightview.co.uk...
The ain't nothing <less> sensitive than a Sky box!!
--
Woody
harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
Java Jive
<jo...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> A decent but inexpensive satellite meter will do much more than merely
> squeal when any signal is being received
[snip instructions on how to use a sat meter]
> > However, you already have a better meter, in the menus of the set top
> > boxes. Both should be able to give a signal read out. Of course, the
> > disadvantage of this method is that, unless you can get a power
> > supply, a set top box, and a portable TV to where the dish is, the
> > person adjusting the dish can't see the display on the TV. In the
> > past I have use binoculars to read the display on the ground from high
> > on a ladder against the gable end. Another alternative is to have
> > someone call out the information on the TV screen to someone
> > outside adjusting the dish.
>
> I have tried using my receiver's meter but didn't find it very practical.
Well, I guess it partly depends on the meter, and partly on the
receiver. I also have an SLX meter, and it's nothing like as accurate
as you claim. At the end of the day, it's the receiver that has to
turn the signal into pictures, so in cases of doubt such as the OP's,
the receiver should have the final word.
John Legon
> On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:36:41 -0000, "John Legon"
> <jo...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > I have tried using my receiver's meter but didn't find it very
practical.
>
> Well, I guess it partly depends on the meter, and partly on the
> receiver. I also have an SLX meter, and it's nothing like as accurate
> as you claim.
The problem with the SLX meter is that the sensitivity control is itself
very sensitive. Initially, when adjusting it, it seemed to me that the LEDs
were either all on or all off, giving the squeal or no squeal effect, Once
the operating point has been found, however, it really is highly effective,
and ultimately gives the same result as the receiver's built-in meter - but
with less hassle (for me anyway).
J G Miller
> The problem with the SLX meter is that the sensitivity control is itself
> very sensitive. Initially, when adjusting it, it seemed to me that the
> LEDs were either all on or all off, giving the squeal or no squeal
> effect,
LEDs? Presumably this is not the SLX model to which you are referring,
<http://www.dastv.co.UK/shop/SLx_Satellite_Meter__Finder_634.php>
since this SLX model works extremely well and does not have the problem
of some meters of a sudden all or nothing effect on turning down
the sensitivity.
widgitt
1) Many people forget how important the "skew" (or rotational) setting
of the LNB is to performance and most basic meters dont help with
this, they just give an overall strength reading.
If you dont have any other way of doing it, you can generally
aproximate by setting the LNB vertical, then looking from the front of
the dish, rotate it a few degrees clockwise.
2) Something which caught me out on a number of occasions recently
untill I realised what was going on is that the current cheap SD
Freesat receivers, Grundig etc, (which are all similar and from
Harvard) will not work on some channels with some LNBs.
I have sent some back, swapped them over, and tried all sorts. Sky
boxes and other non-Freesat boxes have worked perfectly on the same
feed etc. I was getting desperate until I tried an attenuator at the
input to the receiver. Bingo, all was well, and has been every time
there has been a problem. A 3 or 6 db satellite attenuator seems to be
about right.
The boxes are swamped when the output of the LNB is too high and this
seems to be the case particularly with some quad LNBs.
John Legon
It's not the same model. The meter I've been using is the SLx "Satellite
Finder with Compass" which is shown about one-third of the way down this
page:
http://www.beststuff.co.uk/satellite_tv_accessories.htm
This includes a short jumper lead for connecting to the LNB. Note that the
control knob isn't shown in the photo and has to be fitted by the user. My
unit is actually branded Philex and came with their satellite dish/receiver
kit.
The same meter is available through Amazon under different names for between
�9.79 and �24.49
John L
John Legon
news:0ff04165-f4fd-40c8...@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> Two things.
>
> 1) Many people forget how important the "skew" (or rotational) setting
> of the LNB is to performance and most basic meters dont help with
> this, they just give an overall strength reading.
I initially took my skew angles from dishpointer.com, but also checked the
result using the signal-quality meter on the receiver. Hopefully, though,
the skew of the OP's LNB will have been set by the Sky installer and won't
need attention.
> If you dont have any other way of doing it, you can generally
> aproximate by setting the LNB vertical, then looking from the front of
> the dish, rotate it a few degrees clockwise.
When I added a third LNB to my dish last week, I simply used the same skew
as the first two. There may be some scope for improvement, but probably not
enough to make any practical difference.
> 2) Something which caught me out on a number of occasions recently
> untill I realised what was going on is that the current cheap SD
> Freesat receivers, Grundig etc, (which are all similar and from
> Harvard) will not work on some channels with some LNBs.
> I have sent some back, swapped them over, and tried all sorts. Sky
> boxes and other non-Freesat boxes have worked perfectly on the same
> feed etc. I was getting desperate until I tried an attenuator at the
> input to the receiver. Bingo, all was well, and has been every time
> there has been a problem. A 3 or 6 db satellite attenuator seems to be
> about right.
> The boxes are swamped when the output of the LNB is too high and this
> seems to be the case particularly with some quad LNBs.
That's very interesting !!
John L
>
Roger R
"widgitt" <pra...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:0ff04165-f4fd-40c8...@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> 2) Something which caught me out on a number of occasions recently
> untill I realised what was going on is that the current cheap SD
> Freesat receivers, Grundig etc, (which are all similar and from
> Harvard) will not work on some channels with some LNBs.
> I have sent some back, swapped them over, and tried all sorts. Sky
> boxes and other non-Freesat boxes have worked perfectly on the same
> feed etc. I was getting desperate until I tried an attenuator at the
> input to the receiver. Bingo, all was well, and has been every time
> there has been a problem. A 3 or 6 db satellite attenuator seems to be
> about right.
It sounds to me that there is an impedence mismatch somewhere in the LNB >
Receiver. If there is not a cable fault I suspect the receiver input is so
poorly designed that it cannot provide a 50 ohm impedence across the band.
The mismatch is causing standing waves on the line and overloading the
signal at some frequencies and a weak signal at other frequencies. The
attenuator is providing an impedence match that significantly reduces the
standing waves and thereby an even signal level is achieved across the whole
band, with of course a 3db reduction.
Roger R
Java Jive
<pra...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Two things.
>
> 1) Many people forget how important the "skew" (or rotational) setting
> of the LNB is to performance and most basic meters dont help with
> this, they just give an overall strength reading.
>
> If you dont have any other way of doing it, you can generally
> aproximate by setting the LNB vertical, then looking from the front of
> the dish, rotate it a few degrees clockwise.
Many people, and some calculator sites, do not realise that the
Hotbird and Astra satellites have non-standard skews. My calculator
gives the correct value, so does DP, but I've definitely encountered
some that don't. I've posted this information before, but it probably
does no harm to repeat it, the adjustments needed to the naormal skew
values are:
Hot Bird +3.5�
Astra +7.5�
However, if you have a rotor system, you can't set for non-standard
skews on one or two satellites, you set the LNB to be vertical over
the meridian and hope it doesn't matter. And, in fact, it doesn't
seem to affect my reception of either Astra 2 or Hotbird. AFAIAA I'm
getting all the channels on both. The rotor takes me from Hispasat in
the west to Astra 2 (IIRC a little further east actually, but it's
been a while since I went exploring).
> 2) Something which caught me out on a number of occasions recently
> untill I realised what was going on is that the current cheap SD
> Freesat receivers, Grundig etc, (which are all similar and from
> Harvard) will not work on some channels with some LNBs.
> I have sent some back, swapped them over, and tried all sorts. Sky
> boxes and other non-Freesat boxes have worked perfectly on the same
> feed etc. I was getting desperate until I tried an attenuator at the
> input to the receiver. Bingo, all was well, and has been every time
> there has been a problem. A 3 or 6 db satellite attenuator seems to be
> about right.
> The boxes are swamped when the output of the LNB is too high and this
> seems to be the case particularly with some quad LNBs.
That's an interesting piece of news. Thanks for that. I wonder if
that could be what is happening to the OP? It would be interesting to
know if the make and model of her box is one of those you've found.
wrights...@f2s.com
> 2) Something which caught me out on a number of occasions recently
> untill I realised what was going on is that the current cheap SD
> Freesat receivers, Grundig etc, (which are all similar and from
> Harvard) will not work on some channels with some LNBs.
> I have sent some back, swapped them over, and tried all sorts. Sky
> boxes and other non-Freesat boxes have worked perfectly on the same
> feed etc. I was getting desperate until I tried an attenuator at the
> input to the receiver. Bingo, all was well, and has been every time
> there has been a problem. A 3 or 6 db satellite attenuator seems to be
> about right.
> The boxes are swamped when the output of the LNB is too high and this
> seems to be the case particularly with some quad LNBs.
That's very interesting. I haven't had this problem so far, but thanks
for the tip.
Bill
wrights...@f2s.com
wrote:
> "widgitt" <prat...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> It sounds to me that there is an impedence mismatch somewhere in the LNB >
> Receiver. If there is not a cable fault I suspect the receiver input is so
> poorly designed that it cannot provide a 50 ohm impedence across the band.
> The mismatch is causing standing waves on the line and overloading the
> signal at some frequencies and a weak signal at other frequencies. The
> attenuator is providing an impedence match that significantly reduces the
> standing waves and thereby an even signal level is achieved across the whole
> band, with of course a 3db reduction.
>
> Roger R
I suppose you mean 75ohm.
Bill
wrights...@f2s.com
> On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:41:32 -0800 (PST), widgitt
> > The boxes are swamped when the output of the LNB is too high and this
> > seems to be the case particularly with some quad LNBs.
>
> That's an interesting piece of news. Thanks for that. I wonder if
> that could be what is happening to the OP? It would be interesting to
> know if the make and model of her box is one of those you've found.
It's exactly the problem we used to have with some of the very early
analogue Amstrad boxes.
Bill