ITV 2/3/4 HD

[sintv]

Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet

[SH]

On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
> Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet

https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air

[Mark Carver]

Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat SI,
so they are on their way to the platform too

[SH]

given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact that
you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of ITV
2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the death
knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?

(I expect a similar death knell for satellite TV/Radio once every person
has access to gigabit fibre internet or 5G mobile......)

[Mark Carver]

On 01/11/2022 16:41, SH wrote:
> On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
>>>> Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
>>>
>>>
>>> https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
>>
>> Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat
>> SI, so they are on their way to the platform too
>
>
> given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact
> that you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of
> ITV 2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the
> death knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
>
>

Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.

[SH]

I've just retuned the TV on both its freesat option and its Other
satellite (as Astra2/Eurobird)

no sign of ITV 2/3/4 HD in freesat (yet)

But they are veiwable in the other sat option...

I find the latter sat mode annoying as (a) there is no LCN so you have
to manually reorder and delete after every retune and (b) you get *every
single* FTA TV channel resulting in about 10 off ch 4 channels (advert
regions), every BBC region and every ITV region, along with UTV, STV,
S4C, S4C2, BBC ALba etc and I can't understand a word of Gaelic or
Welsh! :-)

[Mark Carver]

On 01/11/2022 16:54, SH wrote:
> On 01/11/2022 16:42, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 01/11/2022 16:41, SH wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>> On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
>>>>> On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
>>>>>> Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
>>>>
>>>> Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat
>>>> SI, so they are on their way to the platform too
>>>
>>>
>>> given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact
>>> that you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion
>>> of ITV 2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute
>>> to the death knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
>>>
>>>
>> Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.
>>
>
>
> I've just retuned the TV on both its freesat option and its Other
> satellite (as Astra2/Eurobird)
>
> no sign of ITV 2/3/4 HD in freesat (yet)

On the EPG, no they won't be, they've only entered compliance testing
today. Try again in 10-14 days

[Brian Gregory]

On 01/11/2022 16:42, Mark Carver wrote:

> Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.

Why do you say that?

I get the impression that it's growing.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

[Brian Gregory]

On 01/11/2022 16:54, SH wrote:

> I find the [non Freesat] mode annoying as (a) there is no LCN so you have

> to manually reorder and delete after every retune and (b) you get *every
> single* FTA TV channel resulting in about 10 off ch 4 channels (advert
> regions), every BBC region and every ITV region, along with UTV, STV,
> S4C, S4C2, BBC ALba etc and I can't understand a word of Gaelic or
> Welsh! :-)

Yes. It was the same on my LG Freesat TV.

You really want to be able to keep the Freesat numbering and have the
other channels starting at perhaps 5000 and some means to move
interesting ones down so they are appropriately inserted among the
Freesat channels. But apparently Freesat forbids that.

So I got an enigma2 box and I use the Sky channel numbering now.

[Brian Gregory]

On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:

EXCELLENT!!!!
:)

[Brian Gregory]

On 01/11/2022 17:30, Brian Gregory wrote:
> On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
>> On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
>>> Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
>>
>>
>> https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
>
> EXCELLENT!!!!
> :)
>

But I might need to put a bigger hard drive in my PVR.

[Andy Burns]

[buggered attributions] wrote:

>>> Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet

Just done a re-scan (note to self, tuner card doesn't lieke PC going to sleep to
save power, just turn it off next time)

>> https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air

Not that I can remember the last time I watched any of the matching SD channels

I can see various ITV2HD, ITV3HD, ITV4HD but the last two still show "encrypted"
flag.

[Andy Burns]

Andy Burns wrote:

> Just done a re-scan

> I can see various ITV2HD, ITV3HD, ITV4HD but the last two still show "encrypted"
> flag.

just scanned 11068V as well as 11053H, and ITV4HD is available

[wrights...@f2s.com]

It will be swamped by TV over the internet. I think we'll be lucky if it's retained once a politically acceptable percentage of people have fast internet.
Bill

[SH]

I have gigabit fibre to the home, and I still have my metal tree at the
top of my house with both Freeview and freesat.....

Only two advantages of goign to TV over internet is reducing the risk of
a lightning strike and selling off the scrap aluminium and steel to the
metal recyclers......

the current advantage I have is redundancy... if fibre goes down, I
still have TV over freeview and freesat.....

I've been mulling a 5G backup internet solution.... as some deals are
quite tempting like Smarty's £10 a month for 50GB and Three do unlimited
internet for £20 a month and I am not averse to putting up a 5G external
antenna....

[NY]

"Andy Burns" <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
news:jsd5b8...@mid.individual.net...

Just rescanned 11097 and ITV3 is now showing as unencrypted and can be
watched/recorded. I'll do the muxes for ITV2 and ITV4 when I've finished
recording something.

That is for TVHeadend with a PCTV 491e USB tuner.

I wonder how many of the archive programmes on ITV3 will be in HD (as
opposed to upscaled SD). I suppose some of the more recent programmes will
be - assuming that ITV3 buy the rights to HD masters where are available.

[Mark Carver]

On 02/11/2022 10:49, NY wrote:
>
>
> I wonder how many of the archive programmes on ITV3 will be in HD (as
> opposed to upscaled SD). I suppose some of the more recent programmes
> will be - assuming that ITV3 buy the rights to HD masters where are
> available.

ITV 3 HD has existed for a few years. No special effort has been made to
date to remaster anything in ITV's archive to HD.

[Roderick Stewart]

On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 08:44:14 +0000, SH <i.l...@spam.com> wrote:

>I have gigabit fibre to the home, and I still have my metal tree at the
>top of my house with both Freeview and freesat.....
>
>Only two advantages of goign to TV over internet is reducing the risk of
>a lightning strike and selling off the scrap aluminium and steel to the
>metal recyclers......

Another advantage is all viewing and listening via a single gadget
instead of switching between them, and only one remote control instead
of lots of them cluttering up the coffee table.

I haven't used my Freeview receiver at all this year, and a couple of
months ago I saved even a few more watts by switching it off at the
mains. Let's see how long it takes before I decide that I don't miss
it and might as well get rid of it.

Rod.

[R. Mark Clayton]

On Tuesday, 1 November 2022 at 16:41:17 UTC, SH wrote:
> On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:
> > On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
> >> On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
> >>> Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
> >>
> >>
> >> https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
> >
> > Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat SI,
> > so they are on their way to the platform too
> given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact that
> you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of ITV
> 2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the death
> knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?

Try that if you live in flats and aren't allowed a dish.

[Mark Carver]

On 02/11/2022 12:23, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> On Tuesday, 1 November 2022 at 16:41:17 UTC, SH wrote:
>> On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
>>>> On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
>>>>> Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
>>>>
>>>> https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
>>> Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat SI,
>>> so they are on their way to the platform too
>> given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact that
>> you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of ITV
>> 2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the death
>> knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
> Try that if you live in flats and aren't allowed a dish.
>

I'm sure the recent 'Sky Stream' box has been launched with exactly
these folk in mind

BTW the whole reason ITV have made ITV2/3/4 HD FTA is probably because
they are about to appear as HD streams on the ITV-X streaming platform,
so it would have been rather cheeky to have them behind a pay wall
anywhere else

[R. Mark Clayton]

On Tuesday, 1 November 2022 at 17:23:52 UTC, Brian Gregory wrote:

Me too. Many TVs now come with Freesat or at least DVB-S2 receivers, and every tim $ky hike their subscriptions, more people cancel and turn to FTA satellite.

I remember a few years ago a new neighbour had a problem getting his new LG TV going. Simple Freeview tune sorted that, but I noticed an f-connector on the back. As the previous owner had installed $ky, I hooked it up, found it worked, tuned the satellite side (which was even capable of multi satellite) and to his amazement ten minutes later he had hundreds of TV channels.

[NY]

"R. Mark Clayton" <notya...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:26582736-4fb1-45f8...@googlegroups.com...

When we bought our present Philips TV about 2 years ago, I was surprised and
pleased to see that it had an F connector as well as a Belling Lee
connector, and therefore that it could be configured to receive off both
Freeview and Freesat. Sadly the F connector is in a recessed panel which
makes it very difficult to tighten/loosen the nut on the F connector on the
rare occasions when the TV needs to be moved away from the satelllite and
terrestrial cables. It would have been easy enough to disconnect those
cables from the wall socket, except that those cables are hard wired back to
the dish and aerial, presumably to reduce the number of connectors and the
possibility of bad connections.

Sadly the usability of Freesat in the TV was reduced when Philips forced a
firmware upgrade which removed the ability to designate "personalised
channels" as a subset of the several hundred that Freesat provides. I'd got
everything set up with BBC1,2,4, ITV (two local regions), CH4, CH5 and a few
other channels that we commonly watched. Everything worked fine for a year
until I eventually responded to the "firmware update" nagging message that
appeared every time the TV was turned on - and the new firmware removed the
personalised channels feature. Philips said that they had done so to comply
with a new ruling by Freeview/Freesat that TVs were no longer permitted to
allow users to create a subset of channels, and that *all* channels had to
be presented in LCN order. I believed that, but I've since learned that no
such requirement was made by Freeview/Freesat and therefore Philips were
telling me a load of bollocks. It's *my* TV and I want to be able to
customise the channel list as I want.

[Mark Carver]

On 02/11/2022 13:48, NY wrote:
>  Philips said that they had done so to comply with a new ruling by
> Freeview/Freesat that TVs were no longer permitted to allow users to
> create a subset of channels, and that *all* channels had to be
> presented in LCN order. I believed that, but I've since learned that
> no such requirement was made by Freeview/Freesat and therefore Philips
> were telling me a load of bollocks.

I think it's still a requirement if the manufacturers want a 'full fat'
platform licence, but it's all terribly confusing (to me).

I've got a little LG bedroom telly, that has both Freesat and Freeview
built in. I can (and have) reordered the Freeview channels with gay
abandon, but I cannot do the same with Freesat. Also, there's no way to
'mix and match' the two platforms into your own bespoke arrangement,
which I suppose would be diffcult given two sets of EPG data to merge.

It's about 6 key strokes and a lot of waiting to switch between modes,
so I don't bother, and just use Freeview on it.

[Brian Gaff]

I think there is a danger though, if people use just cabled up tvs that
spying on peoples habits will become endemic and it will also lead to over
reliance on the internet, which is really going to be an issue if
international hackers have already put in their back doors. Much better to
keep at least one set of off air channels alive. I'd have thought
terrestrial would be safer as you could not shoot all the transmitters. The
problem is that the companies may well be using the internet to feed the
transmitters.
Brian

--

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"SH" <i.l...@spam.com> wrote in message news:tjri75$oauc$1...@dont-email.me...

[Brian Gaff]

In many ways its analogue days were its haydays, it seemed everyone had a
dish back then.
Might be best in really remote places though.

Brian

--

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"Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:jsd0jp...@mid.individual.net...

[Mark Carver]

On 02/11/2022 16:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
> In many ways its analogue days were its haydays, it seemed everyone had a
> dish back then.
>

I can assure you Brian, something like 40% of homes have a dish around
here. There's no obvious correlation with <cough> social demographic
(never has been, that's always been largely a myth)

I'm willing to bet that there are more dishes with nothing active
connected in the living room, than there are with Freesat receivers, and
the vast majority will have active Sky boxes.

[Brian Gregory]

On 02/11/2022 10:49, NY wrote:

All three are there and working on my Enigma2 box.
I just re-ran Auto Bouquet Maker on the Sky UK provider.

[wrights...@f2s.com]

On Wednesday, 2 November 2022 at 13:48:34 UTC, NY wrote:
> "R. Mark Clayton" <notya...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> When we bought our present Philips TV about 2 years ago, I was surprised and
> pleased to see that it had an F connector as well as a Belling Lee
> connector, and therefore that it could be configured to receive off both
> Freeview and Freesat. Sadly the F connector is in a recessed panel which
> makes it very difficult to tighten/loosen the nut on the F connector on the
> rare occasions when the TV needs to be moved away from the satelllite and
> terrestrial cables.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114505200743?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=7101533165274578&mkcid=2&itemid=114505200743&targetid=4584826055637456&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=412354546&mkgroupid=1299623041023876&rlsatarget=pla-4584826055637456&abcId=9300541&merchantid=87779&msclkid=ea94f395111b1459596490f7a0fd7d5e

Bill

[Tweed]

Interestingly a new estate has gone up behind me with hardly a dish nor a
DTT antenna to be seen. All houses have both a VM and an OR fibre
connection. I’m curious as to what people are using to get their TV
reception. Presumably VM and perhaps BT have made offers that are hard to
turn down. VM are very secretive about what they are offering, as when you
enter these properties on their normal sales website they ask you to phone
up.

[Mark Carver]

There's a Croudace estate near us where the posher homes have a Sky dish
pre installed and wired to  (and done at First Fix too !).

They also have Ethernet tie lines from the FTTP ONT to the living room
and master bedroom

[Jeff Layman]

On 01/11/2022 19:10, wrights...@aol.com wrote:

No doubt. Remember the old maxim - "if you aren't paying for it, you are
the product".

And we are moving inexorably to *us* becoming the product. When channels
are streamed, and the only way to watch them is by logging on (not
necessarily through paid subscription, it could be "free"), then
everything you do is monitorable. Not just what you watch, but when and
how you watch. Even if not logged in, I am pretty sure that individual
TVs have individual signatures, probably built into their OS (in the
same way that internet browsing can pretty much identify a single
computer by its unique signature). In fact, if it's an Android OS TV,
then I'd be certain that Google's grubby hands are all over the
signature somewhere.

That isn't possible with Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions, which is
why they will become unacceptable in the long run.

--

Jeff

[Andy Burns]

Jeff Layman wrote:

> No doubt. Remember the old maxim - "if you aren't paying for it, you are the
> product".

Talking about paying for it, broadband streaming is much more expensive per hour
than terrestrial broadcast.

<https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0024/246165/Carbon-emissions-of-streaming-and-digital-terrestrial-television-3.pdf>

Naturally, there's a few ifs and buts in there ...

[NY]

"Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

news:jshcds...@mid.individual.net...

> There's a Croudace estate near us where the posher homes have a Sky dish
> pre installed and wired to (and done at First Fix too !).
>
> They also have Ethernet tie lines from the FTTP ONT to the living room and
> master bedroom

A builder with some common sense. Even twenty years ago when I bought a
newly-built house, I was surprised that there were no Ethernet points to the
bedrooms and the living room. At the time, wifi was in its infancy (I think
Wireless G was the limit of the technology). I knew someone in one of the
bigger houses which was gutted by a bad fire, and I suggested to him that
when he was having it repaired afterwards, he got the builders to take the
opportunity to install Cat5 and Ethernet sockets, preferably radiating from
an *upstairs* room so a router placed there would give best wifi coverage as
well if that was needed.

If we get FTTP (eg if BT start force-feeding it to existing customers) I
dread to think how they will provide it to us. The phone line to the house
terminates at an old GPO lozenge box on the gable end in the *middle* of the
house, where a single-storey (with loft) part of the house meets a
two-storey (plus loft) part. Gaining access to that termination point would
be a major job for BTOR, involving crawl boards up a tiled roof. Goodness
where the cable goes from there. I don't know how the cable goes from there
to the point where I can see it entering the living room alongside a window.
If BTOR want to install an ONT at that first-entry point to the living room,
it will need power, and there are no mains sockets within reach so it would
mean taking up carpets and digging a channel in the concrete floor to lay a
spur from a socket on the other side of the living room door.

[NY]

"Jeff Layman" <Je...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:tk0012$1dv2r$1...@dont-email.me...

> And we are moving inexorably to *us* becoming the product. When channels
> are streamed, and the only way to watch them is by logging on (not
> necessarily through paid subscription, it could be "free"), then
> everything you do is monitorable. Not just what you watch, but when and
> how you watch. Even if not logged in, I am pretty sure that individual TVs
> have individual signatures, probably built into their OS (in the same way
> that internet browsing can pretty much identify a single computer by its
> unique signature). In fact, if it's an Android OS TV, then I'd be certain
> that Google's grubby hands are all over the signature somewhere.
>
> That isn't possible with Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions, which is why
> they will become unacceptable in the long run.

Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for broadcasters)
that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes, and can
even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity announcements.
The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a copy of
anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That means that
broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can
restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that cannot skip
commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at faster-than-normal
speed.

We need to enjoy "proper" broadcasting while we can...

[Mark Carver]

On 03/11/2022 09:46, NY wrote:
>
>
> If we get FTTP (eg if BT start force-feeding it to existing customers)
> I dread to think how they will provide it to us. The phone line to the
> house terminates at an old GPO lozenge box on the gable end in the
> *middle* of the house, where a single-storey (with loft) part of the
> house meets a two-storey (plus loft) part. Gaining access to that
> termination point would be a major job for BTOR, involving crawl
> boards up a tiled roof. Goodness where the cable goes from there. I
> don't know how the cable goes from there to the point where I can see
> it entering the living room alongside a window. If BTOR want to
> install an ONT at that first-entry point to the living room, it will
> need power, and there are no mains sockets within reach so it would
> mean taking up carpets and digging a channel in the concrete floor to
> lay a spur from a socket on the other side of the living room door.

Openreach have a number of requirements.

Firstly the route doesn't have to follow the same route as the copper.
However, they won't use the external fibre, internally, so at the
transition point where the run enters the building there is a CSP box
where the external and internal fibres are spliced. Openreach will want
to put that somewhere they can reach in the future and at will, and
without working at height, so in other words no more than 1.5 metres
above ground level. Then they will place the internal ONT box somewhere
(and anywhere) within reason, providing the internal fibre run is not
more than 10 metres. Obviously the ONT will require power.

On the day it will be down to the mood and skill level of the person
that visits. You may need maximum charm to obtain maximum flexibility.
They will install with a path a 'least resistance'

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <jsd0jp...@mid.individual.net>,

Mark Carver <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 01/11/2022 16:41, SH wrote:
> > On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:
> >> On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:

> >>> On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
> >>>> Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
> >>>
> >>>

> >>> https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
> >>
> >> Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat
> >> SI, so they are on their way to the platform too
> >
> >
> > given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact
> > that you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of
> > ITV 2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the
> > death knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
> >
> >

> Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.

Stats?

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
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Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

[Mark Carver]

On 03/11/2022 09:52, NY wrote:
> "Jeff Layman" <Je...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:tk0012$1dv2r$1...@dont-email.me...
>> And we are moving inexorably to *us* becoming the product. When
>> channels are streamed, and the only way to watch them is by logging
>> on (not necessarily through paid subscription, it could be "free"),
>> then everything you do is monitorable. Not just what you watch, but
>> when and how you watch. Even if not logged in, I am pretty sure that
>> individual TVs have individual signatures, probably built into their
>> OS (in the same way that internet browsing can pretty much identify a
>> single computer by its unique signature). In fact, if it's an Android
>> OS TV, then I'd be certain that Google's grubby hands are all over
>> the signature somewhere.
>>
>> That isn't possible with Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions, which is
>> why they will become unacceptable in the long run.
>
> Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for
> broadcasters) that people can record and keep their own copies of TV
> programmes, and can even (if they know how) edit out commercials and
> continuity announcements.

No 'real, normal' people do that, they really don't have the time on
their hands, even if they have the inclination (which they don't, so
it's moot)

If they're that desperate to keep something (and it'll be a 30 second
clip of them appearing on the local news or Bargain Hunt) They just
point their mobile phone at the screen.

[Mark Carver]

On 02/11/2022 17:43, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> In article <jsd0jp...@mid.individual.net>,
> Mark Carver <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 01/11/2022 16:41, SH wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>> On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
>>>>> On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
>>>>>> Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
>>>>>
>>>>> https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
>>>> Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat
>>>> SI, so they are on their way to the platform too
>>>
>>> given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact
>>> that you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of
>>> ITV 2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the
>>> death knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
>>>
>>>
>> Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.
> Stats?
>

About 2 million homes (compared with 8 million for Sky, 18 million for
Freeview, and 3.5 million for Virgin)

[Roderick Stewart]

On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 09:46:53 -0000, "NY" <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>If we get FTTP (eg if BT start force-feeding it to existing customers) I
>dread to think how they will provide it to us.

Don't wait to be force fed with fibre. If it's available where you
live at an acceptable price, go for it because it's very good.

I don't have the BT version myself, but I've set one up for somebody
else. The BT hub can accept either VDSL or an ethernet feed from an
optical terminal, and it automatically selects whichever it's given.
It was supplied with two phone handsets that connect directly to the
hub, so the previous phone system can be removed, with no need of a
powered base station to be located near a master socket.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a simple way of transferring
contact numbers from the old phone system other than by typing them
into the new one, but once it's done, the entire list can be saved as
a backup vcf file on a computer, using web access to the hub, so you
should never need to type them in again.

Rod.

[Chris Green]

NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
> Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for broadcasters)
> that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes, and can
> even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity announcements.
> The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a copy of
> anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That means that
> broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can
> restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that cannot skip
> commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at faster-than-normal
> speed.
>

Surely if there's a picture on the screen we can record it! At the
silliest level one could just point a camera at it.

I have no doubt that at some point we'll be offered ways to copy
streamed video.

Remember in the early days of computer software all of the crazy 'copy
protection' that was applied, after a few years when it was repeatedly
overcome by users it has disappeared.

--
Chris Green
·

[Mark Carver]

On 03/11/2022 11:52, Chris Green wrote:
> NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for broadcasters)
>> that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes, and can
>> even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity announcements.
>> The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a copy of
>> anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That means that
>> broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can
>> restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that cannot skip
>> commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at faster-than-normal
>> speed.
>>
> Surely if there's a picture on the screen we can record it! At the
> silliest level one could just point a camera at it.
>

Thanks to HDCP flags in HDMI interfaces, that's often the only solution
now anyway, unless you enter the murky world of HDMI 'laundering' devices

[Chris Green]

There must be a video signal of some sort feeding the screen and
that's "post HDMI". We'll get some sort of clever recorder that can
use the screen driver output to record from.

--
Chris Green
·

[Mark Carver]

No we won't, because any manufacturer that markets such a thing will be
taken to court by the Holywood studios etc

You should see the hoops I have to jump through to get HDMI/EDID
strippers approved for broadcaster use.

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <jsfiup...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver

<mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 02/11/2022 16:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
> > In many ways its analogue days were its haydays, it seemed everyone
> > had a dish back then.
> >
> I can assure you Brian, something like 40% of homes have a dish around
> here. There's no obvious correlation with <cough> social demographic
> (never has been, that's always been largely a myth)

TBH now you've said that I can't recall seeing *any* on the houses in and
around our street. When I emerge from 'shielding' (I hope!) I'll have a
look to see if that's only because I've not been looking.

'Freeview' + the net seem fine to me.

[Mark Carver]

On 03/11/2022 10:11, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> In article <jsfiup...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
> <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 02/11/2022 16:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> In many ways its analogue days were its haydays, it seemed everyone
>>> had a dish back then.
>>>
>> I can assure you Brian, something like 40% of homes have a dish around
>> here. There's no obvious correlation with <cough> social demographic
>> (never has been, that's always been largely a myth)
> TBH now you've said that I can't recall seeing *any* on the houses in and
> around our street. When I emerge from 'shielding' (I hope!) I'll have a
> look to see if that's only because I've not been looking.
>

You can do so now from the comfort of your desk !

Here's a random street in your area

<https://www.google.com/maps/@56.6366199,-2.8945017,3a,34.4y,310.46h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sB_jm68UquWm0sLgdvKVBRw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192>

[Java Jive]

Mmmm ... not so sure about that. AIUI, this works pretty well for
current versions of Windows ...

https://obsproject.com/download

... but I've only used an older W7 compatible version ...

https://web.archive.org/web/20220509151916/https://cdn-fastly.obsproject.com/downloads/OBS-Studio-27.2.4-Full-Installer-x64.exe

... which made a very reasonable recording for me of my nephew's
funeral, which sadly I was most unexpectedly in too much pain to attend
in person as planned.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

[Mark Carver]

Yes, you can do what you like with your own produced content, but try
and connect via HDMI interface from a Set Top Box or anything else that
is spitting out 'creative content' from a broadcaster or film studio
etc, and if that device doesn't receive a flag back from the HDMI
handshake that its connected to a screen, it'll shut down the signal.

Of course there are no ends of ways to circumvent this, and stuff on the
internet, but no one is going to be able to sell something that you can
buy off the shelf in Currys or John Lewis and make yourself an HD copy
of tonight's EastEnders.

[Java Jive]

On 03/11/2022 16:34, Mark Carver wrote:
>
> On 03/11/2022 16:21, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> Mmmm  ...  not so sure about that.  AIUI, this works pretty well for
>> current versions of Windows ...
>>
>> https://obsproject.com/download
>>
>> ... but I've only used an older W7 compatible version ...
>>
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20220509151916/https://cdn-fastly.obsproject.com/downloads/OBS-Studio-27.2.4-Full-Installer-x64.exe
>>
>> ... which made a very reasonable recording for me of my nephew's
>> funeral, which sadly I was most unexpectedly in too much pain to
>> attend in person as planned.
>
> Yes, you can do what you like with your own produced content,

I didn't, I recorded it on my PC as it played back off the funeral
services website.

> but try
> and connect via HDMI interface from a Set Top Box or anything else that
> is spitting out 'creative content' from a broadcaster or film studio
> etc, and if that device doesn't receive a flag back from the HDMI
> handshake that its connected to a screen, it'll shut down the signal.
>
> Of course there are no ends of ways to circumvent this, and stuff on the
> internet, but no one is going to be able to sell something that you can
> buy off the shelf in Currys or John Lewis and make yourself an HD copy
> of tonight's EastEnders.

I don't claim to have gone into the details of how OBStudio works,
though I believe it records off the screen somehow, I know only that it
does. Also, I wasn't claiming it was HD, though I think theoretically
that would be possible, it's just simply that my PC doesn't have an HD
screen.

[Brian Gregory]

On 03/11/2022 11:52, Chris Green wrote:

> I have no doubt that at some point we'll be offered ways to copy
> streamed video.

There's AnyStream
https://www.redfox.bz/
Though I suppose they may make it illegal to buy it.

[Max Demian]

On 03/11/2022 14:41, Mark Carver wrote:

I have a Panasonic HDD/DVD recorder which happily burns TV programmes
onto DVD, after editing if required. Admittedly that is only SD, but
they make (or made) a Blu-ray version for HD.

In this case, the signal isn't HDMI until it leaves the box, from HDD or
DVD.

--
Max Demian

[Chris Green]

On what grounds? There could be perfectly good reasons for doing it.
If I have a video camera watching my back garden then they're my
images the TV is showing. There's nothing anyone else should 'own'
between the camera and my TV.

> You should see the hoops I have to jump through to get HDMI/EDID
> strippers approved for broadcaster use.

So the technology exists already. :-)

--
Chris Green
·

[MB]

On 03/11/2022 09:52, NY wrote:

> Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for broadcasters)
> that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes, and can
> even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity announcements.
> The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a copy of
> anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That means that
> broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can
> restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that cannot skip
> commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at faster-than-normal
> speed.
>
> We need to enjoy "proper" broadcasting while we can...

Most people do not realise that they do not have a copy of a streamed
programme stored in their box and are just recalling it to be streamed
again.

[Mark Carver]

Yes, indeed, and consequently the HDMI output of your CCTV camera or
system will contain no HDCP flags, and so can be plugged into any
recording device you like.

It's equipment (STB. BluRay players) that is outputting 'intellectual
property' that will restrict what you can connect it to

Further reading

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/tech-takes/what-is-hdcp

[Mark Carver]

And how would you go about feeding it with something in HD from a PVR or
STB ?

I'll eat my hat if you can show me something with a DVB tuner, that can
record HD content to BluRay ?

I admit, SD is easy, I have DVDs I've burnt in the 00s from DTT and
D-Sat transmissions (never watched them BTW)

[NY]

"Jim Lesurf" <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5a417f2...@audiomisc.co.uk...

> In article <jsfiup...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
> <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 02/11/2022 16:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> > In many ways its analogue days were its haydays, it seemed everyone
>> > had a dish back then.
>> >
>> I can assure you Brian, something like 40% of homes have a dish around
>> here. There's no obvious correlation with <cough> social demographic
>> (never has been, that's always been largely a myth)
>
> TBH now you've said that I can't recall seeing *any* on the houses in and
> around our street. When I emerge from 'shielding' (I hope!) I'll have a
> look to see if that's only because I've not been looking.
>
> 'Freeview' + the net seem fine to me.

I imagine that there are two types of user of a satellite dish: those who
want the channels that you can only get on satellite (maybe even the
encrypted Sky ones), and those who want the channels that you can get on
Freeview but have poor terrestrial reception.

I have a dual-LNB dish, with one cable connected to the TV and the other to
a DVB-S2 USB tuner connected to a Raspberry Pi. Because of the way that
stations are allocated to satellite multiplexes, I've found that the chance
of two stations that I want to record from being on the same mux is very
small, so to all intents and purposes one tuner means one station can be
recorded. So I also have a dual-tuner DVB-T2 USB tuner connect to the
aerial. With that I can record at least two more stations, and maybe more
since there's a greater chance that two stations that I want will be on the
same mux.

I tend to make satellite the higher preference because satellite reception
is better; because we live in the shadow of a hill (the only hill between
our house and Belmont, 60 miles away) terrestrial reception can suffer from
dropouts in poor reception conditions.

Ideally I've upgrade the dish to quad-LNB and run extra cables to the living
room, but I'd also have to buy extra DVB-S2 tuners, and finding one with the
correct revision level to be supported by Linux is a problem: I bought two,
found that one was an old enough revision to be usable, and returned the
other newer, unsupported one to Amazon.

[wrights...@f2s.com]

On Thursday, 3 November 2022 at 15:05:19 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:

> You can do so now from the comfort of your desk !
>
> Here's a random street in your area
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/@56.6366199,-2.8945017,3a,34.4y,310.46h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sB_jm68UquWm0sLgdvKVBRw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192>

Very Scottish looking. I always think such places typify Scotland and are very depressing.

Bill

[wrights...@f2s.com]

On Thursday, 3 November 2022 at 16:47:31 UTC, Java Jive wrote:

> I don't claim to have gone into the details of how OBStudio works,
> though I believe it records off the screen somehow, I know only that it
> does. Also, I wasn't claiming it was HD, though I think theoretically
> that would be possible, it's just simply that my PC doesn't have an HD
> screen.

All I know is that you can put the material on your screen and then record your screen. It doesn't record the sound though. I've only had half an hour with OBS so I haven't explored it more than that.
Bill

[Java Jive]

It recorded the sound for me. I suspect that maybe you were too busy
finding things to denigrate in GMSVs of Scotland rather than setting up
OBStudio properly :-)

[Mark Carver]

Trouble with posh areas, is there are too many laurel bushes to obscure
the proprieties

<https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0913106,-0.7204444,3a,75y,299.25h,81.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbfL3bT6t92w1uUfSIUTe7Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656>

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <skmc3j-...@esprimo.zbmc.eu>, Chris Green <c...@isbd.net>
wrote:

> Remember in the early days of computer software all of the crazy 'copy
> protection' that was applied, after a few years when it was repeatedly
> overcome by users it has disappeared.

Blu Ray videos remain 'difficult' to jailbreak.

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <jshk26...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver

Ta! Source?

Personally I'm happy with Freeview plus a bit of using gip for BBC and
getting some items from YT.

Thanks,

[Mark Carver]

On 03/11/2022 14:46, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> In article <jshk26...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
> <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.
>>> Stats?
>>>
>> About 2 million homes (compared with 8 million for Sky, 18 million for
>> Freeview, and 3.5 million for Virgin)
> Ta! Source?

No single source, just a few minutes googling Ofcom and other industry
websites.

They seem to be the ballpark figures

[SH]

Ok, how does OFCOM measure/detect the viewers who originally signed up
to Sky, and then downgraded to a Freesat From Sky card (if such a thing
still exists) or simply swapped the Sky box with a Freesat box bought
from the local Tescos?

Also what about people who buy a TV that have both Freesat AND Freeview
Tuners onboard and the TV owner only connects up one of the 2 tuners
rather than both?

And Have OFCOM measured/detected the number of people who stream live TV
over internet rather than via Freeview/Freesat?

(Genuine question as all of my TVs are twin tuner and all are connected
to Freeview, Freesat AND Internet for TV over IP.)

S.

[Roderick Stewart]

On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 11:52:28 +0000, Chris Green <c...@isbd.net> wrote:

>I have no doubt that at some point we'll be offered ways to copy
>streamed video.

If there's a demand for it, somebody will do it. As usual, the
legality will be irrelevant if it's done by means of software, because
software is unstoppable once it's out in the wild.

But as long as material is easily available to stream at sensible
prices I don't foresee a significant demand to watch it any other way.

Rod.

[Mark Carver]

On 03/11/2022 19:11, MB wrote:
>
> Most people do not realise that they do not have a copy of a streamed
> programme stored in their box and are just recalling it to be streamed
> again.
>
>
>

It depends. I've just tried watching a programme on my SkyQ box that was
downloaded through streaming. It played back.
I yanked out the ethernet cable, and it carried on playing back without
a murmur.

Which box are you referring to ?

[Roderick Stewart]

On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 19:11:42 +0000, MB <M...@nospam.net> wrote:

>Most people do not realise that they do not have a copy of a streamed
>programme stored in their box and are just recalling it to be streamed
>again.

Most people have no reason to care. As long as you can watch it again,
it makes no difference where it's coming from.

Rod.

[David Wade]

but your camera shouldn't be setting the HDCP flags....

>
>> You should see the hoops I have to jump through to get HDMI/EDID
>> strippers approved for broadcaster use.
>
> So the technology exists already. :-)
>

Dave

[JNugent]

It looks as though he was referring to the Sky Q box...

Sky Q and Sky+HD boxes download On Demand and paid-for content to their
internal drive. Subsequently disconnecting the box from the internet
(whatever its original route there) doesn't have any effect - as long as
the film / programme has been 100% downloaded.

[Robin]

On 04/11/2022 08:51, Mark Carver wrote:

Ofcom's "Media Nations" 2022 had just 1.8 million households for all the
"others" - i.e. those with Freesat /or/ internet without subscription
/or/ no TV at all. Their source was the BARB Establishment Survey. And
that was down from 2.9 million in 2016.

FWIW those with /only/ TV through an aerial was 4.4 - down from 7.4 in
2016.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

[Max Demian]

From the built-in DVB-T2 tuner.

> I'll eat my hat if you can show me something with a DVB tuner, that can
> record HD content to BluRay ?

Possibly with this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0086WVPWG/

This review implies you can record from Freeview HD to Blu-ray:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-reviews/R3NWW2VUN2GDQK/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl

--
Max Demian

[Mark Carver]

My gut feeling is traditional TV viewing is steadily declining.

Everybody (well, the BBC at laest) expected well over 30 million to
watch the Queen's Funeral (live). The figure was high 20s million, (and
the for Beeb themselves it was only in the teens I think ?)

Two things that will vanish in the 2030s, linear telly, and landline
telephones powered from a big 50 volt battery at your local exchange !

[R. Mark Clayton]

The problem with FreeSat is that a royalty is charged to be in the Electronic Program Guide, we currently have two TV's with FTA receivers hooked up and used to have a separate box, but have never had anything with FreeSat. All the programs in FreeSat and then some can be received on an FTA receiver.

[Mark Carver]

Well, I've got the salt and pepper out for my hat, just in case. That
model is from 2012, but it led me to this (Still quite old)

<https://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-DMR-BWT850EB-Recorder-Freeview-Up-Scaling-Black/dp/B017DFOYME/ref=dp_fod_2?pd_rd_w=1dzxh&content-id=amzn1.sym.13315880-16ee-4073-b323-06131c48c142&pf_rd_p=13315880-16ee-4073-b323-06131c48c142&pf_rd_r=SAZEX0EDJ7CQTJ67VGPS&pd_rd_wg=3yUMR&pd_rd_r=a60ba005-9491-4d3d-b775-78775de3c835&pd_rd_i=B017DFOYME&psc=1>

With this interesting Q&A comment (from 2016)

Quote:-
"Yes - provided the content provider ( BBC, ITV etc ) have allowed it .
The commercial channels generally allow you to make one HD copy only.
BBC usually place no restriction on the number of HD copies you can make
from the HDD. "

I'll dig deeper......

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <jsiij7...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver

<mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 'll eat my hat if you can show me something with a DVB tuner, that can
> record HD content to BluRay ?

Well, I know we can capture HD from freeview using a computer and an HD
dongle. I would assume I could then have a BD burner drive and copy that to
a disc if I wished. Not tried it because I just record things to view when
convenient.*

It would be a 'data' disc, though, not a video disc. Which makes me wonder
if I could then get my BD+DVD+etc commercial player to play such disc. It
will play files on USB sticks, but the control interface is crap compared
with VLC's. So far I've not bothered to find out as would only be of
academic interest.

* OK, I also skip the ads. :-)

[MB]

On 04/11/2022 13:51, Mark Carver wrote:
> Everybody (well, the BBC at laest) expected well over 30 million to
> watch the Queen's Funeral (live). The figure was high 20s million, (and
> the for Beeb themselves it was only in the teens I think ?)

I bet the streaming rivals wish they could get high twenty millions for
something - have they started published audited figures yet?

[JNugent]

On 04/11/2022 09:15 am, Jim Lesurf wrote:

> Mark Carver <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>> 'll eat my hat if you can show me something with a DVB tuner, that can
>> record HD content to BluRay ?
>
> Well, I know we can capture HD from freeview using a computer and an HD
> dongle. I would assume I could then have a BD burner drive and copy that to
> a disc if I wished. Not tried it because I just record things to view when
> convenient.*
>
> It would be a 'data' disc, though, not a video disc. Which makes me wonder
> if I could then get my BD+DVD+etc commercial player to play such disc. It
> will play files on USB sticks, but the control interface is crap compared
> with VLC's. So far I've not bothered to find out as would only be of
> academic interest.
>
> * OK, I also skip the ads. :-)

Use an external CD-R drive connected via its USB lead?

[Mark Carver]

They have, but it's all a bit meaningless comparing against linear TV. I
saw one quote that something on Netflix that had 110k viewers at the
same time as GBBO on C4 that had 3.8 million. However the Netflix prog
will have some sort of audience at any time day of night, (as will GBBO
via All4).

A fairer comparison would be over a week Netflix vs iplayer vs All4 etc.

Anyway, the point is today there's a multitude of different things to
watch whenever and however, so the days of 30 million for an event are
probably over

[MB]

On 04/11/2022 17:36, Mark Carver wrote:
> They have, but it's all a bit meaningless comparing against linear TV. I
> saw one quote that something on Netflix that had 110k viewers at the
> same time as GBBO on C4 that had 3.8 million. However the Netflix prog
> will have some sort of audience at any time day of night, (as will GBBO
> via All4).
>
> A fairer comparison would be over a week Netflix vs iplayer vs All4 etc.
>
> Anyway, the point is today there's a multitude of different things to
> watch whenever and however, so the days of 30 million for an event are
> probably over

I would have thought they would give the figures in way that allowed for
that because they are trying to persuade advertisers that worth
advertising there,

[Roderick Stewart]

Perhaps some of them will, just not all at once. There must be plenty
of books that have been read by tens of millions, even though not
everyone will have read them at exactly the same time. Modern
technology is enabling television material to be consumed in much the
same way as literature - as and when it suits the reader - and this
will require new methods of measuring its success.

Rod.

[Max Demian]

They could have done something similar since people started using video
recorders but didn't. When they ask people to keep a diary of their
viewing/listening they only ask about live viewing/listening in my
experience. Possibly because they want the information for the
advertisers and know that most people will skip the ads.

--
Max Demian

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <jsl0op...@mid.individual.net>, JNugent

Well, it plays (FAT format) sticks with the poor control interface. And a
CD would be a bit wee for something like an hour of HDTV. I could try a
DVD-R but I suspect the interface would again being crap if its a data
format disc. And a DVD-R video formatted one wouldn't be HD so far as I
know.

It doesn't matter as VLC works nicely. Main snag tends to be that .ts files
from 'commercial break' stations tend to have timestamps hiccups at the end
of ad breaks. They can confuse using VLC to jump the time being played.
Usually don't bother to try and fix that though as not worth the effort
simply for time shifting what we watch. (Although I'd love to know the
magic incantation for having ffmpeg fix it. Best I've found so far for
sorting timestampings is a pass though Handbrake which may reprocess the
actual AV data payload.)

[Jim Lesurf]

Yes. IIRC they have a measure they call something like "reach" to include
more than "just when TXd" accesses. IIRC we once had one of the people who
collect viewing data ask us to participate. But I said 'NO' when he started
explaining they wanted to monitor all our connected computers as well as
the TV.

[Brian Gregory]

On 03/11/2022 14:48, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> In article <skmc3j-...@esprimo.zbmc.eu>, Chris Green <c...@isbd.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Remember in the early days of computer software all of the crazy 'copy
>> protection' that was applied, after a few years when it was repeatedly
>> overcome by users it has disappeared.
>
> Blu Ray videos remain 'difficult' to jailbreak.
>
> Jim
>

Just buy AnyDVD.
https://www.redfox.bz/

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

[sintv]

> >
> Interestingly a new estate has gone up behind me with hardly a dish nor a
> DTT antenna to be seen. All houses have both a VM and an OR fibre
> connection. I’m curious as to what people are using to get their TV
> reception. Presumably VM and perhaps BT have made offers that are hard to
> turn down. VM are very secretive about what they are offering, as when you
> enter these properties on their normal sales website they ask you to phone
> up.

Ive just put a freesat dish in a, built in the last year, house in estate. There was a triplex socket in living room fed from an ordinary distribution amp. Any customer wanting Sky would need cabling from dish as triplex socket was on 1 f-connector in living room. Luckily customer was getting freesat connected to freesat tv so no extra cabling needed. 3 ethernet sockets behind tv so mebbe looking to cableless Bt & Sky boxes.

[Mark Carver]

On 01/11/2022 16:54, SH wrote:
>
> I've just retuned the TV on both its freesat option and its Other
> satellite (as Astra2/Eurobird)
>
> no sign of ITV 2/3/4 HD in freesat (yet)
>
Due to go on the EPG tomorrow, at positions 113, 5, and 7

[wrights...@f2s.com]

On Friday, 4 November 2022 at 01:04:34 UTC, Java Jive wrote:

> > All I know is that you can put the material on your screen and then record your screen. It doesn't record the sound though. I've only had half an hour with OBS so I haven't explored it more than that.
> It recorded the sound for me. I suspect that maybe you were too busy
> finding things to denigrate in GMSVs of Scotland rather than setting up
> OBStudio properly :-)

Like I said I only used it for half an hour. Could you tell me how to set it up properly then please? (It records sound when I use my camera and mike; I just have to tell it the sound and vision sources. But it didn't record sound when I tried to record from iPlayer -- or was it You Tube?)

Bill

[wrights...@f2s.com]

On Friday, 4 November 2022 at 01:04:34 UTC, Java Jive wrote:
> I suspect that maybe you were too busy
> finding things to denigrate in GMSVs of Scotland rather than setting up
> OBStudio properly :-)

PS:
1. I always think 'I suspect' sounds pretentious, like you're a magistrate or a bonkers old headmaster. "I suspect, Orifice Minor, that you've been indulging in anal sex in the dormitory. If you feel those urges again I suggest you come to my private quarters immediately." That sort of thing.
2. What's GMSV mean? I know it's some weird medical thing but...
Bill

[Mark Carver]

Google Maps Street View

[wrights...@f2s.com]

On Monday, 7 November 2022 at 17:10:50 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:

> > 2. What's GMSV mean? I know it's some weird medical thing but...
> > Bill
> Google Maps Street View

Oh. It was a rather bonkers thing for him to say then, really. I guess he was upset by what I said about the street of shitty little hovels near where he lives.
Bill

[Java Jive]

On 07/11/2022 17:18, wrights...@aol.com wrote:
>
> On Monday, 7 November 2022 at 17:10:50 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:
>>

[Quoting broken: wrights...@aol.com wrote]

>>>
>>> 2. What's GMSV mean? I know it's some weird medical thing but...
>>

>> Google Maps Street View
>
> Oh. It was a rather bonkers thing for him to say then, really. I guess he was upset by what I said about the street of shitty little hovels near where he lives.

Forfar to Lairg is the same order of magnitude distance as Forfar to
York, so if I'm near to Forfar, so are you.

And I've seen shitty hovels in every English major conurbation that I've
ever visited, and could probably find some very close to you, but I've
got better things to do.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

[Paul Ratcliffe]

On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 13:48:24 -0000, NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> Sadly the F connector is in a recessed panel which
> makes it very difficult to tighten/loosen the nut on the F connector on the
> rare occasions when the TV needs to be moved away from the satelllite and
> terrestrial cables.

Make up a short end and attach an F socket barrel. Bolt that to the TV, then
the connection to elsewhere is easily accessible.

[wrights...@f2s.com]

On Monday, 7 November 2022 at 17:51:35 UTC, Java Jive wrote:

> > Oh. It was a rather bonkers thing for him to say then, really. I guess he was upset by what I said about the street of shitty little hovels near where he lives.
> Forfar to Lairg is the same order of magnitude distance as Forfar to
> York, so if I'm near to Forfar, so are you.

No idea what you're on about. Who said anything about Forfar or York? Is it football results? 'East Fife 4 Forfar 5', that sort of thing?

>
> And I've seen shitty hovels in every English major conurbation that I've
> ever visited, and could probably find some very close to you, but I've
> got better things to do.

You're very easy to wind up.

[Java Jive]

On 09/11/2022 02:41, wrights...@aol.com wrote:
>
> On Monday, 7 November 2022 at 17:51:35 UTC, Java Jive wrote:
>>

[Quoting broken again by Bill Wright. He said:]

>>>
>>> Oh. It was a rather bonkers thing for him to say then, really. I guess he was upset by what I said about the street of shitty little hovels near where he lives.
>>
>> Forfar to Lairg is the same order of magnitude distance as Forfar to
>> York, so if I'm near to Forfar, so are you.
>
> No idea what you're on about.

No change there then.

> Who said anything about Forfar or York? Is it football results? 'East Fife 4 Forfar 5', that sort of thing?

The GMSV that was linked was to a street in Forfar, which is the same
order of magnitude distance from me as it is to you, so if, by your
claim, I am 'near' to it, so are you.

>> And I've seen shitty hovels in every English major conurbation that I've
>> ever visited, and could probably find some very close to you, but I've
>> got better things to do.
>
> You're very easy to wind up.

You waste a lot of people's time.