Humax PVR-9200T

[Ian Field]

Are there any known issues as these PVRs age?

It sometimes freezes and/or takes a very long time to perform a button
press.

Worn electrolytics in the PSU wouldn't surprise me.

Thanks.

[Woody]

"Ian Field" <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:V0FJr.549521$JL5....@fx13.am4...

There is an outfit on eBay who offer to upgrade the caps in the
PSU on any HUmax PVR. Seems that, like many organisations these
days, Humax spend time and money on designing a good tuner and
recorder but cut costs by installing a cheap o.e.m. PSU.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

[Ian Field]

"Woody" <harro...@ntlworld.spam.com> wrote in message
news:m5FJr.599567$PV.3...@fx09.am4...

Thanks. Some OEM PSU firms know the job they specialise in an do it rather
well - some OTOH don't!

The flaky operation does look a bit like noisy rail, does the ebay outfit do
the job or supply the kits?

[Brian Gaff]

Yes I have the suspicion that a lot of the crashes on my goodmans smart talk
are induced from dirty power or a grotty wall wart.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active

"Woody" <harro...@ntlworld.spam.com> wrote in message
news:m5FJr.599567$PV.3...@fx09.am4...

[sincl...@yahoo.com]

There was a problem with the 9200 with exactly your symptoms that was cured by a software update. The version no should be 1.00.23 so check yours.

[Ian Field]

<sincl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:807ed201-8995-456b...@googlegroups.com...

Many thanks - is this what I should hopefully have found:
http://www.humaxdigital.com/uk/support/downloadcenter_model.aspx?category_seq=56
- ?

There's a CD that came with it and I found various Humax media & file
manipulation tools on the way to finding the above link - have I got
everything I need to hook it to my PC via the front panel USB & burn the new
firmware?

[sincl...@yahoo.com]

Is your software up to date?

[Ian Field]

<sincl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1023e128-a5d1-4970...@googlegroups.com...

I'd put the 9200 away for now & settled down to watch telly for a while.

Later on, I'll also be checking what capacitors I have in stock, I had the
cover off it and felt the temperature of the electrolytics in the PSU - not
as in distress as some I've seen, but too hot for a long & happy life.

[Robin]

> There's a CD that came with it and I found various Humax media & file
> manipulation tools on the way to finding the above link - have I got
> everything I need to hook it to my PC via the front panel USB & burn
> the new firmware?

You cannot update the software via the USB socket on the Humax. You
need to use the serial port on the back, a "Null Modem" serial cable and
a "mature" PC with a serial port or, failing that, a USB to serial
adaptor. See the instructions on the link you provided under the tab
"Download Instruction".

Note that I have not used usb-to-serial adapters to do this as I have
always had an old PC or laptop to do the job but I have read that the
Humax can be fussy about USB-sreial adapters.
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

[Ian Field]

"Robin" <rb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jt7g5c$f2q$1...@dont-email.me...

>> There's a CD that came with it and I found various Humax media & file
>> manipulation tools on the way to finding the above link - have I got
>> everything I need to hook it to my PC via the front panel USB & burn
>> the new firmware?
>
> You cannot update the software via the USB socket on the Humax. You need
> to use the serial port on the back, a "Null Modem" serial cable and a
> "mature" PC with a serial port

Phew! - dodged the bullet there. my "mature" XP box went phut the other day,
the PSU blew, luckily only the graphics card was toast - the MOBO somehow
survived.

Is the null-modem cable just pins 2 & 3 crossed on their way to the other
end, or does it need all the HW handshake lines wired up?

[Jeff Layman]

Have you been through DSO recently? My 9200T had just the symptoms you
describe. Default resets and retunes didn't solve the problem, but it
resolved itself as soon as the DSO process was complete.

--

Jeff

[Ian Field]

"Jeff Layman" <JMLa...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:jt7h3q$ttc$1...@news.albasani.net...

DSO was months ago, sinclairtv has already drawn my attention to software
1.00.23 - I've just checked mine & it appears to be 1.00.21

Assuming I can find the connectors to make up a cable; that probably ought
to be the first thing to try.

[Ian Field]

<sincl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1023e128-a5d1-4970...@googlegroups.com...

Er .........no.

Its 1.00.21 so looks like I have to find connectors to make up a serial
cable.

Are there any specific utils I need to do a non-OTA upgrade?

[sincl...@yahoo.com]

> > On 06/07/2012 18:13, Ian Field wrote:
> >> Are there any known issues as these PVRs age?
> >>
> >> It sometimes freezes and/or takes a very long time to perform a button
> >> press.
> >>
> >> Worn electrolytics in the PSU wouldn't surprise me.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >
> > Have you been through DSO recently? My 9200T had just the symptoms you
> > describe. Default resets and retunes didn't solve the problem, but it
> > resolved itself as soon as the DSO process was complete.
>
>
> DSO was months ago, sinclairtv has already drawn my attention to software
> 1.00.23 - I've just checked mine & it appears to be 1.00.21
>
> Assuming I can find the connectors to make up a cable; that probably ought
> to be the first thing to try.

Go into the menu and do a manual update..but the new software is transmitted periodically http://www.humaxdigital.com/global/support/OAD_SoftwareUpdate_9300T_9150T.asp

[Ian Field]

<sincl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:09aba842-6fda-430a...@googlegroups.com...

There's one on Monday - but that's for a HD Fox T2.

Looks like the 9200 is too old for them to bother with OTA updates.

I've just freecycled/freegled for a pair of 9-pin serial cables so I can
make a DB9-F to DB9-F null-modem cable - all my old computer cables are in a
tea chest buried deep at the back of the garage.

[Peter Duncanson]

On Fri, 6 Jul 2012 23:12:09 +0100, "Ian Field"
<gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>
><sincl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:09aba842-6fda-430a...@googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> > On 06/07/2012 18:13, Ian Field wrote:
>>> >> Are there any known issues as these PVRs age?
>>> >>
>>> >> It sometimes freezes and/or takes a very long time to perform a button
>>> >> press.
>>> >>
>>> >> Worn electrolytics in the PSU wouldn't surprise me.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks.
>>> >
>>> > Have you been through DSO recently? My 9200T had just the symptoms you
>>> > describe. Default resets and retunes didn't solve the problem, but it
>>> > resolved itself as soon as the DSO process was complete.
>>>
>>>
>>> DSO was months ago, sinclairtv has already drawn my attention to
>>> software
>>> 1.00.23 - I've just checked mine & it appears to be 1.00.21
>>>
>>> Assuming I can find the connectors to make up a cable; that probably
>>> ought
>>> to be the first thing to try.
>>
>> Go into the menu and do a manual update..but the new software is
>> transmitted periodically
>> http://www.humaxdigital.com/global/support/OAD_SoftwareUpdate_9300T_9150T.asp
>
>
>There's one on Monday - but that's for a HD Fox T2.
>
>Looks like the 9200 is too old for them to bother with OTA updates.
>

OTA updates for the 9200 are broadcast every few months. There was an
OTA update for the 9200 just last month.

>I've just freecycled/freegled for a pair of 9-pin serial cables so I can
>make a DB9-F to DB9-F null-modem cable - all my old computer cables are in a
>tea chest buried deep at the back of the garage.
>

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

[Robin]

> Are there any specific utils I need to do a non-OTA upgrade?

The Humax site you have already visited tells you what exactly what you
need (and you can download it there). As I said before, see under the
tab
"Download Instruction".

[Robin]

> Is the null-modem cable just pins 2 & 3 crossed on their way to the
> other end, or does it need all the HW handshake lines wired up?

Just the basics: there is a diagram on the Humax site, again under the
tab "Download Instruction".

[John Legon]

Ian Field wrote:
> Is the null-modem cable just pins 2 & 3 crossed on their way to the other
> end, or does it need all the HW handshake lines wired up?

I've done RS232 with several STBs and it has always worked with just
three wires.

[Alan]

In message <20IJr.492703$IQ5.1...@fx29.am4>, Ian Field
<gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote

>Assuming I can find the connectors to make up a cable; that probably ought
>to be the first thing to try.
>

Null modem cables can be found on Ebay for under £2 incl. postage.

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[Scott]

On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 07:07:04 +0100, "Robin" <rb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Are there any specific utils I need to do a non-OTA upgrade?
>
>The Humax site you have already visited tells you what exactly what you
>need (and you can download it there). As I said before, see under the
>tab
>"Download Instruction".

I must say I never got it to work. I tried a USB to serial converter
but that never worked. I fitted a serial port and that did not work
either. As far as I could establish, the problem lay with legacy
support for 16 bit software. I gave up at that stage.

This was around the time of the introduction of HD so I bought an
HDR-FOX T2 which I am very happy with.

[Max Demian]

"Scott" <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:j5sfv75prhj13331t...@4ax.com...

There's a software alternative to WDN4OAK+ here:
http://www.tynecomp.co.uk/flash9200.html

--
Max Demian

[Ian Field]

"John Legon" <jo...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eomdnUKelbhtSWrS...@brightview.co.uk...

Thanks - that's what I found after trawling various forums.

[Ian Field]

"Robin" <rb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:jt8jlu$mg2$1...@dont-email.me...

>> Are there any specific utils I need to do a non-OTA upgrade?
>
> The Humax site you have already visited tells you what exactly what you
> need (and you can download it there). As I said before, see under the tab
> "Download Instruction".

I spent a couple of hours harvesting any info I could find and then searched
the tea chsts at the back of the garage for a null modem cable.

Today I should be able to read up all I need to get started.

[Ian Field]

"Alan" <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:yo$P2nBiz...@amac.f2s.com...

> In message <20IJr.492703$IQ5.1...@fx29.am4>, Ian Field
> <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote
>
>>Assuming I can find the connectors to make up a cable; that probably ought
>>to be the first thing to try.
>>
>
> Null modem cables can be found on Ebay for under £2 incl. postage.

.............or free if I rummage the tea chests at the back of the garage.

[Ian Field]

<sincl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:09aba842-6fda-430a...@googlegroups.com...
>

Found a 9200Flash utility that made the non-OTA upgrade completely painless.

All the info & utils I've gathered (including "save as" some of the replies)
has a folder tree to itself and eventually will be burned to a CD-RW so I
can add future updates.

Thanks to all for the help & advice.

[Paul Ratcliffe]

On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 15:53:14 +0100, Ian Field <gangprob...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

> Found a 9200Flash utility that made the non-OTA upgrade completely painless.
>
> All the info & utils I've gathered (including "save as" some of the replies)
> has a folder tree to itself and eventually will be burned to a CD-RW so I
> can add future updates.

That's nice, but there won't be any.

[Ian Field]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:ng8hv7liqi1m5ed98...@4ax.com...

> because?


The release date of the latest (1.00.23) 9200 update was 2010 - the most
recent release for a 9300 was 2011.

[Ian Field]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:mv9hv751dm77bfgps...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 22:13:18 +0100, "Ian Field"

> <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:ng8hv7liqi1m5ed98...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 17:03:15 GMT, Paul Ratcliffe
>>> <ab...@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 15:53:14 +0100, Ian Field
>>>><gangprob...@ntlworld.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Found a 9200Flash utility that made the non-OTA upgrade completely
>>>>> painless.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the info & utils I've gathered (including "save as" some of the
>>>>> replies)
>>>>> has a folder tree to itself and eventually will be burned to a CD-RW
>>>>> so
>>>>> I
>>>>> can add future updates.
>>>>
>>>>That's nice, but there won't be any.
>>>
>>> because?
>>
>>
>>The release date of the latest (1.00.23) 9200 update was 2010 - the most
>>recent release for a 9300 was 2011.
>>
>

> Humax 5500C still gets updates.


Maybe they do OTA patches and only do full upgrades online for major models
or something like that.

Its my first go at this so I've only just started learning.

[Ian Field]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message

news:vibhv7tgrkbheskq6...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 22:33:28 +0100, "Ian Field"

> I received an online update via my cable provider.


Comparing apples with oranges.

[Bill Wright]

Ian Field wrote:

>
>
> Comparing apples with oranges.
>
What's wrong with that. I can do it. Oranges are usually orange.
Apples are usually red or green, or have bits of both. Oranges have a
nasty-tasting thick skin,
whilst apples have a thin skin that you can eat. Oranges only grow in
hot places, but apples grow
even in Yorkshire. Apples make cider but oranges don't.

Bill

[Paul Ratcliffe]

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 22:55:04 +0200, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

>>> Found a 9200Flash utility that made the non-OTA upgrade completely painless.
>>>
>>> All the info & utils I've gathered (including "save as" some of the replies)
>>> has a folder tree to itself and eventually will be burned to a CD-RW so I
>>> can add future updates.
>>
>>That's nice, but there won't be any.
>

> because?

Humax have effectively end-of-life'd it. They didn't really want to do
those mods. in 2010 but were forced to in order to keep the punters
happy-ish. They have never even attempted to fix the numerous minor and
not so minor bugs it has.

[Steve Thackery]

Paul Ratcliffe wrote:

> Humax have effectively end-of-life'd it. They didn't really want to do
> those mods. in 2010 but were forced to in order to keep the punters
> happy-ish. They have never even attempted to fix the numerous minor and
> not so minor bugs it has.

Agreed. Humax's biggest crime is that they kept selling it, even when
it was years out of date.

Make no mistake, the 9200 was a classic of its day (which is well
before Freeview+), and most people would agree that it was probably the
best PVR you could buy back then.

I enjoyed mine for years, and so did many other people to whom I
recommended it.

The problem is, it's hopelessly underpowered and under-designed for
modern usage (as is the 9300, which is awfully similar). What pisses
me off is that they were selling the 9200 from their online shop until
quite recently. A year or so ago, maybe?

Their current FOX freesat PVR is in a different class altogether. It
has nothing at all in common with the 9200 (even the UI paradigms are
completely different), and it's a cracking machine.

I know this is hard, but for those people who still have a 9200 (or a
9300) I would recommend scrapping it and buying a FOX. You really
won't regret it; not for a moment.

--
SteveT

[Robin]

<snip>

> The problem is, it's hopelessly underpowered and under-designed for
> modern usage (as is the 9300, which is awfully similar). What pisses
> me off is that they were selling the 9200 from their online shop until
> quite recently. A year or so ago, maybe?
>

In what respects please is it "hopelessly underpowered and
under-designed for modern usage"? I do of course acknowledge the lack
of HD capacity (but I have a PC with a tuner which records one HD
programme at a time which is enough for here given all the repeats,
iPlayer etc and HD is so far of no interest to the elderly users whose
Humax I support). That leaves the Humaxes dealing with SD content from
Crystal Palace and Tacolneston with (fingers crossed) no current
glitches or problems. Indeed, I don't think they've done anything since
DSO other than what they are supposed to do; and they have done all that
they are supposed to do. Perhaps I am just lucky but since the latest
software was delivered all I can recall curisng about is a failing hard
disk and that's hardly down to Humax.

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 13:31:31h +0100, Steve Thackery declared:

> Humax's biggest crime is that they kept selling it, even when
> it was years out of date.

And the biggest crime committed by Humax owners was buying it

[Ian Field]

"Bill Wright" <bi...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:jtam0n$705$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Lets say that apples are the DTT Freeview decoders that the Freeview network
has no obligation to support every STB ever made.

Oranges are legacy decoders supplied by Martin's cable provider, that they
have a contractual obligation to support upgrade files or replace the
decoders.

HTH.

[Peter Duncanson]

On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 15:06:32 +0100, "Robin" <rb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

><snip>
>> The problem is, it's hopelessly underpowered and under-designed for
>> modern usage (as is the 9300, which is awfully similar). What pisses
>> me off is that they were selling the 9200 from their online shop until
>> quite recently. A year or so ago, maybe?
>>
>In what respects please is it "hopelessly underpowered and
>under-designed for modern usage"?

My information on this is second-hand.

At heart, of all these set-top boxes are computers with peripheral
equipment: tuners, decoders, hard discs, etc.

There is a processor chip with memory. My understanding is that in the
9200T the processor is seriously underpowered by today's standards and
the memory is too small for the system to do more than it already does.

>I do of course acknowledge the lack
>of HD capacity (but I have a PC with a tuner which records one HD
>programme at a time which is enough for here given all the repeats,
>iPlayer etc and HD is so far of no interest to the elderly users whose
>Humax I support). That leaves the Humaxes dealing with SD content from
>Crystal Palace and Tacolneston with (fingers crossed) no current
>glitches or problems. Indeed, I don't think they've done anything since
>DSO other than what they are supposed to do; and they have done all that
>they are supposed to do. Perhaps I am just lucky but since the latest
>software was delivered all I can recall curisng about is a failing hard
>disk and that's hardly down to Humax.

You PV is ptobably much more powerful and capable than the

[Ian Field]

"Paul Ratcliffe" <ab...@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> wrote in message
news:slrnjviloe...@news.pr.network...

> On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 22:55:04 +0200, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> Found a 9200Flash utility that made the non-OTA upgrade completely
>>>> painless.
>>>>
>>>> All the info & utils I've gathered (including "save as" some of the
>>>> replies)
>>>> has a folder tree to itself and eventually will be burned to a CD-RW so
>>>> I
>>>> can add future updates.
>>>
>>>That's nice, but there won't be any.
>>
>> because?
>
> Humax have effectively end-of-life'd it. They didn't really want to do
> those mods. in 2010 but were forced to in order to keep the punters
> happy-ish.

I'd say they had to release another update because the one before it fucked
it up!

My 9200 was scrounged on freecycle - the previous owner was a little cagy
about whether it actually worked or not, but mentioned that it was quite
some time since they last used it - and wouldn't have hung on to it if it
wasn't any good.

[Ian Field]

"Steve Thackery" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ieOdnbDcTZM44GTS...@bt.com...

> Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
>
>> Humax have effectively end-of-life'd it. They didn't really want to do
>> those mods. in 2010 but were forced to in order to keep the punters
>> happy-ish. They have never even attempted to fix the numerous minor and
>> not so minor bugs it has.
>
> Agreed. Humax's biggest crime is that they kept selling it, even when it
> was years out of date.
>
> Make no mistake, the 9200 was a classic of its day (which is well before
> Freeview+), and most people would agree that it was probably the best PVR
> you could buy back then.

My first was a Digifusion FVRT90, and nothing I've found since has had as
"comfortable" EPG - some have been so crap as to be unusable!

The 9200 is now second best for EPG ease of use - but is going to take a
*LOT* of getting used to.

ATM, I'm still using the FVRT90 EPG to find what's worth recording and if it
clashes with something I've already scheduled on that; I find it on the 9200
EPG and schedule it there.

OTOH; there's some series I wouldn't have bothered recording, not having
that feature pre - 9200.

Plenty to watch on the frequent occasions that every channel is
simultaneously broadcasting total crap.

[Ian Field]

"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message
news:jtc6e8$n2g$1...@dont-email.me...

Not guilty! - I scrounged mine on freecycle.

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 15:06:32h +0100, Robin proposed:

> and HD is so far of no interest to the elderly users whose

> Humax I support.

Why is BBC HD of no interest to them? They have some very
interesting programs on BBC HD and you do not have to watch
them at HD resolution to appreciate them.

Furthermore because of the higher bit rate used on HD transmissions,
the picture quality of BBC One HD, stv HD, ITV HD, S4C Clirlun and
Channel 4 HD is still better at lower SD resolution than a native
bit-starved SD tranmission.

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 16:18:03h +0100, Ian Field explained:

> Not guilty! - I scrounged mine on freecycle.

Surely the best way to become an owner. ;)

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 15:58:28h +0100, Ian Field wrote:

> Lets say that apples are the DTT Freeview decoders that the Freeview network
> has no obligation to support every STB ever made.

Or simply that the "Freeview network" has absolutely no obligation
whatsoever to support any STB ever made.

[Ian Field]

"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message

news:jtc9cu$n2g$7...@dont-email.me...

> On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 16:18:03h +0100, Ian Field explained:
>
>> Not guilty! - I scrounged mine on freecycle.
>
> Surely the best way to become an owner. ;)
>

It was quite an adventure searching the tea chests at the back of the garage
for a null-modem cable.

[Paul Ratcliffe]

On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 14:45:29 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote:

>> Humax's biggest crime is that they kept selling it, even when
>> it was years out of date.
>
> And the biggest crime committed by Humax owners was buying it
> even when it was years out of date.

How are people supposed to know before buying it that it's years out of
date if it's still offered for sale?

[Steve Thackery]

Robin wrote:

> In what respects please is it "hopelessly underpowered and under-designed
> for modern usage"?

To some extent this has come from Humax support engineers themselves,
talking on the various forums. Apparently memory and processor power
is extremely tight, which made it very difficult for them to fix
various bugs or add new features. It has also come from "hackers"
who've messed about with the Humax and Topfield platforms (both based
on the same reference design).

You can see a couple of minor examples in everyday use: take, for
instance, the painfully slow loading of the EPG when you first start
it. Remember, since the last release but one (I think) it's been
stored on hard disk, so it ought to be populated pretty well instantly
(like every other PVR I've used), but it can take up to 45 seconds, or
maybe more.

You maybe don't care about 45 seconds, but that is a good indication of
how desperately few processor cycles there are available (and/or I/O
bandwidth to talk to the disk, maybe).

You must have noticed how laggy it is to respond to the remote,
sometimes, and how the UI can be quite sluggish. Another example is
how slowly it handles file transfers over the serial port - again, a
sign of low priority software tasks receiving very little processor
time.

There was a forum called hummy.org (gone now, though there are others)
which had all sorts of interesting technical info on the 9200 and the
Topfield. If you can dig it out, you'll find lots of discussion on
these issues. Many of them admire how well the Humax engineers have
managed to squeeze a quart out of a pint pot.

--
SteveT

[Scott]

On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 15:34:27 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG>
wrote:

>On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 15:06:32h +0100, Robin proposed:
>
>> and HD is so far of no interest to the elderly users whose
>> Humax I support.
>
>Why is BBC HD of no interest to them? They have some very
>interesting programs on BBC HD and you do not have to watch
>them at HD resolution to appreciate them.

BBC HD is a temporary service AIUI, due to be replaced by BBC Two HD.

[Peter Duncanson]

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 17:31:39 +0100, Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 13:31:31 +0100, Steve Thackery
><nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I know this is hard, but for those people who still have a 9200 (or a
>>9300) I would recommend scrapping it and buying a FOX. You really
>>won't regret it; not for a moment.
>

>Can the FOX freesat PVR also be used to receive terrestrial
>broadcasts, or is it specifically for and limited to satellite
>transmissions (we don't have a dish, just ordinary freeview reception
>from a ground-based transmitter)?

The Humax FOXSAT boxes are for satellite only.

The Humax FOX T2 boxes are for Freeview only.

You would need one of the latter types:
http://www.humaxdigital.com/uk/products/product_stb_terrestrial.asp

[Bill Wright]

Ian Field wrote:

> Lets say that apples are the DTT Freeview decoders that the Freeview network
> has no obligation to support every STB ever made.
>
> Oranges are legacy decoders supplied by Martin's cable provider, that they
> have a contractual obligation to support upgrade files or replace the
> decoders.

Gotyer! So prunes would be 1986 Amstrad receivers?

Bill

[Bill Wright]

Ian Field wrote:

> My 9200 was scrounged on freecycle - the previous owner was a little cagy
> about whether it actually worked or not,

That's the trouble with Freecycle. The people who use it tend to be
greenies and they are inherently untrustworthy. Mark my words, see a man
in sandals and you can be sure he'll be a bounder.

Bill

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 15:37:50h +0000, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:

> How are people supposed to know before buying it that it's years out of
> date if it's still offered for sale?

The same way as with any other piece of electronic consumer devices --
research, usually by searching on the Internet, to find out when the
first model was released and if the current item on sale is the
same model or an updated model, and checking the specifications.

How do you know that that pristine, mint condition,
Ford Sapphire still on sale down at your local
Ford dealership is not years out of date?

[Ian Field]

"Bill Wright" <bi...@invalid.com> wrote in message

news:jtcds7$1tt$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Prunes would do but fig syrup would be more efficacious.

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 2nd, 2012, at 17:33:08h +0100, Scott wrote:

> BBC HD is a temporary service AIUI, due to be replaced by BBC Two HD.

Strictly speaking it is not and has never been a temporary service.

It has been decided to close it down and replace it with
BBC Two HD as a cost savings measure, along with the demise
of BBC 2 Wales, BBC 2 Scotland, and BBC 2 Northern Ireland.

No more "Newsnight Scotland" for you naughtie Scottish people,
says Auntie.

And just think of how many BBC anouncers and continuity
staff can be fired in Belfast, Caerdydd, Edinburgh, so that
people can hear central London Red Bee privatized contract
personnel instead.

Once again we see the London management slap viewers in the
face, first with the elimination of a nearly realistic regional
service BBC 2W, and now the nail in the coffin for BBC 2 Wales,
as well as the service in the other nations.

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 17:31:39h +0100, Chris Hogg asked:

> Can the FOX freesat PVR also be used to receive terrestrial
> broadcasts

The clue is in the name Free*sat* as opposed to Free*view*.

To the best of my knowledge no manufacturer has ever bothered
producing PVR with both DVB-s/s2 and DVB-t/t2 tuners and
"Freesat EPG" and "Freeview EPG" capabilities.

The closest you can get to such a thing is an AZbox receiver
with both a DVB-s/s2 tuner and DVB-t tuner (sadly no DVB-t2
tuners available) but obviously no Freesat EPG or Freeview EPG.

[Ian Field]

"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message
news:jtce4m$s2u$3...@dont-email.me...

How do you know the latest model isn't redesigned with all the good bits
buggered up?!

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 17:54:27h +0100, Bill Wright cautioned:

> Mark my words, see a man in sandals and you can be sure he'll be a bounder.

Such as the Right Honorable David Cameron, Prime Minister of the UKoGB&NI
Westminster coalition government of national salvation?

<http://www.telegraph.co.UK/travel/picturegalleries/9185744/Holiday-fashion-disasters.html?image=1>


Or that famous Labour leader from West Yorkshire?

<http://i.dailymail.co.UK/i/pix/2011/08/01/article-2021335-002E356200000258-354_468x410.jpg>


Next you will be telling us that politicians from West Yorkshire are bounders,
unlike the honest ones from South Yorkshire.

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 17:52:25h +0100, Bill Wright asked:

> So prunes would be 1986 Amstrad receivers?

Lemons, surely?

[JohnT]

"Bill Wright" <bi...@invalid.com> wrote in message

news:jtcds7$1tt$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

No! They are lemons.
--
JohnT

[Robin]

> You maybe don't care about 45 seconds, but that is a good indication
> of how desperately few processor cycles there are available (and/or
> I/O bandwidth to talk to the disk, maybe).

I come from a generation before instant gratification became the norm,
and am not yet so ga-ga that I cannot (usually) boot up the Humax 45
seconds before I need the EPG. Or as the frog-eaters have it "Mais
c'est la vie, hein?"

> You must have noticed how laggy it is to respond to the remote,
> sometimes, and how the UI can be quite sluggish.

Well no actually - but then my expectatiuons are low (see above).

> Another example is
> how slowly it handles file transfers over the serial port - again, a
> sign of low priority software tasks receiving very little processor
> time.

I didn't even know that file t/f over the *serial* port was possible.
If you mean the USB then yes, but then I've found it adequate
(esepcially since I learnt the benefits of setting the Humax to games
first, and of using the alternative software - the Humax software for
t/f being the one thing for which I would criticise them ).

> There was a forum called hummy.org (gone now, though there are others)
> which had all sorts of interesting technical info on the 9200 and the
> Topfield. If you can dig it out, you'll find lots of discussion on
> these issues. Many of them admire how well the Humax engineers have
> managed to squeeze a quart out of a pint pot.

Oh yes I used to read hummy.org routinely. But perhaps I read some of
it differently - ie as the Humax engineers managing to deliver a
reasonable end-user experience from an ageing platform. But then I've
always been more of a Morris Minor/Rover/Ford Focus rather than a BMW
man :)
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

[David Taylor]

On 2012-07-08, J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote:
>
> Next you will be telling us that politicians from West Yorkshire are bounders,
> unlike the honest ones from South Yorkshire.

Has anyone ever been delusional enough to claim that any politicians are honest?

--
David Taylor

[Steve Thackery]

Peter Duncanson wrote:

> The Humax FOXSAT boxes are for satellite only.
>
> The Humax FOX T2 boxes are for Freeview only

I've got one of each. The FOXSAT box has gone a worryingly long time
without a software update, and yet it needs one: it doesn't support
on-line content at all, and it has a very primitive-looking UI compared
with the FOX T2 (it's basically a very thin layer on top of the Linux
OS, whereas the FOX T2 has a slightly thicker layer) :-)

Development of the FOX T2 seems to be active, but I fear the FOXSAT may
already be "deprecated" in Humax's eyes.

--
SteveT

[Ian Field]

"David Taylor" <davidt...@yadt.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnjvjhm0.umt...@crucible.yadt.co.uk...

Politicians.

[Scott]

On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 17:03:45 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG>
wrote:

>On Sunday, July 2nd, 2012, at 17:33:08h +0100, Scott wrote:
>
>> BBC HD is a temporary service AIUI, due to be replaced by BBC Two HD.
>
>Strictly speaking it is not and has never been a temporary service.

Agreed. Temporary from now on though.

>
>It has been decided to close it down and replace it with
>BBC Two HD as a cost savings measure, along with the demise
>of BBC 2 Wales, BBC 2 Scotland, and BBC 2 Northern Ireland.
>
>No more "Newsnight Scotland" for you naughtie Scottish people,
>says Auntie.

I assume some sort of equivalent will need to go on to BBC One
Scotland, or what about putting it on BBC Alba (with subtitles of
course)? The Scottish political establishment would not wear the idea
of not having a late night political show.

>
>And just think of how many BBC anouncers and continuity
>staff can be fired in Belfast, Caerdydd, Edinburgh, so that
>people can hear central London Red Bee privatized contract
>personnel instead.

I assumed that the same continuity staff were used for BBC One and BBC
Two. The 'national' variants of BBC One are to continue, indeed
upgraded to HD. Will there be any staff losses?

>
>Once again we see the London management slap viewers in the
>face, first with the elimination of a nearly realistic regional
>service BBC 2W, and now the nail in the coffin for BBC 2 Wales,
>as well as the service in the other nations.

AIUI this is returning to the situation when BBC2 started. Was it not
a single channel then?

[Bill Wright]

J G Miller wrote:
> On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 17:31:39h +0100, Chris Hogg asked:
>
>> Can the FOX freesat PVR also be used to receive terrestrial
>> broadcasts
>
> The clue is in the name Free*sat* as opposed to Free*view*.

So a 'colour tv set' can't receive monochrome pictures? It just isn't
that obvious to Mr and Mrs J Bloggs as it is to you, JG.

Bill

[Bill Wright]

J G Miller wrote:

> Next you will be telling us that politicians from West Yorkshire are bounders,
> unlike the honest ones from South Yorkshire.
>

S Yorks politicans are the worst of all. Donny council being a prime
example.

Bill

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 18:19:49h +0100, Ian Field asked:

> How do you know the latest model isn't redesigned with all the
> good bits buggered up?!

Sometimes it is.

As always the advice is, wait a while after a new model comes out,
then read as many reviews as possible.

Just remember when Vista was released and people bought computers
with Vista pre-installed, after a few months, stores were offering
downgrades to Windoze XP which made a lot of customers much happier. ;)

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 20:11:04h +0100, Scott wrote:

> I assume some sort of equivalent will need to go on to BBC One
> Scotland

That will really annoy BBC One Scotland viewers who will not
want a political analysis interrupting their otherwise
mind numbing entertainment program being played out by
privatized contract staff in White City.

> The Scottish political establishment would not wear the idea
> of not having a late night political show.

Well it is all fuel for the independence debate, eh?

> Will there be any staff losses?

Staff are the most expensive item, so if there are no
staff losses, not much point in cutting the service,
is there?

With half the time or possibly less of continuity to do, maybe
more than half can be "let go".

Remember this is the goal of the BBC's plan
"Cutting Quality First".

> AIUI this is returning to the situation when BBC2 started. Was it not
> a single channel then?

Only available to viewers on the Crystal Palace transmitter.

Personally my view is that regional opt outs have no place on
BBC One and BBC Two and each region should have a dedicated
television service. In the case of England, even macro regions
such as the original North, Midlands and East Anglia, South and West
for other than news and weather and a the dedicated regional
topical shows.

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 20:53:16h +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

> So a 'colour tv set' can't receive monochrome pictures?

So a 3D tv set cannot receive 2D pictures? ;)

And you need an HDTV antenna to receive BBC HD! ;) ;)

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 20:54:43h +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

> Donny council being a prime example.

So the elections for the council are a farce then?

[Ian Field]

"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message

news:jtcp79$iic$5...@dont-email.me...

A few days ago my XP box went phut, so I placed orders for all the parts +
Win 7 - I've since discovered that the PSU in its death-throes only toasted
the graphics card, the MOBO somehow survived.

Maybe I should use the spare PC take up Linux in those odd moments of
boredom.

[Scott]

On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 20:16:15 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG>
wrote:

>On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 20:11:04h +0100, Scott wrote:
>
>> I assume some sort of equivalent will need to go on to BBC One
>> Scotland
>
>That will really annoy BBC One Scotland viewers who will not
>want a political analysis interrupting their otherwise
>mind numbing entertainment program being played out by
>privatized contract staff in White City.

When did politicians become averse to annoying the public?

>
>> The Scottish political establishment would not wear the idea
>> of not having a late night political show.
>
>Well it is all fuel for the independence debate, eh?

Yes, I would agree with that. If the perception is that an
independent Scotland would be more parochial, that might put some
people off the idea.

>
>> Will there be any staff losses?
>
>Staff are the most expensive item, so if there are no
>staff losses, not much point in cutting the service,
>is there?

I assumed that it was more to do with cutting the programmes and
simplifying the multiplexes. Could one continuity announcer not cover
all the English regions, for example, just by pre-recording each
announcement 'This is BBC One in the South East', 'This is BBC One
North', 'This is BBC One Midlands' etc the playing the appropriate
announcement by computer? I am convinced this is how radio stations
such as Capital operate.

>
>With half the time or possibly less of continuity to do, maybe
>more than half can be "let go".
>
>Remember this is the goal of the BBC's plan
>"Cutting Quality First".

Because the licence fee is frozen and the BBC has taken on extra
responsibilities. More controversially, because a lot of people who
don't watch much BBC think the licence fee is far too high a price to
pay for being allowed to operate a television???

>
>> AIUI this is returning to the situation when BBC2 started. Was it not
>> a single channel then?
>
>Only available to viewers on the Crystal Palace transmitter.

Was there not a period of several years when BBC2 was available across
the UK as s single channel?

>
>Personally my view is that regional opt outs have no place on
>BBC One and BBC Two and each region should have a dedicated
>television service. In the case of England, even macro regions
>such as the original North, Midlands and East Anglia, South and West
>for other than news and weather and a the dedicated regional
>topical shows.

Instead of BBC One or in addition?

[Scott]

On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 20:06:03 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG>
wrote:

I think they were considered to be 'upgrades' AIR :-)

[Ian Field]

"Scott" <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5jsjv79kd2mdieq9n...@4ax.com...

When I recently inquired about the price of Win7, my response to the answer
was: "OK - how much is Vista" - the answer to that: "more expensive!".

[Ian Field]

"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message
news:jtcr3m$iic$8...@dont-email.me...

> On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 20:54:43h +0100, Bill Wright wrote:
>
>> Donny council being a prime example.
>
> So the elections for the council are a farce then?
>

Pretty much!

[Max Demian]

"Steve Thackery" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ieOdnbDcTZM44GTS...@bt.com...
> Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
>
>> Humax have effectively end-of-life'd it. They didn't really want to do
>> those mods. in 2010 but were forced to in order to keep the punters
>> happy-ish. They have never even attempted to fix the numerous minor and
>> not so minor bugs it has.
>
> Agreed. Humax's biggest crime is that they kept selling it, even when it
> was years out of date.
>
> Make no mistake, the 9200 was a classic of its day (which is well before
> Freeview+), and most people would agree that it was probably the best PVR
> you could buy back then.
>
> I enjoyed mine for years, and so did many other people to whom I
> recommended it.
>
> The problem is, it's hopelessly underpowered and under-designed for modern
> usage (as is the 9300, which is awfully similar). What pisses me off is
> that they were selling the 9200 from their online shop until quite
> recently. A year or so ago, maybe?
>
> Their current FOX freesat PVR is in a different class altogether. It has
> nothing at all in common with the 9200 (even the UI paradigms are
> completely different), and it's a cracking machine.
>
> I know this is hard, but for those people who still have a 9200 (or a
> 9300) I would recommend scrapping it and buying a FOX. You really won't
> regret it; not for a moment.

I fail to see the point in scrapping a machine that still works with only
minor shortcomings.

--
Max Demian

[Max Demian]

"Ian Field" <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:IkhKr.471489$a15.1...@fx11.am4...
>
> "Paul Ratcliffe" <ab...@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> wrote in message
> news:slrnjviloe...@news.pr.network...
>> On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 22:55:04 +0200, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Found a 9200Flash utility that made the non-OTA upgrade completely
>>>>> painless.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the info & utils I've gathered (including "save as" some of the
>>>>> replies)
>>>>> has a folder tree to itself and eventually will be burned to a CD-RW
>>>>> so I
>>>>> can add future updates.
>>>>
>>>>That's nice, but there won't be any.
>>>
>>> because?

>>
>> Humax have effectively end-of-life'd it. They didn't really want to do
>> those mods. in 2010 but were forced to in order to keep the punters
>> happy-ish.
>

> I'd say they had to release another update because the one before it
> fucked it up!

You must be thinking of one of the other 9xxxT series.

Software update 1.00.23 for the 9200T was necessary as a change in the way
in which the programmes were transmitted slowed the machine down to the
point that it failed to respond to user commands. The solution was to reduce
the priority of the EPG update, and store the EPG on HDD so it was available
shortly after startup.

--
Max Demian

[Ian Field]

"Max Demian" <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:a5uf43...@mid.individual.net...

And it shows - mines been set up and left on over 24h and still no EPG for
the first 4 BBC channels.

[Graham.]

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:59:03 +0100, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com>
wrote:

>Ian Field wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Comparing apples with oranges.
>>
>What's wrong with that. I can do it. Oranges are usually orange.
>Apples are usually red or green, or have bits of both. Oranges have a
>nasty-tasting thick skin,
>whilst apples have a thin skin that you can eat. Oranges only grow in
>hot places, but apples grow
>even in Yorkshire. Apples make cider but oranges don't.
>
>Bill

Steven Fry recons the orange is mis named due to a misunderstanding
with English grammar, and it should be called a norange.

an orange
a norange

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 21:43:50h +0100, Ian Field wrote:

> Maybe I should use the spare PC take up Linux in those odd moments of
> boredom.

My advice would be to download a live DVD eg Mint Linux or openSUSE,
burn it to a DVD+RW, boot it up and just give it a try.

If you do not like it, you can always re-use the DVD+RW.

If you do like it, then decide first whether you want a dual boot machine
or a GNU/Linux only machine.

As to which distribution or even desktop environment is best for you,
that all comes down to personal preferences, because the list is just
too long.

<http://distrowatch.COM/>

They all have Linux as the kernel, and the difference is in the packaging
and which software is offered by default on the installation CD/DVD.

Or maybe you should try a BSD instead ;)

<http://www.openbsd.ORG/>

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 21:49:19h +0100, Scott wrote:

> When did politicians become averse to annoying the public?

Is that not part of their job description ;)

> If the perception is that an independent Scotland would be
> more parochial, that might put some people off the idea.

Surely independence always leads to more parochialism --
is it not unavoidable and inevitable? And surely nowhere
near as dangerous as nationalism.

> I assumed that it was more to do with cutting the programmes and
> simplifying the multiplexes.

I doubt that there is much of a saving in simplifying the multiplexes,
but cutting programs will as you say be the greatest cost saving,
which will mean that they will not be transferred to BBC 1 Scotland.

> Because the licence fee is frozen and the BBC has taken on extra
> responsibilities.

Which resulted from the BBC taking on the Bliar administration
and losing.

> Was there not a period of several years when BBC2 was available across
> the UK as s single channel?

Yes, I was just adressing the very initial case. Regional announcements
and variations did not appear on BBC 2 until the mid 1970s as far as I
recall, possibly related to the HQ of regional television being moved
to Pebble Mill.

> Instead of BBC One or in addition?

As I said, no place on BBC 1 or BBC 2, so "instead of". This would mean
only one BBC 1 feed would be required terrestrially or on satellite,
and BBC 1 +1 would be feasible (although entirely inappropriate).

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 23:34:34h +0100, Graham. wrote:

> Steven Fry recons the orange is mis named due to a misunderstanding
> with English grammar, and it should be called a norange.

Why not a Chinese Apple?

<http://nl.wikipedia.ORG/wiki/Sinaasappel>

[S Viemeister]

On 7/8/2012 6:34 PM, Graham. wrote:

> Steven Fry recons the orange is mis named due to a misunderstanding
> with English grammar, and it should be called a norange.
>
> an orange
> a norange
>

Rather like an apron should be a napron.

[Bill Wright]

Absolutely.

Bill

[Max Demian]

"Ian Field" <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:tJnKr.696560$2B2.6...@fx30.am4...

> "Max Demian" <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:a5uf43...@mid.individual.net...

>> Software update 1.00.23 for the 9200T was necessary as a change in the
>> way in which the programmes were transmitted slowed the machine down to
>> the point that it failed to respond to user commands. The solution was to
>> reduce the priority of the EPG update,
>
> And it shows - mines been set up and left on over 24h and still no EPG for
> the first 4 BBC channels.

That may be a different thing. I've noticed that since the (London) DSO
'holes' keep developing in the EPG, often where there were programmes
previously. Usually they 'heal' before the programme is due.

--
Max Demian

[Ian Field]

"S Viemeister" <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote in message
news:a5uokd...@mid.individual.net...

YBF - some little kid complaining about; "a nake".

[J G Miller]

On Monday, July 9th, 2012, at 03:22:02h +0100, Bill Wright declared:

Does it not therefore follow that if elections for the municipal council
are a farce, you do not actually have democracy at a local level, and if
you do not have democracy at a local level, you are not living in a
democracy?


"My idea of a politician is a thief, a liar and a cheat."
-- Roy Hogben, 59, of Battersea, London Borough of Wandsworth

"The share of the British electorate who carry a party card was 10%
in the 1960s, but is now a mere 1.1%, among the lowest figures in Europe."

<http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jul/06/local-democracy-political-activism?newsfeed=true>


"British (sic) democracy in terminal decline, warns report"

"the study warns disillusionment among voters
'threatens to undermine democratic decision-making'" at

<http://www.guardian.co.UK/uk/2012/jul/06/british-democracy-decline-report>

[Ian Field]

"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message

news:jtet1o$uua$1...@dont-email.me...

> On Monday, July 9th, 2012, at 03:22:02h +0100, Bill Wright declared:
>
>> J G Miller wrote:
>>> On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 20:54:43h +0100, Bill Wright wrote:
>>>
>>>> Donny council being a prime example.
>>>
>>> So the elections for the council are a farce then?
>>
>> Absolutely.
>
> Does it not therefore follow that if elections for the municipal council
> are a farce, you do not actually have democracy at a local level, and if
> you do not have democracy at a local level, you are not living in a
> democracy?

A typical local council is not entirely dissimilar to most peoples
perception of a secret society.

[J G Miller]

On Monday, July 9th, 2012 16:31:55 +0100, Ian Field wrote:

> A typical local council is not entirely dissimilar to most peoples
> perception of a secret society.

Is that because many of the people on the local council are
members of a "secret" society?

Incidentally, if you think local democracy is bad in the MB of Doncaster,
remember it is even worse in the City of London.

One is only permitted to stand for election to the council there
if one is nominated by a current member of the council.

It helps ensure that only the right type of people get elected.

[Bill Wright]

brightside S9 wrote:

> Isn't the electorate for Donny council part of the electortate that
> chose Ed Milliband to represent them?
>
No, the electorate in Donny would vote for a turd in a top hat if that's
what's Labour HQ sent along. They voted for Eddie but didn't chose him.

Bill

[Bill Wright]

As a child I believed I had a relative called Arlouisa.

Bill

[Scott]

On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 23:40:02 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG>
wrote:

>On Sunday, July 8th, 2012, at 21:49:19h +0100, Scott wrote:
>
>> When did politicians become averse to annoying the public?
>
>Is that not part of their job description ;)

Not the election address though :-)

>
>> If the perception is that an independent Scotland would be
>> more parochial, that might put some people off the idea.
>
>Surely independence always leads to more parochialism --
>is it not unavoidable and inevitable? And surely nowhere
>near as dangerous as nationalism.

According to today's Herald, the no campaign is 20 points ahead.

>
>> I assumed that it was more to do with cutting the programmes and
>> simplifying the multiplexes.
>
>I doubt that there is much of a saving in simplifying the multiplexes,
>but cutting programs will as you say be the greatest cost saving,
>which will mean that they will not be transferred to BBC 1 Scotland.

I suppose it depends whether BBC Scotland pay for the programmes.
Could it end up with more Scottish programmes on BBC One?

>
>> Because the licence fee is frozen and the BBC has taken on extra
>> responsibilities.
>
>Which resulted from the BBC taking on the Bliar administration
>and losing.
>
>> Was there not a period of several years when BBC2 was available across
>> the UK as s single channel?
>
>Yes, I was just adressing the very initial case. Regional announcements
>and variations did not appear on BBC 2 until the mid 1970s as far as I
>recall, possibly related to the HQ of regional television being moved
>to Pebble Mill.

I thought that. Of course in the early days BBC1 was VHF and BBC was
UHF so you needed a special aerial for BBC2 and a dual standard TV.
I'm sure at that time BBC2 was national.

>
>> Instead of BBC One or in addition?
>
>As I said, no place on BBC 1 or BBC 2, so "instead of". This would mean
>only one BBC 1 feed would be required terrestrially or on satellite,
>and BBC 1 +1 would be feasible (although entirely inappropriate).

I suspect local programmes would never be sufficiently well funded to
be able to compete with 'national' televison.