Trying to align a satellite dish?
Mick.
I have bought at B&Q a Ross High Definition Satellite Kit, 22300HD-R
It is for Freesat but other Satellites can be tuned.
Can anyone help with how to get it aligned enough to register the signal
strength to start with.
I know there is a meter that can be bought but can I get by without it?
I am on the Isle of Wight at Newport, if it makes a difference.
Any help welcomed.
Mick.
Dave Plowman (News)
> Any help welcomed.
Google. You'll get lots of info on how to do this.
--
*Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Java Jive
quite cheap. The pages on my site entitled "Mounting A Dish Or Rotor"
should tell you all you need to know (*1):
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/AudioVisualTV/SatelliteTV/SatelliteTV.html
*1 Be aware, though, that I've just discovered today that the
Calculator page is giving problems in Opera 10. I've reported it to
Opera as a bug, although I'm still on the lookout for a fix. If you
must use Opera 10, you'd best choose a different calculator page, but
AFAIAA there shouldn't be any problems with any other browsers.
On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 00:12:10 +0100, "Mick." <mrcy...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
> Can anyone help with how to get it aligned enough to register the signal
> strength to start with.
>
> I know there is a meter that can be bought but can I get by without it?
--
=========================================================
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
Michael Chare
news:6v-dndE1DJ_KtpHR...@brightview.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I have bought at B&Q a Ross High Definition Satellite Kit, 22300HD-R
>
> It is for Freesat but other Satellites can be tuned.
>
>
>
> Can anyone help with how to get it aligned enough to register the signal
> strength to start with.
>
> I know there is a meter that can be bought but can I get by without it?
>
Yes, although a cheap meter does help particularly if you can't watch a
connected TV whilst moving the dish.
>
> I am on the Isle of Wight at Newport, if it makes a difference.
>
No. Assuming that you want UK satellites.
The dish must have line of site to the satellite. A tree in the way would
block the signal.
Don't touch an F plug outside if it is connected to a TV/satellite receiver
that is switched on.
--
Michael Chare
housetrained
>> I am on the Isle of Wight at Newport, if it makes a difference.
>>
>
> No. Assuming that you want UK satellites.
>
> The dish must have line of site to the satellite. A tree in the way would
> block the signal.
>
> Don't touch an F plug outside if it is connected to a TV/satellite
> receiver that is switched on.
>
> --
> Michael Chare
>
--
John the West Ham fan
John Legon
>Hi all,
>
> I have bought at B&Q a Ross High Definition Satellite Kit, 22300HD-R
>
>It is for Freesat but other Satellites can be tuned.
>
>Can anyone help with how to get it aligned enough to register the signal
>strength to start with.
As has been said, www.dishpointer.com will give a good starting-point
for the dish direction and elevation for Astra 28.2 E. You can set the
elevation using the scale engraved on the mounting bracket of the dish.
Since the Ross receiver is pre-programmed with channel data for Freesat,
it should be fairly easy to get started, since it will give picture and
sound as soon as the satellite starts to come into alignment.
I would begin by pointing the dish a few degrees to the east of the
expected position, then very slowly rotate it southwards. If you're
working alone and can't see the TV screen while moving the dish, you
might try putting a cordless phone near the TV with the sound turned up.
Then listen on the other phone for TV sound while you move the dish.
(Channel 1 should be BBC1 on the Ross box).
>I know there is a meter that can be bought but can I get by without it?
Yes, using the signal/quality meters on the Ross box to tweak the dish
alignment. BTW, I found that my Philex meter wouldn't work well with
the Ross kit, as the high output from the LNB overloaded it :)
>I am on the Isle of Wight at Newport, if it makes a difference.
It will make a difference.
John L
Brian Gaff
bottom of a cliff in the direction of the sat, you won't get a signal.....
OK may seem obvious, but some of the things I've heard over the years
brings it home to me that the public are completely clueless about aerials
and particularly sat dishes.
Brian
--
Brian Gaff - bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"John Legon" <jo...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ovZkWBAY...@legon.demon.co.uk...
zulu
website!
It is superb from an accessability point of view.
It works well using Firefox.
I will use it as an example of how websites should be mada available for
VIP's (Visually Impaired Persons)
--
ŚzuluŚ VIP
Dave Plowman (News)
brightside S9 <address@replyto_is_not.invalid> wrote:
> This is the one niggle I have with the Ross set up, compared with the
> Silver Crest (Lidl) SL 65 where the strength and quality bars on the
> TV are updated, it seems to me, at least once a second.
The Lidl kit I got included a satellite finder - a device that bleeped as
you homed in. Worked pretty well.
--
*Why don't you ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery"?
Eric Smith
Best bet is get a meter, they are cheap as chips these days and for little
use it doesn't have to be an expensive one.
Thats the only easy way to ensure the dish is aligned properly and with
little effort.
John Legon
id> wrote:
> The Ross comes with a list of locations where the elevation and
>azimuth and skew settings are given. I guess Southampton is the
>nearest listed location to Newport.
An advantage with dishpointer.com though is that the satellite direction
can be related to local landmarks, and obstructions can be identified.
>The problem with the Ross is that when moving the dish to get a signal
>is that it takes 5 seconds for a change to show on strength / quality
>bars on the TV set. This is far fom ideal when, seting up the dish,
>the TV set is not in view. It is not much better when the TV set is
>in view!
Interesting. I've found that the Ross meter bar responds very quickly -
within half a second - *but* it's completely oblivious to changes in
signal quality above a certain level, topping out at 63% for DVB-S and
69% for DVB-S2 regardless of transponder etc.
Thus, watching the meter bar while tracking across a satellite position,
the signal quality will rapidly rise from 50% to 63% say, as the dish is
moved, but it will then stay stuck at 63% even though the signal must be
peaking out at a higher level. This can give the impression that the
meter is slow to respond, as a significant movement of the dish around
the position of peak alignment may have no visible effect.
As a result, it's best to use the weakest transponder on a satellite
when fine-tuning the alignment with the Ross box.
--
John Legon
Java Jive
<zulu.romeo...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Totally off topic, but 10/10 for the simplicity and readability of the
> website!
"Why, thank you, kind Sir!", or words to that effect.
> It is superb from an accessability point of view.
I have actually given some thought to that, and have done what I feel
I can reasonably be expected to do as a private individual with no
funding. The biggest omission was probably not using MHTML on the
pages with heavy mathematics - it would've been an awful lot of
work, and I would still have had to code the pages normally for IE
users, because IE6, and IIRC IE7, only support MHTML via a plug-in.
> It works well using Firefox.
I should hope so, that's the browser I use every day!
> I will use it as an example of how websites should be mada available for
> VIP's (Visually Impaired Persons)
That's a fine compliment! Thanks very much!
Jim
Just installed one of these a couple of weeks ago. A
meter could have saved a bit of time, but the box
itself has a display that can be monitored on TV, if
it's not too far away (or someone can assist). It
might be handy having a meter if you're going to be up
a ladder.
dishpointer.com is excellent and will give you a
reliable direction for pointing as long as you can
pick out a landmark (even in a neighbouring property)
for pointing the dish arm. If you can get a good
sighting, this will help a lot. Fix the adjustment
bracket then move on to elevation setting.
Elevation is trickier, as the angle advised on the
site and in the supplied leaflet (20.8 degrees) is
much greater than what I needed in practice. My dish
actually gets best signal pointing slightly below
vertical (i.e. towards the ground), though I'm a lot
further north than you. A few other users had a
problem getting a signal, so this may be a common
issue. If you can't get a signal, drop the dish a bit
lower.
The box display shows signal level at 99% no matter
what the dish is pointing to, so just ignore it. My
signal quality maxes at 63%. If the dish is slightly
off elevation, it can drop to 48% or less on the
higher frequencies (it seems to go in 3% steps), so
tune to one of these (usually a high numbered channel)
when making final adjustments. I found the skew angle
on the LNB quite forgiving - there was no difference
in quality over quite a wide angle, so set it as
advised and forget it.
You'll need to load the update from the Ross web-site
to get a more up-to-date channel line-up. Although
it's the same satellite and channels, you won't get
actual "Freesat" (there's no EPG), so channel numbers
will be different to published ones, unless you change
them manually. You might also need to scan manually
to pick up the newer HD channels (for ITV regions)
which have been testing prior to launch this week for
the World Cup.
My box has locked up a few times, and Ross support
says another update may be issued, so check the
web-site occasionally.
Java Jive
this is true of any dish calculator site that uses Google Maps or an
equivalent. Besides dp, there's my own linked above, satsig, etc.
However, some are more accurate than others. I haven't actually done
a comparison with satsig, but in the past I've exchanged helpful
emails with the site owner, and the exchange suggests to me that he
knows what he's about, and gives me confidence in the site. My own
and the dp site itself are certainly accurate enough for purpose.
However, I would beware of using the dp widget embedded in third party
sites, as last time I checked it out, about a year ago, I found it on
average half a degree or so out, which when combined with inevitable
practical inaccuracies in the setting up process, might on occasion be
significant enough to land one on the wrong sat.
On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 12:46:40 +0100, John Legon
<jo...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> An advantage with dishpointer.com though is that the satellite direction
> can be related to local landmarks, and obstructions can be identified.
John Legon
"Jim" <j...@any.net> wrote:
> Mick. wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have bought at B&Q a Ross High Definition Satellite Kit,
22300HD-R
> Elevation is trickier, as the angle advised on the
> site and in the supplied leaflet (20.8 degrees) is
> much greater than what I needed in practice.
I've just looked at my Ross dish and the angle set on the elevation scale is
indeed about 5 degrees less than dishpointer.com says it ought to be...
> The box display shows signal level at 99% no matter
> what the dish is pointing to, so just ignore it.
Agreed.
> My
> signal quality maxes at 63%.
Same here. For DVB-S.
> If the dish is slightly
> off elevation, it can drop to 48% or less on the
> higher frequencies (it seems to go in 3% steps),
> so
> tune to one of these (usually a high numbered channel)
> when making final adjustments.
Agreed.
>I found the skew angle
> on the LNB quite forgiving - there was no difference
> in quality over quite a wide angle, so set it as
> advised and forget it.
It probably does make a difference, but when the Ross meter is already maxed
out you won't see it.
> My box has locked up a few times, and Ross support
> says another update may be issued, so check the
> web-site occasionally.
I don't get any lock-ups in general use, but it will always happen if I try
to edit the name of a recording. It's good that Ross are actively
supporting this box.
Java Jive
>
> Just installed one of these a couple of weeks ago. A
> meter could have saved a bit of time, but the box
> itself has a display that can be monitored on TV, if
> it's not too far away (or someone can assist). It
> might be handy having a meter if you're going to be up
> a ladder.
Yes - a meter is not absolutely essential but is certainly handy.
> dishpointer.com is excellent and will give you a
> reliable direction for pointing as long as you can
> pick out a landmark (even in a neighbouring property)
> for pointing the dish arm. If you can get a good
> sighting, this will help a lot. Fix the adjustment
> bracket then move on to elevation setting.
See my other post about calculators generally.
> Elevation is trickier, as the angle advised on the
> site and in the supplied leaflet (20.8 degrees) is
> much greater than what I needed in practice. My dish
> actually gets best signal pointing slightly below
> vertical (i.e. towards the ground), though I'm a lot
> further north than you. A few other users had a
> problem getting a signal, so this may be a common
> issue. If you can't get a signal, drop the dish a bit
> lower.
You probably have an offset dish. The correct angles for setting up
these are explained on my site, and the calculator there can be
programmed to allow for the offset by choosing the right options.
Mick.
Hello all,
It is my brother who is putting the B&Q a Ross High Definition
Satellite Kit, 22300HD-R up.
He has just emailed to say, with the help received here he has now got a
good picture.
All I did was help him cut a tree down yesterday that was right in the way!
Thank you everyone.
Mick.
Peter Duncanson
wrote:
Was it his tree or did it belong to a neigbour or the local council?
:-)
--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)
Mick.
"Peter Duncanson" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:okvp06l7hfnpe36q4...@4ax.com...
> Peter Duncanson.
It was a neibours tree, they had contacted someone to cut it down last year
who did not show up, so they were glad for us to do it, of course my brother
now has to get rid of it!
Mick.
Peter Duncanson
wrote:
That's fine then. Everyone is happy.
Alan
<mrcy...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
>
>Can anyone help with how to get it aligned enough to register the signal
>strength to start with.
>
Enter your full address
Satellite = 28.2E Astra, 2A, 2B, 2D
With your mouse drag the end of the green line to where yo are going to
install the dish. This tells you in which direction to point the disk
--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Glenn Millar
Installer who could help just up the road from you.
Regards
Glenn.
Brian Gaff
Brian
--
Brian Gaff - bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Mick." <mrcy...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:oIWdnQw-Q9walZDR...@brightview.com...
Broadback
outside a window through which I could see the TV. Then by pointing the
dish in the rough direction I fiddled with its direction and elevation
until I got the strongest signal. Using a compass I found in which
direction it was pointing, and a piece of card with string attached with
a weight on the end I marked the elevation. Next I mounted the dish in
its permanent position, using the compass and "elevation meter" to
position it. This gave a reasonable reading, Then with the help of an
unpaid assistant (my wife) I tweaked it for the best signal then Moved
the LNB for maximum perception.
John Legon
>That answers one of the peculiarities that I noticed on the Ross.
>
>Signal strength is 100% on most channels and quality varies from
>55(ish)% to 60 (ish)%.
>
>The dish and LNB used are the ones from the Lidl SL65 where on the
>strength varies from 85% to 90% and the quality varies from 75% to
>80%.
I've had a similar experience with my other FTA satellite box, which is
a Philex 28212. Since this is now connected up through the loop-through
on the Ross, it's easy to compare reported levels for the same signals.
At present, for a couple of strong and weak transponders, I get these
quality readings :
Philex Ross
~~~~~~ ~~~~
ITV Meridian 82% 63%
CBS Reality 48% 54%
So whilst the stronger signal gets a much better reading on the Philex,
the weaker signal actually looks better on the Ross. As I said before,
the Ross never reports above 63% (for Astra/Eurobird).
>When I installed the Ross on this dish and LNB the low, compared to
>the SL65, signal quality concerned me. I messed around with the dish
>to no avail, so I put back the SL65 and got the above figures that the
>SL65 always gives, and couldn't improve on them with dish fiddling.
I don't think the Ross tuner is insensitive, it's just that the meter is
poorly implemented. I generally use the Philex to check the levels when
changing satellites on the Ross dish.
--
John Legon
Ian Jackson
<w...@smith.plus.com> writes
The only time I've put up a satellite dish was about 15 years ago, for
Astra 19.2E (still working, last time I looked). Having a spectrum
analyser, it was pretty easy to look at a tap off the LNB output, and
see the full IF spectrum from 950 to 2000MHz.
As the TV channels were FM, alternate and slightly overlapping, I made
sure to rotate the LNB in order to minimise the 'in-between' channels on
the 'wrong' polarization (rather than maximise the wanted channels). Do
you still do the same with digital signals? I'm seriously thinking of
installing a Freesat system, and need to know!
--
Ian
John Legon
"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> As the TV channels were FM, alternate and slightly overlapping, I made
> sure to rotate the LNB in order to minimise the 'in-between' channels on
> the 'wrong' polarization (rather than maximise the wanted channels). Do
> you still do the same with digital signals?
Usually, the skew of the LNB is adjusted to maximize the signal "quality",
which AFAIK can be equated with the minimum bit error rate, as displayed by
the receiver's signal-quality meter-bar. That's all there is to it.
Really.
Ian Jackson
Legon <jo...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
V interleaved, and somewhat overlapping?
With FM, because of capture effect, you could tolerate the overlap of
the essentially low-energy part of the signal at the channel edges, and
therefore squeeze more channels in a given bandwidth. With digital, do
you have to keep the signals totally separated, or is the
cross-polarization isolation sufficient (and sufficiently repeatable) to
allow you to use exactly the same frequency twice?
--
Ian
wrights...@f2s.com
<ianREMOVETHISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <0_-dnSoaoKuCzJPRnZ2dnUVZ7oOdn...@brightview.co.uk>, John
> Legon <j...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>
> Noted. Are the digital signals transmitted like the old FMs, with H and
> V interleaved, and somewhat overlapping?
>
> With FM, because of capture effect, you could tolerate the overlap of
> the essentially low-energy part of the signal at the channel edges, and
> therefore squeeze more channels in a given bandwidth. With digital, do
> you have to keep the signals totally separated, or is the
> cross-polarization isolation sufficient (and sufficiently repeatable) to
> allow you to use exactly the same frequency twice?
> --
> Ian
Yes, this is done. It does affect the BER somewhat.
Bill
Ian Jackson
<c74cec69-bfa6-4f49...@k39g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
"wrights...@aol.com" <wrights...@f2s.com> writes
pretty ignorant on these matters. [I suppose Google might be my friend!]
If it's the usual way of doing it, I suppose that adjusting the LNB skew
for best signal quality (presumably best BER/MER) will coincide with
minimising the opposite polarity.
--
Ian
John Legon
on.co.uk> wrote in article <dVk7vULY...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>:
If you look at transponder lists (e.g. at lyngsat.com) you'll find that
in general, the successive frequency slots alternate between vertical
and horizontal polarities.
There are exceptions, however, notably on Eurobird1, where exactly the
same frequency is used for both polarities. This tends to result in a
higher BER or lower signal quality. I suspect that the FM capture
effect must come into play here, allowing digital tuners to lock on to a
signal, but it's been rather a long time since I studied the theory...
In practice, I would say that adjusting the LNB skew for best signal
quality is equivalent to minimising the opposite polarity.
--
John Legon
Ian Jackson
early/mid 90s, when there was a growth of hobbyist interest (Squarial
and all). Eventually, a friend gave me a dish, LNB and Grundig STB, for
Astra. Until a couple of years ago, I still occasionally used to watch
the German version of Teletubbies and, if still sober, 'Dinner for One'
on New Year's Eve. But I really must gen up on this new digital
technology.
--
Ian
John Legon
on.co.uk> wrote in article <JJq+IvDgR0DMFwy$@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>:
>>
>Interesting. I haven't bothered with satellite reception since the
>early/mid 90s, when there was a growth of hobbyist interest (Squarial
>and all). Eventually, a friend gave me a dish, LNB and Grundig STB, for
>Astra. Until a couple of years ago, I still occasionally used to watch
>the German version of Teletubbies and, if still sober, 'Dinner for One'
>on New Year's Eve. But I really must gen up on this new digital
>technology.
Don't just gen up on it, get an FTA box with multi-satellite support and
preferably also with HD (for the 3D demos). My regular viewing includes
the classic Get Smart which is now being shown on Arte with an average
bit-rate of around 6500 Kb/s - and that's just the SD version ! Who can
resist Neunundneunzig ?
--
John L
Jim
After entering the dish dimensions, your calculator
predicts a negative elevation greater than 1 degree.
Fairly accurate, I would say. Well done! It's a pity
the instructions for the kit don't mention that. It
must have caught out a lot of users. Maybe the kit is
supplied with different dishes depending on the sales
outlet.
Java Jive
>
> Java Jive wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 13:27:42 +0100, Jim <j...@any.net> wrote:
> >
> > You probably have an offset dish. The correct angles for setting up
> > these are explained on my site, and the calculator there can be
> > programmed to allow for the offset by choosing the right options.
>
> After entering the dish dimensions, your calculator
> predicts a negative elevation greater than 1 degree.
> Fairly accurate, I would say. Well done!
Thanks, that's reassuring.
A while back, we were having a debate here, or perhaps it would be
more accurate to say I was having a debate with myself, because almost
no one responded with any actual definite views, as what was the best
formula to use for calculating the offset of dishes whose offset is
unknown, the problem with the current one on the site being that it is
no good for mini-dishes which are wider than tall.
However, it does have the advantage of being mentioned on a few other
sites, whereas the alternative I derived was an original piece of work
of my own, and disagreed with the current formula by about 2.5
degrees.
Therefore, only accurate measurement can resolve which is best. As I
can't easily get to my current dish because it's above my neighbour's
land where she parks her car, I haven't yet had an opportunity to
measure mine, and as also no one in the group could/would help by
measuring some dishes of known offset, I had to let it rest.
> It's a pity
> the instructions for the kit don't mention that. It
> must have caught out a lot of users. Maybe the kit is
> supplied with different dishes depending on the sales
> outlet.
Probably they get the cheapest going at the time, and if some are
cheap because the scale is inaccurately or wrongly stamped, so be it!
There seems to be an increasing number of dishes around which have no
scale at all, which is probably an improvement because then, although
you have a problem to solve, at least you are not being actually
misled!
That's how it is now. Before the recent republishing of the site, I
was trying to make sense of the instructions for a Jaeger SMR-SMO-99G
rotor with a view to adding it to the rotors list, but I had to give
up, because they were utterly nonsensical!
John Legon
"Jim" <j...@any.net> wrote:
> >> Elevation is trickier, as the angle advised on the
> >> site and in the supplied leaflet (20.8 degrees) is
> >> much greater than what I needed in practice. My dish
> >> actually gets best signal pointing slightly below
> >> vertical (i.e. towards the ground), though I'm a lot
> >> further north than you. A few other users had a
> >> problem getting a signal, so this may be a common
> >> issue. If you can't get a signal, drop the dish a bit
> >> lower.
> >
> > You probably have an offset dish. The correct angles for setting up
> > these are explained on my site, and the calculator there can be
> > programmed to allow for the offset by choosing the right options.
>
> After entering the dish dimensions, your calculator
> predicts a negative elevation greater than 1 degree.
> Fairly accurate, I would say. Well done! It's a pity
> the instructions for the kit don't mention that. It
> must have caught out a lot of users.
The instructions do mention, though, that the elevation should be set using
the scale marked on the side of the dish mounting bracket (scale 'A').
Although the indicated elevation - for the satellite, not the dish-axis :) -
probably won't be exactly the 20.8 degrees given in the leaflet, it
certainly won't be less than -1.
Terry Casey
> If you get stuck, go to www.FixMyAerial.com and you'll find there's an
> Installer who could help just up the road from you.
>
Strange there are no entries for Rotherham ...
... or much at all anywhere in Yorkshire ...!
I spent a long weekend in Scarborough. After crossing the Humber Bridge,
we went through Beverley. While I was waiting for traffic lights in the
town centre to change, I glanced up at the rooftops ...
... and thought "Bill obviously doesn't work this far east ...!"
Three closely mounted contract aerials on a thin mast seemed to be the
norm and, as it turned out, the same rule seems to apply in Scarborough
and the surrounding area, though a couple managed four!
There were only two on the mast at our hotel, though the bottom one did
rather resemble an upper quadrant railway signal arm*, and both folded
dipoles were mounted parallel to the boom ...
Reception was diabolical - but I wasn't that bothered as the only thing
I was interested in was the weather forecast in the morning. The way
that reception changed if I was in close proximity to the TV suggested
that the aerial cable wasn't actually connected to anything - but I
disproved that by finding that Sky News was reaching it somehow!
I was hoping to get a picture for Bill's gallery, complete with somewhat
rusted satellite dish, but my camera packed up.
* The hotel is high enough up and across town in the North Bay area that
this angle was NOT needed to point to Olivers Mount!
--
Terry