BBC iPlayer 4K

[Michael Chare]

How do you ensure that you are watching a BBC iPlayer broadcast in 4K -
where available?

My 4K Samsung TV is not shown on the BBC's list of supported 4K TVs. To
whom in the BBC can I complain?


--
Michael Chare

[Bill Wright]

BBC Viewers' and Listeners' Complaints Dept.,
First Dustbin on the Left,
Rear of Broadcasting House,
Portland Pl,
Marylebone,
London W1A 1AA

Bill

[Max Demian]

Might work. The posties have got to do something with the letter, and
they are more likely to deliver it properly to the BBC.

--
Max Demian

[Unknown]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/

- Mike

[Robin]

On 18/07/2018 23:45, Michael Chare wrote:

Is your complaint because your TV is technically compatible but not
shown on the BBC's list? Or because the BBC streamed using technology
which your (like many other) model of "4K" TV doesn't support?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

[Michael Chare]

On 19/07/2018 13:04, Robin wrote:
> On 18/07/2018 23:45, Michael Chare wrote:
>> How do you ensure that you are watching a BBC iPlayer broadcast in 4K
>> - where available?
>>
>> My 4K Samsung TV is not shown on the BBC's list of supported 4K TVs.
>> To whom in the BBC can I complain?
>>
>>
> Is your complaint because your TV is technically compatible but not
> shown on the BBC's list? Or because the BBC streamed using technology
> which your (like many other) model of "4K" TV doesn't support?
>

I don't know because so far I have failed to find a way of starting a 4K
iPlayer stream. Before the Wimbledon final they mentioned that it was
available in 4K. I have since learned that the World Cup football 4K
stream was only available to the first applicants, maybe the tennis was
the same.

--
Michael Chare

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <pioftr$r5v$1...@dont-email.me>, Michael Chare

Do you know it is compliant with the methods the BBC are using? If not, you
may first need to ask your retailer or Samsung about this.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

[Robin]

You could start by checking if your TV supports DVB-DASH. AIUI Samsung
2016 and earlier models don't.

[Andrew]

On 19/07/2018 13:46, Michael Chare wrote:

Unless you have a massive TV, will you see any difference ?.

Does it reproduce the grunting and squealing better then HD ?.

Does it show the way the grass on centre and #1 court deteriorated
so much this year (and then they let wheelchairs loose on them !) ?

Can you see zits on anyone in the royal box ?.

[Brian Gaff]

There was a bloke from Wimbledon on Wimbledon FM before it shut for another
year complaining about the damage the turf had suffered this year and how
long it might take to recover. Obviously the weather was the problem as we
all know usually it rains for some of the days, but not this year!
Besides on the court with the roof one supposes that now it has to be
watered more. I'd have expected under surface watering at such a prestigious
venue so the grass itself was not wet and slippery, but from what folk tell
me it looks like its goon brown and bald!
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Andrew" <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:piq701$s8a$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

[Norman Wells]

I don't think they do. The highest wheelchair tennis gets is, I think,
Court 3. But there's no sign of them after they've gone anyway.

> Can you see zits on anyone in the royal box ?.

Why? Do you want to?

How strange.

[johnt]

"Michael Chare" <mUNDERS...@chareDO.Torg.uk> wrote in message
news:pioftr$r5v$1...@dont-email.me...

A full list of compatible TVs is here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/live-uhd

If your TV isn't in the list, it isn't compatible!

--
JohnT

[Paul Ratcliffe]

On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 15:25:02 +0100, Andrew
<Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote:

> Does it reproduce the grunting and squealing better then HD ?.

I don't see how audio is affected by 4K vs. 2K., so obviously not.

> Does it show the way the grass on centre and #1 court deteriorated
> so much this year

It does every year. It was no worse this year than other years.

> (and then they let wheelchairs loose on them !) ?

Not on Centre and No. 1 they didn't. This was the first year they've
been on No. 3. In the past it's been some of 14-17.
Anyway, given the weather, the surface is probably fairly hard, even
though they water it.

> Can you see zits on anyone in the royal box ?.

A jacket/tie and no zits is the rule. Don't you know anything?

[Geoff Pearson]

In article <5719fb3...@audiomisc.co.uk>, no...@audiomisc.co.uk
says...

>
> In article <pioftr$r5v$1...@dont-email.me>, Michael Chare
> <mUNDERS...@chareDO.Torg.uk> wrote:
> > How do you ensure that you are watching a BBC iPlayer broadcast in 4K -
> > where available?
>
> > My 4K Samsung TV is not shown on the BBC's list of supported 4K TVs. To
> > whom in the BBC can I complain?
>
> Do you know it is compliant with the methods the BBC are using? If not, you
> may first need to ask your retailer or Samsung about this.
>
> Jim

I don't watch tennis but turned on my Panasonic (40EX700B on the list)
to look at iPlayer and it immediately offered me Wimbledon in UHD. I
didn't have to search. I watched for a few minutes fascinated by the
detail of ball boys hair and wrinkles on most people. Then I noticed
how boring tennis is and turned off.

I have watched 4k on Netflix but realise that my attention is gained by
the quality of the programme not by that of the picture.

Geoff

[Andrew]

On 19/07/2018 15:31, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Obviously the weather was the problem as we
> all know usually it rains for some of the days, but not this year!

Do they water during the contest ?. Every time it rains all the
courts are covered.

[Andrew]

On 19/07/2018 16:08, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
> It does every year. It was no worse this year than other years.

Nope. Definately much worse this year.

[Michael Chare]

On 19/07/2018 17:02, Geoff Pearson wrote:
> In article <5719fb3...@audiomisc.co.uk>, no...@audiomisc.co.uk
> says...
>>
>> In article <pioftr$r5v$1...@dont-email.me>, Michael Chare
>> <mUNDERS...@chareDO.Torg.uk> wrote:
>>> How do you ensure that you are watching a BBC iPlayer broadcast in 4K -
>>> where available?
>>
>>> My 4K Samsung TV is not shown on the BBC's list of supported 4K TVs. To
>>> whom in the BBC can I complain?
>>
>> Do you know it is compliant with the methods the BBC are using? If not, you
>> may first need to ask your retailer or Samsung about this.
>>
>> Jim
>
> I don't watch tennis but turned on my Panasonic (40EX700B on the list)
> to look at iPlayer and it immediately offered me Wimbledon in UHD. I
> didn't have to search.

That is what I would have liked. Given that I have a 4K TV which I could
reasonably expect to work the BBC should say 'sorry we use technology
xyz which your TV does not support'.


> I have watched 4k on Netflix but realise that my attention is gained bywhich

> the quality of the programme not by that of the picture.
>

That is the reason why I don't watch football. People are turning away
from the BBC and moving to streaming services such as Netflix.


--
Michael Chare

[Robin]

On 19/07/2018 20:14, Michael Chare wrote:

> That is what I would have liked. Given that I have a 4K TV which I could
> reasonably expect to work the BBC should say 'sorry we use technology
> xyz which your TV does not support'.
>

AIUI the BBC have used what many expected would be used for UHD
streaming but Samsung do not support it in their 2016 models (even with
latest firmware). I can see you have cause for complaint if someone
told you before you bought it that your set would work with what BBC had
planned. But who did so? Eg did you ask Samsung? the seller? the BBC?

[Michael Chare]

The BBC presumably knew what technology they were going to use and that
some new 4K TVs would not work. They should have given significant
publicity to this issue. Why are they using a different technology from
Netflix?

--
Michael Chare

[Mark Carver]

On 19/07/2018 23:18, Michael Chare wrote:

> The BBC presumably knew what technology they were going to use and that
> some new 4K TVs would not work.  They should have given significant
> publicity to this issue.  Why are they using a different technology from
> Netflix?

Nothing on Netflix is live, it's all multi-pass pre-recoded streaming.
The BBC UHD streams are real time, and run with a latancy of 85-90
seconds. I don't know much about the mechanics of 'on the fly' encoding
and streaming, but I suspect that's a factor ? There's a fair bit of
reading material in the BBC R&d blogs etc
--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

[Mark Carver]

Not as bad as the last proper summer (1976)

<https://www.gettyimages.fr/detail/photo-d'actualit%C3%A9/sweden-bjorn-borg-in-action-serve-vs-romania-ilie-photo-dactualit%C3%A9/466933781#/tennis-wimbledon-sweden-bjorn-borg-in-action-serve-vs-romania-ilie-picture-id466933781>

[Michael Chare]

On 20/07/2018 09:28, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 19/07/2018 23:18, Michael Chare wrote:
>
>> The BBC presumably knew what technology they were going to use and
>> that some new 4K TVs would not work.  They should have given
>> significant publicity to this issue.  Why are they using a different
>> technology from Netflix?
>
> Nothing on Netflix is live, it's all multi-pass pre-recoded streaming.
> The BBC UHD streams are real time, and run with a latancy of 85-90
> seconds. I don't know much about the mechanics of 'on the fly' encoding
> and streaming, but I suspect that's a factor ? There's a fair bit of
> reading material in the BBC R&d blogs etc

AIUI Netflix is much more compressed you don't need as much bandwidth
coming in for Netflix as the iPlayer say you need. When you buy a 4K TV
it is not at all obvious as to whether it will work with the iPlayer 4k
streams.

--
Michael Chare

[Mark Carver]

On 20/07/2018 13:58, Michael Chare wrote:

> AIUI Netflix is much more compressed you don't need as much bandwidth
> coming in for Netflix as the iPlayer say you need.  When you buy a 4K TV
> it is not at all obvious as to whether it will work with the iPlayer 4k
> streams.

That's true, the iplayer UHD streams were running at 36 Mb/s on my telly
(16.5 Gigs per hour !)

Netflix UHD runs at about 7 Mb/s.

[Robin]

On 20/07/2018 15:09, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 20/07/2018 13:58, Michael Chare wrote:
>
>> AIUI Netflix is much more compressed you don't need as much bandwidth
>> coming in for Netflix as the iPlayer say you need.  When you buy a 4K
>> TV it is not at all obvious as to whether it will work with the
>> iPlayer 4k streams.
>
> That's true, the iplayer UHD streams were running at 36 Mb/s on my telly
> (16.5 Gigs per hour !)
>
> Netflix UHD runs at about 7 Mb/s.
>
>

I only know one person with a Netflix UHD package but she reckons their
website is right when it says 2160p needs 25 Mb/s. If that's not
available it falls back automatically to lower resolutions.

[Mark Carver]

On 20/07/2018 15:42, Robin wrote:
> On 20/07/2018 15:09, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 20/07/2018 13:58, Michael Chare wrote:
>>
>>> AIUI Netflix is much more compressed you don't need as much bandwidth
>>> coming in for Netflix as the iPlayer say you need.  When you buy a 4K
>>> TV it is not at all obvious as to whether it will work with the
>>> iPlayer 4k streams.
>>
>> That's true, the iplayer UHD streams were running at 36 Mb/s on my
>> telly (16.5 Gigs per hour !)
>>
>> Netflix UHD runs at about 7 Mb/s.

> I only know one person with a Netflix UHD package but she reckons their
> website is right when it says 2160p needs 25 Mb/s.

I've made measurements. I get 2160p res at around 7 Mb/s (averaged over
an hour), it might be there are bursts above that value through, hence
the website disclaimer of 25 Mb/s being required.

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <pir2mu$baq$1...@dont-email.me>, Michael Chare

<mUNDERS...@chareDO.Torg.uk> wrote:
> The BBC presumably knew what technology they were going to use and that
> some new 4K TVs would not work. They should have given significant
> publicity to this issue. Why are they using a different technology from
> Netflix?

Ask Netfix why they're using a different "technology" to the BBC.

If you buy a closed commercial box like a 'net TV' then its down to you to
check with the retailer/maker what it does, or to note what they promise.
Your contract is with the retailer, not the BBC.

[Jeff Layman]

When iPlayer ran its UHD test a few months back (The Living Planet?) I
viewed that on my 4k Panny (the model is not on the Beeb list) and it
seemed ok even though I only get 10 Mb/s max download. A couple of weeks
ago I tried the World Cup and that would run for a few seconds, then
stutter, then run again, etc. Also, the picture seemed a lot darker than
the earlier test (and indeed darker than an HD or SD OTA transmission).

So was I viewing the test in UHD or not? Were the Beeb using exactly the
same system for the test and for the World Cup / Wimbledon or had it
changed? Why was the recent UHD picture darker?

--

Jeff

[the dog from that film you saw]

On 19/07/2018 23:18, Michael Chare wrote:

> The BBC presumably knew what technology they were going to use and that
> some new 4K TVs would not work.  They should have given significant
> publicity to this issue.  Why are they using a different technology from
> Netflix?
>

netflix is pre encoded, it's not live.
live broadcasts cant use the same method - they use HLG.

[Andy Burns]

Jeff Layman wrote:

> the picture seemed a lot darker than the earlier test (and indeed darker
> than an HD or SD OTA transmission).

Maybe your set doesn't recognise the HLG format?

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Log-Gamma>

[Robin]

Thanks for that.

[Jeff Layman]

Probably not. It's a 2015 model which was not one of those which
received a firmware update announced late last year (for 2016 onwards).

<https://www.avforums.com/threads/calling-all-2015-2018-panasonic-users-iplayer-live-uhd-hlg-trial.2171668/>

--

Jeff

[Vir Campestris]

On 19/07/2018 20:14, Michael Chare wrote:

> That is what I would have liked. Given that I have a 4K TV which I could
> reasonably expect to work the BBC should say 'sorry we use technology
> xyz which your TV does not support'.

On that list of supported devices is "Roku Streaming Stick+".

https://www.roku.com/en-gb/products/streaming-stick-plus

Plug one into your TV, and Robert is your mother's brother.

Andy

[Andy Burns]

Vir Campestris wrote:

> https://www.roku.com/en-gb/products/streaming-stick-plus

Huh! I'd always assumed Roku was pronounced RockYou but their video
pronounces it RowQueue

[Michael Chare]

That is an interesting idea thank you. I see that I would have to be
careful to buy the plus model!

--
Michael Chare

[tim...]

"Andy Burns" <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
news:frf0hm...@mid.individual.net...

I always thought it was RockOoooo

tim


>

[Mark Carver]

On 20/07/2018 17:06, Jeff Layman wrote:
Also, the picture seemed a lot darker than
> the earlier test (and indeed darker than an HD or SD OTA transmission).
>
> So was I viewing the test in UHD or not? Were the Beeb using exactly the
> same system for the test and for the World Cup / Wimbledon or had it
> changed? Why was the recent UHD picture darker?

Read on (I do have a Beeb 'approved' telly, but my picture was dim too)

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2018-07-hdr-uhd-television-picture-quality-settings-guide>

[Jeff Layman]

On 21/07/18 19:25, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 20/07/2018 17:06, Jeff Layman wrote:
> Also, the picture seemed a lot darker than
>> the earlier test (and indeed darker than an HD or SD OTA transmission).
>>
>> So was I viewing the test in UHD or not? Were the Beeb using exactly the
>> same system for the test and for the World Cup / Wimbledon or had it
>> changed? Why was the recent UHD picture darker?
>
> Read on (I do have a Beeb 'approved' telly, but my picture was dim too)
>
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2018-07-hdr-uhd-television-picture-quality-settings-guide>

What would we do without you?!

Well, it is just getting too complicated. Not only do we have the usual
brightness, contrast, colour, tint, etc to take into account; we now
have HDR to consider. I had a look at my Panny's setup, and see there is
an adjustable "backlight" setting. But there is also a "viewing mode"-
dynamic, normal,cinema, true cinema, custom. This seems to change the
levels of several parameters depending on which viewing mode is chosen.
That seems a bit odd to me; you spend ages setting the brightness,
contrast, etc up, then change the viewing mode and you find your other
settings have changed!

--

Jeff

[Terry Casey]

In article <EsednfbwuOl-
w83GnZ2dnU...@brightview.co.uk>, max_d...@bigfoot.com
says...
>
> On 19/07/2018 04:19, Bill Wright wrote:

> > On 18/07/2018 23:45, Michael Chare wrote:
> >>
> >> My 4K Samsung TV is not shown on the BBC's list of supported 4K TVs.
> >> To whom in the BBC can I complain?
>

> > BBC Viewers' and Listeners' Complaints Dept.,
> > First Dustbin on the Left,
> > Rear of Broadcasting House,
> > Portland Pl,
> > Marylebone,
> > London W1A 1AA
>
> Might work. The posties have got to do something with the letter, and
> they are more likely to deliver it properly to the BBC.

On the other hand, it might not! When I first started working
for a cable company on the Isle of Dogs we had no end of
trouble with London Electrity, as it then was.

A mass of phone calls followed an outage and we would go out
straight away to the cabinet feeding the area only to find
that LE had sent someone out to remove their main fuse for non
payment of the bill.

Crumpled up in front of or inside the cabinet we would find
the bill which the postie had attempted to deliver to the
cabinet!

The bill would be addressed something like:

CATV cabinet
o/s 34 Somewhere Street
Poplar
London E14

--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Terry Casey]

In article <piqloj$1o99$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andrew97d-
ju...@mybtinternet.com says...

I definitely saw scenes of them being water which explained
how the remained so green.

Presumably they didn't do it in 1967 when Wimbledon was the
first public colour TV transmission in advance of the actual
launch.

We had a demo set in our shop and virtually everyone who saw
it said it was no better than black and white - until the
camera swung round to show the spectators between volleys,
many dressed in dressed in highly coloured outfits - those
shots brought out lots of 'Oohs' and 'Ahs'

[Bill Wright]

On 22/07/2018 18:57, Terry Casey wrote:

> On the other hand, it might not! When I first started working
> for a cable company on the Isle of Dogs we had no end of
> trouble with London Electrity, as it then was.
>
> A mass of phone calls followed an outage and we would go out
> straight away to the cabinet feeding the area only to find
> that LE had sent someone out to remove their main fuse for non
> payment of the bill.
>
> Crumpled up in front of or inside the cabinet we would find
> the bill which the postie had attempted to deliver to the
> cabinet!
>
> The bill would be addressed something like:
>
> CATV cabinet
> o/s 34 Somewhere Street
> Poplar
> London E14
>

The cabinet should have been on an unmetered supply paid by standing
order. Maybe it was...

Bill

[Paul Ratcliffe]

On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 19:37:04 +0100, Andrew
<Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote:

> Do they water during the contest ?. Every time it rains all the
> courts are covered.

They water in the evening/night after play has finished. By the time
it starts the next day, it has soaked in/dried up.
Water on the grass during the day makes the grass slippery, which is
obviously dangerous, and why they are covered when it rains.

[Mark Carver]

On 22/07/2018 18:57, Terry Casey wrote:

>

> Crumpled up in front of or inside the cabinet we would find
> the bill which the postie had attempted to deliver to the
> cabinet!
>
> The bill would be addressed something like:
>
> CATV cabinet
> o/s 34 Somewhere Street
> Poplar
> London E14

There's a similar story I heard once regarding the BBC's Fareham AM Tx site

[Terry Casey]

In article <pj2o86$jnb$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
wrights...@f2s.com says...

Many of them were but but not all of them. What the diference
was, I never found out why.

Even unmetered feeds are not immune - as I think I posted here
recently, the Stock Exchange cable network was all unmetered
feeds but that didn't stop the housekeepers in thalarger
office blocks spotting the neon on the switched spur at night
and turning it off!

We had to get them all changed to ubnswitched spurs to stop it
happening.