Reliable PVR?

[T i m]

Hi all,

Not sure this is the right place to ask but I've been tasked with
helping some technophobe inlaws into the PVR world.

Now, I understand Humax gear is known to be fairly user friendly but
I'm not sure they are as reliable as I want to risk as a
recommendation (based on the one the Mrs had before I got her a
Topfield TF5800 like mine).

So, can anyone offer any personal recommendation for some kit that is
'not particularly difficult to use' (most people can get use to
anything in time), not overly expensive (comparatively) but is likely
to at least last a few years without breaking down please?

It doesn't really matter how big (small) the HDD is or if it has
catchup (although that would be nice) or even HD, as long as it works
and is reliable.

I would / might look for another second hand Toppy but I think HDMI
would be more convenient.

Cheers, T i m

[Chris Green]

Well our two Humax PVRs seem to be lasting pretty well. The older one
is now over seven years old and still works as well as it ever did.
It's been moved around a bit too, currently on a boat in London.

--
Chris Green
·

[T i m]

Thanks for the feedback Chris.

It's just that the Mrs Humax started getting flaky and finally became
un useable just inside the two years warranty. They swapped it out
efficiently enough but the replacement started failing pretty quickly
afterwards (and as I mentioned, was replaced with a much older Toppy
(that I re-capped) that is still going strong (as is mine).

When the Humax DTR-T2000 [1] came up after some Googling I sought out
some reviews and saw plenty of the same sort of thing we experiences
with units failing just outside warranty and for no fixable reason?

They could represent the typical failure percentage of any equipment
of course.

Cheers, T i m

[1] Can anyone here vouch for the Humax DTR-T2000 specifically OOI
please?

[Davey]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:18:29 +0000

Not a DTR, but I have a refurbished HDR Fox T2, which is now about 4
years old, and it has been fine. I added the CF Firmware, which made it
a lot more friendly.
But friends bought a modern Humax, and had to return it. The
replacement has been fine.

Who knows?

--
Davey.

[Chris Green]

Looking at our Humaxen I see that we actually have three:-

1 x Black Twin Freeview tuner 320GB PVR (Grade A) - bought in December 2009

1 x Black Twin tuner Freeview PVR with HDMI & 500GB Hard Drive - bought in April 2010

1 x HDR-2000T 1TB WD bought in September 2015

These were all bought from humaxdirect.co.uk and I think they were all
'graded'. The first is definitely still working fine, the second I
believe is still OK but I'm not quite sure what part of the family
that has got to now. The HDR-2000T 1TB is the one we currently use at
home, nothing wrong with it yet.

--
Chris Green
·

[Jeff Layman]

Have a look at Panasonic. For example the DMRHWT150EB.

I don't think that any modern PVR is user-friendly for technophobes, as
they seem to have umpteen functions that probably won't ever be used and
serve only to complicate things. And Panasonic isn't exactly cheap, but
in terms of reliability I've always been very impressed with their stuff.

You can always download a manual and estimate how easy - or not - the
PVR will be to use.

--

Jeff

[tim...]

"Jeff Layman" <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:o6nfco$3vf$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 30/01/17 11:45, T i m wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Not sure this is the right place to ask but I've been tasked with
>> helping some technophobe inlaws into the PVR world.
>>
>> Now, I understand Humax gear is known to be fairly user friendly but
>> I'm not sure they are as reliable as I want to risk as a
>> recommendation (based on the one the Mrs had before I got her a
>> Topfield TF5800 like mine).
>>
>> So, can anyone offer any personal recommendation for some kit that is
>> 'not particularly difficult to use' (most people can get use to
>> anything in time), not overly expensive (comparatively) but is likely
>> to at least last a few years without breaking down please?
>>
>> It doesn't really matter how big (small) the HDD is or if it has
>> catchup (although that would be nice) or even HD, as long as it works
>> and is reliable.
>>
>> I would / might look for another second hand Toppy but I think HDMI
>> would be more convenient.
>>
>> Cheers, T i m
>
> Have a look at Panasonic. For example the DMRHWT150EB.
>
> I don't think that any modern PVR is user-friendly for technophobes, as
> they seem to have umpteen functions that probably won't ever be used and
> serve only to complicate things. And Panasonic isn't exactly cheap,

not helped be them all insisting on having a wifi connection so that they
can be "smart"

which was fine when they were the only "smart" box in your house, but now
that uses have an alternative 7 smart devices to use they really ought to be
selling the matched dumb version of all their range

tim

[Jeff Layman]

On 30/01/17 14:36, Martin wrote:

> Real Sound has a few negative comments.

Did you mean Richer Sounds?

--

Jeff

[Pete Forman]

I was a happy user of a Humax 9200T for many years. However it does not
cope with the current number of channels, even though I get only the 6
basic muxes. In addition it will not be long before we switch to DVB-T2
only which will stop old boxes from receiving even SD.

http://www.a516digital.com/2016/03/freeview-changes-planned-from-end-of.html

When I looked at replacing the Humax the HDR-FOX T2 with custom firmware
would have been my choice had it not been discontinued a year or two
before my purchase. Reviews of the subsequent Humax products did not
inpire me and I jumped ship to a Panasonic DMRHWT130EB. That has been
reliable with only a couple of downsides. Navigating through the EPG is
painful as you can only step by 30 minutes or 24 hours at a time. And
there is no search! On the upside there is remote access to recording
though the app to do so is primitive.

--
Pete Forman
https://payg-petef.rhcloud.com

[T i m]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:02:37 +0100, Martin wrote:

> I'd buy the current model of Humax PVR again.

Thanks for that Martin.

I guess like anything you can get 'lemons' so if I suggest they go for a
Humax I also hope they don't get the lemon (as we did).

The thing is, after many many more years than we had the Humax, the Toppy
started to become unstable but according to those who knew about such
things it was deemed 'very likely' to be simply down to a bad PSU and
specifically, a predictable subset of the caps. I changed the suggested
caps and it was good as gold again (and I have since done our other two
5800's).

Now, maybe that was only available for the Toppy because I believe it was
considered an 'enthusiasts PVR', with the Taps etc?

With our Humax (I can't remember the exact model .., 1500 (we still have
it a home somewhere)), I couldn't find anything that gave any hint / hope
of a DIY fix (and I tried all of the things that others suggested worked
for them), or any likely cause of the issue in the first place? There
were however plenty of people suffering the exact same issue at the time.

Were we just unlucky to be sent a replacement that also suffered the
exact same problems or was it in fact likely we were just sent someone
else's lemon?

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

I just had a quick look at the reviews on Richer Sounds site and the only
thing that seems to jump out is the slow EPG?

I setup an elderly neighbours TalkTalk supplied YouView box recently and
after the Topfield the general feel of the UI was that it was very
sluggish. I can flick about most of the EPG / general menus on the Toppy
nearly instantly with any hesitation that does come in now and again
feeling like 'ages' (when at worst is only maybe ~5 seconds).

The thing is, one gets used to a certain 'way' and I can be the worst
salesman when stuff (that could be good otherwise) doesn't perform as
well or as easily as what I consider to be 'the norm'.

I guess what I am saying is if I was to spend someone else's money I'd
like first to check that it passes my muster, either that on generally be
considered 'good' by most who have one and who have tried / use something
else.

I had a little taste of that when I recommended the Mrs use a Topfield
over her failing Humax (as she isn't the most patient or tolerant of such
technology when it isn't intuitive or works the way she expects or
knows). Luckily her 'but why can't I do ...' or 'how do I' type
mutterings / questions only lasted a couple of days and I've not really
heard a negative word since. ;-(

I think she was happy to forego a couple of bells and whistles as long as
the thing was reliable. ;-)

I wonder if you could find 100 'ordinary users' and got them to help
design the UI on such things, how much different they might be from some
of the offerings available today?

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:06:42 +0100, Martin wrote:

<snip>
>
> Our first Humax is still going strong after 7 years, our second one
> lasted almost exactly 4 years. We've had the current one since August
> last year, two of the buttons on the controller stopped working after a
> few months.

Hmmm, I wonder if this is an example of 'they don't make them like they
used to'?

And I think we all know that is often the case with all this 'built in
obsolescence' and 'price engineering'.

And 'we' (maybe not us here <g>) are blamed for this as many do buy on
price alone, not being interested in the thought that paying a bit more
*might* mean it could last a bit longer, assuming they were going to keep
it that long in the first place? ;-(

Because I am 'recommending' something to my inlaws ... and whilst I know
they won't actually hold a lemon unit against me, I really don't want to
be in that position and because I cant get them a new Topfield and don't
have a particularly good experience with Humax it doesn't make my job any
easier.

Then you can get some equipment that is made well and lasts for ever but
suffers from say a very slow EPG or some minor thing that becomes a big
issue in regular use.

Sometimes however you just buy an IBM ... because no one has been sacked
for buying IBM ... (so a Humax in this case)?

Cheers, T i m

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:44:33 +0000, Davey wrote:

<snip>

>>
>> [1] Can anyone here vouch for the Humax DTR-T2000 specifically OOI
>> please?
>
> Not a DTR, but I have a refurbished HDR Fox T2, which is now about 4
> years old, and it has been fine. I added the CF Firmware, which made it
> a lot more friendly.
> But friends bought a modern Humax, and had to return it. The replacement
> has been fine.
>
> Who knows?

And that's the thing isn't it ... and why should it be such a lottery in
this day and age?

I have a cheapo Binatone alarm clock radio that must be 30+ years old and
still going strong (ok, it doesn't contain a hard drive but how often is
the hard drive the issue)?

Whilst I don't think I'm a 'typical' John Lewis customer I have bought
electronic equipment from them (sometimes paying a bit more) simply
because I get a 2/3 year warranty? What sort of faith do I have in modern
electronics when the warranty becomes such an important issue? ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:54:41 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:44:21 +0000, Chris Green <c...@isbd.net> wrote:
>
<snip>

>>>
>>> They could represent the typical failure percentage of any equipment
>>> of course.
>>>
>>Looking at our Humaxen I see that we actually have three:-
>>
>>1 x Black Twin Freeview tuner 320GB PVR (Grade A) - bought in December
>>2009
>>
>>1 x Black Twin tuner Freeview PVR with HDMI & 500GB Hard Drive - bought
>>in April 2010
>>
>>1 x HDR-2000T 1TB WD bought in September 2015
>>
>>These were all bought from humaxdirect.co.uk and I think they were all
>>'graded'. The first is definitely still working fine, the second I
>>believe is still OK but I'm not quite sure what part of the family that
>>has got to now. The HDR-2000T 1TB is the one we currently use at home,
>>nothing wrong with it yet.
>

> We have a Humax PVR 9200T, bought from Humax in 2009 as
> reconditioned/refurbished or whatever the phrase was (might even have
> been 'graded' as you say) in anticipation of the digital switchover in
> the West Country at that time. Been in use for several hours daily since
> then.

Thanks for the feedback Chrises. I wonder if these 'Factory
Reconditioned' units may have had the little tweaks not normally offered
to the std production run machines? <shrug> The one we got in replacement
to our 23 month old unit wasn't.

> No problems that a simple disc reformat didn't solve.

Yup, been there and done that on the Humax but I can't remember *ever*
doing it on the Topfields. However, the outcome may be dependant on how
the system works ... if the boot function is typially run from the HDD
etc?

I looked at an old Freeview STB (possibly a Panasonic, with DVD and VHS
recording available) for some friends (who had already ordered a
replacement from JL) and I think the firmware was on the HDD drive and it
could only be put there by the factory? I must have done something to it
in my investigations as it seemed to start working again and I understand
is still working nearly a year later. ;--)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 21:01:37 +0000, Pete Forman wrote:

<snip>

> I was a happy user of a Humax 9200T for many years. However it does not
> cope with the current number of channels, even though I get only the 6
> basic muxes. In addition it will not be long before we switch to DVB-T2
> only which will stop old boxes from receiving even SD.
>
> http://www.a516digital.com/2016/03/freeview-changes-planned-from-end-
of.html

Oh. ;-(

>
> When I looked at replacing the Humax the HDR-FOX T2 with custom firmware
> would have been my choice had it not been discontinued a year or two
> before my purchase.

I have seen mention of that model quite a bit so was it one of those
'good' units that no one can understand why they stopped production on? A
bit like the Toppy in its day?

> Reviews of the subsequent Humax products did not
> inpire me and I jumped ship to a Panasonic DMRHWT130EB. That has been
> reliable with only a couple of downsides. Navigating through the EPG is
> painful as you can only step by 30 minutes or 24 hours at a time.

So I read on a review somewhere. One saving grace here might be that
outside the TV, they don't have anything to compare it to so ignorance
could be bliss. ;-)

> And
> there is no search!

Ok. I don't have that atm (Topfield 5800) but do have such on my NowTV
box and have used it a few times and can see how it could be useful.

> On the upside there is remote access to recording
> though the app to do so is primitive.

My sister does have an iPad but I don't think she uses it that often (or
for much). Is that on the functional remote client list do you know
please Pete?

Cheers, T i m

[Roderick Stewart]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:35:58 +0000, Jeff Layman
<jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Have a look at Panasonic. For example the DMRHWT150EB.
>
>I don't think that any modern PVR is user-friendly for technophobes, as
>they seem to have umpteen functions that probably won't ever be used and
>serve only to complicate things. And Panasonic isn't exactly cheap, but
>in terms of reliability I've always been very impressed with their stuff.

One of my favourite features of Panasonic PVRs is the ability to edit
out the adverts so you can watch a programme uninterrupted, and if you
can't be bothered to do that there's a pair of buttons to skip forward
60 seconds or back 10 seconds during playback.

Rod.

[T i m]

I think I had that feature on an old analogue Lite-On DVD / HDD PVR and I
agree it was quite handy for those things you wanted to keep.

I'll have to ask them what make their existing kit (TV / DVD player) are
as I have a funny feeling at least one of them (the TV) is Panasonic so
I'm thinking if the one remote might cover two devices?

FWIW I really only ever watch the (Freeview / Toshiba) TV though the Toppy
so only use the Tosh remote to turn the TV on and off.

Cheers, T i m

[Pete Forman]

T i m <ete...@spaced.me.uk> writes:

> On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 21:01:37 +0000, Pete Forman wrote:
>> And there is no search!
>
> Ok. I don't have that atm (Topfield 5800) but do have such on my NowTV
> box and have used it a few times and can see how it could be useful.

Having had search on my Humax I did not even consider that other PVRs
might not have it. As an immediate example of its usefulness I have only
just discovered that Dave has started series 4 of Crackanory this
evening, too late for even Dave Ja Vu. I have now primed the PVR for the
01:30 repeat but it should not be necessary to consult the web on
another device to find that out. Many programs are rebroadcast at odd
times.

>> On the upside there is remote access to recording though the app to
>> do so is primitive.
>
> My sister does have an iPad but I don't think she uses it that often
> (or for much). Is that on the functional remote client list do you
> know please Pete?

The iTunes store lists the Panasonic DIGA app. The service is also
available via the web, so she should be covered for recording. The app
gets poor reviews but I think that is for playback.

[Davey]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:55:30 +0000
Pete Forman <petef4...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Having had search on my Humax I did not even consider that other PVRs
> might not have it. As an immediate example of its usefulness I have
> only just discovered that Dave has started series 4 of Crackanory this
> evening, too late for even Dave Ja Vu. I have now primed the PVR for
> the 01:30 repeat

I had my PVR set up to record the 10:00pm edition, but:
1. I got a 0 minute recording.
2. The EPG for that slot is blank, whereas everything else is fully
populated.

I hope the repeat works.

--
Davey.

[Davey]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:19:47 +0000
Roderick Stewart <rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> One of my favourite features of Panasonic PVRs is the ability to edit
> out the adverts so you can watch a programme uninterrupted, and if you
> can't be bothered to do that there's a pair of buttons to skip forward
> 60 seconds or back 10 seconds during playback.

The HDR Fox T2 has programmable skip forward and jump back buttons,
which I have set to 30 secs and 10 secs.

--
Davey.

[Pete Forman]

The Panasonic (130 at least) also has what they call time slip to move
forward or back n minutes. However all the skips take one or two seconds
to start playing again which detracts from what they are meant to be
achieving.

On the Humax 9200T the skips were a user option and had no delay when
resuming. I used to watch rugby on catch up with the forward skip set to
15 sec and back to 7 sec. That was just right for the gap between touch
and the lineout being taken, and the setting of a scrum.

[Chris Green]

T i m <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
> I wonder if you could find 100 'ordinary users' and got them to help
> design the UI on such things, how much different they might be from some
> of the offerings available today?
>

The really major problem with all such things is slowness of response,
if nothing happens (within rather less than a second) after hitting a
key then, inevitably, one hits it again or another key.

All easy to use keyboards/keypads give near instant response to key
hits and once you lose this you've had it really.

--
Chris Green
·

[Roderick Stewart]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 00:12:09 +0000, Pete Forman
<petef4...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> One of my favourite features of Panasonic PVRs is the ability to edit
>> out the adverts so you can watch a programme uninterrupted, and if you
>> can't be bothered to do that there's a pair of buttons to skip forward
>> 60 seconds or back 10 seconds during playback.
>
>The Panasonic (130 at least) also has what they call time slip to move
>forward or back n minutes. However all the skips take one or two seconds
>to start playing again which detracts from what they are meant to be
>achieving.

A hiatus of one or two seconds is probably less disturbing than one or
two minutes of adverts. Editing out the adverts beforehand usually
gives even less of a disturbance, but if that's not enough you'll just
have to buy the DVD.

Rod.

[T i m]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:40:21 +0000, Chris Green <c...@isbd.net> wrote:

>T i m <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I wonder if you could find 100 'ordinary users' and got them to help
>> design the UI on such things, how much different they might be from some
>> of the offerings available today?
>>
>The really major problem with all such things is slowness of response,
>if nothing happens (within rather less than a second) after hitting a
>key then, inevitably, one hits it again or another key.

Yup. Same if you hit print and nothing comes out (instantly).

>
>All easy to use keyboards/keypads give near instant response to key
>hits and once you lose this you've had it really.

Agreed ... all of this is very much key to making a UI intuitive and
easy to use and I fail to understand how manufactures can allow
anything less out. I can of course ... 'sales' come up with a new
product (at a certain price), 'marketing' put it about and
'manufacturing' are left to try to actually get it built and out
there, often in unreasonable timescale's and so things like slow menus
get out. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:24:50 +0000, Roderick Stewart
<rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 00:12:09 +0000, Pete Forman
><petef4...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> One of my favourite features of Panasonic PVRs is the ability to edit
>>> out the adverts so you can watch a programme uninterrupted, and if you
>>> can't be bothered to do that there's a pair of buttons to skip forward
>>> 60 seconds or back 10 seconds during playback.
>>
>>The Panasonic (130 at least) also has what they call time slip to move
>>forward or back n minutes. However all the skips take one or two seconds
>>to start playing again which detracts from what they are meant to be
>>achieving.
>
>A hiatus of one or two seconds is probably less disturbing than one or
>two minutes of adverts.

<snip>

The thing is, I assume people make these observations because they are
familiar with an alternative solution that *doesn't* have these issues
so it can be done. I'm also assuming any manufacture that make a
product with such issues might look to see how they can improve the
situation?

I think early car dashcams had issues where when they saved a batch of
video they ended up with some missed footage. This could be paramount
of course and so they worked on a solution to ensure that didn't
happen. I would think any dashcam that didn't provide continuous video
today would be considered useless?

When we first got a telephone answering machine I spent quite a lot on
a Panasonic jobby because I *insisted* that the number of recorded
messages was displayed and gave each a date and time stamp. The number
of messages was relevant because of how much time you might need to
listen to them all (if you had just popped in and had to rush out
again) and the date and time stamp because often people wouldn't say
on their message (so if you been away the 'urgent' message could have
been there days). Now I would think everyone would consider such
things a minimum requirement?

So, sit 100 PVR users down and ask them to list / agree the top 20
'must have' features and we could end up with a box that makes most
people happy. ;-)

Who would not want a mute button on a remote ... or not want the EPG /
menu navigation to be near instant or to have it automatically change
channel to the one you have set to record away from the one you are
watching?

It's things like that that people look up in the manual because they
can't believe that is how it is and it must be user configurable? Who
on earth thought that no one would want a mute button on a remote?

Cheers, T i m

[tim...]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:eln09chjul1re6pcp...@4ax.com...

> My current Humax was a lot cheaper than the first two.

not for me

the cheapest current Freeview HD PVR seems to be around 169 (with offers
down to 149)

My SD box cost 119.

5 years since release, HD recorders really ought to have come done to that
level again

it's that blasted smart feature that's bumping up the price

tim

[AnthonyL]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:45:07 +0000, T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>Not sure this is the right place to ask but I've been tasked with
>helping some technophobe inlaws into the PVR world.
>
>Now, I understand Humax gear is known to be fairly user friendly but
>I'm not sure they are as reliable as I want to risk as a
>recommendation (based on the one the Mrs had before I got her a
>Topfield TF5800 like mine).
>
>So, can anyone offer any personal recommendation for some kit that is
>'not particularly difficult to use' (most people can get use to
>anything in time), not overly expensive (comparatively) but is likely
>to at least last a few years without breaking down please?
>
>It doesn't really matter how big (small) the HDD is or if it has
>catchup (although that would be nice) or even HD, as long as it works
>and is reliable.
>
>I would / might look for another second hand Toppy but I think HDMI
>would be more convenient.
>

The TF5810 is HDMI.

There's a 2nd hand unit being prepared as I write:

http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=270615&sid=95893af26beca74825adf2e0abbbaf16#270615

These units at around £60 are fully reconditioned, a complete set of
replacement capacitors for the suspect ones. Put MyStuff on it and
apart from the lack of HD you still won't better it.

I've purchased two such units for friends/family. The TF5800 has some
advantages in terms of memory usage and an easier to use remote but
I'm happy with my TF5810 providing I prune the number of channels down
to about 60.

--
AnthonyL

[Tim+]

T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Not sure this is the right place to ask but I've been tasked with
> helping some technophobe inlaws into the PVR world.
>
> Now, I understand Humax gear is known to be fairly user friendly but
> I'm not sure they are as reliable as I want to risk as a
> recommendation (based on the one the Mrs had before I got her a
> Topfield TF5800 like mine).
>
> So, can anyone offer any personal recommendation for some kit that is
> 'not particularly difficult to use' (most people can get use to
> anything in time), not overly expensive (comparatively) but is likely
> to at least last a few years without breaking down please?

The most reliable and easiest to use PVR was, without doubt, the Thomson
TiVo unit. I have one in my loft. ;-)

Gave many years of fantastic service but as it can only record unencrypted
SD sources, now redundant alas. They just got so much *right* in the
software and user interface. It's an enormous shame that there's been no
worthy successor.

We now use a Humax HDR Fox T2 which we've had for years and are very happy
with. On it's second hard drive but they're very easy to change,
particularly with the custom firmware. On the whole very reliable and easy
to use, just not as good as the old TiVo was alas.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[Jeff Layman]

All I can say is that the top of my list for anything I buy is
reliability. If whatever I have doesn't work, I don't care how good its
other features are - it's just a damn useless paperweight. I originally
had a Humax 9200T. That worked well for 3 years or so until the "clock
display" problem appeared. I fixed that myself following info on the
internet. But over the next couple of years the Hummy started playing up
with increasingly slow response times to the remote, and the odd missed
recording. I decided to replace it (this was late 2012), but with what?
Obviously an HD-capable PVR was needed, but did I want to risk another
Hummy, particularly as the reports of the YouView weren't very good. So
I went with the rather revolutionary Echostar HDT-610R. Although not a
bad PVR, the Hard Disk in that died after 6 months, and it went back to
John Lewis. So I returned to Humax with the YouView. Bad choice; very
limited PVR functionality (far less than the 9200T), and ultimately
unreliable. I returned it to JL after only 9 months as it stopped
working. So, hopefully third time lucky with the Panasonic DMR-HWT130.
And so far it's been ok for nearly 3 years.

Yes, the Panasonic EPG is slow to operate (although not to download, as
other PVRs *not* connected to the internet invariably are, as they
depend on an OTA EPG). And, as others have noted, there is no "search"
facility, which seems crazy in this day and age where everything is
searchable. Many other things can be a bit slow to respond to the
remote, but you get used to it. And those editing facilities are useful,
not only to remove ads but to get rid of padding and other junk at the
beginning and end of programmes. That's not particularly important with
normal 60-minute or so programmes, but it sure adds up with kids'
programmes. I have 150+ episodes of Peppa Pig recorded for the
grandchildren, and although each lasts only 5 minutes, the total
recorded time is often 8 - 10 minutes. That's 9 or 10 hours of wasted
recording time.

--

Jeff

[Roderick Stewart]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 13:15:31 +0000, Jeff Layman
<jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Yes, the Panasonic EPG is slow to operate (although not to download, as
>other PVRs *not* connected to the internet invariably are, as they
>depend on an OTA EPG). And, as others have noted, there is no "search"
>facility, which seems crazy in this day and age where everything is
>searchable. Many other things can be a bit slow to respond to the
>remote, but you get used to it.

I don't miss a search facility on the Panasonic EPG, as I use
Digiguide to plan what to record. It shows more info about more
channels all at once, and for further ahead. If I want to set a
recording on the Panasonic, I can either wait for it to appear in the
list seven days before TX time, or I can enter the details manually up
to a month ahead. I can do this while it is recording two other
programmes, which I couldn't do on the only Humax PVR I ever owned,
and I don't need to refrain from switching it off when I've finished,
as it will keep the recording process continuing, whereas the Humax
would just stop everything.

> And those editing facilities are useful,
>not only to remove ads but to get rid of padding and other junk at the
>beginning and end of programmes. That's not particularly important with
>normal 60-minute or so programmes, but it sure adds up with kids'
>programmes. I have 150+ episodes of Peppa Pig recorded for the
>grandchildren, and although each lasts only 5 minutes, the total
>recorded time is often 8 - 10 minutes. That's 9 or 10 hours of wasted
>recording time.

Yes, it's quite astonishing how much time you can gain just by
whittling out the padding and adverts from a few programmes.

Rod.

[Davey]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 13:15:31 +0000

Jeff Layman <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Bad choice; very
> limited PVR functionality (far less than the 9200T),

I have never owned a 9200T. What PVR functionality did it have that the
HDR Fox did not? Just curious, not disagreeing.

--
Davey.

[Indy Jess John]

On 30/01/2017 13:35, Jeff Layman wrote:
>
> Have a look at Panasonic. For example the DMRHWT150EB.
>
> I don't think that any modern PVR is user-friendly for technophobes, as
> they seem to have umpteen functions that probably won't ever be used and
> serve only to complicate things. And Panasonic isn't exactly cheap, but
> in terms of reliability I've always been very impressed with their stuff.
>
> You can always download a manual and estimate how easy - or not - the
> PVR will be to use.
>

I have not tried a more recent Panasonic, because I am very happy with
my 8-year-old DMR-EX77.
It refreshes the 8-day EPG automatically at 8am every morning and before
the 8am time, the previous day's (now 7-day) EPG is instantly available.
It displays the EPG with the default og the channel currently being
watched, but all the other channels are immediately available using the
up/down buttons.

Automatic tuning finds channels on the fly with a strength indicator,
and if the same channel is found at a different frequency it keeps the
highest strength one, so that once the retune is complete you have the
best available reception of each station.

It doesn't have Series Record, but with an 8-day EPG and a +24hr button
on the remote, you can set next week's broadcast on the day that this
week's programme is due to be broadcast.

It has a DVD drive as well as an HDD, so you can record something, take
off the lead-in and lead-out times and remove all the adverts, then
write it to DVD to keep permanently.

The real drawback is that it is only DVB-T. Having discovered elsewhere
in this thread that the future is likely to be DVB-T2 only, it is likely
to go for scrap as a fully working unit, like my 405-line TV did.

However, it looks as though it will have at least a 2-year life left,
which brings me back to this subject line. With a nice friendly UI it
would suit a technophobe, and they are available fully working second
hand on ebay. Something like this http://tinyurl.com/juf7637 comes
complete with remote and manual and could be worth a punt if the bidding
doesn't go too high.

I can also advise on a DONT BUY. I bought a Samsung DVD-SH895M
intending to replace my Panasonic with it. It says it has series
record, but it loses track of the series part-way through so you have to
keep checking that when it has recorded one episode it has correctly
found the time and date of the next one. It also takes a long time to
get from Standby to Record. If you want to record a drama that plays a
scene-setter before the opening credits, you are going to miss some or
all of it. Deleting a programme after watching it was really fiddly
too. It is back in its box as a "spare" and I am still using the Panasonic.

Jim

[Jeff Layman]

> and I don't need to refrain from switching it off when I've finished,
> as it will keep the recording process continuing, whereas the Humax
> would just stop everything.

Which Panasonic PVR are you referring to? I learnt the hard way with
mine - although with scheduled recordings you can turn it off into
standby, if you use OTR (a misnomer anyway as you have to select the
recording time and press OK), you can't. I was watching something on the
TV and had to go out, so I just turned on the Panny PVR to the same
channel and used OTR. I then turned off the PVR (in the same way I had
always done with the Hummy) and went out. When I tried to view the
programme later all it had was the first 10 seconds!

I should add that sometimes it's best not to fiddle. After reading your
post I checked my setup for "Automatic standby after OTR". It was set to
"Off". Now the manual doesn't say what this means, but only what it
means if set to "On":
• On:
This unit is turned to standby mode when it
is not operated for approximately 5 minutes
after completing “Automatic Stop” or
“Recording Time”.

But my experience is that when the PVR had completed an OTR, it had
switched itself off. So to see what happened with OTR when it was set to
"On", I went into the setup and changed it to "On". Bad mistake. I tried
an OTR recording and switched the PVR off to see if the recording
continued, but something had totally screwed the PVR so that it didn't
respond to half the keys!!! I had to turn it on with the box's on/off
switch. The "Guide" and "Direct Navigator" keys temporarily blanked the
screen, but then the channel I had been viewing reappeared. Oddly,
"Function Menu" and "Option" worked, but if "Setup" was selected from
the menu which appeared, nothing happened. Most worrying, though, was
that the "Setup" key itself did nothing! So I couldn't get back to the
menu to return the "Automatic standby after OTR" setting to what it had
been a few minutes before. In the end I pulled the plug and left it for
10 minutes. Thankfully, on reapplying power everything worked OK. I then
reset "Automatic standby after OTR" to "Off".

--

Jeff

[Max Demian]

> All I can say is that the top of my list for anything I buy is
> reliability. If whatever I have doesn't work, I don't care how good its
> other features are - it's just a damn useless paperweight. I originally
> had a Humax 9200T. That worked well for 3 years or so until the "clock
> display" problem appeared. I fixed that myself following info on the
> internet. But over the next couple of years the Hummy started playing up
> with increasingly slow response times to the remote, and the odd missed
> recording. I decided to replace it (this was late 2012), but with what?
> Obviously an HD-capable PVR was needed, but did I want to risk another
> Hummy, particularly as the reports of the YouView weren't very good

You missed out on the Humax HDR-FOX T2, which is an excellent machine,
and definitely still available in 2012. (I bought a 'graded' one in 2014.)

I still have my 9200T as a 'second' machine and put up with the slow
response and EPG limitations - it's never had the --:-- clock problem.

--
Max Demian

[Jeff Layman]

This is from a post I made to this NG nearly 3 years ago:

The annoyances are mainly on the PVR side. It is functionally crippled
compared to the 9200T (I have both boxes).
1. No slow motion.
2. No "go to specific time" - you have to fast forward/back.
3. Similarly, no immediate return to the start of a recording.
4. No padding
5. No manual setting of programme times
6. No option to continue an instant record past the published end of the
programme time.
7. To play back a recorded programme is a rigmarole compared to the
9200T. With the latter, you pressed one button to get the recorded
programme list, then scrolled up or down to get to the recorded
programme to play back. With the YV, it's very long-winded. First,
press the Blue YouView button, Then scroll left to MyView, press "OK",
The first recorded programme list appears (if the programme you want
isn't on that list, you have to scroll left/right to get to other
programmes in the list). Press "OK" to get to the top of the list (I
don't think this is documented anywhere), or keep scrolling up. Scroll
up or down to get to the recorded programme to play back. But if you
have more than one programme recorded in series link, YouView creates a
new folder - The name of which may not exactly match what you think
you've recorded - then you have to scroll to that and press enter to get
the recorded series link list. Then scroll to the programme you want to
play back.

All updating is automatic; it can't be turned off. You can choose to
update manually as well.

There is a waste-of-space "Help" button - it simply refers to YouView
webpages!

Finally, booting in full Eco-mode takes forever - over 2 minutes. It
also lies when it displays "Nearly ready", as it still has around a
minute before the box is ready to use.

Well, you did ask!!!

--

Jeff

[Max Demian]

Actually, Jeff was talking about YouView, not the Fox.

--
Max Demian

[Jeff Layman]

Mine was the DTR-T1010/500GB YouView. In the end it wouldn't boot at
all. A piece of unreliable junk..

> I still have my 9200T .

So have I - it's just high enough to raise the height of my new 55"
Panny TV above the speakers I have at the side (which weren't reached by
the 37" Panny)!

--

Jeff

[Roderick Stewart]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 16:00:20 +0000, Jeff Layman
<jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>> and I don't need to refrain from switching it off when I've finished,
>> as it will keep the recording process continuing, whereas the Humax
>> would just stop everything.
>
>Which Panasonic PVR are you referring to? I learnt the hard way with
>mine - although with scheduled recordings you can turn it off into
>standby, if you use OTR (a misnomer anyway as you have to select the
>recording time and press OK), you can't. I was watching something on the
>TV and had to go out, so I just turned on the Panny PVR to the same
>channel and used OTR. I then turned off the PVR (in the same way I had
>always done with the Hummy) and went out. When I tried to view the
>programme later all it had was the first 10 seconds!

I've had several Panasonics, the first in the days of analogue
broadcasting having a single analogue tuner, to the most recent one
which is <checks number> DMR-HW120, which has two HD digital tuners. I
had to look up "OTR" to see what you meant by it, and if any of my
PVRs have had this I've never used it. It doesn't surprise me that
it's switched off when you switch off the machine, as I think the
"pause live TV" function does the same. It would only be counted as a
direct command rather than a programmed one.

However, if you set up a programmed recording, either by picking an
item from the programme guide or by entering the details manually,
that recording will get completed regardless of anything else you do
with the controls unless you pull the plug out at the wall. I think
there is a clever way of cancelling a recording that has already
started, but on the rare occasions I've wanted to do it I've had to
get the book out and look it up. It's far easier to let a recording
run its course and edit or delete it afterwards.

This is in stark contrast to the only Humax device I ever had
(admittedly an early one so maybe the software is better now) which
didn't protect programmed recordings in the same way, i.e. even if I
switched power off during a programmed recording, that recording would
be stopped. Also, if I decided to watch a programme while it was being
recorded but a little behind real time, when the programmed recording
time ended the playback would be cut simultaneously, and if I wanted
to view the rest of the programme I'd have to go back to the playback
menu, pick out the programme again and spool through to the place
where it stopped. This was very frustrating. The Panasonics are
admittedly a little more expensive than the others, but have had none
of the quirks of the Humax, and I've always considered the extra for
stuff that works properly is money well spent.

Rod.

[T i m]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 18:47:17 +0000, Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>Is there really nothing other than Humax or Panasonic? I ask because
>my trusty Humax 9200-T (see upthread) will soon need replacing as it
>hasn't got DBV-T2.

Same with my Topfield 5800's I'm guessing. ;-(

> The later Humax's don't seem so reliable or
>flexible, but I strongly dislike the font and text layout of the
>Panasonics. Trivial points, maybe,

But once you have had something that works better / as you expect /
like you resent anything less thereafter. ;-(

> but surely there's something else!

That was my general question ...

>I've seen Samsung, Echostar, Huawei and YouView mentioned here in the
>past. Are they no longer available?

It seems like there should be an iPod moment here ... bringing ease of
use to ordinary people when whilst there were alternatives out there,
none of them ticked as many boxes for as many people as the iPod /
tunes / store did.

As I said elsewhere, who wouldn't want a mute on a remote (even though
I personally rarely use it over just vol-)., who would *want* the box
to change over to the channel being recorded whilst watching something
else? Who wouldn't want various types of series search and have them
'just work' (even if it if picks up some repeats).

If I set my Toppy to do something it just does it ... and always has
and it will be a very sad day when I have to turn it off for the last
time (especially considering all the niggles some have mentioned here,
even with their 'best option available' machines). ;-(

All this makes me consider building my own PVR but I think that way
madness lies and in 2017 and with some reasonable competition out
there you really wouldn't think there would be the need?

Cheers, T i m

[Dave W]

"Davey" <da...@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:o6ok2i$gai$2...@n102.xanadu-bbs.net...

I had exactly the same problem on my Humax Foxsat = the Crackanory slot in
the EPG was black. I've never seen such a thing before. I couldn't select it
and when I tried to set it to record I got a message that a recording would
start at a 2.30am repeat. I eventually got it to record on the +1 channel at
11pm. Maybe there was something wrong with the EPG transmission, not the
Humax.

I haven't watched it yet but I saw a promo which did not bode well for my
taste.
--
Dave W

[Dave W]

"Davey" <da...@example.invalid> wrote in message

news:o6ok57$gai$3...@n102.xanadu-bbs.net...

I've set my Humax Foxsat skip-forward to its maximum 4 minutes - perfect for
skipping ads and trailers, saving 15 mins per hour.
--
Dave W

[Davey]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 16:24:04 +0000

Although Jeff is right, I didn't realise that you meant that Youview was
a large part of the problem. Try it without Youview.

However:

> 1. No slow motion.
Agreed.

> 2. No "go to specific time" - you have to fast forward/back.

I don't find that a problem. You can use either the cursor keys for
large jumps or the 'skip' keys for precise work.

> 3. Similarly, no immediate return to the start of a recording.

Easiest is to Stop, then Start from Beginning again.

> 4. No padding
Huh? Padding is an option, and the CF makes it available on a
programme-by-programme basis. But I far prefer Accurate Recording
anyway.

> 5. No manual setting of programme times

The first line of the Screen for Scheduled recordings allows a manual
setup.

> 6. No option to continue an instant record past the published end of
> the programme time.

That is, I agree, a big problem. But I do believe that pressing the
Record button again within 10 minutes of the end of the
recording programme should record the next programme. I haven't tried
this, it's on the Round Tuit list.

> 7. To play back a recorded programme is a rigmarole compared to the
> 9200T. With the latter, you pressed one button to get the recorded
> programme list, then scrolled up or down to get to the recorded
> programme to play back. With the YV, it's very long-winded. First,
> press the Blue YouView button, Then scroll left to MyView, press "OK",
> The first recorded programme list appears (if the programme you want
> isn't on that list, you have to scroll left/right to get to other
> programmes in the list). Press "OK" to get to the top of the list (I
> don't think this is documented anywhere), or keep scrolling up. Scroll
> up or down to get to the recorded programme to play back. But if you
> have more than one programme recorded in series link, YouView creates
> a new folder - The name of which may not exactly match what you think
> you've recorded - then you have to scroll to that and press enter to
> get the recorded series link list. Then scroll to the programme you
> want to play back.
>

I don't have Youview, so I don't have these problems!

--
Davey.

[T i m]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 18:47:17 +0000, Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>Is there really nothing other than Humax or Panasonic? I ask because
>my trusty Humax 9200-T (see upthread) will soon need replacing as it

>hasn't got DBV-T2. The later Humax's don't seem so reliable or

>flexible, but I strongly dislike the font and text layout of the

>Panasonics. Trivial points, maybe, but surely there's something else!

>I've seen Samsung, Echostar, Huawei and YouView mentioned here in the
>past. Are they no longer available?

I have just been looking at the 'BT YouView+ Smart 500GB Freeview HD
Digital TV Recorder' on JL:

http://www.johnlewis.com/bt-youview-smart-500gb-freeview-hd-digital-tv-recorder/p1339313

... and it seems to tick all the right boxes and it quite cheap so
what have I missed?

Do we have to be on BT or sign up with BT to use it?

Anyone here got / tried one and if so, what do you think please?

Cheers, T i m

p.s. And I assume it would be ok with the upcoming standards?

[Pete Forman]

Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> writes:

> I'm sure a year or two back I saw PVRs that had expansion slots (like
> a computer) that would take individual tuner cards, up to say six
> cards, so six tuners. I can't find reference to them now, which makes
> me think technology may have moved on, possibly in the form of
> youview, and there's no call for multi-tuner PVR's any more.

Are you thinking of CI slots that could take CAM cards? (Common
Interface, Conditional Access Model). Those were for enabling
subscription services.

[UnsteadyKen]

In article <g8e49cdoq8tklk428...@4ax.com>, m...@privacy.net
says...

> I'm sure a year or two back I saw PVRs that had expansion slots (like
> a computer) that would take individual tuner cards, up to say six
> cards, so six tuners.
>

Could it have been a media PC in a low profile case like this?
https://www.quietpc.com/sys-mamba-s
Fit some Quad tuner cards
https://www.quietpc.com/tbs-tv-cards
and hey presto a 12 tuner PVR

[T i m]

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 19:47:09 +0000, Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>I'm not familiar with youview capabilities, but how many tuners does
>it have?

According to this review, 2 Chris (half way down):

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tvs-entertainment/pvrs/53380/bt-youview-tv-review/page/0/2

>Or does having youview mean that you don't really need to
>record anything unless you want to keep it long-term, because if there
>are two programmes of interest being broadcast at the same time, you
>can just watch one and watch the second at some other time by
>downloading it direct from the source?

Well, you could do that as well but I think YouView+ is essentially a
std Freeview PVR but with 'Smart' functionality built in. If you had a
straight Freeview PVR and say a NowTV box you would have the same
functionality but without the integration (eg, you couldn't search
across all sources from one place or view it all on one HDMI input).

https://www.shop.bt.com/products/bt-youview--box-077328-9C5J.html

Someone here must have one or do I have to be the first? ;-)

>
>I'm sure a year or two back I saw PVRs that had expansion slots (like
>a computer) that would take individual tuner cards, up to say six

>cards, so six tuners. I can't find reference to them now, which makes
>me think technology may have moved on, possibly in the form of
>youview, and there's no call for multi-tuner PVR's any more.

That sounds pretty expandable and probably nearer to the sort of thing
you could do with a PC yourself.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 10:25:50 +0000, T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

<snip>

>>>
>>>http://www.johnlewis.com/bt-youview-smart-500gb-freeview-hd-digital-tv-recorder/p1339313
>>>
>>>... and it seems to tick all the right boxes and it quite cheap so
>>>what have I missed?
>>>
>>>Do we have to be on BT or sign up with BT to use it?
>>>
>>>Anyone here got / tried one and if so, what do you think please?
>>>
>>>Cheers, T i m
>>>
>>>p.s. And I assume it would be ok with the upcoming standards?
>>

Or, does anyone have a Humax DTR-T2110 that I believe the BT variant
is based on?

https://recombu.com/digital/article/new-bt-youview-box-talktalk-tv_M12743.html

Cheers, T i m

[UnsteadyKen]

In article <jr169cdm6sf1lp0cj...@4ax.com>,
ne...@spaced.me.uk says...

> Someone here must have one
>

Guilty" I've had BT vision for a some time, the box illustrated replaced
the original BT Vision box a couple of years ago.
I can't remember who made the original one but it was ran on Windows CE
and towards the end of its life an OTA upgrade enabled HD.
It was a decent box, I had no problems with it.

The latest one identifies itself as a Humax DTR-T2100, I don't know what
OS it uses, possibly a Linux variant. It does take some time to boot
from a cold start, once up and running it is responsive and comes out of
standby quickly. The EPG is clear and all operations are quite slick.
(Unlike my Linux LG TV (cheapskate model) which can take up to 30
seconds to heave the EPG onto the screen;-()
It has 2 tuners which can record off air or the internet channels,
nd has all the usual? stuff; series record, catch up players, netflix
Now TV, lots of similar BT TV services and so on.

The box itself runs silently, doesn't get very warm and the separate
PSU is cool running too.
All in all it operates well, I don't have any real complaints.

The box came as part of my BT package, which includes BT Infinity Option
1 (unlimited download at 52Mb/s), a calling plan, caller display and so
forth.
Last months bill was £39.40 which include a £5 premium for extra HD
channels and does not include line rental which I pay yearly in advance.

I ring BT shortly before the yearly contract expires, give them some
tommyrot about considering moving to Virgin or Sky to save money and
they usually come up with some sort of discount and throw in a couple of
freebies which keeps the price competitive.

[T i m]

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 11:45:08 -0000, UnsteadyKen
<unsteadyk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>In article <jr169cdm6sf1lp0cj...@4ax.com>,
>ne...@spaced.me.uk says...
>> Someone here must have one
>>
>Guilty"

Cool. ;-)

>I've had BT vision for a some time, the box illustrated replaced
>the original BT Vision box a couple of years ago.

Ok. The 2110 over the 2100.

>I can't remember who made the original one but it was ran on Windows CE
>and towards the end of its life an OTA upgrade enabled HD.

Ok.

>It was a decent box, I had no problems with it.

The problem is ... if it's not the exact same box (even with the same
firm / software) I think it could be dangerous to draw comparisons,
especially re things like reliability, ease of use or features etc
(I'm not suggesting that you are here, just that maybe one shouldn't).

Like ... someone asked if I we (on a group) knew of a Mac compatible
webcam as we recommended one that was advertised as and was indeed Mac
compatible. They bought one and found it wasn't Mac compatible.
Long-short it turned out that whilst the product was still being sold
as the same thing, they had changed the chipset or some such and
whilst that still worked fine on Windows it was no longer Mac
compatible. ;-(

>
>The latest one identifies itself as a Humax DTR-T2100, I don't know what
>OS it uses, possibly a Linux variant. It does take some time to boot
>from a cold start,

Someone posted that the 2110 takes 1 min 38 seconds to boot from cold.
(FWIW etc). ;-)

> once up and running it is responsive and comes out of
>standby quickly.

On that it seems that some of these boxes kill the RF loopthrough when
in deep eco / standby mode and leaving them in a sub standby mode
consumes quite a few watts (12 was mentioned). OOI, what would be
wrong with splitting the RF feed in (PVR / TV) as I don't think
anything uses the RF lead to send anything does it?

>The EPG is clear

And that's another thing I've notices, some of these STB's assume we
are all running 50" TV's! ;-(

> and all operations are quite slick.

Nice to know. 'Slick' is how all good UI's should be. ;-)

>(Unlike my Linux LG TV (cheapskate model) which can take up to 30
>seconds to heave the EPG onto the screen;-()

And that feels longer and longer every time you have to use it.

>It has 2 tuners which can record off air or the internet channels,

Ah, now that was something I've seen mentioned but wasn't sure was
offered or possible. So you can record (save?) programs from the
Internet (catch-up?) as well as the std stuff?

>and has all the usual? stuff; series record,

Apparently series search / record isn't always present on some
machines though.

>catch up players, netflix
>Now TV, lots of similar BT TV services and so on.

Ok.

>
>The box itself runs silently, doesn't get very warm and the separate
>PSU is cool running too.

Good points (thanks).

>All in all it operates well, I don't have any real complaints.

And that seems to make it a pretty rare box these days as even the
fans of any particular box will admit frustration on some points (like
no mute button on the Panasonic remote).

>
>The box came as part of my BT package, which includes BT Infinity Option
>1 (unlimited download at 52Mb/s), a calling plan, caller display and so
>forth.

As an aside from me posting this question for my inlaws, my Mum (86)
might also appreciate something that is easy, reliable and 'just
works' and whilst she can use catchup on her iPad (I don't know how
often she does or last did), it would be much better for her to do so
on their TV and for *us* (or me in particular) to be able to watch /
record stuff round there as well. As it happens she has unlimited BT
BB but just over ADSL. That said, she's only a few hundred yards from
the local exchange so I think her BB speeds are pretty good (I mention
that Mum is with BT in case it changes how we might get a STB for
her).

>Last months bill was £39.40 which include a £5 premium for extra HD
>channels and does not include line rental which I pay yearly in advance.

Understood.

>
>I ring BT shortly before the yearly contract expires, give them some
>tommyrot about considering moving to Virgin or Sky to save money and
>they usually come up with some sort of discount and throw in a couple of
>freebies which keeps the price competitive.
>

I may have to do that with VM again as the BB bill keeps creeping up,
even though we don't request / click-to-upgrade or really need the
speed increases.

I might see if I can find a second hand 2110 to play with myself and
such could replace the Topfields when they become obsolete.

Cheers, T i m

[UnsteadyKen]

In article <8d869c56hei15itjr...@4ax.com>,
ne...@spaced.me.uk says...

> On that it seems that some of these boxes kill the RF loopthrough when
> in deep eco / standby mode and leaving them in a sub standby mode
> consumes quite a few watts (12 was mentioned).
>

The BT box has 3 standby setings with varying degress of power saving.
Always on, smart and energy saver.

RF loopthrough is switchable and it appears you can set it to always on
in any power mode.

I use Always on with loopthrough off,I have a seperate RF feed for the
TV.

You also say:

> So you can record (save?) programs from the
> Internet (catch-up?) as well as the std stuff?

Sadly not, I've just tried to record from iPlayer and ITVhub, nothing
doing.

It will record the BT provided internet subscription channels.

I don't watch TV much, radio is more my scene, currently the HD shows
92% free and contains a couple of dozen recordings, mostly Book at
bedtime, Book of the week,Afternoon drama and Bargain Hunt (Addictive)

One really big improvement with this version of the box compared to the
original is that when replaying radio recordings you can pause fast
forward rewind restart etc as per video recordings.
The first box just had play and stop available, a right pain as any
interruption meant restart from the beginning and listen all the way
through in real time. Plus there was no way of telling elapsed/remaining
time.
I sent a couple of whingeing emails to BT about this behaviour, but just
got vague replies about possibly I"mplementing this feature" in future
software updates.
Perhaps they did listen and released the new box to keep me happy:-)

[Davey]

On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 00:14:24 +0000
Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:

> > 6. No option to continue an instant record past the published end of
> > the programme time.
> That is, I agree, a big problem. But I do believe that pressing the
> Record button again within 10 minutes of the end of the
> recording programme should record the next programme. I haven't tried
> this, it's on the Round Tuit list.

I just tried this on my HDR Fox T2. I started recording a programme
well before its end, then when there were maybe five minutes left, I
pressed Record again. I was presented with a box offering me some
options for setting the Finish time, and the simplest just required me
to press the forward cursor key a couple of times to set up an end time
about 15 minutes ahead.
'OK' entered this, and it worked.

So it is available, and not too bad, especially when you have practised
its use. I will certainly remember this, as I have occasionally lost
the end of such a recording when it finished later than its EPG time.
SWMBO hates that, and curses all things technical.
If I had pre-programmed the recording, then AR would have automatically
matched the finish time.

--
Davey.

[T i m]

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 13:46:43 -0000, UnsteadyKen
<unsteadyk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>In article <8d869c56hei15itjr...@4ax.com>,
>ne...@spaced.me.uk says...
>> On that it seems that some of these boxes kill the RF loopthrough when
>> in deep eco / standby mode and leaving them in a sub standby mode
>> consumes quite a few watts (12 was mentioned).
>>
>The BT box has 3 standby setings with varying degress of power saving.
>Always on, smart and energy saver.
>
>RF loopthrough is switchable and it appears you can set it to always on
>in any power mode.

Ok thanks. Again, I wonder if this has changed on the 2110 model?

>
>I use Always on with loopthrough off,I have a seperate RF feed for the
>TV.

Assuming you signal strength isn't marginal, I can't see why that
wouldn't be a better solution in any case?

>
>You also say:
>
>> So you can record (save?) programs from the
>> Internet (catch-up?) as well as the std stuff?
>
>Sadly not, I've just tried to record from iPlayer and ITVhub, nothing
>doing.

Ok, thanks very much for checking. I though I read that you could on
one of the review sites but you can something read things into what is
written, depending what you are hoping for.

>
>It will record the BT provided internet subscription channels.

Ah, that must have been the *actual* definition of what it can do.

>
>I don't watch TV much, radio is more my scene, currently the HD shows
>92% free and contains a couple of dozen recordings, mostly Book at
>bedtime, Book of the week,Afternoon drama and Bargain Hunt (Addictive)

It can be can't it. ;-)

>
> One really big improvement with this version of the box compared to the
>original is that when replaying radio recordings you can pause fast
>forward rewind restart etc as per video recordings.

I've had that a few time with some videos and it is a pain.

>The first box just had play and stop available, a right pain as any
>interruption meant restart from the beginning and listen all the way
>through in real time.

Yup. ;-(

> Plus there was no way of telling elapsed/remaining
>time.

Again, another big pain. Even a progress bar generally gives you a
some idea of how you are doing ... or even a 'Please wait, this might
take a time' type message.

>I sent a couple of whingeing emails to BT about this behaviour, but just
>got vague replies about possibly I"mplementing this feature" in future
>software updates.

And the thing is, in many cases it could probably be implement
reasonably easily (as most stuff is in software these days). [1]

>Perhaps they did listen and released the new box to keep me happy:-)

That would be a lovely thought. A way that may have worked is if you
were one of many who mentioned the same thing, after all, if no one
else does they may simply assume everyone else doesn't care (enough),
even if they were aware of it themselves?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I finally got round to stripping down an old Roland GRX-300 pen
plotter the other day and was 'surprised' to see how many discrete
components it contained. How in 'these days' there would be just a CPU
and the PSU and drivers.

[T i m]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:44:33 +0000, Davey <da...@example.invalid>
wrote:

<snip>

>Not a DTR, but I have a refurbished HDR Fox T2, which is now about 4
>years old, and it has been fine.

So, changing tack here, if I was to forget the integrated catchup
function, is this HDR Fox T2 the 'go to' FV Recorder (that wouldn't
become outmoded in a couple of years) would you say?

> I added the CF Firmware,

What's that may I ask?

> which made it
>a lot more friendly.

(It's an improvement whatever it is). ;-)

>But friends bought a modern Humax, and had to return it. The
>replacement has been fine.

Cool.
>
>Who knows?

Well, running the numbers would give us a slightly better idea but
without the facts that's difficult to do.

We all know there are good and bad products out there as sometimes
manufactures get it right (I would say that fits the Topfield TF5800,
excluding the bad-cap issue) and sometimes they get it very wrong
(often for unfathomable reasons).

Even the big players like Microsoft (W8?) or Samsung ... not just the
mistake of not allowing for adding a uSD card but as bad as bursting
into flames.

Cheers, T i m

[Tim+]

T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:44:33 +0000, Davey <da...@example.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Not a DTR, but I have a refurbished HDR Fox T2, which is now about 4
>> years old, and it has been fine.
>
> So, changing tack here, if I was to forget the integrated catchup
> function, is this HDR Fox T2 the 'go to' FV Recorder (that wouldn't
> become outmoded in a couple of years) would you say?
>
>> I added the CF Firmware,
>
> What's that may I ask?

A tautology. ;-) Just "custom firmware" as fast as I'm aware.

See https://wiki.hummy.tv/wiki/Custom_Firmware_Overview

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[Davey]

Exactly, a tautology that helps explain what it is. It makes the device
much friendlier, especially if you wish to transfer files back and forth
between it and your PC. It has such useful things as individual, ie
programme by programme, control of Padding or Automatic Recording, a
Dustbin for delete files, which is surprisingly useful, and many
others, such as full control of updating, including backing up the
programme schedule, and restoration after updating.

--
Davey.

[T i m]

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 23:31:50 -0000 (UTC), Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:44:33 +0000, Davey <da...@example.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Not a DTR, but I have a refurbished HDR Fox T2, which is now about 4
>>> years old, and it has been fine.
>>
>> So, changing tack here, if I was to forget the integrated catchup
>> function, is this HDR Fox T2 the 'go to' FV Recorder (that wouldn't
>> become outmoded in a couple of years) would you say?
>>
>>> I added the CF Firmware,
>>
>> What's that may I ask?
>
>A tautology. ;-)

;-)

>Just "custom firmware" as fast as I'm aware.

Thanks.


>
>See https://wiki.hummy.tv/wiki/Custom_Firmware_Overview

Handy features, for me anyway. I like playing with connectivity and
could / would use some of that on my home LAN / server / NAS etc.

For the inlaws, not a chance. ;-)

I was looking at a Humax 2000 from Richer Sounds (to get the 6yr
warranty) but a few people mention the fan and other noises. ;-(

When I build PC's I tent to make them as quiet as possible (my last
one is fanless and has a SSD so is *silent*) and so was something I
also took for granted with the Topfield 5800.

I dug out her old Humax PVR-9150T earlier and will run it up and see
if it still works. If it does, maybe it will be good enough as a
taster for the inlaws and if they like it they can get something
themselves.

Or maybe I shouldn't, maybe I should have put it in the bin when I
replaced it with the (second hand!) Toppy for her years longer ago
than the Humax ever ran reliably for her.: ;-(

http://preview.tinyurl.com/zr2pxtz

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 00:10:08 +0000, Davey <da...@example.invalid>
wrote:

So, this CF sounds like it adds good stuff like 'MyStuff' and the
other 'essential' TAPS do for the Toppy?

Shame they don't have such a solution for the PVR-9510T as it might
actually make it reliable? ;-(

The question is, what is it inside something like that that can cause
it (them) to be so flaky but only after a year or so? I mean, it's
not like it was flaky from the get-go, it was fine. And how come the
replacement sent by Humax was fine but only for a couple of months (so
till outside the two year warranty period)?

We know devices can go 'bad', like the electrolytic capacitor plague
and things fail, especially electro-mechanical things like hard
drives, fans and remote control buttons, but how many PC's that get
thrown away do so because the motherboard has failed (not just the
caps on it taking something else out)?

So, like the good folk on the Toppy forum who post the list of PU caps
that need changing, is there not somewhere where someone has worked
out what it is that seem to make some of these Humax's go flaky after
a while and how to fix them?

Cheers, T i m

[Jeff Layman]

Yes, that's the way it worked on the 9200T, but in their idiocy Humax
removed that facility from the DTR-T1010 (I should have made it clear
that it wasn't a Fox, which I believe appeared a couple of months
later). I assume that this was linked in some way to the
non-availability of manual programming, only "accurate recording" was
featured.

I think that most broadcasters are much better now at changing an EPG
end time if programmes are running late, or will often just cancel the
programme and reschedule it for later transmission. BICBW...

--

Jeff

[Tim+]

Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 23:31:50 -0000 (UTC)
> Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:44:33 +0000, Davey <da...@example.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Not a DTR, but I have a refurbished HDR Fox T2, which is now about
>>>> 4 years old, and it has been fine.
>>>
>>> So, changing tack here, if I was to forget the integrated catchup
>>> function, is this HDR Fox T2 the 'go to' FV Recorder (that wouldn't
>>> become outmoded in a couple of years) would you say?
>>>
>>>> I added the CF Firmware,
>>>
>>> What's that may I ask?
>>
>> A tautology. ;-) Just "custom firmware" as fast as I'm aware.
>>
>> See https://wiki.hummy.tv/wiki/Custom_Firmware_Overview
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
> Exactly, a tautology that helps explain what it is.

So clear it needed explaining. Tautologies like PIN number have become
common place as we all know what is meant by PIN. CF is not a well known
abbreviation for custom firmware so "CF firmware" doesn't really clarify
things much. Hence "custom firmware" is clearer and involves no tautology.

[Davey]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 08:56:06 +0000
Jeff Layman <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> I think that most broadcasters are much better now at changing an EPG
> end time if programmes are running late,

If they are better than they used to be, it must have been terrible!

--
Davey.

[Davey]

On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 01:07:22 +0000
T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

> So, this CF sounds like it adds good stuff like 'MyStuff' and the
> other 'essential' TAPS do for the Toppy?
>

I have no experience of 'Toppys', so cannot comment on that aspect.

> Shame they don't have such a solution for the PVR-9510T as it might
> actually make it reliable? ;-(
>
> The question is, what is it inside something like that that can cause
> it (them) to be so flaky but only after a year or so? I mean, it's
> not like it was flaky from the get-go, it was fine. And how come the
> replacement sent by Humax was fine but only for a couple of months (so
> till outside the two year warranty period)?
>
> We know devices can go 'bad', like the electrolytic capacitor plague
> and things fail, especially electro-mechanical things like hard
> drives, fans and remote control buttons, but how many PC's that get
> thrown away do so because the motherboard has failed (not just the
> caps on it taking something else out)?
>
> So, like the good folk on the Toppy forum who post the list of PU caps
> that need changing, is there not somewhere where someone has worked
> out what it is that seem to make some of these Humax's go flaky after
> a while and how to fix them?

I don't know of one, but not having had any such problem, I haven't
looked, either.

--
Davey.

[Davey]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:38:33 -0000 (UTC)

However we got there, now we all know what 'CF' means for Humaxes.

--
Davey.

[tim...]

"Davey" <da...@example.invalid> wrote in message

news:o71pqr$qcv$5...@n102.xanadu-bbs.net...

um no

only for that particular model

Humax are not routinely chip-able

tim

[tim...]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:tot89cps7donu4pn7...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 08:56:06 +0000, Jeff Layman <jmla...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>

>>
>>I think that most broadcasters are much better now at changing an EPG
>>end time if programmes are running late, or will often just cancel the
>>programme and reschedule it for later transmission. BICBW...
>

> The only thing my Humax Freesat PVR can't cope with is switching channels,
> the
> way the BBC do when for example they show Andy Murray playing tennis and
> it
> overruns the scheduled time. If a programme stays on the same channel and
> overruns it copes OK.

the issue isn't the box not coping, it's the broadcaster not setting the
flags properly

I've just had a problem this week resolving clashes because the programs in
question were not linked with the plus one channels like they usually are

tim




> --
>
> Martin in Zuid Holland
>
>
>

[T i m]

On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 13:26:27 +0100, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 00:38:34 +0000, T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 23:31:50 -0000 (UTC), Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:44:33 +0000, Davey <da...@example.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> Not a DTR, but I have a refurbished HDR Fox T2, which is now about 4
>>>>> years old, and it has been fine.
>>>>
>>>> So, changing tack here, if I was to forget the integrated catchup
>>>> function, is this HDR Fox T2 the 'go to' FV Recorder (that wouldn't
>>>> become outmoded in a couple of years) would you say?
>>>>
>>>>> I added the CF Firmware,
>>>>
>>>> What's that may I ask?
>>>
>>>A tautology. ;-)
>>
>>;-)
>>
>>>Just "custom firmware" as fast as I'm aware.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>See https://wiki.hummy.tv/wiki/Custom_Firmware_Overview
>>
>>Handy features, for me anyway. I like playing with connectivity and
>>could / would use some of that on my home LAN / server / NAS etc.
>>
>>For the inlaws, not a chance. ;-)
>>
>>I was looking at a Humax 2000 from Richer Sounds (to get the 6yr
>>warranty) but a few people mention the fan and other noises. ;-(
>

>The current Humax models don't have a fan.

Oh, ok, but the reviews of Humaxes that RS are currently selling that
fit my criteria seem to cite fan noise (as a Con of course)?

Like:
http://www.richersounds.com/product/digital-set-top-boxes/humax/hdr2000t-500gb/huma-hdr2000t-500gb

So if I want to get one from RS to get the 6yr guarantee, what one do
I get that doesn't potentially have 'other' problems (like a slow UI
or no mute on the remote etc)?

I'm not questioning what you say, just trying to make it fit my
scenario. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Davey]

On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 14:55:03 +0100
Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

> Only very old Humax PVRs :-)

Maybe. But it works on mine, which is what I care about for now.

--
Davy.

[Max Demian]

On 02/02/2017 23:31, Tim+ wrote:
> T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:44:33 +0000, Davey <da...@example.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Not a DTR, but I have a refurbished HDR Fox T2, which is now about 4
>>> years old, and it has been fine.
>>
>> So, changing tack here, if I was to forget the integrated catchup
>> function, is this HDR Fox T2 the 'go to' FV Recorder (that wouldn't
>> become outmoded in a couple of years) would you say?
>>
>>> I added the CF Firmware,
>>
>> What's that may I ask?
>
> A tautology. ;-) Just "custom firmware" as fast as I'm aware.

Actually it's called the RAS Syndrome (Redundant Acronym Syndrome
(Syndrome)).

--
Max Demian

[Davey]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 12:09:55 -0000
"tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > However we got there, now we all know what 'CF' means for Humaxes.
>
> um no
>
> only for that particular model
>
> Humax are not routinely chip-able

We know what it means. Whether it applies to a particular model is a
totally different matter.

--
Davey.

[Davey]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 14:19:08 +0000
Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> >>> I added the CF Firmware,
> >>
> >> What's that may I ask?
> >
> > A tautology. ;-) Just "custom firmware" as fast as I'm aware.
>
> Actually it's called the RAS Syndrome (Redundant Acronym Syndrome
> (Syndrome)).

Surely an acronym has to be pronounceable as a word? But I appreciate
your POV.

--
Davey.

[T i m]

On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 15:08:14 +0100, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

<snip>

>>>>I was looking at a Humax 2000 from Richer Sounds (to get the 6yr
>>>>warranty) but a few people mention the fan and other noises. ;-(
>>>
>>>The current Humax models don't have a fan.
>>
>>Oh, ok, but the reviews of Humaxes that RS are currently selling that
>>fit my criteria seem to cite fan noise (as a Con of course)?
>

>I don;t see any mention of fan noise in reviews of the HUMAX
>HDR1100S 1TB The current models have the curved shape.

Like this then?

http://www.richersounds.com/product/digital-set-top-boxes/humax/fvp4000t-500gb/huma-fvp4000t-500-m

>>
>>Like:
>>http://www.richersounds.com/product/digital-set-top-boxes/humax/hdr2000t-500gb/huma-hdr2000t-500gb
>>
>>So if I want to get one from RS to get the 6yr guarantee, what one do
>>I get that doesn't potentially have 'other' problems (like a slow UI
>>or no mute on the remote etc)?
>

>The UI isn't slow and there is a mute button on the controller of the current
>Humax PVR ( same applies to STB) I bought
>http://www.richersounds.com/product/digital-set-top-boxes/humax/hdr1100s-1tb/huma-hdr-1100s-1tb

Sure but I was talking about PVRs in general so including the Panny
etc. Sorry for any confusion.
>
>The price has increased since I bought mine last summer. Panasonic no longer
>make Freesat PVRs.

Ok.

So, is the idea of buying 'a Humax' from RS simply because it has a 6
yr warranty a reasonably buying decision? I'm not expecting anyone to
guarantee anything for ever but I would imagine 'most people' would
consider something like a set-top-box to last at least say 6 years and
so anything less to be considered not of 'merchantable quality' (or
whatever the term is)?

I think one of the other benefits we got from the EU was a minimum 3
year guarantee on such things (and probably why the likes of Lidl
offer such across the range).

My Sony Trinitron 'Monitor style' CRT TV lasted about 20 years (with
just a couple of minor fixes, like 1 ceramic cap and an on-off switch)
and I have a Panasonic portable radio and a Binatone clock radio that
are nearer 30 years old.

Is it just a matter of accepting this really is a disposable world
(you can see how uneasy I am about suggesting anything of such value
to anyone else, even with a 6yr warranty). ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 16:51:49 +0100, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

<ship>

>>Like this then?
>>
>>http://www.richersounds.com/product/digital-set-top-boxes/humax/fvp4000t-500gb/huma-fvp4000t-500-m
>

>Cosmetically. I have no experience of Humax except for Freesat.

Understood, however it's the general 'Humax experience' (especially
reliability, the UI and any missing 'key features') and assuming the
Humax Sat stuff is made in the same place as their Freeview stuff (and
it is an assumption I know) that I was after. ;-)
>>
<snip>

>>My Sony Trinitron 'Monitor style' CRT TV lasted about 20 years (with
>>just a couple of minor fixes, like 1 ceramic cap and an on-off switch)
>

>Mine lasted more than 25 years it was still working when I binned it, for some
>meanings of working.

;-)

> It worked when driven from an STB or anything else with an
>tuner. The memory on the channel selection was dead. Minor fixes on mine
>included total replacement twice under guarantee and a new sound board under
>guarantee and then stability for a long time

>
>>and I have a Panasonic portable radio and a Binatone clock radio that
>>are nearer 30 years old.
>

>We have a Philips alarm clock radio which is the same age as my son, we bought
>it late night shopping the night he was born in 1980. We have a Sony receiver
>from 1981 which just about works all the control knobs are worn out.
>In 1994 we bought Miele washing machine, Miele tumbler drier and Miele dish
>washer. All have been problem free except the dish washer which want wrong
>during the guarantee period and was fixed by Miele the next day. We also have a
>Miele deep freeze which we bought in 1984 and two Bosch deep freezers bought
>more than 20 years ago They have never had a problem.

Sweet. Just as it should be eh? ;-)

>
>>Is it just a matter of accepting this really is a disposable world
>>(you can see how uneasy I am about suggesting anything of such value
>>to anyone else, even with a 6yr warranty). ;-(
>

>Being a realist/cynic I accept the world the way it is. A world which can
>produce reliable electronics,

Exactly, so why (in my and many other people experience) can't Humax
(YMMV of course). I'll qualify that in that all three Topfield STB's
we have here, all have had their capacitors change but like many of
the pieces of equipment you list, after that (when bad / weak
components from the manufacturer have been replaced) they can go on
for ages. *How come*, in spite of many people obviously have
reliability / functionality issues with Humax hardware has no one come
up with a fix (or fixes)? I believe they have for the clock display
(and I have applied it) but not the general functionality? I for one
am very hesitant to buy another Humax box when no one (inc Humax it
seems) have the faintest idea what the cause of the problems are?

>but not a quiet reliable fan. :-)

The 'quiet' bit can be a function of the design (I have fan cooled
PC's that are silent) but the reliability issue is the same as with
any electro-mechanical device I guess. And if I knew I had to replace
a fan when it became noisy after every two years, that wouldn't put me
off much at all, I'd just treat it as std routine maintenance. ;-)
>
>In real terms most things are cheaper than 30-40 years ago but quality is lower
>too.

I bet the margins are much greater now as well!

When a PC PSU was about £15 trade I found out the manufacturing cost
was around £1.50. That still doesn't excuse them from being
unreliable.

Cheers, T i m

[Mike Tomlinson]

>D i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

>> I would / might look for another second hand Toppy but I think HDMI
>> would be more convenient.

The Topfield 5810 is the 5800 with HDMI, if you'd even bothered to
google.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo <o6nfco$3vf$1...@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
<jmla...@invalid.invalid> escribió:

>Have a look at Panasonic

H'm. Some of their "smart" TVs won't display ITV HD. Panasonic blaming
the broadcaster, the broadcaster blaming Panasonic, no resolution,
customer caught in the middle.

Panasonic's answer? Slum it with the SD channel.

<http://eng.faq.panasonic.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/35124/~/why-am-i-
experiencing-picture-issues-on-itv-hd-channels%3F>

I wouldn't.

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo <58908877...@news.eternal-september.org>, AnthonyL
<nos...@please.invalid> escribió:

>These units at around £60 are fully reconditioned, a complete set of
>replacement capacitors for the suspect ones. Put MyStuff on it and
>apart from the lack of HD you still won't better it.

+1.

Retired mine when I got a tv with Freeview HD and a USB socket to plug a
hard disc in. That gives me all the same functionality as the Toppy.

>I've purchased two such units for friends/family. The TF5800 has some
>advantages in terms of memory usage and an easier to use remote but
>I'm happy with my TF5810 providing I prune the number of channels down
>to about 60.

Same here. Did they ever sort out the loss of the 7-day EPG?

[Jeff Layman]

On 03/02/17 18:48, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
> En el artículo <o6nfco$3vf$1...@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
> <jmla...@invalid.invalid> escribió:
>
>> Have a look at Panasonic
>
> H'm. Some of their "smart" TVs won't display ITV HD. Panasonic blaming
> the broadcaster, the broadcaster blaming Panasonic, no resolution,
> customer caught in the middle.
>
> Panasonic's answer? Slum it with the SD channel.
>
> <http://eng.faq.panasonic.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/35124/~/why-am-i-
> experiencing-picture-issues-on-itv-hd-channels%3F>
>
> I wouldn't.

If you follow the link you gave it directs you to
http://www.itv.com/viewerservices. That says:
"ITV is making changes to bring more relevant regional content to high
definition (HD) viewers in the above regions..."

The problem affects Sky and Freesat only in a couple of regions - Border
and West Country. It doesn't affect Freeview (and Virgin) HD.

Doesn't seem to me it's a Panasonic problem if ITV made the changes, and
it only affects a couple of regions.

--

Jeff

[Paul Ratcliffe]

On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 14:55:03 +0100, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

>>However we got there, now we all know what 'CF' means for Humaxes.
>

> Only very old Humax PVRs :-)

They're not "very old". In any case, they're a lot younger than
you and considerably more useful.

[Tim+]

AnthonyL <nos...@please.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:45:07 +0000, T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Not sure this is the right place to ask but I've been tasked with
>> helping some technophobe inlaws into the PVR world.
>>
>> Now, I understand Humax gear is known to be fairly user friendly but
>> I'm not sure they are as reliable as I want to risk as a
>> recommendation (based on the one the Mrs had before I got her a
>> Topfield TF5800 like mine).
>>
>> So, can anyone offer any personal recommendation for some kit that is
>> 'not particularly difficult to use' (most people can get use to
>> anything in time), not overly expensive (comparatively) but is likely
>> to at least last a few years without breaking down please?
>>
>> It doesn't really matter how big (small) the HDD is or if it has
>> catchup (although that would be nice) or even HD, as long as it works
>> and is reliable.

>>
>> I would / might look for another second hand Toppy but I think HDMI
>> would be more convenient.
>>
>

> The TF5810 is HDMI.
>
> There's a 2nd hand unit being prepared as I write:
>
> http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=270615&sid=95893af26beca74825adf2e0abbbaf16#270615

>
> These units at around ｣60 are fully reconditioned, a complete set of
> replacement capacitors for the suspect ones. Put MyStuff on it and
> apart from the lack of HD you still won't better it.
>

> I've purchased two such units for friends/family. The TF5800 has some
> advantages in terms of memory usage and an easier to use remote but
> I'm happy with my TF5810 providing I prune the number of channels down
> to about 60.
>

Utterly insane to buy something without HD capacity now. You might as well
suggest a 405 line telly.

[alan_m]

On 02/02/2017 23:20, T i m wrote:

> We all know there are good and bad products out there as sometimes
> manufactures get it right (I would say that fits the Topfield TF5800,
> excluding the bad-cap issue)

Really? - Topfield deserted its UK customers a decade ago after
releasing some dodgy software for the box. The TF5800 would have been
in landfill a long time ago if it wasn't for a few customers producing
the large number of bug fixes or performance enhancement patches.
Topfield didn't provide a solution for the split Network Information
Table problem which would have made all the boxes somewhat useless - a
customer wrote the software patch to fix it (which was adopted by the UK
distributor). Other customers produced an alternative GUI/image which
added many features that should have been present on a PVR.

The capacitor issue could have meant for many users the box failing
after 3 years usage. Again, it was users who identified the problem and
the solution for a widely adopted DIY repair or for a couple of UK
customers to provide a affordable repair service.

The manufacturer did NOT produce a good box. It was a few customers that
made a fairly mundane box into something different!

If you found the Toppy forum, replaced the PSU capacitors and installed
the alternative customer supplied software the Toppy could be described
as a good box.


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[alan_m]

And much the same as the user written software for the Enigma 2 boxes/PVRs.

http://www.openvix.co.uk/index.php/openvix-features-2/

[alan_m]

On 30/01/2017 21:48, T i m wrote:

>
> I wonder if you could find 100 'ordinary users' and got them to help
> design the UI on such things, how much different they might be from some
> of the offerings available today?
>

Probably the last thing you want is a UI designed by a committee.

[T i m]

On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 00:03:03 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

<snip>

>> So, this CF sounds like it adds good stuff like 'MyStuff' and the
>> other 'essential' TAPS do for the Toppy?
>>
>
>And much the same as the user written software for the Enigma 2 boxes/PVRs.
>
>http://www.openvix.co.uk/index.php/openvix-features-2/

I think it's good when interested / able folk create projects like
this, and OpenWRT etc, especially if it makes kit work better.

Even better when stuff would otherwise be obsolete or unsupported.

Just an observation as a relative noob to this (Sat / Freeview) world,
even when you go to the 'About' tab on the link you offered above it
doesn't really tell *me* what it's actually talking about (outside of
it being an OS project for something).

I mean, I'm guessing the 'VU+ Duo' is a STB of some sort and if it is,
why didn't they say so or include a picture of it in the text?

On an about page, should I then have to Google to find out what its
actually about?

I only mention this because I find it fairly often, when the authors
of the site are so into their project they forget to make it clear to
those who may have no background on that subject what it's actually
all about?

Similarly, if you go here:

http://www.toppy.org.uk/index.php

It doesn't explain what a 'Topfield PVR' is?

It would have been quite easy to have said ... "If you’re the owner of
a Topfield TF5800 or TF5810 Freeview TV hard drive recorder ..."?

Exactly the same thing here ...

https://openwrt.org/

"What is OpenWrt?

OpenWrt is described as a Linux distribution for embedded devices.

Instead of trying to create a single, static firmware, OpenWrt
provides a fully writable filesystem with package management. This
frees you from the application selection and configuration provided by
the vendor and allows you to customize the device through the use of
packages to suit any application. For developer, OpenWrt is the
framework to build an application without having to build a complete
firmware around it; for users this means the ability for full
customization, to use the device in ways never envisioned."

WTF? No mention of networking or routers so does that mean it can also
be used on other devices where Linux is 'embedded', like TV's (and if
so, to what end)?

In contrast:

http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/index

"DD-WRT is a Linux based alternative OpenSource firmware suitable for
a great variety of WLAN routers and embedded systems. The main
emphasis lies on providing the easiest possible handling while at the
same time supporting a great number of functionalities within the
framework of the respective hardware platform used."

At least they give you a bit of a understanding of what it's all to do
with here:

http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato


And again here: ;-(

https://www.linuxmint.com/about.php

"The purpose of Linux Mint is to produce a modern, elegant and
comfortable operating system which is both powerful and easy to use."

What is an operating system? What is it similar to, what does it work
on? And this is a Linux distro trying to attract noobs?

https://www.ubuntu.com/

"Managed live kernel patching without reboots" ... ???

(and that isn't a dig as Linux as the Windows sites aren't much better
from the same POV, just that most people know what Windows is, even if
they don't know it's an OS etc).


Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:57:28 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 02/02/2017 23:20, T i m wrote:
>
>> We all know there are good and bad products out there as sometimes
>> manufactures get it right (I would say that fits the Topfield TF5800,
>> excluding the bad-cap issue)
>
>Really? - Topfield deserted its UK customers a decade ago after
>releasing some dodgy software for the box. The TF5800 would have been
>in landfill a long time ago if it wasn't for a few customers producing
>the large number of bug fixes or performance enhancement patches.

Possibly. But the thing is they *can* be made useable, unlike the
PVR-9150T I have sitting here?

>Topfield didn't provide a solution for the split Network Information
>Table problem which would have made all the boxes somewhat useless - a
>customer wrote the software patch to fix it (which was adopted by the UK
>distributor). Other customers produced an alternative GUI/image which
>added many features that should have been present on a PVR.

Yup, ignoring the customer written solutions (something the TAPs were
designed for by Topfield), customer feedback is often a route to bug
exposure and fixes.

>
>The capacitor issue could have meant for many users the box failing
>after 3 years usage.

Well, it did mean such, but there was a *formal* service offered to
replace the PSU's and other people offering the service if required.
No such solution to fix the PVR-9150T *anywhere*. ;-(

>Again, it was users who identified the problem and
>the solution for a widely adopted DIY repair or for a couple of UK
>customers to provide a affordable repair service.

Users and the supplier (I had one done).

>
>The manufacturer did NOT produce a good box.

The manufacturers made a basically good box but were unfortunate to
(along with thousands of others) to use some bad components. Had the
boxes not been fundamentally sound I don't think there would be as
many still out there running after all this time as there are.

> It was a few customers that
>made a fairly mundane box into something different!

Customers and nerds, yes, as is often the case. ;-)

>
>If you found the Toppy forum, replaced the PSU capacitors and installed
>the alternative customer supplied software the Toppy could be described
>as a good box.

And that was part of what Toppy ownership was all about. The idea that
one could install modules that would allow the box to be / do
something different. That wasn't the case with nearly any other box
(certainly as release date) at the time.

It was like buying a straight 'use it as it comes' toy (Humax and most
others?) or a toy that came with the option of 'hop-up's' (Topfield).

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your basic comments, especially as
they might apply to someone buying said PVR's as an 'appliance'. ;-)

It's a bit like Dyson vacuum cleaners. They are basically sound (all
be it expensive etc) but whilst they can break / fail easily, they can
also repaired easily (they are designed to be taken to bits and parts
are readily available etc).

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 00:20:10 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 30/01/2017 21:48, T i m wrote:
>
>>
>> I wonder if you could find 100 'ordinary users' and got them to help
>> design the UI on such things, how much different they might be from some
>> of the offerings available today?
>>
>
>Probably the last thing you want is a UI designed by a committee.

Agreed, 'help' ... the input would come from the committee but the
actual design would come from someone who can implement the wheat and
ignore the chaff. ;-)

The point was if I asked you or most of the people here what features
they would call 'must have', those they would like and things they
didn't want (or want it to do), I bet the list would be a pretty good
starting point?

Like, who would *want* the PVR to automatically switch over to a
channel you had programmed to record when you were watching something
else?

Who would want it to disconnect the RF loopthrough when the box was
turned off 'by default'?

Who would want moving though the menu to be 'slow'?

Cheers, T i m

[alan_m]

On 30/01/2017 23:19, Roderick Stewart wrote:

> and if you
> can't be bothered to do that there's a pair of buttons to skip forward
> 60 seconds or back 10 seconds during playback.

Don't all PVRs have this facility?

On my current PVR (Extrend ET10000) running OpenVix 3 remote buttons can
be assigned for jump forward for a user configured time and another 3
for jump back.

[T i m]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:24:33 -0000 (UTC), Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com>
wrote:

<snip>

>
>Utterly insane to buy something without HD capacity now.

I wouldn't say it was completely insane (although it makes sense etc)
because some of us don't have TV's that really warrant HD? Our 'main'
TV is only 23" and I'm really not sure I would notice the difference
and even less sure it would improve out enjoyment of the content (as
with the 3D thread)?

> You might as well
>suggest a 405 line telly.

No, I would think an insane thing to do would be to buy something that
wasn't DVB-T2 ready.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 11:59:50 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 30/01/2017 23:19, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>
>> and if you
>> can't be bothered to do that there's a pair of buttons to skip forward
>> 60 seconds or back 10 seconds during playback.
>
>Don't all PVRs have this facility?

I don't think my Toppy does but there may well be a setting or Tap
that would supply it. ATM I just FF though them but it can be a bit
hit and miss. Still faster than sitting though them though. ;-)

>
>On my current PVR (Extrend ET10000) running OpenVix 3 remote buttons can
>be assigned for jump forward for a user configured time and another 3
>for jump back.

I like the idea of that flexibility and especially if it can be
applied to a recent and fundamentally reliable platform.

Since buying the Toppy(s) and ignoring the temporary Humax that was
replaced with a Toppy when it went bad, we have used our Toppys as
just tools and I've not really taken any interest in anything else.
It's only the need to find something for the in-laws and the advent of
going over to DVB-T2 (that I guess will really render the Toppy 5800's
obsolete?) that has awoken my interest in it all.

Cheers, T i m

[AnthonyL]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 11:31:37 +0000, T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

>
>I only mention this because I find it fairly often, when the authors
>of the site are so into their project they forget to make it clear to
>those who may have no background on that subject what it's actually
>all about?
>
>Similarly, if you go here:
>
>http://www.toppy.org.uk/index.php
>
>It doesn't explain what a 'Topfield PVR' is?
>
>It would have been quite easy to have said ... "If you’re the owner of
>a Topfield TF5800 or TF5810 Freeview TV hard drive recorder ..."?
>

To be fair that site is a support/forum site for folk who've mostly
already got a Topfield and not a site for promoting/selling Topfields.

Though if you click on the link underlying PVR on the Welcome:

Welcome

If you’re the owner of a Topfield TF5800 or TF5810 **PVR**, or
thinking about buying one, this site should provide you with just
about all the information you need.

You get:


Personal Video Recorder. A unit that records TV programmes onto a hard
disk, and usually offers a range of other features, such as the
ability to schedule recordings from a on-screen guide, or to
automatically record all the episodes of a particular series.


--
AnthonyL

[AnthonyL]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:57:28 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>

>The manufacturer did NOT produce a good box. It was a few customers that
>made a fairly mundane box into something different!

Well they certainly got caught out with some crappy capacitors, though
they weren't the only ones at the time IIRC.

>
>If you found the Toppy forum, replaced the PSU capacitors and installed
>the alternative customer supplied software the Toppy could be described
>as a good box.
>

Up until the advent of HD it is better than a good box. And excellent
hardware support from the guy on the forum at very reasonable prices.

Plus the MyStuff software has had quite a few upgrades.

The system will only lie down and die as demands for HD increase which
is very sad.


--
AnthonyL

[AnthonyL]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 18:43:16 +0000, Mike Tomlinson <mi...@jasper.org.uk>
wrote:

>
>>D i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>> I would / might look for another second hand Toppy but I think HDMI
>>> would be more convenient.
>
>The Topfield 5810 is the 5800 with HDMI, if you'd even bothered to
>google.
>

Or read my earlier post.

--
AnthonyL

[AnthonyL]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 12:17:22 +0000, T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

>On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 11:59:50 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>On 30/01/2017 23:19, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>
>>> and if you
>>> can't be bothered to do that there's a pair of buttons to skip forward
>>> 60 seconds or back 10 seconds during playback.
>>
>>Don't all PVRs have this facility?
>
>I don't think my Toppy does but there may well be a setting or Tap
>that would supply it. ATM I just FF though them but it can be a bit
>hit and miss. Still faster than sitting though them though. ;-)
>>

Certainly with MyStuff the coloured buttons can be configured but
default to +2, +1, +30s, -10s (or similar)

If you've not updated the firmware and using MyStuff you're making
life difficult.

--
AnthonyL

[AnthonyL]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:24:33 -0000 (UTC), Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com>
wrote:

The OP (read the beginning of this post) didn't seem overly fussed and
certainly wouldn't by new/expensive. But fully recon at £50-£60 -
suits some including those that I have recommended them to.

--
AnthonyL

[tim...]

"T i m" <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote in message
news:eteb9cd2isc0lne3l...@4ax.com...

what wrong with your 9150,

mine's still working

(apart from the bugs that its always had that Hummy could never be bothered
to retro-fix)

tim

[alan_m]

On 04/02/2017 11:53, T i m wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 00:20:10 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 30/01/2017 21:48, T i m wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if you could find 100 'ordinary users' and got them to help
>>> design the UI on such things, how much different they might be from some
>>> of the offerings available today?
>>>
>>
>> Probably the last thing you want is a UI designed by a committee.
>
> Agreed, 'help' ... the input would come from the committee but the
> actual design would come from someone who can implement the wheat and
> ignore the chaff. ;-)
>
> The point was if I asked you or most of the people here what features
> they would call 'must have', those they would like and things they
> didn't want (or want it to do), I bet the list would be a pretty good
> starting point?

I think you will find that you will end up with thousands of features of
which some may be very obscure but the persons suggesting them think are
essential.

Some people just want their box to just work after unpacking, and
without having to resorting to the instruction manual. Others would want
many bells and whistles so that they can tinker.

The manufacturer wants as few features as possible to keep the
development time short and to reduce costs in after care support. The
more complex the box becomes the harder it is to test for all
combinations of user interactions.

And then you get the younger generation designer with perfect vision who
thinks that light grey or yellow text on a light blue background is a
great idea for menus.

If you want a box with hundreds of user selectable options buy something
like one of the Enigma 2 boxes and install an image such as OpenVix or
equivalent. These images(software) are written by enthusiast hobbyists
which can make the boxes (feature wise) far better than what is provided
by the main steam manufacturers.

Enigma 2 are Satellite/Terrestrial/Cable TV receivers with powerful PVR
capabilities from a dozen of manufactures at difference price points for
different specifications
http://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/
(Just a customer)
There can be a fairly steep learning curve with initially setting up
these boxes for but possibly easily achievable by anyone with a bit of
technical knowledge. Don't expect Interactive (Red Button) or catch up
TV on these boxes.

>
> Like, who would *want* the PVR to automatically switch over to a
> channel you had programmed to record when you were watching something
> else?
>

If someone has set the box to record then the box must obtain a tuner to
meet this requirement. This often means changing channels to free up the
tuner. Any other behaviour may require the user to set up a preference.
And then you will get the complaints that "my box didn't record
anything" or "I was watching something and just at the critical moment a
menu appeared...." etc.

Perhaps if an individual user wants this behaviour to become a rarity
they should consider a better specified machine, perhaps one with 4 tuners?

> Who would want it to disconnect the RF loopthrough when the box was
> turned off 'by default'?

Loop through requires a x2 amplifier to maintain the signal level with a
75 ohm source into a 75 ohm load. You may WISH for loop through to
continue to work without power but the electronics without a power
supply may not be able to oblige!

>
> Who would want moving though the menu to be 'slow'?
>

Not me
The worst box for this that I've owned was a Sony Bluray Player where
they had coded the UI in Java. It worked as through the if the
processor had been clocked with 50Hz mains. I could go and make a cup of
tea between remote button presses :) Realistically, it took around 2
minutes from switch on to produce the first menu on the TV screen.

[alan_m]

On 04/02/2017 12:17, T i m wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 11:59:50 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 30/01/2017 23:19, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>
>>> and if you
>>> can't be bothered to do that there's a pair of buttons to skip forward
>>> 60 seconds or back 10 seconds during playback.
>>
>> Don't all PVRs have this facility?
>
> I don't think my Toppy does but there may well be a setting or Tap
> that would supply it.

The Toppy has this with either the Quick Jump or the Mystuff TAPs. Both
had configurable jump forward/back times. Natively, the Toppy had the
normal fast forward/back and another feature where you could select what
percentage through the recording to go to

>>
>> On my current PVR (Extrend ET10000) running OpenVix 3 remote buttons can
>> be assigned for jump forward for a user configured time and another 3
>> for jump back.
>
> I like the idea of that flexibility and especially if it can be
> applied to a recent and fundamentally reliable platform.
>
> Since buying the Toppy(s) and ignoring the temporary Humax that was
> replaced with a Toppy when it went bad, we have used our Toppys as
> just tools and I've not really taken any interest in anything else.
> It's only the need to find something for the in-laws and the advent of
> going over to DVB-T2 (that I guess will really render the Toppy 5800's
> obsolete?) that has awoken my interest in it all.

I wouldn't recommend the box I now have for a techniphobe or for someone
who doesn't want to put some effort into setting it up.
The Toppy forum thread for these alternatives is

http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20627

which details both the good and bad points. Warning, the thread is
around 35 pages long. The thread started a couple of years back and
things have moved on since and the later posts reflect this.

If you don't want the hassle on ongoing support you need to buy a
mainstream box. A mainstream box usually means no modifications by
third parties to enhance capabilities.

[alan_m]

On 04/02/2017 12:01, T i m wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:24:33 -0000 (UTC), Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> Utterly insane to buy something without HD capacity now.
>
> I wouldn't say it was completely insane (although it makes sense etc)
> because some of us don't have TV's that really warrant HD? Our 'main'
> TV is only 23" and I'm really not sure I would notice the difference
> and even less sure it would improve out enjoyment of the content (as
> with the 3D thread)?
>

For some SD channels you now need a T2 tuner (HD).

[alan_m]

On 01/02/2017 11:22, T i m wrote:
> BT YouView+

Manufactured by Humax and Huawei to the YouView specification.

[alan_m]

On 01/02/2017 11:22, T i m wrote:

>

> Anyone here got / tried one and if so, what do you think please?

Toppy users have tried them
http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=259627#259627

[alan_m]

On 01/02/2017 19:47, Chris Hogg wrote:

> I'm sure a year or two back I saw PVRs that had expansion slots (like
> a computer) that would take individual tuner cards, up to say six
> cards, so six tuners.

Many Enigma 2 boxes have up to 4 plug in tuner slots where you can mix
tuner modules (satellite or terestrial/cable), Some of the modules may
be twin tuners in themselves. The boxes are also able to interface with
USB tuner dongles and some of the boxes have 3 USB interfaces. 4K boxes
are now entering the market place.

[Tim+]

T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

Well that was my point really. More channels are moving to T2 and not being
mirrored in SD so if you can't view HD, your choice of quality viewing will
deteriorate.

[T i m]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 13:05:35 GMT, nos...@please.invalid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 11:31:37 +0000, T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>I only mention this because I find it fairly often, when the authors
>>of the site are so into their project they forget to make it clear to
>>those who may have no background on that subject what it's actually
>>all about?
>>
>>Similarly, if you go here:
>>
>>http://www.toppy.org.uk/index.php
>>
>>It doesn't explain what a 'Topfield PVR' is?
>>
>>It would have been quite easy to have said ... "If you’re the owner of
>>a Topfield TF5800 or TF5810 Freeview TV hard drive recorder ..."?
>>
>
>To be fair that site is a support/forum site for folk who've mostly
>already got a Topfield and not a site for promoting/selling Topfields.

Agreed, but there is no reason the home page can't give the casual
browser a good insight as to what the site is about is there?

>
>Though if you click on the link underlying PVR on the Welcome:
>
>Welcome
>
>If you’re the owner of a Topfield TF5800 or TF5810 **PVR**, or
>thinking about buying one, this site should provide you with just
>about all the information you need.
>
>You get:
>
>
>Personal Video Recorder. A unit that records TV programmes onto a hard
>disk, and usually offers a range of other features, such as the
>ability to schedule recordings from a on-screen guide, or to
>automatically record all the episodes of a particular series.

Again, I'm sure if you click about on most of the sites I have
mentioned (and the millions I haven't) you will eventually get to the
bigger picture but why should you have to? It would be like a school
printing a 'Fete on now sign' on a bit of A4 and just pinning it to
the front gates. I would think that any good site (selling stuff or
otherwise) would want to make it as clear as possible exactly what
it's all about and to pretty well anyone?

It's like this site:

http://www.nemcon.nl/blog2/

Someone suggested that I could use a 'RF Link' with my Raspberry Pi
running Domoticz (and everyone knows what that is right?) home
automation software to interface a current monitoring module. Googling
to 'RF Link' took me to the link above but gave me no real idea what
it actually was? Was it hardware (it mentions new firmware) but what
hardware, what did I need to buy, how does it connect etc etc.

Now, it's ok once you know what it's all about (as the guys making the
hardware and developing the firmware obviously do) but it's all very
much like those technical manuals that have been written by Engineers,
not ordinary people.

It's only when you click on:

http://www.nemcon.nl/blog2/wiring

Do you see the vaguest reference to an Arduino Mega?

Even if you stumble on the supplier of the hardware, again it's not
clear to me (before I got the bigger picture) what I actually needed
to be able to use this 'RF Link'.

https://www.nodo-shop.nl/en/

WT is a 'nodo'?

Now, I am running Domoticz on a Raspberry Pi3 so do I click on the
Raspberry Pi Kit link?

https://www.nodo-shop.nl/en/40-rflinkraspberry-pi-3-kit

Erm, no, I already have the Pi and as it happens, an Arduino Mega (we
use them on the 3D printers) so actually I just need the basic RF-Link
hardware:

https://www.nodo-shop.nl/en/rflink-gateway/148-rflink-gateway-components.html

Well, plus a suitable aerial etc. ;-)

Now I know this is all 'Enthusiasts' stuff (kit and web pages) but if
I was doing such I think I'd try to make it *easy* for anyone,
especially someone new to the whole game, what was required (so I'm
not saying one can't find the right info at some point, just that
often it could be made easier)?

It's like if you go into a plumbers you know you are going to be
presented with plumbing parts. But if you go into a hardware
supermarket you need to know where the plumbing section is and most
would prefer a clear sign than just wandering up and down till they
find it?

It's just like 'Norman doors'. ;-)

Just my 3dth of course, YMMV. ;-)

Cheers, T i m