Re: Transfer of recordings prior to Sky+ cancellation

[Indy Jess John]

On 21/04/2016 08:29, Charlie+ wrote:
> I assume there is no other way to transfer recordings from a Sky+ box
> than play in realtime with a valid card and re-record prior to
> cancellation over SD AV cable.
> So Im gritting my teeth to do some of that!
> Are there any PVR boxes that will make recordings in SD in standard (ie
> transferrable) formats without any encryption, I know in HD this is
> ruled out in the HDMI hardware for copyright reasons but it should be
> very possible in SD. Anyone got or can recommend a PVR that can do
> this?? Thanks C+

If you can lay hands on an old analogue PVR, they would record without
encryption. I use a Funai N8182DB for that purpose, one like
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Funai-T3B-N8182DB-DVD-Recorder-VCR-Combi-with-250GB-HDD-/331626398722
Any VCR will be similarly useful.

I suspect that most of the more recent digital PVRs will be programmed
to retain the encryption, but you might be lucky and find someone here
who can tell you if any of them don't.

Jim

[Brian Mc]

Charlie+ <cha...@xxx.net> wrote:
: I assume there is no other way to transfer recordings from a Sky+ box
: than play in realtime with a valid card and re-record prior to
: cancellation over SD AV cable.

For non-encrypted Sky+ recordings (BBC, ITV etc.) there is software which will
extract the digital files from the Sky+ PVR and convert them directly to
normal MPEG formats - with no loss of resolution

http://www.skycopyplus.co.uk/extract.php

You do have to be comfortable with opening the Sky+ PVR and connecting the
(standard SATA) HDD to a PC to do this - but there are instructions - with
photos - available using Google

Otherwise the only way (especially with encrypted content) is to playback
to SD RGB and then re-record on to PC using a capture card or a DVD recorder

: Are there any PVR boxes that will make recordings in SD in standard (ie

: transferrable) formats without any encryption,

Basically no I think! Even FTA PVRs (Freesat and Freeview) incorporate some
obscuration of (and inclusion of metatdata in) their recorded files to
make this difficult!

This is part of the standard for Freeview badging and I presume it applies
to Freesat as well.

[Bill Wright]

On 21/04/2016 08:29, Charlie+ wrote:

> Are there any PVR boxes that will make recordings in SD in standard (ie

> transferrable) formats without any encryption, I know in HD this is
> ruled out in the HDMI hardware for copyright reasons but it should be
> very possible in SD. Anyone got or can recommend a PVR that can do
> this?? Thanks C+

Some HDMI splitter boxes appear to defeat the HDMI content protection.

Bill

[Brian Mc]

Bill Wright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote:
: Some HDMI splitter boxes appear to defeat the HDMI content protection.

Does this help in this case? I have yet see a PVR with any ability to digitally
record from an HDMI input (presumably as it IS so often copy protected!)

[Bill Wright]

Slight snag then.

Bill

[Angus Robertson - Magenta Systems Ltd]

> I assume there is no other way to transfer recordings from a Sky+
> box than play in realtime with a valid card and re-record prior to
> cancellation over SD AV cable.

There is a little HDMI-Cloner Box that will capture HDMI HD output to a
USB flash drive:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HDML-Cloner-need-Capture-streaming-videos-Black
/dp/B00TF9MCXU?ie=UTF8&dpID=41fPGN4DDML&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160
%2C160_&refRID=0RED7D5VVZRQC8BZ372N&ref_=pd_sim_sbs_23_1

Beware this one comes from China so delivery is slow, also the software
is a little primitive and you may end up with multiple files per
programme. But a colleague bought one and it does work.

It will be slow process though. HD takes a lot of processing power and
disk space.

Angus

[Norman Rowling]

On 21/04/2016 08:29, Charlie+ wrote:

> I assume there is no other way to transfer recordings from a Sky+ box
> than play in realtime with a valid card and re-record prior to
> cancellation over SD AV cable.

> So Im gritting my teeth to do some of that!

> Are there any PVR boxes that will make recordings in SD in standard (ie
> transferrable) formats without any encryption, I know in HD this is
> ruled out in the HDMI hardware for copyright reasons but it should be
> very possible in SD. Anyone got or can recommend a PVR that can do
> this?? Thanks C+
>

Just get an Amazon Firestick and install Kodi on it.

[alan_m]

On 22/04/2016 01:46, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:


>
> Yet there are no recorders with HDMI input.
>

Extrend ET10000

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[Brian Mc]

Wolfgang Schwanke <s...@sig.nature> wrote:
: record to hard disk and later burn DVDs from that. Make sure the output
: of the Sky box is not macrovision encoded, otherwhise the recorder will
: likely block it.

Only PPV output of any SKy box is Copy Protected - not regular Movies or
Sports.

[Brian Mc]

Wolfgang Schwanke <s...@sig.nature> wrote:
: > Some HDMI splitter boxes appear to defeat the HDMI content protection.

: Yet there are no recorders with HDMI input.

You are hardly going to find any mainstream manufacturer supporting
or encouraging removal of copy protection by providing HDMI inputs!

[Michael Chare]

I suspect all the Linux boxes will do this, including HD. I am not sure
what happens if you record a Sky encrypted channel.

See www.world-of-satellite.co.uk and
www.world-of-satellite.com



--
Michael Chare

--
Michael Chare

[Brian Mc]

Michael Chare <mUNDERS...@charedo.torg.uk> wrote:

: I suspect all the Linux boxes will do this, including HD. I am not sure

: what happens if you record a Sky encrypted channel.

I am unsure what you mean - SKY programmes are stored "as transmitted" on the
internal HDD - that is digitally encryted except for the FTA channels
(BBC, ITV etc)

BUT, there is no encryption on the composite or RGB outputs (except for PPV
events), you can record from these as you wish - this needs to be done, of
course, BEFORE the Sky subscription ends (or Sky+ will no longer decode the
HDD files)

[R. Mark Clayton]

Or to put it another way if you only have [encrypted] digital recordings off $ky then you are SOL.

[Brian Mc]

R. Mark Clayton <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
: Or to put it another way if you only have [encrypted] digital recordings

: off $ky then you are SOL.

Shame your S key is broken - or some people find it "amusing"

NO mainstream PVR manufacturer makes it easy to extract the digital data -
I think there is some industry agreement in force to prevent digital piracy.
Converting to analogue (at SD resolution) and then reencoding to a DVD
recorder - or similar - seems to be tolerated.

[Brian Mc]

Wolfgang Schwanke <s...@sig.nature> wrote:
: > You are hardly going to find any mainstream manufacturer supporting

: > or encouraging removal of copy protection by providing HDMI inputs!

: I know that but I dislike it. Why shouldn't consumers have the power to
: do with their equipment what they want to do. The fact that it's
: technically possible to patronise consumers doesn't make it OK.

I belive HDMI is licensed technology - which the users want to connect
things to their TV. I would bet the license limits it to playback only.

Why the manufacturers won't make the HDD FTA recorded files available
as a mountable filesystem must be a different copyright decision!

[Brian Mc]

Wolfgang Schwanke <s...@sig.nature> wrote:
: > because the maker could be held legally responsible for aiding
: > infringement of copyright.

: That was never an issue with analogue VCRs. It's the same thing, just
: with different technology.

But with analogue there was no HD content and the user had to re-digitise
their signal - with some quality loss.

I think that the copyright owners were VERY anxious about giving users
access to the professionally encoded (as broadcast or decoded from BluRay for
display) digital signal - hence HDCP etc.

It is HD content they are most worried about - but their counter-measures
seem to have prevented SD content extraction as well.

[Max Demian]

Media providers just do what they can when the new technology is
introduced. With old technology, like analogue records and tapes, and
rippable CDs, they just grin and bear it until they become obsolete.
When anything new comes along, like DVDs and HDMI, they have a way to
force specifications to limit what users can do.

It's the same with regionalisation of videos: tapes allowed
distribution to be controlled to some extent by the difference
between PAL and NTSC. When DVDs came in they foisted region codes on
us, hampering importation of videos from abroad, meaning the video
you want could be more expensive or unavailable.

--
Max Demian

[NY]

"Brian Mc" <b...@somewhere.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:nfknvl$1ihi$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

I've found that off-air recordings made by Freeview on DVB-T and DVB-T2
don't seem to be encrypted: I can edit and copy them from the PC which
recorded them, and play them in any software (VLC, VideoRedo, Windows Media
Centre and Player). When I upgraded my DVB-T USB device to DVB-T2 I was
expecting to find that DVB-T2 recordings would have more restrictions than
DVB-T recordings - but no.

[Brian Mc]

NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
: I've found that off-air recordings made by Freeview on DVB-T and DVB-T2

: don't seem to be encrypted: I can edit and copy them from the PC which
: recorded them, and play them in any software (VLC, VideoRedo, Windows Media
: Centre and Player).

I guess that this is the easiest way to get FTA digital recordings. PVRs
obviously make similar recordings on their internal HDD but none that I know of
makes it easy to extract these - except by connecting the internal HDD
to a PC!!

[Roderick Stewart]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 11:19:14 +0100, Max Demian
<max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>Media providers just do what they can when the new technology is
>introduced. With old technology, like analogue records and tapes, and
>rippable CDs, they just grin and bear it until they become obsolete.
>When anything new comes along, like DVDs and HDMI, they have a way to
>force specifications to limit what users can do.
>
>It's the same with regionalisation of videos: tapes allowed
>distribution to be controlled to some extent by the difference
>between PAL and NTSC. When DVDs came in they foisted region codes on
>us, hampering importation of videos from abroad, meaning the video
>you want could be more expensive or unavailable.

Designing technology that is perfectly capable of doing something but
will refuse to do it has always seemed perverse to me, regardless of
the excuses given for doing it.

Until recently, the fundamental purpose of inventing new things was to
make things easier, not more difficult. I think the rot set in when it
became possible, largely through digital techniques, to take decisions
about the capabilities of new technology out of the hands of the
inventors and put it into the hands of others who could then apply
wanton restrictions to technology that had already been invented.

Rod.

[Ian Jackson]

In message <1f4shbtbnr7ipj5iu...@4ax.com>, Roderick
Stewart <rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> writes

Having worked all my life in the cable TV industry, I trend to agree.

Even in the days of analogue, it was a considerable technical
achievement to be able to deliver typically 48+ excellent-quality
channels to the many thousands of subscribers. The second phase of the
technology was to prevent them from being able to watch quite a lot of
the channels unless they paid for them - sometimes on a
programme-by-programme basis. I always felt a little guilty about this!
--
Ian

[Peter Duncanson]

What type of USB DVB-T2 device do you use?

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

[Vir Campestris]

On 25/04/2016 11:55, NY wrote:
>
> I've found that off-air recordings made by Freeview on DVB-T and DVB-T2
> don't seem to be encrypted: I can edit and copy them from the PC which
> recorded them, and play them in any software (VLC, VideoRedo, Windows
> Media Centre and Player). When I upgraded my DVB-T USB device to DVB-T2
> I was expecting to find that DVB-T2 recordings would have more
> restrictions than DVB-T recordings - but no.

AIUI the recorder manufacturers are required to encrypt the recordings
as they are written to disc. Humax will decrypt SD recordings when
copied to a USB stick. HD recordings are written with a flag that tells
the recorder not to decrypt them when copied.

Andy

[Brian Mc]

Peter Duncanson <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
: What type of USB DVB-T2 device do you use?

I currently don't! For many years I used a Nebula DigiTV DVT-T system
which made excellent SD digital recordings from Freeview onto the PC HDD.
This fell into disrepair as the company seemed to cease maintaining it.

From a quick Google I see various DVB-T2 cards.

[Peter Duncanson]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:21:12 +0100, Charlie+ <cha...@xxx.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:57:52 +0100, Vir Campestris
><vir.cam...@invalid.invalid> wrote as underneath :
>
>snip

>>AIUI the recorder manufacturers are required to encrypt the recordings
>>as they are written to disc. Humax will decrypt SD recordings when
>>copied to a USB stick. HD recordings are written with a flag that tells
>>the recorder not to decrypt them when copied. Andy
>

>Andy really? Which model Humax PVR will un-encode its recorded files and
>transfer them to SD unencrypted playable files through a USB port?

Probably all of them.

I have a Humax HDR-FOX T2 (Freeview) and a Humax FOXSAT-HDR (Freesat).
They will both copy SD recordings as unencrypted playable files to a USB
key/disk. Those can then be copied to a PC or other device to be played
and/or edited.

> I
>have heard of unofficial firmware messing which might allow this in .ts
>format - but is it really possible out of the box? - this is what I have
>been asking for in my OP, Im not particularly interested in transferring
>playable HD files. C+

The software available to make it possible to copy HD files in
unencrypted form to a USB storage device runs on a PC: "Foxy". Each
programme as held on the PVR's hard drive has at least three files: the
video/audio file, .ts, and two information files, .hmt and .nts.

The method it to get the .hmt file on to a PC and then user Foxy to
modify it prior to copying it back to the Humax box. I don't know the
underlying details, but there is something in the .hmt file that says
permit/ban decryption. Foxy sets that to "permit".

That applies only to recordings on a Humax Freeview PVR.

The quickest method of getting the .hmt file to a PC is to have the PVR
connected to your home network and to use FTP to transfer it to the PC
and back.

http://wiki.hummy.tv/wiki/FTP_Hi-Def_Content_Using_FOXY

[Peter Duncanson]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:03:33 +0000 (UTC), b...@somewhere.ac.uk (Brian Mc)
wrote:

Thanks. I used a Nebula device until it failed. That was before HD
transmissions started.

[Vir Campestris]

On 26/04/2016 08:21, Charlie+ wrote:
> Which model Humax PVR will un-encode its recorded files and
> transfer them to SD unencrypted playable files through a USB port?

Reading your sentence carefully...

My HDR Fox T2 will decrypt and copy SD recordings to a USB stick.

What it will not do is rescale HD recordings to SD, then copy them. So
if you want to copy them easily record them off an SD channel.

Andy